The Tragic Impact Of Undiagnosed ADHD & How To Reverse It | Dr. Jacob Ambrose

26:43Do you think getting a diagnosis of ADHD, getting a professional's stamp of approval, getting that diagnosis, do you think that really helps somebody in their journey of self-awareness and self-understanding? I think so. I think when you get a diagnosis, one, you've probably been living, I mean, you have been living with this your whole life, and a lot of people won't get it. Some people might jump on board though, if they see someone with credentials that says, here's the stamp that says you have ADHD. So I'm, I'm all for getting a diagnosis, but I think it also helps clear up some, you know, misdiagnoses or misunderstandings because it is important to really figure out, do I have this?

27:26And am I relating to a lot of the things that I'm seeing because of something else or because there's a whole lot of ways in which, for example, someone might have issues with attention, but it might be because they need glasses. But if you get that accurate diagnosis, I think that's extremely helpful. And also you don't necessarily need it at the same time. Don't allow the lack of a diagnosis or a lack of time to get one to discount your real experiences. So I would say it's nuanced and yeah, get one to convince some of those neurotypical peers you have. I feel like sometimes the self-esteem challenges that can come with being having ADHD, you can often doubt your own judgment.

28:05So even though you might say to yourself, I've got ADHD, I don't need a diagnosis, over time you could really begin to doubt that opinion of yourself. So getting that diagnosis from a professional, that can be quite good evidence to combat any self-doubt of your own opinion that you have ADHD. Yeah, I love that you said that because as you've heard so many messages from the perpetrator that is saying that you don't quite fit in, you don't know what you're talking about. You're constantly being pushed away. So if you're not, if you can get that, that would be really helpful. And leaning into the self-acceptance of like, yes, I do know these things, right?

28:40That's a really good thing to do. And taking all of this into account through the lens of ADHD and RSD and feeling different, do you think people with ADHD attach differently to other people, specifically in a romantic setting? Oh, yeah. I like that question. I think you do 100%. I think that with ADHD, you are constantly looking for a rule book to figure out how to navigate the world. And with ADHD, you don't do anything halfway. So with relationships and dating, especially in the early phases of courtship, you can hyper focus on someone. You can experience that sense of limerence with another human being.

29:18You're thinking about them, hyper focus just like you would on anything that you're getting a lot of dopamine from. And so when you're latching onto that person, you're not only interested in them, but you're accepting them as an authority in your life in some way. So a lot of people with ADHD experience a lot of difficulties with dating because they're experiencing these big emotions that's larger than life that the other person doesn't quite get. And a lot of people with ADHD, once they go through that process, then they get rejected. That self-fulfilling prophecy happens and the person pushes them away.

29:51And the ADHD person will attempt to be more inhibited or nonchalant in those interactions. And that is even more difficult because with ADHD, you wear your emotions on your face. It's so hard for you to do anything halfway, both behaviorally and also non-verbally. So if you pretend like you don't care, people are going to think that you hate them. So in a sense, I would say people with ADHD, you are literally forced into a state of vulnerability when it comes to those situations in which you truly want someone. And part of the work is realizing that you're not necessarily different in that you don't date the same way.

30:28It's just that you are sort of forced with your working chemistry to date more vulnerably. Do you think someone with ADHD going into a new relationship, there's a higher chance that they will feel the need to mask because of their their internal fear that the new person might think that they're a bit too different. So they might put on this version of themselves and that is really liked by their new partner, but then over time you want to unmask because you want to be your true version of yourself for the longevity of the relationship. But is there a fear that the version of yourself that you displayed at the start of the relationship might be different to who you really are underneath?

31:07And therefore, Or what if my partner doesn't like what they see when the mask comes off? Yep, yep. That is partly, I think, why those long-term relationships can be so tricky, right? Because you can be wearing such a strong mask at the beginning because, like you said, you might be fearing that rejection. So I would say, yes, you will much more than the next person be tempted to mask because you're hoping that the other person accepts you. because you've learned over and over and over again that when you don't mask, people reject you. So as you lean to pull that mask off in the relationship, it's hard to do because you're like, wait a minute, am I going to get that same slap on the wrist that I got in childhood when I unmasked?

