The ADHD Woman's Guide To Sex & Intimacy: No more shame, no more guilt!

0:00Ultra running shoes are all about space. The space to go further. To feel better. To do something you never thought possible. And this space starts with Ultra Fit. Unlike traditional running shoes, Ultra Fit gives toes more room to move naturally. So every step is strong, balanced, and comfortable. Whatever you're lacing up for, stay out there. With Ultra. Shop now at ultrarunning.com. That's A-L-T-R-A running dot com. Female ADHD can have huge difficulties and orgasmia is a distraction, not feeling right, that sensory zone. That has to be right for somebody to be able to carry through to orgasm.

0:41And men as well. There are erectile difficulties with performance anxiety. One thing is focus. What about the distraction, just losing their moment? Karen Daugherty is a leading ADHD couples therapist. Who's helped thousands of people with ADHD. She's here to discuss ADHD. And how it affects intimacy in your relationship. It's quite difficult for some people with ADHD to transition from actually what they're doing in order to be able to respond maybe to an initiation to move into an intimate or sexual mode. What would you recommend if somebody is listening or watching and they think, that sounds like my relationship.

1:14We don't perhaps like each other, but we have sex a lot. Is it healthy to maintain a relationship that way? Well, I would say... Can I have just a second of your time? If this podcast has helped you understand your brain or made you feel less alone, Can you do me one favour? Can you hit the follow button? And I'll repay the favour by continuing to book the best and most exclusive conversations on this topic. Please enjoy the episode and always remember, you're not broken, just different, and you have always been enough.

1:45Karen, welcome back. Hello, Alex. Lovely to be back. last time you were on karen you suggested that we cover the topic that we're going to cover today which is adhd and how that crosses over with intimacy and sex and i don't know why i'm quite nervous about this conversation because my parents listen to this podcast i will be reserved i will be very careful i'll choose my words sorry mom sorry yeah my kids too but they're used to me so it's all right. I mean, such a big topic, obviously, huge, sensitive conversation. I suppose the first question, just to set the foundation, how does ADHD impact sexual relationships?

2:30So the biggest question first, as usual, Alex. There are many ways in which ADHD impacts a relationship and impacts a sexual relationship, impacts the intimacy between two people now i can name let's name a few of the traits of adhd okay so we've got emotional dysregulation sensory processing difficulties with sensory processing difficulty with transitioning from one place to another rejection sensitivity dysphoria um uh time blindness over focus distraction body dysphoria um that's just to name a few now of course you're not that one person is not going to have all of them um but they there's a lot in the mix when we're talking about how these how how neurodivergence itself is impacted within the within an intimate and intimate life gosh there's a lot there where do we start which trait should we start on well let's think about let's think about what shows up in the room all right so what shows up in the room often I'm a psychosexual therapist so honestly if I've got a couple in the room I've got sex whether they're having it or not there's intimacy actually should we think about intimacy would that be helpful to start off with actually how I define intimacy and how that impacts the couple and how that actually weaves into the traits of ADHD and, you know, how they mix and match.

4:09Would that be helpful? Sure. What is your definition of intimacy? And I suppose the bigger question is, how is that different to sex? Oh, it's completely different. So intimacy, there are many, many different types of intimacy. Okay, we've got psychological intimacy, we have sensual and sexual intimacy, We have emotional intimacy, energetic intimacy, intellectual intimacy. Humor is a form of intimacy. So you have a panoply of different types of intimacy that couples or people in, well, actually, anybody in a relationship moves between those. They're all facets of a connection. and of course we know that quite a lot of those will be impacted by ADHD traits so it's not that everybody has difficulties but perhaps there are just a few more potholes around where ADHD is concerned.

5:08With ADHD you seem to get incredibly excited in the early stages of a relationship And I suppose at that stage, is it possible for somebody to love bomb somebody? What I mean is, is it possible to be confused with loving someone and just being overwhelmed by all of the stimulation that having that hyper focus on one particular person is giving you? Definitely. So the limerence of that, of those early months, early years, sometimes that intensity is really experienced by ADHD. It's almost as if you've met your twin flame or your soulmate or your missing piece. I mean, it's that intense, the oxytocin, the dopamine, everything's bubbling up there.

