In short
A 6-hour NYPD hostage negotiation in residential Queens after 23-year-old Jarrett Jordan shot three people and barricaded himself in a house with hostages, including his four-month-old daughter Cheyenne. Negotiators Lieutenant Jack Cambria and Detective Sergeant Wally Zines use rapport-building, patience, and controlled communication to secure the baby’s release, then confirm the suspect’s suicide and that no other hostages were present.
Guest backgrounds
The episode features NYPD hostage negotiation leadership and experience: Lieutenant Jack Cambria (ESU veteran; leads the hostage negotiation team; father of two; trained negotiators for emotionally disturbed subjects) and Detective Sergeant Wally Zines (Manhattan territory detective; extroverted “Prince of the City”; family man with three children; senior negotiator).
Key claims
Credibility and avoiding lies are crucial; time and patience help; sometimes non-police (a best friend) can be used; children cases are the most emotionally difficult; a “throw phone” prevents interruptions.
Notable examples
Wally’s phone rapport with Jarrett; Diane being withheld to avoid fatal escalation; using a throw phone to bypass a dying line; Jarrett releasing Cheyenne via a man named James Alexander, then later being found dead after a canine-led entry.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOEmergency Call to Action
0:10 to 0:44
Detective Zines responds to a call about a shooting and hostage situation.
“We're looking for a fellow that's wanted for connection with the rape.”
The Hostage Crisis Begins
0:44 to 1:46
Introduction to the shooter and the gravity of the situation involving hostages.
“I receive a call from our citywide duty captain, and he said, why don't you start to roll?”
Negotiation Team Activation
1:46 to 2:26
The hostage negotiation team sets up to make contact with the shooter.
“One of them is an infant, the shooter's four-month-old daughter.”
The First Contact
2:26 to 3:10
Wally Zines makes initial phone contact with the shooter, Jarrett.
“Now Lieutenant Cambria decides who will do the talking.”
Jarrett's Backstory Unfolds
3:10 to 3:52
Details about Jarrett's past and his volatile relationship with the baby's mother.
“Then we start and you know that there's some contact being made.”
The Pressure of Negotiation
3:52 to 4:26
Wally Zines navigates high-pressure negotiation with Jared, revealing personal risks.
“cause right now y 'all making me feel at you.”
Understanding the Hostage Taker
4:26 to 5:54
Exploring the personalities and motivations of the negotiators and the shooter.
“Show Nightwatch responding to that fight.”
Building Trust with Jared
5:54 to 6:41
Wally Zines works to gain Jared's trust by agreeing to his demands.
“Y 'all trying to run in here or what, man?”
A Tactical Shift
6:41 to 7:49
The negotiation team faces challenges and considers unconventional tactics.
“48 and a father of two, he's the only full-time member of the hostage team.”
Emotional Stakes Rise
7:49 to 8:50
As time ticks away, Wally connects emotionally with Jarrett over their children.
“What we seek to do is empower these individuals to resolve it themselves and save face and come out with dignity and respect.”
Show all 23 chapters
The Tense Standoff
8:50 to 10:10
The situation escalates as the hostage team struggles to maintain calm.
“Now the two friends, Jack Cambria and Wally Zines, are being pushed to their limits as they struggle to get everyone out of this house alive.”
Critical Decisions
10:10 to 12:20
The team contemplates risky decisions to save lives amidst escalating threats.
“The armed suspect is just a half a block away.”
Connecting on a Personal Level
12:20 to 14:01
Wally shares personal stories to build rapport with Jarrett during the crisis.
“But their conversation does yield some alarming information.”
The Importance of Bonding with a Child
14:01 to 15:10
Learn about the profound bond between parents and their children and its impact on life.
“I want to tell you how important a child is to a parent.”
Negotiation Dynamics in a Hostage Situation
15:10 to 17:42
Explore the complexities of hostage negotiation and the strategies used by negotiators.
“If you're not going to think about yourself, think about all the people that love you.”
The Psychological Tactics in Negotiation
17:42 to 22:22
Discover the psychological tactics employed by negotiators to build trust and keep communication open.
“The team wants to hand Jarrett a special phone directly wired to the truck.”
Planning for the Hostage's Release
22:22 to 25:04
Learn how negotiators plan for a hostage release and the potential risks involved.
“Yeah, they took that after the winter, but you know...”
The Critical Moment of Negotiation
25:04 to 28:04
Witness the tension-filled moments leading to the potential release of hostages and the decisions made.
