Post Mortem | The Han Family Murders

0:10Natalie Morales:Welcome to Postmortem. I'm your host, Anne-Marie Green, and today we're discussing the Hahn family murders. In March of 2016, the bodies of Dr. Henry Hahn, his wife Jenny, and their five-year-old daughter Emily were discovered wrapped in plastic in the family's garage. Now, there is a lot to get into here. So joining me now is 48 Hours correspondent Natalie Morales, who worked on this hour. Natalie, thanks for joining us again. Thanks for having me once again, Anne-Marie. And of course, a reminder to everyone that if you haven't listened to the 48 Hours episode that we're about to discuss, head on over to your podcast feed.

0:49Natalie Morales:You'll find the full audio version there. Take a listen and then come on back. So shortly after police discover the bodies of Dr. Hahn and his wife, Jenny, and their daughter, a trail of evidence led them to Pierre Hobbs. He's a former business associate of Dr. Hahn's. And in the hour, the prosecutor called Pierre a lying liar who lies about lying. It certainly seems like he was able to spin stories quite well, well enough to, I mean, endear himself to some pretty smart people. What do we actually know about Pierre, though, and his connection to Dr. Hahn? Well, Dr. Henry Hahn had hired Pierre to develop a CBD product, and it was part of his new business venture that he had started with a couple of other partners.

1:45But he then fired Pierre once he discovered that Pierre had been using his credit card to charge for escort services, among other things, on his business account. However, just weeks before the murders, it seemed like Pierre was able to get back into Henry's good graces. Now, prosecutors, as you mentioned, describe him as a lying liar who lies about lying, and they describe him as a career con man. I should point out he was never convicted of previous cons, but Pierre did tell authorities, though, that he didn't have a college degree, but he lived in a college town in Arizona. He would go to the library a lot.

2:29He was self-taught. He was fascinated with the idea of energy and technology. According to prosecutors, this wasn't his first con. Allegedly, Pierre had duped a group of investors in Arizona into giving him money to build this so-called perpetual energy machine. And his story then just grew from there.

2:50Natalie Morales:You know, Pierre's like one of those sort of characters that we see that you think, gosh, you're able to endear yourself to many, many people who are smart and who are good with money. if only you had funneled that in a different direction, you know. But let's talk about this perpetual energy machine. Pierre's own attorney said in the hour that you don't have to be a scientist to know that a perpetual energy machine does not exist. Yeah, it implies it just, you know, creates its own energy source. So according to the prosecution, Pierre apparently did demonstrations for this group of investors back in Arizona.

3:28However, in those demos, twice, they found an external energy source that was sort of plugged into this so-called perpetual energy machine. The first time, apparently, there was, you know, like a car battery that it was connected to. And the second time, investors actually traced back and they found what were like wires running underground into this prototype. So, you know, we did try to reach out to these investors in Arizona. Unfortunately, we didn't hear back from any of them.

4:01Natalie Morales:I think what was particularly challenging about this hour is, of course, you know, there's a young child who's killed. He kills the entire family. And I was hoping as the hour was unfolding to hear and they found Emily in the bedroom sleeping or something like that. I just I thought, why a child? I think that's the hardest thing to try to understand, wiping out the whole family the way he did and little Emily, who was just three days shy of her sixth birthday. You know, hard to believe that money was purely the motive here. But prosecutors believe that Pierre had targeted Henry Hahn because he was flat broke.

4:41I think he had five hundred dollars left in his bank account, according to the prosecutor. Also, Pierre was apparently desperate for a real relationship so much to the point, as we told you, he was hiring escorts to have companionship. And apparently he fell in love, according to the prosecutor, with one of the escorts and outright gave that that escort a ten thousand dollar payment. So there went more money. Now, Pierre had told people, including his friend T.J. Dorita, that he wanted to move to Russia because he felt he clicked more with the women there. And Pierre's friend, TJ, also told investigators that Pierre confessed to him, as you saw in the hour about the murders.

