In short
The murder of 2-year-old Dylan Farrar in a Texas foster home, the ensuing investigation, and the murder trial of his foster father Charles Richard Forshay—ending in Forshay’s acquittal.
Guest backgrounds
Amanda Deberry is Dylan’s mother; she was 21 and had children young, including Lucas at 16, and later faced an abusive relationship. Charles and Linda Forche were licensed foster parents with 17 years’ experience and took in 90+ foster children. Lucas Farrar is Dylan’s brother and the state’s key witness; he was 3–4 during the events and testified via closed-circuit TV. Prosecutor Anshu Sonny Mitchell and defense attorney Stanley Schneider argue competing theories.
Key claims
Autopsy ruled Dylan’s death as suffocation homicide. Lucas claimed Forshay put a pillow over Dylan’s face. Mitchell argued Forshay snapped from exhaustion and smothered Dylan. Schneider argued Lucas caused the death and that Lucas’s testimony was actually describing CPR.
Notable examples
Lucas’s videotaped statement the day after Dylan died; Linda’s reports/photos of Lucas’s aggressive behavior; courtroom testimony where Lucas repeatedly answered “no/nope” to some questions; jurors citing Lucas’s credibility and the defense’s CPR theory.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOAmanda's Struggles and Family Dynamics
1:41 to 3:00
Gain insight into Amanda's life, family, and challenges.
“He'd sit in your lap and cuddle, and that's the way that I want to remember him.”
The Impact of Trauma on Amanda
3:00 to 4:25
Understand Amanda's difficult choices and their consequences.
“You had your first baby at the age of 16.”
The Forche Family and Foster Care
4:25 to 5:47
Explore the Forche family's extensive experience with foster care.
“and when I was giving the baby up for adoption, I was doing the smart thing.”
The Tragic Night of Dylan's Death
5:47 to 7:20
Delve into the events leading to Dylan's tragic death.
“Charles was a technician for Southwestern Bell, while Linda stayed home and took care of the children.”
The Investigation and Murder Charge
7:20 to 8:20
Learn about the investigation surrounding Dylan's death.
“And the nurse said, I'm sorry, you know, we've done everything we can.”
Lucas as a Key Witness
8:20 to 9:29
Discover the significant role Lucas plays in the murder trial.
“They ruled it affixia due to suffocation homicide.”
Reflections on Loss and Grief
10:45 to 11:58
Reflect on Amanda's journey through grief and loss on Dylan's birthday.
“Today is Dylan's birthday, and we're going to let all these balloons go.”
The Trial and Accusations Against Forche
11:58 to 14:01
Understand the accusations against Charles Forche in Dylan's death.
“At my age with what the charges are, if I go in jail, I probably won't come out.”
The Tragic Death of Dylan
14:01 to 16:38
Explore the events leading to the tragic death of two-year-old Dylan.
“And I feel like I don't know why we're going through this hell right now.”
The Role of Lucas: A Brother's Behavior
16:39 to 18:11
Discussion on Lucas's aggressive behavior and concerns about his actions.
“He says Charles Forshay did not kill Dylan, but he knows who did.”
Show all 24 chapters
Preparing for the Trial
18:12 to 19:48
Insight into Lucas's preparation for testifying at the trial.
“But what do you miss the most about him?”
Child Testimony: The Challenges
19:49 to 22:40
Examination of the complexities surrounding child witness testimony.
“He's going to be Spider-Man and help out all the people of the city by being Spider-Man and telling the truth about what he saw.”
The Trial Begins: Key Witnesses
22:41 to 26:05
Overview of the trial proceedings and witness testimonies presented.
“He didn't like that pillow over his face, so he was crying.”
Amanda's Reflection on Dylan
27:11 to 28:00
Amanda shares her memories of Dylan and her thoughts on the trial outcome.
“Amanda still calls Dylan her sunshine baby.”
The Weight of Uncertainty
28:00 to 28:37
Discover the emotional turmoil of a mother facing a trial involving her son.
“But will a jury believe young Lucas and take away a man's freedom?”
Defense Strategy: A Controversial Approach
28:37 to 30:00
Learn about the risky defense strategy that blames a child for a brother's death.
