Resetting Your Nervous System When You're Anxious, Hurting, or Just Powering Through | Johanna Franzel

29:04But this technique, which many of us have heard before, but maybe haven't actually done, is, it seems to me, a great way in moments of psychological stress where you're in your head, you're spinning out on something to like pull you out of that because you are actually, I mean, not from a, on a brain level, I think you are moving in these moments from the amygdala, the fear center to the prefrontal cortex, the more rational part of the brain. And I've had this experience, you know, I've done a lot of work with exposure therapy because I have panic disorder and elevators and airplanes can be a nightmare.

29:42And, and my exposure therapist will, you know, in moments where we're in an elevator together, be like, yeah, just what does it feel like to breathe right now without even controlling the breath? Like, can you just tune into that. And it's very hard to be making fretful projections when you're feeling your breath. And I love that you brought in that prefrontal cortex piece, because, you know, part of what we're doing in that moment, too, is cultivating the kind of kind observer, right? Like the sort of neutral ally, that kind of third space, you know, it's not you or me, but it is that kind of witness that is here that is not scrutinizing, let's say, but that is like, oh, yeah, as you're doing.

30:24Like, what is it like to breathe right now? Because if you're tracking that, it's harder to be in the spin of everything else, right? Or in that amygdala space. I want to pick up on the kind observer or the presence without scrutiny, but there is a third step in the inventory and that's the invent part of the inventory. That's right. So from here, I mean, this is kind of a sneaky way to start to get at your resources, you know, rather than like, just make a list of what you enjoy. Like, what are five things that you love to see and they do not have to be in this room rosy you know the peonies what are four things so we use the same that we're counting down what are four things and again not big on rules so it might be more four things you love to touch you know three things you love to smell and so you're starting to kind of open up or fire your brain in these places in these senses that are real sweetness for you.

31:19And so we're getting to know, like in a very specific way for you, what brings you alive. I realize that's kind of a cheesy term, but like, you know, your particular precise geometry of what enlivens you. And that is a great catalog to keep with you. We can't have too many things that we love and then make it easier to walk around. This is random, but you were talking about how you like to eat and then, you know, maybe not just do one thing you can taste. I have an adorable nephew, Benjamin. And when he was a little boy, very little boy, he went through a period of time where he would walk around and always ask the question, is this edible?

32:04Oh my God. Benjamin's a genius. Yes. I mentioned it to him the other day. I saw And he didn't he had only a vague, faint memory of it. But I have very, very in fact, maybe that memory is a resource for me. I mean, it feels like it. I mean, it's so sweet. And it's it's it's it's triggering one for me of my daughter, who's now 16. But when she was little and she would have a really good meal, she would say, my belly is full, but my tongue is tasting for more. Yeah, yeah. I'm just like, oh, girl, tell it. Like, yes, that feeling of like, oh, I'm so full, but please, please more of this. Support for today's episode comes from Square.

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35:09I've been very open about the fact that I come by my specific money neuroses, honestly. So I've found some tools that have really helped me reorient to my personal finances in a healthier and sane way. So I'm passing on better lessons to my own son. And one tool that is really helpful is something called Monarch, which does many, many things. But one of the things that it does that I really like is put all of your financial information in one place. So if I'm spiraling for one reason or another, I can just look at this dashboard and get a clear sense of what's going on. And very often it just calms my nervous system.

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36:28Okay, so let's come back to something else you said, because somewhere in this discussion of the practice of taking inventory, which I think we've now fully provided for folks, you talked about something called presence without scrutiny. And I wanted to come back to that to understand what exactly you're pointing at. Yeah, I mean, that ties a little bit back to what we were working on with spaciousness, that kind of kind observer, that sort of wide angle. I am not here to stare you down. I'm not here to ask you to explain why you're so messed up or why you're so sick. I'm here to actually, you know, be present in a way that is open to whatever shows up here.

