Post Mortem | The Mother I Wish I Knew

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1:10Natalie Morales:Welcome back to Postmortem. I'm your host, Anne-Marie Green. And joining me today is 48 Hours correspondent, Natalie Morales. We are going to discuss the case of Deborah Atrops. Now, back in 1988, the young mother was found strangled to death in the trunk of her car in Oregon. For decades, her murder remained unsolved, and it would take 37 years to bring her killer to justice. Joining me now is Natalie. Hi, Anne-Marie. Good to be with you. Hey, Natalie. It's always good to be with you. This is one of those hours that I just kind of went back and forth. I was so convinced that they, you know, that they had the right suspect and then they had the wrong suspect.

1:49I just I was ping ponging. I think even for me, as I was reporting on this case, it was I was very conflicted. Even our producers, we were conflicted. But this case was cold for over 30 years. So really, it was all about figuring out what new evidence could be presented at trial.

2:07Natalie Morales:If you haven't listened to the 48 Hours episode yet, you can find the full audio version just below this episode in your podcast feed. Go take a listen and then come on back for the conversation. Deborah, or Debbie Atrops, was last seen alive on Tuesday, November 29th, 1988. Her husband, Bob Atrops, first reported her missing to Oregon police when she said she never arrived to pick up their baby daughter, Rihanna, from Bob's house. So I should point out that Bob and her, they are estranged, right? So they have been separated. But Bob calls the police, like, pretty quickly after he felt that she should have been picking up their daughter.

2:50Natalie Morales:He tells them that Debbie was running about three hours late from a hairdressing appointment. So to me, this was, like, the first indication. Like, very early on, I thought, oh, yeah, he's the one. Because I just, it just seemed like three hours was too soon to be calling the police. And at least in the portion of the 911 call that we heard, it's not like he said, I've been everywhere. I went to her apartment. I called the hairdresser. Like it just something about the 911 call seemed off. Yeah, all valid points, Anne-Marie. And actually, it really wasn't even three hours because her appointment ended at 7.15.

3:23She was expected back at Bob Atrop's house around 7.30, 8 o 'clock. So he's calling really less than two hours after that time frame. And police, well, Detective O 'Connell, I should say, who was one of the initial people who was on this case, he said that felt strange to him, too. It's sort of that Shakespearean, you know, that quote, thou doth protest too much. And prosecutors believe those phone calls were almost to try to make police believe that he wasn't involved.

4:00Natalie Morales:Interesting. Now, he does say back in 1988, he tells police that he called other people. He says he called the babysitter, called Debbie's boss and her parents from his home phone. But the problem with that is that it couldn't be confirmed because there was no record of these phone calls on his home phone. And they were long distance. So they should have been a record someplace. Yeah. And I should remind people, this is 1988. This is Oregon. So calling from one town to the other town, that could sometimes be a long distance call. Bob lived about 30 miles from where Debbie's parents lived. So all these phone calls should have been recorded somewhere as long distance calls on a phone bill.

4:43So it became a big part of the mystery was where are these calls? Now, we know that he did place these calls because Debbie's parents did confirm and her stepfather confirmed that they received the calls. the babysitter confirmed that she received a call. So the question is, where did he make the calls from? Investigators believe that Bob maybe had, you know, committed the murder and was just trying to get rid of the car and dispose of Debbie's body. And that's when he made those calls as he was out and about. Were they looking for, I don't know, public telephone, like telephone boots or whatever?

5:20They actually went around and looked at all the public pay phones that they could find. They tried to get phone records off the payphones. But that said, you can't go around and trace and track every payphone in the neighborhood. I should also say the one phone call that Bob didn't make, which was very telling to investigators, was he didn't try to call Debbie's house. Now, remember, they're estranged. So she has an apartment in Salem, Oregon, And he never even calls the apartment and never goes to the apartment either to try to see if she ended up deciding to go straight home. So that was very telling to investigators.

6:02Bob Aitrops explained that away as saying, well, I had already called Debbie's parents and they said she had not gone home.

