622- A Self-Advocacy Guide for Students with ADHD: Training for Parents, Teachers, and Coaches

0:00Soft, cushy, plush, cozy. Soft, smooth, buttery, marshmallowy, warm. Soft. Socks, underwear, tees, and more. Bombas. Everyday comfort worth obsessing over. Visit bombas.com slash audio and use code audio for 20 % off your first purchase. That's B-O-M-B-A-S dot com slash audio. One purchase equals one donated. Always.

0:33Welcome to the Attention Deficit Disorder Expert Podcast Series by Attitude Magazine.

0:43I'm Annie Rogers and on behalf of the Attitude team, I am delighted to welcome you to today's ADHD Experts presentation titled The Self-Advocacy Guide for Students with ADHD, a training for parents, teachers, and coaches. Leading today's presentation is Brooke Schnittman. Brooke has more than 21 years of experience in special education and ADHD coaching, including 15 years as a special education teacher and assistant director of special education. During that time, she's helped develop and review more than a thousand IEPs. She's the best-selling author of Activate Your ADHD Potential and creator of the 3C Activation Framework used by clients and certified coaches in more than 40 countries.

1:39Brooke and her team help parents understand their children's needs, build their confidence, and teach them how to advocate for themselves at school. Diagnosed with ADHD at age 35, Brooke was once the student who struggled to explain what she needed at school. She is now part of a blended family of five in which everyone is neurodivergent, including her husband, daughter, and two teenage step-sons. Today, she will demonstrate the self-awareness, executive function, and emotional regulation skills required for ADHD self-advocacy. She'll explain why telling a student to just speak up rarely works and what adults can do instead.

2:23And Brooke will show us how to help students identify their strengths, challenges, learning needs, and the most useful accommodations. If you value the work we're doing here at Attitude to support the ADHD community, please consider subscribing to Attitude Magazine. Your subscription helps us to continue providing trusted resources and information to help your family. You can visit attitudemag.com slash subscribe or click the link to subscribe now, that tab, sorry, on your screen and receive 15 % off and a free ebook. Okay. Without any further ado, I'm so delighted to welcome Brooke Schnitman.

3:09Brooke, thank you so much for joining us today and for leading this really timely and poignant discussion. Awesome. Thank you for having me, Annie. All right. Thank you everyone for being here. I know time is valuable, especially in the middle of the day. And as Annie mentioned, I'm Brooke Schnitman, ADHD and executive function coach, coach trainer. But before I did this work, as she mentioned, I spent more than a decade in special ed as a teacher and administrator, and also currently being a neurodivergent family of five and a mom and a step-mom. So I always say ADHD found me. I did not find ADHD, but it's here to stay.

3:49And it's ironic, like many women, I was diagnosed with ADHD at 35. That was after getting my master's degree in students with disabilities from NYU, after years working in special education, and after already being diagnosed with an auditory processing disorder and anxiety. Reason why I'm saying that is I know this from both sides. I know what it's like to support students who can't explain what's happening. And I also know what it feels like to be that person who knows something isn't working, but can't explain why. That's a big reason I've made my focus to work with parents, educators, coaches, and how to give students the language and practice they need rather than just telling them to speak up.

4:30So I want to start with a student I worked with named Anthony. He was capable, had an IEP, and one of his accommodations was extended time. I'm sure you've heard this before. He knew he had it and his teacher did as well. But when he took the test, he performed significantly lower because he didn't use it. So when we got down to the core of what was going on, he said, I don't want to be the only one who stayed. I don't want to stand out. So that sentence has now stayed with me for more than 20 years. That accommodation and the plan weren't missing from his IEP. What wasn't accessible in that moment was the self-advocacy skill.

5:14So think about everything he would have had to do. He had to recognize that he needed the extra time, remember he had it, decide whether using it was worth standing out from everyone else, find the words to ask, and then tolerate being seen asking by the other kids. So having support and using support are two completely different skills. An IEP or 504 tells us what support's available, but self-advocacy helps the student recognize the need and communicate it in real time.

5:53So speaking up can feel risky. There's many reasons why. And there may be another layer underneath that hesitation. In a phase one ADHD survey sample that we did in Coaching with Brooke, 90.7%, that's 147 out of 162 adults with ADHD, reported experiencing bullying during childhood. Now, I want to be careful with what I'm saying here. This is retrospective data from our Coaching with Brooke adult ADHD bullying survey sample. I'm not saying that 90.7 % of all children with ADHD are bullied. And this survey doesn't establish that bullying causes difficulty with self-advocacy. Other research out there shows that children with ADHD are 47 % more likely to be bullied than the general population.

6:51And that's more than double. But this information gives us an important lens. From some students, speaking up may carry a history. And Dr. William Dodson has cited an estimate that by age 10, a child with ADHD may have received about 20 ,000 more negative or corrective messages than their peers. So think about what those messages can sound like over the course of childhood. Pay attention. Stop interrupting. Why did you forget that again? You know this. Why aren't you trying? and then we turn around and say, okay, now go tell your teacher what you need. And for some kids, that's a much bigger ask than it sounds.

