Reset Your Nervous System: Actionable Advice for Stress, Burnout, and Trauma | Linda Thai

29:02My sleep gets terrible. My digestive system starts to not be able to digest even the good foods that I'm giving to it. My elimination systems become challenged. I'm persistently dehydrated. I'm running on empty. And perhaps I start to double down even further or I go towards less healthy coping mechanisms. and then eventually the body says no and then I go into a retreat, collapse, withdraw, I need two weeks off so I can recharge, reboot, so I can head back to work. And so the nervous system in that stage of burnout is going back and forth between I can, I can, I can, I can, I'm overriding and then oh my God, I need to totally check out in order to recoup and recover and then I'm going back into I can, I can, I can, I can And then I'm ricocheting back and forth while being somewhat in denial about the systems around me that are colluding with me, perhaps offering me retreats, giving me money and staff incentives in order to be able to recoup so that I can get back into things and keep going, going, going, going, going at a pace that is far, far too unsustainable.

30:22And yet we might be caught up in the glamour and the achievement and getting things done. There might even be a teamwork and a camaraderie around this and all the things we've been able to do with such little resources. And yet this is when it starts to become cultural and systemic and can be incredibly hard to get ourselves out of. Did you say, you said a lot there that was really interesting, but one thing I'm picking up on is, did you say that when we're in a state of chronic stress or burnout, we get constipated? Yes, because we're dehydrated and our body is also in the fight or flight. As an animal in nature, if you're taking a crap in nature, you're actually really, really vulnerable because the entirety of your system actually has to be relaxed.

31:13And so in that state of absolute relaxation, you're not able to mobilize to take someone else down or to run away. And yet we need to be totally relaxed in order to pass a bowel movement. And so if my nervous system is in chronic stress, there is no way I can relax enough to like sit down and relax and take a crap. And so I can go back and forth between being constipated and then having diarrhea. And I see you nodding and laughing, Dan. Is this familiar for you? No, I'm laughing just because I'm 53, but basically a seven-year-old. And anytime people talk about poop, I think it's funny.

31:54It's actually when I'm working with children, which isn't very often these days. However, I actually, instead of asking about the stress in their lives or what their home lives are like, I will actually oftentimes ask about pooping. and I'll ask their parents about pooping as an indication of the nervous system of the child and whether the child is able to relax. Coming up, Linda talks about how to figure out if you're stressed, burned out or traumatized. What's the difference? How do we know? And also, crucially, we talk about some tools for everyday resilience.

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34:32this may sound like such an obvious question i apologize for it but i actually think it's going to take us somewhere useful how do we know if we're stressed or burned out or traumatized like is there a way to self-diagnose for this and maybe it's as simple as how's your pooping going i would start with a physical and physiological i love the home-based biometric devices the wearable devices that will give you an indication of your heart rate variability of your heart rate your blood pressure that measure your amount of sleep and the quality of your sleep i would also ask the people in your life how do they know when you're stressed what are the phrases that you say that give them a sense that you're stressed what are the things that you won't do or reject doing or that you do as a way of relaxing from the stress that you're experiencing.

35:31Our capacity for connection tends to go down the more stressed we are. And so that can also be an indication. With prolonged distress, this is where also feedback from people in your life is important. And this is where the physiological signs also can give us an indication of whether we are overriding the body and overriding the nervous system. This is where there may be a visit to the dentist and the dentist may say, have you been grinding your teeth at night while you're asleep? It's the more in-depth physiological conditions that start to emerge where because our bodies and our nervous systems are mobilizing all the time, then our cholesterol goes up.

36:26We start to move towards pre-diabetes because the body is flooding the bloodstream system with instant energy in the form of sugars and things that are quick to digest, quick to metabolize. We might find ourselves eating comfort food and comfort foods are typically foods that are very easy to convert into instant energy. You might find yourself getting weight gain or weight loss that is not in alignment with the amount of energy output and caloric input. There's also a lot of weight gain around the midsection area of the body because the body is saying, oh no, I have to actually hold on to calories as much as possible because if we're going to be living this way, then I need to be sure that I will always have enough calories.