6:12Natalie Morales:OK, so, you know, sadly, Debbie is not a missing person for very long. Less than two days later, police discovered her abandoned car near a construction site. And then inside, they discovered Debbie's body face down in the trunk of her car. She had been strangled, but no signs of sexual assault. So at this point, I would think the only person to look at would be Bob. Did police zero in on him as a suspect right away? Well, you know, obviously, as we have reported all too often, the partner or the spouse, or in this case, the estranged spouse, is definitely the first person they consider and they look at.

6:52And they did search outside Bob's house. They, in fact, checked his driveway, which was a gravel and muddy sort of driveway. They took pictures of that driveway. They even took a mud sample of the driveway and the lawn as well, because on the top of the car, the hood of the car, it appeared there had been some mud evidence that had been wiped away on Debbie Atrop's body, on her coat. They found mud on her shoes. They were muddied as well. So they were trying to match the sample of mud specifically and also trying to verify the tire tracks. Now, they never could verify her tire tracks on his driveway.

7:30A lot of people, a lot of friends were visiting in the time that he reported Debbie missing. Obviously, a lot of people very concerned about Debbie. So the police were never able to definitively say whether or not Debbie had come back to the house based on tire tracks.

7:47Natalie Morales:So then let's talk about their relationship. We know they were strange, but I mean, do we know anything about the nature of their relationship at the time that she goes missing? She was living, as I said, in this whole other apartment. She was also involved in an entirely new relationship with a man named John Pearson. Friends said that Debbie was very afraid of Bob finding out that she was already dating this guy, John Pearson, with somebody she worked with. And Bob apparently knew her boss. They were good friends. So it wouldn't be, you know, too crazy for him to find out. But Debbie's friend, Tammy Nelson, also said back in 1988 that Bob Aydrops had a temper, that he had actually had choked her, according to Debbie, shortly before she moved out.

8:35And, you know, she had even told friends, if something happens to me, Bob did it.

8:40Natalie Morales:Yeah, those are definitely some famous last words. But she is dating this other person, John Pearson, which is what started me when I was watching The Hour moving away from Bob as a suspect. He was interviewed by police. He told police that he had been with his estranged wife and children on the night of Debbie's disappearance. But he also gave a detailed description, a really detailed description of Debbie's car and what was in the trunk. And it just I know I can't even tell you really what's in my trunk right now. So it just seems like an odd amount of detail to remember, you know? Yeah, I mean, it was a very detailed description of what was in the trunk.

9:26You know, John told police even how could a body even fit in the trunk, which kind of strange like that words to say. He thought the trunk was too small. And so I asked the prosecutors, Alison Brown and Chris Luman, about that. Take a listen. John Pearson told police back then that there was a Burger King bag, as well as a box with cranberries and a child car seat. Seems like a lot of details about the car. I mean, that's not details that I don't think my husband knows what's in my car. That seems like somebody who's very intimately involved with knowing what's in the contents of that vehicle.

10:02Well, and I think we knew that Mr. Pearson had been with her. I mean, he admitted that he'd been with her. They'd been dating and was in that car frequently. And then I think his surprise at how could the body fit in the trunk, I mean, as we mentioned, it was delicately placed in there. It is not a large trunk. And that had to have taken some effort to sort of get Debbie's body in the trunk. Does it seem like an odd commentary, though? I mean, I think they asked him specific questions about the car and its condition, and they were seeing each other every day. I mean, not only were they in a romantic relationship, they both worked at one.

10:41So they would often have lunch together. I think they had lunch together the day prior. And so, you know, he would see her often. And Detective O 'Connell, who interviewed Pearson back in 1988, said that Pearson was actually very forthcoming when he was questioned. He agreed to many interviews, in fact, and that he even took a polygraph. He passed the polygraph. So Detective O 'Connell felt like it wasn't like Pearson was trying to hide anything at the time.

11:09Natalie Morales:OK. And at the time, there's still some question marks about Bob, but there's really no evidence connecting Bob or anyone else to Debbie's murder. So the case goes cold, right? Meanwhile, Bob continues to live life. He raises the couple's daughter, Rihanna. She's in her late 30s right now. You spoke to her. She describes him as a great dad. He's doting and attentive and he's a fantastic grandfather to her three children. She does not believe that he had anything to do with her mother's murder. Yeah, you know, it was heartbreaking speaking with her, of course, because here's a young woman who never even knew her mother.

