Help Find Molly Bish's Killer

8 Dec 2025 · 46 min · 21 chapters

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In short

The 25-year investigation into the abduction and murder of 16-year-old Molly Bish, who disappeared June 27, 2000 after working her eighth day as a lifeguard at Cummins Pond in Warren, Massachusetts. The episode focuses on the case timeline, key evidence (including a blue bathing suit and human remains found on Whiskey Hill), and the current status: one named person of interest, DNA testing efforts, and a renewed push by a new detective.

Guests and backgrounds

Heather Bish (Molly’s sister; started TikTok in 2021 to solicit tips). Dr. Anne Marie Myers (forensic anthropologist/archaeologist with the Boston Medical Examiner’s Office; consulted on searches and remains identification). Erin Moriarty (host/reporter). Kathy Curran (former WBZ investigative reporter; covered early leads and the bathing-suit discovery). Sean Murphy (Massachusetts State Police lieutenant; discusses evidence testing and suspects). Detective Chelsea Safford (hired March 2025; organizes 80+ boxes and reviews evidence/tips). DA Joe Early Jr. (Worcester DA; comments on investigation progress). John Conte (then-Worcester DA; discussed grand jury). John Bish (Molly’s brother; interviewed about family disbelief and timeline).

Key claims

Molly left her belongings behind (chair, police radio, flip-flops, water). Police initially suspected drowning, but the family disputes it. A man in a white car was reportedly seen by Heather’s mother the morning before the disappearance; sketches were released. In 2003, a blue bathing suit was found ~5 miles away on Whiskey Hill, followed by bones and a skull; DNA/dental ID confirmed they were Molly’s. DNA results for Frank Sumner were inconclusive; he remains the only named person of interest. The case remains active with ongoing DNA cold-storage review and continued tip intake.

Notable examples

Grid searches around Cummins Pond; Whiskey Hill search yielding up to 27 bones across 35 acres; DNA testing of discarded cigarettes/trash; grand jury testimony (Stephen Lucas later cleared); multiple suspect leads including Rodney Stanger and Gerald Battistoni; renewed evidence review at the state crime lab (including Molly’s backpack and cigarette containers).

Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.

Chapters

Tap a time to open that second in VO

The Day Molly Went Missing

0:14 to 3:18

A detailed recounting of Molly's last day leading up to her disappearance.

“This is one of those cases that has haunted me my entire career.”

The Ongoing Search for Justice

3:18 to 3:40

The family's commitment to finding Molly's abductor and their emotional struggle.

“To the man responsible for the abduction of my sister Molly Bish, I want you to know I'm coming for you.”

Heather Bish's TikTok Campaign

3:40 to 4:34

Heather Bish's use of social media to bring attention to her sister's case.

“In 2021, two decades after her sister went missing, Heather Bish did something she never thought she would do.”

The Frantic Search Begins

4:34 to 5:30

Recollections of the hours after Molly's disappearance and the family's frantic search.

“and put an end to a painful 25-year-old mystery.”

Investigating Leads and Suspects

5:30 to 8:28

Details on the investigation, including suspects and police actions.

“She said, she's not there, she's not there, her shoes are there.”

Witness Accounts and Sketches

8:28 to 11:01

Eyewitness descriptions that led to sketches and potential suspects.

“They'd only been dating for three months and had just gone to the prom together.”

New Evidence and Breakthroughs

11:01 to 12:35

Discussion of a significant find three years later and its implications.

“A sketch was composed based on Maggie's description, and it was released to the public.”

Discovery of Molly's Bathing Suit

14:00 to 16:58

Learn about the pivotal moment when the bathing suit associated with Molly was found.

“Do you remember the very first time you came here?”

Search for Evidence Intensifies

16:58 to 20:09

Follow the search efforts and the emotional toll they took on the family.

“And she knew at that moment that something was drastically wrong and something horrible had happened.”

Finding Molly's Remains

20:09 to 22:06

Understand the significance of discovering Molly’s remains after three years.