5:28But he said in that confession that his his motive was purely financial, that he planned to drain the money out of Dr. Henry Hahn's account. He said that, You know, as long as he felt like he kept making these transfers, perhaps no one would be the wiser for it. You know, once he did start to try to make those transfers, I believe the first amount was seventy two thousand dollars that he tried to take out of Dr. Henry Hahn's account. Well, that triggered a bank fraud alert, as you would hope. The banks are on to this kind of thing. And that transaction never went through.

6:03Natalie Morales:I mean, I don't know why he thought that would work. I literally get a bank fraud alert when I try to buy like a train ticket. I mean, the banks are really sensitive to this stuff these days. Right. So. Right. Especially this went against Dr. Hahn's usual. I mean, usually if there were big transfers like that, maybe it would pass. But in this case, Dr. Henry Hahn wasn't that kind of man to just transfer that amount of money like that. So here's the thing about the scene. This is a guy who thinks he's planned everything out, but then he's left with a very, I mean, messy crime scene that he tries to clean up, but he's kind of unsuccessful.

6:44Natalie Morales:Investigators find bleach stains and bloody sheets in the laundry room and very quickly police zero in on Pierre as a person of interest. Yeah, I mean, that's right. The prosecutors believe that, you know, Pierre's plan was to get rid of the bodies, to clean up the scene, make it look like the Hans were actually missing instead of dead. But he doesn't account for the weight of the bodies and being able to fit the bodies, all three of them, in his car. Keep in mind, there was this business meeting that very next morning. and Mark and Marla Palumbo, friends and business partners of Dr. Hans, they start to call and they're worried.

7:25And that's when they send Don Goldberg, you know, who's such a good friend of Dr. Hans, to go check out the house. And that's when investigators have been called to the house and they discover the bodies and this horrific crime scene.

7:38Natalie Morales:The other kind of component to this investigation is that there was a huge amount of digital evidence that led investigators to Pierre. So this is a guy who's supposed to be pretty savvy, right, when it comes to computers, but he leaves like this tremendous digital footprint. Right. Let's let's start first with the fact that he had placed this key logger device on Dr. Han's computer, but also he left it plugged into his computer so that all the keystrokes were basically tracing right back to Pierre's computer. Security video was also found placing him at an Arizona gun store four days prior to the murders, purchasing ammunition and two firearms, including the alleged murder weapon.

8:24Now, investigators also traced the plastic wrap that was found used to wrap the bodies to a Home Depot in Oceanside, that's Southern California, right near where Pierre lived. So they go to that Home Depot. And as you know, with Home Depots, they have great surveillance footage. So they had footage of him leaving the Home Depot with that plastic wrap and also duct tape.

8:47Natalie Morales:I was also impressed with how rapidly Home Depot was able to pinpoint where these purchases were made. I feel like I've done several postmortems where we've talked about Home Depot being like clutch when it came to investigating. It's remarkable. I mean, I just reported on another story in the Fandridge case where the video surveillance footage from Home Depot was crystal clear. It could spot the suspect at the time leaving with a big package of goods and even having the receipts. You know, Home Depot keeps track of the receipts. So once they identify the time of purchase, they can go back into their receipts and their computer system.

9:28And that's where they then are able to track the surveillance footage as well.

9:32Natalie Morales:Yeah, it's unbelievable. And then Pierre was also captured on surveillance camera meeting his father in a Walmart parking lot. That's where the father gave him two big duffel bags, which investigators say were go bags. Go bags meaning, you know, a bag that had enough supplies and clothing that he could live on for months. We should say Pierre's father was not charged with any crime in that. There was no indication that that Pierre's father was involved in any way, according to the prosecutor. But Pierre also took with him the victim's phones. He had wrapped the phones in an aluminum foil trying to evade any sort of tracking.

10:19Natalie Morales:I had no idea wrapping phones in aluminum foil was a thing, but it doesn't seem like it would work. Not always. And in this case, you know, it was it was maybe. not wrapped well enough, but investigators were able to track one of the phones. It was pinging all the way to Oceanside, California. Yeah, it actually became really sort of pivotal when it comes to the investigation. So after the break, we're going to talk about that. We're also going to talk about his defense in court.

