For The Lonely, Suffocated, or Overextended: How To Balance Your Relationships When Others Won't Change | Nedra Glover Tawwab

30:05Well, research says.

30:10Yeah, I'll have the misquoting some research in no time. Yeah. You know, I think our past is always with us, but it's not always helpful in our relationships, especially when we're trying to do a new thing. And that's why therapy or some sort of support can be really important when we notice this pattern of having the same sort of experience with people or being the same sort of way, always being guarded, always maybe giving too much to people, always allowing too much. These are indicators that there is something in your root system that needs to be pulled up. And when we continue to do that, we continue to be in these situations that we don't really want, that the end result is not good.

31:05And so it is to our benefit to figure out what stuff am I carrying along from relationship to relationship and how do I show up differently? And, you know, it goes back to that pushing through your discomfort when there is a person who is accustomed to not accepting help from other people. It's very hard for them to be in a situation where someone is saying like, hey, let me help you with that. Like as much as it would, you know, be helpful to receive it, you know, you really have to let your guard down. And oh, my gosh, that hurts my stomach to say, OK, but I have to say, OK, because my end goal is to not show up as this person who has it all together and this person who is needless.

31:57I want to do something different. So, yeah, the past is is super important. It's with us. And when we notice that it is weighing us down and getting in the way of what we want for our future sales, we have to address it and figure out some sort of way to release the release the hole that it has over us. so many of us struggle to boot up and maintain healthy habits and often chief among the habits that people are frustrated with themselves for not being able to keep up is exercise when you get busy exercise is often the first thing to go with tonal you can make sure you're checking workout off your to-do list with their smart and compact strength training system right in your home 24-7.

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36:19Right now, Skylight is offering our listeners$30 off their 15-inch calendars by going to myskylight.com slash happier. Go to myskylight.com slash happier for$30 off your 15-inch calendar. That's M-Y-S-K-Y-L-I-G-H-T dot com slash happier. You said something there about asking or receiving help, which I think a lot of people struggle with. But this is actually a big emphasis in the book, like not only receiving help, but asking for help. If you forget the second part, I'll remind you later. But like, why do so many of us struggle with either receiving or asking for help? And then like, how can we do it?

37:00Well, with the receiving, I think self-sufficiency is highly praised. It is highly praised in our society that you can achieve things on your own. We have this mentality that being self-made is better than anything. being a bootstrapper, being a person who, you know, when you when you look at, you know, I love to read the credits of things and just see all the names. You know, I've I've looked at, you know, album credits and it's like you did all this. There was no engineer like you have all these jobs. So, you know, sometimes we we we feel really good being able to say, like, I did this. and also it is it is is not a way that we operate in community it doesn't allow people to support us because we will always need other people I think we're of course at our neediest you know as small children but we get back to that space as we age and the better that we can adjust to needing people right now the better we'll be with it as we get older you know you do see so many people like fighting.

38:13Like, no, I don't need help with that. But you're struggling. And I see it. I've been that person. You know, sometimes when I walk into my office, I have way too many bags. And someone will say to me, do you need help? And in the past, no, no, no, no, no. And things are falling out of the bags. It's like, it's apparent I need help. That's why they're asking. And so now, one of the things I do now, if people offer something like, hey, can I bring anything, even if I don't need it, grab napkins. You know, I'd rather have an overabundance of napkins than to always tell people, no, no, no, no. Because what happens is we are training people not to help us.

38:52And so over time, they stop asking. They don't even ask if you need anything because they start to understand you've got it. You're not a person that they need to worry about. And so this idea that we can figure it out on our own or we're doing things all by ourselves, it's impossible. Like there are so many, even us talking right now, there are so many things that other people created, other people had their hand in to bring this conversation together. Like I did not make the computer, right? Like we have so many people to even include in this and we have to be able to recognize that, wait, wait a minute.

