Stop Trying to Become Someone New: Get Past Constant Comparison and Return to What Works For You | Sam Sanders

0:04This is the 10 % Happier Podcast. I'm Dan Harris.

0:17Hey, hey, how we doing? I think quite commonly when we contemplate the various levers we could pull to upgrade our mental health to get happier, we consider things like sleep, exercise, meditation, etc. But there's a ton of evidence to suggest that aesthetic experiences, i.e. beauty, are also extremely powerful ways to boost your well-being. This could be nature, but also, of course, art. And not just fine art that you see in museums. I'm talking about movies, music, TV shows, the stuff that I personally love. So today, we're going to play you a conversation between me and my friend, Sam, who I'll tell you about in a second, about which pieces of art reliably produce happiness and meaning for us?

1:01The friend in question is Sam Sanders, who is the host of the Sam Sanders Show. I should say that we initially recorded this conversation that you're about to hear for Sam's show back around New Year's, but we're dropping it for you here because we think you'll like it and also because we think you might want to check out Sam's show, which I highly recommend. He's awesome, as you'll hear. Sam has a term for the pieces of art, music, TV, or film that we return to again and again. He calls them modern scriptures. So you're going to hear us discuss our modern scriptures. Side note, I'm recording this after several days of being alone in our house.

1:39My wife and son are overseas. I've been going back to old movies in the evening, specifically the Godfather movies and also some Martin Scorsese stuff, which I know just totally reveals my age, but those are definitely modern scriptures for me, those old mafia movies and organized crime films. I can get totally sucked up into those. Anyway, Sam and I don't talk about those specifically, but I do mention many, many other modern scriptures of mine, and we hear about his. It's also a wide-ranging conversation that we get into why Instagram is reliably making me miserable and why I deleted it, what the research actually says about making resolutions stick.

2:17We recorded this close to New Year's, but this is true for anybody ever trying to form a habit. And we also talk about Sam's genuinely moving theory about why the act of return might be the most underrated practice there is. Okay, just a few quick things to say before we dive in here. This is the last day of a challenge that we're running over on the 10 % with Dan Harris meditation app. The challenge has been called Even You Can Meditate. It's been awesome. Don't worry, though, if you missed it, you can still access all of the great meditations from the challenge and much more. Head on over to danharris.com to download the app.

2:51Also, I've got two live in-person events coming up. On May 17th, I'll be at the 92nd Street Y in New York City. I'll guide a meditation and take your questions. And coming up in October, that's the annual workshop I do with Seven A. Selassie and Jeff Warren, Meditation Party, October 16th through 18th at the Omega Institute in upstate New York. I'll put links to both of these events in the show notes. Okay, long intro, sorry. My conversation with Sam Sanders coming up after this. Listen up, I need your attention for a moment. Chevy Drive Chicago has a massive opportunity for you. They're giving you the chance to win the Chevy you actually want.

3:30There's no mystery here and no luck of the draw, surprise prize. You choose the Chevy. You pick it, you win it, and you drive it. Chevy's lineup is built for whatever the road throws at you. If you need a truck that's as dependable as they come, the Silverado is ready to work hard and play even harder. If you've been thinking about making the switch to electric, the Equinox EV makes it a seamless transition. Quiet, powerful, and big on tech features. From the capability of the Equinox to the striking design of the Blazer, there's a Chevy that fits your life perfectly. Whether you want gas or electric, the choice is entirely yours.

4:04Entering is simple. Just head to ChevyDriveChicago.com to sign up. While you're there, check out the Chevy Truck Month incentives and find your local dealer. Chevy Drive Chicago, official partner of the Chicago Bears. Don't just dream about it. Go win it at ChevyDriveChicago.com. A thoughtfully built wardrobe comes down to pieces that mix well and last. And that is where Quince shines. Premium fabrics, considered design, and everyday essentials that feel effortless to wear and dependable, even as the seasons change. Quint has the everyday essentials I love with quality that lasts. They've got lightweight cashmere sweaters.

4:42I've got three of those, I think. Short-sleeved Mongolian cashmere polos, linen bottoms and shorts, tees in 100 % Pima cotton and European jersey linen. These are versatile pieces that make a wardrobe actually work from season to season. and Quince works directly with top factories and cuts out the middlemen. You're not paying for brand markup or fancy retail stores, just quality clothing. I'm sitting in my podcast studio looking down at my feet while I read, and I've got Quince socks on right now. High quality socks, highly recommend. They only partner with factories that meet rigorous standards for craftsmanship and ethical production.

