How To Eat with Glucose Goddess Jessie Inchauspé

0:02Jessie Inchao Spee is the woman behind the glucose goddess, an Instagram sensation with over 4 million followers. So why do so many people care about this little molecule called glucose? Well, glucose is a key energy source for our bodies. But when we eat the wrong things or we eat them in the wrong order, our bodies can experience something called a glucose spike. Get too many of these, it'll make you feel tired, it can age your organs, it can put wrinkles on your skin, it can affect your health in all kinds of ways, which is why Jessie teaches people how to manage their glucose levels with simple, easy dietary hacks.

0:43And since I've been following her advice, it's helped my health improve dramatically also. But it's her story and how she got into this that's really so inspiring. This is a bit of optimism. I wanted to have you on our little podcast because my brother-in-law announced at the dinner table that he was going to get a glucose monitor just to try it out. My sister and I were like, all right, we're in. And for 30 days, we did glucose monitoring. And it was absolutely fascinating. And in the course of this, we all became huge fans of yours. How did you start becoming glucose obsessed? It's not a childhood dream.

1:27It's a good question you raised because I don't have diabetes. Nobody in my family has diabetes. Usually when you think glucose or blood sugar, you think diabetes, right? And I actually never thought this would be my career. And this would be what I talk about all day. But it came about through my own personal health problems. So when I was 19, I had a very bad accident. I jumped off a waterfall and broke my back, snapped one of my vertebraes. And so you know what it's like to hurt yourself. I had super intense surgery. I had lots of screws and metal in my spine now. But physically, I was fine pretty quickly just because I was young.

2:05But what happened is that I started developing a lot of mental health issues, depression, anxiety, dissociation, panic attacks. I felt like a stranger in my own body. And this lasted for almost a decade. And during that time, I realized at such a young age that if you don't have your health, you really don't have much. And I wanted to feel better. I wanted to heal my brain and my body. And that's when I started a quest to try to understand myself and understand what I could do. And that first led me to study biochemistry in grad school, then to work in genetics. And nothing helped me feel better until I discovered the world of glucose.

2:44And a little bit like you and your family, I randomly put on a glucose monitor as part of this pilot study. And it completely changed everything because I saw that the days where my glucose levels were steady, my mental health was better. And the days where I was in this roller coaster, my dissociation panic attacks were worse. And that's when the gates opened and I became fascinated. It is absolutely fascinating. My results were astonishing. refreshing. My whole life, I've had crazy energy spikes. I'm great all morning, and I never take a meeting at like four o 'clock in the afternoon if I can help it because I'm useless.

3:23My brain doesn't work. I sit there like a lump on a log. The afternoons are useless for me. And I just thought that's my circadian rhythm. That's just how I am. I'm high in the mornings, I'm low in the afternoons, and I come back in the evenings, right? Then we're doing the glucose monitoring, and I'm getting better at understanding how to manage the spikes. And something remarkable happens, which is my energy is steady all day. I have perfectly steady energy. I can work all day. I don't have the peaks and valleys like I used to have. And it has been game changing just from a productivity for one, but also just feeling good.

3:58Because when you're tired, everything feels compounded. Your emotions are compounded. Fatigue is a killer. And that afternoon fatigue is gone. And usually, actually, if we feel crappy in the afternoon, we don't realize that it could be caused by the way we ate at breakfast, right? It's hard to put two and two together to realize that what you ate six hours ago could be impacting how you feel now. That's not an obvious connection for people to make. And that's the connection that I had to start making. But yeah, as you said, it's when we study our glucose levels, so many things fall into place.

4:31Cravings, hunger hormones, energy, your mitochondria function better. You're actually creating this healthy, sustained energy from within your cells. But when you're on a glucose rollercoaster, spike, drop, spike, drop, spike, drop, lots of things can go wrong from mental health for me to hormones, to skin, to inflammation in the brain, et cetera. So it truly is the foundation of living a life in which you feel good in your body and you can actually go and do the things that you want to be doing. It's also worth noting that I'm not one of those people that like, where's a monitoring device? Where's an Oura Ring?