“You mentioned that Jared might take out the other people.”
The Tension Builds During the Standoff
28:04 to 29:18
The team assesses the situation as a baby is brought out, revealing uncertainty about the hostage-taker's intentions.
“Once the baby comes out, we'll assess it real quickly.”
Revealing Information from James Alexander
29:18 to 31:06
James Alexander provides crucial information about the hostage situation, including the shocking revelation of a self-inflicted gunshot.
“The hostage taker says he's going to send the baby out with a woman.”
The Aftermath of the Standoff
31:06 to 34:11
The police discover the tragic outcome of the standoff and the emotional impact on the negotiators involved.
“I think when I bring the baby out, the bullet went off.”
Reflections on the Day’s Events
34:11 to 36:28
Negotiators reflect on their emotional burdens and the complexities of their roles after a difficult situation.
“You're speaking to the guy and you're up to resolve it.”
Looking Forward: The Future of Negotiation
36:28 to 38:13
As new challenges arise, negotiators train the next generation while contemplating their future roles.
“But the two veterans don't have time to dwell on the incident.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:05As most New Yorkers are just beginning their day. Oh, what a way to end the day. We're looking for a fellow that's wanted for connection with the rape. NYPD Detective Sergeant Wally Zines. I'm leaving a uniform cop at the door to secure it for a search warrant. Is usually ending his night shift. It's almost 7.30, half hour to the end. And hopefully, we'll be quiet. Get some sleep.
0:31Harold Dow:But at 7.51 on October 19th, Police operator, we have some emergency. Detective Zines is about to start working overtime. There's a shotgun. Heavy up. He's coming to get the girl. I receive a call from our citywide duty captain, and he said, why don't you start to roll?
0:52Operator, there's a lady outside my door. She's in trouble. The lady's shot. She's bleeding.
0:58Harold Dow:While he rushes to the scene in residential Queens, so does our 48 Hours crew, which has been granted unprecedented access by the NYPD. Guys, please with me, boss. An extraordinary life and death drama is about to unfold before your eyes. Where's the guy with the gun? He went back in the house. He hasn't come out yet. There was a male who shot three people and barricaded himself in the house with hostages. I don't have any visual. This is a job for the NYPD's hostage negotiation team. And Wally is one of a hundred detectives specially trained as negotiators. Possible man with a shotgun inside the house.
1:39Harold Dow:Police believe the suspect is holding four hostages. And worst of all... There's a little baby in there. The baby's not even a year old. One of them is an infant, the shooter's four-month-old daughter. Does anybody have a visual on anybody? Within minutes, police tactical units have the house surrounded. The one down the window, far right window. Keep everybody down. But they won't make a move until they hear from this man. Inspector Yee on the air. Lieutenant Jack Cambria, the head of the hostage negotiation team. What's your greatest fear right now? Well, we're concerned that he's going to hurt some of the hostages or even himself.
2:19Harold Dow:Jack thinks his team can prevent that. The first order of business? Make phone contact. We started to establish a temporary headquarters for the hostage team. Inside that van we have a crisis phone. And we set that whole thing in motion. Now Lieutenant Cambria decides who will do the talking. He turns to his old friend, Wally Zines. Wally is one of my most senior negotiators, my most experienced negotiator. So Wally was the man. Are we ready? We didn't have any other information except the person's first name, Jared. Dial tone? Dial tone. Here we go. Taper's rolling.
3:06Ring it. I'm good. Jared, it's Wally. We got on a first name basis. He calls me Wally and I call him Jared. Then we start and you know that there's some contact being made.
3:17Harold Dow:Police learn the shooter is 23-year-old Jarrett Jordan. He just got out two weeks ago to Marcos Island. He was there for breaking into Diane's house. Jarrett has a long history of abusing his ex-girlfriend Diane, mother of their baby girl Cheyenne. This morning, he came to the house with a shotgun to confront her and exploded. He found the house full of people, the infant, but not Diane. the mother of the baby. This enraged him to the point that he shot three people. Don't try nothing funny, man, cause right now y 'all making me feel at you. Cause I got my daughter in my hands, man. Lieutenant Cambria and Sergeant Zines.
4:00If you say the wrong thing, it can end right there. Share a passion for this high pressure job. I gotta open this door. You don't have to open the door.