37:20And on the converse side of that, for some bodies, it's a case of I'm not going to put on any weight at all. If anything, I'm going to shed excess weight because this is a marathon and I am going to be as lean as possible given that this is a marathon. You mentioned wearables. I have an Apple Watch. I'm not getting paid by Apple, but just to say that. So you can wear whatever wearable you want. I do feel like I can take it too far and get a little obsessive about looking at the various numbers. I heard an interesting comment recently. I'm not sure if you're familiar with this guy, Peter Attia, who's kind of the, yeah, you're nodding your head.

38:03Peter wrote a book called Outlive. He's got a podcast called The Drive, and he's one of the best known longevity scientists. He's kind of like the name I think of when I think of hardcore optimizers who are, you know, trying to get healthy. I was with Peter at an event recently, and somebody asked him, what area of wellness do you allow yourself not to do? And he said, I stopped tracking my sleep. I really took notice because I've noticed that I can get a little obsessive about looking at my sleep numbers. And then my wife asked me the other day, how'd you sleep last night? And I heard myself say, I haven't checked my watch yet.

38:44I'd just be curious to hear your thoughts on the pros and cons of the quantified self? Yes. For me, I look at it in terms of patterns rather than static moments in time. I always look for the context and then I'm looking for patterns within that context. And then that gives an indication of overall trends. And so for me, I've actually found that sleep, it can be an incredible diagnostic indicator just as heart rate variable can be, just as resting heart rate can be. And we have to frame it within the systems of our lives and the context of the seasons. Like I live here in Alaska, we have a lot of daylight right now.

39:31It's like 21, 22 hours of daylight. My body doesn't need as much sleep. It doesn't want as much sleep, the quality is still incredible, but the six hours of sleep is horrifying for the biometric devices, given that they take the numbers outside of a context. I also noticed that there are times when my relationships are great and my work is fulfilling and I'm finding that I don't need as much sleep. My body wants to get out of bed in the morning and wants to go and do things. and the nourishment that I'm getting throughout the day, it more than outweighs the sleep that I'm not getting. And yet I also know that if that continues for an unsustainable period of time, and that is very much dependent on each person, my body will start to show the signs that it needs more sleep.

40:31And yet I find that a nap during the day, especially during the summers when I'm getting not as much sleep, that can be really helpful. And so this is where it's very much tailored to the individual. Duly noted. We've done a lot of good work here, I think, on the definitional and theoretical contextual tip. Let's move into practical steps for people who want to reset their nervous system. I believe you call these tools for everyday resilience. You and the producer for this episode, Marissa Schneiderman, produced a list for me. So I'm going to work down this list. First on this list is, I believe you call it how to not ever need to ask for help ever.

41:14Let your struggles be known in real time. In other words, you never have to ask for help if you're constantly in conversation with people around you about how you're doing. Instead of the perfunctory, hey, how are you? You're actually giving answers and seeking answers to that question. That is correct. I mean, I spent probably the first 35 years of my life trying to find the magic hack of how to not ever ask anyone for help ever and how to never ever need help ever and how to never ever need another human ever. And life took me on a series of merry adventures. And the conclusion that I came to is, this is how I don't ever need to ask for help ever, is that my life is seen and known and who I am is seen and heard and known in real time.

42:02It's terrible and it's wonderful and it's terrible. What's the terrible part? Well, for some of us, including myself, it was my life's mission to not need anyone ever because people were terrible to me. Yeah. And I was trying to find the magic mantra, the fabulous guru, the meditation technique, the series of yoga poses that would help me to be independent, self-reliant as the self-contained unit. And I know that we have listeners in this space who may perhaps have also been on a similar journey themselves. Yeah, some of the things you're saying echo things that I've heard my wife talk about. I once heard her say of her own inner dialogue, who am I to have needs?

42:58Yeah. Yeah. And within the context of someone's life, not having needs may have actually been how we survived. Yeah. And so when something arises as a result of a survival imperative, it can feel dangerous to try on little baby steps towards the idea of the possibility of letting someone in or letting oneself be seen or heard or known. How does this go for you on a daily basis? I'm imagining just it's basic interpersonal hygiene of you have good relationships in your life and you're talking to people about how you're doing and how they're doing. Am I close? Yes, yes. And it took 10 years of addiction recovery and trauma recovery and communication skills and boundaries and nonviolent communication and the work of putting in the reps to pick up the phone and talk to people, of going to 12-step meetings, of being not scared of the sound of my own voice, of being not scared of my needs.

