Star Witness

20 Aug 2026 · 40 min · 19 chapters

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In short

Episode “Star Witness” follows two true-crime cases where convictions hinge on testimony rather than physical evidence. First: Gloria Killian, convicted in 1981 of masterminding the robbery-murder of 71-year-old Ed Davies in Sacramento. No physical evidence tied her to the crime; investigators found a notebook in her purse with the Rosewood address and items like rope/gloves. Key claim: prosecutors relied on questionable “corroborating” interpretations and a career criminal witness, Gary Massey, whose life sentence was later reduced after he testified against her. Gloria’s conviction was overturned by the Ninth Circuit due to devastating prosecutorial errors; she was released after 16 years. Guests/backgrounds: Gloria Killian; Susan Spencer (investigates); Peter Van Sant (reports); Lana Wyant (Sacramento DA spokesperson); Bill Genego (post-conviction lawyer); Lauren Eskenazi (law clerk); Joyce Ride (widow volunteer); Gloria’s prison-law-library work with inmates like Brenda Aris and Joyce Houston. Second: Clarence Elkins, convicted of murdering his mother-in-law Judith Johnson in 1998 based largely on his six-year-old niece’s identification. Key claim: the niece later recanted after hypnosis; defense sought DNA testing of an alternative suspect, Ryle Rush, and highlighted untested forensic items. Notable example: DNA from two hairs excluded Clarence; ultimately Clarence was exonerated in 2005 when Earl Mann was implicated.

Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.

Chapters

Tap a time to open that second in VO

The Injustice of Conviction

1:07 to 1:54

Explore the case of Clarence Elkins and the impact of a child's testimony.

“A trip here, a dinner there, a couple of outdoor concerts.”

The Injustice of Conviction

2:23 to 3:38

Explore the case of Clarence Elkins and the impact of a child's testimony.

“With no physical evidence, Clarence Elkins was convicted of murdering his mother-in-law.”

Gloria Killian's Fight for Freedom

3:47 to 4:24

Understand Gloria Killian's wrongful conviction and her fight to prove innocence.

“Gloria Killian has waited a long time for this moment.”

Gloria’s Journey Behind Bars

4:30 to 8:32

Learn about Gloria's transformation and advocacy while incarcerated.

“Lana Wyant is with the district attorney's office in Sacramento, California.”

Joyce Ride's Dedication

8:37 to 10:38

Discover how Joyce Ride committed her life to help free Gloria Killian.

“Her passion for the law led to a job in the prison law library.”

A New Beginning

10:39 to 14:01

Witness Gloria's first moments of freedom and the challenges ahead.

“And if your calendar looks anything like mine, it's packed with plans to squeeze in before the season ends.”

Joyce's Fight for Justice

14:01 to 17:44

Learn about Joyce's commitment to helping Gloria Killian prove her innocence.

“In 1992, she listened to Gloria's story and believed it.”

Gloria's Release from Prison

17:44 to 18:55

Discover the emotional moment of Gloria's release after 16 years behind bars.

“Gloria Killian is not actually innocent of the crimes for which she was convicted, and her conviction does not lie on perjured testimony.”

Gloria's Continued Advocacy

18:55 to 19:47

Understand Gloria's mission to help other women affected by injustice post-release.

“And that's exactly what Gloria has been doing ever since her release.”

The Legal Uncertainty Ahead

19:47 to 20:04

Explore the ongoing legal ambiguities regarding Gloria's previous conviction.

“dedicated to helping other women who may be victims of injustice.”
Show all 19 chapters

The Case of Clarence Elkins

20:25 to 22:46

Delve into the investigation of Clarence Elkins, accused based on a child's testimony.

“It is outrageous what they have done to this child.”

Eyewitness Testimony and Its Impact

22:46 to 26:12

Examine the role of the six-year-old's testimony in convicting Clarence Elkins.

“Categorically, you know nothing about this at all.”

Recantation of Testimony

26:12 to 28:01

Learn about the recantation of the child's testimony and its implications for justice.

“And you knew Uncle Clarence pretty well, right?”

Recantation of the Star Witness

28:01 to 29:13

Clarence Elkins' niece recants her testimony, raising doubts about his conviction.

“hopes to reopen this case with a remarkable development that seems too good to be true.”

Recantation of the Star Witness

30:03 to 31:20

Clarence Elkins' niece recants her testimony, raising doubts about his conviction.

“On Reddit, true crime doesn't come from journalists.”

Defense's New Evidence Against Ryle Rush

31:43 to 35:51

Discussion about the allegations against Ryle Rush in the murder case.

“I mean, how can they convict a person with DNA evidence that excludes him completely?”

Eyewitness Testimony Doubts

35:52 to 40:46

Examination of the child's recantation and the implications of hypnosis.

“But the Elkins defense team insists prosecutors cannot ignore a stunning development in this case.”