37:11This might be a moment to make a turn to talk a little bit about some of the practices, too, because there's two principles that really tie into this. So the book is called Write Yourself Home. The idea is embodied writing, but for folks who aren't writers, you certainly wouldn't have to follow that particular stream. but there are two principles we start every workshop or session with. And the first is reverence. And the metaphor I usually use when I talk about reverence is like, if you were staring at a newborn or Benjamin, you know, when he's just born, you're not like, her eyelashes could be longer.

37:47You're like, wow, right? Like, look, that's incredible. Like, she's amazing. Like, There's nothing corrective about that lens. And so when we're doing the writing, if we choose to, we're really bringing that spirit of reverence to it. But the other principle is permission. And that is, you know, the idea is that there isn't a barometer outside of yourself, you know? So if you hear a prompt or an inquiry or a question and you're like, that's not for me or I want it to be different. Or if you're like, what I really want to do is eat chocolate in the corner. then chef's kiss. That's the idea. We could also call it irreverence, right?

38:27We don't have to take it too seriously. So to me, there's a kind of like, we get a really nice range when we bring these in. And that to me is part of that presence without scrutiny. Like I can bring a reverent attention to whatever comes here. And I can also be spacious and like not get up in your face. And there can be tremendous permission for what comes through. And so that might be a different way to kind of invoke that same spirit. Does that feel like it answers the question, Dan? I think what you're saying, and I want to come back to embodied writing in a second, but I think what you're saying about presence without scrutiny is that as soon as we can relax our nervous system a little bit, we're more available to whatever is going on, either internally for ourselves or for whoever may be crossing our paths.

39:15Is that close? That's right. And it feels better to boot. Yes, even while we were sitting here, I noticed my hamstrings are tight. And so I just like put my leg out straight and shifted my foot back and did that for 20 seconds on each side. And like my body feels better sitting in the chair. It's such a small move, but it's a move from withstanding or numbing out or I'm fine with air quotes to like, actually, what are the accommodations I actually need to make for myself so that it's easier to show up here more fully? and and as i do that it's it's easier to be more present i get kinder voices that show up i find more creative solutions to things um because because i'm working less hard and i feel more supported so there's a whole practice around this specifically which is like making little adjustments you've used this phrase several times so you aren't withstanding i think you mean by that Like we kind of white knuckle it through life and sometimes in very small ways that have real consequences.

40:22But maybe the old me would have just sat here in a low grade pain, which would have made me less available to you. But you have a whole practice in the book around being on the lookout for withstanding and then easing things up. I can't remember the name of the practice, but maybe you can tell us about it. Yeah, yeah. Beautiful. I mean, and you're following the sequence really beautifully. too, Dan, because, you know, like we start with resource. We start with getting to know what good feels like here. And so we have like an expanded capacity of noticing internally. And as we do that, you know, we feel better, but good news, bad news, we also have a better capacity to feel, which means that, you know, some of those places where we would have been like, it's fine, I don't need to.

41:07So what I've been buying pants that are too small for three years, or that my hamstrings are screaming right now. And so, you know, this kind of like pause to notice, it's a little bit like, is it possible to work less hard? But also what are real adjustments that we can make in present time? Which don't sound like, you know, groundbreaking, but in the same way, you know, that meditation is like, it's a practice that feeds itself over time. You know, we see the benefits the more we practice. We start to incubate this more attuned capacity to listen to what's happening in our body, and it pays dividends.

41:47There's, you know, I mentioned this in the book, but I grew up a couple blocks from Boston Harbor. My dad ran a sailing center there. He's also a competitive sailor, so all vacations such as they were were on sailboats and very analog. Like he's got the chart down below and he's calling up for me to follow a compass heading, like an old-fashioned compass. And so very early on, I learned that the difference of a single degree might seem minuscule, but you follow that out over miles, you end up someplace totally different. And I think that's more how nervous system works. It's not like we're hummingbird fast.