11:49She was eight months old when her mother died. So she feels that loss still very greatly in her life. And then now she said she feels like she's lost the only person that she feels she could count on her entire life. And that was her father who raised her. And she does feel like he is 100 percent innocent.

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13:19Natalie Morales:Well, decades after Debbie's murder, detectives and prosecutors with the cold case unit start looking at Bob Atrop's again. And we have seen this before, Natalie. Sometimes it's the same evidence, but with fresh eyes and they see things completely different. Fresh eyes and new technology. I mean, keep in mind from 1988 now to, you know, 30 plus years later, how much DNA has changed things when it comes to cold cases. There was, you know, Debbie's coat with that. They take a look at the DNA evidence and they were able to exclude John Pearson and Jeff Freeberg, who was a former ex, but he was no longer romantically involved with Debbie.

14:04However, However, they couldn't definitively exclude Bob Atrop's. Now, the defense points out the amount of DNA that they had was the equivalent of perhaps six skin cells, which is a minute amount. So they said this is like the weakest bit of evidence that you could possibly even have. And they said as well, according to the defense, the fact that they shared custody of Rihanna, it's expected that there would be some sort of cross-contamination with DNA. And remember those soil samples that I talked about from the driveway and the evidence that was on the car. So the FBI analyzed the mud that was found on the tire of the car.

14:46And also they looked at the soil that was taken from Bob Atrop's lawn. And they said that the mud on the tire was indistinguishable from the mud from Bob's lawn in color, composition and texture. So that would be a real compelling piece of evidence. In fact, there became this whole part of the trial that was all about the soil evidence. They had soil experts testify. The defense said, though, when it comes down to it, it's soil that is so commonplace in the Willamette Valley that they're like, how could you definitively say that it's Bob Atrop's lawn?

15:22Natalie Morales:Yeah. And so then detectives do something really interesting. Like one of the holes in Bob's story back then is about these phone calls, right? How come there's no record of these phone calls you say you made? So they re-interview him in 2022, and they ask him again about that night and the phone calls he made. But this time, he's got a different story that he didn't tell them the first time around. Right. So Bob is a salesman, and so at the time he was. So now he's telling detectives, you know, all these years later, well, those phone calls weren't there because I used an MCI calling card to make those calls.

16:03And the prosecutors were like, no, no, no, that just doesn't add up. Because when you make a call using these calling cards, then you have to punch in this code, this 16-digit code. It just didn't sound like the act of a frantic husband who's calling 911. But then also, is he like sitting there punching in the code to, you know, just try to make these calls? It just didn't add up to the prosecutors. Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. The defense, however, presented somebody at the trial who said that the equipment could have been faulty at the time and it didn't necessarily record all the calls that came through in the area.

16:39Natalie Morales:Okay. But ultimately, detectives do arrest him, right? He's arrested in March of 2023 for Debbie's murder. What about the other suspects, though? Because I got to tell you, when I was watching, yes, initially the phone call was it was troubled me. But later on, I thought, well, what about John? I mean, there are other people. Yeah, yeah. You know, Jeff Freeberg, I think, Detective O 'Connell, they pretty much figured he was not a person of interest. Also back from the lab, the DNA evidence, the mixture from the coat, from from Debbie A. Trapps's coat excluded John Pearson. However, what was interesting about John Pearson, he had apparently moved to Arizona and was living in a trailer when five days before Bob Aitrop's trial, two police officers show up outside the trailer.

17:35They are out there. They're saying, we're here. We want to talk to you. John Pearson looks out the window, sees them, and then kills himself.

17:43Natalie Morales:See, for me, that was, I thought, wait a minute. Why would you do that, right? What are you trying to hide? Right. According to the prosecution, he had a DUI apparently that he was wanted in court for. Take a listen. He had an open criminal case. I believe he thought they were there to arrest him for this misdemeanor warrant and took his life. The prosecution also noted his family said he wanted to testify against Bob Aitrops. We don't really know what was going on in his mind at the time, but investigators and the prosecutors truly believe there is no evidence that points to John Pearson in this case, that all the evidence squarely pointed at Bob Atrops.

