The Unlikely Suspect | Fifteen

10:00Chris Campion:And not necessarily just the victims. but the people who do these horrendous things, what the public perceives as the horrendous things.

10:09Daniel Marsh:They agreed that people might do horrible things, but that doesn't make them horrible people.

10:16Chris Campion:That's not what they planned on for their lives, right? But why did you get there? How did you get there? And I ask them, you know, and they're sometimes very honest. And they say, Chris, it's just, I can't not do it. I can't not have it. It's what I think about all the time. Something might be a form of a CD. It's an obsession, for sure. And it's a compulsion because they can't not do it.

10:49Daniel Marsh:Campion's approach to questioning fascinated me. I asked him where he was going with it.

10:55Chris Campion:Well, the biggest theme with Daniel that I suspected is that he didn't feel like anybody else could understand what was going on in his head. That he thought that he was unique, that nobody else felt like this. And so I tried to reassure him that I had talked to other people who have had these kind of very dark thoughts and fantasies. and that I wasn't going to look at him like he was an evil, terrible person, that I could understand, try to understand what was going on in his interior life, in his thoughts.

11:32Daniel Marsh:Daniel was opening up more and more. Campion learned that Daniel's father suffered from back and neck injuries.

11:41Chris Campion:How does he get along? I mean, that's got to be constant pain. Yeah, not very well. It makes him pretty irritable. doesn't help with his temper, but he's on a lot of painkillers. Does he look like one of those guys that we have so many in our society right now, Dan, that just are kind of addicted, like Brett Favre, a football player? Yeah. Would you say that that's... I'd say that both of my parents are addicted to painkillers.

12:08Daniel Marsh:According to Daniel, there was one point when he and his sister had to take care of their mom when she was diagnosed with a disease affecting the nerves in her face.

12:20Chris Campion:She has fibromyalgia and trigeminal neuralgia. And she might have MS. They're not sure yet.

12:33Daniel Marsh:Daniel coped with his parents' behavior, he said, by slowly trying to starve himself. Ultimately, he checked into an eating disorder clinic for 25 days. But after treatment, he still sought other ways to harm himself. At that point, Special Agent Campion leaned forward to have a closer look. Daniel extended his arm.

13:19Daniel Marsh:Daniel told Campion that his parents never found out about those attempts on his own life. At the time of the police interview, Daniel had just turned 16. He had spent much of the conversation with Special Agent Campion discussing the many problems in his life. But he also told him that his outlook on life had started to improve somewhat when he began to take antidepressant and antipsychotic medication.

13:52Chris Campion:Yeah, it's gotten to the point where I actually wake up in the morning and I want to be alive. You know, like I want to experience what life has. has, you know, I mean, I'm 16. I've just started, got my whole life ahead of me. I've experienced all the things that they already experienced.

14:14Daniel Marsh:But Campion didn't see this revelation quite the same way Daniel did. He didn't think Daniel Marsh was actually getting better or healthier. Campion had reached a far more chilling conclusion.

14:31Chris Campion:Well, to the casual observer, you might think he's just, you know, he's getting through his depression. And, you know, this is a good thing. He's looking forward to a life of doing positive things. In my mind, as I'm listening to that, I'm thinking he's looking forward to being a serial killer.

14:49Daniel Marsh:You're actually thinking that. Yes. And why are you getting that?

14:52Chris Campion:When I worked with the profilers on analyzing this case, and they've taught this to people such as myself, FBI agents out in the field for years, these people are fantasy driven. The people who commit a crime, like we saw in the crime scene photos of this double murder, they're motivated by a fantasy. Their interior life is completely obsessed with this fantasy that he has. and Daniel's, we find out later, is about death and mutilation and murder and gore. And so I knew that that was going on in his mind. So that's why I felt pretty confident he was talking about looking forward to his future as a criminal.

15:41Chris Campion:This is what gave him pleasure. This is what gave him meaning in his life. This is what really thrilled him. And he found that and could leave the depression behind.