44:13Because for many of us, as soon as we have a need, we go in a fight or flight about it. It's like, I have a need, no, I don't. I have a need, no, I don't. So there's the denial. And then I have a need, well, get out of my way while I take care of my need. You're in my way. It can be very real. We are in a loneliness epidemic. A lot of people listening might be thinking, yeah, well, I don't know people who I can really talk to. What do you say to those folks? Start with wherever you're at. So for some of us, we start talking to our pets or our plants or chat GPT or other forms of AI. We start to connect to groups that into the community, but through texting.

44:56Yeah, I think that's part of the rise in social media that then contributes to the loneliness epidemic. But at the start, it feels like it's an antidote to it because I can connect to people out there. And to then start to find your people, whether it's going to poetry readings or sitting around a space at a bookstore where everyone's together but quiet or going to an art group where everyone's together and having conversation but not about themselves where you're just training your nervous system to be around other people and to then move the needle from there in ways that feel accessible and available and appropriate for you so that eventually we begin to start talking to people.

45:52You know, it's that piece about how being seen and being heard and being known is a function of groups. It's a function of communities. And when your very first experience of group or community, which is family of origin, has been suboptimal, then we go through the world feeling bereft. And then we live in a society that says, find your one special individual other who will be your absolute everything. And then that becomes a house of cards because your partner cannot be your mentor and your spiritual guide and your soul twin and the parent that you wish you had have had back then, as well as the person who puts boundaries for you.

46:35It's a house of cards. And so to be seen and to be heard and to be known is a function of groups and it's a function of communities. And so the encouragement and the invitation is to find your people. Yeah, I'll speak up for the people who don't like poetry or making art too much, but you mentioned CrossFit before. I'm a big fan of group exercise. I also am a fan of volunteering. You know, it doesn't have to be anything too heavy. It can be, you know, animal shelter or something like that. It's a great way to find your people and your cats and dogs. Yes, yes. It could also be a meditation group or a yoga group or the people in the Dan Harris community.

47:20When you find your people, life gets easier. And there are all manner of ways to be with people. and it might not be the depth of the intimacy that you're longing for or perhaps scared of and yet we begin yeah dog walking groups yep or even taking a risk and chatting to somebody at the dog park or in an elevator i mean there's just there are lots of research around micro interactions how we deal with people we have quick interactions with throughout the day the barista the colleague i'll drop a link in the show notes to an interview we did with barbara Fredrickson about that. But just to keep things moving, another of your ideas is something you could do first thing in the morning, right when you wake up.

48:07Can you describe that? Yes. So for many of us, we're like pieces of toast in a toaster. Like as soon as we get up, it's like pop, right? The piece of toast just pops up and I'm out of bed and I'm going. and the invitation is to notice that and to lie back down and to then feel the support of the bed beneath your body and trust that you're supported and then allow your eyes to orient to the space so let your eyes move around connect to the far distance connect to your peripheral vision. Allow your breath to fill yourself all the way from your toes to your fingertips. Come back again to that felt sense of feeling supported by the ground beneath your body, the bed beneath your body.

49:03And then see if you can hold on to that felt sense of expansion and support. As you then come up to seated and then pause there, connect once again to the horizon, connect once again to the peripheral vision, connect once again to the feeling of feeling supported, and then stay connected to that as you then start to move into your day. Physiologically, how and why does all of that work? It works because what happens as we start to mobilize and move throughout our day, we're in the front part of our body. We're in the go mode. Yeah, I'm in the front side of my body. And when we start to move towards a peri-trauma response, when the stress starts to get a little bit too high, then we lose the peripheral vision and we become short-sighted.

49:59And we are totally and entirely in the front body. and so this anchor or this tether into the backside of the body into the peripheral vision and towards the horizon can then become a somatic imprint or a body memory that we can go back to because as that slider switch moves into sympathetic that's that mobilization yeah that's when things start to focus in yeah so that we can get things done and yet it can become too narrowly focused in and we become short-sighted. And so we lose that capacity. Okay, so this is the best explanation I've heard for this because I've heard many, many, many meditation teachers talk about, you know, as you're sitting or lying down in the practice to feel supported by the earth.