39:35I am a great and wonderful person. And also I cannot do all of these things by myself. So that is the receiving of it. The asking, oh my gosh, the depletion of a strong person when they are put in a position to ask. I've known several people who have broken an ankle or arm or something because they're doing something in some sort of way where they needed support, like standing on a table, standing on a stool, and they might live with a person or there may be someone on hand they could call, but it's like, nope, I need to figure this out. I shouldn't ask this person to come and help me. I should be able to do this.

40:18And it's like, you know, that ladder, there is a thing on the side that says that someone should hold on to it while the other person is climbing up. So I don't think that's there for no reason, right? So we have to think about like some of these things that we're doing as an individual, they're really meant to be done with others. And so we have to pull people in. That's how people feel a part of our village by us being vulnerable enough to say, hey, I need help or here's what I need help with. And I think this whole thing around like, I don't want to ask, it's really, you know, it's really sad because sometimes it's us making excuses for why people can't help.

41:05We're looking at their life and we're saying, oh my gosh, well, Dan is busy. He's not available to help me with this thing because he has X, Y, and Z. And meanwhile, you have enough free time to watch a whole series in a day. So this idea that people are unavailable, I was just speaking with someone who who was telling me how, well, I don't want to ask them this thing because in the future, I want to ask them this other thing. And I said, you don't think they can help you twice? Like this idea that there's a maximum amount of times that they can help you in this lifetime. We have to allow people to be there for us because we all need it.

41:45So it's just like this circle of community and connection. When we ask, we receive, we ask, we receive. Now we don't need to overdo it. we don't need to always ask the same person. We don't need to always have the same ask, but we certainly need to be open to the idea that people can and will help us. And we have to be open to if we receive a no, that there's someone else we can go to because we have enough people. I think you have a two-step process for asking for help. Yes, yes. Be clear in your ask. Very often we'll stop asking people because we're not being clear about what the ask is. It's just like, I need help.

42:31Well, with what? What do you want them to do? If you want them to deliver well, we have to provide some clarity around what the ask is. I have an appointment at five o 'clock. Can you give me a call at 430 to make sure that I've stopped doing this other thing to be on my call at a certain time? Right. Like what is the ask? How detailed can you be with it? The other thing with, you know, asking people is to give them the opportunity to do it without your intervention. Know that they will not do it to your exact liking. They may do it better. Sometimes people have done things better. I've asked people and it kind of irritates me because I do want to hold on to my belief.

43:21No, they can't do it. And then they do it better than me. It's like, gosh, they've beat me at me-ing. It's like, I want it to be the person who did this thing well for myself. But sometimes people can surprise you. And we have to be patient with people in our ask. If we say, hey, I need help with and they don't deliver 100 % effort. You know, again, it's a conversation. It's not an opportunity for us to say, oh, see, I knew it. No one can help me. This is what happens when you ask people to do things. Well, you've asked the wrong person. You've asked the person who didn't have clear expectations in the beginning.

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46:12you've referenced yourself a couple of times in these in these answers where you talk about like your foibles um i'm just curious like you've you've done all these years of uh therapy meaning you've been a therapist for quite a while and you um have written these books like how good are you when the rubber hits the road of practicing what you preach? Oh, wow. I would say I'm pretty good now. You know, I think in the past this works, it feels so, I understand it so well because I've seen myself in it. So when I'm talking to a person who has, you know, maybe a boundary issue who has an issue with asking, like, I understand how hard it can be to ask.

47:04And sometimes that's really helpful to people because there is this connection or nobody understands how bad this feels. And it's like, I kind of do. I get it. And I think you can do it. I think you can do it because I've seen it be done. You know, you're not the only person to push past this desire to be seen as the only doer in your life, you know, you can do it because it has been done, not just with me, but with tons of other folks. I think so many of us have these, these things that we feel like, oh my gosh, I can't do it. But hearing the story of someone else doing it is like, okay, yeah, it's possible.