16:05Chris Campion:What exactly are you guys trying to get from me?

16:12Daniel Marsh:Daniel had asked, what exactly are you guys trying to get from me? Close to two hours into questioning, FBI special agent Campion revealed concerns over some of Daniel's online postings.

16:29Chris Campion:People who are much more tech savvy than me, because I'm just an old guy, I don't know anything about anything, found this thing called Tumblr. And your Tumblr page, is that the right account? Yeah, yeah.

16:44Daniel Marsh:Daniel had an account on Tumblr. It's a blogging platform where users can share videos, pictures, or text posts. Daniel's page was public, but under a pseudonym. On it, he had curated and saved a series of unsettling images.

17:03Chris Campion:There were all sorts of images like Iraq war deaths, you know, roadside bomb aftermath, sniper killings, horror movies, you know, Hollywood-type horror movie images. all mixed together, crime scene photographs from different types of violent crimes. So he had a little bit of everything, but the common theme was gore and violence and death.

17:28Daniel Marsh:How unusual is that for a 16-year-old?

17:31Chris Campion:Very, I think, very unusual for any age, quite frankly. It's not a focus or an obsession with most people.

17:43Daniel Marsh:Campion kept patiently probing. He needed to understand why Daniel focused so much on gore and violence.

18:14Chris Campion:not a lot of stuff makes me laugh and so it's like I like horror movies and it's just it's the same thing as a horror movie only it's real and since I don't have any connection to whoever it happened to it doesn't really bother me right so it's kind of like the cutting it's a feeling right yeah seriously like it makes me feel something and I'm just always kind of been into darker stuff.

18:47Daniel Marsh:Darker stuff that would spook most people seemed to thrill Daniel.

18:54Chris Campion:I don't know, it makes me feel like shocked and I don't know, I'm fascinated with anatomy and so you can see what happened to them and how warped their bodies are and just It's kind of fascinating to think, like, what could have done that? How did that happen?

19:20Chris Campion:Why did that happen? Just how did this all come to play? And I don't know. Sometimes they'll be, like, in a funny pose or something, and it'll just look, like, stupid. And so I'll, like, giggle at it.

19:40Daniel Marsh:Finally, Agent Campion got to the point of the long interview and directly brought up why Daniel was being asked all these questions. The tips they received that he had killed Chip and Claudia.

19:57Chris Campion:That you were there, that you did those murders. Me.

20:10That's...

20:11Chris Campion:ridiculous. Why is it ridiculous? I'm a kid. No, that's... Well, like, I don't... I don't hurt people. Like, you can ask anyone around me. I'm a compassionate, affectionate person. I care about people. I don't... when I hurt them. I mean, yeah, they piss me off sometimes, and... They do some messed up shit, but I care about people.

20:41Daniel Marsh:What were you thinking at that point? I mean, I found them kind of convincing. Did you at all?

20:47Chris Campion:No, I did not at that point. I mean, what would the normal innocent person do? Are you kidding me? You think I murdered those people? Absolutely not. That's ridiculous. You really think it's me? Something like that.

21:04Daniel Marsh:The FBI agent had just confronted Daniel with the reason they had brought him in. They had evidence that Daniel committed the murders. Now Cambion had to get Daniel to admit it.

21:19Chris Campion:I see you as a person who has a need. You have a big need. You have a need for a refuge. Maybe more than anybody I've ever run across. And at age 16, just 16, that's remarkable. I don't know if that's a good thing, probably not, but it is an unusual thing to see, to meet a person like you, Dan, who has been through some of the things you have and has this need, the compulsion, I think the need to do something to feel. Well, yeah, but I don't hurt people.

22:12Daniel Marsh:Over and over again, Daniel continued to deny that he could have killed anyone. I don't want to kill anyone. I don't want to hurt anyone.

22:27Chris Campion:The person who did this will do it again. I have no doubt about it. They can't not. It's the inside of obsession and it's the compulsion.

22:45Chris Campion:Well then maybe that's where you'll find your eyes. Sir, it's not me.