5:08I mean, I've tried them all and I think they're all fun, but I'm not numbers obsessed where I'm tweaking my life to, I'm not biohacking. Like none of these things have ever really had long-term impact or value. And this was the one where I was so concerned about spiking my glucose, I actually lost four pounds of weight because I wasn't snacking at night anymore. And the way I used to deal with my energy drops was either with coffee or with sugar. I'd have a chocolate bar in the afternoon to get some energy back, which now I'm learning only made life even worse. Well, it wasn't actually giving you energy because sugar, we mistake the feeling of sugar for energy, but actually what we feel is dopamine.

5:46So when you eat something sweet, like a chocolate or a candy bar or a muffin in the afternoon, you know, you feel a sort of rush in your brain. You go like, whoa, you feel awake. That's dopamine. That's the pleasure molecule in your brain. That is not energy. Wow. But we're all confused. Yeah. And it lasts, you know, for several minutes. But then on the inside, your mitochondria, which are actually making energy in your body, they get stressed out by a big influx of sugar, by a big glucose spike. Your mitochondria are meant to receive steady levels of glucose throughout the day in a very balanced way.

6:24But when a big spike comes their way, they go on strike. They're like, too much information, cannot deal, need to take a nap. And as a result, they're not making this ATP, this energy effectively for you, and you feel tired. And that leads to chronic fatigue. If you're tired, you keep eating sugar because you think it's going to be good for you, but you're just making the problem worse. So good. So let's take a step back here. What is glucose? Why do glucose spikes? Why are they unhealthy? What's happening inside our bodies? What actually is it all? Okay. So glucose is your body's favorite source of energy.

6:58Okay. So every single cell in your body is burning glucose for energy. So if you're a listener listening to us, your brain cells right now are burning glucose to make sense of what we're saying. If you make a fist with your hand, the muscles in your hand are going to burn glucose to contract. Every part of your body runs on glucose. And the way that we give this very important molecule to our body is by eating, specifically by eating two types of food. starches so that's bread pasta rice potatoes oats tortillas and sugars so anything that tastes sweet from chocolate to a banana starches and sugars turn to glucose in our body now here's the trick right do you have a plant at home simon do you take care of any plants okay you know that your plant needs some water to live but if you give your plant too much water what happens it dies.

7:55Exactly. The human body is the same. Some glucose, fantastic. Too much glucose, problems start happening. And specifically, when during a meal you give too much glucose to your body, that leads to a glucose spike, which simply means just a lot of glucose arriving at once. And these spikes have consequences. Inflammation, which is one of the biggest drivers of disease in the world. And this can show on your skin as acne, rosacea, psoriasis, but also underpins so many chronic diseases from heart disease to cancer. So first thing is inflammation. Second thing is glycation. Glycation is a fancy word for aging.

8:38The more glucose spikes you have, the faster you age. And this shows on your skin as wrinkles, but also on your insides, your organs slowly deteriorate. And then last big problem that happens when you have a glucose spike is that your body rushes in to try to get that glucose level back down. And the way it does that is by releasing a hormone called insulin. Insulin grabs all the excess glucose and puts it away in your liver, in your muscles, and in your fat cells. And that's one of the ways you gain fat on your body. And over time, too much insulin in your body leads to type 2 diabetes. And that's just three of the things that happen, right?

9:18But depending on your medical history, your body, your genetics, you can get a whole range of symptoms from these spikes. For me, it was depersonalization. For somebody else, it could be infertility, right? Glucose spikes are not good for us. And most of us, estimates put it at about 80 % of the population. 80 % of the population who does not have diabetes are still experiencing these spikes on a daily basis like you. And we suffer the consequences. So managing the glucose spikes is a way of obviously reducing all those things. So now let's get into it. How to manage glucose spikes. So one of the big takeaways I learned from you is the order in which we eat.

9:56And so vegetables first, then protein, then starch. A plus. I'm obsessive now. I'm obsessive. And I noticed the difference immediately. I went out to a pasta restaurant with friends. I happened to be wearing my glucose monitor at the time. I know exactly what it's going to do. It's going to spike it like crazy. So I ordered a bunch of side vegetables and I told the waiter to bring it first. So I sat there and ate a bunch of broccoli first. And then I had a huge pasta meal and I had no spike. It was astonishing. It was amazing to see. That's amazing. And actually, when you think about it, I'm going to explain why this works in a second.

