Rewire How You Talk To Yourself | Ofosu Jones-Quartey

27:33Wisdom and compassion. Wisdom and compassion are inextricable. They are deeply interrelated, but on their own, they address the two natures of reality that are happening simultaneously. There is the wisdom addresses the ultimate reality. And again, this is from my understanding of Buddhist practice in practicing in multiple traditions. Wisdom addresses the ultimate nature of our reality, which is interdependence, interconnectedness or anatta, non-self, that there's no enduring self-nature to anything and anyone. But compassion addresses the on the ground reality that each one of us is experiencing, which is that, yeah, I mean, I've got a name and I've got a history and I've got experiences.

28:28And when I act, there are consequences and that's my conventional reality. So if we really want to address reality as it is in totality, we have to have wisdom and compassion. We have to be able to have our head in the clouds or in the sky and our feet on the ground at the same time. One of the ways I like to think about this is that we want to be so thoroughly clear in our relationship with ourselves that we can then get to the point of transcendence. And by clarity, I mean, knowing what's there and healing what hurts and healing what's been harmed, reconciling the issues that we have within ourselves.

29:20I mean, I think compassion can do all of that. I think we are practicing self-compassion so that there's nothing unsaid within the self. That even the shadow that Jung talks about, that the shadow has come into the light, that we are no longer a scary mystery to ourselves. We've gone in and we've taken care of what's there. We've offered light and healing and love to what's there. And now we can begin to let it go. You know, now we can begin to have a more free and open relationship with whatever is there, with this flow of phenomena we call the self. But when the self is sticky and full of injury, I mean, it's a self.

30:04It's as self as self can be, you know. And so self-compassion, like any other practice, is aimed to help us get to the other shore. It's aimed to help us get to the end of suffering and aimed to help us overcome the illusion of separateness and all of the things that hold us back from being in touch with the ultimate reality. So in that case, I don't see it as a practice that is reinforcing the self, but a practice that helps us to liberate the self, if that makes sense. It does. Let me just see if I can state it back to you briefly. This paradox, these two levels of reality, It comes up a lot on the show and it's very easy for people to get confused.

30:45So I'll probably say something I've said here many, many times before, but I think genuinely this bears repeating. There are two things that are true all the time. I mean, that's what you just finished explaining on the relative level, on the consensual level of reality. The day to day, you're a Fosu, I'm Dan. We have driver's licenses. We exist. It's obvious we exist. There's a mirror. We will see ourselves in that mirror. Ultimately, though, on the ultimate level of reality, and I love that expression, ultimate reality, it sounds like the name of a shitty garage band that teenagers come up with after smoking weed.

31:21On the ultimate level of reality, it's like taking a high-powered microscope to the chair you're sitting in. It's like, okay, that's a chair. We can agree it's a chair. But if you take a big microscope to it, you'll see that it's mostly spinning subatomic particles. There is no essence of chair and there is no essence of a FOSU between your ears or behind your eyes. The same with Dan. And I think what you're saying is since the relative level of our minds, the chatter that's happening all the time that we point to and call self, since it's so thorny and tangled and painful, if we can't turn the volume down on the suffering, then it's going to be hard to get to the ultimate level.

32:04And so this is like the Tibetan expression that I talk about all the time on the show. And I apologize. There might be a drinking game among my producers for the amount of time I bring this up. But the Tibetan expression for enlightenment is a clearing away and a bringing forth. And you can't clear away the stuff that's blocking you from enlightenment. Yeah. If you don't have skillful means for doing it. That's right. Skillful means is what it's all about. It's not an end unto itself. None of these practices are. They are all skillful means to bring us closer to what we already are. You know, the word sati in Pali, which is used as the word for mindfulness, but it really means to remember, to remember who you are, to remember what you are, to remember what this is.

32:51Yeah. If you're caught in the thicket of a sense of unworthiness, how are we going to get to those lofty views? coming up afosu jones corte talks about how to do self-compassion both on the cushion and off the cushion and how to teach it to your kid

33:18now we've we've done all of the arguments and counter arguments let's drill down on the skillful means like the how of this i'll throw out some of the things that i know you recommend and you can maybe talk about them. Sure. Here are three things that I've heard you talk about. Journaling, having written reminders around the house, and having accountability partners. Yeah. Okay. Now, for everybody who's got an edge and everybody who wants to maintain that edge, I know all those things can sound silly. They sounded silly to me, but I did them, and they were so helpful. So nobody's watching you, and nobody's like, well, even if they are, who gives a fuck?