42:24It's more like the barge. These small practices we incubate here, we follow them out over time. we have a more habitable life. And so this practice of withstanding, similarly, it's not like me loosening my belt is a revolution, but then down the road, I'm not sleeping at the wheel of my own life. And what I notice with a lot of folks that I've worked with is, and I'll be curious if this tracks with your own experience, healing such as it is, I don't love that term, which we might get into, we could call it growth, is less like I cross the finish line with this triumphant ribbon breaking across my chest and more like whatever I could summon to be okay with things that weren't okay, I no longer can.

43:11It's almost like growth by fatigue. As we are more attuned and we're more awake to what's here, it's like, shit, I was doing all this withstanding or accommodating. And I can't pretend that this thing that was okay is. I can't even dress it up. So in this way, I could imagine it starts small, like I'm a little bit more attuned to what's happening in my body. So I'm unbuttoning my top button or loosening my belt or buying new pants or stretching my hamstrings or shifting in my seat, whatever it is required to not withstand so that I can be more available to myself and other people so I can be more relaxed and happy and in in this body and in this mind that those small seemingly small things can lead to oh yeah I should quit this fucking job or I'm in a bad relationship or whatever yes I really think they can and and you know I think one of the misguided ideas were sold is that that sort of attunement would make us more selfish.

44:16In fact, I think it makes us a lot more generous because we're really showing up here and we're really learning how to meet our own needs. And so, we actually are more available to be attuned to what else is happening in the room and more interested in collective feeling better. There's a different availability that is not just, It's the opposite of navel gazing. It's like, you know, because I've shown up here fully, as fully as I can, I'm really here and excited about what is happening for you. I talk about this a lot. This is a huge theme in my next book of of of how self-love properly understood, not as like bath bombs and incense, although that's your thing, go for it.

44:59But self-love like really is like having the same warmth towards yourself that you would have toward Ozzy or Rosie that can unlock an upward spiral because you are more available for other people. And since other people, in other words, relationships are the most potent variable in human flourishing, you then get happier, your relationships get better and up you go. So it's not a perpetual thing, but it's more like this kind of, you know, I would bracket what we're talking about here today under like my understanding of self-love, just like having a warm, supportive relationship to yourself can have really profound ramifications, starting at unbuttoning your top button on your pants.

45:47Totally. Yeah, exactly. I'm excited about your book. Yeah, that there's a chapter in my book called Full of Yourself. It's sort of about that, you know, that idea, especially, you know, as a young girl coming up, like the worst thing you could be was full of yourself. I mean, you could be a lot of terrible things, really, in patriarchy, but, you know, how much what you're talking about with self-love upends that. Actually, the idea is, please fill up with yourself. Be so full that you upgrade every relational field you walk into and cultivate because you are resourced enough to really attend to what's happening.

46:28Let's go back to embodied writing. Again, your book is called Writing Yourself Home. And my understanding is much of what you're doing is taking these practices, some of which we've already described, including taking inventory and adding a really quick two-minute writing prompt on top of it. And as you said earlier, like, you don't have to do the writing part if you're like me and like not into writing prompts. You can just do the intellectual and somatic exercise. But just say a little bit more about embodied writing. So for me, writing is a potency. I love writing and I know not everyone does.

47:11And so I feel like it's important to say off the top exactly what you just shared, Dan, that we come back to permission, right? Like, if you're not a writer, then there's still a lot in here that is rich inquiry into, you know, the intelligence beneath cognition. I also think for a lot of us, writing is so twizzled up with judgment that really shuts down creative discovery. And so for me, it's really a wide open invitation to write very freely. Exactly. Could be for two minutes, could be for five, could be not at all. But the chapters are very short. The prompts are very accessible. It is not diary writing.

47:50It really does start with a body. So, you know, every practice begins with a way of getting into the body or a meditation or a visualization or a breath exercise. They are really designed to be very accessible and digestible. It sort of moves through six parts and the writing can be nice because you have kind of a record of, oh, how is my relational, inner relational field deepening, for example? Like, what have I noticed about what I'm shouldering or what matters to me? It is really a kind of invitation to live well in the body you have. And that can be anybody, I would say. I come to it, of course, from chronic illness, but most of the people I work with don't.