Future of Clarence Elkins' Case

40:48 to 42:47

The uncertainty of Clarence Elkins' future following the new testimonies.

“Summer is flying by, and if your calendar looks anything like mine, it's packed with plans to squeeze in before the season ends.”

Melinda's Struggle and Court Hearing

43:08 to 48:58

Explore Melinda Elkins' emotional journey as she fights for her husband's freedom.

“Every time I do, I get nervous and angry.”
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Transcript

Automatic transcript. May contain errors.

0:00Summer is flying by, and if your calendar looks anything like mine, it's packed with plans to squeeze in before the season ends. But more plans mean you need more energy, not more complicated steps in your morning routine. Groom's can help make your morning a little simpler. It's a convenient, comprehensive formula in one delicious daily pack of gummy bears. It isn't a multivitamin, a greens gummy, or a prebiotic. It's all those things, and then some. It's a fraction of the price. You get over 20 bioavailable vitamins and minerals, and the ingredients are backed by over 35 ,000 research publications.

0:36Instead of choking down earthy powders or swallowing a handful of oversized pills, you just open one daily pack of Grooms. Plus, they taste great, so you actually remember to take them every single day. Even better, each pack delivers six full grams of prebiotic fiber, which is three times the fiber of standard greens powders, an equivalent to over two cups of broccoli. Save up to 52 % off with code hours at gruns.co. That's code hours at gruns.co. Summer adds up fast. A trip here, a dinner there, a couple of outdoor concerts. With all the extra expenses this season brings, it's easy to wonder if you're getting the most out of your money.

1:16That's why you need to check out Chime. They are completely changing the game with rewarding fee-free banking, meeting no monthly fees, no minimum balance requirements, and absolutely no overdraft fees. My younger self definitely could have benefited from that. It gets better too. You can get 5 % cash back on your Chime card in a category of your choice. I'm talking everyday purchases like gas or groceries, all while building your credit through everyday spending with no credit check required. Plus, your savings grow faster with an interest rate that's nine times the national average. Join the millions who are already banking fee-free with America's number one choice for banking.

1:54Head to chime.com slash 48 hours. That's chime.com slash 48 hours. Sign up now. It only takes a few minutes. Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services and Chime card provided by Chime's bank partners. Qualifying direct deposits required. Terms and limits apply. Go to chime.com slash disclosures for details.

2:22This man is in prison for life because of the testimony of a six-year-old child, his own niece. I need somebody to get my mom for me. I'm all alone. Somebody can help my grandma. With no physical evidence, Clarence Elkins was convicted of murdering his mother-in-law. I thought it was my Uncle Clarence. Case closed? Not by a long shot. Now, five years later, the little girl is changing her story. Do you think it was Uncle Clarence? At first, yeah. Susan Spencer investigates. Is an innocent man behind bars? It is outrageous what they have done to this child. And Gloria Killian was on her way to becoming a lawyer.

3:06She ended up in prison for masterminding a robbery homicide. I just kept thinking, this can't be happening, it can't be happening. The key witness? A career criminal. Would you have believed his story? Quote, I even lied my ass off on the stand for you people. 16 years later, she's out. But for how long? Peter Van Sant reports, prosecutors want to put Gloria right back in jail. I would rather die than go back to prison. 48 Hours Investigates. Star witness. I don't want to get wet. Ow! Oh!

3:47It's so beautiful! Gloria Killian has waited a long time for this moment. It's the most beautiful sight on earth. Sixteen years and four months to be exact, it's hard to believe looking at her, but that's how long she was locked away. We're gonna reach out! Here in a California state prison. I would rather die than go back to prison. What's more, it was for a robbery-murder Gloria says she didn't commit. I'm innocent. I did not plan the robbery. I did not know those people. I was not involved. And I'm not the perpetrator. And I'm really here! She's not out of prison today because she was found to be innocent.

4:29A technicality has gotten her out. You can say that. Lana Wyant is with the district attorney's office in Sacramento, California. She wants Gloria back in jail. We're convinced that she was the mastermind of this murder. Rosewood Drive is a sleepy street in the Rosemont section of Sacramento. The crime Gloria was convicted of occurred in 1981. Two burglars apparently searching for what could have been gold in the house. In this quiet, middle-class neighborhood of Rosemont, California, near Sacramento. The place had been ransacked and things thrown out of the closet in search of items. Detective Stan Reed, now retired, was among the first to arrive on the scene.

5:09Drawers pulled out, things on the floor, closets in disray. Two men had broken into the home of 71-year-old Ed Davies, a coin collector who kept gold and silver in his house. Davies was found dead on his kitchen floor. Shot twice to the head, once at point-blank range. You saw my face, you die. You die. No witnesses. No witnesses. Within days, authorities, acting on a tip... This is a photograph of Gary Massey at the time of his arrest. ...arrested career criminal Gary Massey and charged him with the Davies murder. How did you find out about the crime? I saw it on television, and that's really all that I remember about it.

