A Family's Shame

1 Oct 2026 · 37 min · 11 chapters

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In short

The episode “A Family’s Shame” centers on Molly McIntyre, a Vero Beach, Florida police detective whose 28-year-old son Todd survives a fatal apartment fire that kills Nicole DeMott, but investigators find evidence Nicole was strangled before the fire. With suspicion initially falling on Todd and then on Todd’s brother Patrick (who had a prior conviction for rape), Molly—despite having no hard evidence—begins to doubt Patrick and later visits him in jail after he’s charged with attempted rape. Patrick confesses to killing Nicole, wrapping a t-shirt around her neck, choking her, then setting a fire around her body while Todd slept downstairs. Molly testifies against Patrick at his death-penalty trial, and the jury sentences him to life without parole.

Guests

Molly McIntyre (mother/detective), Todd McIntyre (surviving brother), Patrick McIntyre (defendant; confession), Nicole DeMott’s mother Dee Perry (victim’s family), and later Todd and Molly’s family members (including discussion of ongoing aftermath and attempts at reconciliation).

Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.

Chapters

Tap a time to open that second in VO

Molly's Tragic Loss

1:08 to 4:14

Molly recounts her husband's death and its impact on her family.

“Looking back, Molly McIntyre admits she should have paid more attention to her kids when they were young.”

A Mother's Dilemma

4:14 to 8:01

Molly faces a heartbreaking conflict between duty as a cop and love for her son.

“made her suspicious of her son's behavior.”

The Trial of Patrick McIntyre

8:01 to 13:54

The trial unfolds as Molly confronts the reality of her son's actions.

“Jurors hear Patrick's terrifying account of the murderer.”

The Impact of a Crime on Families

14:00 to 16:00

Explore how a family's life is irrevocably changed by a crime committed by a loved one.

“And I can sit here and I can intellectualize that thought and look at you, but very little does it sink in.”

The Robison Family's Turmoil

17:58 to 22:26

Delve into the Robison family's struggle as they cope with their son's actions and impending execution.

“are former school teachers who cherish their family.”

Reflections on Guilt and Responsibility

22:27 to 28:00

Examine the complex emotions surrounding guilt and responsibility in the wake of tragedy.

“He'd be caused to I have intravenous injection.”

Reflections on a Troubling Past

28:00 to 29:26

The episode explores personal memories and the emotional toll of execution day.

“It's because my mother always liked to hear me sing.”

The Execution and Its Aftermath

31:43 to 36:08

Detailing Larry Robison's execution and the family's emotional turmoil.

“Do you have any doubt in your mind that you'll be executed?”

The Execution and Its Aftermath

37:33 to 38:13

Detailing Larry Robison's execution and the family's emotional turmoil.

“Chime is completely changing the way that people manage their money.”

Family Ties and Forgiveness

38:34 to 42:00

Exploring the complex relationship between David Kaczynski and the victims of his brother's actions.

“The first 12 bombings occurred from 1978 to 1987.”
Show all 11 chapters

A Journey of Forgiveness: David and Gary's Story

42:00 to 44:13

Explore the emotional reconciliation between David Kaczynski and Gary, his brother's victim.

“So when 48 Hours offered to bring them together again, Gary and David agreed immediately.”
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Transcript

Automatic transcript. May contain errors.

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1:08Looking back, Molly McIntyre admits she should have paid more attention to her kids when they were young. My life is entirely different than what it's ever been. But never in her darkest moments did she imagine what would happen when they grew up. Does a day go by when you don't think about this? I knew. 26 years ago, Molly's husband was killed by a drunk driver. When I lost him, I lost my best friend and my partner. It was tough. Leaving her with two young boys to raise on her own. Patrick was a year and a month to the day, and Todd was just shy of five. So Molly got a job, a very demanding one.

1:43Why did you want to be a cop? I just loved it. I wanted to be a superhero. You've still got every single newspaper clipping about this? Every newspaper clipping. With her passion for cracking tough cases and getting bad guys off the street. It was abduction and rape of a seven-year-old. Molly was a hero in her tight-knit community of Vero Beach, Florida. I love you, Molly McIntyre. I like you because you saved my life. Wow. But in 1997, Molly McIntyre's sense of duty and justice was put to a cruel test. It was in a murder case, and it pitted her lifelong commitment to law and order against her love for her own child.

