How To Stop Spinning Out With Bill Hader | Staff Picks

0:04It's the 10 % Happier Podcast. I'm Dan Harris.

0:19Have you ever had that experience where your brain just gets fixated on something and just starts spiraling out? You start imagining all the horrible things that are going to happen to you. This happens to me all the time. I suspect it happens to you all the time. So what do you do in those moments? Today, we're going to get advice from an unlikely source, one of our greatest living comedians, Bill Hader, who's hilarious and also quite self-aware and quite willing to talk about his own stuff. So before we hear from Bill, just a little context. Last month during our Get Fit Sanely series, we asked listeners to tell us about some of their favorite episodes from past iterations of Get Fit Sanely series that we've run over the years.

0:57We heard from lots of listeners, including Abby and Shannon. It was really cool. So this month, we actually wanted to ask members of the team at 10 % Happier to share a few of their favorite past episodes. And you will be hearing said episodes on Fridays throughout the month of July. So the way this is going to work is that after the break, we're going to hear from Hayden, who's a member of our team, about why he loved the Bill Hader episode that we ran a couple of years ago, specifically his favorite moment. So we'll hear from Hayden and then we'll hear the moment where Bill talks about what he does when his brain is spinning out.

1:33Before we go to break though, I just want to remind you that for this month, as well as during the month of August, we will be continuing to feature bespoke meditations for every Monday and Wednesday episode featuring a teacher of the month. This month, all of the meditations will be coming from the wonderful meditation teacher, Don Mauricio. To access those meditations, you can become a paid subscriber over at danharris.com. One other thing before the break. We're in the midst of a big summer merch sale, which ends on Monday. It's your last chance to grab up to 40 % off at the merch store while supplies last.

2:05The sale ends on July 14th, so don't sleep on it. Head on over to shop.danharris.com. Coming up, Hayden, the youngest member of the 10 % Happier team. Hey, it's Dan. I just want to tell you about something I'm really proud of, the new community we are building over on my new app, which is called 10 % with Dan Harris. Here's something I believe with no reservation. Taking care of your own mind is not selfish. It's actually essential if you want to show up for the world, if you want to deal with the various emergencies on the planet right now. There is, in fact, a geopolitical case for you to get your shit together.

2:41In other words, taking care of your own mind is good citizenship. I think about it like an upward spiral. You train your mind. That makes you happier and less reactive because you're steadier. That improves your relationships with everybody around you. And because relationships are crucial to human happiness, you get even happier. Then your relationships get even better and up you go. Our mission over at this new app is to guide you through this process with a growing library of meditations from world-class teachers like Seven A. Selassie and Joseph Goldstein and on and on. Also, add free access to our full podcast archive, exclusive live stream events where we guide meditations and take your questions.

3:20We do those every week and much more. Head on over to danharris.com. You can try it for two weeks free. And if you cannot afford a subscription, we'll give you one, no questions asked. We had a little pool party yesterday with some family friends. They were about, I would say, about 10 kids in the pool at the same time. And they were all playing with these great toys, many of which we got from our sponsor today, Wayfair, including an awesome floating basketball net that my son has been dunking on on the regular. There's also, I don't know how to describe it, it's this floating thing with holes in it and you can throw a football into it.

3:54And my son has been working on a spiral in the pool with his friends. Wayfair helps you create a home that stands up to real life with quality products, great value, and trusted reviews. Wayfair verified products are hand-vetted by product specialists using a 10-point quality inspection. Shop thousands of products across every style and budget, whether you're trying to refresh your space for fall or transform your space for Halloween. Use filters, customer photos, and reviews to find the right fit for your home. More than 20 million verified five-star reviews help shoppers buy with confidence, plus Wayfair rewards.

4:28Transform your space with pieces that hold up to real life. Join Wayfair Rewards today and get 5 % back on every purchase. Head to Wayfair.com or shop the Wayfair app for all things home. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R dot com. Wayfair. Every style, every home.