“Myers believes that Molly's killer most likely picked Whiskey Hill because of its hidden location.”
Show all 21 chapters

The Unanswered Questions

22:06 to 24:46

Explore the lingering mystery surrounding Molly's disappearance and the investigation.

“We commend you now to the loving care of the Lord of us all.”

The Grand Jury and Disappointment

24:46 to 26:55

Learn about the grand jury's role and the family's frustrations as the case stalls.

“Heather, along with her family, were called to testify.”

New Leads and Ongoing Investigation

26:55 to 28:01

Discover the new leads that emerged in the investigation years after Molly's death.

“Heather would now face the daunting task to take over where her father had left off.”

Investigating the Suspects

28:01 to 29:59

Learn about the various suspects investigated in the case of Molly Bish, including their backgrounds and connections to the crime.

“Sean Murphy is a lieutenant with the Massachusetts State Police.”

The Emergence of Frank Sumner

30:00 to 32:04

Discover the involvement of Frank Sumner as a suspect and the complications surrounding DNA evidence.

“On June 3rd, 2021, more than two decades after Molly Bish disappeared, there was finally news.”

Frustrations and Challenges

32:05 to 34:22

Explore the challenges faced by investigators and the Bish family regarding communication and DNA testing.

“and planned to compare his DNA to DNA found at the crime scenes.”

Renewed Hope with Detective Safford

34:23 to 35:16

Introduction of Detective Chelsea Safford and her plans to reinvigorate the investigation into Molly's case.

“There's a lot of investigation that's been done.”

Evidence and the Quest for Answers

35:17 to 39:28

Follow Detective Safford's examination of the evidence and her determination to solve the case of Molly Bish.

“When I dedicate myself to something, I do not stop until it's accomplished.”

A Family's Commitment to Justice

39:29 to 40:23

Hear Heather Bish's unwavering dedication to finding justice for her sister Molly, reflecting on the impact of the tragedy.

“I see you have some of these solved, guilty, captured.”

Remembering Molly Bish

40:24 to 42:00

The Bish family commemorates Molly's legacy and calls for continued support in solving the case.

“insists that investigators are moving in the right direction.”

Molly Bish Tip Line Information

42:07 to 42:18

Details are provided on how to report information regarding Molly's killer.

“If you have any information that can help authorities find Molly's killer, please reach out to the Molly Bish tip line.”
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Transcript

Automatic transcript. May contain errors.

0:04It's been 7 ,680 days since my sister disappeared, and I've been waiting for answers on what happened to her. This is one of those cases that has haunted me my entire career. I was there from day one. This could be a very significant break in this case.

0:27June 27, 2000, I was a reporter at WBZ-TV in Boston. We received word that there was a teenager missing in Warren, Massachusetts. It was a lifeguard who was supposed to be working at this pond. Do you remember coming here?

0:45Erin Moriarty:Yes. It started like every other missing person case that I've ever worked. And about what time did Molly arrive here? We believe sometime after 9.50. Molly went to work that day. It was her eighth day as a lifeguard at Cummins Pond. She drove with her mom to work. She stopped at an extra mart and purchased a bottle of water. She went to the police station, secured a police radio. Her mom and she then drove the short distance down to Cummins Pond. I was with Molly and I dropped her off and everything seemed fine. And the rest is a mystery at this point. And what was left behind? Chair, radio, her flip-flops, a bottle of water.

1:33It was all right there.

1:35Erin Moriarty:They said that she would possibly drown. Knowing that she probably didn't, but I ran into the water. He did. He was trying to get to the deep end. You're just going on adrenaline. It's your baby sister. You saw, you know, fireboats coming in. You saw dive teams coming in.

2:00The state police helicopter was hovering from up above. They had cadets from the state police Doing grid searches all throughout the town, in the woods. and they were stopping cars.