5:55Divorced and in her mid-30s, Gloria had almost finished law school, but decided to take time off. to enjoy life. I love to go to clubs. I love to party. I love to dance. So I went out a lot. Went out a lot. Was this a wild time for you? You could say that. You could say that. I knew some people I should not have known. And one of those people was a friend of Gary Massey, the man arrested for the Davies murder. Gloria says she never knew Massey. But when the anonymous tip mentioned her name and his together, she was arrested. They cuffed me and took me away. What's going through your mind? Panic, hysteria.

6:39I have no idea what is happening to me and I'm terrified. But detectives didn't buy her claims of innocence after they discovered a notebook in her purse, including this address, 8933 Rosewood. Two doors from the victim's home. After her stating she didn't know where that was. Also in the notebook, a list of items that could have been used in the crime, including rope. Mr. Davies' feet were tied with rope. And gloves. Not one fingerprint was found that indicates to you that they wore gloves. They took some completely unrelated lists and phrases and cobbled them together to constitute what they called corroborating evidence.

7:26It was enough for authorities to charge Gloria with murder. But after spending three and a half months in jail awaiting trial, she was released. Charges are dropped? Yes. For lack of evidence? Yes. A year later, Gloria was rearrested. What had changed? Well, what had changed is that Gary Massey went to trial. He was convicted on all counts, and he was sentenced to life without the possibility of parole. But Massey's sentence was withdrawn and eventually reduced to 25 years to life after he testified against Gloria, saying for the first time she was the real mastermind behind the Davies murder.

8:10Gloria was convicted and sentenced to 32 years to life. You go from somebody who's working with a private investigator, three years law school, bright future, to what? Felon, convicted criminal, condemned. I just kept thinking, this can't be happening. It can't be happening. It can't be happening. But it's what happened to Gloria behind bars that makes her story so remarkable. Her passion for the law led to a job in the prison law library. In time, Gloria became the jailhouse attorney, advising her fellow inmates on everything from parole hearings to appeals. To see her do all the paperwork, all the legal work, and knew that she had so much passion.

8:55I'm walking out of this prison soon, and I would not be doing that without Gloria. It was what gave my life meaning, and it's what kept me going. Gloria was Johnny Cockburn. Gloria coached Joyce Houston on how to best present herself to the parole board. I'll never forget her. Never. Her biggest triumph is Brenda Aris, who was serving a life sentence for killing her husband, who repeatedly beat her. Lost my appeal and had no other resources, so I went to the law library crying, you know, what can I do now? Help me. Gloria sent out more than 6 ,000 letters on behalf of Brenda and even published an article about her case in a law review.

9:39What was it about Brenda that made you want to help her? because it was wrong. It was wrong. He broke my jaw. He cracked my ribs. He totally isolated me in the end. I'm not someone who sits around and advocates, oh, everybody in prison deserves to be out or anything like that. But there's so many injustices. Gloria's efforts paid off. Eris' release six years ago marked the first time a battered woman who killed her husband was granted clemency in California. And that was, it was very powerful. Not because I did it, but because it was right. So Brenda gets out, Joyce gets out. But Gloria's still in prison.

10:26Mm-hmm. There were periods of time when I was sure that I would never get out. That I would never, ever get out. That no one would ever care what happened to me. But that would all change the day she met this 79-year-old widow from Pasadena. I'm profoundly annoyed by injustice. And I just have to do something.

10:55Summer is flying by. And if your calendar looks anything like mine, it's packed with plans to squeeze in before the season ends. But more plans mean you need more energy, not more complicated steps in your morning routine. Groom's can help make your morning a little simpler. It's a convenient, comprehensive formula in one delicious daily pack of gummy bears. It isn't a multivitamin, a greens gummy, or a prebiotic. It's all those things and then some. It's a fraction of the price. You get over 20 bioavailable vitamins and minerals, and the ingredients are backed by over 35 ,000 research publications.

11:32Instead of choking down earthy powders or swallowing a handful of oversized pills, you just open one daily pack of Grooms. Plus, they taste great, so you actually remember to take them every single day. Even better, each pack delivers six full grams of prebiotic fiber, which is three times the fiber of standard greens powders, an equivalent to over two cups of broccoli. Save up to 52 % off with code hours at Grooms.co. That's code hours at G-R-U-N-S dot C-O. Summer adds up fast. A trip here, a dinner there, a couple of outdoor concerts. With all the extra expenses this season brings, it's easy to wonder if you're getting the most out of your money.

12:11That's why you need to check out Chime. They are completely changing the game with rewarding fee-free banking, meaning no monthly fees, no minimum balance requirements, and absolutely no overdraft fees. My younger self definitely could have benefited from that. It gets better, too. You can get 5 % cash back on your Chime card in a category of your choice. I'm talking everyday purchases like gas or groceries, all while building your credit through everyday spending with no credit check required. Plus, your savings grow faster with an interest rate that's nine times the national average. Join the millions who are already banking fee-free with America's number one choice for banking.