4:48My name is Hayden Broom, and I am the digital content manager here at 10 % Media. For my staff pick, I went with Bill Hader's episode from the Non-Negotiables series. Now, I'll be honest, I'm a huge Bill Hader fan. I'm a filmmaker myself, and Barry's one of my favorite shows of all time. So I'm a little bit biased here, but also, I think this is a truly fun episode, where Dan and Bill are having a great time, and they're laughing, and it's full of really, really great advice. The anecdote that really sticks with me is when Bill talks about spitting out about some event later on in the week, and his therapist has to go, Bill, it's Tuesday.

5:25I have these moments constantly. It's honestly a rather frequent occurrence that I'm sitting around, and my brain is like, I think you said a weird thing at that party last night, and I think everyone could tell you're losing your hair, and I gotta go to the store and buy eggs. And it's like, hey, whoa, whoa, whoa. It's 9.30 a.m. Let's dial it back. Relax, dude. And just doing that, acknowledging this, as Dan names it in the episode, this proponcia, it fixes it really fast. ironically I'm now anxious that I'm going too long with this but I'll just end by saying that it's great that towards the end of the episode Bill acknowledges that these non-negotiables are exactly what they are they are non-negotiables these are things we have to do for ourselves because we know for a fact that they work and in that vein I'll tell you that I am loathe to meditate I find it very boring but I do it anyway because I know that it immediately makes me feel better.

6:19And also I work for a meditation company. But anyway, I digress. Go listen to that episode. It's fantastic. Thank you so much to Hayden. All right. Let's hear the part of the interview where comedian and actor Bill Hader talks about what he does when his brain is in overdrive. Bill was on the show in January of 2024, and I asked him about what he considers his non-negotiables. it's funny so i found on my laptop an old document that i made in 2010 and it was essentially this like here's everything if you do this you always feel better and it is simple things like meditating exercise drink more water than coffee easy on the suites you know those things but also writing every day and watching something or reading something every day for me or some sort of creative work and then seeing hearing some piece of art whether it's a movie or a book or going to a museum or something just that is very inspiring but I always know I feel better when I meditate and when I'm working out and I'm watching what I'm eating.

7:33And then I would say, so that was done now 14 years ago. And every day I try to negotiate myself out of the negotiables. And it's like, I don't really need this. You know, every time I talk to a doctor, I'm like, but I can live on candy, right? People live on candy. You know, it's like, what's wrong with eating two pints of ice cream every day. That's not an issue, right? And he's like, that's a huge issue. You'll be very, that's not good at all. You know, during the pandemic, I got so anxious and went into such a hole that I didn't meditate. You know, I was so freaked out when I didn't really exercise.

8:23And then mentally, yeah, it made me, sent me into like a stupor, you know? And so that took a long time to kind of get out of. But I've noticed that when I do those things, when I take the time in the morning, especially to do those things, I just become much more open. I listen. I'm present. I had a therapist say, you write really negative narratives for the future. If I see we're in traffic and I see cop cars and an ambulance and a fire truck, I immediately think, oh my kids and their mom are just in a car accident and he's like that's a pretty dark narrative and i'm like have you seen my show uh he's like i think you need to work on those better narratives you know more positive narratives and i think meditation sleep it's easier to take it easy on myself when those things are present i don't know about anybody else but i'm not apologizing for it.

9:24I'm from Oklahoma, you know, so it's like, I'm going to go in a room and sit and close my eyes. Like you don't call it meditation. You're like, I'm thinking, you know, because you don't want to be judged or something. You know what I mean? I need to stretch. If I just said that to some of my friends back home, you know, they'd be like, I just, it's one of those things that you've learned that the hippies were right. And that sucks. You know, I'm 45 and you're like, Like, all those hippie dudes were right, and that blows. It's like, I should eat well, I should stretch, I should get out, play Ultimate Frisbee, meditate, be a vegetarian, and listen to jazz or whatever.

10:09I still can't get into the Grateful Dead, but jazz now, I'm like, this is good music. I'm getting old.