5:59And it's intense. and that happens in a lot of relationships most relationships but with adhd that experience it in the in the way that they do then it's um it's easy to think maybe this is the love of your life um my experience around this is yes it goes on for quite a while if that and this is your i think this is your question is how do you know when that sort of first flush or limerence is is over and How do you know whether that is going to transition into something more serious? And that's really the tipping point, isn't it? Whether it's love or not. You talk about love bombing. I mean, that's a classical sort of early doors response to having met your soulmate, to having met the one that's good, that you're missing peace.

6:53It's an early response. But I think that transition is sometimes difficult. But in relationships, I see a lot of people who talk about this, they're couples that talk about this period as being, I mean, it was magical, absolutely magical. And something came in and broke the spell. Not just that they got fed up with each other, because relationships take about two years to either gel or break. Okay, you probably know after a certain age that something is going to stay or not stay after two years. So with the ADHD, it's quite difficult making that transition when a third person or a third thing comes into the relationship.

7:37And that's what breaks the limerence. And then you know whether actually is this love. The other aspect to this, and it was so interesting that you're talking about this, was yesterday, only yesterday, I was talking to a couple and a young woman in her 30s were saying, I don't really know if I'm in love. I don't really know if this is love. How do I know if this is love? And it really got me thinking about how, you know, sometimes female ADHD just has real difficulty identifying, naming what it feels, understanding that what they feel, can they relate that to love? So it's quite complex for some people.

8:17I mean, she's got three children and they're married, but she's not quite sure that she's in love. So it's, you know, it's a it's a mixed bag there isn't it what kind of thing could come in and be that third-party source that breaks that limerence like i think last time you said perhaps a child like a pregnancy but are there are there other other blind spots other things that can really derail that in that limerence that they might not see coming the biggest the biggest one is work isn't the biggest one is career trajectories especially where adhd is concerned because work is such a driver and so work career redundancies anything that happens around work can really distract can really detract from the relationship and once that happens then you know whether there is that well then you then i think when you transition from the from the fantasy into the reality that's when you sort of know whether you you you are in love or not we talk a lot on this podcast about the boom and bust cycle that many people with adhd go on and the classic example is you can get super excited, almost obsessed, hyper-focused with some thing, or in this case, someone, and that can last for some months, and then it can drop off very quickly.

9:35And the pattern of that happening time and time again, how that can affect someone's self-esteem. They can truly start, I guess, to believe that they are incapable of following through or sticking at something. And in the context of relationships, can somebody who experiences this, I suppose, limerence and then drop off time and time again, can they begin to believe that they are unlovable? Yes, sadly, they can. That drop off is quite a negative place. It's a distraction. It's something else that they've experienced. They've moved off to somewhere else. it's also the biggest problem within within relationships even if somebody has decided to stay in a relationship it's the biggest problem isn't it because the other the other half of the relationship feels as if they don't exist sometimes um so yes i think that can add in but you mentioned something there that's very interesting and you're talking about self-esteem and i do believe that self-esteem is something that is developed very late in life for a lot of neurodivergent people.

10:42Karen, you mentioned earlier that there were a list of ADHD traits that could impact people in the bedroom. I think you said a transitional phase and having an issue with that. What did you mean by that? I mean that it's quite difficult for some people with ADHD to transition from actually what they're doing in order to be able to respond maybe to an initiation to move into an intimate or sexual mode that transition can be really tricky and if they're not expecting it you know that it could be a bit of a curveball and no I'm not ready for that I don't like that or maybe they have high sensory sensory high sensory difficulties and they're not quite ready for that they haven't prepared themselves they're not clean or they haven't had hair wash or their teeth aren't cleaned and no, no, no, no.

11:30Or somebody sort of tried to initiate that transition with a touch that has actually hurt or turned them off. Partner has no idea, but that's what happens. So that's what I'm talking about, you know, being able to transition from one phase to another. Does the transition need to be over a longer period of time rather than say, you know, you're sat on the sofa watching a film and one half of the partner makes a move and it's met with a nope not in the mood okay fair enough does the transition need to be over a longer time period so you need to start being quite flirtatious early in the day little touches throughout the day perhaps you know putting on a nice aftershave whatever it is if the transition is over a longer period of time so it feels less jarring is that a counter to that issue that some people have with the transitional period it is definitely one of them you know slow but sure connecting up during the day just that exactly as you describe a slower approach um but the other i mean i advocate actually sort of notice period as you know sort of scheduling sex loads of my couples don't they don't schedule time to have a chat let alone sex so it's not a bad thing for a couple who might need time and time and thought um to get ready for sex to actually may have maybe have an intention and I'm not saying they have to have the intention to have sex but maybe there's something about scheduling just time together intimate time together it doesn't have to end in sex because that of course will agitate the performance anxiety make everybody more more agitated especially if somebody doesn't feel in the mood so doesn't want it so just creating an intimate space is helpful it's helpful and there is there's an intention to create that which may lead into something more.