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12:01Natalie Morales:Welcome back. So investigators closed in on Pierre at a gas station in the Oceanside, California area. He was arrested nearly 48 hours after the murder. Not a lot of time goes by. And ultimately, the evidence points to Pierre and no one else as the Hans killer. Yeah, I mean, and the evidence, there was plenty of it right in Pierre's car. I mean, they found Henry's wallet, his credit card, social security number, an expended shell casing, which would trace back to the bullets that were found in the victims, the victims' phones. And as I pointed out earlier, all wrapped in aluminum foil as if trying to evade being tracked.

12:44They also uncovered some pretty damning Internet searches, according to investigators Pierre made in the hours following the murder. You know, he asked, is a car searched when entering Tijuana? How do crime scene investigations work? How long does it take for fingerprints to process? and the interesting one, he consulted an online psychic named Count Marco and he asked, will I get caught for what I did? And Count Marco replied, what did you do, Pierre? Well, you know, and think investigators were the ones who were able to answer that. Yes, Pierre, you will get caught. And he did.

13:22Natalie Morales:Indeed, absolutely. It's a very smart response and I wonder how much those psychics hear And you know what I mean? And you wouldn't want the confessions they get. Can you imagine? And also you would I'm sure they don't want to be wrapped up or implicated in anything. So just, you know, keep it vague. Keep it vague. So as we discussed a little bit earlier, Pierre had actually confessed to murdering the Han family to a friend of his, TJ Derita, just hours afterwards. While Pierre was in custody, detectives get a phone call from TJ who then tells them about Pierre's confession. But he waited two days, Natalie, and I kept on wondering, like, what are you doing?

14:09Natalie Morales:What took you so long? I know, and we asked TJ Dorita that point blank. You know, he said that Pierre always told these bizarre outlandish stories, so he wasn't quite sure what to believe at that point. He was making phone calls to all of Dr. Henry Hahn's office, to his business associates, trying to track him down to see what was true, what wasn't true. Now, once TJ learned that the murders had happened, he said he then started to worry that the police would think that he was somehow involved. So TJ said he was so scared he called his brother, who happens to be a judge. His brother told him, you need to go to the police right away.

14:51Tell your story. You know, make sure they know what's what's real and what happened here. The defense at trial, of course, they they saw this as as an opportunity to poke holes in what TJ told in his testimony. They questioned if you were so scared, why didn't you go to police right away? Because police would have protected him. And they also questioned TJ's credibility because TJ had worked in the porn industry and in the marketing area of the porn industry. as TJ said, he worked with some rough around the edges kinds of friends. The judge felt, though, that that line of questioning was irrelevant.

15:31And the defense had to concede in this case. Much of what TJ Dorita testified to was corroborated by the evidence. And even in those text exchanges with Pierre in the aftermath. Yeah.

15:45Natalie Morales:It seems like before learning about the murders, TJ had sort of some sympathy for Pierre. Do we know, I mean, how this friendship started, what the nature of their friendship was, why he kind of felt sorry for him? TJ says he felt sorry for Pierre because he saw Pierre as being very socially awkward. You know, Pierre would share with him the stories of not being able to get a date, not being able to have a real relationship. And TJ said he was always that guy in high school that stuck up for the kids who were bullied. He was just that kind of guy. So he tried to make him feel like he belonged.

16:25Pierre would send him pictures of himself working out at 4 a.m., looking all buff, just to try to make himself feel like he and TJ could hang and be friends. And TJ said he just kind of went along with it because he felt bad for him.

16:42Natalie Morales:Wow. So the thing about Pierre, though, is he strikes me once again as one of those characters who thinks he's a little bit smarter than he actually is. Right. So he waives his Miranda rights and he talks to detectives without his attorney present. I want to play a clip of the detectives questioning Pierre about the Hahn murders.