10:20so i don't know man but that sounds like the challenge for you is remembering or agreeing to actually do these no-brainers that we can all agree on yes i have to really make myself do it and in the minute i'm doing it it is an anticipatory anxiety thing it is that negative narrative if I do this I'll be late to this oh no no I gotta do this right now because if I don't take out the trash cans right now and clean my entire house right now you know and you're just it's like relax like you I know you had a panic attack on air I had a panic attack on air on Saturday Night Live I was doing a sketch as Julian Assange I was playing Julian Assange and I was exhausted and Jeff Bridges was hosting and I showed up to work that day and Seth Meyers was like, hey, Julian Assange just, they hacked.

11:18I forgot what it was. And he's like, so we're writing a cold open and you're Julian Assange. And I just went into a complete panic because I did it twice already and it took years off my life because, you know, to me it's just the live television aspect of it and the countdown and five, four, three, two, one. Now the whole nation is there. The red light goes on. And I'm doing an impression I'm not comfortable with. And I don't feel like I have it yet. And I'm like a perfectionist. So I'm like freaking out that the impression is not good. So yeah, I started to do it. It was the third week in a row where I had to do it.

11:59And I was exhausted. I was just drinking coffee all day and eating sugar. And I went on air. and suddenly it was like I started shaking. I had a wine glass and I just put the wine glass in front of my face because I was like abort, abort, abort. And my brain, that word was just going abort, get out, get out, get out. And the red light came on and I was going abort. Jen, our stage manager, was motioning for me. She was like, you put the wine glass down. Like we can't see her face. Put the wine glass down and I just kept it there. And then I kind of brought it down and then it would kind of creep back up and then I'd bring it down.

12:36And then I went off stage and I just went to my knees and just in a hallway and just like trying to breathe and the whole thing. And that's when I was like, there's something wrong. Because before that, it was just, oh, I worry a lot. You know? And that was like, oh, there's something very wrong here. And so that was when I started to look into like doing meditation and taking care of myself. because that live TV aspect was just too much. But now I look back at it and I'm like, oh yeah, before every show I would get tired and I would drink like three cups of coffee because I was exhausted. And then I go out there and I'm like, just zzzz.

13:25And then I don't know how you are, but people go, God, I can never tell. You seem so fine. And I'm like, I was dying inside. It was hard. I have so much empathy for that. I mean, as you know, I've had the exact same experience, although I was only imitating a news anchor version of myself. I watched yours, and I felt that that thing, I could tell you're trying to catch your breath, and that's how I felt. It was like, I can't catch my breath. I'm shaking. And then the terrifying thing is everybody's noticing. Yes. Yes. And then it's like I can see Jenna when she was like motioning, like take the cup down from your face.

14:06Then that made the panic 10 times worse. Like, great. She notices. This isn't just in my head. She notices. Oh, shit. Now everybody notices. And that was awful. Yeah. So yeah, I watched yours and I thought you handled that really well. Like how you just threw to the other people and got out of there. I thought that was really commendable because, yeah, you feel very much out of control. and I still have panic attacks. They're way less. Did you ever try beta blockers? No, I never tried beta blockers. And you talked about this, I think, in your book, but I had a similar thing that you had, which was I thought I had like the flu at one point.

14:45We were moving and my wife at the time was pregnant with our second child and I just finished my seventh season of SNL. It was a lot was happening and I was like, I have the flu. Like my arms and legs are really tired. They're super weighted down. I can't see straight. And I thought something was really horribly wrong with me and I went to a doctor and they're like, I think you might be depressed or I think you might just be really anxious. And I was like, no, no, no. There's something definitely wrong with me. I'm like walking through water all day, you know. I went on a Lexapro and then like a small dose of Lexapro and then like the next day it was gone.