2:21October 7th, 3.15 a.m. A fire broke out in the top floor of this building. I woke up to a bright light coming from my window. Molly's 28-year-old son Todd was in his apartment below, sound asleep. I heard some noise outside. I thought maybe it was rain falling. It was, uh, sorry. It's tough. He tried in vain to get to his neighbor and friend, Nicole DeMott, on the floor above him. By the time I saw the apartment, it was engulfed in flames. It was amazing. So you just had to get out? Yeah. For your own life? Absolutely. Not only was Nicole dead, but when Molly's fellow officers investigated... When you open this bag, I just relived the sea.

3:06...the evidence held a shocking surprise. It smells just like the sea. Nicole DeMott had been strangled before the fire was set. That was still around her neck? Yes, it was. You think that was a t-shirt? I believe it was a t-shirt. Because he was at the scene, suspicion first turned to Todd. My alibi was I was sleeping from 1.30, and that's when I remember going to sleep. How could he sleep through this, right? Yeah, exactly. Police looked, too, at his younger brother, Patrick, who also knew Nicole and who had a troubled past. Fingers started being pointed at my brother, and I started getting it from all directions, and I just didn't want to hear it because in my mind, my brother wouldn't do that.

3:47he wouldn't set that place on fire with me and sleep downstairs. Both Todd and Molly Long had been protective of Patrick even five years ago when he was convicted of raping a woman he knew. My gut instinct was this simply did not happen. This time, Molly's instincts were different. From the beginning, she had gnawing doubts about Patrick. Maybe in the back of my mind, I may have had a suspicion that first day. As her colleagues investigated, Molly's own experience as a detective made her suspicious of her son's behavior. and of a cut on his finger. At what point, though, do you remember thinking, oh, my God, you know, Patrick may have done this?

4:27It was a point of maybe an imprecise bit of recognition coming through from a subconscious type of thing, like, is this possible? In my own defenses, my own survival skills just put that away. The fire in Nicole's apartment was so intense there was virtually nothing left to link Patrick, Todd, or anyone else to the scene. The heat was incredible. There was a few metals that were completely melted. For two months, Molly kept quiet. With no hard evidence, the case was at a virtual standstill until Patrick McIntyre was brought here to the county jail on another charge, attempted rape. Suddenly, his worried mother decided she had to talk to her son.

5:14The only thing in my mind was he did this and I need for him to tell the truth. He needs for him to tell the truth. She shared her plan with Todd. I agonized over telling Todd because I didn't want to break his heart. I'm totally denying that he would set the place on fire with me to sleep downstairs and that is first and foremost in my mind talking to detectives, talking to friends, talking to relatives, talking to your mother, to my mother. He looked at me, He said, do you think Patrick killed Nicole? And I said, I don't think that, Todd. I know it. What did he say? He broke down. He broke down.

5:49The next day, a distressed Molly McIntyre went to this jailhouse conference room to meet with her troubled son. I told him that I loved him and that I always would love him. And this is something I've told both the boys their whole lives. I may not like what they do, but they're my sons and I love them and they can trust me above all else. She was in there maybe 10 or 15 minutes. I sat right outside the door. Did you ask him outright, or did he just simply know why you were there? He knew, and I told him that he needed to tell the truth to try and keep him out of the electric chair and to save his soul.

6:23Without the truth, he had no prayer. Which were you? Were you the mother or were you the cop? I was the mother, and that was my primary job. Sometimes I just failed to recognize that. But at this point in time, that was my only job. When I got in there, he was a wreck, and I immediately broke down, and we just held each other as we never had before and just cried for a long, long time. How did you perceive your son when you were sitting there looking at him, once you had accepted this? As my son. And did you look at him in any way differently than you had before? Heartbroken, but he was still my son.

7:02Sergeant Danny Cook, a longtime colleague of Molly, took Patrick's confession. I left that room and I approached Molly. I really didn't know what to say. Other than, I'm sorry, what do you say? Do you think that mothers might look at this and say, you know, she was sure, but there was no evidence. And absent her doing anything, you know, maybe this would have just blown over. It could very well have, but for how long? until he did it again. I dug through the ashes and I managed to save her jewelry, her class ring. With a confession, Nicole DeMott's mother had answers to her agonizing questions.