48:28And if we're earthside, we have bodies and they're complicated and we know pain and we know hurt and we're managing. And so the idea is these are tools to make that easier. So let's talk about some of the specific tools. There are a few others that I think are worth talking about. One of them is called Museum of Follies. What is that about? I went to a sangha. I went to Green Gulch for a week as a 22-year-old farm volunteer, and I didn't know how to properly tie these hippie pants and flash the entire sangha. Things that were very, oh my God, I can't believe I did that. So Museum of Follies is sort of like an invitation to bring that like very loose, absolutely not blaming lightness to like get into your body, you know, breathe gently and just kind of like survey the ridiculousness of life.

49:17It could be a museum and what would it look like? Like if you wrote the, what do you call those, like the little tabs that go by the exhibits, you know, how would you describe particular medications or things that you did or your sister's lipstick that you absolutely ruined or the terrible music and dances, you know, whatever shows up here. The idea is really not to bring over seriousness. I'm a great fan of range. You know, we can be talking about the pains and traumas and we can also be talking about flashing the sangha and getting hit in the face by a flying fish, which has also happened. What is the use case for this practice of Museum of Follies?

49:56Like what at what moment would one want to do this? I really like humor. It can be a kind of way to break through my own brittle seriousness. So, you know, I think if particularly, you know, we've all had those days where like, oh my God, like this, I can't believe how many things have gone wrong today. And so like in moments like that, where there's like a forehead slapping, like, look at this guy, this thing and this thing happened and sort of to be able to catalog in a way that brings some levity to what we've endured even. So on a day where you're feeling regret and maybe even shame for something to leaven and aerate the situation by bringing to mind past follies and like the unavoidable conclusion has to be you survive those, you'll survive this.

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52:03There's another practice called inner friend. What's that about? Inner friend is sort of a thread through the entire book. You know, that cultivation of the voice that isn't just the asshole. And so it surfaces at a lot of different moments. But we were talking about full of yourself. You know, this invitation to sort of like be the adult to your younger self, like the friend that is able to be like, Dan, fill up with yourself. Like, what does a day look like in which you are full to brimming? Like your 14-year-old self, your 26-year-old self, your current day self, you know, to have that part of you that's an advocate for you or that's on your side, you know, that shows up and companions you in these spaces.

52:49I will say it feels worth mentioning you know like at the one of the last scenes in the book is the last time I was hospitalized for a significant amount of time was in 2019 I'd been doing these embodied writing practices for at least a decade at that point and the curtain pulled back and my roommate because you share hospital rooms like turned to my husband and was like your wife really knows how to advocate for herself in here and I had no idea that somebody had been watching all of my interactions. But she was like, yeah, she's really not getting pushed around. She's not a jerk, but she really knows how to speak up.

53:26And it was this interesting moment because I was deeply indebted to and respectful with all of the people who were keeping me alive. But when the doctor was like, you're not in pain anymore, so we're going to cut off your pain meds, I was like, that's simply not true. Or when they were like, the guy in the seventh floor has crones and he's doing all better and you're not. I was like, true enough, I am not. You know, so I just, I had that inner friend piece was, was present in just being able to name like, I hear you and respect you, but let me name what's also here. Because there was just a capacity, an enlarged capacity to inhabit from the inside.

54:04And so that's another expression. I find this piece to be incredibly powerful. And there's, there's a bunch of research here That we spend most of our time with an inner narrator who's muttering under his breath or her breath and, you know, critiquing and judging and wanting to be elsewhere or otherwise or whatever. It's mostly the voice in my head is an asshole. And yet there is a way, and again, a lot of evidence here, work done by Kristen Neff and Ethan Cross in particular, that you can cultivate a kind of best friend internally who's just kind of coaching you throughout your day. Not not self-indulgent letting you off the hook because that wouldn't be actually in your interest.