“Defense attorney Stanley Schneider has devised a risky plan of attack.”
Testimony Under Fire
30:00 to 31:37
Explore how witness testimonies shape the case and the defense's arguments.
“Schneider is about to use Linda Forche to score another key point of his defense.”
Expert Opinions and Their Impact
31:37 to 33:59
Examine the role of expert witnesses in influencing the jury's perception.
“He's always wearing the testimony of giving his case-no-trial.”
The Emotional Toll of the Trial
33:59 to 35:11
Understand the emotional burden experienced by family members involved in the case.
“A three-year-old child cannot and would not do that.”
Closing Arguments and the Verdict
36:22 to 38:14
Witness the final moments of the trial as closing arguments are presented.
“in closing arguments could set Charles for Shay free if he fails for Shay will be condemned as the killer of Dylan Farrar.”
Reflections on the Jury's Decision
38:14 to 41:23
Listen to jurors discuss their thought process and the implications of their verdict.
“We basically went around the room and everybody said what they thought.”
Aftermath: Lives Forever Changed
41:23 to 42:00
Explore the lasting impact of the trial on both families and the community.
“So, in the end, the boy who was encouraged to tell the truth is now sheltered from it.”
Reflections on Loss and Guilt
42:00 to 42:59
Explore the emotions surrounding the death of a child and familial responsibility.
“For now, Amanda hopes that Lucas will live a life more typical of a four-year-old and prays he'll always remember that he once had a baby brother.”
The Mysterious Disappearance of Gary Ferris
42:59 to 43:35
Uncover the chilling details of Gary Ferris's disappearance and the family's search.
“When beloved family patriarch Gary Ferris went missing, his family looked everywhere on their property until they came across something horrifying.”
Transcript
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1:52Dylan was just very, very sweet. Everybody adored him. He'd sit in your lap and cuddle, and that's the way that I want to remember him.
2:07Troy Roberts:Amanda Deberry always dreamed of having a family. What is your favorite photo? My favorite photo is this one, just because he looks so innocent. You know, just really the true face of innocence. Her baby boy Dylan and his big brother Lucas meant the world to her and to each other. When Dylan was born, I told Lucas, you know, this is our baby. And Lucas enjoyed Dylan. But in her effort to give her boys a safe and loving home, Amanda wound up losing Dylan and putting Lucas in the middle of a heartbreaking mystery that will change his life forever. Love you. Look at this one. Okay. She's only 21, but Amanda has had to grow up pretty quickly.
2:57That one? Okay, put a circle around that one.
2:59Troy Roberts:And she admits to making mistakes along the way. You had your first baby at the age of 16. Yeah, I had Lucas at 16. Why was it important for you to have children at such a young age? My parents got divorced. And, you know, when I was like 13, I just, you know, I'm like, okay, well, I want to have a family. But that ideal family life never happened for Amanda. Instead, she found herself at age 19 trapped in an abusive relationship with Lucas' father and pregnant with her third child. You know, all these goals and all these dreams, you know, and it was hard because I felt like I failed again. The biggest mistake is the mistake that I made.
3:47Troy Roberts:She was too embarrassed to tell her mother, Judy Tinsley. For whatever reason, I made my daughter feel like she couldn't come to me and say, Hey, Mom, I've messed up. I'm pregnant again. I need help. Amanda sought refuge at a shelter for battered women here in Houston, Texas, and she decided to put the baby she was carrying up for adoption. When doctors put her on bed rest, the shelter urged her to have someone else care for the boys until she gave birth. It was a decision that will haunt her for the rest of her life. You know, I really thought when I put my kids into foster care and when I was giving the baby up for adoption, I was doing the smart thing.
4:31and it didn't turn out like that at all. Homes of St. Mark, may I help you?
4:39Troy Roberts:Amanda turned to the homes of St. Mark. Are you interested in newborn adoption? A private foster care agency licensed by the state of Texas. The agency had what seemed to be an ideal solution. A couple with 17 years of experience as foster parents. Charles and Linda Forche. Babies were always on me. It didn't matter. From the little ones to the big ones. You know, they were showing love to you, and you were showing love back. Ready, Mama? Go. The Forchers had two sons who were adopted, and over the years took in more than 90 foster children. Here, this is Julian. That's the code. Why accept that many children into your home over all these years?