2:17Erin Moriarty:Was it an abduction? Did she drown? Did she walk away? I was, like, frantic. My mom and I were frantic, and we were just staring into this pond, like, it'll resurrect her, or it'll tell us what happened to her. Like, it had the answers that we didn't have. We kept asleep with knowing where she was the first time in our life. You were actually on this case from the very beginning. Yes, my roles as the anthropologist, the archaeologist, they were coming to me and saying, Dr. Myers, we're not finding her. Where could she be? They were focusing down around Cummings Pond, and I said, you need to branch out.

2:59The months went by, the years went by, and then the decades went by. So that's when I became a warrior. Ever since that day, I've been trying to find the person who took my sister. I'm asking you for help. I picked up that sword and I started marching on. To the man responsible for the abduction of my sister Molly Bish, I want you to know I'm coming for you. I will never give up. Maybe we won't know why, but we at least deserve to know who. I will use science. I will use technology. I will use my voice. I will not stop screaming from the mountaintops for justice for Molly. I'm coming for you. I'm coming.

3:48Erin Moriarty:Erin Moriarty reports. Help find Molly Bish's killer.

3:56Have you heard of Molly Bish? She looks like this. She was abducted in 2000. She was only 16 years old. In 2021, two decades after her sister went missing, Heather Bish did something she never thought she would do. 40-year-old me got into the TikTok game. It's allowed me to, like, share my story and share Molly's story and really just be honest. It's been 7 ,680 days since my sister disappeared, and I've been waiting for answers on what happened to her. She hopes that by going public with her TikTok videos online, she will generate tips that will finally solve her sister's case. and put an end to a painful 25-year-old mystery.

4:42If you know something, please say something. The wait needs to be over. The last time Heather Bish saw her little sister Molly was the morning of June 27, 2000, just before Molly left for her job as a lifeguard at Cummins Pond in Warren, Massachusetts. Molly was playing with Heather's 11-month-old daughter, Michaela. She was having fun with Michaela, and I remember my mom saying, come on, we gotta go, we gotta go, you're gonna be late. But shortly after Molly was dropped off, beachgoers arrived, and she wasn't there. Police were eventually called to the scene. By the time they told Maggie Bish, Molly had been missing for three hours.

5:30And my mom was frantic on the phone. She said, she's not there, she's not there, her shoes are there. My heart dropped. I just knew something was wrong because I knew Molly wouldn't go anywhere without her shoes on. Why? Because she didn't like icky feet. When you first heard that she was missing, did you think maybe she had gone off with friends? John Jr. is Molly Bish's brother.

5:54Erin Moriarty:It's not what we do. It's not our personality, our character. We were raised better than that. 16-year-old Molly was Maggie and John Bish's third and youngest child. 48 Hours interviewed John back in 2003. She was heavily involved in school, with sports, with her friends. Molly was an honor roll student, varsity athlete, and she had just completed her junior year of high school. Molly was just very loud and fun. Heather says despite their six-year age difference, they were extremely close. It was a bond she had had with Molly ever since the day she was born. I do remember thinking that, oh, that baby is my baby, too.

6:40I'm going to teach her everything I know, and, you know, we're going to do this life together. Molly also had a close relationship with her brother. She very much wanted to be like my brother.

6:52Erin Moriarty:I took her underneath my wing. I was a lifeguard before her. She wanted to be a lifeguard. We played soccer together, baseball together. Molly was 5 '7". You know, she was athletic and in shape and strong. So when police suggested that Molly could have drowned, they didn't believe it. When Molly went missing, I mean, it was inconceivable. And then what I was told was the first aid kit was open. Adding to the mystery, the police radio was there, but Molly had not used it for her required morning check-in. Why? So what was, what happened?

7:32Later that afternoon, when it became clear to local police that Molly had not just walked off with friends.

7:39Erin Moriarty:The canine commences water search. State police took over the investigation and launched an extensive search. I'm looking for a 16-year-old. Her name's Molly Inbish. She's the lifeguard of the town beach. Massachusetts State Police Lieutenant Colonel Dan Richard headed to Warren to help out. I had a three-year-old daughter. Her name was Molly. She had blonde hair. She has blue eyes. This case has every day been with me from that day to today. Also present at the scene was then Worcester District Attorney John Conte. The state police are working around the clock on this, okay? Detectives zeroed in on everyone who was close to Molly, including family members, friends, and Molly's boyfriend, Stephen Lucas.

