Next Time You're Suffering, Ask Yourself This Question | Caverly Morgan

28:10Yeah, thank you. I'm suggesting that it's when I feel that my attention's aligned with the conditioned mind, the mind that's habituated by society, family, friends, culture. When I'm identified with the conditioned mind, Time feels incredibly real. It just seems obvious that the present moment is now. The past is back there. The future is over there. And something that maybe isn't occurring to me if I'm viewing time in that way is to back up and just ask, is it possible that that view, that line of time is just a perception? What if there actually really only is now? We hear spiritual teachers talk about it all the time.

29:07But what if that's really the case? There's just this. And this includes the view of time that we're used to walking around operating inside. Now, I'm not going so far to say, so time is just illusion. I mean, it actually is. But I don't think statements like that are helpful. I had to time my day so that I could get up and be ready to talk to you today. I looked at a calendar, right? So there's a reality to time, but usually we're walking around assuming it's the whole picture, assuming it's reality with a capital R. What I find helpful to help get my sea legs and all of this stuff is the Buddhist concept of relative truth and ultimate truth.

30:00Just for the listener, because I know you know this, Kaverly, but for the listener, on the relative level is just basically our consensual reality. The reality in which we need an alarm clock to wake us up or tell us when we have to go somewhere and look at our calendar and I'm me, you're you. I need to get certain things done and interact with other people as if they're separate people. The movie in which we live. So on the level of relative truth, it's true. But on the ultimate level, ultimately, it's like taking a high-powered microscope to the chair I'm sitting in right now. It seems like a chair, but if I really look closely, it's spinning subatomic particles.

30:45It's mostly empty space. And the same is true in your mind. I feel like Dan, but if I really look for Dan, I can't find it. It's made up of component parts like thoughts and sensations, but there's no, as I said before, there's no like homunculus or core nugget of Dan that is findable. And therefore, there isn't on some level like real separation between me and you and me and the foam padding on this wall that we use to keep the sound out. I am porous in really important ways. And the art of living from a Buddhist standpoint is to kind of move seamlessly between these two realities, to let one inform the other.

31:26How am I doing? You're singing my song. I'm right there with you. And what I really love is when we continue down this road, we will find in our own direct experience, at least in mine, that they're not even two realities. And that's where things get really fun. So, yes, there's the absolute and then there's the relative. I like the word absolute, and I think you said ultimate, but just for the listener, it's the same thing. So that doesn't even have to be viewed as, okay, well, shit, I got to go about my day and just tend to all these relative things, but I can't wait till I clock out because then I get to hang out in the absolute and I get to just be.

32:07I get to just feel my own aware being and enjoy the peace of my own true nature. We actually can know ourselves as the absolute, as our aware being, and then we can address the relative. We can be in the relative. So, for example, I can, if I'm talking to you and I'm like, oh, gosh, this is Dan. He's famous and I'm nobody. I need to act this way. He's acting this way. And I'm really reaffirming the idea that I'm separate, you're separate, and now I'm in relationship with you here on the relative plane. It's really different if I come into the conversation and I'm like, there's Dan. We share the same being.

32:56Like we're the same. Ultimately, we're the same shit. Dan's just arising over there. I'm arising over here. And now it's my intention to relate to Dan and actually all the listeners by speaking from my being to their being. And that's a different conversation usually. So it's to me really powerful to let even the idea of absolute and relative collapse together. Yes, that makes sense to me. I do want to, however, keep representing those for whom this conversation still may not make sense. Let me say to you, the listener, parenthetically, thank you for hanging in because we've covered these kinds of subjects before.

33:37And thank you for hanging in on those conversations, too, because this stuff is important and can take a while to make sense. So I do want to represent those folks who might still be struggling a little bit. When you say just be or hanging out in awareness, I do want to come back to the question of how to do that? Like, what does that look like? One analogy I like to use, Dan, is that before this recent chapter of my own practice and training, I only focused on trying to put the attention where I want it to be. So if you picture a flashlight, I focused on, oh, I'm now able to see through mindfulness practice that the flashlight is over on thoughts of regret.

34:27Oh, because of mindfulness practice, I can see that the flashlight's on fearing that I don't have enough money and I'm gonna end up with a shopping cart outside a grocery store, like with no home. So that practice, if we talk about what my practice looked like for many years, it was just to learn how to notice where that attention was and then redirect it to what we've talked about as something in the present moment, like I'm going to redirect it to the experience of sitting on this chair. Or in walking meditation, I'm going to redirect it to the felt sense of the soles of my feet. So the flashlight's getting refocused.