47:47You mentioned boundaries there. And I was just reflecting upon the fact that the first time you came on the show was to talk about your book, Set Boundaries, Find Freedom. Am I getting the title right? Set Boundaries, Find Peace and Freedom. Find Peace, yes. You will get freedom from the boundaries. Set Boundaries, Find Peace. And I'm just curious, like, we're here talking now about how to establish and maintain healthy relationships because it really is a non-negotiable when it comes to human flourishing. You have helped popularize the notion of setting boundaries in this era where, you know, therapy speak is being used and misused on social media.

48:35Do you worry that people are weaponizing the concept of boundary setting? There are so many different types of boundaries. Some boundaries are ending a relationship. Some boundaries are about being more clear in your communication. Some boundaries are taking a step back to observe your own behavior in a situation. So as humans, I do think we can weaponize anything, right? Like we can figure out a way to make it work for us, even if the situation is unhealthy. But at its core, I believe that boundaries are a healthy practice. something I talk about in the balancing act is too many boundaries can keep people away from you you know it can be something that people start to um abhor like you know I can't even be around this person because you can't do this you can't do that if you say this or you know like all these rules about yourself it does create some inflexibility so it is important to even consider How do your boundaries impact your relationships?

49:46If everybody is reporting the same experience with you, could it be helpful to maybe renegotiate your boundaries with yourself? Like, especially if you want to live in this world of connection, if you want to be in relationships with people, sometimes too high boundaries can be problematic. You know, there are some people where it's like, you can't do this, you can't do that. And it's, you know, it's really hard to be vulnerable and connect with that sort of person. So, you know, I do believe that that boundaries are very healthy, but I also think we have to reexamine them and revisit, you know, what we've been doing with our boundaries.

50:29There's another strategy in your book that I was a little humbled to see because it is not a problem I have as somebody whose tendencies run toward the selfish. But the strategy in question is stop over-considering others. Can you say more about that? Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. So you run towards like, I'm not going to think about them in this situation. I'm going to think about me. Yeah. I've had to really train myself to be less self-centered over time. And so this trap, which I can imagine, I know a lot of people who are people pleasers who fall into this trap a lot, but it's not one I fall into.

51:17In fact, I could do well to fall into it more often. The centering of others to the detriment of yourself is a big problem for some people when your needs aren't being met or even thought about in a relationship or you're not even bringing them up as a way to maybe keep the peace or keep the other person happy or even stay in the relationship. Over time, it does feel like you're in a one sided connection because they're connected, but you're not. And so that's why that that over considering people becomes problematic because it creates this this idea that you are needless. And that's not true.

52:02Right. It's just that the needs of the other person is always centered. It's always at the forefront what they want to eat, what they want to do, where they want to go. Like all of these things are maximum importance while, you know, you pretend or maybe it's not even important to you to have some ideas about what you want to see in a relationship. But it is important. It is important. And again, you know, I think it's something that can be corrected. Just like you said, you tend to lean toward, you know, maybe not thinking about other people and you have to take some effort to say, OK, what might they want?

52:46With someone who's over considering a person, it's really about like, what do I want in this situation? Aside from what they want, they're saying they want this. What do I actually want? What do I need to advocate for? which is interesting you know I think it's opposite ends of the spectrum and the healthiest you know place to be is maybe a little you know in the middle of you know their needs their needs are prioritized your needs are prioritized but we do want to recognize that relationships are two-way streets that is not just centering you it is centering the relationship not you or the other person.

53:27One of the things that's shining through in this discussion and in your work is that we can change. Growth is possible. You may have past traumas, you may have personal predilections and personality traits that seem hardwired, but through work, through therapy, through doing certain practices, you can have healthier behaviors and therefore healthier relationships. Yeah, we can change when we want to. And I think sometimes, unfortunately, we try to change other people because we want them to change and they may not want that. And so this is where you can gift them a book that talks to them about, you know, all these wonderful relationship things.

54:14But, you know, very often we're like, you know, I got I got to get this person a change. And, you know, people come to therapy or people talk to me and they're like, how do I get my so-and-so to do X, Y, and Z? And I'm like, you don't, you can't. And I would love to tell you that there is something you can get them to do, but it has to be some sort of intrinsic motivation. I think even when people are forced in scenarios where they have to change, that change will be temporary if they don't truly want it. And so they have to be able to buy into it. You can change yourself, But this idea that we can make other people do these things is, you know, it's really hard.