8:31They'd only been dating for three months and had just gone to the prom together. What raised some suspicion was that Stephen Lucas had a fat lip and he had some scratches on him. Former WBZ investigative reporter Kathy Curran. Could a young kid pull off this crime in such a short amount of time? The Bishes never believed that Stephen was involved. Within 24 hours, authorities were looking at known sex offenders in the area. We've looked at 35 to 45 sex offenders in the area. That's been the scariest part about all this is realizing how many bad people were within the fabric of our community. Molly's dad worked tirelessly with police.

9:24He was always going every weekend trying to work with the police and trying to find different ways to find Molly. And despite the fact that DNA testing was still in its early stages back in 2000, Detective Richards says they did collect and document many items found in and around the pond area, including discarded cigarettes and trash.

9:47Erin Moriarty:When we did the initial search, anything that wasn't there by nature or by God was at least identified as potential evidence. As the days went by, the Bish's despair grew. It wasn't like Molly was hit by a car or got sick. She was just suddenly gone. And we didn't know where she was. But it would be Maggie Bish who would give detectives their biggest lead. We pulled into the parking lot here. The morning before Molly disappeared, as Maggie went to drop Molly off at work at Cummins Pond, She recalled seeing a man sitting alone in a white car that resembled this one. And I see this guy, and he's just smoking a cigarette, and he just gives me, like, a little look.

10:37And I said, oh, I can't leave her here. You know, it's like the mama bear comes out. Maggie says she waited for 20 minutes until he finally left. When she brought it up with Molly that evening, Molly didn't seem concerned. She says, oh, no, Ma, it's just fishermen. I'm not afraid. The next day, when Molly disappeared, Maggie told the police about what she had seen.

11:00Erin Moriarty:That became very significant because now we had a piece of information. A sketch was composed based on Maggie's description, and it was released to the public. This is the individual that we're looking for in that white car. I had seen the hair. It was gray. It was very thick. It's just that smoking, you know, that doggone smoking. That's what I remembered. Almost immediately, hundreds of tips started flooding in. If you were a 50-year-old white male with a mustache and salt and pepper hair, somebody may have wanted to give us a call. Many months later, authorities released a second, different sketch.

11:41I believe that this sketch is a remarkable sketch, and it's very distinctive,

11:48Erin Moriarty:and I think it's going to help us a great deal. But still, no Molly. I think that's what makes this case so difficult. You know, you have so many people who resemble that sketch.

12:08You know, when time kept going and passing, you knew it wasn't good. You just know that somebody either has her, and that's horrendous. And then, almost three years after Molly disappeared... disappeared. Live from Warren, Kathy Curran, WBZ 4 News. Police were notified that a bathing suit had been found in the woods just five miles from Cummins Pond. It's the first major break in this case in years and a very anxious time for Molly's parents.

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13:47Erin Moriarty:Download the Instacart app now and get groceries just how you like it.

14:03Do you remember the very first time you came here? Yes, I do. It was May of 2003. We came here from what we thought would be the recovery of Molly Bish. Three years after Molly Bish disappeared, Dr. Anne Marie Myers, a forensic anthropologist for the Boston Medical Examiner's Office, was summoned by police to the area known as Whiskey Hill, located about five miles from Cummins Pond.

14:36This is how we came in at first. So right above us here are these rock ledges, and this is where the bathing suit was found. A local hunter had stumbled upon pieces of a weather-beaten blue bathing suit, much like the one that Molly Bish was wearing when she disappeared. When I saw the bathing suit, I said, this has probably been up here for roughly three years. And how could you tell? It was covered by deadfall, so leaves and debris from three years of foliage dropping. But then it had also grown into the surface and roots had come up through it. I arrived with my photographer and I was let in.