54:49Really, like the the wisest part of you who is available in moments when somebody asks you for advice, for example, is just with you all the time. I find this super compelling. It is something that I work on personally for people listening to this and agree. Yeah, that sounds interesting, but I don't know how to get there. What would you recommend? It might sound like a small move, but that resource piece, like just getting to know what good feels like from the inside, I mean, it sounds like so microscopic. And certainly the mind could be like, come on, buddy, you're wasting our time. Like, I want a to-do list of how to find this inner friend.

55:27but I but we are creating more fluidity we're creating more of an updated version of who we are and we we're creating a different kind of self-trust right and so this like cultivation of self-trust can also I don't know if safety is the right word to use here Dan but a sense of I've got my back I'm in here and there's no finish line like every day I'm doing the best I can But I am cultivating a different relationship with these voices that are actually very much advocating for me and, you know, supporting me. Yeah. So I think what you're saying is this is a practice. Like it takes it takes a while to to rewire your inner talk track like that's no small thing.

56:14And you can start really small by just noticing the next time you're really uncomfortable or really unhappy and bringing to mind your version of Ozzy with his large belly and fish breath and seeing how that relaxes the nervous system. This can build on itself in a cumulative way where you start to have a more supportive inner environment over time. And there's an example in the book of a client that I work with called Agatha, who's a healthcare practitioner, and she was feeling really crappy, and she just felt like she wasn't getting anything done. And because the session was online, I was like, well, can you just go take your medication now?

56:56And she did. And I was like, oh, you know, good job. And she was like, good job for a glass of water? Like, what the hell? Like, am I your child? And I didn't realize until she and I love her. She's salty and wonderful. And I didn't realize until that moment that that actually I talk to myself more that way now. I mean, that's that's part of the practice, too, is like we're building that bodied sense. We can start right now. But like, you can hear you, buddy. So we might as well like recruit a voice that's like, oh, this is really hard for you today. You you do not like the situation. You took your medication and you didn't want to.

57:35Good job. I can feel myself moving in that direction personally, too. And it's taken a lot of work. Just it started in like moments of real acute suffering and using those moments, an alarm bell to pop myself off the ledge, put my hand on my heart as Kristen Neff, the godmother of self-compassion would recommend. And if that sounds disgusting and embarrassing to you, I get it because that's the way it sounded to me. But a lot of evidence to show it works, not only in the research, but also in my own personal experience. But then moving toward just kind of having a daily companion that is just kind of with me the way I would be with my son when we spend the day together.

58:13And that is super helpful. I forget all the time and that's fine. It's a much more easeful way to live when I can remember to do it. What does it sound like when that voice shows up? The thing I find myself saying to myself all the time is you're good, bro. Like, you know, like, yes, you just did this stupid fucking thing in a meeting and you're worried that everybody's going to think you're a bad person, whatever. But like, you're good. You can apologize. And even if everybody quits because they hate you, it'll be what it is. And you'll start from there. I love that. And I love that you call yourself bro.

58:49So that's the only way I can do this shit is like to just make it slightly less embarrassing. Totally hear you. Totally hear you. Yeah. Yeah, bro.

59:01You said something earlier that I do. I want to come back to. It now feels like the appropriate moment to do it. You don't love the word healing. Why? Why not? Again, a context is having lived with a chronic illness for almost 25 years. And so that treadmill of like, I just have to get better. I just have to get better. I just have to fix myself can be an excruciation. I also think it's not that healing isn't meaningful, but it's so braided with the idea of fixing. And I actually love the word fix in English because it's like it transparently shows us what it is, right? Because to fix is to repair, but it's also to like lock in place.

59:45but if something moves it's alive movement is the signature of life and so in a lot of ways like to fix something is to make it less alive in a lot of ways that i think about these practices is is it's like how do we unfix ourselves you know like how do we become more fluid more permissive kinder so that we're not just trying to like i i have figured it out it's in a steel box Now I'm okay. Because speaking from a body that definitely is often not okay, that frame can feel kind of cruel. And even in terms of healing, we can also have this idea of like, you'll be good once you're different than who you are now.