10:32But traditionally in Italy, this is what they do. They have anti-pasti at the beginning of a meal, which is generally grilled vegetables. So we've known this stuff for a long time, but have lost touch. So the food order thing. So we discovered, scientists discovered that if you eat the elements of a meal in a specific order, you could cut the glucose spike by up to 75 % of the same exact meal just by changing the order. And as you said, and honestly, good job remembering that, veggies first, proteins and fats second, and carbs and sugars last. And so why does this work? Because I'm going to test you now.

11:07You ready? Yeah, yeah. Because veggies contain a very good substance called? Fiber. Yes, exactly. So fiber in the veggies is the key here. Good job, Simon. Very excited that I got that right. When you have a fiber at the beginning of your meal, this is what happens. It has time to reach your upper intestine before anything else. And there the fiber deploys itself onto the walls of your upper intestine and creates a sort of protective superhero mesh, right? I like to see fiber as a superwoman there to protect you. once that mesh is in place if you have pasta afterwards pasta contains glucose those glucose molecules from the pasta are not going to be able to go through from your upper intestine to your bloodstream as quickly or as much as they would if that fibrous mesh was not there so you're still getting all the pleasure from the pasta and all the deliciousness but to your body it's landing much more softly your body's not receiving this big spike in the bloodstream rather that protective fiber shield is slowing down the velocity.

12:11And that's why you see a smaller spike when you have the veggie starter. And it is such an easy thing to do. And I don't know if you've noticed it, but it impacts your energy, your cravings for the rest of the day, how you feel. It's just like, it's amazing how quickly glucose levels are able to be modulated by what we do, and then how quickly we feel the benefits. And one of the reasons I lost weight was, So I went out for dinner and I ordered fish with vegetables and I got onion rings because I like onion rings. But I followed my glucose goddess advice and I had my vegetables first. Then I ate my fish and then I only ended up eating two onion rings as opposed to six or seven because I was full.

12:49So I had the joy of the onion rings without the excessive amount of fat from the fried food. And so it didn't affect me at all, which was great from an energy spike to gaining weight. However, Simon, like even if you had had all of the onion rings, right, even if you didn't change how much you ate, but you just simply changed the order, you would still get a big improvement in your glucose levels and your energy. But yes, one of the great side effects of this is that once you get to the carbs, you know, you don't need as many anymore to get the enjoyment and the satiety because you've had the veggies, proteins and fats before.

13:23Why do proteins go second? So the veggie, I understand, produces this protective mesh. What does the protein do? So the protein has an effect on what's called, okay, it's not a very appetizing word. It's called gastric emptying. So it's the speed at which food moves from your stomach to your upper intestine. So protein slows down gastric emptying. So what you're trying to do is you're trying to stack all the stuff that is going to pass through more slowly into your upper intestine. And then at the end, bring in the pasta or the carbs that are going to be slowed down by the fiber and proteins and fats that are there before.

13:56So interesting. Okay. Talk to me about the importance or detriment of water. So I've had people tell me not to drink water before my meal because it dilutes the digestive enzymes, blah, blah, blah. So am I allowed to drink water before? Can I drink water during? Do I have to wait to drink water? How does water play? You have to completely stop drinking water for the rest of your life. That's not me. So there's one small study that I'm going to mentioned about the water thing. It appears that if you refrain from drinking water while you're eating, the glucose spike of the meal is going to be smaller.

14:32So it's better from a glucose standpoint to drink before and after the meal. Why is that? The scientists have a few hypotheses, but it's not totally sure. What I think might be happening is that simply when you're not drinking water as you're eating, you're going to be chewing more and just eating more slowly. So the food is going to arrive more slowly into your bloodstream. But you know, the effect is negligible. So I'm a water drinker. I can't stop drinking water while I'm eating. So this is one of the times where I'm like, not for me, you're going to have a much bigger impact by adding a veggie starter, or going for a walk after your meal versus removing the water.