7:44It was horrible. I was relieved, but I was so shocked. It's Todd's brother. And prosecutors had a case. How important was that confession? It was the case. A death penalty case. Our biggest concern was they're going to just hang him. Coming up... The defendant wrapped a t-shirt around her neck. Jurors hear Patrick's terrifying account of the murderer. Choking her until she was dead. And the mother, who put his life in jeopardy, now tries to save him. You can't kill my son. That's next.

8:28Who would ever think so innocent? Patrick was an angelic child. Molly McIntyre remembers her son Patrick as an intelligent, sensitive child, proud of his mother, the cop. I could hear him bragging to our guests, she caught an armed robber at a gun store, he says. But now he could face death in the electric chair. I can't go from this innocent child yet in my own mind to this cold-blooded killer who almost killed his brother. Patrick McIntyre is on trial for murder. This defendant turned a shirt into a lethal weapon. Though he will not testify, the jury has promised a detailed account in his own words of how he killed Nicole DeMott.

9:09We know that she called his name. Thanks to a very incriminating statement he made at the urging of his mother. You didn't have to persuade him. You didn't have to cajole him and say you've got to do this. No, he broke down and cried like a baby. He was still crying when he told police what happened that awful night.

9:32He used this to gain entry inside the apartment. Just a kitchen knife, isn't it? Just an ordinary kitchen knife. Although he could not explain why he was there, Patrick remembered what woke Nicole.

9:51Nicole fought for her life.

10:08Still stroke one and kicking. I just held it down until she stopped moving.

10:15Then he started a fire. He essentially built this fire around her body. That's what he said, yes. And with his brother Todd asleep downstairs, he left. It was a miracle that Todd got out. It was a miracle that he woke up. Although he never gave a reason for killing Nicole, his confession all but guaranteed a conviction. Still, Molly strongly believes she did the right thing. There was no question in my mind. There was no choice. There wasn't anything I could do. Have you ever asked him why he did this? No, no. I've never even heard his confession. You've never heard his confession? I've never heard his confession.

10:52No. You want to hear his confession? I don't think so. I told him I wanted to save his life to try and keep him from the electric chair. Molly McIntyre is put to a test few parents ever will have to face, testifying against her own son in a murder trial. Did you in any way coerce your son at the time you met with him? No. When she takes the stand, Patrick turns away. He is no longer talking to his family. Which side were you on in this trial? I was on the side of truth. And which side was that? That was the side that Patrick McIntyre needed to be convicted of this crime. And that is what happens.

11:30We find the defendant guilty of first-degree murder as charged in the indictment. Now the court must impose punishment. In sentencing, judges usually follow the recommendations of the jury. And in this case, the jury has but two choices, life without parole or death in the electric chair. The truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth to help you guys. I do. The mother, who was so crucial in getting her son convicted, now has one desperate chance to persuade the jurors to spare his life. That's my son. That's my baby. I love him. And nothing will ever change that. He didn't have a parent. She begins with a confession of her own, blaming herself for putting in too many grueling hours at work and neglecting her own children.

12:15He didn't have someone that would come home at night and help him with his homework and nurture his mind or, you know, the little things that make so much. That's a very hard thing for a mother to say about her own job of bringing up her kids. Pretending like I had no part in this as his mother, it would be a complete miscarriage of justice. She begs the jurors for compassion. If you tell the truth, you're supposed to take that into consideration. If you do the right thing, and he did the right thing, he's a good man. He did a horrible thing, but he's a good man. And I don't think you should take his life away from him.

13:00He's not going to get out. He's not going to hurt anybody else. But maybe he can give something back. But he can't if you kill him.

13:12You can't kill my son. After Molly's dramatic plea, the jury begins deliberation. A simple majority is all that's needed to condemn Patrick McIntyre to death. What was it like waiting for that? recommendation to come through. It was horrible. It was the most horrible, horrible feeling in my life. It's one of those dark, dark walls that I don't ever want to look beyond. After two hours, the jury reaches a decision. The jury advises and recommends to the court that impose a sentence of life imprisonment upon Patrick John McIntyre without possibility of parole. Patrick McIntyre will spend the rest of his life behind bars.

13:52You know, I'm concerned about his safety. He's in prison in Florida. You know what prisons are like. Well, I put a lot of people there and that frightens me. And he's in prison for good. Forever, forever. And I can sit here and I can intellectualize that thought and look at you, but very little does it sink in. It's like when someone has died in a lot of ways, it takes time. Have you ever had any regrets about what you did? Ah. Ah.