33:56Like this is for you. You know what I'm saying? So like journaling is not a practice that I do every day. But when I was in the thick of it, I would sit in meditation. I'd come out and I'd write myself a very short letter, just recognizing my efforts, recognizing my challenges and just offering some words of support. It would seem a little silly at first, but that by the end, it just felt so good and so cathartic. So I'm a little bit more intermittent with journaling, but my second oldest daughter has a daily journaling practice. And I've seen for her how important it is in just processing her life and just for her to be her own witness.

34:35When I said earlier that like, only you know what it's like to be you. Journaling is a way of reflecting that truth that like, yeah, I'm the only one who really understands all of the ways in which life impacts me and what my intentions are and how I go forward. So journaling is a really healthy feedback loop that I think is a wonderful practice. I have a little note on my bathroom mirror that says, you're doing the best you can. I remember writing it down one day, just like as an affirmation practice for another thing I was doing, but I stuck it up on the wall. And every time I see it, I just feel better.

35:16I have another sticker on my refrigerator door that says there are so many things to be thankful for. All of these things are just ways in which we can begin to tweak the programming of our minds against the constant negativity bias and short circuit that stream. If I'm brushing my teeth in the morning and just thinking of all the stuff I have to do and how yesterday could have been better. And then I just look up and I see the words, you're doing the best you can. It pauses that stream for a moment. And it gives me an opportunity to say, yeah, you know, I am. And let me give myself some grace for that.

35:49If I'm walking downstairs towards the kitchen and I'm feeling ungrateful or feeling entitled or feeling like things could be better. And I just see the words, there are so many things to be grateful for. It's another cause for pause. It's another, I love at the Insight Meditation Society in Berry, Massachusetts, there's a little note on the door in and out of the office. And it says, the pause that remembers. Yeah, it's just one of those things. It just gives us a moment to pause and ask, is this really true? Do I need to stay in this state of mind? And so you mentioned journaling, you mentioned notes.

36:22What was the third thing? Accountability partner. Accountability partner. So my wife is my accountability partner. And I always ask, whenever I'm offering a self-compassion workshop or class, find somebody who can be on this journey with you and have somebody out there that you can check in with or that can check in with you and just ask every once in a while, hey, how's your self-talk going? I have a few self-compassion accountability partners. Another is my good friend, Tanzanite. Every once in a while, we'll just ask each other, how are you talking to yourself? How's your self-compassion practice going?

36:56It does not have to be a big deal. I know those words, a self-compassion accountability partner sounds like chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff of Self-Compassion. But what I really mean is just let somebody know that you're on this journey. They will want to be on this journey too. You can invite someone and be like, hey, I'm on a journey to be more kind of myself. Would you like to go on this journey with me? And all it's gonna require is us checking in with each other from time to time. It's not that being more compassionate to yourself becomes another thing that you end up shaming yourself for not doing enough for.

37:29having somebody to check in with from time to time can really help support this practice. It goes back to the third jewel of the Buddhist trinity, for lack of a better word, of Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha to have community support. And so many of us, myself included, have a lone wolf attitude towards our practice. And it's really helpful to shift out of that and to just say, hey, I'd love to have some support as I'm going on this, as I'm going to embark on this journey to learn to be more kind to myself. Just to say in your defense of the imagined critics that we've conjured and are arguing against during this whole podcast, there is no shortage of data to support the argument that if you want to establish a habit, having other people with whom you do the thing is very helpful.

38:19and back to journaling. Ethan Cross is a psychology professor at University of Michigan. I wrote a book called Chatter. He's come on the show before and he's done some work that shows that when people use their own names, when they're talking to themselves, a FOSU, I know you messed that up, but you got this or whatever, that that actually has a meaningful impact. And because we're advice giving creatures, we generally just don't take our own advice. It's called distant self-talk. That's the technical term. If you can create some distance, you're more likely to listen to the wiser part of your mind.

38:53So those are two things I wanted to say in support of you. And then just a little question. When you talk about putting a sticker up on your mirror that says you're doing your best, for me, I have no view on whether you're doing your best. But in terms of myself, when I think about that, immediately my inner lawyer is like, really? Are you doing your best? I don't know. I can think of a lot of things you fucked up or There are times you decided to like scroll through TikTok instead of, you know, changing the kitty litter or whatever else. True. Okay. So I'm thinking about you as my friend here, right?