15:25well then that was the placebo effect because yeah yeah right right yeah i was like oh the next day it's gone and they're like well it can't work that fast right and i was like oh so it's in my okay so it's in my head and i had a therapist say i go yeah i get really dizzy and i can't see straight and i'll like i'll stay home for weeks being like there's something wrong with me and she said, here, try this. Just go, this is anxiety. Just say it out loud. Go, this is anxiety. She goes, every time you hit the wave, just go, this is anxiety. And I did that and it would go away within 30 minutes. It was crazy.

16:04And I was like, wow, I had no idea the power that this can have over you. You know what I mean? And I'm realizing this in my 40s and I've been living with it your whole life. It's wild. So what are your earliest memories of being anxious or depressed or having just mental health challenges? I would say like missing the bus was a big one. Like getting on the school bus and I would have like this fear that the school bus was going to not take me to school. You know what I mean? It was stuff like that or I'm going to miss the bus or the bus driver isn't going to know where to go. And I would really freak out.

16:44And then in class, I would never raise my hand if I had a question or whatever. I would always kind of go up to the teacher afterwards and be like, hey, so I don't understand this. Just the shame of being wrong or looking like a fool and being ostracized or something like that. And then everybody just is always like, you just worry a lot. And it's funny, the meditation I learned was TM was helpful for a while. And then I didn't really learn mindfulness until like a couple months ago. It's been really helpful in terms of pinpointing how I'm feeling and you know it's just different it's been really great so I'm like now on a whole mindfulness I'm reading Mark Epstein and all your friends like all those books and stuff has been really helpful and I think a lot of people go through it as you get older it just becomes more and more apparent you're like god I hate feeling like this I want to try to like work on it so it's been great I think a lot of the people listening to the show know the difference between TM and mindfulness, but I suspect we're probably going to have some new listeners because people want to hear from you and have never heard of me before.

17:50What in your mind is the difference between TM and mindfulness? Well, TM, they give you a mantra and you just kind of repeat a mantra. The whole point of TM is trying to not think. You go back to the mantra and it kind of lulls you into this state of transcendence or a very deep relaxation. it's almost the opposite in my mind at least of mindfulness and that way you're just focusing on the the mantra and nothing else mindfulness is you're very much focusing on your breath so what the mantra was and tm and mindfulness as you know is like the breath and you focus on that and then when sensations are coming up you are very aware of them you go to them and you're open to them.

18:37And it's very much kind of, I'm sitting, you're very much mindful of your body in the chair, the sensations you're having. And then issues that, you know, you might be having in that moment, I'm angry, you know, or as Jessica Goldstein said, you know, a quiet note, I'm angry, you know, or I'm upset or this. And so you're kind of pinpointing a specific thing that's very helpful for me. So at this stage, not that TM is a bad practice, but for me personally at this stage where I'm at, the mindfulness has been very helpful in terms of going and being mindful of like, oh yeah, I get really riled up about this and now I'm aware of it.

19:21I'm not lost in it. Where the TM would just kind of put me into like a, I would just relax and it's like, for me, it was like getting to have a warm bath or something. and you were like, what's up? What just happened? What was I mad about? You know? Yeah, everybody was like Rick Moranis in Spaceballs after he like hits his head and he gets up, you know, and he's like, hey guys, you guys smoke them if you got them. You know? It's kind of like that thing. It was like, that's how I was after lunch. I would do TM and everybody would be like, oh man, Bill's, he just did his meditation because he's like, hey, what's going on everybody?

19:57he's not like a weird quiet guy um but the mindfulness is helpful just in like i was saying earlier where it's like okay this is what's happening in my body right now and you're just aware of it like right now i feel like i'm talking too much so there's like a mindful thing going you're talking too much dan might want to talk about something else and you're talking about Don't want this other stuff. Because I can do that. When I get nervous, I talk a lot. So it's like, hey, when you get nervous, you talk a lot. But it's not beating yourself up over it. It's like you have a sense of humor about it.