31:50But the trickiest part about relationships is that you can't fake it for that long. So at some point, you're going to get triggered, they're going to get triggered, and the mask is going to come off whether you like it or not. some people with age you turn to extreme shame in those moments and they say i'm a monster that hurt you i let this monster out by mistake i'm sorry i must go or um i finally unmask okay i'm waiting for the other shoe to drop like reject me right then that's that's some of a very common experience i've seen with a lot of clients and with rejection rsd that can be a bit of a grenade right a minefield in a relationship particularly when you're you feel like you've got so much invested emotionally in this person.

32:33And yet sometimes their actions inadvertently might be the cause of a trigger. How do you see RSD causing struggles in a romantic relationship with someone with ADHD? Yeah, I see it. I see it happen quite a lot because it is a grenade, right? Like your, your rejection sensitivity is something that you've experienced since childhood. You've got all these bruises on your body from when you were rejected in childhood. So you go into a new relationship and this person that's very new to you and you're very new to them, you're trying to interact. They might be very innocent in a critique or you might be very reactive to that critique, right?

33:13And then that person says you're being too much and then you react and you say, well, you're telling me I'm too much. I've been told that since I was a child. I think in relationships it's extremely hard because it can recreate all of the pain you went through in childhood again with another human being simply because that person doesn't quite understand what's happening in you and because you're also reacting to not the person in front of you, but the people that hurt you for so long. How do you deal with that kind of guilt though? If you are triggered and you say something nasty in response because you're in that heightened emotional state, but in doing so, you're pushing away somebody that you do actually deeply love and you don't want to hurt.

33:53And then you're kind of left on your own after a trigger, after a big argument because of RSD. And I guess you're just filled with shame, filled with guilt. And you kind of want to go to that person who you've had this big row with after you've regulated and you've come down from that heightened state and apologize. How do you deal with that rollercoaster of emotions as a person with ADHD, with RSD, and you're scared that you're going to push that person away because of RSD? I would say it's somehow, someway, pausing in the middle of the emotion. With ADHD, you can experience huge emotions. You can zoom into something that feels extremely interesting when it comes to positive stimulation, but the same thing can occur when it comes to negative stimulation.

34:40So if you're in the middle of a relationship with someone where you're in conflict and the person says something that misses you and you're experiencing a misunderstanding, understanding, pausing in the middle of that storm can be one of the greatest changes that you can shift if you're with someone that's open to learning more about you. Because they might be someone that is not very neurodiversion informed, right? There's all sorts of people. But I think pausing in the middle of that storm allows you to try to look past the emotion and to communicate clearly with the other person saying, hey, I'm experiencing this and it's rooted in this.

35:17I've learned this from my trauma and it's a chronic trauma and I need you to be present with me in the middle of it. And I think the second piece might be realizing that it's not your fault that you're feeling this way. You're feeling something very big and it's important that you allow yourself to feel those things, not from a place of judgment, but more so from a place of recovery. Are you someone that I can recover with? And it's not going to look good for a while because we're going to trigger each other. But over time, just like any relationship, we're going to slowly build and grow close together and we're going to learn each other.

35:52And then the reptile in me that's been afraid of being hurt since childhood will slowly start to regulate, just like you would with a traumatized cat. You know, you wouldn't run up to a traumatized cat and squeeze it. It might scratch your face. you learn to become afraid of the things that the cat's afraid of so that you don't touch those things and just like the other person is also a traumatized cat you learn to live together you mentioned the word limerence there could you briefly explain what you mean by limerence in a relationship so limerence is essentially when you hyper fixate on another human being it's basically when you be you become obsessed with them in their existence you fantasize about this person.

36:31You don't even have to necessarily know them that well, but essentially they feel like God that can give you both heaven and hell. With ADHD, this is quite common because you hyper-focus. You already have that tendency to hyper-focus on things that are important to you. You've experienced a lot of rejection from early attachment figures. So when there's an attachment figure that seems very interesting to you, to recover that loss, you are ready to bridge the gap between you and them immediately. Even more so, people with ADHD and anxious attachment, for example, they will hyper-focus on other human beings and try to bridge that connection between the two.

37:09And the other piece with ADHD that makes it more common is that you wear your expressions on your face and through your behaviors. When you're the raw, unfiltered version of yourself, you can chase someone with great intensity. So limerence is very common because it's really the expression of, I desire you, I want to have you. And whenever you're someone with ADD, you can impulsively seek out that other person. You can push for them really hard. So it's very common. So if the limerence is high and you perceive this new person as being on such a pedestal, you're hyper-focusing on them, they're your entire world, but you perceive a criticism from that person, is therefore the RSD trigger also heightened?