13:21That's interesting because the advice that I've been told by numerous people over the years is that be spontaneous. And the idea of kind of scheduling intimacy or scheduling sex is quite icky. But I suppose perhaps if you are somebody who likes routine and you don't like surprises, or if spontaneity is going to trigger your issue with transitional periods, then stop being spontaneous start putting something in the daily planner i hate to say it but yes i have a lot of fun with this the spontaneity you can see clients faces change especially men not spontaneous you're going to lose all the spontaneity and then the next question is okay when did you last have sex spontaneous sex well maybe it was a while ago i rest my case wouldn't it be better if there was some sort of, you know, scheduled intimate space, intimate time, and maybe you'd get lucky a bit more often.

14:23Just trying to think of my diary now. I can see the slots filling up. You know, I'm called the whiteboard witch. Okay, have you got it on the whiteboard? Where is it scheduled? Because couples often have to plan. And so where is it? Which part, which day is it on? Yes, I know it sounds horrible, but it works, particularly so as everybody's working so hard, kids in the mix, just the pressure, just the pressure of life. What about sensory processing? You mentioned earlier, can touch be unwanted sometimes? Can it sometimes feel like a cactus? Can that groove be going? You could be getting in the mood and then you kiss them on the neck or something happens and it's like an instant jar because Is there some sensory processes happening simultaneously?

15:11Totally. It is a problem. And so if I'm working psychosexually with couples, we're just having a chat about their intimate life. You know, the sensory processing in ND is very heightened. The more that the couples understand this, the easier it gets. You know, a tickle, just a stroke. It's ticklish. No, I don't like that. The kiss on the neck. no no I don't like being kids people can't kiss it's too intense but it's all about communicating that it's all about sitting down with a glass of wine and saying right this is what I don't like because if that doesn't happen people it gets very confusing for people they feel rejected oh my goodness I'm doing it wrong and that's not just the ADHD part of the couple that's the other person as well who starts to feel I don't know what to do I don't know how to do this all my all my tricks are not working what what next and so they become shy and disconnected and withdrawn and we know that the adhd person needs a particular frame of mind to actually want sex in the norm when we're talking about couples i'm not talking about you know outside of the couple but within the couple so it it really needs to be managed is it about having an awareness of what your sensory sensitivities are like are there any blind spots like a particular lighting or a scent or a type of fabric on the bed that all of that all of that is a big part of it so i go back to my scheduling intimate time do we think about what sheets are on the bed do we think about how we're dressed do we think about is there is that i can't stand that candle let's not put that on do I like that lighting no I don't like that lighting it's an opportunity it's an opportunity for people to play and for people to get to know each other but I want to add something in here because I think it's really important and it's it's it we all have to take responsibility for knowing ourselves so we have to know our own bodies we have to understand what we like what we don't like we'd have to without shame we need to know our own bodies so that we can share them with somebody else and I think this is particularly relevant with neurodivergence and all the quirks and and difficulties and sensory perceptions that can be very confusing not only for that person but for their partner we're a community that feel different and have felt misunderstood for for many many years and I've spoken to a lot of women and men in the community who have actually in the bedroom struggled to reach an orgasm and I wonder if what we're talking about plays a part in that can you be such an overthinker such a person who perhaps has sensory stimulation or sensory sensitivities but doesn't realize and that's actually interfering in your ability to focus and be in the zone enough to to reach that o definitely definitely I mean a female ADHD can have huge difficulties and orgasmia is really quite a common presentation you know the distraction that not feeling right all of the things we've just talked about in that that sort of sensory zone that has to be right for somebody to be able to to carry through to see through to orgasm and men as well i mean don't like to think about this too much but there there are erectile difficulties with performance anxiety erectile difficulties with distraction that just lose you know one thing is focus what about the distraction just losing the moment off somewhere and it's not working so all of those things play a big part which is why one of the first exercises I will do as a sex therapist is to get people thinking about where they come from that's obviously part of it their early messaging around sex and if there was shame or whether it was able to be talked about in their family.