5:28Why not? That's the only answer I can give you. They needed a place, and we had the room at the time. I think when we got married, we said we wanted a big family, didn't we? Yeah. So we had it. For us, it wasn't chaotic. This was normal. It was normal.
5:48Troy Roberts:Charles was a technician for Southwestern Bell, while Linda stayed home and took care of the children. The Fourchays, once honored as Foster Parents of the Year, seemed to be the answer to Amanda's prayers. When you saw them during the visits, did the boys seem okay? Yeah. You thought your children would be safe in their care? Yeah. But two months into the children's stay, there was trouble inside the Fourchay home, the evening of June 21, 2001. After Lucas and Dylan had gone to bed that night, Linda went into the room and found Dylan unconscious in his crib. So I picked him up and took him out in the front room and told Charlie something was wrong.
6:33And I happened to notice that he was a little blue around the lips. And Charlie took him and started CPR on him. Now I want to transfer. Go ahead, ma 'am. What's going on? I had a little boy that I put to bed and I went and checked him and he's not breathing. Okay, sure. Yes, he's starting to turn blue. He was crying when he went to the hospital. Okay, where are you right now? My husband's got him on the floor trying to do CPR. Okay.
6:56Troy Roberts:The paramedics arrived quickly, but it was too late. By the time Amanda and her mother Judy were called to the hospital, Dylan had died. You know, they had all kinds of things hooked up to him. And I went over there and I wanted to hold him. But I don't even think at that point I realized that he was dead. As I was running into the room, I said, Dylan, it's okay, Grandma's here. We're going to get you out of here. And the nurse said, I'm sorry, you know, we've done everything we can. He's gone. And he was cold. He was so cold. Amanda and her mother were in shock. I'm sorry. And the fourshades say they were just as devastated.
7:52That night's been a nightmare. Because it was like losing one of her own children. I'm sorry. I felt I lost a child that night. He was my child and I lost him.
8:08Troy Roberts:Everyone wondered how Dylan could suddenly die one month shy of his second birthday. The unbearable answer came three months later when the autopsy report was released. They ruled it affixia due to suffocation homicide. Dylan had been murdered, and Sergeant Bruce Williams says police knew who was responsible. We think Charles Forche actually committed the murder. Charles Forche, a man who devoted his life to taking care of children, was charged with an unthinkable crime. based on the statement of an eyewitness to the murder. What did he say? He said Mr. Charlie put the pillow on Dylan's face. Dylan's brother Lucas, who was only three at the time.
8:55And he hurt him and we had to come to the hospital.
8:59Troy Roberts:A little over a year later, the future of a 56-year-old man is in the hands of a now 4-year-old boy. Lucas doesn't realize it yet, but he's about to become the state's star witness as Charles Forche goes on trial for murder.
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10:57I miss you, baby boy. Keep guiding Mommy through her dreams. We love you and miss you so much. Today is Dylan's birthday, and we're going to let all these balloons go. You hold that part, and I'll hold this part. We're going to say a prayer, and hope they all get to him. Are you ready? Amanda Deberry's son, Dylan, would have turned three today. Everybody let him go. Let go. Let go. Here we go. Off to Dylan. Happy birthday, Dylan. Today I'm just trying not to think about Charles Forche. This is the room that the boys are in.
11:38Troy Roberts:Charles Forche is the man Amanda believes is responsible for her son's death. He was Dylan's foster father. This is my leg monitor. Now he has been charged with his murder. For 12 hours a day I'm tied to this house. And he's been waiting for over a year to go on trial. At my age with what the charges are, if I go in jail, I probably won't come out. Forshay is fighting for his life because of what his other foster son, Lucas, Lucas said the night Dylan died. Lucas was just grabbing my shirt and he was like, Mom, I have to tell you something, I have to tell you something, I have to tell you something.
12:18What did he say? He said Mr. Charlie put the pillow on Dylan's face. And he hurt him and we had to come to the hospital. How old are you, Lucas?