39:26If you were to say to me like, man, I just spent all that time TikToking or whatever. Am I really? But I'm like, but you made it to the interview, Dan. You look good. That's, you know what I'm saying? Like you're here, you're present, you're delivering, you're nailing it where it counts. Listen, did the kitty litter get changed at some point? Yes, it did. We're all just doing the best we can. Now, sometimes that's not 100 % true. It's okay. But most of the time it is true. I think most of us are generally doing the best that we can. And that can look like so many different things. I mean, who's the judge?

40:01Yeah. So I'd have your back if you were arguing against yourself because, hey, here you are and you're doing the thing. You're doing the thing that needs to get done. You're doing your best. I appreciate that. So let's stay on this tip of off the cushion self-compassion practices. A couple of other things that I've heard you talk about. A running inquiry you can try to keep going in your mind is, and this is me repeating you back to you. So I don't want to pretend this is an original idea on my end. The running inquiry that you recommend to people is the simple question, what if I wasn't so hard on myself right now?

40:37Or is this really true? Yeah. So this is where mindfulness really comes in as our supportive witness. This is an off-the-cushion practice that is supported directly by our on-the-cushion practice of being familiar with the term papancha or thought proliferation. Just the ways in which our minds can just spew thoughts or chatter or spin scenarios or engage in very, very, you know, judgmental, harsh modes of thinking and relating. Having a mindfulness practice can support being able to check in at any given moment with what's happening with me right now. What's happening in my mind? What's happening in my body?

41:21How am I doing emotionally? When we are developing that kind of awareness, we can sense when the volume is really up on the inner critic, when the volume is really loud on the ways in which we can shame and mentally abuse ourselves. and we can then ask that inquiry, like, do I need to be this hard on myself right now to get this done? On the flip side, would it be possible for me to do what I'm doing right now and be a little bit more kind to myself? Is it possible for me to treat myself with more grace as I move through this? I mean, if you are packing to get to the airport or trying to get out of the house to get to work and maybe you're running a little bit behind, that the inner monologue can get pretty harsh pretty fast.

42:12And having mindful awareness to notice that that's happening and then to offer another approach, like, do I need to be this hard on myself? Do I need to talk to myself like this? What if I could support myself, encourage myself in a healthier way? So just keeping that inquiry alive is super supportive. Also, in those moments where our negativity bias is really up, or if we're having anxiety about something we said or did or something that's coming up, just asking that question, is it really true? There's this wonderful children's book called Tiger, Tiger, Is It True? But it's one of those children's books that's like an everybody book.

42:52It's like when your mind is creating all of these scenarios, you can just ask yourself, is that true? And really methodically look at the way you're thinking about the thing and the reality of the thing, or more specifically, the way you're thinking about yourself and the reality of what's true for you in the moment. I think many times, especially if that inner critic is being exceptionally loud, we will notice if we ask, is this really true that it's inflating, conflating, deflating, it's all kinds of flatings are happening that are not consistent with reality. Yeah. You're getting very close to using a naughty term there.

43:37it wasn't my intention i'm gonna give myself some grace right now and know that the truth is i wasn't trying to go there it really says more about my mind than yours um i think we should hang out dan yeah i get that sense too um so let's talk about on the cushion everything you just listed that in my opinion is extremely useful for free range living. But there are ways to practice self-compassion in a much more intense fashion in formal meditation practice. So could you describe how that might work? Sure, sure. Once you become familiar with the type of approaches that you really respond to, then you'll find that you can be very creative on the cushion with how you incorporate this into your practice.

44:32I really enjoy doing a self-compassion body scan. It's really paired with a gratitude practice. So when I'm sitting, I'll move my awareness through the body in a conventional body scan way where I just notice what's happening in the head, the face, the neck, shoulders, arms, and so on. But while I'm giving attention to each region of the body, I will also offer a sense of appreciation for each region. If we're doing like a, not a super micro intensive body scan, but like larger regions. So let's just notice our head, neck, and shoulders. So bringing attention to the head, the neck, and the shoulders, and just noticing what's there.

45:21and taking a moment to appreciate all that happens in this region of the body, all that happens in the head, all that happens in the neck, all that happens in the shoulders. And on the next in-breath, collecting any tension that might be there. And as you breathe out, giving the head, neck and shoulders permission to relax. And as you breathe in again, just acknowledging how much hard work happens here. And as you breathe out, just offering a simple thank you to this region. And you go through the entire body like this, you know, just noticing what's there, considering all the work that happens, giving those regions permission to relax and then offering a sense of gratitude or even a little thank you, a little mental thank you to all these different parts of the body.