14:25That's, that's the, uh, no. No. I can't regret what I did. I only did what I thought was best. The jury didn't hear my side of anything. It's a bitter outcome for Nicole's mother, Dee Perry. He should have the death penalty. He took my daughter's life. He choked her to death. He burnt her face and her hands off. Why should he live? So this park was the site of one of your more famous cases, right? Molly no longer works as a cop. I could never look at another child or another crime scene or another victim and not see my son's face. She has suffered severe emotional problems. I'm hiding. Isolating is what they call it, really.

15:09She spends a lot of time alone. I have needed to withdraw into myself to get strength, to rebuild strength. Two years after his life was abruptly disrupted... I was being investigated for murder. I couldn't stay focused at work, so, I mean, business is business. I was let go. Todd says he is back on track and closer to his mother than ever. But Patrick is never far from their thoughts. Can you say that you've forgiven him for what he did?

15:44I can say I'm still trying, but we need to sit down face to face and talk honestly. And hopefully he'll be willing to do that soon because I miss him very much. And I don't want to lose him. Coming up. It was a regular ritual. He killed five people. Things will never be the same for me or for my family. How will this killer's family... He was a good little boy. ...survive the sins of a son? This has torn the guts out of our family. I want it to be over. True crime is full of unanswered questions, but earning your degree doesn't have to be a mystery. That's where Southern New Hampshire University comes in.

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17:56That's about it, isn't it? Well, we like to get together. We do this real often. Lots of good people here today. Ken and Lois Robison Get it back ready? Get it! are former school teachers who cherish their family. When everybody gets together, we have some really good food. Especially now. The whole family is very supportive. as they struggle to cope with the death of their son. We're very upset about what's happened to Larry. We're going to have the open casket there, and then they'll later do cremation. That son is actually alive and well. They'll go ahead and have the memorial. But he will almost certainly die within weeks.

18:39In fact, the Robisons know exactly when their son will die, right down to the exact hour and minute. That's because Larry Robison lives here on death row at the Texas State Penitentiary in Huntsville. That's the day. As his execution nears. I'll just put an X on the day. That'll be the worst day of my life. His sister Vicki worries about her parents. I'm worried most about my mother because she's fought so hard to save his life. And how her brother's crime has consumed her family. This has absolutely devastated this family. I feel like in some ways it's just torn the guts out of our family. It happened on a hot August day in 1982 in Lake Worth, Texas.

19:26The body of Ricky Bryant, Robison's roommate, was found in his cottage, decapitated and castrated. Next door, police found four more victims, shot and repeatedly stabbed. It was a regular ritual. Rhonda Kreps lost three of the people she loved most in one swift massacre. I would like people to see them as they were then and see that they had life. Who is this? Her mother. My mother was my friend. Her sister Georgia. I miss her smiles. And her 11-year-old nephew, Scott. And he was the love of my life. The pain of... You just don't even know the pain. Fort Worth police say Robison has told detectives he was responsible for the murders.

20:18Larry Robison's killing spree would also destroy his own family and completely change their lives. Well, my life has changed. Things will never be the same for me or for my family. I have come to be identified as the father of Larry Robison more than anything else. We're just horrified for the families. of the victims. You know, that's just somehow you feel, you feel kind of to blame somehow. It is not the way the Robisons imagined their life would be. This is a picture of our wedding night. When they married in 1962 and combined their families. There were six children at the wedding. Which one's Larry?

21:00Larry's the one with his chin up in the air. Together they would raise eight children. What kind of child was Larry? Larry was a good baby. He was a good little boy. He was very smart. Did real well in school. No problem whatsoever, you know, to take care of. But later, his behavior changed, and he got into drugs. Was he troubled at this point? Yes, he was. He had begun having troubles by this time, severe problems. At 21, four years before the murders, his worried parents took him to a hospital for evaluation. The doctor came out within about 30 minutes, I guess, of examining and told us that he was paranoid schizophrenic.

21:42But they say... These are psychiatric evaluations. They could not get him committed long term. Cute, paranoid, schizophrenia. Before the night of the murders, did you ever think that Larry was dangerous? No. Violent? No. He had never been violent. They were dead wrong. We knew he needed help, but we just didn't know how horrible it was for him. until it was too late. In court, Larry Robison pleaded insanity. Defense experts testified he suffered from schizophrenia, while state experts argued his symptoms were caused by prolonged drug abuse. They said he was in full control the day of the murders.