12:50Head to Chime.com slash 48 hours. That's Chime.com slash 48 hours. Sign up now. It only takes a few minutes. Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services and Chime card provided by Chime's bank partners. Qualifying direct deposits required. Terms and limits apply. Go to Chime.com slash disclosures for details. Okay, let's go. I'm going straight for the cookie aisle. After spending 16 years in prison... I can't stand all the choice. A trip to the supermarket is a real adventure. Oh, my. Oh, well, I can't resist. For Gloria Killian. Do you know how many years it's been since I've had raspberries?

13:34Sixteen years and four months. Probably longer than that. She would still be in prison if not for this woman, a widow from Pasadena named Joyce Ride. My daughters describe me as the elderly widow Ride. You'll probably remember one of Ride's daughters. Lift off and the shuttle has cleared the tower. America's first woman astronaut, Sally Rod. Roger your roll, township. It seems determination runs in the family. Joyce has been a volunteer visitor at women's prisons for years. I just go in as a friend and listen. In 1992, she listened to Gloria's story and believed it. Clearly she was innocent of the crime.

14:14So at that point I said, is it all right with you if I hire an investigator? During the next 10 years, Ride spent nearly$100 ,000 of her own money to help Gloria. Why do you do it? I am profoundly annoyed by injustice, and I just have to do something. Joyce hired Bill Genego, a lawyer who specializes in post-conviction appeals. He wasn't optimistic about Gloria's chances. Even if you think the person might have gotten an unfair trial, or even if you have a sense that the person is innocent, that's just not good enough in and of itself. Janago's law clerk at the time, Lauren Eskenazi, was fresh out of law school and ready to take on the world.

14:57I was idealistic, and I was thinking, this is why I went to law school, and this is what it's all about, and I am just as eager as can be to just look at every single piece of paper. Gloria Killian's new legal team had always believed the prosecution cut a secret deal with Gary Massey. Remember, Massey's life sentence was reduced after he testified against Gloria. But in court, under oath, Massey denied any deal existed. He got on the stand. He said, I don't have an agreement. I don't have any promises. But Genego was given a letter that suggested otherwise. It was written by Massey to the prosecutor's office just months after Gloria's conviction.

15:38In it, Massey refers to, quote, a verbal agreement about a lighter sentence and admits lying on the witness stand during Gloria's trial. Quote, I did my part all the way to the end. I even lied my ass off on the stand for you people. When you read those words, I lied for you. I mean, this was powerful stuff. Right. But the problem was, who's going to believe him? Nobody's going to believe Massey. He's not a believable guy. Janago knew he needed something else, something even bigger to overturn Gloria's conviction. After months and months of digging through court documents, Lauren Eskenazi found it.

16:20Bill jumps out of his seat. He's very, very excited. He's just like, we found the smoking gun. It was another letter, this one written by the prosecutor in Gloria's case, addressed to the judge who was going to sentence Massey, saying that Massey's cooperation, quote, deserves consideration by the court. This case to me is about the lengths that at least this prosecutor was willing to go to to get a conviction absent really any evidence, any credible evidence. There was no verbal agreement with Gary Massey. Lana Wyant is spokesperson for the Sacramento District Attorney's Office. Why did he think there was one?

16:57The only promise that was ever made to Gary Massey was made to him by the Sheriff's Department, and that was to keep him safe. But he didn't write the Sheriff's Department. He wrote the DA's office about our verbal agreement. There was no such agreement. But what about the recommendation from the prosecutor to the judge regarding Massey's sentence noted in that second letter? Wyant says that letter had been sealed by the court, and Massey never even saw it. Gary Massey did not know about the letter, so his testimony was not affected in any way by this letter. But, Janago says, at the very least, the prosecutor should have handed over the letters to Killian's defense attorney.

17:37You know, in retrospect, the letter should have been disclosed, but it didn't matter. Gloria Killian is not actually innocent of the crimes for which she was convicted, and her conviction does not lie on perjured testimony. But last year, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals denounced the prosecution's conduct, finding that all the errors made were devastating to one's confidence in the reliability of this verdict. The court set aside her conviction, and after 16 long years in prison, Gloria Killian was released. What was going through your heart at that moment? I mean, when you realized, I'll be damned, I'm getting out of here.

18:18People that I didn't know that were jumping up and down and clapping, and it's like the whole unit is cheering for me. And it was a truly amazing moment. and I'm looking at people that I know are never supposed to get out of prison. And I still, for that tremendous outpouring of love and happiness and a hope that I can do something, that I can figure out a way to help everybody else. Pacific, this way. And that's exactly what Gloria has been doing ever since her release. Most women in prison, that's the law in the state of California. I would phrase it as a woman's issue. Working full time, raising money.