4:08Harold Dow:Though personally, they are as different as day and night. What drives Wally Zines? The excitement. Nightwatch Sergeant Central. What, Sergeant? Who's the 34th Central? Wally Zines is an extrovert. Look at this. The prettiest ladies in Manhattan. Nothing is like New York. It's so unpredictable. It's like an adrenaline rush. Show Nightwatch responding to that fight. We don't know anything about what happened, how it started. I see more of you than I see of my wife. By day, he's a 56-year-old family man with three children. Is this a barricade? Sergeant, I'm here. But after midnight... They call me Prince of the City because of the, you know, it's such a big territory.
4:58Harold Dow:He commands the detective unit, which covers all of Manhattan. Hello, boys. All right, what did we have? Slash in the hand with a bottle. It's a ringside seat to the greatest show on earth, and it doesn't cost you a dime. This is the front row seat. Hey, welcome to the orchestra.
5:24What's the most difficult part of this job? Seeing cases with young children. Children?
5:33It's a very tough thing, especially when you have your own. You immediately bring your children into it. You replace them with yours.
5:48Harold Dow:For nearly an hour since they began talking, Wally has been struggling to calm down the agitated and desperate Jared Jordan. What's going on, man? Y 'all trying to run in here or what, man? If you're going to learn to trust me... To start winning his trust, Wally agrees to Jarrett's first demand. Just get them people from the side of the house. They're making me nervous. He tells the tactical unit to pull back. We've done everything you've asked for. Everything. All right, just stay away from the house. I have my people away. Now, Wally wants something in return. How about give me one person? I can't do that like that.
6:26Oh, man. You gotta give me one. Oftentimes going into negotiations looking for a quick resolve is usually a mistake. We just stopped negotiations for a little while.
6:37Harold Dow:Lieutenant Jack Cambria is by nature a patient man. And in this job, that's a big plus. Time is on our side. And we'll talk as long as it takes. 48 and a father of two, he's the only full-time member of the hostage team. Hostage team, Lieutenant Cambria, may I help you? Jack's father was a longshoreman. He spent about 40 years down at the waterfront. He just wanted me to have, as he saw it, better. So Jack pursued his dream, joining the NYPD. I remember always respecting police officers as a youngster, and I thought I'd like to be like those guys, you know. Jack spent 16 years on the force with the emergency services unit, the ESU.
7:24Put your hair on the ground! Put your hair on the ground!
7:28Harold Dow:They provide the heavy weaponry while the negotiators talk. Sergeant Cambrian here. You and Jack, they're not going to talk to him for a while. And over those 16 years, I've developed a tremendous rapport with all of the personnel within that unit. They knew who I am. I know who they are. Four years ago, Jack brought his quiet, methodical style to the leadership of the hostage team. He often does the negotiating himself. What we seek to do is empower these individuals to resolve it themselves and save face and come out with dignity and respect. Jack's team handles everything from bridge jumpers to botch bank robberies to hijackings.
8:10Harold Dow:But as Jack trains his negotiators, he focuses on the situation they face most frequently. Yeah, I'm here, I'm here. Dealing with the emotionally disturbed. This is the most important part of the training. Clear the door, clear the door. They are better able to deal and understand the individuals they may be speaking with from behind the door. Do you have a baby in there with you now? I have the heavenly baby. I think perhaps there's nothing more emotional than cases with children. I know about you, I know about the tricks. I don't want to talk to you. You've got to get into his heart, into his soul, and try to connect with that.
8:47Right now we're kind of at an impasse.
8:49Harold Dow:This morning in Queens, another impasse. Just hold on right now, man. You're moving too fast. But this time, the baby is real.
9:01Harold Dow:I got a baby. Now the two friends, Jack Cambria and Wally Zines, are being pushed to their limits as they struggle to get everyone out of this house alive. Because I got my daughter in my hands, man. I don't have no more time after this, man. I need my little bit of time to have left. Seeing cases with young children, You never get used to it.
9:41Harold Dow:It's been two hours since this Queens neighborhood awoke to the sound of shotgun blasts. Three people seriously wounded have been rushed to the hospital. It's crazy, look at this. It's like Lebanon. More than 60 New York City police officers have swarmed onto the scene. They have somebody in the house. Some people say they're little kids. Somebody's holding them hot. I'm standing inside police lines. The armed suspect is just a half a block away. The tactical team is on the ready. The negotiators are in that truck. What I want to do is, why don't you give me at least one person out of there? I know what I mean.
10:23Yes, you can.