15:07And you're French, where does wine fit in? Well, my philosophy is that when you're having alcohol, it's what I call a pleasure decision. It's not a health decision. Alcohol is not good for our health. Now we know that. The best amount of alcohol for your health is zero. But if you're having alcohol or if you're having like your favorite cake or whatever, it's your birthday, I don't know, have the alcohol that you like best. Don't try to optimize your alcohol consumption for your health. It's a pleasure decision. It's okay to make some decisions for that purpose. If you really want to know which alcohols are best for your health, Well, wine actually is one of the best ones.

15:47So any color, sparkling or not. And then hard alcohols, tequila, vodka, gin with some soda, water, and lime. The worst, and again, I'm using air quotes here, the worst alcohols for your glucose levels are beer and cocktails. But if you're going to have a drink, like if you love margaritas, have a margarita. See what I mean? Sure, sure. Okay. Now, the big one that really upset me when I started to learn about your work was oatmeal. I'm so sorry. Because oatmeal, I've always been told, was healthy. Well, so oats are a grain, right? And grains are full of starch. So if you absolutely love oats and you want to have them in the morning, there's a few things you can do.

16:27You can add what I call adding clothing to our carbs. So if you had just naked oats by themselves, the glucose would create a glucose spike very quickly. But if you add clothing, so protein, fat, or fiber, you're going to slow down the speed of arrival of those glucose molecules and reduce the spike. So an easy thing in your oat meal could be adding some protein powder, adding a few scoops of nut butter, for example, some seeds. But it raises the question about the order in which we eat. So like, you know, pizza, I should be eating the cheese and then the bread. Well, yes, of course, you could technically.

17:08Same thing goes for a lasagna or a sandwich, right? You could separate out all the different parts of your meal. I could have the lettuce, then the turkey, and then the bread. Yeah, but that's crazy. So don't do that. What you can do in those cases when you have a mixed meal is just add a plate of veggies before you have that mixed dish. So you're going to get the benefits of the fiber without deconstructing your sandwich, right? There are some instances where some hacks are easier to apply than others. We have to be flexible. We have to adapt. So when I eat vegetables, how long does that lining in the upper intestine last?

17:42So, for example, can I eat vegetables at home when I'm heading out for dinner where I know there won't be vegetables, like I'm going to a barbecue or something? Yeah, about 90 minutes. There has been no studies precisely measuring the length. But from what I can gather from how digestion works, it's about 90 minutes. And that's also what I've observed. And I actually have a lot of readers who do that. For example, it reminds me of the story of this wonderful Mexican man, Gustavo, and he was a bit embarrassed that he was doing the hacks. So he would have a big head of broccoli at home before going to the steakhouse with his friends and nobody would know that he had the fiber lining in his intestine.

18:15It's cute. You speak with such passion about something that most people are impassioned about. Where does that come from? What is the passion? The passion is behavior change. I am passionate, obsessed with making behavior change easy for people. Easy, sexy, fun. I don't know why. I just really want to help people take that first step to implementing change in their life. That's really my passion. And that's why I developed this concept of the hacks. And that's why I talk about fiber as a superwoman. And I give names and genders to the molecules because I want to help people take that first step.

18:52So I think I'm just really good at helping people become motivated and see that they can start with easy solutions. Do you see what I mean? And I could apply that to lots of different, lots of different spaces as well. I also appreciate the reality of it. You know, a lot of biohacking and a lot of people who are out there preaching health, it's difficult. It's obsessive. It requires a lot of discipline. And yours requires some discipline, not much, but you're very reasonable, which is if you want to have chocolate cake, have chocolate cake. It's fine because we're managing the spikes. We're not obsessive about them.

19:26And I just appreciate the very sort of French way of approaching this. Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, you know, diets don't work. Diet culture has destroyed women's psychological health for decades. I grew up in France where every single cover of the magazine was like how to lose 15 pounds in two days. But I never talk about weight loss these days because it's not about weight loss. It's about feeling good and thriving and going after what you want to go after in your dreams. But yeah, you asked the why question, which, of course, makes sense. And it's because of my own health journey. and now I became so passionate about helping people make that change.

20:03You know, I'm the one in the friend group who sends the motivational videos to my friends and like forces them, helps them to make change and have realizations and take that step. Like that's just my energy. It's like you can do it. Even one cherry tomato, one baby carrot before your next meal as your first veggie starter is already amazing. Be proud of yourself. Start anywhere. That's what I love. Is there someone you've helped that really or that you've given advice to that stands out? Like someone who like, like if I ask you, like you say you have a passion of helping people change behavior.