19:14But the next thing is actually, what about you? How well do you know your body? And if you know your body well, then let's sit down with all three of us and let's see how you both can exchange that information. And it's fascinating because somehow, because I've demystified it and normalized it, people can be really honest and it's safe. And it's a great exercise to do surely it can lead to impotence and perhaps in women it's like a complete lack of arousal yes is it just about being totally honest and communicating with your partner over a period of time and slowly becoming comfortable enough to to deal with the sensory sensitivities that maybe are causing you emotional blockages for you to reach that state of arousal yeah definitely the blockages it is all about communication but it's also about psychoeducation isn't it?

20:07Knowing, okay, I'm emotionally dysregulated. I'm out of sync now. This might not work for me. My executive function's all over the place. And now I'm thinking about the shopping list. What's happening? The body dysphoria, huge in neurodivergent folk, actually. There's a real difficulty in accepting bodies because perhaps they are basically distasteful to them, you know, squidgy fat, funny toes, just not liking bodies very much. And then interjecting that into their own, oh no, I can't show my body. How difficult is that to, you know, make love or have fun with somebody who actually is not comfortable in their own body at all?

20:49It seems to be a bit of a contradiction because you have to spend enough time and perhaps years or months with somebody to feel comfortable enough to have these conversations for you to address the blockages that are stopping you from reaching that state of arousal. But many, some people with ADHD, heightened impulsivity, perhaps are somebody who might go out and meet somebody and perhaps get intimate quite quickly before they have had a chance to feel comfortable enough to deal with those conversations. And therefore, they might not perform in the bedroom. They might not get an erection or they might not get aroused and can that lead to like a feeling of I must be broken like what is wrong with me yes I think that's I think it's very confusing for people who can work very well outside of their relationships but can't work in their relationships but that's the nature of it isn't it you know spontaneous sex visual particularly for men visual attraction risk impulsivity yes and women too actually i don't know why i'm calling it a male thing it's men and women they can both do exactly the same they can go out on the razz and that's great um it's when they bring it into the bedroom and it's a it's it's it's a far more emotionally complex relationship and that's where the difficulties come in that's where the that's where the the perceived shame or the difficulty in being present come in because you know casual sex is casual sex it doesn't really require an awful lot of being totally present or necessarily consideration for the other performance can take over and that's that's you know it's done and dusted but it's that it's when you it's when you move into the couple relationship when you move into something that's a bit more that's that's not as transitory actually and needs it needs more thought my sincerest apologies for interrupting your hyper focus but a quick word from our sponsor Like many in the new year, we want to turn over a new leaf, looking to be more productive, more organized, and never late.

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23:34Give it a go and use the link in my bio for 30 % off. Just a note though, this code is only applicable on the web browser, not the smartphone. Back to the episode. Where does RSD come into the conversation? because obviously intimacy is an extremely vulnerable thing. You're opening yourself up to somebody that you might know very well or you might not know well at all. And I suppose how that is met, what happens in the immediate aftermath, if you're not flooded with praise or affection, anyone would suffer with that. Like, did I perform badly? What's wrong with me? But if you have RSD and you're not met with an overtly positive response after sex, how devastating can that be?

24:23Well, I think you've got two categories of that. You know, the spontaneous, impulsive, performance-orientated sex. I don't think that's as... The RSD is not necessarily as pronounced in that type of sex because it's not complicated. it the rsd within a within a more serious connection is it's rife you know one one one small criticism one rejection perhaps god forbid that you know you're not in the mood all of that stuff can really can really hit in and uh leave people feeling as if they're not good enough to have the sex and if they were that how do they do it it's a big part of um the reciprocation the the sort of back and flow, the flow of sex.