10:25Harold Dow:Early this morning, Detective Sergeant Wally Zines, Don't you think that I'm being 100 % with you? and Lieutenant Jack Cambria, It's important that we work together. were each about to start enjoying a quiet family weekend. I'm concerned here, and I guarantee you are safe. I'll not tell you that you're going to be safe. I guarantee you are safe. Now they're trying to save the lives of a baby and three other hostages held in this house by the baby's father, Jarrett Jordan. What's going through my head is if I can get one person out, hopefully I'm going to get everyone else out. But you give me one, just one.
11:05I need these people though, because if y 'all make some funny movements, you know what I'm saying? Those hostages are his protection. He knows that as long as he has hostages, in all probability, the police will not come in.
11:18Harold Dow:Jack decides it's time to take a risk. Detectives have tracked down Jarrett's best friend, Brian Howard. Jack is going to break one of his own rules and put Brian directly on the phone with Jarrett. Traditionally, I tend not to want to use non-police personnel to negotiate. negotiate. And the reason being it's an unknown factor that we're introducing. I'm gonna let you talk to him right now. Hold on. What I am hoping is that he will strike a chord within Jarrett because they've been best friends for many many years.
12:02I write a note to Brian to tell him give up one person. Tell him that he can trust Wallet. I know how you feel, man. You know what I'm saying? But you got to trust this cat Wiley, man. Yeah, Wiley's not the way, man.
12:16Harold Dow:Brian can't get Jared to budge. At least give him one person. Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. But their conversation does yield some alarming information. Anything to daughter, man. Cheyenne. Chill. I'm trying to spend my last time with us, huh? Come on, man. You know this is a wrap after this. I just want to scream on Diane one last time. You know what I'm saying? He used this phrase, I'd like to scream at her one last time. Yes, correct. That makes me think that I can turn around and say, well, you see what you made me do? And boom, either take his life, take the life of the child, then be other hostages in the house.
12:51Harold Dow:Yet it's this demand to talk to his ex-girlfriend that Jared comes back to again and again. If I don't talk to her, there's going to be some problems, man. Wally has to tread very carefully now. Where's Diana? I can't find Diana. Because in fact, police have found Diana. She's just down the street, waiting in a police car, terrified for her baby Cheyenne. What thoughts were going through your mind as you're sitting there and the clock is ticking and ticking and ticking? I thought about Cheyenne and I was just, didn't know. I just was lost. The hostage team fears that putting Diane on the phone could be a fatal move for everyone in the house.
13:42Is this Diane yet? She's not here.
13:45Harold Dow:So Wally changes gears. I want to tell you something. The bottom line to this whole thing is your daughter. She's blood. To build a rapport with Jarrett, Wally reveals something of himself. You know, I have little children too, just like you have Cheyenne. I learned about bonding a long time ago. I want to tell you how important a child is to a parent. My son was prematurely born, and he spent 42 days in an incubator. A child is so important to a parent that you watch that child, you look with that child, you stay with that child. That child is an extension of you. And I believe a lot of the bonding that my wife and I did with our son kept him alive and made him the person that he is today.
14:29You need to spend that quality time because the more you look and the more you spend with your child, the more you understand how important life is with that baby. When you look at your own child that you made, you may change your mind on certain things. While Wally does the talking, Jack acts as his coach. Jack listens and he'll be writing down thoughts. I gather some information about his dad. You know, your dad Earl is very upset. I was just talking to him before when you were talking with Brian. And you know, your dad loves you.
15:03Harold Dow:You're trying to do everything in your power to get him to understand he has a reason to live. People care about him. There's another person that loves you. If you're not going to think about yourself, think about all the people that love you. Earl is here. Earl loves you. Brian is with me. We're here together. But it sounds like Jared has his own frightening agenda.
15:31It sounds like he's going to take his own life. Or he can decide to take the whole place out and then himself. So Wally has to keep trying. I'm going to help you walk out of this house. I'm going to help you come out with a smile on your face. I wanted that baby to see the next day. But if he doesn't make progress soon, What's going on, sir? There's nothing going on.
15:53Harold Dow:It's going to be up to the men with the machine guns.