54:57And, you know, I think the sooner that we accept what's within our control, the better our relationships will be. And the more we can show up and recognize a person's limitations and, you know, operate in the way that we can with people. Isn't there like a bank shot we can make here? Like in relationships, if we take it upon ourselves to change, not to meet their needs per se, but to meet our own needs and to be healthier and happier on our own side, isn't it possible that that can provoke change in the other? Absolutely. You know, I think some things can be contagious. They say that divorce is contagious.

55:38So when, you know, one person in the friend group gets a divorce and they start talking about, oh, I'm just sleeping so much better and blah, blah, blah. Other people are like, huh, divorce. You know, like it's this thing. I'm not saying that about divorce. I'm married. But, you know, it's this thing that does go around, you know, where, you know, if a friend gets a new car, it's like everybody gets a new car. So can kindness also be contagious? Can healthy boundaries also be contagious? Can asking for support also be contagious? I think so. If we can manifest and make all of these other things this whirlwind in our friend groups and in our communities, I think being a good steward of your lawn can also be contagious.

56:31I think there are some positive things that can also be contagious. I don't want to give contagion to all of the negative things in life. It's like, no, I think we can peer pressure people into being a little more joyful. so yeah I do think that when you make some shifts it shifts things in other people and sometimes when we make personal shifts it shifts our interpretation of other people I think that's the biggest impact it's like you know what this person used to really get on my nerves but since I've been meditating for 15 minutes in the morning they don't bother me as much if meditation is your thing.

57:12Or since I've been, you know, thinking about, you know, other people aren't responsible for my happiness, they don't get on my nerves as much. You know, so the shifts that you make, maybe it doesn't change the other person. It just changes the way that you manage them, you think about them, and the way that you can withstand some of the things that they aren't changing. One thing I've heard, and I can't remember where I've heard this, and it may not be true, is that if you do wish for some sort of behavior change on the part of your partner or a colleague, obviously we've established that going through the front door and trying to cajole them or force them or pressure them is unlikely to work.

57:53But one strategy that can work, and again, I'd be curious to hear if you think this is true, is positive reinforcement, like praising the behaviors you want to see to the point where they become natural on the part of the other person. Yes. And this is your podcast. So we're going to say it's true because you said it and you can just make anything true. Yeah, that's true. And I agree with it. So I can come up with some bullshit studies to cite if you want. Please cite some studies.

58:29Sometimes, you know, with reasonable people, I think that's a great strategy. I think there are some people in the world. I think we kind of operate from this perspective of, oh, people are reasonable and I'll try this thing and it'll work. And it does work with reasonable people. But there are some people, I don't know what a clinical term would be, but. Assholes. You said it, I didn't. It's your pie. This positive reinforcement is not going to work. It's just, you know, you can't positive reinforce the asshole out of someone. It's just going to be in there because that's what they're choosing to be or that's who they are.

59:11But for, you know, when we're in a situation with a reasonable person, yeah, when you're like, oh my gosh, thank you so much for these flowers. I love flowers. I know I didn't used to like them, but boy, oh boy, when you bring them now, I just, I take good care of them. Thank you so much for delighting my day. Yeah, that makes a person feel good? Like, ooh, I delighted someone. Oh, yes, you did. You know, so positive, positive reinforcement. Yeah, it does work in some instances. And we have to recognize when it's not working. And here we are overworking ourselves trying to get this person to change.

59:46And it's like, okay, they're not getting it. We have to notice that as well. I think it would be very helpful for us to, again, notice those limitations that this person cannot or is unwilling to recognize this thing and do something different in this situation. There are a couple of other things I want to get to before I let you go. One of them is this term that I find annoying because of its overuse, but I still think that what it's pointing to is really important, and that is authenticity. To you, what does authenticity mean and like how can we achieve it? Authenticity is being able to show parts of yourself to the world.