5:21You've heard me say it before, I wear Quince all the time. From the pants I wore to a dinner party last night to the socks I'm wearing right now, and on and on. Right now, go to quince.com slash happier for free shipping and 365 day returns. That's a full year to build your wardrobe and love it. And you will. Now available in Canada, too. Don't keep settling for clothes that don't last. Go to quince.com slash happier for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com slash happier.

6:03I'm thinking about deleting Instagram. If I watch Instagram for 45 minutes or half an hour or 15 minutes, I'm convinced that everyone else who has a smartphone is making their own original music and music videos and building their own furniture and cooking all their own food. It makes me feel grossly inadequate. So would you consider deleting it? No, not yet. Not until I... Hey, y 'all, Sam here. So can I tell you a little secret? I mean, it's not really a secret. I just haven't talked about it too much just yet. Anywho, the secret is that I went to a silent meditation retreat last year. I know this surprises me as well because my job is literally to talk.

6:51This retreat was five days in upstate New York, and I had to be totally quiet around other people who I couldn't talk to or even look directly in the eye. But to my surprise, it was great. And it got me thinking a lot about how I can bring mindfulness into my life in all kinds of ways, and even bring mindfulness into this show. So let's say I am dedicating this episode to that intention. but we're going to do it in a roundabout way. We're not going to just sit in silence and meditate this entire episode. Me and my very special guest are going to share some pop culture recommendations that help us stay grounded and centered and happy and mindful and all those good things.

7:35I call these recommendations modern scriptures because you can return to them over and over again like scripture. Get it? To have this conversation and share some modern pop culture scriptures, I'm joined by the most mindful podcaster I know. His name is Dan Harris. Dan is a former TV news anchor for shows like Nightline and Good Morning America. But for many years now, Dan has become somewhat of a meditation and mindfulness expert. His very popular podcast is called 10 % Happier with Dan Harris. And this show has all these really deep and interesting conversations about mental health and the science of the mind.

8:17and how we can all live better lives. This show is really great, and I say that not just because I was on there once. It's a great show. Anywho, Dan Harris joins me today to share his modern scriptures. So let's get into it.

8:36I am going to tell you why I brought you on and my idea for the episode. But first, Dan Harris, please tell our listeners and viewers who you are and what you do. Okay. Brief bio. My name is Dan Harris. I used to be a network news anchor. I was an anchorman on ABC News and a correspondent, war correspondent, in fact, for 20 years. and then I had a panic attack. This is probably the best, the thing I am best known for in my entire TV career was freaking out in front of an audience of 5 million people on Good Morning America. I had a panic attack and that led me to meditation and then I wrote a book about that called 10 % Happier and that book, which Barbara Walters confidently told me, don't quit your day job.

9:31that book got sufficiently popular that I was able to quit my day job. And now I'm like a full time. I don't know what I am. Happiness expert or meditation evangelist, something in that zone. I like that. I like that. And you have a podcast called 10 % Happier. You have an app as well. I have an app. It's called 10 % with Dan Harris for legal reasons right now that I won't get into. But eventually it will be called 10 % Happier. Yes. Yes. And I've had the privilege of getting to know you through your work. I was on your show, gosh, a while back now. And I had the honor of being able to meditate with you IRL a while back.

10:10And that was just a treat. And so, yeah. I was very proud of you. I don't think you had done much meditation before you showed up for a little retreat with me and a few other friends. And you did a great job. It was a very brave thing to do. And you did a great job. You say little. It was several days in silence. I don't think I told you, but there were moments where we could go outside to meditate and have what y 'all called walking meditations. And I was so – one day I was so discombobulated and missed talking in the sound of my own voice. I walked further than I was supposed to on the grounds.

10:49And when I got far enough to where no one could hear me, I just yelled out to the woods, I'm talking. And then I came back. A little act of rebellion. Nice. But I made it and it felt really good. And yeah, I have been getting back into my meditation practice since the retreat. So I'm very grateful for it. It was fun. It's all just part of my grand plan to make you part of my cult. Done. I'm in. Yeah. What are the do's? Do we get uniforms? I'm ready.

11:25so i had this idea for us i've been wanting to figure out a way to get you on this show because i'm such a fan and i think the work that you do and the words that you speak help people who hear them and i was like all right he's into mindfulness my whole bread and butter with this show is entertainment books and tv and movies and music and the things that we like to entertain us. And I was like, what if we could find some way to talk about both of those things? And it reminded me of a conceit that I have used in previous podcast episodes before. I like to have people share with me what I call modern scriptures.