16:07A standoff in Queens as police try to get to a gunman. What do you know about the family? Do you know who's in the house? A 23-year-old man is holding four other people, including a four-month-old baby at gunpoint currently. earlier he allegedly shot three victims in front of the home emergency services and the hostage negotiation team are on the scene three hours after the incident
16:29Harold Dow:began detective sergeant Wally Zine still hasn't persuaded Jared Jordan to release a single hostage how do people in the basement are they still down there or are they upstairs with you besides his baby daughter Jared says he's holding between two men and one woman. I got 12 folks there to me and one down there. The good news, Jarrett is still talking. Listen, I'm sure where you're coming from and everything, but you've got to understand where I'm coming from right now. Time is everything. We all care. The longer you talk... They love you. You know, I care about you. The better chance of getting the hostages out.
17:03But now, Wally's progress could unravel. Yeah, the battery's gone, Dad. Let me recharge this for 15 minutes.
17:10Harold Dow:All because of one dying telephone battery. Your phone's going dead. You want an exchange? Let me tell you something. Reluctantly, the team has to take a break while Jarrett charges his phone. If we keep getting an interruption, it takes the whole train of thought out of what we're trying to get across to him. The hostage team's technician, Stu Goldstein, proposes a solution. We're going to use a throw phone off the 100 foot wheel. The team wants to hand Jarrett a special phone directly wired to the truck. A phone that he can talk to that we have a direct line that can't get interrupted. This will also prevent any outside callers from telling Jarrett anything the police don't want him to hear.
Read the full transcript
17:58Harold Dow:Can I give you an update? Yes. Before Wally tries to make contact again, Jack Cambria's superior officer wants a progress report. He told Brian, his friend, that he just wants to yell at Diane one more time. That's what he wants to do. Chief Esposito agrees. We don't want her to talk more. If they allow Jarrett to talk to his ex-girlfriend Diane, the results could be disastrous. It's the last resort. I'll make that call. Nobody makes that call unless you talk to me first. But he's willing to give Jack and his team more time, for now. It's going to be a long day, all right? A lot is riding on the credibility Wally has established with Jarrett.
18:47Harold Dow:Why is this issue of credibility so important with the negotiators? Because that's what we base our success on. You can be honest with someone for five hours during the negotiation process, and if you get caught up in one lie, then those five hours have just gone down the drain. But that's just what could happen. If Jarrett turns on the news... He just got out of jail. What was he in jail for? Violent. Beating her herself. Beating your daughter? Yeah. Diane's father is telling the press exactly what the police have been hiding from Jarrett. Where's your daughter now? In the car. With the cops.
19:28Dialing up again. 10-4.
19:34Hey Jarrett, it's Wally. Yeah, you got Diane? I'm still looking, but here's what I want to tell you. Well, somebody just called me and told me that we're just talking to her. Talking to Diane? Someone's here. Who's talking to Diane? Listen, listen. I know she's around this. She's not here. Listen, listen, listen. I'm listening.
19:49Harold Dow:Wally has to think fast now to avoid being caught in a lie. First of all, if she was there, here with me, I would have her to. Hoping to avert disaster, Wally tries to get Jarrett to switch the subject and to switch phones. And I worry about your battery on your phone. I have a phone for you. But Jarrett suddenly has urgent questions of his own. Why are people trying to come in the house? There's no one trying to come in the house. I hear them right now, man. You may hear people trying out there. It's none of my people. I have control of all the people. Maybe it's the people that are in the house with you that are walking around.
20:24I'm not. I'm looking for you. John, if you could just stop there for a little bit. He's getting a little excited and concerned about the noise that you might be making.
20:33Harold Dow:And now... What's going on out there, man? Jarrett wants to know about the people he shot this morning. What happened to the people I shot? They're still being worked on. They're not dead. All three were rushed to the hospital. One of them, Dorothy Hicks, is Diane's mother. It looks like... Let me just stick my head out because no one's in here, all right? Give me one second. Can anyone open it? Let me get over to the door. Can anyone tell me how those guys are in the hospital? Yeah, they're going to be all right. They're stable. Okay, they're stable. All right. They're stable. They're okay. Damn.
21:08Why are you upset? When I told him they're still alive, he got a little upset. He wanted them dead. He wanted them dead. Just a lot of blood. Listen, that's okay. That's good in your defense. How is that? We were trying to convince Jared. it's not an absolute that you're going to be spending the rest of your life in jail. Because today you didn't kill him. Secondly, it's only going to be an assault. It's only going to be an assault. However, Jarrett was not a stupid man. Listen, I got three felonies already, man. He knew what the deal was. He wasn't buying it for a minute. Let me help you. When you're ready to come out, when you're ready to do this, let me help you.