37:54Oh, yes, totally. That sends, if being rejected by someone that you didn't have on a pedestal hurts and you can think about it until 3 a.m., being rejected by someone that you have limerence with, a hyperfixation, you've just been kicked out of heaven. That can be something that can cause you not to eat for a few days, right? That feels like hell. And that makes relationships feel that much more scary. So a lot of people can even with ADHD resign to not wanting to do relationships because they feel like, I feel like I have psychosis when I have a crush on someone. It feels completely like it takes you away from your ability to engage in reality testing.

38:34So I would say a thousand times yes. And if the limerence isn't reciprocated, what does that look like? That's quite a risky situation to be in for someone with ADHD? Yeah, it can look like desperation. It can look like the door keeps closing on your face and this is the one person that just got away. If you think about the exponentially bigger version of that one product at the supermarket that you couldn't get, that now you have to somehow forget about. Think about that, but times a hundred, right? Now there's a human being on the other side that's reminding of your trauma. And as we know with trauma, a lot of people are dealing with this in therapy, but the people that hurt either most early on or sometimes people want to get the most mastery over.

39:21So a lot of people with ADHD can be very attracted to people that push them away because they've been feeling like the connection is right on the other side of the door of rejection. So yes, it's really hard to reach that. If somebody that keeps pushing away, that can be a very tough situation. How do you, because something I deal with a lot is object permanence, which is this idea that something's out of sight, out of mind and that can cause some struggles. I can forget to reply to emails, reply to text messages because they're not in my immediate now. But if I'm heartbroken and I'm obsessing over the pain of being hurt by someone I have high limerence over, why does object permanence not apply in that scenario?

40:05If they're not in my immediate now, why can't I forget they exist? I wasn't thinking about object permanence, but that is a brilliant connection and I'm excited to. I think with ADHD, you have out of sight, out of mind, like you're saying. You have difficulties with working memory in a sense because it's harder for you to hold, in a sense, different chunks of information. So of course, if something's not right in front of you that's not stimulating, it's gone. But another thing to consider with ADHD is that when something is truly important to you, because your working memory might be a bit more difficult.

40:42It's almost like this difficulty with object permanence makes it even more so hard to deal with the separation because now that this person that you're extremely hyper-focused on is pulling away, you're like, wait, I don't wanna lose this person forever. So a lot of times with ADHD, especially when you're really hyper-focused on someone, you might need exponentially more evidence to know that that person won't leave you or forsake you. That's why a lot of people with ADHD can deal with fears of abandonment, yet also deal with the issue of out of sight and out of mind. It can feel more comfortable with people that you're not hyper fixated on, but you know how easily you can lose things and people because of short working memory, but also because of rejection and heartbreak.

41:27So it makes it even more intense that you don't have that evidence in front of you. And do you think men and women experience this experience of limerence and obsession in the early stages in a relationship in equal measure. I ask because 80 % of the listeners and viewers of this podcast are women. And perhaps more broadly, first, we'll start with, do you think ADHD generally presents differently between men and women? Totally, yes. I think that a lot of women with ADHD that are navigating the world, they experience a lot of stress because if you're a guy with ADHD, you're still experiencing a whole lot of pain and rejection, of course.

42:07But I think when you run into issues for taking up too much space, society looks at you and kind of chuckles first and then says, cut that out. For women, it's cut that out. It's not okay. And then you even get rejected by other women as well. Other women that have felt like I need to fit into this box of society and make myself small. And I cut that immature side of myself out a long time ago. Why haven't you? And so I think a lot of women deal with that. And when it comes to dating, unfortunately for a lot of women, you are feeling that part of yourself cry out. And it says, I want to impulsively seek this person.

42:42I want to be vulnerable. And ADHD is a vulnerability diagnosis. So when you're trying to navigate relationships as a woman with ADHD, if you lean into something called avoidant attachment, which is essentially a style of relating to people where vulnerability feels like a curse because you never want to give people the opportunity to hurt you again you can want to lock yourself in a box so i've seen a lot of women with adhd and avoid an attachment avoid dating at all costs because they feel like i i don't want to be put in a state where somebody can hurt me and if someone's listening and they hear you say that and they're not sure what attachment style they are what what might be some common signs of someone who has an anxious attachment style?