35:07One thing that I find useful as an image is to imagine that the flashlight, the light of the flashlight, were allowed to just draw back into the flashlight itself. That the light of the flashlight could just go in the other direction for a moment, that the attention could actually relax instead of I've been habituated to train the attention to be in these other places, to have an object that's of the present moment as an anchor. So getting to relax the attention is what I refer to as getting to hang out in my own being. And what I'm suggesting is that when we hang out in our own being, we actually directly experience the very thing that I was trying to get through practicing my ass off.

36:01And I'm not suggesting, of course, that that doesn't mean don't use those practices. They're really helpful. and they can be helpful in what you're i think prodding us to do because it does take some concentration some ability to focus the mind in order to do what i think it does in order to do what you're suggesting we do but i do want to keep pressing you on this like so very practically if i get home at the end of the day or even in the middle of my day as you suggested earlier i want to shine the light, the beam of light from the flashlight back into the flashlight. Is it as simple as that just to imagine a flashlight and then go for it?

36:43Or there are little practices that you recommend? That might work for someone, but it could be as simple as noticing. This is kind of comes back to that snap practice. It could be as simple as just noticing that your attention has been bouncing from thing to thing to thing to thing all day long. And that because you've been practicing mindfulness. Maybe you've been trying to get it to just focus on present moment things, and maybe you're tired. Maybe in that moment where you recognize, damn, I'm just tired, you invite the attention that's been going out to all the things, all the objects, to just soften and relax.

37:22If you relax the attention, it naturally comes back to its home. That's why I love Jeff Warren stole the title home base. I wish I had thought of that before him. It's so good. Home base. We're coming back to home base. We're letting the attention come home to being. It's not a fancy thing, actually. Well, I know it's very natural what you're describing. However, if I just try to relax my attention, mostly I start thinking about like what's for dinner. So is that what you're describing or because I don't think it is what you're describing because in my default mode, it's rumination. Yes. So one thing that might be helpful if I'm suddenly catching myself ruminating and it feels kind of impossible to relax my attention, I try to relax my attention, it just bounces to the next thing.

38:16One of the things that I find helpful is to directly recognize that the way I know that my attention's bouncing all over the place is because I'm aware of it. That's how I know. That's how I can tell you, Dan, I woke up this morning. I was thinking about, is this the right shirt to wear for our podcast? You know, I'm tracking where my attention went in preparation for talking to you. How do I, how can I tell you this? Because I'm aware that's what my attention was doing. Okay, let me just surrender to that awareness. I'm just going to surrender to what's naturally aware. And it's not aware because I applied effort.

38:59That's the critical thing here. That's been the critical thing in my own practice. I really thought that being aware was somehow like the byproduct of how hard I was working. And it didn't occur to me for a long time that awareness is primary. It's usually like in the backdrop of my experience. But just like surrendering the attention to awareness lets awareness come to the forefront of my experience instead of hanging out in the shadows, instead of it being something we're actually never thinking about. it. I'm going to describe some practices that I learned from Joseph Goldstein that have been helpful.

39:38Joseph Goldstein, just for the uninitiated, is a great meditation teacher that helped me see what I think you're pointing to. So let me describe them and then you can tell me if I'm in the same neighborhood as you. Does that sound all right? Please. So one thing Joseph often has his students do is just like move your arm just very gently. This isn't even like a form of meditation, but just to move your arm or any limb or anything on your body and just notice like how much effort is required to feel the sensations of movement. It's effortless. You don't have to do anything to feel your arm moving.

40:13We do a lot of efforting in meditation. We try to focus on one thing. We get distracted. We haul our attention back, et cetera, et cetera. But essentially, the act of knowing takes a lot of effort. the remembering to wake up and all that stuff can be a little effortful. But the raw knowing of sensation or even mentation, you know, thinking is effortless. And so one little practice I do in my own practice is I'll just drop that word effortless into my mind as I'm walking, for example, or feeling my breath. It's like, yeah, there's no effort required just to know this. and then a supplemental thing I'll do also from Joseph is use the passive voice so specifically breathing is being known or movement is being known or seeing is being known and then this is the key to add the question by what and then you investigate all right what's as I keep saying who or what is taking delivery of these mental packages and I find in those moments I get a little glimpse of the fact that there is no core me.