12:29Troy Roberts:Lucas repeated his story the next day in this videotape statement obtained exclusively by 48 hours. Charlie Laleigh let him, he said lay down and he put a photo on his face and the police took him to the hospital. Why was Charlie yelling at Dylan? Because he told him to lay down. He don't like that pen over his face. And you believed him that very first time? Oh yeah. Yeah. Kids just don't say things like that off the top of their head. But kids do have wild imaginations though, Amanda. About monsters. About, you know, creepy things in their closet. Not about someone they know walking into a room and hurting their best friend.
13:27I had a lot of fun. These were all my friends. I played with all these babies, took care of them.
13:35Troy Roberts:Forche's sons, Richard, 28, and Brian, 21, say he was a great father. Been there through everything, thick and thin. A firm disciplinarian, but never physical. He has a stern voice. He has never raised a fist to us, never got spanked. So many people, even at church and that, would tell us, oh, you've got a special gift. And everybody would say, oh, you're going to be rewarded in heaven. You're going to have your own special star. And I feel like I don't know why we're going through this hell right now.
14:14We are left with a child who was clearly murdered. He did not die by accident. He was murdered.
14:20Troy Roberts:Prosecutor Anshu Sonny Mitchell says Forshay snapped that night because he was exhausted from working overtime, 13 days straight. She says Forshay just couldn't cope with Dylan's crying and smothered him. Anybody's capable of snapping at any point. I mean, anything can change how you've been all along. One thing is undisputed. On the night of June 21, 2001, Dylan and Lucas were rambunctious and refused to settle down. A third foster child was already asleep. Dylan was screaming, and basically I figured Lucas was aggravating his brother. First, Linda tried several times to calm Dylan down. Then her husband went into the room and says he tried soothing the baby with a back rub.
15:12I put my hand in the middle of his back and was rubbing his back to calm him down. And told him if he wanted to cry, cry in the pillow. How much pressure were you applying?
15:22Troy Roberts:Just put my hand on his back. But what Forshay told police that night was far more incriminating. His statement reads, I flipped him over onto his stomach. I then placed my hand on the middle of his back to hold him down. Dylan was trying to get up and I held him down. Forche says Dylan was still crying and therefore very much alive when he left the room. Shortly after that, Linda found Dylan unconscious in his crib. Lucas was standing next to the bed with his hand in the baby's bed, and he hurried up and jumped over the end of his bed and made a nosedive into the pillow. But Dylan didn't move.
16:03So I picked him up and took him out in the front room and told Charlie something was wrong. I laid him on the floor and started CPR and told her to call 911. Is it possible, Charlie, that you don't know your own strength? Is it possible that you lost your temper that night? Is it possible you manhandled the child? No. No.
16:31No. This is such a tough, tough case. You have a dead child and a wonderful man.
16:37Troy Roberts:Forshay has hired prominent defense attorney Stanley Schneider, who plans a defense that seems just too incredible to believe. He says Charles Forshay did not kill Dylan, but he knows who did. Dylan's brother Lucas. Are you telling me that this boy, who was three at the time, is capable of murder? We're not talking about murder. If someone caused the death, there's a possibility it was Lucas. His own brother. Yeah. And I don't think it was intentional. I don't think he realized what he was doing. The Forshays say that from the beginning of the boys' stay, they were concerned about Lucas' overly aggressive behavior.
17:21Troy Roberts:They knew Amanda had been physically abused by Lucas' father and that Lucas had seen the violence. He has put pillows over his brother's head, pushed his brother's head into pillows. You saw him do that? Yes. Linda documented Lucas' behavior in her monthly reports to the foster care agency. She even took a photo of bruises, she claims, were from Lucas kicking and punching her. Then one night, it was something Lucas said that had Linda especially worried. He came in and he told me he was going to kill his brother, his mother, and me. And I got on the phone and I called the agency right away. The agency set up a meeting for the following week, but it was too late.
18:07Troy Roberts:Dylan died two days after Linda's frantic call. Do you miss Dylan? Yeah. Yeah? But what do you miss the most about him? I love him. You love him. Now the question is, will a jury believe a child so young could be so violent? Most of the human population will be able to see that a four-year-old child is out of absolutely in every way incapable of being the spawn of Satan. I have to tell the whole story.
19:07Okay, I think we're all ready. I'm going to get downtown.