43:23Oh, yeah. Thanks for bringing that up. So attachment is basically a word that means how you connect with other people. So when you're looking at different styles of attachment, if you want to figure out which one you relate to, I would say it's good to observe these four types. You have secure attachment, which is where you have a positive view of yourself and others. You have avoided attachment, where you feel as though other people are untrustworthy at times. And you can trust yourself to navigate the world, but with other people, you're not so sure. And so vulnerability becomes very scary. With anxious attachment, if you lean that way, you are some of the most hopeful people, but you feel like you need to change everything about yourself to meet the boxes of someone else so that you can pull them towards you.

44:07It's positive view of others, negative view of self. Finally, there's fearful attachment where you experience a good bit of both and you have the biggest sometimes internal experiences. A lot of people with ADHD have fearful attachment, which is kind of the worst of both worlds. So if you're listening and you're trying to figure that out, it's worth digging into and to see how do I relate to people? Do I mask so strongly that I hide myself because I think vulnerability feels extremely scary? That might look more avoided. If you're pursuing people and you feel like if I only were accepted, I would feel completely at ease in life.

44:45And I need to do whatever I can to change myself, whether it's exercise, becoming more intellectual or whatever, to win people over. And I keep putting myself in compromising states to do that. That might look a little bit more anxiously attached. And what damage can happen in a relationship if you are someone who has an anxious attachment style? What does that in reality look like? What kind of behaviors would someone give off? Is that kind of someone who is constantly seeking reassurance from their partner? Oh, yeah, totally. Yeah, traditional anxious attachment. You're constantly seeking connection with people.

45:20With ADHD and anxious attachment, imagine how much that enhances that, right? If you have ADHD and anxious attachment, the already existing fears of abandonment grow because you've been one told by society with anxious attachment that, okay, you are not enough. You experience that a whole lot. But with ADHD, you literally are rejected for your own neurochemistry. So if you have both ADHD and anxious attachment and you're in a relationship, not only do you need evidence that that person won't leave, but you have a hard time seeing it with your ADHD. Not only do you have a hard time not prioritizing the other person over your day, but you also experience impulsive urges to send them millions of texts because you also have this wiring of impulsivity, right?

46:04So when you're dealing with dating with anxious attachment and ADHD, you are 100 % given a tough hand to deal with. There's the light side of the other side of the coin, but on the dark side of the coin, relationships are extremely hard to navigate without disrespecting yourself in that way. Do you think two people with ADHD are a good match? In other words, do two people who potentially have anxious attachment styles, is that a good match or do opposites attract? What are compatible attachment styles? I think it's actually extremely compatible if it happens. But it is my opinion that a lot of people, two people with ADHD will probably have a hard time connecting with each other.

46:49They might meet each other, but the moment that something like dating or relationships come up, it's very likely that one will accidentally reject the other one. Because if you have high levels of rejection sensitivity and you experience difficulties with eye contact and you've been told that you're not enough, it's very likely that as you're talking to someone that you're really invested in, you might look down. Or your working memory might be filled up with chunks of information that are taking your ability to focus away. And then the other person on the other side with ADHD is picking all this up, and they feel rejected by all these cues.

47:20And then they go into their own head. And so at the end of the day, you both feel like you hate each other's guts. And it never quite gets there because also the executive functioning of trying to push past during something that seems very daunting is very difficult. So I hardly ever see a lot of people with ADHD with anxious attachment together, especially. And I guess you can push the person away. You can almost self-sabotage the relationship if you perceive that they have rejected you in some way. It's kind of like you want to be the one in control of ending the relationship before they hurt you.

47:53Certainly. Yeah. I mean, if you see that there's a daunting task in front of you with ADHD and rejection is on the other side of that, it's very likely that you will head out before it gets too bad because you're afraid of being hurt again. So if you're experiencing limerence in relationships, you're hyper-focused on someone, even in that case, you might be so afraid of getting hurt that you pull away because you know that this person is, you might be leading it to a bad place, right? Even though you're attracted. The worst part of ADHD, I think, is also that you are so capable. You have so much potential.