1:00:26And so instead, how do we cultivate? Our strategies got us here, right, Dan? And so instead, how is there enough safety or permission or support so that I get to make different choices? I don't have to lose the old strategies, but I get to open up what's possible for me. And that to me too is a way of becoming unfixed. So I realize I'm playing a little bit semantically, but I hope I'm conveying. I just feel like people, sometimes I've been asked, oh, are you healed? And it's like, I mean, there are flares and then there are not flares. And that will be the cycle till I'm till I'm out of here. And so if I get too attached to it's good now, then it's punishing when it's not.

1:01:10And you said before that maybe you preferred the word growth because I can see how that would work. You aren't healed from chronic illness. I'm not healed from chronic anxiety. I hope this never happens, but you may end up back in the hospital. I may have another panic attack or, you know, have to go back on a standing dose of Klonopin or whatever it is because I've had some sort of setback. Growth can cover that. Like you were in the hospital in 2019 and you were advocating for yourself in ways you had never advocated for yourself before. So there was on some level a setback in your quote unquote healing, but unquestionably also a progression in your growth.

1:01:55I'm so glad you clocked that. And it's really interesting because, you know, I've been hospitalized plenty of times, but in 2008, I was so ashamed. I told, I mean, my partner and my best friends, but I didn't tell anyone. I didn't tell my parents. I didn't tell family. It was just like, it felt so, and I don't know if you've had this experience, that shame piece is, right? I mean, it's, I want to swear a lot here, Dan. I know we're allowed to. It feels uncomfortable. and so it was it was wild to then you know fast forward 11 years and and I told everybody and I leaned on them and they showed up in ways and so that inner friend who was like yeah this this version of health and like you're saying with anxiety like that is present so is so is Ozzy so is Benjamin you know so are all these beautiful things that you've built in your life right alongside.

1:02:47And those are not, again, side quests. Those are the main event. I think this comes back to the writing too, because there's a way in which you are unfixing yourself through the writing and telling a different story. And also just by the fact that you're telling a story, leaning in consciously or subconsciously to the fact that things are always changing all the time. That's why we can have stories. Language is a support to constantly be updating and reframing, you know, how I describe this unfolding life, which for me is a written practice. But again, not for everybody. That really helps me kind of deepen into and explore, you know, whatever this growth that is absolutely not linear looks like.

1:03:33Two questions I always ask as we're vectoring toward the close of our time together. The first is, is there something you were hoping we would get to that we haven't? I think we did a great job of covering a lot of bases. Yeah, my hope is that these practices are a support to anyone who needs them. And I think we've talked about that in a lot of different ways. So I don't think so. So final question is, can you just remind everybody of the name of your book and anything else we should know about you that you're putting out into the world? Thanks. Yeah, the book is Write Yourself Home. It's a creative guide for living well in the body you have with embodied writing and movement practice.

1:04:13It's a very long subtitle. You can find me at my website. And I love teaching this material and sharing this material. It's a total great joy for me. So I'm just incredibly grateful to talk with you today about it and to share it with folks. Johanna Franzel, thank you very much. Great job. Thanks so much, Dan. Great to be with you. Thank you so much to everybody who worked so hard to make this show. 10 % Happier is produced by Tara Anderson and Eleanor Vasili. Our recording and engineering is handled by the great folks over at Pod People. Lauren Smith is our managing producer. Marissa Schneiderman is our senior producer.

1:04:50DJ Kashmir is our executive producer. and Nick Thorburn of the band Islands wrote our theme. Also, one last thing before I let you go. Our Summer Sunday Live series is officially underway every Sunday at 4 Eastern. You can join the legendary meditation teacher, Sharon Salzberg, for a deep dive into the Buddha's cookbook for happiness, The Eightfold Path. You can catch up on replays if you've already missed a few of the sessions, and you can join the next live meditation and Q &A only on the 10 % with Dan Harris app. Go to danharris.com to start your free trial.

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