The Lonely Side Of AuDHD Nobody Talks About

0:00Ultra running shoes are all about space. The space to go further. To feel better. To do something you never thought possible. And this space starts with Ultra Fit. Unlike traditional running shoes, Ultra Fit gives toes more room to move naturally. So every step is strong, balanced, and comfortable. Whatever you're lacing up for, stay out there. With Ultra. Shop now at ultrarunning.com. That's A-L-T-R-A running dot com. Many ADHD women said the autism assessment is really traumatizing. It brings up so many questions about how you are socially and how you communicate. It is very regulating for the nervous system to be in connection with someone, but it's when it doesn't work out, it can be really, really tough.

0:45Dr. Samantha Hugh is a specialized female ADHD and autism expert with a PhD in medical sciences. She's here to spread awareness of ADHD and autism and help you process a diagnosis. autistic adhd years have encountered adverse childhood experiences so they never really had that role model of someone who was there for them who can validate their experience and when you are born with this increased intensity you learn quite quickly not everyone can host the

1:14Dr. Samantha Hiew:space for that when you go through that process of unmasking can the traits of your autism momentarily get worse well speaking as somebody who has can i have just a second of your time If this podcast has helped you understand your brain or made you feel less alone, can you do me one favour? Can you hit the follow button? And I'll repay the favour by continuing to book the best and most exclusive conversations on this topic. Please enjoy the episode and always remember, you're not broken, just different and you have always been enough.

1:46Dr. Samantha Hiew:Samantha, welcome back. Thank you so much for having me again. So great to see you. We're going to dive into ADHD. What age do you think somebody might, having perhaps had, say, an ADHD diagnosis, what age would they then suspect or seek an autism diagnosis? Yeah, so, I mean, these days we get, you know, children as young as, you know, five years old. But for most of us, late diagnosed adults, I find it tends to happen in a time when people are either encountering, you know, anything online that makes them think, oh, that sounds like me. but for those of us who are going through perhaps transitions in our lives when we feel like I'm finding it really hard to cope or something isn't going well in their lives you know I've once mentored somebody who said that they they found it really hard to keep relationships and that really made them want to pursue a diagnosis maybe get support and then they think that then you know I can understand myself better and I can you know be in this relationship but then most women tend to come to an ADHD diagnosis because of hormonal changes that happen or, you know, a history of premenstrual dysphoric disorder, PMZD.

3:02And for me, I came to an ADHD diagnosis first at the age of 40 after the birth of my second child. And at the time, I was going through really, you know, big dip in my sex hormones that I didn't know, obviously, you know, how it then impacts on my ability to function as a person you know whether to think or manage you know my anxiety was through the roof and that led me to then look for some answers.

3:31Dr. Samantha Hiew:I imagine it's a huge emotional roller coaster going through an assessment of say autism after for many many years you sort of identified or got that label of ADHD and then at a particular age you find out that there's more to it there's more going on. Do you notice in people that you've spoken to, is there a particular emotion that crops up when they finally discover that there's more going on? That sadness, you know, about the years that people thought that they have lost because of not knowing who they are or constantly trying to work out which one's me now, because I seem to have the ability to have a stable life some of the time and then something happens and then I completely unravel and they look back at relationships that didn't work out, you know, and wish that they had known who they are so that they could advocate for themselves.

4:23But then there also comes that trying to explain yourself to everyone around you. You're constantly trying to justify your behavior now that you know, and then you're using what you hear other people talk about in terms of, you know, ADHD trait or autistic traits, you know, to bring back into your home, your workplace and say, this is me, can you please understand you know there is that real frustration in being misunderstood

4:48Dr. Samantha Hiew:can that go up a level to anger or resentment can you get so annoyed at having been missed and you know had I known earlier I wouldn't have got into that relationship I wouldn't have married that person I wouldn't have started that job I wouldn't have started that business if I had just known earlier do you see that that sense of anger after a late ADHD diagnosis Yeah, definitely. Although this anger can often be directed to people who don't understand us, rather than directed internally. There is that sense of like waving your fist up into the air and thinking, why did this happen? And then you then channel that anger towards wishing and wanting people around you to understand.

5:29Dr. Samantha Hiew:Can there be a real crisis of identity when you get a ADHD diagnosis? Because you could have, like many people in the community, I think we're expert maskers. We're phenomenal at playing this character called Normal. Perhaps you've already had an ADHD diagnosis and you've taken the steps to sort of unmask. But then there's also this autistic side that's come out. And then when you find out about that, can there be like a crisis of identity where you're not really still sure who you really are? It's like a layer, you know, like an onion. Because when you take away one layer, then, you know, underneath that's another layer.