1:00:36Now, authenticity does need boundaries because we may not want to go to work that has, you know, a uniform and say, well, this is how I show up in the world. I'm being authentic. It's like, well, you're a postal worker. There is a uniform we have to wear. Right. So, so, you know, there are boundaries that we may need with our authenticity. But ultimately, it is when safe being able to show parts of ourselves to people. If we're never authentic, then that is probably a problem. We have to figure out which people in what situations we can be authentic. And we have to even do that with boundaries and be considerate of what the space will allow.

1:01:21I think in family relationships and relationships with our partners and friends is where that authenticity is really important. It helps us deeply connect with people. You know, there's nothing worse than being in a relationship with somebody and you don't really know anything about them or you don't know what they like or who they are. It's like, who have I been talking to? What is this person about? So for people to feel connected to you, they need to know who you are. And that's where that authenticity comes in. And that's why it's important. You have a whole appendix in the book about something that can really block healthy relationships, and that is technology.

1:02:08Why did you decide to include this whole appendix in the book? We believe that technology makes us more connected in some ways. Like we can email people, we can DM them, DM them. We are, you know, friends with thousands of people, and yet we have no one to call when we have a hard day. yet we have you know no solid connections in real life we don't know our neighbors names but we know the lives of all these parasocial relationships we've built with you know so-and-so celebrity online so technology is is good when used well we should be on social media if we want to we should figure out some ways to use technology to our advantage.

1:02:55But we should also notice when having a phone and browsing while we're in conversation with people is problematic. We should also notice when our kids are trying to get our attention, but we're so deep in our phones that we're not paying attention to them. We should also notice that we are the person who's sending the email at 11 p.m. during someone else's family time. You know, we have to be mindful of how to be connected and also when to disconnect with technology. So what are your recommendations for smart tech and social media use, you know, in the context of like, you know, living a healthy life?

1:03:41Well, I say humans over devices. So if we are with people, you know, putting them away, maybe not at home because we're always with people at our home. Right. But if we're in social social gatherings or if we're with friends, when we're at the dinner table, when a person is talking to us, putting the device away so we can give them eye contact and pay attention to what's happening. because we can't really multitask. Something is not being heard. Either it's the video or on our phone or the email we're not really paying attention to because we're listening to this other thing. But we need to figure out a way to be in connection with people, especially when they're in our presence.

1:04:27I think that's one healthy thing. I'm noticing that the overuse of technology is like zapping our attention span. We have I'm seeing more people now who can't watch a show for an hour. Right. Because there is this this distraction with I have to check my email. I have to be on this thing. I have to multitask while doing this thing. And so the idea of sitting still without the device is like, I can't even do it. Like, I have to be able to be accessible. So, you know, thinking of areas where you need to call back your attention, where you need to leave the phone out of the room. Is it disturbing your sleep?

1:05:12Is it disturbing your ability to read a book? Is it disturbing your ability to watch a show or do a puzzle or be engaged in whatever thing you want to be engaged in? What are the limitations that I need to set with this device? When we are using social media to connect with others, how are we pulling those connections offline? Are we just saying this is my social media friend or could this be your friend in real life? How do we even go deeper there? You know, there are there are ways to if you're in a Facebook group or if you're constantly commenting on someone's thing. Have you ever been to their event in person?

1:05:57Have you ever said, hey, I noticed you also live in the same city as me. Is it possible that we can go get coffee? because it's great to be in this, you know, this orbit of online experience. And sometimes we want to keep it there. But there are other times where we are without people in the real world because all of our people are in the digital world. So we have to pay attention to what's needed where. The other thing is, and lastly, you know, the biggest thing I think that I'm seeing is, I think that technology is so massive on top of what we already have to do as adults. And there are new expectations around this constant connection to all the things.