19:08All of you have contributed, and I'm so, so grateful. And people's consciousness about women behind bars. She's innocent. I don't know how I would face replacing 20 years of my life if it's simply been wiped out. Have another date. Oh, my God. I came to understand the terrible things that happened to many, many women, and I knew I had to do something about it. I have no intention of turning my back on the people that I left behind. Gloria Killian has proved true to her word. She recently started her own non-profit organization called Action Committee for Women in Prison, dedicated to helping other women who may be victims of injustice.

19:51Meanwhile, the Sacramento District Attorney's Office still reserves the right to retry Killian for the robbery and the homicide, but so far has taken no new steps to do so. Now, coming up... I'm all alone. Somebody killed my grandma. The testimony of a six-year-old sends her uncle to prison for murder. You knew Uncle Clarence pretty well, right? Mm-hmm. But now, she's changing her story. It's one of the worst investigations I've ever seen. Will he be set free? It is outrageous what they have done to this child.

20:41This is a tedious job. Right now we are preparing the sleeves to go in the candles for the candlelight vigil. Four years ago, my mother was murdered on this day. She was a funny lady. She had a great sense of humor. For Melinda Elkins, the years go by, but the pain and the questions linger. You know, I talked to my mother the day before, and I got to tell her I loved her. She cannot stop asking who could have been so cold-blooded as to want her mother dead. I miss her. And I know she's not at rest. I thank you for all the blessings that you've given us. And it was a violent death. 58-year-old Judith Johnson and her 6-year-old granddaughter were at her modest home outside Akron, Ohio that June night in 1998.

21:39Now, what's your emergency? Yes, I need an ambulance and the police. My mother-in-law's been stabbed. stabbed, beaten, strangled, and sexually assaulted. I love you, Mom. Also assaulted was the six-year-old, Melinda's niece, but the little girl lived. Oh, my God. My little girl spent the night here. And she lived to tell a shocking story, that the man who had killed her grandmother was none other than her uncle, Clarence Elkins, Melinda's husband. Within a few hours, police had arrested him and charged him with the murder. And today, 40-year-old Clarence Elkins sits in prison for life, convicted largely on the word of his own niece, for there never was one shred of physical evidence linking him to this bloody crime.

22:36I'm not a violent person whatsoever, and I did not do this crime. I'm totally and completely innocent. You didn't kill your mother-in-law? No, I did not. Categorically, you know nothing about this at all. You were home sleeping. No knowledge. No knowledge. But the jury disagreed. Brandon! I'm going to set the table. Today, Clarence, a steel press operator with no record of violence, sits in prison. And that something his two sons, Clarence Jr., now 20, and Brandon, now 17, still have a hard time accepting. Thank you for this food. Thank you for this day. You know, not to have a dad in your teen years, you lose your childhood.

23:23That's what happened to me and Clarence. We lost our childhood. How are your sons doing through all this?

23:34I can only imagine.

23:39I'm sure they're struggling. And I miss special time in their lives that I never get back. Okay, let's carry this stuff out. For more than four years, Melinda Elkins has campaigned to convince the world of her husband's innocence. With her in-law's financial help, over$100 ,000 so far, Melinda hired Martin Yant, a private investigator who has helped overturn eight convictions. It was really abysmal. It's one of the worst investigations I've ever seen. An immense amount of evidence was overlooked inside as well as outside. And in this very bloody crime scene, he says, some of that evidence might have provided the killer's fingerprints or DNA.

24:28if only police had bothered to test it. There are defensive blows on her arms. Fingernails are ripped off, indicating that she possibly scratched the person. What little testing was done didn't implicate Elkins. In fact, to the contrary. Lab reports obtained by 48 Hours show that two hairs found on Judith Johnson's buttocks definitely did not belong to Clarence Elkins. The little bit of evidence they did bring forth to the trial, it excluded me. The state said it excluded him and his family. It doesn't add up. It doesn't add up. Clarence said he had an alibi for that night, that he'd gone to several bars before going home.

25:15But at the trial, Melinda's six-year-old niece, whom we've agreed not to identify, was a powerful eyewitness. The jury heard the desperate message she left on a neighbor's answering machine. I need somebody to get my mom. For me, I'm all alone. Somebody can help my grandma. By the time the child told her mother, Melinda's sister April, what had happened, the attacker was no longer somebody. It was Uncle Clarence. She knew who he was. She knows the sound of his voice. I mean, what was I supposed to do? I had to believe my daughter. I ran by my grandmother's couch, and I peeked in the kitchen. What could you see when you peeked in the kitchen?

26:00I saw a man standing over my grandmother yelling at her. You were scared? Yes. Did you think you knew who it was? Yes. And what did you think? I thought it was my Uncle Clarence. And you knew Uncle Clarence pretty well, right? Mm-hmm. Did you have any reason to think that your grandmother and Uncle Clarence didn't like each other? No, but the people were fighting over their money. In court, the sweet, curly-haired little girl was absolutely sure and absolutely convincing. You know, the only thing I could think of was mistaken identity or persuaded by someone. Or coached, I don't know. I'll rock your horn for Justin!