15:19Acting on a tip, Kathy Curran and her crew got there in time to take pictures of the bathing suit. What's going through your head? I was sick to my stomach. just thinking about Maggie and John and knowing what it could mean. As Kathy left Whiskey Hill, she called Maggie. And she said, you know, could you show us the video? And I said, Maggie, you know, I really don't want to do that, but you know if that's what you want to do I want to do whatever I can to help. She just had a little van and had the six little TVs or whatever inside and she showed it to us. So distinctive.

16:22Erin Moriarty:It looks like hers.

16:35And I knew, I knew there was a mouse being too right then and there. Let's go in the house. And I went up, I locked myself in the room. I cried so hard, there was nothing. I was gut wrenched. It was one of the toughest days of my career.

16:57because, you know, for three years, there was still hope. And she knew at that moment that something was drastically wrong and something horrible had happened. Investigators sent the bathing suit to the Massachusetts State Police Lab and a private lab in Virginia for DNA testing. So now we've got to search the area and see if we can find evidence that can help us determine what happened up there.

17:37As they waited for DNA results, under Dr. Meyer's instruction,

17:42Erin Moriarty:You all know what we're looking for? a new search was launched.

17:52And that's when I basically said, we're going to grid this area. Anyone who has compasses, we're working off 110 Aspen. 110 magnetic. We did grid searching arm to arm. They were within sight of each other. They raked. They combed the forest with rakes. And had any of that area been searched before? No. When John Bisch arrived to the scene, Dr. Myers assured him of one thing. You know, I looked him straight in the face and I shook his hand and I said, Mr. Bisch, if your daughter's remains are here, we're going to bring her home to you. DA John Conti announced that the DNA results came back as inconclusive.

18:38The search continued and intensified.

18:45And it was the biggest search that's ever been conducted in Massachusetts history. And almost two weeks later, they made an horrific discovery.

18:56Erin Moriarty:This afternoon, we did discover a human bone. It's the upper arm bone, and Dr. Myers does describe it as the bone of a person between 14 and 20 years of age. What did that feel like to finally find a bone? Unbelievable, but immediately I thought of the family. We've now established the area as a crime scene area. As days went by, investigators would come to find more human bones. It was like every day they came with small rib bones. It was like agonizing and they were trying to find Ma. And we went out every morning, we thanked the searchers. We were so grateful that people would continue to look and help us find Ma.

19:48By the end of the three-week search, investigators found as many as 27 bones and a human skull spread across 35 acres of forest. It was confirmed through DNA testing and dental identification that the bones were Molly's. Dr. Myers believes that Molly's killer most likely picked Whiskey Hill because of its hidden location. Do you believe the killer might have been a hunter? Being that familiar with the area? It's possible. It's possible. She also believes that after Molly was killed, a mountain lion may have scattered her remains, among the 35 acres of forest. I often felt that the person knew the area and knew that there was a large animal up there.

Read the full transcript

20:48We want to tell you that Molly's come home.

20:54We are extremely saddened. the depth of our sadness no family should have to endure. With the discovery of her sister's remains, Heather had a hard time accepting the tragic news. I wanted to run away, honestly. I just wanted to run outside of this nightmare and this life and maybe even my own body. But I remember feeling like I wanted to run away immensely. The search for Molly Bish was now over. But the search for her killer was never more urgent.

22:01Two months after Molly Bish's bones were discovered, in August of 2003, on what would have been her 20th birthday, Molly was laid to rest.

22:15Erin Moriarty:We commend you now to the loving care of the Lord of us all. We were so blessed. We got to have it in a church.

22:34But after three years, the Bishes still had no answers as to who could have murdered Molly. And the man in the white car, who Maggie had seen the day before Molly disappeared, had never been identified.