50:48And I've always written it off as is my want, as just the kind of bullshit that meditation teachers say. But what you're saying here lands for me that we are constantly in go mode, the front side of our body and not feeling supported, actually feeling like we're toppling forward. And one way to counteract that is right when you wake up, presumably you're lying down as when you wake up, to lie there for a minute, to feel supported by the earth and to take that felt sense with you throughout the day. Similarly, if you have micro moments of a meditation practice throughout the day, one of the Chan dynasty meditation teachers would say, soften your eyes and bring your awareness to the area behind the back of your eyes and bring your awareness to the area behind the back of your head.

51:47And that would be the cue at the start of every single sit. and notice how the body then starts to come, move away from the front body and starts to connect to a central axis and then the area around the eyes soften and then there's a connection to the peripheral vision as well as to the horizon in the distance. And that then gives us more expansive capacity to be here and it takes us out of this doing, doing, doing mode and into being mode. It's actually impossible to be in doing mode when we have access to peripheral vision and to the horizon and bringing your awareness to the area behind the back of the eyes and bringing your awareness to the area behind the back of the head, it's a doorway, it's an access way into being mode versus doing mode.

52:51Coming up, Linda talks about even more ways, very practical ways to regulate your nervous system and boost your resiliency.

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55:48Let me stay with looking to the horizon for a second. My understanding is this is something you would recommend that we do in any moment of activation or stress throughout the day, not just when you wake up. Can you say a little bit more about that? Sure. We have the ancient architecture of humans on the savannah. And so we are used to looking at the horizon all day long. And in that way, we notice if a threat or a danger comes. And when we're looking at something in front of us, it's something that we're engaging in for now, and yet we're always looking up, scanning the horizon. We live in a world that has narrowed our focus right in to the point that we lose focus.

56:38We need to stop and smell the roses because we become so focused in that we lose focus of the bigger picture. And so throughout the day, when you notice yourself that you've started to get into tunnel vision, you've clenched your jaw, that there's constriction or tightness in the area at the back of the neck, in the shoulder area, orienting to the horizon will help to release that tension that's there in your body. And then as you orient to the horizon, you might actually notice your head gently turning from side to side. And as you do that, the phrenic nerve, which goes through cervical vertebrae three, four, and five, you know, it starts to move five times more slowly, Dan.

57:22She's commenting on the fact that I'm trying what she's recommending, that I'm doing in my typical squirrel on Adderall mode too quickly. And as you do that nice and slowly, notice how a breath naturally emerges. So the phrenic nerve, which goes through cervical vertebrae 3, 4, and 5, directly connects to the diaphragm and innervates or moves the diaphragm. So when we're in a peritrauma response, the diaphragm starts to constrict because it's actually a core stabilizer muscle that mobilizes us towards being able to stand our ground, towards being able to get things done. And so this moving the head from side to side will cause the diaphragm to move and then a breath naturally emerges.

58:11If you are still small and quiet, that's a survival response in nature. And yet that's also what happens when we start to get really focused in on something, like as if it's life or death. And so this orienting to the big picture through the horizon, turning the head from side to side, it brings us into the best parts of ourselves. We have more capacity for creativity, for connection, for curiosity. I had Ezra Klein on the show recently, the writer for the New York Times, the opinion writer and host of the Ezra Klein podcast. He said something that he wasn't sure is correct. And he stated that to his credit.

58:53And so actually, you may be the person to see if it's correct. He said that he had heard or he thought he had heard somebody say that if you're looking at your phone too much as a way to gather information, you are in this tunnel vision mode, which can make the integration of the information much harder because your nervous system is activated. Whereas if you You actually like read things on paper, like a newspaper or a book, or you print things out and you sit at a table and read it. And occasionally, quite naturally, when you're in that mode, you'll look up and look around. Then it's a much more effective way to learn.

59:30Is he right about that? Yes, because we don't learn just through our eyes. We learn through our bodies. we learn through the sensorial connections between the top half of the body and the bottom half of the body and the left side of the body and the right side of the body and the full visual field that then ignites the top and the bottom of the brain and the left and the right side of the brain and the front and the back of the brain. And then this is how we encode things deeper into our memory systems. And yet we live in a dopamine-driven society with a dopamine-driven and education system run by algorithms that are on a race for our brain stems.