26:46You know, it was not an easy decision. It was a very emotional decision. I mean, most of the jury was crying. Roger Owen and Arnice Rice were on the jury that convicted Elkins. Did that trouble the people on the jury, that there was not a shred of forensic evidence linking this guy to this crime? It was disgust, but it all came back to the little girl. Towards the end of her testimony, when she said, why would Uncle Clarence hurt me in the bedroom? I mean, that, to me, was, you know, damaging. That really got to you. Yes, because from her testimony, it was he was close enough to her. Why would she be mistaken if it wasn't him?

Read the full transcript

27:27She knows him. And prosecutor Mike Carroll remains sure to this day that the right man is behind bars. Trust me, based on the evidence and based on everything I know, he did it. There was hatred between Judy Johnson and Clarence Elkins. I mean, you know, this guy is not the jackal. How could he possibly have committed this crime and left absolutely no trace? I won't say he left no trace because we did have the witness. But once he leaves the house, if he does have bloody clothing or shoes or whatever, all he has to do is dispose of them. But Clarence Elkins' new attorney, Elizabeth Kelly, hopes to reopen this case with a remarkable development that seems too good to be true.

28:09Why did you say it was Uncle Clarence? Because it looked like him. It looked like him. The prosecution's star witness, Clarence Elkins' niece, now 10 years old, has recanted her original testimony, saying she never was sure to begin with that it was her Uncle Clarence who attacked her. But do you think it was Uncle Clarence? At first, yeah. At first, yeah. But do you think so today? No. Okay. So if Uncle Clarence didn't do it, who did? The Elkins team says they think they know.

29:14in one delicious daily pack of gummy bears. It isn't a multivitamin, a greens gummy, or a prebiotic. It's all those things, and then some. It's a fraction of the price. You get over 20 bioavailable vitamins and minerals, and the ingredients are backed by over 35 ,000 research publications. Instead of choking down earthy powders or swallowing a handful of oversized pills, you just open one daily pack of Grooms. Plus, they taste great, so you actually remember to take them every single day. Even better, each pack delivers six full grams of prebiotic fiber, which is three times the fiber of standard greens powders, an equivalent to over two cups of broccoli.

29:53Save up to 52 % off with code hours at gruns.co. That's code hours at gruns.co. On Reddit, true crime doesn't come from journalists. It comes from the victims, the witnesses, and sometimes the suspects themselves. Every Tuesday on Crimes of Reddit, we read these posts out loud. I'm Sabrina DeAnaroga. And I'm Alexis Linkletter. One of us brings the story, the other goes in blind, reacting in real time, just like you. New episodes drop every Tuesday. Listen to and follow Crimes of Reddit, available now wherever you get your podcasts. Summer adds up fast. A trip here, a dinner there, a couple of outdoor concerts.

30:35with all the extra expenses this season brings, it's easy to wonder if you're getting the most out of your money. That's why you need to check out Chime. They are completely changing the game with rewarding fee-free banking, meaning no monthly fees, no minimum balance requirements, and absolutely no overdraft fees. My younger self definitely could have benefited from that. It gets better too. You can get 5 % cash back on your Chime card in a category of your choice. I'm talking everyday purchases like gas or groceries, all while building your credit through everyday spending with no credit check required.

31:10Plus, your savings grow faster with an interest rate that's nine times the national average. Join the millions who are already banking fee-free with America's number one choice for banking. Head to chime.com slash 48 hours. That's chime.com slash 48 hours. Sign up now. It only takes a few minutes. Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services and Chime card provided by Chime's bank partners. Qualifying direct deposits required. Terms and limits apply. Go to Chime.com slash disclosures for details.

31:43I'm angry. I'm very angry. And sad at the same time. I mean, how can they convict a person with DNA evidence that excludes him completely? It doesn't add up. My mother is still laying six feet in the ground and someone other than my husband has murdered her. All for justice! Melinda Elkins has no doubt in her mind that her husband Clarence is innocent of the murder of her mother, Judith Johnson. But a jury found him guilty and Melinda needs new evidence to get a new trial. This is the suspect that you have in mind? That's right. Martin Yant, the private eye Melinda hired, says his own investigation has convinced him not only that Clarence Elkins did not commit this gruesome murder, but that this man did.

32:3929-year-old Ryle Rush, whom Yant describes as a Clarence Elkins look-alike. Now this is a picture of Clarence. Correct. That was taken at his arraignment the day after his arrest. You think these two guys look alike? I do. Both have facial hair. Their haircuts are somewhat similar. When you're talking about a six-year-old girl, seeing somebody in a darkened house, I can see how that mistake could be made. All right, Ryle, let's go! Ryle and Johnson did know each other. They're seen here dancing at a friend's wedding. But Yant claims Rush was interested in more than friendship, that he had a crush on the much older woman, and that Johnson's rejection could be a motive for the murder.