41:28There is no self that is findable. First of all, what do you think of those practices? And second, am I describing what you're describing? Are we talking about the same thing? We're talking about the same thing. I love those practices. And I think at one point I might have misheard you. I might have, I thought I heard you say knowing takes effort, but I think what you're pointing to is that the knowing itself is effortless. Yes. If I misspoke, I apologize. That's what I meant. Like the knowing. It's effortless. Yes. Sorry, I got excited. I interrupted you. Please continue. No, no. I think I was the one interrupting you.

42:02But OK, this leads to my question. When you talk about hanging out in awareness, like for me, I can get little glimpses. And by the way, that is in some classical Buddhist traditions. The word glimpse is very important. Like I can get a little glimpse of the illusion of the self. but I've never managed to be able to hang out in it in any real way. I just kind of, I like to use the analogy of just like knocking at the door with one of these questions, like known by what I can knock at the door and there might be a little sense of, Holy shit. Like this is just an empty room, like a vast empty room.

42:40Actually it's filled with everything except for me. And that's really interesting, but I don't sit there for an hour at a time. Does that make sense? Do you see what I'm trying to get at? I totally do. And this is where, Dan, I think our shared love of practice will collide because some people say it's a non-practice to return to your own being because it doesn't take any effort to realize that you're aware. You can realize right now, like, are you aware of the sound of my voice? Are you aware of the water that you're taking a sip of in this moment? Are you aware of swallowing? It's actually incredibly simple to realize that we're aware.

43:22Again, because it's so simple, some people will say it's a non-practice. I actually love practice. So I'm really hip to say I like to practice the non-practice. I like to recognize as I'm drinking my tea that I could be spending that whole time being mindful of the taste of the tea as a practice. And that's a beautiful practice. I also could practice being aware of the knowing of the taste of the tea while I'm also enjoying the taste of the tea. And the reason I underline practice and the value of it is because we get better at this as we do it. We stabilize in the knowing of ourselves as presence, as aware being, the more we practice resting in that knowing.

44:19And then it just becomes enjoyable to be really present to whatever you're doing. But that's not because you're working really hard to try to get better and just focusing on, for example, becoming less reactive and more responsive and hopefully becoming a better person, a better individual self through your training. This interplay of effort and effortlessness is, I think, in my experience, like a big part of the art of the practice. And I just want to say to anybody who might be frustrated or confused still, there's nothing wrong with you. This is subtle stuff. and like where I often end up in these situations is just like do the practices.

45:07Do your basic meat and potatoes, mindfulness practice. Try these glimpse practices and see what happens. You know, don't get too sweaty about it. Notice when you do get sweaty because that's inevitably going to happen. But just, you know, what do they say in the Zen tradition? Chop wood, carry water. Do your thing and see how it goes. Yeah, it's a beautiful interplay. That's why I like Suzuki Roshi's quote that you're perfect just as you are and you could use a little improvement. I love that. So we can recognize the wholeness of our being. We can recognize the effortless nature of getting to just be ourselves.

45:48And there might be some things we want to work on in our lives. Like I practicing a specific communication skill has helped my marriage. That's again, this is the fun part to me, Dan. What's really helped my marriage is to supercharge that practice. So let's say I learned in couples therapy that to supercharge that practice with the knowing that I'm not separate from my husband, that we share our very being. it's just kind of skyrocketed the effects of the practice it doesn't mean i'm now not ever going to practice anything it means that the practices come from a different understanding and what the byproduct of that is we get to just freaking enjoy our lives we get to practice something for the love of wanting to be here for the life that we're here to live we get to practice something because there's joy in it.

46:51Coming up, Kaverly talks about some more ways to supercharge your practice and how love and self-compassion factor into all of this.

47:16with free one-on-one design support for any project on any budget. Yep, we said free. Oh, and did we mention the cafe? So what are you waiting for? Come see all that's in store. Visit the Wayfair store today at Edens Plaza and Wilmette. Wayfair, every style, every home. Let me ask you about some more practices, and I don't know if these practices are effortful or effortless. I'll let you describe them. We've talked already about Snap, See It, Name It, Allow It, Presence. Another practice that you discussed with my compadre, Marissa, senior producer on the show, who collaborated with you on preparing me for this interview.

47:56One of the practices you and Marissa discussed was asking this question. What leads towards suffering and what leads away from it? Can you say more about what you mean by that? Yeah, I just, Dan, this question has been so helpful in my own life. You know, I find that this practical question, if I can think to ask the question, I'm already on the road to freedom. So there I am in any situation presenting itself, maybe something where I feel myself, the place my attention just went is I feel myself really wanting to be right about something. I mean, Dan, I'm just going to break it to you. I'm right.