48:30And you know that in private, you show so much of that potential. The issue is that when you go in public and you experience what's called that rejection sensitivity, now your working memory is filled up with all sorts of negative pieces of information that disturbs your performance. So if you're experiencing all of that and you're trying to pursue a relationship, that can just really, really make things difficult for you. Out of the people I've spoken to, one of their main concerns is that they want to open up in their relationship about ADHD, but they're concerned that their partner might have some misconceptions about what ADHD actually is, some certain myths that feed into a perhaps unhelpful stereotype.

49:09What do you think are some of the biggest ADHD misconceptions that are out there? Yeah. The first ADHD misconception that comes to mind, and I think one of the worst misconceptions is that you are clueless. You are short-sighted. You don't know what's right in front of you, and you have no ability to be there for the people around you. I think that is a huge misconception because people with ADHD are the most curious people in the world. They long to look deeply at things. But I think the issue is that when you look deeply at things, you might bump into a wall next to you. And so as you're trying to, you have all this ability to go deeply into something, but no bridge to connect to the people around you.

49:52And so people see you as sort of this system that's not quite operating effectively in a lot of situations that other people are. So I think that's one of the bigger misconceptions that you aren't clueless. You are so insightful that some people don't get you. Very curious in other people's conversations sometimes when I'm in a restaurant with my partner, and I have to bring myself back to the conversation. It's men and women. I think that's a big myth, right? That sadly still seems to be true in many circles that ADHD is just a male issue, a male thing. And do you think it's common for people with ADHD to hear that they just need to work harder by people that perhaps just don't get the internal invisible workload that's going on in their head.

50:42Yeah. And that's the, sometimes the saddest message is that you just need to work harder because you've been working so hard your whole life. Most of the clients that I work with ADHD, the message is exactly the opposite. You've been working so hard and part of growth is going to look like you taking a step back. Unfortunately, a lot of people with ADHD even get called selfish, right? Because they think that people that are neurotypical are assuming that you're not paying attention to them. They're thinking that you're not caring about them. But in reality, you are so focused on something that can be so deep that the rest of the world can become literally invisible at times.

51:17And so people don't get that. This has been truly fascinating, Jacob. I want to move on to my favorite part of the show, which is called the ADHD item section. Every week, my guest brings in an item that most represents ADHD for them. And I'm going to reveal what yours is now underneath this cloth is a pair of binoculars. So I'll leave it to you to explain why does a pair of binoculars represent ADHD? I think binoculars work perfectly because I wish that everybody could see that with these. It's exactly what you're wearing all the time with ADHD. I think binoculars are a perfect example of what the experience of someone with ADHD is like because when you look into them, you can see things that are very far away.

52:03You can look at them with great detail and there's fascinating information that you can get depending on what you're looking at. Unfortunately though, a lot of people don't have these binoculars. These are people that are neurotypical, who knows what. So as you're looking at the world with these binoculars, you have all these fascinating insights, yet you can accidentally bump into a wall and that's what people see. So people assume that you are somewhat short-sighted and you don't know what's going on half the time, when in reality, you're in a world that is just as real as the world that other people live in.

52:36They just can't see what you see. Unfortunately, with the rejection sensitivity of ADHD, a lot of people will have a fear of opening up about this whole world that they can see. And so they won't even go into detail about it. I think the biggest issue is that these binoculars are invisible. Because a lot of people who are neurotypical that don't also see these binoculars assume that you're either clueless, selfish, or just completely out of the loop on things. When in reality, you're just really good at seeing things from far away. I wish that we could all see that this is the experience of ADHD and that these binoculars were actually visible.

53:13And I think that would actually start to unite people. So that's why I picked these. Yeah, that's fascinating, Jacob. I think it's such a good representation. You're so focused on the world. Sometimes you see details that neurotypical people miss. And I think that makes us tremendous problem solvers sometimes. I think people with ADHD, we've had to solve problems from such a young age just to solve the problem of feeling different. And maybe that is masking. but we see details that other people miss and i think it's such an important reminder um that thinking differently is not a problem to be fixed but but a strength to be embraced um fascinating jacob i want to move on to the adhd agony arm section which is uh where a member of the audience sends in a question um and it's in a washing machine because my item is a washing because it represents memory loss because I always leave my clothes in the laundry after a cycle and I ask all my guests, do you do the same?