25:08And that RSD, if it gets triggered, it's gone. And everyone's left thinking, now what? You mean if the RSD is triggered mid-sex? Yeah. What could happen to trigger it mid-sex? Oh, lots of things. Somebody could just, somebody might say, no, I don't particularly want that. And it's gone, isn't it? And they may not have any idea, and then no intention to criticize. no intention to be negative just perhaps on the change of position or something and that would just wow that the rsd is triggered and then it's over it's practically over and then the shame of that and the discomfort of that for both people is really you know it's it's profound that can have a big impact on relationships i often see couples that come in and they they've literally stopped having sex adhd has been in the mix not necessarily that they don't know about it now all right but they haven't known about it for a long time and those those sort of those those micro those micro hits if you like to their intimacy have accumulated and accumulated and accumulated and they've they've sort of given up on sex they've given up on trying to create to connect with each other i had a a couple that was it did exactly that and they were living abroad they hadn't had sex for years and um came into the to the room and talked about this and they both yearned for sex but they didn't know really how what had gone wrong had no idea he'd come back to the uk and he was being diagnosed he got diagnosed and they were really wanting to kick start their relationship now two neurodivergent pieces to this okay one adhd and the other one slightly as um so you've got to be very aware of how those two conditions uh coalesce um and it was really difficult at first because it'd been so long since they'd done it that actually there was the fear the anxiety of actually trying to do to have sex was too much and there we come into the process of the the sensate focus program that i use a slow gradual approach to reintroducing sex and the the the sort of spark came back over the months it was took a long time six nine months but actually the spark came back and all of the misunderstandings that occurred while there were no diagnosis were worked through and it made a difference oh that's what it is i am good enough it's not that it's oh it's the adhd it's that knowing and being able to contextualize what's happened and what you can do going forward to avoid that same sort of hurt, rejection, criticism and withdrawal.

27:52Can the RSD or the fear of being triggered be so intense that you actually end up pushing love away? You detect, you sense, you perceive a threat is on the horizon and rather than wait for it to attack and for you to feel that visceral, instant, horrible pain that RSD causes. Is it safer to sometimes break the relationship up yourself? Almost you take control, put yourself in the driver's seat and get out of it before RSD can get you? I think that happens in relationships. I think that the RSD is so acute that if it is triggered over and over again, then there is a definite withdrawal. I'm going to withdraw from this.

28:39I'm going to get out of this before this hurts anymore. And I think a lot of relationships have felt fallen foul of that when they don't understand the process. They might have ended early or they've ended acrimoniously. Karen, how many ADHD female clients do you think you've seen in your therapy room over the years? Well, probably thousands. I mean, it's been a very long time and I'm not saying that I would have recognized it as clearly as I do now, even though it was a woman that got me first thinking about ADHD full stop. So yes, many, many, many, many. And out of those many, have you noticed a pattern in the sex drive that they purport to talk about?

29:23Any patterns amongst your clients? So I think they fall into two camps. There's either people who really like sex and actually the creativity, spontaneity, that's all part of their gift and they just can carry on and do it and then there's the others that actually find it very difficult all of the all that we've talked about all that we've spoken about with the you know very very difficult sensory experiences that go on that the distraction the amygasmia um difficulty maybe even vaginismus sometimes there's lots of lots of pitfalls actually for female adhd and sex um especially when especially if i'm diagnosed vaginismus i think i know what that is but describe that to me vaginismus is where the um vaginal walls are frozen they've they've it's it's a mind it's a it's a brain thing the the rejection of any sort of um intercourse is being is is the the walls of china have just closed up they won't they won't let in if you like and that is that's done in response to trauma or fear or anxiety or pain or fear of pain and it's a it's a psychological phenomenon that actually yes vaginismus that's very difficult to um to undo in many in many in many women um i'm not saying that it's particularly an adhd thing but i have seen adhd women with vaginismus is it i mean in terms of because i i've i know it i've heard it mentioned lots and i wonder we know being neurodivergent in itself is very traumatic um the 20 000 horrible comments that we experienced i know that's unrelated but what past events in somebody's life could lead to vaginismus trauma well and i say trauma what past events there could be it's a it's a very odd it's a very odd question because actually we never know what triggers somebody into a space where they've psychologically closed down we don't really know um obvious there's the obvious ones of some sort of abuse or perceived abuse coercive coercive behavior um but it could actually be something like high sensory perceptions being outraged and actually i can't do that anymore and the whole brain body mix just freezing just closing down i can't go there i can't do it can that compound in somebody who perhaps already thinks that they are broken or there's something wrong with them and they have this on top of that yes yes very much so so it's a combination of it all together definitely what about their partner because their partner may think it's their job to to male or female to to find arousal in their partner and there's this block that could they blame themselves for the lack of arousal yes they can blame well not even the lack of arousal they could even blame themselves for was i the reason that actually caused this terrible reaction in somebody um but there there's there is a process for vaginismus um there is there's treatment for vaginismus there is help for it up so yeah but i think i think people should seek the help i really do think they should have you seen couples come to you that perhaps there's something toxic going on in the relationship they're not good for each other however there is this glue that's holding them together and that glue is sex yes i see it i've seen it i've seen it quite a lot actually it's an interesting question this one because i i think the relationships there are there are many relationships that that sex is a glue and it is a way of of getting through the relentless years if they can touch base and have sex then maybe they can you know rally together to get through those years of kids and jobs and redundancies and house moves and all of that.