48:41I'm just really right. That thing that happened yesterday, I'm just right. So whatever that thing is. I believe you. I'm on your side. Yeah, you're on my side. You get it. No, it's like those moments where you're just, you don't even think of it as I'm being right. You just know you're holding what's right and what's real and what's true. Those are those awesome moments to say, does this lead towards suffering or away from it? Does my clinging on to that lead towards suffering or away from it? That moment of, for example, feeling so identified with being right is a really good example of it's really hard.

49:21You can't be right in that sense and be free. Because you have to be identified with a sense of separateness in order to be right in that kind of identified way that I'm describing. So it's helpful to be able to say, all right, where am I going here? Where does this lead? This process I'm doing. Reminds me of and I've talked about this movie before. So my apologies to listeners who are tired of me mentioning this movie. But there was a movie, I think, a decade ago called The Bridge of Spies starring Tom Hanks. And he's played a lawyer for a Russian accused spy. And Tom Hanks, his character is a quite highly strung.

50:06and every once in a while he would come in talking about some devastating development in the case to his client and his client would receive the news impassively and hanks's character would say you know what why aren't you stressed about this and the client would say would it help oh perfect yeah same thing same thing i haven't seen that movie no i just wrote it down though um yeah we have to ask ourselves My husband's very good at asking this question, actually. He's really good at saying, yeah, I'll be caught in something. And he'll say, well, what would the outcome of that be? Play this out for me.

50:47Where do you think if you were to bring this up or do this behavior or follow through with that, where do you see it going? And that's another way to realize, oh, shit, that actually, I just end up further down the hill of, see, I'm right. And I get to be righteous and I get to feel, you know, special. But it doesn't actually, when I play it out, it doesn't lead to like deepened connection, deepened intimacy. And these are all things I really want. And I would suggest most of us, Even if we don't word it that way, don't we all want to be loved, feel love? And then I would add, based on our conversation today, Dan, and this is that little extra step that if people are drawn to play with it, go for it.

51:39It's to know ourselves as love. Okay, this is. Because ultimately, I think that's what we are looking for. Yeah, please. I was just going to double click on that because this is an interesting point. We've talked about, well, who are we really? We're unfindable and therefore inextricably interwoven with the surround, with the universe, whatever you want to call it. But the idea that actually that mystery that we are is synonymous with love, that might bear some explanation. I think that's fair. The reason I feel comfortable calling that love is because every time I'm deeply experiencing love, what's really going on is that there's simply a falling away of this distorted view that I'm separate.

52:41So it's like that little tiny caverly that runs around trying so hard in life and wants to get everything perfect and wants to be right and thinks that she's going to get love if she's right, which is a really sad setup that keeps me working hard all the time. when that narrative when that distortion when that illusion gets to fall away what's left is an experience that I would call love it's an experience where there isn't two there's just to use a really a phrase you might say Kaverly that's too woo-woo for me but it's like there's just the unity of being. And that I experience is love. It's the collapse of you and me.

53:31Again, let's go back to a practical relative, plain, absolute thing. If I'm coming at you and I feel you as totally separate from me, I actually might have some hallmark feelings that we could call love with like a lowercase l for you. But when there's L with a capital L, it's because I'm recognizing that you and I share the same being. And that's that's love. That's why we love being in love, because this I disappears. What do they call orgasm and in French? Isn't it? Isn't it a little death? I didn't know that. I do speak a little French, but I didn't. Clearly, I didn't get that far enough in my studies or I was not studying in the right places.

54:14Yeah. Dan, you didn't learn enough French to learn orgasm. No, I probably just was not doing well enough with the opposite sex to have it come up in context yeah well that makes sense a little death because the the self can go away in those moments and it also makes sense what you're saying you know i think this is kind of grounded like how do we joseph goldstein always talks about you know we're naturally drawn to people who are less self-centered totally and that is kind of synonymous with enlightenment in the Buddhist sense. Like you're turning down the volume on the ego, on the self, and therefore you're more available.

54:53And what is that if not love? What is that if not love? And I would suggest that we're more available than our limited minds even understand how to comprehend when we're not identified with the illusion of separate self. For example, if you're not identified with that illusion, you have access to information that is not available to you. If you're in conversation with me right now, only focused on yourself. If you're only focused on, you know, do I look good or do I, whatever, you're self-centered. Maybe it's just, what am I having for dinner? So there's so much we cut out of view. The minute the small sense of self can be seen for the illusion that it is, possibility is infinite.