21:41I'm here for you, all right? Listen, I just want to talk to Diane, man. Okay, let me just get the status and see what's going on, all right, pal? All right. Later. Hey, listen, before I go, you want any Chinese food or anything? No, I'm all right. Okay, bye. Chinese food? I'm getting hungry. Well, I think while he asked about the Chinese food, was that he was getting hungry. Okay, if we can do it, let's do it now. You have to lighten up. It's a very tense situation. You've got to take a walk sometimes. You've got to get out of there, change gears, call your family. That's all right. He has to fix the lawn.
22:19All right? He has to fix a hole in the wall. That was my 12-year-old son. Yeah, they took that after the winter, but you know... I was supposed to be home to take care of the children. And I was trying to tell him, I'll be home soon and everything's all right.
22:35Harold Dow:In spite of all the intense negotiations you're doing, you still remember to call home to say, I haven't forgotten about you. I haven't forgotten about you. I love you. Listen, I love you. All right? I'll be home as soon as I finish.
22:51To get that baby out, we have to agree on something.
22:54Harold Dow:By noon, Chief Esposito is eager to get things moving. He's especially concerned about Cheyenne. Let's work on getting that baby out, all right? Make it work, brother. The negotiators go back to work. Take this, Rowley. Hello? Hey, it's Wally. How are you? And finally... I'm just trying to do some things to get in my head, man. it looks like their patience is going to pay off. I'm going to just listen. This is what I'm going to do, all right? All right, let me hear your plan. This is my plan right now. Jarrett has a plan.
23:34What I really just wanted to do is just spend this time on my daughter, you know? Okay.
23:38Harold Dow:That's what I want right now. Just over four hours into the hostage standoff. I'm going to just listen. This is what I'm going to do, all right? All right, let me hear your plan. Jared, it appears at least, is starting to make peace with ending this scenario. This is my plan right now. What time is it? That time's it now. Right now it's 10 after 12. It's 10 after 12. I'm gonna put my daughter to sleep and I'm gonna let him and my daughter come out. Okay. Who's gonna bring the baby? I was gonna let the chick bring her. Let the chick. You know, she knows kids. What is she wearing so I know what she looks like?
24:11She got her orange shirt on and these blue or greenish looking jeans. It's getting a little chilly outside. You got a sweater or something for the baby? You got her wrapped up in a blanket. Great. I'm glad to hear that. You know, she sounds cute. She sounds like a real dog. What's the matter? I bet she looks just like you. You know it. I don't even see her, but I can see a little smile on her face looking right in you in the eyes and telling you, Daddy, I love you. Listen, call you back at 1. Bye, brother.
24:39Harold Dow:It's the breakthrough the negotiating team has been waiting for. The plan is one of the fucks. He's gonna wrap the baby up, give it to the female, and bring her out. All right, everybody take five. But Jack Cambria and Wally Zines know there is still a lot that can go wrong. Chief, I think maybe once he lets the baby and the woman out, you know, he might turn around and do these other people in there. You mentioned that Jared might take out the other people. Why did you think that was a possibility? Because he said to me that he's getting aggravated, and he says, I don't know if I like these people.
25:13the first shot goes off we make an entry. I mean it's not a decision I like but it's a decision we have to go with so hopefully the casualties will be as low as possible. Okay. That's all we can do. The least amount of confrontation as possible until we get her and that baby to sleep. Okay. Because otherwise you're going to set them off. You're right, boss. All right? Okay.
25:34Harold Dow:And you're saying on the inner perimeter must have these on? Right. If you don't wear that you're not going to get the inner perimeter. And a helmet. And a helmet. Yes. And a prayer.
25:45One o 'clock. Okay, one o 'clock. One o 'clock. Start with the, you know, how you doing and so on. And then you're going to come back to the plan. Try to hold it to that. Right now it's like a surgeon going in on like open heart surgery. So walk out with the baby, walk towards the truck, behind the truck. You want to make sure that you make the right incisions in the sense of having whoever is going to send the baby out with come out to our plan. Let's start with that approach. All right. Dialing in now. Hey, close the door. Close the door. Hello. Hey, Jared. It's Wally. How you feeling, buddy?
26:22Yeah. I like your plan. Your plan makes a lot of sense. Put the baby in the blanket in the arms of the woman and tell the woman just to walk out towards the rear of that truck that I have outside. And this. No, just call me back. I've got to take care of something. What are you going to do? I've got something to do. Just call me in 15 minutes. 15 minutes?