22:22It is therefore the order of this court. The jury agreed. Larry Robison was found guilty and sentenced to death. He'd be caused to I have intravenous injection. His distraught parents blamed the system for failing to help their son before the murders. They said, well, we can't keep him more than 30 days unless he's violent. They vowed to fight to save his life and change the system. And he was found guilty and given the death penalty. Through years of lost appeals, they have relentlessly repeated their story. This is a picture of my son, Larry. Yes, I've seen this picture before. I'm very close with my mother.

23:02Hello? But she devotes so much of her time and energy to this. I'll have to go pick up the lawyer from the airport. It puts a damper on the relationship that I think that we could have. I know it's her son, and I know she's fighting, but I'm fighting for my right, too. I need disclosure. I need them to go to sleep and leave me alone. I feel all this sympathy for the families that were also devastated by this. But the world automatically grieves for them. But what the world does not realize is that this family, this good family, is going to get nothing but spit in our face. when our loved one dies and that day is imminent i find the visits you know they get more difficult as as his date approaches the execution is less than five weeks away larry robinson number 748 if the execution goes forward what do you think life will be like for the two of you else we'll go out we'll miss visiting larry yeah the visits are good it's going to leave a void in our lives.

24:32Coming up, despite his parents' crusade, Larry Robison says he is ready to die. I accepted my fate a long time ago. And the fight to save him... Can we have some institutions that have his story? No! ...is about to tear his family apart. It's time to let him go, Melody. I just want it to be over. I want it to be over.

Read the full transcript

24:59All backing up in here is where the house was. The house where the murders took place was where? Right here and there. Since 1982, Rhonda Kreps has been haunted by the memory of one terrible day. And then here you were. You're right at the door. I try to put the house back together again and try to fix it, and you know, I can't. When her mother, sister, and 11-year-old nephew were among five people viciously slaughtered at this site, 230 miles away, Larry Robison awaits execution for those murders. Do you feel you're responsible for your actions? Of course. I believe that everybody is responsible for their actions, their own actions.

25:44Do you think you deserve the death penalty? Yeah. You do? Yeah. Although he appears lucid now, his parents, Ken and Lois, insist he was insane at the time of the murders. This is not fair because we couldn't get him treatment for his mental illness. I've got some petitions for him here. And we have some petitions that have his story. This wouldn't have happened if we had got him the proper treatment. Do you ever look across this cage at your parents and your mother especially and say, you know, these were two decent, hardworking people who have literally been through hell because of what I did?

26:25Yes.

26:29Yes, I have. What's your reaction to what they're doing? Well, I think what they're doing is not just for me. Lois Robeson, I'm going to let her tell you the story. I'm very proud of what they're doing. I'd like to tell you a little bit about my son. It's given them a purpose in their life. It's been very physically difficult to keep going, and it's been very difficult to think that, you know, sometimes I would think, well, what else could I have done that could have kept this from happening? I don't think the parents should feel guilty about anything that their son did, and I don't think we should hold them accountable.

27:07Melissa Estes, cousin of Bruce Gardner, one of Robison's victims, will witness the execution. He was a grown man when he committed these murders. Do you truly believe that Larry bears no responsibility for the crimes he committed? Well, that's a hard one to say. I think that he was extremely psychotic when it happened. I'm a mother of a son, and I can't imagine living with the horror of knowing that her son has killed five people. Of course she's convinced herself that he's insane. Do you remember the day of the killings? I remember all of it. You remember all of it? Yes. Well, why did you do it?

27:47Well, that's something that I've never discovered, you know. Something maybe I probably would never know. I come to the garden alone. Of course, I'd sing a song, you know. It's because my mother always liked to hear me sing. It was one of those things. And the voice I hear falling on my ears. Are you paranoid schizophrenic now? Not like that. I mean, I wouldn't even know if I would say I'm paranoid schizophrenic now. Will, are you taking medication? No. None other has ever... No. I had a dream the other night. It was hilarious. He was about that age. And I was holding him in my arms.

28:44He was such a good little boy. He was the best little boy that ever lived. Later, on execution day, Ken and Lois say their last goodbyes. I'm blinking. He looked into my eyes for minutes. Just moments before, a stunning surprise. He said, I was hoping that it wouldn't work out this way. A surprise that will cause his family even more pain. No, I won't do it. I won't be a part of it. I won't be a part of it.