19:11Troy Roberts:Yep. Charles Forche, a foster father who has cared for more than 90 children, is nervously waiting to go on trial for murder. I'm hoping that the truth comes out and I'm exonerated. The victim, Dylan Farrar, the two-year-old he once promised to protect. The accuser, Dylan's brother Lucas. All right, come on. On the other side of town, Lucas and his mother Amanda are just as anxious. Because he's just four, you know, and he's scared to death. How have you explained to him his role in the upcoming trial? He's going to be Dylan's superhero. He's going to be Spider-Man and help out all the people of the city by being Spider-Man and telling the truth about what he saw.
20:04We're up to see the lizard.
20:06Troy Roberts:Lucas has been meeting with the therapist and prosecutor Sonny Mitchell to help him get ready to take the witness stand. Lucas, do you know the difference between a lie and a truth?
20:22I can't know the lie. I only know the truth. Is he credible? Lucas is credible. In my opinion, Lucas is credible. He spontaneously, within hours of his brother's death, told his mother Charlie heard him. Charlie did it. And a year later is still maintaining exactly what he said then. Okay. And when Charlie put the pillow over his head, Lucas, was Dylan laying on his tummy or his back then? He was laying on his tummy. He was laying on his tummy. His story is consistent. He always identifies Charlie as the one that hurt Dylan. And he put his head over his face. Given what his level of comprehension was and just what a three-year-old knows, if he did see a smothering, it would be very hard for him to explain.
Read the full transcript
21:20Troy Roberts:Psychologist Maggie Bruck, an expert on child testimony from Johns Hopkins University, says it's always a gamble to rely on a witness who's so young. What does it mean to tell the truth and to tell a lie? I don't know. We showed her the videotaped interview Lucas gave investigators the day after Dylan died. What happened to Dylan? Charlie lay around him. He lay down and he put a photo on his leg. And the police took him to the hospital and he was breathing. and, and, and mommy come in. Was this valuable? I think it was something to start to investigate, that this child said Charlie put a pillow over Dylan's face.
22:09Mommy took on Dylan and she was crying. Mommy, don't cry. Something happened. Well, that was a sweet thing. I mean, I think the child saw something. I think that child was confused about what he saw. What happened right after he told Dylan to lay down? He said no. Who said no? Charlie said no. Charlie said no to Dylan. But I also think that they didn't or they couldn't help him to elaborate. What did the pillow look like that he put over his head, his face? He was crying. He was crying? Who was crying? Dylan was crying. He didn't like that pillow over his face, so he was crying.
23:00Troy Roberts:One year and three months after Dylan's death, the trial begins. Mitchell decides to save Lucas' testimony for last. She first presents what she believes is equally compelling evidence against Charles Forche. The cause of death was due to asphyxia, due to suffocation. Then medical examiner Dr. Joy Carter testifies Dylan could not have died of natural causes. He was forcibly suffocated. Could this child's death have been caused in a manner consistent with pushing down on the child's head, causing his face to be pushed into a pillow? Yes. Two police officers say Forche's own words that night made him a suspect.
23:47At that point he explained to me that they had been doing the foster home for about 20 years. And that his wife liked to tend to the younger children. And did he tell you how he felt about that? Yeah, he told me that he was upset with it, kind of tired of it. Miss Mitchell, you may call your next witness, please. Amanda Tinsley DeBerry.
24:07Troy Roberts:Then, Amanda takes the stand and repeats what Lucas told her the night Dylan died. What did Lucas say? Lucas told me Charlie did it. And the stage is set for the jury to hear from Lucas himself. We need to take a short break before the next witness to get set up. Lucas will testify sitting on a couch in a room next to the judge's chambers. The jury will watch via closed circuit TV. At his mother's request, Judge Joan Huffman orders the news cameras turned off. Nobody can film and nobody can record. Everybody understand the rules. Thank you. At first, when the prosecutor questions Lucas, he answers easily.
24:51Troy Roberts:Who hurt Dylan? Charlie. What did Charlie do to hurt Dylan? He pushed on his back and on his stomach and on his face. What did he punch him with? A pillow. After he hit Dylan with the pillow, what did Dylan do? He stopped crying. But when defense attorney Stanley Schneider questions Lucas, the four-year-old can't even remember basic details about living with the Fourchays, like whether or not they had a dog. Lucas' answer to many questions is a simple no or nope. And that's how he answers when Schneider asks Lucas if he had ever placed a pillow on his brother's head. After about 40 minutes of questioning, Lucas seems tired out, and the court has to take a break.