22:50Erin Moriarty:Frustrating is a reoccurring word in this case. Maggie wasn't the only one who reported seeing a suspicious white car in the vicinity, say investigators. On the day that Molly went missing, a white car was spotted at a car wash right down the street from the pond, and again in the cemetery behind the pond. So where is Cummings Pond, right from here? It's that direction, straight down. And you can see there's a path opening there. Yes. So somebody saw a white car where right down on that road down there? So is the thought that if somebody brought their car down there, they could maybe grab her, pull her back up, get in the car before?

23:37Erin Moriarty:That's a theory. In fact, in the early days of the investigation, search dogs did follow Molly's scent from the pond leading up to the cemetery. You don't just stumble upon Cummins Pond. That's why the person who killed Molly Bish had to have watched her, and they had to have had a plan. But there were still so many unanswered questions, like why was the first aid kit left open? Kathy Curran believes that Molly's abductor may have pretended to be injured. And then someone either forced her or threatened her to get her up that hill. Because she's athletic. She's not going to go easily. Then in May of 2004, four years after Molly disappeared, DA John Conte called for a grand jury to be convened.

24:39Whenever you hear a grand jury in a criminal case, you think, oh, they have evidence against someone. So the hope was that the case was moving forward. Heather, along with her family, were called to testify. They say that many of the DA's questions seemed to be focused on Molly's friends. I remember we were all kind of like mad because we didn't feel like they were really significant. But detectives had learned that some of Molly's friends had gathered at her boyfriend Stephen Lucas' house the morning of Molly's disappearance. We have a timeline. And they were telling police conflicting stories about what happened in the hours before and after Molly went missing.

25:30The grand jury transcripts are sealed, so it is not known whom the investigators actually questioned. but they would later clear Stephen Lucas as a person of interest. After two long years in December of 2006, the grand jury was dismissed without an indictment. It was disappointing. It was incredibly disappointing. Just weeks after the grand jury was dismissed, John Conte retired, and Joe Early Jr. took over as Worcester District Attorney. He says the grand jury was used as an investigative tool to preserve witnesses' testimony. You get them right in, you get them under oath, and there's a criminal penalty if they lie in the grand jury.

26:24And they can't say later, I didn't say that, because it's right there. And that is something that helps us get cases beyond a reasonable doubt and prove guilt. But Heather says not having answers as to who murdered her sister was taking its toll. I was giving up hope in a lot of areas. And things only got worse. In 2007, her father, John Bish, who worked so closely with police, had a stroke. Heather would now face the daunting task to take over where her father had left off. and it would not be easy. The police have always stayed very careful about what they'd let us know. The police kept saying, we're just one piece of information away.

27:12Well, where is that piece? In 2008, a man who resembled the sketch named Rodney Stanger was arrested for murdering his girlfriend in Florida. The victim's sister reached out to Heather and claimed that Stanger may have been involved in Molly's murder as well. He has this violent history. He lived very close to where Molly trained to be a lifeguard. Was he a smoker? He was also a smoker. He was known to fish at Cummins Pond and hunt in the area where Molly was found. Police were notified about this tip, But Heather says she was told that Stanger had been on one of the investigators' lists of persons of interest from the very beginning.

28:01Erin Moriarty:I've actually visited him in prison. Sean Murphy is a lieutenant with the Massachusetts State Police. He didn't have much to say to me, but I attempted. And so have other investigators as well. Stanger was convicted of murdering his girlfriend and was sentenced to 25 years in prison. In 2012, state police went down to Florida again to search Stanger's trailer. We did execute a search warrant at his residence with our law enforcement partners, and we did take items. Detective Murphy says the items were tested for DNA to see if they could be connected to Molly. We've tested and continue to test and move forward.

28:48But there was not enough evidence to make him an official suspect. And then in 2011, a private investigator came to Heather with a new tip about a man named Gerald Battistoni. He had actually raped a woman in the woods where Molly was found. His ex-wife had a white car that she reported he was driving in Warren the day Molly disappeared. Heather says she took this tip to the state police, who have confirmed the Badastoni, who died in prison in 2014, was on their radar along with many others.