6:03And then you really need to go back to then who are you and how was your way of being constructed or your personality developed throughout your life? We talked about what is innately neurodivergent, going out into the world as an autistic ADHD and knowing that you are different. We mask to, you know, fit in. But then over time, we find that there are also people who don't not just their mask, but they have created an entirely different persona that is so far removed from who they authentically are that then later in life when they find out that they are, you know, autistic, ADHD, it's like a really huge life, you know, life quake.

6:50because you then start to wonder, you know, if I'm going to turn inward and I'm going to really work at trying to understand who I am, you know, deconstruct all the maths and all the coping strategies. Then you find that if you don't have a stable self, right, then this identity starts to unravel because of that lack of anchor from the beginning.

7:13Dr. Samantha Hiew:It's quite scary, like how you can unknowingly live for so many years as playing a version of yourself that's not who you really are. But I suppose it's no surprise when ADHD kids, autistic kids, the amount of times the world tells them that who they are is almost defective and they need to hide who they are. So it's no surprise that you go through life putting on this character. But I suppose when you get to a particular age, having lived for so many years not knowing that you're playing this character, And then how do you process that fact? Because you're so used to waking up every day and showing the world a particular side of you.

7:56Dr. Samantha Hiew:Then suddenly discovering that there's such a disconnect between that version that you've been presenting for so many years and the version of you that's been hidden away because of shame. How do you go about closing that gap? And is that impossible or really hard to do after so many years? I don't think everyone wants to get there if that is what they're dealing with. If you have an inkling that you're not being yourself and your real self is not welcomed or accepted, then you're more likely to be more of that false self. And then it comes back to the anger piece that you're talking about. People may want to protect that so that they never have to look under the surface.

8:43But then they ended up then projecting that anger to the people near them, their nearest and dearest, people who could see who they are behind closed doors in order to protect the need to do that work. But then if and when this person comes to the point, what they call dark night of the soul, or a point in their life where nothing seems to work anymore, this full self just doesn't seem to work anymore for them, because they're unhappy then they have to contend with that under layer and this is when everything collapses because when we get to that point of discovery you know which actually I've been you know true myself and I've you know been in relationships with people who have come to that point where this is midlife.

9:42Are you going to spend the rest of your life being this person that you have created that isn't real? And when relationships start to fall away, people do not want to be with someone who's inauthentic anymore, then they have no choice but to confront it. And I think we are there right now in terms of how people choose to have relationships. we don't want inauthentic relationships we want to build authentic relationships conscious you know based on what we're both you know doing and healing and bringing to the table so there comes a point where you do have to confront it and that's really hard work and deep work do you see

10:25Dr. Samantha Hiew:when somebody does that deep work you were describing they do put in the effort to get a better understanding of who they really are do they then sometimes look around at people close to them friendships perhaps and realize that those friendships no longer serve them yeah it happens a lot to people who they start to understand more about themselves you know they excavate and do more research and listen to podcasts and they start to realize that some of the relationships that were formed before they understood who they truly are, when the relationships that were formed based on the mask, that tends to be harder to maintain.

11:09A good example is, say, maybe you have friendship because of the circumstances that you all went out to the pub together. But then when you realize, oh, I'm ADHD, I don't want to drink anymore, and then I can't hang out so much with those people because it's called a temptation. Then it doesn't align with this journey. Then you almost go into this spiritual excavation. And I say spiritual, not in the sense of like, you know, like we're going to spiritual healing groups, but it's more that questioning of who you are. And people that I have created groups for with my cohort of women who I'm supporting, they have said that they go through periods of existential questioning.

11:56And yeah, that's when they start to be more discerning and some relationships end and then some begin.

12:02Dr. Samantha Hiew:When you go through that process of unmasking, becoming more aware of what you've just been diagnosed with, can there be a certain amount of regression that happens? Can the traits of your autism or perhaps the traits of your ADHD actually momentarily get worse? Yeah, I mean, when you tell somebody about this label or they become more aware of who they are, then they fixate on that. That then inadvertently increases the anxiety of who you are and then what are you doing? And then you start to become more aware of what you're doing. And then maybe you may be more autistic or more ADHD in some instances.