12:03And these are things in the culture, books or movies or TV or whatever, music, whatever, that you return to often or frequently and they ground you in some way or make you happy or give you a good cry or whatever. This whole thing began for me when I read in 2018 a New York Times profile of Melissa McCarthy. It was written by Taffy Broaddister-Akner. And I read it and by the end of it, I was in tears. It was really crazy. And then I noticed every few months when I was having a bad day, I would go back and read this article and feel better. The entire premise of the piece is that Melissa McCarthy is a comedian and an artist that lives above the fray of daily life, of modern life, of the news, of headlines.

12:56And she centers and grounds herself so much in her comedic work and her work of emotion that it helps her to literally fly above it. And the scene at the open and close of the piece is Melissa McCarthy at one of those fake skydiving gyms where the air blows you up. And the metaphor is that she floats above it all. You know, it's really sweet, really beautiful. But it reminds me whenever I read it to preserve whatever special place in our hearts that resides for art and for creativity and for things that bring us purpose and meaning and that we have to have things that we love that we hold on to that no one else can take from us.

13:34So when I noticed that I would always revisit that article, that profile, I said, what are some other things that I go back to in the culture that bring me joy? And then I began to ask friends and it became a thing that I would talk about in podcasts. And so I was hoping to have you, Dan, share some modern scriptures of your own with us this episode. Talk about why you like them, what they mean to you. And maybe in the midst of all that, we will give some folks some good recommendations of things that could make them a little bit happier, too, maybe even 10 percent happier. I love that conceit.

14:11And just to say, I don't have the data right here with me, but in the 10 years of hosting my podcast and interviewing tons and tons of researchers, I've had a lot of people come into my world who've made the case that access to beauty, to aesthetic experiences, it's a key part. of human flourishing. And the other case that I've heard made is that you can use art, specifically music is powerful in this way, to shift your mood the way you were doing with that, with Taffy's piece on Melissa McCarthy. So, there's a lot here from my perspective. I love it. I love it. Well, with that, let's get into your modern scriptures and I'll share a few of my own you sent us the list i'm gonna just select from this list and have you start by talking to us about ferris bueller's day off this is a film that you said that you return to and it brings you joy talk about it yeah so i i um saw it when it came out i'm revealing i'm i'm showing my age here but i was uh i was a uh not quite a grown-ass man but like you know close enough when that came out i was a i was a teenager and loved it in in real time i don't think i saw it again until i had a child uh i have a son who's 11 and um we have watched this movie probably five or six times together so he loves it so much alexander does that he recently had a birthday just a couple weeks ago and we went to one of those movie theaters where you can um where they deliver you a meal while you're in the movie theater and you can recline in the seats and he you could pick the movie and so uh he and his friends watched ferris bueller and the kids are all right wow the kids are all right yes yes a lot of the kids hadn't seen it but everybody loved it and i thought i would this is so embarrassing but i kind of thought like i've seen this movie enough i'm probably gonna work and i'll go and go out in the hallway and work while we're watching this movie.

16:29But I didn't, because for that exact reason, this is my child's birthday. You know, for the fifth time in probably two years, it is a perfect movie. It is so tight. And every beat in the movie is perfect. And not just from a writing standpoint, and from the standpoint of narrative propulsion, it is a flawless, frothy, but flawless work of art. And I'll say, notwithstanding its froth i mean it is light it has an incredible message you do you remember ferris's tagline is i said it before and i'll say it again life moves pretty fast you don't stop and look around once in a while you could miss it it's a very buddhist sentiment i love this very buddhist ferris jeweler's day off is buddhist i love this i like how because i watched it a lot in my youth because tbs would play it all the time all the time and i would watch whenever it came on and i remember that scene towards the end where the really really expensive vintage car just like crashes out of its garage and is like destroyed and in that moment you like take a beat and then i think the character's involved and kind of just like okay the car is gone now the car is gone now and move on and i don't know i fixate on that part of it a lot when i watched that movie and it's like this reminder it's like it's never really about the car car is a car like there are these things that we fixate on and hold on to i guess when you look at it and when these things break and when these things fall apart you're still okay your dad's not going to physically kill you the car is gone it's fine i don't know that scene for me sticks out the most well also buddhist um you know one of the central tenets as you know having uh sat through a a non-trivial amount of silence with me uh and a bunch of buddhist teachers you know one of the one of the things you see if you stop and look at your mind is that things are changing all the time and this is not my analogy but you know one of the most reliable ways to suffer is to cling too tightly in a world of unremitting non-negotiable change.