25:37Well, ladies and gentlemen, we try to plan for everything, but, you know, we just can't predict. The witness is napping. That's never happened to me before. I've had a juror throw up during a final argument, but I've never had a witness fall asleep. That child's not competent. Is Lucas Farrar a good witness? No. I wouldn't have put him on the stand. Not because I think he's lying. I don't know that he has enough to tell the jury. That's a value. I thought Lucas did well. Lucas remembered what was important for him to remember.
26:18Troy Roberts:Amanda is just relieved her son's ordeal is over. Who's in heaven? Dylan. Mm-hmm. Do you like being his hero? Mm-hmm. But the defense is about to argue that Lucas is not a hero. that in fact, he's his brother's killer.
26:45Do you have a dark curiosity? Heart Starts Pounding Horrors, Hauntings, and Mysteries is a weekly podcast hosted by me, Kaylin Moore. Each week, I'll take you on a dark journey through terrifying true urban legends, bizarre true crime cases, chilling tales of backwoods horror, and more. So if you're looking to join a passionate community of the darkly curious, check out Heart Starts Pounding on the free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. And remember, stay curious.
27:19Troy Roberts:Amanda still calls Dylan her sunshine baby. This is kind of my Dylan shrine. I feel like, you know, having all his pictures up here, it's him watching over me and Lucas. This is my Spider-Man. Lucas was a hero for Dylan, says his mom, when he testified in court. He might have just been this little bitty boy who was Spider-Man. You know, he was a superhero, just by words, you know, if nothing else. You're certain without a shadow of a doubt that the right person is charged with this crime. I believe my son. I believe my son. But will a jury believe young Lucas and take away a man's freedom? I'm looking at the fact that I have 12 people who I have no idea who they are are going to decide my life.
28:19I don't know whether I could even live if he went to jail, because he's my whole life. Okay. The pressure is incredible. The worry. I've got to figure out ways to do this and everything has to be perfect.
28:37Troy Roberts:Defense attorney Stanley Schneider has devised a risky plan of attack. He will accuse a four-year-old boy of being responsible for his brother's death. We have a very disturbed young man. Schneider believes Lucas, despite his age, is downright dangerous. Give Luke a kiss. Give me a kiss. And we have six people describe Lucas putting pillows over other children's heads and cutting off the air to other children. Do you believe Lucas is responsible for his brother's death? I do not know, truthfully. I do not know what happened in that room after I left it. All right. Do each of you solemnly swear that any testimony that Jim had given this...
29:29Troy Roberts:Schneider launches his defense with Forche's niece... Lucas was always beating up on Dylan. His sister... or pushing him down or taking a toy away from him. And the boys' babysitters. Lucas pushed his brother around a lot. Lucas had a hold of him, just a dead hold on his neck. Their allegations against my son are absolutely insane. Schneider's tactics have infuriated the entire family. This slime ball is trying to blame a murder on a three-year-old child. How low can you go? Schneider is about to use Linda Forche to score another key point of his defense. Go ahead, ma 'am. Yes, I'm at 42-15 in Janet Gate.
30:19Troy Roberts:And it's right on the 911 tape. My husband's got him on the floor trying to do CPR. Okay. What Lucas really saw that night, Schneider claims, was not a vicious murder, but instead vigorous CPR. Is he breathing at this time? No, but a lot of stuff's coming out of his nose and mouth. Okay. Now, when stuff was coming out of his nose and mouth, what did you do? We grabbed a diaper that we used as a burp bib and started wiping the fluid. According to Schneider's theory, when Lucas testified Charlie hurt Dylan with a pillow, Foreshay was, in reality, wiping fluid from Dylan's face with a diaper. Okay, pump his chest rapidly five times.
31:03Okay, one, two, three, four, five. When you're counting, what did Charlie do with his hand? He was pushing during the compressions. Where was Charlie's hand? On the baby's chest. Was that him patting him on the back? Yeah. Don't do that. Oh, don't hit him on the back. And did he ever hit Dylan on the back? Yes, he was patting the back until they told him to stop.