12:43I definitely, like I heard on Instagram the other day that someone said that after their autism diagnosis, they become more autistic where like say previously you know if they were cleaning up washing up after dinner they would look at you know the pile of food that's collected near the sink and in the drainer they would just you know empty it without thinking but now they look at it and they're like oh it's squishy you know it's texture like oh I hate it you know and you become more aware because you are focusing on it

13:14Dr. Samantha Hiew:you're making me go funny just thinking about that that's disgusting it's like yeah I mean, I feel like, as I said earlier, people with ADHD and autism, we're such good maskers. You know, we speak about that on the podcast a lot. But do you think we can be so good that the traits of ADHD just go unnoticed? It's hard for it to go unnoticed because you will notice it, but maybe you won't necessarily think of it as ADHD or autistic traits. For me, you know, definitely after I was diagnosed with ADHD and then figuring out I was autistic and starting medication and the autistic traits became more pronounced.

13:55And I was on a dose that was probably too high for me because I would develop tics, you know, where I would speak really quickly and then blink a lot. And I would be tapping, you know, my fingers. And that changed a little bit of my behavior. and then that used to invite comments from other people, but you weren't like that before.

14:15Dr. Samantha Hiew:You must have spoken to quite a few people now who have the joint diagnosis and who are all ADHD. Do you have any stories from those encounters of somebody who perhaps has had quite the revelation, quite the shock, had a diagnosis of all ADHD later in life and then almost been like, oh my gosh, my whole life has been a character? Yeah, for sure. probably including myself you know but yeah yeah that that over functioning um over responsible for everyone being everyone's strangely prefrontal cortex i i joke about it with my daughter you know do you know how many people i've got to be frontal lobes for these two children who are near divergent which are obviously very forgivable because they're very young still but then even my ex partner i used to you know remind him every time remember to do this remember to do that But when I hit perimenopause, I just couldn't do it anymore.

15:13And so much, I just, you know, leave it to him. And he started to struggle. He couldn't, you know, really like manage the household and everything whilst I was working. And yeah, then I just decided not to do it anymore because biologically, I just couldn't, you know, be everyone's everything. but then it came to a point where I'm just doing the excavation trying to dig below the surface of really what makes me and trying to really shed the layers that didn't really serve me anymore and with that came a lot of dismantling whether it was relationships that were formed because I needed that safety and then learning to come out and really own where I am in terms of not needing someone for safety because needing to do that in the past, if you were entering a relationship because you want to feel safe, then you're always outsourcing that safety to other people.

16:27and for me I realized that no one can do that for you and then I learned to really anchor in myself and really regulate when something happens or you know any moments of dysregulation where relationships don't work out and it leads me to question you know who I am again and and I do find that anchoring back in who you are is the way forward.

16:56Dr. Samantha Hiew:How do you go about, or how did you go about that process of excavation on that journey of self-discovery towards finding out who you really are underneath after getting a diagnosis of autism and ADHD? Like, how did you go about that excavation process? well very naturally because I was a scientist and I learned to make sense of the world through biology and then I excavated so deep into what ADHD means and then now ADHD but then I realized there's only so far that science can take you the rest of it is really how you form relationships what are the relationships you have with yourself and and And it's in really dealing with that person who is very young, you know, they call it, psychology call it the inner child.

17:52And it's so trying to recognize it's not just the child at play, it's the protector of the child that comes out in situations that, you know, trigger me, whether it's RSD or, you know, work, my work being questioned, or relationships not working out. it does make me question why is there a need for the protector to be so strong. And when I start to look at the protector, that's when everything just dissolved. And I think this journey has been as much about understanding neurodivergence as well as developing into a woman, you know, from a girl. And so many autistic ADHDers have encountered, whether it's emotional neglect or more overt abuse, adverse childhood experiences in their early lives.

18:54So they never really had that role model of someone who was there for them, who can validate their experience. And because we are known to have quite strong emotional intensity, and obviously that begins in childhood. And when you are born with this increased intensity, you know, you learn quite quickly early in life that not everyone can hold the space for that. And certainly not your autistic ADHD mother or, you know, your parents who may have sensory challenges. and so you learn quite early in life that it's not okay to be that intense and you gotta hide that you know and then you grow up and that part never really gets dealt with it gets uh you know pushed down and it's like you're submerging in water it's like you can't breathe sometimes and when you go into a relationship and someone triggers that feeling of walking on eggshells and not being able to express what you really want and then you're in a relationship because they related with the mask not the real you they didn't want the person who has needs they wanted the mask who can be there for them and it can re-traumatize the person inside that relationship and then you get to later in life like around my age you get people who are going through menopause perimenopause and there was a book that just came out recently called autistic menopause and in it there was this one line that said women who tend to suppress their emotions tend to do less well health-wise during menopause and it's in expressing what is being suppressed that really helps your health you know especially when your sex hormones are going up and down you know and and that's uh that's where i am right now you know it's it's that trying to differentiate who you are as you get older and become more empowered to discern and make your own decisions about, you know, who you are and who you let into your corner, who you align with.