18:27Natalie Morales:So when Bob is arrested, though, his daughter, Rihanna, is completely blindsided. Yeah, Rihanna, you know, she's just been so upset at the entire process. She said, you know, she got a call at 5 a.m. that morning telling her that her father, Bob Atrop, had been arrested. Beyond that, she says that at trial, they kept calling her Rihanna instead of Rihanna, which is how her name is pronounced. She was never given a victim's advocate, whereas Debbie's brother and stepfather had a victim's advocate at their side. Here's a little bit more of what she had to say. The prosecution stood there in trial and made me out to be the most important thing in my mom's life.

19:12I'm her baby, her daughter. But the prosecution never treated me as such. So I asked the prosecutors about that and asked the point blank. I mean, how did they feel about how they treated her? And here's what they had to say. And during the trial, Rihanna told us that she was not contacted by a victim's advocate from your office, even though, here it is, it's her mother who was murdered. Why not? We have the indication that she didn't want to have any contact with us, that she was on the defendant's side, and that wasn't interested in being part of our case or having contact with the prosecution.

19:54That was my understanding. She also said that she was not informed ahead of time when the autopsy photos were going to be shown in court on the day during the trial. Meanwhile, you know, Debbie's brother had been informed ahead of time and he left the courtroom because he knew it would be too hard to see. What do you say to that? Yeah, I mean, I can't imagine how that would feel. Again, her not having contact with our office, it's difficult for us to sort of alert everybody in the courtroom, here's what we're about to do. And certainly that was not intentional.

20:30Natalie Morales:Yeah, you know, sometimes it's the nature of the system that, you know, if you're not a defendant and you're not a witness, then it's like you don't have a role. Right. And that's that's how she feels. She feels that she got lost in the process, but also that they excluded her because they knew she was on her father's side and she was going to defend him all the way. So then what sort of evidence did the prosecution have? What sort of evidence do they present that connected Bob to this crime? Perhaps the most compelling part of evidence, according to the prosecution, was the alleged pattern of domestic abuse in their relationship.

21:13Debbie's mother had told police at the time of the murder that Bob Aitrop's was verbally, physically abusive and very controlling, that she immediately suspected that Bob was the killer. And as we mentioned earlier, her friend Tammy Nelson testified that Debbie told Tammy that he had choked her before. I mean, that right there is evidence. Tammy also told the defense team that Debbie told her that she was scared of Bob, especially when they had to hand off Rihanna. That's when those moments, those confrontations could happen. And that's exactly what prosecutors believe is what happened. When Debbie went to the house that night, he had found out about her relationship with John Pearson and that set it up for that night for this confrontation and for him to then, in a fit of rage, strangle Debbie A.

22:09Trops.

22:09Natalie Morales:Mm-hmm. The defense argued, however, that Debbie's stories were unreliable. We hear this version of Bob, but at trial, there were a lot of people that were there supporting him, not just his daughter. Yes, he had a lot of support, including his fourth wife was there. He's, you know, been married since 2011. He did have two other marriages and divorces after Debbie's murder. So, you know, but as Chris Luman, the assistant prosecutor, said that he can be charming and he he knows how to get his way and how to have people, you know, believe him. So ultimately, though, the jury does find him guilty of murdering Debbie H.

22:56Natalie Morales:Rops, the defense was rather emotional and you don't see that very often. Yeah. Yeah. In fact, defense attorney April Yates was very emotional. She said that Bob Aitrops is an innocent person who has been convicted. Of course, Rihanna is now a victim twice over. That's the way she feels. She mentioned that to you. She never got to know her mother, and now she's also lost her father. And she gave a really powerful statement at his sentencing. I'm curious about the reaction when she read that statement. It was a moment that I felt was very, very telling. You know, Rihanna is there. She's pleading with the judge to, you know, spare her father, to be more lenient in his sentencing, telling the judge that she and her three kids, they need their father and grandfather.