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31:37Use offer code DIFFERENCE for 50 % off select plans. Terms and conditions apply. Do you have any doubt in your mind that you'll be executed? I don't presume to second guess what God's will is for me. If it's my time to go, I will gladly get on that table and leave. Seventeen years after he murdered five people, Larry Robison's execution day dawns. Tonight at 6 p.m., he will receive a lethal injection. his parents arrive for their final visits what's going through your mind right now i just want to tell him goodbye and that we're going to miss him and all the memories we have when he was a little boy and what a wonderful little boy he was although ken and lois steadfastly maintain that he was mentally ill Larry Robison's crimes have devastated their lives.

32:39Now, as they leave him for the last time, Larry Robison has less than six hours left. He's preparing to go over to the other side. He says he's already halfway there. But minutes after she utters those words, there is a stunning development. We got to stay! We got to stay! We got to stay! We got to stay! We received word today about 140 that there had been a stay issued for Larry Keith Robinson. They are killing Larry Robinson today. The highest court in Texas issues a stay and orders a hearing to determine if Robinson is competent enough to be executed. I said, Larry, you've had a stay. What are your feelings about it?

33:21He kind of shrugged his shoulders and he said, well, such is life. In a last desperate attempt to spare his life, his lawyer is now saying that he is presently too mentally ill to understand what is happening. And he said, I was hoping that it wouldn't work out this way. But this is exactly the way his family hoped it would work out. It's a miracle. It's a miracle. The victim's families have a hard time believing the news. I thought, by the grace of God, it was over with. Just outside the death chamber, Lois Robison braces for a new battle. You up to it? Yep. I'm a mama tiger. Three months later, she arrives for yet another day in court.

34:06By now, her son has been evaluated by several doctors. I don't have much space left in the criminal justice system. It only takes a few minutes for the court to receive reports from doctors on both sides. This time, both sides agree, and the judge makes it official. Larry Robinson is competent enough to be executed. Beautiful. After the hearing, Lois is allowed to hug her son for the first time in 12 years. What did he say to you? He just told me that he loved me. We are here together at this time to lend support to one another. Once again, her family and supporters regroup. So we do now have an opportunity to appeal this decision.

34:48I think you need to ask everybody in this room whether they want to appeal it. Ask the family members. I say no. He has always told me to go ahead and do whatever we're doing. He'll do whatever you want to do, Mom, he will do, but that's not what he wants. But this time, his sister Vicki reaches the breaking point. No! No! It's time to let him go, Melody. You are not related to him. You don't have to feel this like we do. She has been through a lot of emotional turmoil and it just all exploded today. I have been through it long enough. You have, this has done something to you, Mom, that you don't even realize.

35:29We all, we all have a life here and we don't. It's been very painful for all the family. I just want it to be over. To live through this for all these years. There's a lot of people suffering here. Not only our family, our family is only one part. The victims' families are suffering too. Even so, Lois Robison refuses to give up. This is her son. She's cared about him for 42 years.

36:01On January 21st, one week after we first aired this report, Larry Robison was executed. It's hard to let go. It's hard to let go. Ever find yourself standing in front of your closet having a full-blown style spiral? You know the feeling. Staring at a rack of clothes, wondering if wide-leg jeans are actually worth the hype, whether an outfit is truly work-appropriate, or why finding a pair of pants that fits properly feels like a full-time job. You do not have to navigate it alone anymore because Maurice's is essentially that stylish friend in your group chat who always knows what looks good on you.

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38:41Oh, Sally, this is Dave Kaczynski. Do you remember me? It's a name few of us can ever forget. The first 12 bombings occurred from 1978 to 1987. It's spelled K-A-C-Z-Y-N-S-K-I. A name synonymous with an 18-year reign of terror orchestrated by David Kaczynski's brother. This is the work of the Unabomber. The infamous Unabomber, Ted Kaczynski, who was responsible for a series of bombings that killed three people and injured 23 more. I think the first thing you think about is, my God, how could this have happened? How could it be true? The longest and most intense manhunt in U.S. history has zeroed in on a prime suspect.