1:06:45I emailed you. I sent you a message here. Why didn't you respond? It was 7 p.m., but I sent it on this thing and you have this app. And it's like, oh, my gosh, can we just go back to answering machines? because the desire for people to immediately respond is increasing. It is our new expectation that people are constantly connected. And it's almost like people have to make some grand statement around like, hey, I'm not going to be available from five to seven. It has to be this grand thing because if not, it's almost considered rude. It's like I pinged you on the thing and you didn't respond within five minutes because we all know everybody has a phone.

1:07:33They're using the phone while watching TV, going to the bathroom, eating their food. Like, why aren't they paying attention to me? So it's this over attention that we now have to offer. And so figuring out what are my limitations with technology? What things do I need to put into play so that I have some separateness from it and I'm using it well for connection? Last question for me, just as an asterisk on that. I always end with two questions. But before I get to those two questions, I have one last question, which is I can imagine people listening to this conversation and some of them thinking, well, I'm lonely, actually.

1:08:12I don't I don't know anybody. And you referenced this a little bit earlier when you were talking about saying hi to people at yoga. But what what can we do if we don't feel like we have enough relationships? We have to go out and meet new people. And, you know, I think that is hard for some of us. You know, it goes back to that, you know, doing the thing that feels uncomfortable. It starts with saying hello and looking friendly. going back to technology for a moment if we go to the same you know coffee spot maybe a few times a week but every time you go your face is in your phone it's not giving the impression that you're open to connection and so you know if we want to meet people we have to think about the ways in which we're getting in the way am I quickly leaving my desk after work or am I sticking around and have a little bit of small talk.

1:09:12Even if I don't like small talk, small talk has a purpose. It takes you to the deeper talk, right? So if I want to meet new people, I have to be in scenarios where I'm meeting new people. Most cities, here's a good digital connection. Most cities, they have groups, they have, you know, connection points, whether it's a run club, a bike club, a skating club, like anything you could, you could sit with people and do puzzles. Like there are all sorts of things that we can connect around. How do I find these things and then meet these people in the real world? How do I take that group of 10 and discover, oh my gosh, there are two people there that I really get, you know, I get some positive feelings towards.

1:09:55How do I approach them about, okay, but let's go to dinner. Let's do this other thing. It's about meeting people and maintaining those relationships. Sometimes it's not, oh my gosh, I can't meet any new people. It's I don't know how to maintain relationships. 10 years ago, I had a best friend. We lost contact and I haven't talked to this person anymore. Well, in that situation, can you text that person today? Can you reconnect with people and maybe have a statement? Hey, we haven't talked in a year. We haven't talked in six months. I got really busy and things just fell by the wayside, but I would love to reconnect with you.

1:10:33So knowing how to not only meet people, but maintain those connections is important. Nedra, is there something you were hoping we would get to that we have not gotten to? I think we just got to it. I'm so happy you brought up loneliness. Okay, and that leads me to my final question, which is, can you please remind everybody, again, of the name of your new book, your prior books, where they can find you on social media, anything else you've got going on that we should know about? Yes, my new book is The Balancing Act. My older books is Set Boundaries, Find Peace and Drama Free. I am Nedra Tawwab on all socials.

1:11:14It's always such a pleasure to talk to you. I really appreciate your time. Congratulations again on your new book. Thank you. Thank you so much to everybody who works so hard to make this show. 10 % Happier is produced by Tara Anderson and Eleanor Vasily. Our recording and engineering is handled by the great folks over at Pod People. Lauren Smith is our managing producer. Marissa Schneiderman is our senior producer. DJ Kashmir is our executive producer. And Nick Thorburn of the band Islands wrote our theme. Also, one last thing before I let you go. Our Summer Sunday Live series is officially underway every Sunday at 4 Eastern.

1:11:50You can join the legendary meditation teacher Sharon Salzberg for a deep dive into the Buddha's Cookbook for Happiness, The Eightfold Path. You can catch up on replays if you've already missed a few of the sessions, and you can join the next live meditation and Q &A only on the 10 % with Dan Harris app. Go to danharris.com to start a free trial.

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