46:10It's a really powerful practice to just acknowledge like, oh, this whole body is doing so much and so much of it I'm not even aware of. And I want to acknowledge it and offer gratitude. And in my experience, many of us are not as embodied as we could be. And one of the ways that we can learn to have a better relationship with ourselves is to be more in touch with the body. So a gratitude body scan, a self-compassion body scan is one of the practices I really love to do on my own and to share with people. Another practice is connected to the traditional loving kindness practices where we are offering words of love and words of care towards ourselves and others.

47:01Taking time to stay with yourself. This is also called meta practice or loving kindness practice, etc. I know when I first started doing this practice, I really hated it. And I definitely skipped over offering it to myself. Or I would just go through the motions. May I be well? May I be happy? May I be at ease? And so one of the ways to shortcut going through the motions is to instead of just thinking of yourself as like an abstract, See if you can call up an image of yourself in your mind or again, to remember yourself as a small child and to think of what that child needed at the time or to think of what the child that lives within you needs right now.

47:46And offering words of kindness and reassurance to the young person within you or just to the person that you are. One of the ways that I like to do this practice is connected to the third, more formal practice I'm going to share. But it's just like, how am I doing in this moment? And based on how I'm doing, what do I need? What are the words that I need to hear right now? And offering them to myself. So I don't really stick with the traditional loving kindness phrases of may I be well or may I be happy, may I be at ease. Sometimes I do, but it can be a lot more specific than that. There's a wonderful book by Lama Sultrin Alioni.

48:25I don't know if I'm saying her last name right, but it's called Feeding Your Demons. And it involves asking any sort of unresolved parts of yourself in any given moment, like, what do you want right now? And then what do you need? And so you can have that kind of inquiry with yourself, you know, as you're doing a loving kindness practice for yourself, is a check-in and just noticing like, okay, well, are there any parts of me that really need some attention right now? and what do those parts want and what do they need? And then offering yourself those words or wishes, may whatever needs are there, may they be fulfilled.

49:02May I feel safe, may I be successful or may I be able to relax in this moment or may I move beyond fear? Any of those types of ideas and relating to oneself. And then finally, the practice that I like to use the most is again, to do a short mental, physical, and emotional check-in. How is my mind right now? How's my body right now? How are my emotions right now? And then just imagine that a best friend, a loved one, a puppy, a child, any person who you would immediately feel some positive regard towards, some care for, imagine that they're feeling exactly how you're feeling and whatever you would say to them, say to yourself.

49:47So it's an extension of the loving kindness practice, but then you can also allow your heart to go out to yourself as well. The way that your heart would go out to a friend or a loved one or a child or an animal, allow your heart to bear witness to whatever your reality is in the moment. And you don't have to do too much. You can just bring your heart's attention to wherever it needs to go and rest with that. Those are the three, A self-compassion slash gratitude body scan, a loving kindness practice that can consider the inner child or that can offer phrases that are really specific to whatever your situation is.

50:26And the mind, body, heart reflection that includes whatever you might say to a friend or loved one who was feeling how you were feeling and offering those same words and movements of the heart towards yourself. Those are great. I thought of another beef with self-compassion, and this is my last one. I think some people could argue that maybe this is all a little selfish or self-indulgent, and I totally disagree with that. And you, in talking to DJ, the guy who runs the show, you quoted the Vietnamese Zen master Thich Nhat Hanh, who said, he's not with us anymore, but who has said that when we meet our suffering with loving kindness, we do so not only for ourselves, but for all beings for all time.

51:11Yeah. Yeah. So that's a paraphrase, but that's what I've gathered from Thai, from Thich Nhat Hanh. So this reflection is super important to me, and I'm glad you brought it up. When I was talking to a senior monastic at Plum Village, and I was asking him about whether or not folks who have serious mental health challenges can achieve enlightenment, what his thought was on that. And I was asking for a friend, air quotes, and asking for myself also. And his response was really powerful. Shout out to DJ for remembering that I brought that up because it's an important point. And shout out to Brother Fap Lin and everybody at Plum Village Monastery.

51:57And what he said to me in response to that question is, you know, go big or go home. Imagine your own particular flavor of suffering, whether it's mental health, trauma, etc. Think of every human being or even every living being who has experienced your flavor of suffering going all the way back to the beginning of time. and now think of every being who is experiencing a similar flavor of suffering right now on the planet earth out of all 8 billion of us or however many there are. And then even more if you're counting other beings. And then think of all the beings that will experience a similar flavor of suffering until the end of time.