26:40Harold Dow:Jarrett tries to stall. I can't. Let's make it five. But after five hours of negotiations, Wally is determined to hold him to the plan. I can't. We made an agreement to do it now, man. Honestly, I can't find it. Just call me back, all right? I'll call you back in five minutes. Bye. Off. It's extremely taxing on the emotions. It's all right. It's not coming out yet. You've got to call back in five minutes. We know we're dealing with human life. And we know that we have an awesome burden placed on our shoulders in order to get this all accomplished. Three dollars. Hello? Hey, babe. It's me, Wally.
27:18Let me just get, let me just call you. I'm gonna call you when I'm gonna try. Listen to me. I'll call you when I'm finished. You can't call me. Just because I'm holding the line open. Just leave the phone down by the bed next to you. And this way, and this way. All right, all right, all right.
27:32Harold Dow:Jarrett puts the phone down. Wally listens and waits. He's dressing the baby. He's still on the line. This is a crucial point. You start to get nervous. And I'm wondering what's going on inside.
28:04Okay, he's getting the baby. Just be ready in case. Once the baby comes out, we'll assess it real quickly. All right? You know what the thing that concerns me right now? I'm pretty sure he's going to let the baby and the woman out. And he doesn't like to, he's not too happy with these people. He's positioning them. You all right, bro? He's telling them, yeah, you're all right. I'll tell you, I felt my heart pounding. My mind can feel every beat. The door's open. The door's open. The door's open. The door's open. The door's open. The door's open. The door's open. The door's open. The door's open.
28:39The door's open. 1.30 PM. He might be coming to the door.
28:50Harold Dow:After nearly six hours, everything the team has worked for comes down to this. Hi, that's our team. This is the front team. The baby just came out with us. It's all close to him. She's out. She's out. She's out. Alright, we got the baby. We got a male who came out with the baby. It was supposed to be a female. We're checking him out. The male came out with the baby. But who is the person who brought out little Cheyenne Hicks? Get some intelligence from that guy. The hostage taker says he's going to send the baby out with a woman. That did not happen. He's kind of liking it to getting a fastball when you're expecting a curveball.
29:29Harold Dow:Is he a real hostage or the hostage taker trying to escape? One of our thoughts was Jared trying to disguise himself as a hostage. My name is Alexander. James Alexander. I was being whole hot because I talked to him. The man identifies himself as James Alexander. I brought the baby out, man. Oh, Lord. Cheyenne is safe. Now that baby can wake up the next day. That baby can have a first birthday.
30:06It's a great relief and it's a very warm feeling.
30:12Harold Dow:But police believe Cheyenne's father, Jarrett, is still holding two more hostages. Jarrett, it's Wally. Come over to the phone, brother. You're a man of your word. Jarrett. And they're concerned that he stopped talking to Detective Sergeant Wally Zines. Too quiet in there now. Meanwhile, baby Cheyenne has been put in an ambulance. The baby's fine. We're going to be taking to hospital for a check. Now James Alexander, the man Jarrett released with the baby, reveals some startling information. Is there anybody else in there besides you and the baby? That's it. He's by himself. He's by himself. According to him, it's just him and the baby.
30:57So what do you operate with? What do you do? We're going to still assume that there are still other hostages inside.
31:03Harold Dow:Then Alexander drops a bombshell. Tell me what you have to do. He shot himself up in here. I seen him. He took one. He took one. I think when I bring the baby out, the bullet went off. He had a shotgun, a two-gauge shotgun. The guy said that the perv whacked himself. He said he was running out with the baby. He goes, are you going to be all right? And then he heard the bang. We would have heard something. We would have heard it. Lieutenant Jack Cambria is puzzled. How could they not have heard a shotgun blast? Let me just see if I can call his name out. What's going through your mind? You don't hear anything.
31:41Harold Dow:Jared, this is Wally. You have this little intelligence from the hostage James Alexander that Jared shot himself. I'm hoping to God that he didn't. Wally is hoping, for Cheyenne's sake, that her father is okay. Jared, this is Wally. Pick up the phone. I want to make sure that all is well. Lieutenant Machico on here? Jared. Jared, this is Wally. I'm here, Jared. Sean, do you still have the bullhorn over there? Jared, pick up the phone. I want to make sure that you're okay, brother. I need the canine to come up. They call for a police dog, trained to locate threats. Canine's coming. Come on, I want you to come out.