22:53Daniel Marsh:Almost three hours had passed in the interview room. It was a standoff. Special Agent Campion stepped out of the room. Daniel cracked his knuckles and wiped his face with a tissue. When Campion returned, he was holding a DNA swab kit.

23:15Chris Campion:I'd like to take your DNA to check it again. things that have been found at the crime scene. Pretty much standard CSI kind of stuff. Any problem with that? Okay.

23:27Daniel Marsh:Special Agent Campion asked Daniel to remove his boots. Then he again asked Daniel about the elderly couple who had lived near his father.

23:39Chris Campion:Have you ever been inside of that house? No. Either when they were there or when they weren't there? When? I went in once when we first moved there. Okay. What were the circumstances of that? Neighbors, meeting neighbors. It was just kind of a welcome thing, you know?

24:00Daniel Marsh:Daniel said that he had been to Chip and Claudia's house once when his father first moved to the community. It was just a, quote, welcome thing. Neighbors meeting neighbors. But it turned out that Daniel knew quite a lot about Chip and Claudia's home. He had actually been invited inside with his father two years earlier.

24:44Chris Campion:He was planting the, in the contingency that there was DNA evidence there, he was planting the thought that maybe that could have been the reason.

24:55Daniel Marsh:As another officer began opening the DNA swab packaging, Campion picked up Daniel's boots and began probing for more information.

25:08Chris Campion:Anything unusual about these? I don't think so. Did you ever warn them around blood?

25:21Maybe.

25:22Chris Campion:I get a lot of nerve fleets. So maybe they got on that. Okay. But if that was to be the case, it would be your blood. I think it was. We started talking about his boots, which I think he realized were the same boots that he had worn the night of the murders. and he realized he probably didn't clean those to remove all of the physical evidence. We started talking about his cell phone and the fact that cell phones are basically personal tracking devices and, you know, we could track his movements on particular days and times. So those factors, I think, started weighing on him that he wasn't going to be able to talk his way out of this and the walls started closing in on him.

26:06Chris Campion:You guys are threatening me with f***ing things. With what? The truth? With getting arrested for two murders. I am so f***ing... I am so scared right now. Of course I'm going to do anything I can to try and say that I didn't do this. That was the first sign that he was getting over that wall. That he was getting ready to talk to us about what really happened. If you want to help me, then don't ruin my life. Anything, send me to the psychiatric hospital.

26:46Daniel Marsh:Backed into a corner,

26:51Daniel Marsh:Daniel Marsh seemed to see that he was trapped. Chris, were you really prepared for what he told you next? Um, no.

27:07Chris Campion:Every time I look at someone in my mind, I see flashes of images of me killing them in numerous ways, in numerous horrible ways, doing terrible things. I can't help it. It's just what comes into my head when I see them. I don't want it to. I don't like that it does, but it does.

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27:47Chris Campion:There's a guy screaming into his phone. He's like, I just saw Charlie Kirk get assassinated right in front of me. Every week is a new episode and a new story. It was so chaotic. It's almost like a university and a siege.

27:59Daniel Marsh:Listen to and follow Campus Files, available now wherever you get your podcasts.

28:07Daniel Marsh:Daniel admitted to Special Agent Campion that he had spent years thinking about killing people and that he made it a reality on that April night.

28:20Chris Campion:When was the first time you started thinking about throwing these people down the street? That night I just couldn't take it anymore. I had to do it. I lost control of my little. I just went into the street.

28:43Wandered around for a while just looking for who would be in which house I should go to. It would be a good thing.

28:56Daniel Marsh:Daniel said he had walked through his father's South Davis neighborhood in the middle of the night. He scouted most of the street and checked out 50 homes. Everyone had done a good job of locking their doors and closing their windows until I got to their house. When he got to Chip and Claudia's home, he noticed that they had left a back window open. So he cut the screen and climbed through.