54:17I would say yes. You don't have to lie to make me feel better. No, I do. Yeah, that's fascinating. I think I have been using the Timo app, which has made me a little bit better. But yeah, still the smell of damp gets me sometimes. And if anyone's watching, a little reminder to go empty your washing machine or restart the cycle. This week, Jacob, someone's asked, even though I'm a little older now in my mid-40s and the world has come a long way to understanding ADHD, I still bear the scars of being misunderstood for so long. Even things said to me at school 30 years ago, why won't these scars heal?

54:58Gosh, that's a big one. Yeah, that's huge. That's the million-dollar question. Great, great question, by the way. That is essentially the experience of a lot of people with ADHD because when you're trying to change any kind of behavior, the only way to change it is you can't just think your way through it. That's the first step, of course. But the second step is that you have to get a new experience. So I want you to imagine that there's a cold pool of water in front of you and you walk down towards it and you dip your toe in it and it's really cold. You can pull your toe back out. your body is going to be like, this is really, really not comfortable.

55:36The only way that you can actually experience warmth in that moment is to go all the way into the pool, stay in it, and then your body will slowly get the new message that it is safe here, it is warm. But you need, in other words, to have new experiences. With ADHD, you are getting new experiences all the time that send the message to you that the water is cold. and what you need are new, healthy relationships that send you the message that the water is warm. So if you can create essentially an equation that shows that you are getting more positive experiences on average of acceptance, pure acceptance, both from yourself and other people, that can slowly shift it.

56:19It's going to take a long time. It's going to take a lot more time than other people because you're navigating a world that is constantly trying to tell you, don't go into the water. but if you can first identify how you're keeping yourself out of the water, not saying what's wrong with this broken system, not yelling at yourself when you make a mistake, realizing that you have real abilities and real disability pieces with ADHD that's different than the world, and then finally surround yourself with people with that same logic, then you can start to see some changes. But it is extremely difficult when you're in a world that discourages you from all water.

56:55Right. So is it about collecting as much evidence as possible that's contradicting the inner critic that you have that's been built up through years of being told that you're different? Yes, it's building up new pieces of evidence and real lived experiences. So at the cognitive level, at the level of thought, the new understanding that I am not broken. I am someone that's different and I have great abilities. But then at the physical level, the behavioral level, it's opening up about your emotions, allowing them to be just as big as they are, and then the person in front of you not saying, cut that out, but giving you a hug.

57:35If you can get both of those experiences over and over and over again in closeness, then you'll start to feel like your heart's regulated, even in the middle of a misunderstanding. And is there anything that he can do also to help cement that new bits of evidence that contradict that internal monologue? Because I feel like object permanence comes into this, right? Because you could put yourself into the cold water and you could get that new experience of that's not as dangerous as I thought, but perhaps time can go past and then you could forget because the inner critic is so hardwired from so many early messages.

58:11What can someone do to kind of really help cement that new experience to keep that contradiction more sustained? I would say it's truly about creating new systems because 100 % is so hard with object permanence. It's so hard with executive dysfunction to keep new things going. But I will say one of the gifts of ADHD is that you are like a train. You, if you build a new habit that stays consistent over the period of like a month or so, that is going to become your new way of life. So if you can create new ways of life that are very practical, that lead to not rejection sensitivity and real rejection experiences, but moments of acceptance, that can change everything.

58:53So I would say find something that you truly are proud of yourself when you do it. You know, if it's an activity or an idea, find people that will celebrate those things. and then allow them to celebrate that. Be in spaces where you truly are feeding your ADHD the things that it needs to survive well, right? Eating well, sleeping well, doing all the things that set you up for positive experiences. I would say that's the best advice. And then finally, being in community with someone regularly that supports that way of life. It's huge. Really helpful, Jacob. As I said, this has been a lot of fun.

59:29Just before we finish, I'm going to deliver you a letter that was written by the previous guest, where the previous guest actually wrote themselves a little letter for the younger version of themselves. And it was put in that letterbox. If I could deliver the letter to you, Jacob, if you could kindly read it out. This is a letter from the previous guest to their younger self. This is so cool. You won't believe this, but it's true. You're going to become an ADHD advocate. Release some potential. Hashtag brain friend. Hugs and kisses, Christian. that was Kristen Pressner she was amazing yeah and if afterwards if you could kindly write a letter to your younger self and then the next guest will read it out of course Jacob as I said truly valuable thank you so much for sharing your wisdom for all the listeners who are struggling to grapple to understand their brains thank you very much thank you for having me it's been incredible it's been great I feel almost a bit emotional at this space so thank you for providing it you