33:16But it's a very interesting piece, isn't it, when people are using it as a glue and actually the relationship is really bad. And I, yes, I've recently had a case where actually they carried on having sex even though the relationship was extremely toxic. Now, interestingly, in response to the relationship being extremely toxic, the more ADHD part of the couple became quite desperate to make sure that the relationship was okay and became very very very hypersexual if you like and wanted to have sex a lot and that was more to that was more to soothe rather than to actually have sex and the partner withdrew slowly slowly slowly even though it had been okay to keep the sex together when they were taking the relationship over as the relationship got worse as the need to touch base became more intense so she just actually withdrew withdrew withdrew and she got to the point where that she could not have sex at all at all with that person it was quite sad can the relationship be incredibly contradictory if sex is the only thing that's holding you together because obviously sex is a very intimate act however if the if the relationship is weak and toxic and not good outside of the bedroom can the optics of that be so far away from the togetherness that sex creates can you be completely together in the bedroom and yet so so distant outside of it i think you can and interestingly i think with neurodivergence that's that's not such a difficult call because being present and actually physically having sex can be split off from the outside outside of the bedroom it can it's it's it you know we have a we have a tendency there's a tendency to be able to focus in on something on the present and the past well that was yesterday and maybe that's tomorrow but actually we're here and now okay we can do that so i think i think it can happen quite easily without with our neurodivergent uh folk yeah what would you recommend if somebody is listening or watching and they think that sounds like my relationship.

35:30Actually, we don't get on or we don't perhaps like each other, but we have sex a lot and we love the chemicals and we love the feeling afterwards. But is it healthy to maintain a relationship that way? Is it masking some terminal problems? Well, I would say the case that I've just described to you, I would say that that would happen if it was so bad. If the relationship was really bad, I would say that one or the other would have to withdraw. They wouldn't be able to tolerate the sex. It would then, the outside would permeate the bubble of sex. So that's, I think, how that would play out in the end.

36:04But, you know, it's not a bad thing if it's sex that keeps people together through the really hard years. It's okay. You know, the relationship can be okay. The sex can be good enough. That's not a bad recipe for those middle years, the relentless years that, you know, life can take its toll. And if people can still connect and it makes their life, it makes the couple work a little bit better, the, you know, the wheels work a little bit better, then I don't think it's a bad thing. I think it's, I think it's possibly a good thing. And don't forget, there's always that possibility of a complete reset later on down the way when the kids are older.

36:39And that can be a complete opportunity for something completely new. And ADHD is great at that. how do you keep sex interesting and exciting karen as as perhaps you age together and kids come into the mix that's what i'm saying you have to those those relentless years they have to be good enough so you have to you have to make sure it there has to be intention somehow communication and intention the two things that that maintain intimacy communication and intention communication and intention and those two things get lost i mean i can't tell you how many times i say this to a couple. You're doing everything.

37:15You're working really hard. You're making beautiful homes. You're looking after your kids. All the kids want is to see you two happy and you two don't even see each other because of the drive to work, the drive to get on, the drive to keep everything perfect sometimes, especially with ADHD. And the priority of the couple just drops off the top shelf. Can you describe sexual OCD to me? Well, sexual OCD is a subdivision of OCD and it's where there are really pernicious thoughts that come into mind, sexual activities, um sexual positions people inappropriate sex and it's sort of it sort of grows and the the the point is that it's at odds with one's values so it sets up this awful dissonance and then then you have then you have the anxiety created by all of that and compulsive behaviors to try and quell the anxiety um and it can be quite prevalent in neurodiversity you know it feeds straight into that rumination, that constant overthinking, that constant revisiting, catastrophizing, it feeds right in there.

38:31So I think, yes, it is something that we have to be aware of, especially if we're working in a couple and making sure that there's enough communication around that between the two partners. Some of the thoughts, some of the obsessive thoughts you mentioned sexual positions or things that you that might be distant from what you know to be right yes can those perhaps be fantasies that you don't know about uh yeah they can be fantasies but they still trigger the same shame they still trigger the same anxiety they still trigger you know that that sort of fear of oneself and that has uh dramatic effects on um ADHD or AS with that potential to overthink all the time.