32:24Or at least let me know that you're okay. You have a long life ahead of you. You have a great life ahead of you. We're sending a canine with an entry team in the front tent. And everybody else is going to hold off him. They're making an entry now. Dogs in the apartment. It's about to be here to the apartment now. Copy? This is it. We're going to know now. Watch.
32:50Anyone, canine, if you can hear me, this is where the cordless phone is.
32:57ESU, this is a dog is barking. Hi, puppy. Dog is barking. Tell them the dog's in the room where the phone is.
33:04Harold Dow:The dog's barking means there's still at least one person inside. We're going to pull the dog out. We're going to put the team in, all right? Put the team inside. All right. Take a nice and slow. But with Wally getting no reply at all, the ESU team moves in cautiously. All right, you there, Merti. We're making entry. We've got a perp. We've got one. We've got one perp. Is he allowed to die? It looks possible there's DOA in the living room, still searching. Hello?
33:36He's just on the roll.
33:44Harold Dow:The standoff is finally over. After six hours, police discover that Jarrett never did have any other hostages. After spending the final moments of his troubled life with his four-month-old daughter Cheyenne, he turned the shotgun on himself. My stomach dropped when I heard that he shot himself. I feel bad about that guy. Yeah, you do. Of course you do. Absolutely. You're speaking to the guy and you're up to resolve it. Wally had just spent some seven hours investing his heart and soul into keeping not only the baby and the other hostages alive, but Jared as well. Where did he do it? He's right in the living room.
34:29He sat on the floor. Why didn't we get that shot? I don't know. Maybe he muffled it, he put it under his neck and he pulled the trigger. Shotgun's found between the floor. Guys, great job as always. Thank you. Thank you, boys. Everybody was congratulating everybody. But you can sense the mood. That our hearts weren't really in that.
34:47Harold Dow:Wally Zines was the last person to hear Jarrett's voice, and it's echoing in his head. I don't have no more time after this, man. I'm not going to be walking out this house. This gets to you, doesn't it? It gets to anybody. We're all human beings.
35:10We have employed good negotiation tactics. We have some of the best and most well-trained and experienced hostage negotiators in the country.
35:31Later that day at the hospital, family members learned that Diane's mother Dorothy, wounded
35:39Harold Dow:by Jarrett that morning, has died. Do you think he was trying to hurt you? Yes. And he succeeded in doing that too. Three days later, Diane buries her mother. Earth to earth, ashes to ashes, and dust to dust. Jack and Wally must deal with their own emotional burdens from that day. It had an impact on all of us. Jack remains stoic. I try to stay detached in order to be objective about the job, about the situation. While Wally does some soul searching. Did I say the right thing? Did I do something wrong? We did have a success. We brought out little Cheyenne. But the two veterans don't have time to dwell on the incident.
36:35We have an individual on the train right now who's dropped with explosives. We're not exactly sure what he wants. We're going to try to find that out.
36:43Harold Dow:Jack gets busy training the next generation of negotiators. Call me back in one minute and I'll give you my demands. One minute, 60 seconds. One second, I understand that. You seek to make a difference. I'm a passenger, help! And I still have that same desire. We'll just hang somewhere and wait for the next job to come in. For Wally, he has some decisions to make. It's Friday night, let the games begin. Wally doesn't want to chase any more shadows in the New York night. Night wide, Sergeant Central. Night wide, Sergeant. Give me an update on 4, 6, and 8. In June, he made the call. Deciding to retire, he knew it would be hard.
37:30I'll always be sad. Ride off into the sunset, and they'll say, who is that masked man?
37:39Less than an hour after the hostage standoff ended, dozens of police gathered near the site for an informal review, a kind of post-game analysis. They talked about what worked and what didn't. Police determined that their mobile command center, the truck, wasn't in the best location at the start. It could have become a target. On the negotiating side, police felt they handle things about as well as could be expected. While every police hostage negotiator in New York City is issued a detailed manual on how to negotiate, They also know you can't always go by the book.
From the publisher
An inside look at a hostage negotiation team at work focusing on an incident involving 23-year-old Jarrett Jordan, a disturbed man who shot three people and barricaded himself in a house in residential Queens. He had with him his four-month-old daughter. “48 Hours" Correspondent Harold Dow reports.
This classic "48 Hours" episode last aired on 8/9/2003. Watch all-new episodes of “48 Hours” on Saturdays, and stream on demand on Paramount+.
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