33:27Yant also says Rush, who lived in Johnson's neighborhood, was known to carry a club like this one for protection. It's a pool cue that was sawed off at both ends. And that the six-year-old girl who survived the attack said the man was carrying just such a club. Clarence Elkins' attorney, Elizabeth Kelly, claims the most damning piece of circumstantial evidence... That's outside of the funeral home. Okay. ...is ironically a police surveillance video shot the day of Judith Johnson's funeral. Whoa. Exactly. That man does not want to be seen. Kelly says it shows Rush had deep scratches on his face and hand.

34:08Where's the scratch? On the cheek? On the cheek. And you say his finger has a bandage on it? She wants police to collect a sample of Ryle Rush's DNA to see if it matches DNA from the two hairs found on Judith Johnson's buttocks, ones that did not match Clarence Elkins. You characterize this as though this necessarily means that he's a guilty man. We filed a petition naming Mr. Rush based on overwhelming evidence that shows that he is the murderer. It is not something we did lightly. I'm a nice guy. I'm a nice guy. I go to work and back home. Not looking for trouble. Right. Rush, a factory worker, has served jail time for disorderly conduct.

34:58But he insists that in this case, he too is an innocent man. Did you kill Judy Johnson? No. You didn't have any kind of crush on Judy Johnson? No. Did you ever ask her out? Joke around, yeah. But it was a joke. Rush denies he ever carried a club, and as for those scratches, he claims they were from rough sex with a woman he met at a bar. Prosecutor Mike Carroll. In investigating this, to your knowledge, did the name Ryle Rush ever come up? Never. You sort of laughed at that. Well, I've been going through this now for a fair amount of time, and I think it's very unfair to Mr. Rush that this has been put upon him, after the fact, but no, it did not.

35:44I mean, they're just grasping at straws now. They are desperate people trying to get this guy out of prison, even though he committed this crime. But the Elkins defense team insists prosecutors cannot ignore a stunning development in this case. The prosecution's own star eyewitness, the little girl, who's now 10, has seen a photo of Ryle Rush, and she now says that he looks like the man who attacked her. And she claims that she was never as sure as she may have seemed four years ago when she sat in this very courtroom and pointed a finger at her Uncle Clarence. I remember the face of the guy that was there, and it looked like Ryle.

36:26Are you assured this time that it's not Uncle Clarence? Yeah. Really? Yeah. The defense videotaped the little girl's new deposition. I thought I knew the guy, but then I was like, I was scared because he was a guy and I was so little. Okay. Do you think today that Uncle Clarence was the same man you saw in the kitchen that night with your grandma? No. You know, why would these things just suddenly occur to her? I couldn't tell you that. I couldn't answer that. The other side would intend that she's now being coached. I don't believe that whatsoever. I believe she wants to tell the truth. It's probably been on her mind from the beginning.

37:25It is outrageous what they have done to this child. But prosecutor Mike Carroll is suspicious of the child's sudden change of heart. You're absolutely sure that she was coached? Oh, absolutely. The driving force behind all this is Melinda Elkins, who just likes to be the center of attention. Somehow the child changes her story. We have been telling her to tell the truth, not what we want to hear. But isn't it perfectly obvious to her what you want to hear? Yes, I think it is, the truth. When did you realize that you weren't sure anymore? I started remembering things when I went over to my aunt Wendy's house.

38:08I saw a picture of my uncle Clarence. He has blue eyes. I remembered brown eyes. What's also troubling to the prosecution is that these new details emerged only after the defense had the little girl hypnotized. Legally, hypnotism is looked upon with great disfavor. He dangles a watch in front of her and says, you're getting sleepy, and then she changes her story. To me, it's a Las Vegas act. I don't blame people for being suspicious about the recantation. Dr. Elizabeth Loftus at UC Irvine is an expert on eyewitness testimony. When you hypnotize someone, by definition, they are in a heightened state of suggestion and suggestibility.

38:53And Dr. Loftus points to two very troubling statements in the child's recantation. Why are you talking to me today about the night that your grandma died?

39:07because we got more information. Well, that is at least evidence that she is getting fed other information, not deliberately necessarily, but that she's being exposed to it. Do you think he was the same man who punched you in the cheek? No. And why do you think that? because he would never do that to me and my grandma and they loved each other. They loved each other. Is this something that she thought of on her own? Is this something she overheard other family members saying? I mean, it's really hard to know. But it's also hard to know, according to Loftus, if the child was coached the first time around, before she took the witness stand.