1:00:13The way you put it. Yeah, I agree with you. But it does feel either parasitic or like a prey animal hunting us all the time. I do want to go back, staying on the practical tip here. You talked before about how we're activating the phrenic nerve or whatever, but when we look side to side, slower than I normally do. that it can provoke a deep breath. And that just gets me wondering, what about starting with deep breathing as a way to reset the nervous system? Is there something to say on that score? That can also be helpful. However, that can also be a way of overriding the nervous system. So it's a both and.

1:00:52Yeah, it can be a way to reset. And for some of us, we don't have access to deep breath. And so for some of us, when we try on the big deep breath, our diaphragms are so tight and constricted that the big, deep breathing can actually cause for us to experience even more anxiety. And so I love, for example, Dr. Andrew Weill's 478 breathing. It's incredible. What is that and how do we do it? Oh, thank you. Thank you for this clarity. So it's 478 breathing. It's breathe in for a count of four, hold the breath for a count of seven, and exhale out the mouth slowly for a count of eight and do it four times.

1:01:36When I worked in addiction recovery, we actually did it six times because that's what people said they needed in order to feel the reset effects of that particular breathing technique. I used it for a long time. I taught it for a long time in early addiction recovery, incredible benefits. And yet for some of the folks in the room, the breath holding part of it would cause their nervous system to increase in terms of the felt sense of anxiety and distress. And so I find the looking to the horizon as something that is more accessible to more nervous system types. Well, how does somebody know whether they're a good candidate for deep breathing or a bad candidate?

1:02:22it? Try it on. Yeah, there's research and then there's research. Yeah, learning from your own experience. It's very, very useful. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. A hundred percent. Another entry on your list is something you call completing the stress response cycle. You suggest that we do this multiple times a day. What does that mean, completing the stress response cycle? Three minutes of high intensity exercise that uses the entirety of the body, particularly the deep core muscles, as well as the arms and the legs, that will metabolize stress hormones. And it also completes the stress response cycle.

1:03:05So say, for example, I have a big keynote speech and I need to mobilize. And in service of mobilization, My brain pumps my body full of adrenaline. And then my body is like, okay, let's go run the run. Like, let's run. Let's fight. Let's nail this. However, I need to stand my ground and deliver something that's on point. And so then there's a loop. There's a loop that isn't being completed. What I do backstage is I will actually do push-ups and jumping jacks and burpees so that my body gets to complete some of that stress response. and then I get up on stage and I do my keynote. For others of us, we're experiencing stress throughout the day, and we need a third space where we can complete the stress response, or we can do it in the office before we leave the office so that we metabolize all of those stress hormones.

1:04:01And then we can go home and be with our family, our friends, go and engage with people with more expansiveness that's available in our nervous systems and in our bodies and in our relational systems. As a trauma therapist, I do this with my clients, right? The last three minutes of our session time, like let's just move the body together. Let's get the body systems back online and let's complete that stress response cycle. So if I wanted to try this for myself, a set of timer for three minutes and do some push-ups or burpees. Burpees are hard. I like them, but they're hard. You're not overly prescriptive about what it is we do, but jumping jacks, burpees, squat jumps, whatever it is that's using the full body, getting it going three minutes.

1:04:52Bob's your uncle. Yes. Yes. Shovel snow, dig a hole, push a wheelbarrow. I have sandbags in my office. We do like, you know, sandbag exercises, pushing, pulling, lifting, carrying. You know, I go to the gym every day and I'm still an asshole sometimes. Yeah. There's no panacea here. These are just, you're just reducing the likelihood that you're going to be mean to yourself or others. Yes. So think of asshole as not binary. Think of it as the sliding, the dimmer switch, right? And I know that people in your life don't want to hear it, that you're less of an asshole today than usual because you went to the gym.

1:05:39But it does keep that part of ourselves in check. Another technique you recommend for everyday resilience or for working with your nervous system. I'm not quite sure what you mean by this, but you say squeeze inwards and press outwards against imaginary walls. Can you talk about that, please? For sure. So some of us, we become still small, quiet, and then we become immobilized. Yeah. And so to actually squeeze all the way in, let yourself be really small, let yourself crick in the backside of the neck, and then push outwards against imaginary walls that are pushing in against you. Wow. That's making sounds, perhaps not.