20:35Is there someone that stands out as like, this exemplifies what I'm trying to do in the world? For my second book, I recruited 4 ,000 people on Instagram to go through this four week method with the four most important hacks. And three women in that study were able to get pregnant after being told that they were not going to be able to do it naturally by using their Ducos hacks because glucose levels and fertility and sex hormones are so linked. And for me, I was like, wow, like that impact on these women's lives is beyond anything I could have ever imagined or hoped for. So I don't know why that sticks with me.

21:14But then, you know, I have the great honor and privilege to receive messages every day from people who've used my work to reverse diabetes, to help their grandmother who has Parkinson's, to get their energy back, to get their period back, to get their acne to die down on their face so they can go outside without feeling self-conscious. You know, it's like there's a whole community of people using this stuff. So no, not one person stands out. Well, I would say I think I stand out because I was the first person that I helped. And now I feel amazing. Now I can spend a week by myself in an Airbnb across the world for work.

21:49Whereas 10 years ago, I could not spend an hour alone because I was having panic attacks about just being alone. So I would say, yeah, my own journey is the most powerful one. And now just all of my readers, it's just amazing. Tell me an early specific happy childhood memory. Playing in the waves on the beach in the south of France with my dad. I was born in the southwest of France on the Atlantic coast in Biarritz. So we were at the beach and we were in the waves. My dad was holding me and he was teaching me how to do le bouchon, which means like when you go up the wave and down the wave and up the wave and down the wave.

22:27And I don't know, I just remember that being so joyful. I've always been scared of water. And I think for me, it was the first time maybe where I felt safe in that space. And then I broke my back jumping off into the water. You know, water and me have, we have a history. So I think that was my earliest memory of feeling safe in the water. What I love about that story is that's very much how you describe who you are, which is you're the friend who's sending the motivational videos and things to everybody. And I guess the waves, it's the, I'm going to use a big word, the vicissitudes. It's just the ups and downs of life.

23:01If you stand still, you're going to get hit. You're going to think everything's fine until the next big wave comes and you get salt water in the face. And you had someone show you how to manage the ups and downs of the waves. That's very true. And now you in turn are doing that. You are holding us and you are showing us how to manage the ups and downs of life. And you're teaching us these skills. And then we, just like you no longer need your dad, we learn these skills ourselves and you are basically become your father. You're guiding us through the, whether it's professionally through folks like us who are devotees to your work or just your friends through, I bet you're the one they go to when they're having troubles in their relationships.

23:46You're the ones they come to for advice when they want to change career or they're having problems at work or problems with their friends. Like you're the one holding somebody through the ups and downs. Yeah, I love holding space for people, but I don't want it to sound like I have everything figured out. I have, I cry all the time. I have emotional ups and downs. I have a great therapist and great friends who also hold me, right? I'm not this like perfect being, but I do love holding space for people and helping them, especially go through the difficult, the dips, right? Because if you're able to really metabolize the difficult feelings and really get into them, then you're able to come back up.

24:19The worst is when you get stuck at the bottom because you're not able to feel the stuff fully. So you never get to the next stage. So I'm good at helping people really be in their feelings. If you come to me and you're crying, I'm not going to tell you, don't cry. I'm going to be like, yeah, that's fucking sad. and just stay with you until you're done crying. And by the way, the way a why works is the thing that you give to the world is also the thing you need the most. And that's the relationship of a why. That's beautiful. So, you know, I like how you caveat, I don't have it all figured out.

24:48I would imagine you didn't because there's so many hacks now. And, you know, the problem with this stuff is it can be overwhelming and the people who are espousing it that when you're a hammer, every problem is a nail. And, you know, everybody thinks everything is cured by their thing, you know, which of course is nonsense. I'm sort of skeptical when somebody thinks that their thing is the solution to all the world's ills and all your body's problems, which of course is just not true. And I appreciate that your attitude is more moderated, you know, this is... And I will caveat the glucose thing, Simon, because glucose levels are just one window through which to approach better health, right?