18:48And if you cling too tightly, this is the analogy, you will get rope burn. And so what we see when that fancy car goes flying out of the glass enclosed garage in which it's been kept at like a museum piece, what you see is, okay, well, this is the truth and we have to deal with what is now reality. Thank you, Ferris Bueller. I love it. I have a pick for A Modern Scripture. And I was thinking about Ferris Bueller, and that made me think of another movie that I recently saw, that as soon as I saw it, I said, I'm going to be watching this at least once a year for the next several years. there is this new musical not quite biopic that is in theaters now had a big marketing push around Christmas stars Hugh Jackman and Kate Hudson it is a musical called Song Song Glue so in this film the two of them play average Joes who have made a Neil Diamond tribute band that gets pretty big Look at that.

19:59It's like shimmering, you know? You know, my hair guy does clothes, too. Awesome. You know, Neil is special, and I just want everyone to get that feeling I get when I listen to America and Forever in Blue Jeans. Oh, Sweet Caroline. Sweet Caroline, yeah, but I'm never going to be the real McCoy. I mean, I don't really look like Neil. I don't even really sound like Neil. I've got to be Neil, but I've just got to be me, too. Yeah, you don't want to be a Neil Diamond impersonator. You want to be a Neil Diamond interpreter. I was looking for the right way to say it, and you just came right out and said it.

20:30The commercials for it are laughable. It looks like a farce. You're like, this can't be real. Who cooked up this idea? Fire all the executives. It looks so cheesy. So cheesy. But something about it draws you in, and then you watch it, and you realize, one, Kate Hudson deserves an Oscar. And two, you are a Neil Diamond fan, even if you don't even know it. but what I love about this movie and why I want to keep returning to it is that it is a film that as a friend told me feels like a movie should feel at every step it hits the beats that a melodrama of that sort should at the moment you're supposed to laugh you laugh when it's time to cry you cry and at the end they put a nice bow on it and you're like yes it feels fulfilling um I I watched it once, cried like a baby.

21:22And then over the course of New Year's, hanging with friends, I said, I have a great plan for us tonight. We're going to watch this movie and cry like a baby together. And I just love it. And it's one of those movies that you put on when you don't even know that you need a good cry and you get one. And it's this reminder that sometimes the well that I want to return to is a reliable well. I want to play the song that takes me there. I want to watch the film that gets me there. I want to tap into those things that I know are going to give me this emotional catharsis that will feel good. And my newest of that ilk is Song Song Blue.

22:00It's a really good movie. Okay, I'm convinced. I'm going to see it. But the trailers are crazy. Well, so I had seen trailers and had that reaction. I thought this looks ridiculous. But Kate Hudson, I think, is an under-heralded actor. She can sing, too. Yeah. Can she really? My son and I have been watching the Knives Out movies, and she's really good in the second one. She's very good. She's very good. Fun fact, she has a band outside of her film work. She sings around L.A. I kind of want to become her grippy now. I'm really obsessed. She's really good. And there's this scene where she has this really tight-to-the-camera monologue in this delectable Midwestern accent.

22:42And you just watch her do it, and you're like, oh, give her the Oscar right now. Right now. Yeah. Yeah. So you, but I don't want to gloss over something you said there. For you, there's a well that you want to return to frequently of give me a good cry, give me some catharsis. Oh, yeah. You know, I mean, there's certain things where you go to them and you know that they'll, like, release the pressure valve. This movie will give me a good cry. This song will give me a good, ugh. This film will make me laugh. This TV show. So I can always go back to The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air and have a good belly laugh and just relax.

23:23Or like the film Rat Race, which is not a great movie, but it's a terribly bad, bad movie. It's got Whoopi Goldberg and Mr. Bean, and it's a caper film with a bunch of poop jokes, and it's stupid. But I watch it, and whenever I watch it, the rest of the world's problems just kind of roll away. I think with Song Song Blue, it's like I want art sometimes that will reliably take me out of whatever place I'm in. And usually it's either a good laugh or a good cry. Song Song Blue gives you both. They didn't pay me to say this. But yeah, you know, there's some – sometimes art can be transcendent. And I like that.

24:05I agree. I don't know, and I say this as a kind of self-criticism. I don't know that I'm ever looking for a cry, although. I love a good one. In traffic. Yeah, I think. Oh, that's the best. I see this as a sign of your being more evolved than I am. And it may be, you know, whatever version of masculinity. Or just being fundamentally broken. No, I don't. I don't hear that as fundamentally broken at all. But I will say that I was about to kind of criticize myself for not being somebody who cries that frequently. But as I've gotten older and probably on the influence of a lot of meditation practice, the TikTok algorithm has learned that I like to watch an emotional reunion.