52:36How does that make you feel? And for me, I just said, it makes me realize that my suffering is not as personal as I experience it to be. This is actually part of the condition of being alive and that my suffering is not 100 % my own. Suffering is a wave that moves through the lived and conditioned experience. So on the one hand, it really opens the heart past the small self and to consider that, wow, this is a part of the suffering that being's experience. So while it's visiting me, may I take care of it so that as it continues to go along its way, it's a little more healed. When I take care of my own suffering, especially the lineage of suffering that passes through me genetically, my parents, my grandparents, all the way back to the beginning of time.

53:33When I'm healing the conditions that create suffering within myself, I do that on behalf of my ancestors. But I also do that on behalf of my children. And I do that on behalf of my contemporaries. And I do that on behalf of all that will happen in the future. So there's a big sense of the Bodhisattva vow to heal and to help and to save all beings that is involved in taking care of your suffering in this moment. So that it doesn't just roll on in perpetuity and cause more havoc. But as it's come to visit you, if you're developing the skills of mindfulness and compassion, and you can apply those to your situation in the moment, that's not selfish at all.

54:19You are doing that as a way of healing your own legacy, your own lineage. You're doing that and you're making the world a safer and more habitable place for your contemporaries. And you are doing that to establish a safer and more healed world for those to come. Yes. I think there's just an inexorable link between your inner weather and your outer behavior. And yes, so you are. This is not selfish. No, I want to play a bit of your music and have you talk about that. But one last question on self-compassion. You've got kids, three kids. Am I right about that? Four. Four kids. Okay. How or can you teach self-compassion to your own children?

55:03I really, really love asking them, what would you say to a friend of yours who is feeling the same way? There's something about that inquiry that helps us to realize that we would give so much more space and grace to others than we might naturally give to ourselves, even if we were experiencing the same thing. It's actually shocking how young kids begin to develop that inner critic and how quickly they begin to believe it. You know, I've heard my own kids say, bumping up against the challenge that they just inherently weren't good enough, that they would never figure something out or that there was something, you know, fundamentally wrong with them.

55:54And I've heard other very young people echo those same sentiments, you know, bumping up against challenges. And I think the long game is really important when you are wanting to introduce ideas around mindfulness, compassion, self-compassion, etc. to young people. My root teacher, Bhante Buddha Rikita, talks about, you know, just planting Dharma seeds. and I'll say this to my son, my seven-year-old, if he's having like a real tough time with something, I'll say, hey, how would you treat a friend who was going through the same thing? And he might just bark back like, I don't know. And that's fine.

56:36I just want you to think about that. I just want you to have that in the back of your mind. You might not know what the answer is right now, but I just want that inquiry to be a part of how you move through challenges so that when the rubber really hits the road, you've got that resource in there. When we share these types of things with young people, we have to keep the bar super low. You not expect them to be able to digest them and put them into practice immediately, but to know that you have suggested an alternate approach and that suggestion. And if you are consistent, not in an annoying way or in a way that's, you're trying to enforce a state of mind, but just suggest, hey, there's another way to think about this.

57:21Because for young people, your friends are everything. So just that question, how would you treat a friend in the same situation is a very, I think, effective entry point. So I've got two kids who are in elementary school and I got two kids in college. And watching my older kids go through the teenage years and are now in their very young adult years, and are able to resource themselves. As I mentioned, my daughter journals regularly. They see a therapist, not because they're in crisis, but just for regular mental maintenance. They have a sitting practice. They know how to practice compassion for themselves.

58:01And even when it's not immediately available, it catches them before they fall all the way. And I'm still there to annoy them with it. So yeah, I think just planting the seeds and trusting that they'll grow. Coming up, we're going to play some of Afosu's Dharma-inspired music and talk about it.