20:59That is entirely where I'm at right now.

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22:18Dr. Samantha Hiew:Just a note though, this code is only applicable on the web browser and not the smartphone. Back to the episode. Can it be a challenging part of the journey post-diagnosis, expressing your emotions when perhaps the masked version of you was perhaps more stoic and hid them and kept them inside? So it's more, what does that real self look like, you know? So the young part of us that's never really, you know, properly expressed her feelings, right? She's going to come out quite immature. You know, then you get her protector who may be angry, right? But then if you have worked on really soothing the inner child and the protector, then over time, I'm not saying it's perfect.

23:04I'm not saying that I can do it all the time. you know in the moment but you give me some time you know the softness does you know come back and it's it's it's like what they say in psychology you're reparenting your inner child but also the fact that you're not getting it from the outside you're getting it inside you where you are reparenting your inner child in the way that that uh scared angry child doesn't come out every time when something doesn't work out. And it does come with just practicing inside relationships, I think.

23:41Dr. Samantha Hiew:Is making friends a challenge for somebody who is perhaps newly diagnosed with ADHD? If you're on the process of discovering who you really are and you don't really have all the data and all the pieces there yet, the complete picture of who you are, it must be quite challenging to see who's in alignment with who you are and who isn't. Is it a challenge to make friends post-diagnosis? I think post-diagnosis, like diagnosis, a late diagnosis in itself is a traumatic event for a lot of people understanding, you know, in your 40s or 30s or the labels that are supposed to encapsulate your experience, except that it doesn't fully.

24:21Then it can make you think that you are so different. And then you may also think that, oh, maybe people who are autistic ADHD like me would be better friends. And I've realized that whilst it's definitely cause for more understanding, being around people who share the same labels, many people in this population are also quite traumatized. And that makes relationships challenging. Because then you're trying not to trigger each other. And the thing is, you are going into trauma-informed relationships whilst you are healing yourself. So you are watching yourself both thinking, am I really feeling this?

25:21Or am I being manipulative? Or am I being sincere here? Is this right? You know, like just questioning yourself, your behaviors more. Yeah, so it can be an interesting experience. But on the flip side of that is there's no one else who could understand burnout better than someone who shares the same label, who can understand, you know, sensory challenges. so we know that when we go out together if we're both on a verge of burnout we can just you know have individual pods of um i i i like to go to flotation tanks where i can just be by myself whilst you know a friend is in the other room so we both understand each other so we don't have to spend time together but it's almost like parallel play you know and that's great when you

26:08Dr. Samantha Hiew:have a friendship like that what about true love is it is it hard to find true love if you're if you're newly diagnosed and you're on this journey of understanding who you actually are is it hard to to find your soulmate when you're in that phase of life uh yes well speaking as somebody who has you know navigated quite a few relationship um breakdowns and before my marriage i used to think of myself as being quite what is that word serial monogamous you know and and never really understood what I could bring to relationships. And my attachment patterns had changed over time from actually being quite avoidant to begin with.

26:49I then had a period of appearing quite secure because I was in a stable relationship, I guess. And then after that, becoming quite anxious, avoidant. It keeps changing. But right now, I'm navigating what really aligns with my values in terms of, and everyone has different ones, but for me it's so important that relationships are built on the truth. I don't care, you know, what the other person is asking for, no matter how unreasonable, as long as it's the truth. You know, but not everyone can tell you the truth because when you come to my age, I'm in my mid-40s and we have had preconditioning about what relationships are supposed to be.

27:42And many of us grew up with parents who believe that even if you don't feel happy here, you'll stay together forever. But we're not like that. Now we're the generation who believes that love doesn't always work out and that's okay. In some ways also, we don't expect it to be perfect. But we're also trying to figure out how to have conscious relationships. Then it can make it harder because once you become more discerning, then you are less likely to say yes to majority of relationships. And it becomes quieter for a while, but that's okay because then you attract more alignment. And really in this matter, quantity isn't as important as quality.

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