29:30Chris Campion:I listened to her snoring, and I heard it. Went to their bedroom. I opened the door. And I just kind of stood over their bed watching them sleep for a few minutes. My body was trembling. I was nervous but excited and exhilarated. I was actually going to do it. I was there. It's finally happening.

30:03Daniel Marsh:He said at that point, Claudia woke up. I just started static shape over and over. all from the torso

30:18Chris Campion:and I tried to get and then the husband woke up and he looked over and just as he looked over I stabbed him in the neck

30:28Daniel Marsh:and he didn't stop Daniel Marsh stabbed both Chip and Claudia a combined 128 times I made sure they were both dead and then I just kind of kept stabbing their dead bodies. Don't know why, it just felt right. Okay.

30:54Chris Campion:Even after they stopped living? Even when they were dead, I wasn't done. Daniel admitted to all of it.

31:04Daniel Marsh:And I just kind of messed around with... I started on the phone, cut open both of her torsos around here, and in the moment I put

31:19Chris Campion:a phone inside of her and I put a cup inside the guy. I don't know why. I really don't. Okay. and I cut open her leg. I don't know why I did that either. I just kind of wanted to see.

31:37Daniel Marsh:The horrific details Daniel shared matched crime scene reports and the autopsies. But what he said afterwards was even more outrageous.

31:52Chris Campion:I'm not going to lie. It felt amazing. How did it feel there?

32:03It felt great.

32:06Chris Campion:It was pure happiness and adrenaline and dopamine, just all of it rushing over me. It's the most exhilarating, enjoyable feeling I've ever felt.

32:23Daniel Marsh:Special agent Chris Campion never changed the tone of his voice during the hours-long interview. He never reacted visibly to anything Daniel Marsh said to him. But he later admitted to me that Daniel Marsh was the most dangerous suspect he had ever interviewed. With everything out in the open, Daniel was then willing to walk the police through where they could find the rest of the evidence. The ski mask he wore, his gloves, his pants. He had stashed it all in his mother's garage, but he kept the jacket.

33:06Chris Campion:It's kind of a little memento and a constant reminder of what happened. Just so I can see it and kind of relive it.

33:22Daniel Marsh:Daniel knew his admission of guilt was going to lead to an arrest and was curious about what would come next.

33:49Daniel Marsh:There was one moment from Campion's interview with Daniel that especially shocked me. In my years of reporting on crime, I had never heard anything like it in a police interrogation. For the prosecutors building a case against Daniel, it was just one more example of how dangerous Daniel would be if he wasn't put behind bars for a long time. That's next time on 15 Inside the Daniel Marsh Murders.

34:34Daniel Marsh:This series was reported by me, Erin Moriarty. Alan Pang is our producer. Maura Walls is our story editor. And Jamie Benson is the senior producer. Megan Marcus is the Vice President of Podcast Editorial for CBS. Special thanks to 48 Hours Executive Producer Judy Teigard, along with 48 Hours Producers Judy Ryback, Stephanie Slifer, and Greg Fisher. From Goat Rodeo, this podcast was written and produced by Kara Schillen, Max Johnston, Jay Venables, Isabel Kirby McGowan, Megan Nadolsky, and Ian Enright. Additional reporting and recording by Kara Schillen. Our executive producers at Goat Rodeo are Megan Nadolsky and Ian Enright.

35:30Daniel Marsh:Original theme and music by Hans Nelshi with additional music from Paramount. Final mix by Rebecca Seidel. Vendel Fulton is our fact checker. Our production manager is Kara Schillen. I'm Erin Moriarty. If you're enjoying this show, be sure to give it a rating and review. It helps more people find it and hear our reporting. If you liked 15 Inside the Daniel Marsh Murders, check out the rest of our 48 Hours podcast by searching 48 Hours on your favorite podcast app. Thanks for listening.

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36:55Daniel Marsh:Are they criminals? Maybe they're a cult.

36:57Chris Campion:Who are these guys? Why are they here? It's not my job to tell you the truth. Wild Boys, Strangers in Town. Now streaming on Paramount+.