29:30Erin Moriarty:There are times you could say, this person's really good for this, this person's really good for that. But that's not how you solve a crime. You have to have the evidence to support it. Finally, in 2021, 21 years after Molly disappeared, it looked like investigators had enough evidence. The district attorney's office officially named a person of interest. For the first time, I thought, this is it. there will be justice.

30:14On June 3rd, 2021, more than two decades after Molly Bish disappeared, there was finally news. Tonight, a break in the murder of Molly Bish. More than 20 years after the teenager was killed, investigators have named a new person of interest. We named the person of interest. But you had never done that before. Never done that, never done that in this case. But we did get more information to come in. We pursued those leads. And at that point, I was comfortable saying, this person is a person of interest. Yes. Francis Frank Sumner Sr. was a local auto repair shop owner with an extensive criminal record.

30:58Kathy Curran was the first to report the details. Frank Sumner seemed like a great suspect. Frank Sumner has a violent past. He was convicted of rape and kidnapping. Was he familiar with the area? He was familiar with the area. He was from the area. He had access to a white car. And when you compare the photo of him smoking the cigarette to the sketch, You can see a resemblance there. And just like the sketch, Sumner was photographed smoking with his left hand. DA Joe Early says Sumner, who died in 2016, had been well known to investigators working the Bish case for years. What made Frank Sumner rise to that top to actually be called a suspect?

31:53Information that came in, some dots that were connected. Although tight-lipped about the details, the Worcester DA's office was confident that Sumner was a viable suspect and planned to compare his DNA to DNA found at the crime scenes. But as it turned out, they couldn't obtain Sumner's DNA. Sumner had been cremated, and his DNA had never been submitted to the National CODIS database. I don't know who dropped the ball, but somebody dropped the ball. So authorities traveled to Ohio to get DNA from his son, Frank Sumner Jr. He was serving time in prison for robbery. And so we waited, and we waited, because they said we're going to do some DNA analysis.

32:46Heather, who had started that TikTok months earlier, reached out to her followers to see if she could drum up more evidence. If you know something, if you heard something, please call the state police tip line. We are still waiting for answers. Heather says it took investigators about a year before they finally told her the results of the DNA testing. It was inconclusive. What do you mean inconclusive? Was he eliminated from the DNA? I don't know what that means. Oh, you don't? And they won't tell me. Heather wonders if authorities who collected discarded cigarettes and other evidence at Cummins Pond even have a viable sample of the killer's DNA.

33:37Do you have enough DNA that you could do genetic genealogy? And have you done any? I can't speak to the DNA. I can't speak in this way. We continue to test, and we've gotten well over 100 pieces of information tested, and we continue to test. You know that the Bishes have been frustrated. They don't feel they're getting enough information from your office. They want to know, is the DNA being preserved properly? What kind of DNA? There's a general rule of thumb. No matter what family it is, the Bishes are the families that we have. We just don't share the information because someone might say something they shouldn't say and it can compromise the entire case.

34:21However, he says DNA is just one piece of the puzzle. This isn't just a DNA case. There's a lot of investigation that's been done. We need a little bit more. I'm not going to say what it is, but we need a little bit more to get to where we need to get to name a person as a defendant in this case. But Heather says she's losing faith in the investigators. It's really a sad situation to be a victim family member in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. Investigator Sean Murphy says he understands Heather's frustration.

35:00Erin Moriarty:Heather is a fierce advocate for her sister and her family, and I wouldn't have it any other way. And I have no problem being held accountable by Heather, and I'm happy that she holds me accountable. 25 years after Molly Bish's murder, the case remains active. And there is a new detective who has recently joined the investigation. She has a plan. When I dedicate myself to something, I do not stop until it's accomplished.

35:45In March of 2025, Detective Chelsea Safford was hired to take over the Bish investigation.