58:30Before I let you go, let's just play a clip of your music and get you to talk about it a little bit. I'd love that. Look at yourself in this moment. Ask yourself, how do you feel? All that you know is the moment. That's the only thing that's real Look at yourself in this moment Ask yourself how do you feel All that you know is this moment That's the only thing that's real Look at yourself in this moment Ask yourself how do you feel All that you know is this moment It's only the thing that is real Moments they come and these moments they go If we come back again it's an infinite flow But until then we still in the moment forever The past is forgotten, the future is never the present It's all that we know and can measure Joy and the pain and the pain and the pleasure Making it better or making it worse If it's the second then make it reverse Until the day that I'm late in the hearse I'ma just be out here making it work I fell in love with cocaine as a flirt Search for the feeling escaping the hurt Mixing with Tito's, no mixing with needles I'm wet like a fish and I'm hot like an eagle Becoming the villain, supplying my ego One moment a hero, the next when I'm evil I don't know who I am half of the time Let it all go if I black out it's fine I'm sick of dealing with life as a chore Really don't wanna feel nothing no more Do it from sundown to sundown again Racing myself for the come down again

59:49Tell us a little bit about what we just heard. So that was the lead single from my album, In This Moment, the album I released in 2021. That song was really a turning point for me in terms of creating music that was an extension of my practice, creating music that was an honest expression of my reality, that was not trying to game the system in any way, but just to really just be as raw and as honest and as authentic as I could be as an artist. I had always thought of myself as a rapper first. And my journey as a teacher was not an ambitious one. It's something that happened. I was doing it as a community service and it just kept growing.

1:00:38And I had gotten to a point where I was really exhausted with my life as a musician being one way, my life as a teacher, practitioner, parent, et cetera, being another way. And I just wanted to put everything together and have it all be one thing. In order to do that, I needed to just be honest about where I was in my life. And In This Moment was the song that, I guess it's an extension of a journaling practice because it is a song that helped me write my way out of my depression. And it helped me to see how my practice, even though it was imperfect, has been there for me the whole time. So the last line of that verse is, even though right now I feel like I'm worthless, I'm gonna just look at my mind and observe it.

1:01:26And the chorus says, look at yourself in this moment. Ask yourself, how do you feel? All that you have is this moment. That's the only thing that's real. So the first verse is really me expressing the darkness that I had found myself in. But having a practice to be able to just sit and notice what is happening in this moment. And even though I feel like I'm worthless, I can still look at my mind and observe it. That whole sequence of despair ends in a moment of practice. And from that practice, the second verse arises. There's a point in the second verse that's really important to me. It says, I am the child.

1:02:04I am the parent. I am illusion. I am awareness. I am the pain that I didn't take care of that turned into all of the things that I'm scared of. And it's just this moment of recognition. I was very impressed with myself when I wrote that. But it's also like such an important moment of recognition that I am the pain that I didn't take care of that turned into all of the things that I'm scared of. And it is that call to self-compassion. The following lines after that line are, what do I notice is none of it lasts. Same as the lightning and thunder that crash. All of the thoughts and the feelings and fears stay for a moment and then disappear.

1:02:42Everything in me is naturally free. all that's required is I let it be. And so that's the other gift of practice is that our feelings and our thoughts, our emotions, they feel so intractable. But if you just watch them and see their true nature, they pass, they come and go. And I would add that if we watch them with an attitude of kindness, then healing is possible. And so towards the end of that second verse, I am enough is the mantra repeated for all of the love and compassion that's needed. And yes, I might fall again, but then I'll rise again, sitting cross-legged and closing my eyes again.

1:03:19So that song that we just listened to, that was really the beginning of this grand experiment of can I make Buddhist-themed hip-hop that doesn't suck? And that is honest to my experience. That's not trying to speak from the sutras, but to speak from the heart. Final question from me. If people want to learn more about you, get your music, hear your Dharma talks, whatever, where can they do that? An easy place is to go to my website, borneimusic.com. So B-O-R-N, the letter I, the word music.com. All my stuff is there. And another super easy place to go and you'll see pictures is my Instagram. And I'm just at borneimusic, at B-O-R-N, the letter I, music.

1:04:03Such a pleasure to get to know you. Thanks for coming on. Yeah, for sure. Thanks so much, Dan. Dude, let's hang out. Let's do stuff. I agree.

1:04:22Thanks again to Afosu Jones-Corte. Always great to have him on the show. Don't forget to sign up for my new app, 10 % with Dan Harris. You can get it at danharris.com. There's a free 30-day trial if you want to try before you buy. If you sign up for the free trial, that will cover you through our New Year's Meditation Challenge with Joseph Goldstein. that runs from January 5th through the 11th. It's going to be great. Last thing to say here, I want to thank everybody who worked so hard on this show. Our producers are Tara Anderson and Eleanor Vasili. Our recording and engineering is handled by the great folks over at Pod People.

1:04:55Lauren Smith is our managing producer. Marissa Schneiderman is our senior producer. EJ Kashmir is our executive producer. And Nick Thorburn of the band Islands wrote our theme.

1:05:10Thank you.