39:21And the catastrophizing, the negativity, so it's all rolled up into a ball that just actually, it's a shackle, isn't it? You're tied up in it. And it's very difficult for people who are in that mindset to get out of it, to get any peace. And the obsessive thoughts, positions, does that ever cross over into reality? so i'm going to separate i'm going to separate ocd and what we're talking about with all sorts of sexual practices and i think that the neurodivergent community are really good at alternative sexual practices it can cross over really easily and with consent and creativity i think it brings a whole new whole new flavor to people to to sex we mentioned before karen that some people struggle with transitional periods and i suppose the ultimate transition is perhaps a relationship ending and then you meeting somebody new and deciding to get intimate with somebody new but that transition can that present unique challenges for somebody who perhaps is all dhd oh very much so very much so um on the one hand the adhd could be really excited about that and stimulated by the change and the difference and the the risk and the impulsivity but the as might be slightly more cautious, slightly more used to routine and set timings and set positions, set smells, set, you know, they may be much more used to it.

40:46So it might be more of a challenge there to get out and sort of find new people and actually take that leap of being intimate with them. But again, you know, I do, I do maintain that if you can talk about this stuff, if you can own the neurodivergence. If you can say, well, I might be a bit rusty at this, or I might not be quite on the page here. I think it really helps. And people really understand it now. I mean, you know, working with youngsters, they're wearing their neurodivergence as a badge, you know that. They're really happy with it. Yeah, I'm neurodivergent. I'm going to work for Google.

41:19Good on you. So, it's getting a bit of that actually into the frame so that people can feel more confident going out there and talking about their sort of proclivities likes dislikes we're all entitled to them and but it's having the confidence to be able to chat about them before they scupper you really and then you end up feeling oh i can't do it there's something wrong with me so i do urge that early communication is really helpful speaking of communication karen and confidence i asked my community what questions they wanted me to ask you on the topic of intimacy and sex. And I think they were very confident when they were submitting their questions, because I've got three of the most in-demand ones to ask you now.

42:02Okay. I'm going to reach over and grab the washing machine of Rose, which is where the audience questions live. I remember that. Do you remember why it's a washing machine? It's you, because you leave your washing in the washing machine and it gets wet. I do remember that. It's the weekly reminder for the listeners to check their machines. Get down there and get the washing out of them. The sponsor of the show, the Timo app, does remind me, and I am getting better, but still a work in progress, like many of us. But this week, Karen, the audience on the very specific topic of intimacy and sex have asked, I have ADHD.

42:39How do I know if I'm a sex addict or if I just love having sex? Okay, sex addict. What a question. So what is addiction? Yes, there is a tendency, we haven't talked about porn or the place of porn in terms of it being easy, much more easy to use than getting involved in all the mess and pain of sex. We know that it can bring with all the thinking and what's needed. So we haven't talked about it. But addiction, what is addiction? Perhaps you like sex because it is feeding your dopamine levels because it is providing stimulation, because it is giving you that heady mix. And if that's the case, why don't you recognize it as that?

43:27That you're seeking it as stimulation, not part of a relationship. So there's the difference. You know, sex in a relationship, okay, but maybe if all you're doing is going out and wanting to have sex, then perhaps there's more to it. Perhaps you need to start thinking about how your ADHD is impacting your impulsivity and and you're seeking out of maybe a lot of sex. There's no judgment, but perhaps it's worth working out why you like sex, how you like sex, and do you need that much sex, or can it be translated into a relationship where maybe you might feel calmer and not need so much stimulation?

44:07Surely that can cause problems, perhaps, in relationships if you are at a rocky area. And I suppose, I mean, the availability of porn, surely if you are somebody who might be susceptible to sex addiction that seems like the low-hanging fruit which came first did the porn come first or did the sex addiction come first which came first but i suppose porn has made the viewing of sex so accessible now there's no barriers to entry so if somebody is susceptible to seeking that stimulation and they're at a rocky patch in their relationship can that cause problems do you do you perceive that viewing of porn is being unfaithful to your partner it's yeah it's it's i have it a lot i have this in the room a lot um people come in and say he's absolutely addicted he's a porn addict he's a sex addict um and it's it's affecting our our relationship so when that happens all right you sort of i i i I have to do a sort of litmus test.