39:57alone. Somebody killed my grandma. Something happened between her saying somebody killed my grandma and Uncle Clarence. And Loftus says this very traumatized child could just have been trying to please the adults around her by identifying a suspect. I mean, if I were a judge in this case, I'd be wanting some more physical evidence because the little girl is not giving us a good answer to this problem. What do you want to happen next? I want my uncle Clarence to get out of jail. Yeah. You think he might get out of jail now? Yeah. But it will be up to a judge to decide if this child's testimony is more reliable now than it was four years ago, and whether the lack of forensic evidence itself is enough to set Clarence Elkins free.

40:48That's next.

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43:10I hate coming down here. Every time I do, I get nervous and angry. The thought of him in there, it's like, you know, this isn't real. It's a nightmare. Melinda Elkins dreads this road trip every time she takes it. Four tedious hours to the Ohio prison where her husband, Clarence, sits. Sentenced to life for the murder of Melinda's own mother. I feel victimized by the system. But she hangs on to the hope that she may not have to make this trip much longer. It's just so hard leaving him there. The same judge who presided over Clarence's trial for the murder of Melinda's mother now has agreed to hold a hearing on the defense claims that new evidence warrants giving Clarence a new trial, if not setting him free altogether.

44:03I lost four years of my life and my family's. being together because I'm falsely accused and wrongly convicted. You think this time around a judge will be convinced of that? I'm hoping he will. I'm trusting he will. When the day arrives, emotions understandably are at the breaking point. Though the two Elkins sons steal themselves, seeing their father in shackles is too much. I've seen him like that. It's really yesterday. The courtroom is packed. Defense attorney Elizabeth Kelly begins by presenting her case against Ryle Rush. We have discovered a man who looks like Clarence Elkins, sounds like Clarence Elkins, and who in all probability murdered Judith Johnson.

44:56We have pending before this court a motion to obtain a hair sample from this alternative suspect. But Judge John Adams insists he has no legal authority to order a DNA sample from Rush. What about his constitutional rights? He hasn't been charged with any offense at this point in time. All I have is the information gathered by your private investigator. That's sufficient for me to order sampling to be done of this individual? Kelly then cites a laundry list of potential evidence from the crime scene that never even was tested by police. Failure to test items in the kitchen. failure to test a bloody fingerprint.

45:34They failed to test the fingernail scrapings from Mrs. Johnson. But Assistant District Attorney Richard Kaysay insists jury members were well aware of the lack of physical evidence tying Elkins to the crime. And it didn't seem to bother them. The jury heard it. The jury considered it. The jury found Mr. Elkins guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. What clinched it for the jury was the testimony of the child eyewitness. That child, Kelly argues, now has recanted, saying she was wrong. Do you think it was Uncle Clarence? At first, yeah. At first, yeah. But do you think so today? No. Judge Adams has real doubts about this recantation.

46:20It would be reprehensible if a child who has been the victim of a brutal sexual assault witnessed the killing of her grandmother was being manipulated to free an individual who was guilty. With those ominous words, the hearing ends. Truth, justice. And all the family can do now is wait for the judge's ruling.

46:48Summer's grass is covered with snow before the decision comes down, four agonizing months later. We're scared, but we're hopeful. I'm hoping for fairness today. I'm hoping that he at least will allow us to have another chance. Hello? A local newspaper reporter calls from the courthouse with word of a ruling. Hi, Karen. The news is devastating. The judge has denied the defense's motion for a new trial. I have a bed. Oh, my God! Oh, he's so loud. How am I going to tell Clarence? Okay, listen. How am I going to tell him? Try to prepare yourself for this. There's no preparation. Hello? Melinda breaks the news to her husband, who calls from prison.

47:49He denied the motion. I don't... Clarence, I don't even know what to say.

48:00Judge Adams has rejected the child's recantation, calling it unreliable. And having presided over the original trial, he says the jury knew all about the absence of physical evidence, and it still found Clarence guilty. I think he's afraid if we get another chance in court, we're going to prove ourselves right. As for Ryle Rush, the judge says it's up to prosecutors to decide if they want to investigate him. Meanwhile, Melinda Elkins vows to take her battle next to federal court, insisting this fight is far from over. Maybe years down the road we'll still be fighting, but I can't give up and I won't.

48:52In 2005, Clarence Elkins was exonerated and released from prison. DNA evidence implicated Judith Johnson's neighbor Earl Mann as her killer. In 2008, he pleaded guilty to murder and rape and was sentenced to 55 years to life in prison.

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From the publisher

Are they guilty of terrible crimes or are they victims themselves?  "48 Hours" examines two separate reports: Gloria Killian, who was arrested for a robbery-homicide she claimed she did not commit, and Clarence Elkins, who was incarcerated for the murder of his mother-in-law but maintained his innocence. "48 Hours" correspondents Peter Van Sant and Susan Spencer report.

This classic "48 Hours" episode last aired on 9/13/2003. Watch all-new episodes of “48 Hours” on Saturdays and stream on demand on Paramount+.

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