36:02Erin Moriarty:It's a perfect job for someone that has an overactive mind, thrives on challenges, and and doesn't sleep much. One of her first tasks has been to weed through and organize over 80 boxes of case files that have accumulated over the years. I saw all those boxes and I just wanted to dive in. I just wanted to learn more. Detective Safford believes the answer to who killed Molly may just lie within these 80 boxes. This one, I found Molly's high school yearbook. book and I went through that, you know, that I have a few tips that I was trying to track down. It's part of her strategy. These are all tips.

36:50To organize and look at past tips with fresh eyes.

36:56Erin Moriarty:Who else might have heard or seen something that they didn't realize was significant? That one person that we haven't spoken to, they might be the missing piece that we've been searching for this entire time. I believe that that one more piece is out there. I just have to keep digging. And Detective Safford faces an overwhelming task. She says there has been almost 8 ,000 tips that have come in since Molly went missing, and they keep coming. I can honestly say that since I've been in this office, I don't think a week has gone by where we haven't received a Molly if not multiple, throughout the weeks.

37:35Detective Safford says she's also studying the many pieces of evidence involved in Molly's case. She allowed 48 hours to accompany her to the Massachusetts State Police Crime Lab's DNA Cold Storage Facility in Sudbury, Massachusetts. Boy, it's slippery in here. Sherry Middlehoser is a forensic support section manager at the crime lab. And what am I looking at right in front of me?

38:05Erin Moriarty:So this is a bay full of evidence. And all of these items here go with the Molly Bish case. Inside some of these brown paper bags are items taken from the crime scenes. Is the swimsuit here? It is. It's this one, I believe. I don't think it says it on it, but I know it was sent out for additional testing. Are there any cigarettes here or any? There definitely are cigarettes. containers, ABC. There are a lot of them in ABC. ABC is this one here. They've been repackaged over the time. And they've been tested? Oh, yeah. Chelsea, are you going to be looking at this to see if there's something else?

38:46You're thinking, why don't we try to test that? Absolutely. Yeah. Today, Detective Safford has her eye on one piece of evidence in particular, Molly's backpack. I'll tell you, this is the number one item that I've been looking for. Why?

39:01Erin Moriarty:I think what we carry in our backpack or a pocketbook, I think it says a lot. And I personally think learning about the person, the victim, I think is a very important part of each case.

39:19Despite the challenges, Detective Safford says she is determined to find answers for the Bish family. None of us can bring Molly back, but the best thing I can do is find out what happened. I see you have some of these solved, guilty, captured. Is that what you want to do in this case? It's not what I want to do. It's what I'm going to do. Yes. We. We will do it. Heather Bish, who has been critical of the Massachusetts State Police investigation in the past, says she is encouraged by Detective Safford's passion. I feel like she has the same energy and commitment to solving this as I do. Heather still makes TikTok videos about Molly's case, hoping her efforts will one day generate a tip that can help investigators.

40:12Somebody knows something, and somebody knows who killed Molly Bish. I will never give up. I'll fight. Molly deserves that justice. DA Joe Early Jr. insists that investigators are moving in the right direction. As you sit here, is Frank Sumner still on the top of the list of people of interest? He's the only person of interest we've named. The only person of interest that's been named in this case, yes. On June 27, 2025, the Bish family gathered with friends and family to remember Molly 25 years after her death.

40:53Erin Moriarty:Trust eternal grant unto her, O Lord. First at the cemetery. Let light perpetual shine upon her. And then at a more formal ceremony in the center of Warren. I feel her beside me. Because of Molly, I have become braver than I ever thought possible. I have faced my deepest fears I have endured unimaginable heartbreak I have survived I believe Molly's love and light have guided us through these 25 years so today we share our family's gratitude and because of Molly we have conquered what evil could not for love is much stronger

41:47The evening ended with a gathering at Cummins Pond. I don't want people to ever forget Molly. And we will never stop honoring her.

42:07Erin Moriarty:If you have any information that can help authorities find Molly's killer, please reach out to the Molly Bish tip line. 508-453-7575

From the publisher

With her sister’s murder long unsolved, a woman turns to TikTok pleading for leads. Can you help? Erin Moriarty reports.

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