55:51When I first started getting interested in Buddhism, I would hear this concept that we're discussing now sometimes referred to as selflessness. And I always had to if I was going to explain it to somebody, I would say, you know, it's different from selflessness the way we use the word. You know, we use it as generosity. But in Buddhism, they mean there is no self. But actually, they are the same on some important levels. Yeah, say more about that. I'm curious. Well, if getting over yourself makes you more loving, it is both selfless in the sense that there's less of a self. I'm not so identified with Dan.

56:31And it is selfless in the Western conventional term in that I am going to be more generous with my attention, with anything. Absolutely. And you know, Dan, in this moment, it's also arising for me to acknowledge that someone might be conditioned to think less of themselves, to actually walk around feeling like I'm nobody. Nobody cares about me. Nobody loves me, right? Like to already diminish themselves in the way that we would diminish ourselves on the relative plane. So it feels important in this moment to also acknowledge the ego can work in many ways. And by ego, I just am referring to the activity of the conditioned mind that sees itself as separate.

57:16So the ego can be puffed up and the ego can be, I'm the biggest piece of shit, right? So that's not the no self we're talking about. We're not talking about that side of the duality. And that seems important to underline, too, for the listeners who who might be not clear about that. Yeah, a pitfall of the path here would be a kind of self-abnegation or maybe that's why you're so focused on combining these seemingly two contradictory concepts, self-compassion and not self. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Because what interests me about the work of self-compassion is that self-compassion, when approached from this recognition of who we truly are, like the heart of who we truly are, it's an invitation to return to wholeness versus I have to use this technique to help me feel a little better.

58:24It becomes much bigger than a Band-Aid, in other words. I'm not suggesting, for example, one of the practices that we did at the monastery where I trained early on was we learned the practice of learning how to recognize negative self-talk. And then we learned how to apply unconditionally loving reassurances to really retrain the brain. And one of the things that I thought was incredibly impactful once I was learning, I was being trained to facilitate retreats as a monastic. I'll never forget my teacher saying we were doing role plays. It's more important that the retreatant has the experience of being the one that reassures the part of them that is hurt or in need than it is that that part gets reassured.

59:14And I realize now that that's because it's so powerful to recognize ourselves as that which can offer unconditional love. Even in that schema, though, even in that. And I've thought about this quite a bit in working with self-compassion myself. Like. If I'm reassuring myself, who's doing the reassuring and who's receiving the reassuring right in that is a glimpse of selflessness. Kristen Neff led a workshop called Who is the Self in Self-Compassion? And I think that's exactly the glimpse you're pointing to. We realized later that it was too esoteric of a title and we've since changed the title.

59:55And now that question is sort of buried in the write-up of, you know, we lead retreats together and, you know, it's sort of buried a little bit more because I don't necessarily know that it's really helpful to people to lead with that for the same reasons that you've pointed to in this conversation. but that's the glimpse that you and I are focusing on here. What happens to my practice when I realize that I am unconditional love? I don't even have to work my ass off to try to get better at practicing saying these kind things to myself. I can if it's useful to be in a moment of stress. But things really shift when I recognize that I am this fastness.

1:00:42And then when I recognize this fastness is inherently aware. And I would say inherently loving. Let's say if we can sneak in one last practice before we run out of time here, there's something you recommend called fleshing out our conditioning. What's that all about? Yeah, that practice I spoke with Marissa about a little bit is a practice that's in my book, The Heart of Who We Are. And what I got excited about in that book, Dan, is what happens when we take practices, practices like recognizing negative self-talk, practices like seeing our conditioned behaviors, for example, seeing our survival strategies, learning how to return to presence.

1:01:27What happens when we take these and we apply them collectively? So in the book, I focus on how we have what we think of as a personal ego, but we also have a collective ego. And so, for example, I can learn to see my own personal negative self-talk, learn how to disidentify from that negative self-talk, return to presence. I can also learn how to see the conditioning of an entire group or collective that I identify with. And that's exciting to me because I think we're in a time where we could use the application of personal practice in a collective way. So a practice where I can flesh out my own conditioning, where I can see, oh, I've been taught I'm only lovable if, and then I fill in the blank.