1:06:23And they're releasing and you start laughing, right? So now your social engagement system, which is an indicator of eventual Vegas, is back online. And you can do that squeeze in and push against an imaginary ceiling that's pushing down against you. And then you can squeeze up and in and push against an imaginary wall that's coming to you from the front. If people were watching this on YouTube, they got it. But if they're listening on Spotify or wherever they get their podcasts, they might not have fully understood that. But essentially what Linda did was in terms of squeezing inwards, she basically just squeezed all of her energy and like made herself as small as possible, squinched her face.

1:07:05You're basically squeezing inwards, pulling your diaphragm in your neck down toward your shoulders. And then you let go of that and push out against imaginary walls at your side in front of you from above. and you can growl if you want or not, depending on where your slider switch is on, your dimmer switch is on embarrassability, or I know that's not a word. This does what for us? This also completes the stress response cycle in a way because we're actually letting ourselves get into the very small with a lot of pent up energy while really small. Yeah. And then we are pushing, pushing, pushing out or pushing upwards or pushing forwards with all of our strength and our might and reconnecting to how strong we are.

1:07:58And that then completes the freeze response that says, be still, be small, be quiet with all that pent up energy. And we're actually then taking up space. So that's also another way of completing the stress response because we're completing the defensive response, completing the protective response of establishing our peripersonal space. And the growl for some of us can also be the re-establishing of our space. And it can also be the completion of a protective or defensive response, right? The primal of the fight that is not acceptable for us to do to our bosses. It's not acceptable, right, to bite someone's head off.

1:08:44However, that primal urge can actually be there inside of ourselves and to allow ourselves to complete that or finish that. Another way of doing that, which I do sometimes because I have a very strong fight part, is I have a mouth guard and I will pop that mouth guard in and I will grind my teeth and do the flaring of the nostrils and the primal response so that my body can actually feel that my body got to complete something rather than me needing to continue to override and override and override that response. Eventually it comes out, right, towards the gas station attendant or a snarky response towards someone or it eventually comes out.

1:09:30So we can find ways to complete the stress response in ways that can be very effective for each of us. What about shouting into a pillow? Yes, that can also be really helpful. Yeah, truly. Yeah, I believe you. Yeah, this is the me search, right? Like to actually get curious about the thing that is helpful for you. I had a partner once, we would growl at each other because we would fight over stupid stuff. Like you didn't do the dishes and you didn't take the trash out. And, you know, it was just a bioaccumulation of each of our stresses from throughout the day. And then we would start to attack each other.

1:10:10And it was actually never about the housework, right? And so eventually we just stood there and we would make growling sounds and hulk body shapes. And, you know, eventually we'd start laughing. But it was just a way of moving that energy through so that we could actually really get that, yeah, it wasn't about the chores. The final entry on your list of practical ways to regulate the nervous system, boost your resiliency, the final entry is remember to remember. What do you mean by that? Remember to remember that this isn't life or death, even though it feels like life or death. Remember to remember, I'll pause there because for some of us, once we actually get hijacked by the stress response system, it may actually feel like it's life or death.

1:11:01And remember to remember that, yeah? And then remember your resources. Remember that you are tethered into something larger, which can be a more expansive conceptualization and felt experience of what it means to be human, this connection to nature, this connection to the horizon, this connection to ancestors, connection to professional ancestors, activist ancestors, lineage of teachers, teachers of their teachers, that you're tethered into something so much larger and more expansive. Remember to remember your resources, the people that you can ask for help, the places where you can go and find the answers that you're seeking.

1:11:54Yeah, and I noticed that as I'm saying this, your body starts to sway from side to side, right? This is your body's innate wisdom, Dan, because when the vestibular system is online, the limbic brain, the fight-flight-freeze vehemently emotional part of the brain is offline. Yeah. So as I'm actually talking to you about remembering to remember all of these things, your body starts to do something that is a reconnection to a deeper wisdom. I buy that. I think that our culture has, in a macro and micro sense, like just a culture-wide separation anxiety. We just feel alone. whether we're technically lonely or not, because the way we live is counter-evolutionary.