20:38Yes. Yes. There was a great line from this guy, Ram Dass, who was, he wasn't a Buddhist per se. He came more out of the Hindu tradition, but he was this Jewish guy from the Boston area who was a teacher at Harvard and got kicked out of Harvard because he was given the students acid or something like that. I'm probably mangling this somewhat. Oh, did he know Timothy Leary? Yeah, he and Timothy Leary were doing the acid or stuff together with the kids. And so they got both kicked out. And Richard Alpert, who went on to become Ram Dass and was in many ways very influential for the people that you refer to as my friends, like Joseph Goldstein and Mark Epstein and Sharon Salzberg, he was an influential figure for them.

21:20But he has this thing that the reason why I'm bringing him up because it really relates to everything you just said, which is that you can do meditation for a long time and it doesn't mean you don't worry anymore. It's more like you become a connoisseur of your neuroses. You just kind of appreciate them and see them with a sense of humor. Yeah, you kind of shrug at it and go, there's that fucking asshole.

21:47well it's like yeah they just kind of come in and it's like yeah of course i'm like that instead of me being like caught up in it like oh my god i'm so god you know you're you're in the the whirlpool and it's you know a raging river and you're being swallowed down by it you're kind kind of off to the side with your arms crossed being like, oh, Jesus, who's that asshole again? That's kind of how I am. Or like, oh, I'm worrying about this. But, you know, I did it the other day with my therapist where I was like, oh, I'm feeling sick and I'm supposed to go to this event and the event's this weekend.

22:23And if I'm sick, then I'm going to have to do this and I might have to wear a mask. And then, I don't know, it feels impersonal and blah, blah. And he went, Bill, it's Tuesday. What is wrong with you? And I went, right. I see what you're saying. And he went, yeah. Like, stop. And I used to think that was invalidating your feelings or whatever. And it's kind of nice to have the mindfulness. And I think you've talked about this. I think it's important to be doing mindfulness and therapy and whatever else you can be doing. Because I used to think, hey, I'm meditating. that's great I mean I'm drinking a ton of coffee and staying up all night and not working out and I eat jack-in-the-box every night but hey I'm meditating and it's like why am I uh freaking out all the time you know I'm meditating but it's all kind of part of the thing so yeah it was funny to have him kind of say like yeah man I'm not invalidating your feelings I'm just saying you're driving yourself crazy like stop you don't have to drive yourself crazy try it just give it a shot and um it's true it's really nice you know there's a name there's a technical term for the spinning out you were doing on tuesday with the shrink about the about the party on the weekend it's propunctia propunctia it's an ancient oh wow ancient word and it means the imperialistic tendency of mind.

24:07The fact that we have a data point in the present moment, which is, okay, I feel like shit. And then we make this phantasmagoric mental movie projecting into the future and we're imperializing the future with this negative movie making. And just the fact that there's a name for this thing. That's ancient. That's ancient, yes. it really it really it takes some of the air out of it it's like oh it's a pressure off you yes yes

24:42thank you to bill hader and thanks again to hayden for suggesting that excerpt we'll put a link to the full episode in the show notes don't forget that you can get brand new custom meditations with every monday wednesday episode this month our teacher of the month is don mauricio those guided meditations are available only to paid subscribers over at danharris.com. So get on over there and sign up if you haven't done that already. Also, you can take advantage of our merch sale. It ends on Monday, July 14th with up to 40 % off selected items over at shop.danharris.com. Finally, thank you to everybody who worked so hard to make this show.

25:18Our producers are Tara Anderson, Caroline Keenan, and Eleanor Vasili. Our recording and engineering is handled by the great folks over at Pod People. Lauren Smith is our managing producer. Marissa Schneiderman is our senior producer. DJ Kashmir is our executive producer. And Nick Thorburn of the Band Islands wrote our theme.

25:59more marketplaces with one platform that does it all. You can manage orders, sync inventory, track returns, all automatically. Everything your operation needs, all in one place. Upgrade your shipping operations to stress-proof your biggest sales days and capture every bit of potential revenue. Go to ShipStation.com and use code AUDIO and get 30 days free.