31:24Troy Roberts:When Lucas told jurors, Forche pushed on his brother's back and on his stomach and on his face. Schneider says Lucas was actually describing the frantic efforts to save Dylan. One, two, three, four, five. Nope. Keep going, okay? One, two, three, four, five. Nope. One, two, three, four, five. Nope. One, two, three, four, five. Nope. He's always wearing the testimony of giving his case-no-trial. Now, Charles Forche takes the stand to speak for himself. Was crying children in your house the norm? All the time. Schneider argues that Forche was used to the stresses of parenting and could never have just snapped.
32:12Troy Roberts:Did you ever force his head into a pillow? No, I did not. He was simply trying to soothe Dylan. I put my hand on his back and his buttocks to calm him down. That's not what it says in your written statement, is it, Mr. Forche? Prosecutor Sonny Mitchell bores in. You know, you keep talking about soothing him. In your statement, you said I held him down. You didn't say anything about giving him a soothing back massage, did you? No, ma 'am. After caring for 90 foster children over the years, Mitchell believes that Lucas and Dylan were two children too many for Charles Forshay. Kids can get on your nerves, can't they, Mr.
32:55Forshay? You can get on my nerves.
32:58Troy Roberts:anybody can get on anyone's nerves. She says he was fed up with crying babies and just wanted the noise to stop. Tell us how you told him to be quiet. As a general rule, probably, he says, shut up and go to sleep. And you held him down, according to your words, for about a minute. As a figure of speech, yes, about a minute. Next, Mitchell forces him to relive what happened that night. I'm just asking you if according to your demonstration the child's face is in the pillow. I don't know if Dylan's face was in the pillow or on the bed or not. And that's not my question to you, Mr. Forshaw. My question is in this demonstration is the child's face down.
33:45In this demonstration the doll's head is face down.
33:48Troy Roberts:Mitchell scores another damaging blow with pediatric pathologist Dr. Harry Wilson. Could a three-year-old child have caused his death by suffocation? Not possible. A three-year-old child cannot and would not do that. He says a child that age simply doesn't have the strength. You don't know about how aggressive a specific three-year-old might be. To affect suffocation, to do it for three or more minutes, no, they would not do that.
34:22The truth is Charles Forche murdered my grandson.
34:32It's so scary. I don't think I've ever lived in fear. I knew what fear could be like until now. So are you feeling okay? I'll never be the same that I was. Got it? But I would like to be able to live a normal life again. I'm ready for it to be over.
34:56Troy Roberts:This case will be over soon, one way or another.
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36:21Troy Roberts:defense attorney Stanley Schneider must find the right words entire states what he tells the jury in closing arguments could set Charles for Shay free if he fails for Shay will be condemned as the killer of Dylan Farrar. I need to remind them who Charlie is. A loving, caring, and giving man stands for you charged with murder. Why? Why would Charlie do anything out of the ordinary to a kid? This is a man who for 17 years loved children. The voice of reason, the truth about Charles Porche, about who he is. I'll tell you, there's only one bird. I killed him. To acquit the defendant, you have to believe Lucas killed Dylan.
37:19Troy Roberts:Prosecutor Sonny Mitchell argues Lucas wasn't physically capable of murder. It was Forshay who killed the baby in a fit of rage. By God, he was going to make him go to sleep. And you can bet he grabbed his head, pushed it down and said, I said, shut up and go to sleep. In the final moments of the state's argument, Prosecutor Mitchell asks the jury to imagine the final moments of Dylan's life. Mr. Charlie, I can't breathe. Mr. Charlie, please let me get up. I want to get up. Please let me get up. Please, Mr. Charlie, I promise I'll be good. Please, Mr. Charlie, I promise I'll stop crying. That's what Dylan went through.
38:01But you can write the moral to the story. You can teach the lesson to the story with your verdict. He is guilty of murder. Thank you, Ms. Mitchell. The jury may begin your deliberations. All rise for the jury.