39:30It was David who, in an agonizing decision, turned his brother in to the FBI. There's definitely a sense of being torn in many different directions. The thought about Ted, he felt pain. Are you responsible for these bombings? You think about the victims and what they've gone through. You see pain and a sense of horror. I thought about the decision, felt pain, because though my mind was telling me it's the right thing to do, my heart was giving me a different answer. It's been more than two years since Ted was sentenced to life in prison without parole, longer since the brothers last spoke. Ted has called David a Judas who he never wants to see again.

40:14You always question yourself, is there something we could have done? Could we have loved him differently? David, a social worker, and his wife Linda, a college professor in upstate New York, are struggling to somehow right his brother's wrongs. Your last thing will be forever linked to this series of horrible crimes. There's some effort, some hope that the family honor can be redeemed somewhat from those crimes. They're giving away the million dollars they were awarded for turning Ted in, some of it to his brother's victims. And David has tried to apologize to each and every one of them. As it went off, there are still marks.

40:57I mean, there's still marks where some of the shrapnel went into the wall. In 1987, Gary Wright picked up one of Ted Kaczynski's pipe bombs disguised as debris. in this parking lot behind his computer store in Salt Lake City. As I went to pick it up, it exploded. The metal, as it exploded, it fragmented. And as it came off, it turned into like these razor pieces. They took out, oh, I think 40, 50 pieces of shrapnel out of my left leg. A lot of reconstruction on my face. I took a nail through the chin and the lips. Gary Wright endured years of painful operations and physical therapy, which makes what happened later even more extraordinary.

41:39Gary became close friends with David Kaczynski, the brother of the man who tried to kill him. Hey, Dave. Good to see you again. It's about time. Same here. This is an unlikely friendship, don't you think? Yeah, there's no doubt. I mean, it kind of is counterintuitive. It flies in the face of what anybody would expect. They first met about two years ago. So when 48 Hours offered to bring them together again, Gary and David agreed immediately. The great cabin over to the left. Their surprising friendship began when David called his brother's victim to ask for forgiveness. I cannot tell you how nervous I was.

42:19He was a man who had numerous operations, his life literally blown apart in many respects by something that my brother had done. He just said, I just want to apologize for my family. And I said, David, you don't need to apologize for your family. Gary, David Kaczynski's brother nearly killed you. Yeah, he did. Fractions of inches. But you call yourself a friend of David Kaczynski. Yeah, I do. I think he's a great guy. He's as much a victim as I am. Our family has carried a big burden. I think that burden was significantly lessened for us by Gary's kindness, by his willingness to separate between the family and the person who hurt him.

43:05He can acknowledge that my mother and I love Ted deeply, despite what he's done. And on this visit, it was David's mother's turn to acknowledge what Gary had done. This is Gary. Nice to meet you. How are you? I'm doing well. How are you doing? Oh, I'm grateful to you for your incredible generosity. Oh, no. Thank you. Oh, thank you. Thank you very, very much. No, that's not a problem. Thanks for having me. David Kaczynski, though, still has one last bridge to build, one more relationship to repair. It would be very meaningful to me to reconcile with Ted. You want his forgiveness? Sure. Do you think you get it?

43:50I have hopes. I have no expectations. This relationship with my brother is something that I'm going to be thinking about and working on internally for the rest of my life.

44:05Ted Kaczynski died by suicide in prison in 2023. From athletic stuff like a full court pickup game, swish, to athletic stuff like a half mile stroll, get those steps in. Head to Sierra or Sierra.com for the brands you want at the prices that let you do it all. From athletic to athletic, Sierra's got it. Paramount Plus is your streaming home for another unbelievable season of the NFL on CBS. And here he goes. Every Sunday. Touchdown! The most anticipated games. Lamar going deep. Oh, what a catch! Football's biggest stars. That's old-fashioned Josh Allen football. And all the unforgettable moments.

44:48There it is! This is history! Sign up for Paramount Plus today and stream the NFL on CBS all season long. See you Sunday!

From the publisher

The relatives of killers often bear their own unique burden. Reports include Molly McIntyre, a police officer whose son strangled a woman; Ken and Lois Robison, whose son murdered five people; and David Kaczynski, who turned in his brother Ted, the Unabomber. "48 Hours" correspondents Susan Spencer, Bill Lagattuta, Maureen Maher and Troy Roberts report. This classic "48 Hours" episode last aired on 7/6/1998. Watch all-new episodes of “48 Hours” on Saturdays and stream on demand on Paramount+.

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