1:12:43And so anytime we can be reminded of our essential embeddedness, yeah, you sway a little bit. Yeah. And the body feels good when it sways, right? We have been stripped of so much culturally. dance, movement, the practices of Tai Chi, of gardening, of walking, of forest bathing, of orienting to the bigger world around us through song, through ritual, through community. and yet all of these are protective factors against aloneness and sociologists have actually studied what comes first, aloneness or depression. Do you get depressed and then you start to isolate and become more alone or does the aloneness come first and then we get depressed as a result of how alone we are?

1:13:44And sociologists have actually discovered that it's actually the aloneness that's the precursor to depression. For me, that really indicates the ways in which the systems in which we live give rise to the distress that we experience that then gets labelled as anxiety, depression, existential malaise, adjustment disorder. and they really are terms that describe the lack of community that has become systemic and structural. And if we can pause to remember to remember, then we can pause to reconnect to our capacities and abilities to do something about that. Linda, you've done a great job here. I'm going to ask you the two questions I ask traditionally and habitually at the end of the show.

1:14:45The first is, is there anything you were hoping to get to that we didn't get to? The one message I'd like to come across is that your nervous system is actually responding in an appropriate way to the environment for the majority of the time. There's nothing wrong with you that you're feeling stress or distress. There's nothing wrong with you if you're feeling overwhelmed or manic or frantic. It's that pause to take into account the reality of the systems within which we live to actually name that this is an appropriate response. And then if we name the context of your life, then it can actually make even more sense that your body is responding in a way that may not make sense to other people, however, makes sense given what you have survived or lived through.

1:15:38Right. I think we tend to pathologize stress. As if it's somehow our fault. Yeah. And it's not. It's not. It's not our fault, but it is our responsibility in some ways. And there are things we can do to manage and you've given us a number of them. Absolutely. Final question for you is if people want to learn more about you or from you, where can they go? What kind of resources have you put out that we should know about? If you head over to linda-tai.com, L-I-N-D-A-T-H-A-I.com, you'll see my upcoming events. You'll see the courses that I have available for people to learn more about the nervous system and the intersection of one's childhood and how that then shapes our nervous system in such a way that makes sense for us, given the context of our lives, but may perhaps get in the way of our ability to be optimal in terms of the relationships in our own lives.

1:16:32Great pleasure to meet you. Thank you for doing this. Really appreciate it. Thank you, Dan. And thank you for continuing to rein me back in towards the very nuts and bolts practical of things. I appreciate you very much. You may have felt reined in, but it didn't feel like work on my side. I've had guests who required a lot more care and feeding than you. So don't worry about it. Yeah, no, you're an absolute pleasure. Please keep doing the work that you're doing out there in the world. Please know that you make a difference and that who you are is more than enough. You don't have to do it all.

1:17:04there are others who are also out there making a difference to the world in our own ways. Thank you, Linda.

1:17:15Thanks again to Linda Tide. We've got a guided meditation that will help you reset your nervous system that is customized for this episode. And it comes from the great meditation teacher, Vinnie Ferraro, who's our Teacher of the Month over at danharris.com. If you sign up at danharris.com, You can get access to all of our custom guided meditations that come with our Monday, Wednesday episodes. You also get access to weekly live meditation and Q &A sessions. The next one is tomorrow, Tuesday, September 9th at 4 Eastern. Henceforth, we're going to be doing these on Tuesdays at 4 Eastern. So the next one is Tuesday, September 9th at 4 Eastern.

1:17:51That's with Vinny Solo. I'll do Solo the next week. Also, don't forget about the upcoming IRL events I'm doing. one at the New York Insight Meditation Center on September 21st, and the other at Omega Institute the weekend of October 24th. Links are in the show notes. Finally, thank you so much to everybody who worked so hard on the show. Our producers are Tara Anderson, Caroline Keenan, and Eleanor Vasili. Our recording and engineering is handled by the great folks over at Pod People. Lauren Smith is our managing producer. Marissa Schneiderman is our senior producer. DJ Kashmir is our executive producer.

1:18:23And Nick Thorburn of the band Islands wrote our theme. Thank you.

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