1:02:22Or I need to work really hard too, and then I fill in the blank. We can take that same practice as I do in my book, and then we can apply it to a collective we identify with. As a white woman raised in the South, I'm only lovable if, and then I have a very specific answer to that that's different than my personal answer, because I'm replying on behalf of a whole collective. So imagine if we could not only see our personal conditioning and disidentify from it, but we could see our collective conditioning and disidentify from it. This, to me, is how we'll realize freedom together. I don't dismiss at all the value of doing this collectively, but just selfishly, I'm drawn to it on an individual level.

1:03:10I want to read some of these prompts you have here. You mentioned this one, in order to be loved, I need to. During times of conflict, I should. my parents always taught me that I deserve dot dot dot I'll be comfortable when dot dot dot I'll be happy when dot dot dot I know I should avoid dot dot dot anyway I'll drop the full list in the in the show notes but personally it feels like it would be very helpful for me to answer these questions because it would be like bringing out of my unconscious many of the habitual storylines that are driving my behavior that I might otherwise not see. Exactly, Dan.

1:03:50That's really, thank you for reflecting that. That's really the whole point is that we get to, with a practice like this, and I'm so glad you'll put it in the show notes for people to try out, we get to see what's usually in the shadows. Through a practice of awareness, we get to bring it forward and not be confused that that's who I am. So again, a practice like this is all in the name of revealing who we've been conditioned to be, which can highlight who we truly are or the heart of who we truly are. because if we're walking around identified with who we've been conditioned to be all day, every day, it's really hard to even recognize what's there at the backdrop of our experience, this vastness that you and I have talked about.

1:04:41So if I can see how I've been conditioned, if I can catch those automated responses, and for anyone who wants to fill them out, My greatest encouragement is don't give the enlightened answers. Let your conditioning, let the mind of limitation, you know, reveal how it's been habituated and how it keeps you in a box. And then if you think it's fun, just go through all those prompts and apply we and let it be for any collective you identify with. It can be especially powerful if you do this and then someone who identifies with another collective or uses another collective through the same prompts gets to share notes on that.

1:05:24A lot gets revealed about not only how suffering gets created in a personal way, but how all of this collective suffering that we see as we look around us right now gets maintained, plays out. Before I let you go, can you just remind everybody of the name of your book and anything else you've made and put out into the universe that we should be aware of? Dan, thank you. The book is I have two books. One is called The Kid's Book About Mindfulness. And that book, for anyone who enjoyed the part of our conversation where we were exploring this question of who the hell are we really? That kid's book starts with the question, who are you?

1:06:04It doesn't say hell in the kid's book. So the kids book is called A Kid's Book About Mindfulness. And the adult, the book that I wrote for adults is called The Heart of Who We Are, Realizing Freedom Together. And that book takes personal practices, applies them collectively. And that book has the backdrop understanding that who you are is already whole. So you're not, it's not presented in such a way that if you make it to the end of this book, you're going to be better. It's really coming from you're already whole. Now, let's play with these practices. And then, Dan, all the other things on my website by the time this airs should be up to date.

1:06:47And I love leading retreats. And thanks for giving me an opportunity to give a shout out about my various online offerings and retreats that can be found through KaverlyMorgan.org. Awesome. We'll put a link to that in the show notes, KaverlyMorgan.org. Kaverly, thank you very much. Thank you, Dan. It's been a real pleasure.

1:07:09Thanks again to Kaverly. By the way, she's putting together a web page called Things I Wish I Had Said to Dan. So we'll put a link to that in the show notes when it's ready. Don't forget, there's a custom guided meditation that comes along with this episode. You can get it if you sign up at danharris.com. It's all about how to turn down the volume on the voice in your head. There's a growing library of companion meditations over on danharris.com, so go check it out. And next month, we'll be kicking off weekly live guided meditation sessions on video. And our Teacher of the Month starting in September will be Vinny Ferraro, and he'll join me on September 2nd for our first weekly session.

1:07:48And while I'm plugging here, don't forget to check out Meditation Party. That's my in-person meditation retreat at the Omega Institute in late October. It's a full weekend. Seven Day Selassie, Jeff Warren, and Afosu Jones-Korte will be there. There's a registration link in the show notes. Finally, I want to thank everybody who worked so hard to make this show. Our producers are Tara Anderson, Caroline Keenan, and Eleanor Vasili. Our recording and engineering is handled by the great folks over at Pod People. Lauren Smith is our production manager. Marissa Schneiderman is our senior producer. DJ Kashmir is our executive producer.

1:08:20And Nick Thorburn of the band Islands wrote our theme.

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