17:33So just a reminder for those who watched the episode, Pierre admits he was at the house. He'd stayed with them the night before. But there he is talking to investigators and he's trying to make up this, you know, trying to tell them that he's clueless in all of this. And he spins this fantastical story about how he was being targeted by these shadowy figures that were wanting his perpetual energy machine. And he said that he had engaged in three different shootouts and that he felt like his life was in danger as well as the life of his father and his sister. So he said he was afraid for them. And I asked his defense attorney in the hour, well, then if he tells this whole fantastical story, you would assume there would be a trail of bodies.

18:24And, you know, she had to acknowledge, of course, there was there was no such record of any of that.

18:31Natalie Morales:Yeah. I mean, three different shootouts. That would be pretty easy for police to verify. Yeah. This sounded like a spy thriller more than it was actual in actual life. Yeah. So ultimately, though, Pierre is charged with three counts of first degree murder. The DA's office agrees to waive the death penalty in exchange for a more expedient bench trial, which means it's only a judge, no jury. A judge is going to render the verdict. Pierre decides to take the stand. And what did he hope to convey to the judge? You know, at least when you're taking the stand in front of a jury, there's a possibility that one person may be influenced.

19:14Natalie Morales:But a judge, I mean, that's that's quite a challenge. His defense attorney said that he wanted to be vindicated. He really seemed to believe what he was saying. Now, I think he also believed that he could convince the courts. I mean, here's a guy, as you said, very persuasive. He's managed to convince, allegedly, these investors who went along with his so-called energy machine plan back when he was living in Arizona. So maybe he thought, well, you know, I can convince the court as well. He shared a lot of detail in his testimony, though. A lot of it didn't make sense, according to to the prosecutor, Ben Lodinig.

19:58Pierre's explanation on the stand for the murders was that he was being framed by the Department of Energy that any incriminating physical or digital evidence, he said, had been planted by the Department of Energy. Again, there's no evidence pointing to the Department of Energy in any of this. His defense attorney asked Pierre on the stand if he had ever been diagnosed with a mental illness. Pierre denied that. So, you know, I think she was trying to allude to the fact that Pierre perhaps might have had an undiagnosed mental illness.

20:33Natalie Morales:Right. Giving him some sort of excuse, I guess, in a way for the behavior. Yeah. And then Pierre was found guilty of murdering the Hahn family. On April 15th, 2022, he's sentenced to three life terms without the possibility of parole. So he appeals the conviction through the California courts. And while his appeal was pending, he also petitioned the U.S. Supreme Court to release him. In March of 2025, the court denied his final petition. So is there any further legal action that Pierre can take at this point? Well, I believe that he could file other petitions or motions, perhaps based on, you know, if there's new information or evidence.

21:16But all of that, again, is is hypothetical. You know, whatever legal recourse he thinks he might have, though, you know, there's just so much evidence, as we see in this case, against him. It's hard to believe that any further motions that anything could come of that.

21:32Natalie Morales:Yeah, yeah. You know, to hear Dr. Hahn's friends talk about him, I mean, he wasn't just a nice guy and a good friend. He really did change people's lives. And here's a guy who, a little bit later on in life, finds the love of his life and has this beautiful child. I mean, these are people doing everything right. There's just so much potential cut short. And I think that's truly who Dr. Henry Hahn and his whole family was. I mean, Dr. Henry Hahn really believed that he could help people and was doing that. We talked to a few of the cancer survivors that he worked with who talked so lovingly about his healing powers.

22:18They believed, you know, that he really was the real deal. And in the darkest moments of their lives, he was the one who was there for them. And yeah, it's hard to even imagine the loss of little Emily, you know, as I said, just a couple of days before her birthday. I mean, I think that's especially heartbreaking. And I think I'll end this by, you know, saying again what Don Goldberg said. A good man's name is his legacy. Nearly a decade later, they're all remembered by those who knew and loved them.

22:51Natalie Morales:yeah that that was very very obvious um it was a really good story natalie thank you annemarie and to our listeners uh if you like this podcast please rate and review on apple podcast or on spotify