38:15Troy Roberts:We basically went around the room and everybody said what they thought. As the jury begins to weigh the evidence, the Fourchays wait, reliving the past. I lost my life at night. and fearing for the future. You're an experienced defense attorney. What does your gut tell you now that the jury has become deliberations? I don't know. I don't know. I've had so many people tell me it's in the bag. What would satisfy you, Amanda? For him to spend the rest of his life in jail. Nothing less? Nothing less.
38:56in just two hours ladies and gentlemen we have a verdict and the jury the jury decides for Shay's fate bring the jury in please please be seated Mr. Foreman has the jury reached a verdict you may hand it to the bailiff please sir we the jury find the defendant Charles Richard Forshay not guilty, so I'm of a jury. Sit down. Sit down, please.
39:31Troy Roberts:Amanda and her family are too stunned to leave the courtroom. I just felt like I was in the dream. I didn't feel like it was real. As Charles Forshaw walks away a free man. We've got our lights back. I spent a year in prison. I've been in prison for the last year. And finally somebody listened to what was going on. You can kill a two-year-old, get away with it, because you've got 12 ignorant, stupid people on a jury who refuse to listen to evidence. You know, I don't think the baby died of natural causes, but nobody's convinced me of who did it. Jurors David Kelly, Jim Butler, and Don Shaberg sat down with us to explain their verdict.
40:16Were you ready to accept the word of a child over an adult? I was ready to, yes. He would have been credible to me if he could have answered Stanley Snyder's questions. He didn't. Snyder did a very good job of saying what Lucas saw was the CPR action. That was the most persuasive argument for you? To me it was. You used the word flint. I believed very strongly in the defendant's guilt, and I knew that if I wasn't successful in convicting this defendant, that Lucas was going to have to live with the fact that people didn't believe him and that people believed he had killed his brother. Do you believe Lucas Farrar was somehow responsible for his brother's death?
40:56I don't think he did it, and I don't think any of us thought he did it. So if Charles Forche, gentlemen, did not kill Dylan Farrar, who did? That was not our job, and we were not charged with that. That wasn't the question. I'm asking you the question. Our charge is to presume the man is innocent. If they can prove it beyond a reasonable doubt that he did it, then we ought to say he's guilty. And if they had, I would datgum well say he was.
41:23Troy Roberts:So, in the end, the boy who was encouraged to tell the truth is now sheltered from it. Where does he think Charles Forshay is today? He thinks he's in jail. And that's what's best for him. Why? Because he's so terrified. I think if he knew, he would grow up looking over his shoulder, and I don't want him to do that. I'm going to kindergarten one day. What do you want to do when you grow up? I want to be a policeman. You want to be a policeman? Why? Why a policeman? Because... They get the bad guys, right? Uh-huh, and they have gun pockets. Gun pockets. I put my gun in my pocket. Your pocket? Yep.
42:09Troy Roberts:For now, Amanda hopes that Lucas will live a life more typical of a four-year-old and prays he'll always remember that he once had a baby brother. Give him a kiss.
42:27Charlie, is there anything you would like to tell Dylan's family? I'm sorry he died. I didn't do it. I wish I could have saved him. I did everything I could that night to save his life. My message to him is I know he did it. You know what happened to him. Yes, I do. Because my son told me and I believe in my son.
42:58In 2003, Amanda Deberry and her children were awarded a$300 ,000 settlement from Charles and Linda Forshay. When beloved family patriarch Gary Ferris went missing, his family looked everywhere on their property until they came across something horrifying. It's a homicide. Absolutely. The blame game in this family went round and round. This is Blood is Thicker, the Ferris wheel. I don't see how anyone can look at this story and think they were happy. Binge the full series, Blood is Thicker, the Ferris wheel, on the free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts.
44:05Pluto TV, stream now, pay never.
From the publisher
In 2001, Charles Forshee was charged with murdering Dillon Ferrar, a two-year old child in his care. Dillon’s four-year-old brother, Lucas, was a key witness at trial, and testified that he saw Forshee put a pillow on Dillon’s face. But the defense argued Lucas might have been responsible for his brother’s death. "48 Hours" correspondent Troy Roberts reports.
This classic "48 Hours" episode last aired on 6/20/2003. Watch all-new episodes of “48 Hours” on Saturdays and stream on demand on Paramount+.
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