24:57And I will cry at those. Like a pet owner reunion or a people reunion? Pet owner, soldier and his or her family, soldier and his or her pet. Yes. Oh, man. Best friends who haven't seen each other in a long time, and the spouse arranges a reunion. Parents, especially when a parent sees a child they haven't seen in a long time, those videos kill me. I've watched the same videos over and over and over, and they get me every time. I love it.

25:30All right, time for a break. When we come back, more modern pop culture scriptures with Dan Harris, host of the podcast 10 % Happier. stick around

25:44I want you to talk a little more about another pick that you sent to us Fleetwood Mac you picked two albums from Fleetwood Mac that you return to and they make you feel good rumors of course we all agree but you also chose and I'm with you on this their much maligned follow up Tusk yeah are you a tusk defender it was maligned i'm definitely a tusk defender i mean it was maligned the way the beatles white album was maligned in the time as being uh overly um maybe self-indulgent too many songs it could have been one record instead of a double record um and sure yeah there's some songs on on on that record that i don't love but there are some incredible songs on there and now i'm really what i'm about to say is going to expose the fallacy of the story i'm telling myself about not being sufficiently emotional because for me fleawood mac makes me quite emotional because i was raised with those records and it so brings me back to when my parents were healthy oh that's beautiful would they dance with it at home and vibe to it on a Saturday morning?

27:01I don't remember my parents dancing much. I danced to it. But my parents were recovering hippies. Well, full on hippies, really. I mean, if you ask my mom, you know, everybody of that generated the boomers, you know, where were you when a man landed on the moon? My mom's answer, which is a legit answer, was I was at a Black Panther rally. um and for the avoidance of doubt my my mom is is not black um so she she was really uh she was very political both my parents were very politically attuned in the late 60s my dad got drafted and managed to um be able to serve in dc instead of having to go to vietnam and and all of the music of that time we were raised with now the fleawood mac comes in the mid-70s but they were still kind of in that mode even though at that time they were no longer kids but i was a kid and so those like the opening sounds the opening chords i guess is the right term of the first song on rumors i think it's secondhand news secondhand news I know nothing to say Someone has taken my place When times go bad, when times go rough Won't you lay me down in the tall grass and let me do my stuff I know I've got nothing on you I know that there's nothing to do It just always gives me the full body kind of tingle And it brings me back to, yeah, being a kid and my, you know, my parents, you've gone through some of this yourself.

28:46My parents are still alive, but they're in a very different condition than they were when I was a kid. And they were kind of my alpha and omega, you know, like I really looked up to them. And now I'm more of the parent. And so that's been dizzying, head spinning for me. so the music is poignant in that way yes well and i love fleetwood mac for so many reasons but i think that they speak to and actually i did a whole episode about their song dreams for this music podcast one song and my biggest takeaway with dreams is that like they are a band that managed to work together in spite of all of their fighting and still make good art so dreams was Stevie Nicks' answer to Lindsay Buckingham's You Can Go Your Own Way.

29:37They're both two different songs about the same breakup. And imagine two lovers who have broken up that are in a band making songs about the breakup on their own and then saying as a band we'll do them together. That's what they did. And in the making of dreams, Lindsay really kind of helped Stevie fix the song. It wasn't ready, but she brought it to them. And he helped. and then they sung it together and made it art. I find that so inspiring. There are other parts of them that I hear express emotionally. Like on Tusk, if you listen to the song, What Makes You Think You're the One, Lindsay Buckingham is hitting that snare with the rage of all the ancestors.

30:18And they're like, oh, they are working through a breakup on wax and they're still going to work together. What makes you think I'm the one?

30:44I just find that a really, really great North Star for creativity. If we can work together and be creative together, even in spite of all of these things, maybe it can still be good art. like they stuck through it that's wild to me i think i think lindsey buckingham might have also been pissed about her about stevie's solo career taking off in ways that were eclipsing his and the band oh yeah oh yeah and like you just hear rage in there and they make it art and you hear sadness in there and they make it art and it's like i don't know we we whenever we talk about fleetwood mac we talk about all the breakups all the breakups all the breakups and i'm like oh the story of fleetwood mac is that they stuck together through the breakups they kept making stuff that is remarkable to me and yeah tusk is so underrated i love tusk another thing about tusk is that uh lindsey buckingham at that time and this was true for paul mccartney who at that time was a solo uh while he was in wings um but also making which in the early i like wings a lot justice for wings I've been thinking a lot about Wings because my wife for Christmas gave me a book that came out in November, which is kind of an oral history of Wings.