7:38And maybe being different has gotten them teased. Maybe asking for something has gotten a negative response. Or maybe they feel like they've already taken up too much space, like so many individuals with ADHD do, and learned that standing out and speaking up no longer feel safe. Sometimes a student has tried to speak up before and heard you're too sensitive, the worst, or it's not that big of a deal or just ignore it. But then what happens repeatedly, students can start to question their own experience or expect to be dismissed. So the question can shift from, can I explain what I need to? Am I even right to need it?

8:23So instead of immediately asking a student, why didn't you just ask, which can induce shame, even though you might genuinely be curious, let's start with a what question. Like what made asking feel hard in that moment? Because that's a very different conversation.

8:47All right, there's three reasons speaking up can feel risky before student says one word. One is visibility. Student may know exactly what they need and still think everyone's going to notice that I need something different, just like Anthony, right? Standing out can feel threatening and rejection sensitivity can make it feel even worse. Then there's past reactions. Maybe they asked before on someone's side or accused them of making excuses or told them to try harder. Students remember those interactions like it was yesterday, even if it was five years ago. Eventually they may decide it's safer just not to ask and not be seen.

9:31And from the outside, they can look avoidant or like it's a lack of responsibility or they're lazy, but internally, the student may be trying to protect themselves. And then the third reason is uncertainty. So sometimes a student knows something is wrong, but cannot identify the barrier or find the words to explain what they need. So if I can't tell you what I need, how am I supposed to advocate for it? And that's why self-awareness has to come before self-advocacy.

10:06This episode is sponsored by Simple Practice. For all the therapists out there listening, I want to start out by saying, we know your work does not end when the session does. There's scheduling, notes, billing, insurance follow-ups, All that admin that happens before and after the work you actually care about. That's why I want to share Simple Practice. Simple Practice is an all-in-one EHR that's HIPAA compliant, high-trust certified, and built specifically for therapists. It brings scheduling, billing, insurance, and client communication into one place so you're not juggling multiple systems.

10:51Automated appointment reminders also help reduce no-shows, and note templates make documentation faster so the business side of your practice feels just lighter. And if you're just starting out or growing your practice, they also have a credentialing service that helps you get paneled independently. It takes the total headache out of insurance enrollment, giving you full autonomy over your own contracts without any middleman platforms taking a cut. So if you're ready to simplify the business side of your practice, now's a great time to try Simple Practice. Start with a seven-day free trial, then get 50 % off your first four months.

11:33Just go to simplepractice.com to claim the offer. Again, that's simplepractice.com.

11:48now let's take a look at what the brain actually has to do to self-advocate it's not one skill it's an entire executive function chain and we know adhd can be referred to as an executive function disorder so now you're taking all of the executive functions and in this chain first they have to notice to speak up and self-advocate. It's to recognize that something isn't working and help is needed. The second thing they need to do is regulate. So they have to manage enough stress to do something about it. We know that a stressed brain likely can be overwhelmed and shut down and the executive functions aren't working as properly.

12:32Then after they regulate, they have to remember, which is recalling what support is available. from there they have to choose and decide what would actually help me right now we know choice can be extremely difficult with adhd then they have to word it turn the internal experience into a clear sentence then they have to finally act the sixth step initiate their press and tolerate the response all of that has to work in order for them to self-advocate so imagine a student looking at written directions that suddenly stop making sense. So they've noticed they're confused. Regulate enough not to shut down.

13:14Remember that clarification is allowed. Choose the support, find the words, and then finally ask. And notice that regulate comes before we ask the student to choose the words or act. And that's intentional. So if a student is already embarrassed or anxious, angry, or feeling rejected, we may be asking them to problem solve at the exact moment when those executive functions are harder to access. Sometimes the first self-advocacy skill is recognizing I'm too activated to do this right now. I need a minute. And here's something else I want you to think about as you look at this chain. Dr. Russell Barclay described what he calls a 30 % rule as a rough way of understanding the developmental lag we can see in executive functioning and self-regulation in ADHD.

14:05So let's picture a 12-year-old. We may look at that student and think, you're 12. You should act like you're 12. You should be able to tell your teacher what you need. Yet chronologically, they're 12. But some of the executive function skills we're asking that student to do may still be developing. And in fact, executive functions can develop till 25 and often cases even later. So look at what we're asking them to do. Notice the problem, regulate the emotion, remember the support, decide what would help, find the words, initiate the conversation, and then tolerate whatever response comes back.

14:43I don't know about you, but even saying it, I feel exhausted. Okay. So while they're doing all of that, they may also be thinking, is everyone looking at me? Is my teacher going to be annoyed? How loud am I saying it? Now let's think back to Anthony from the beginning. He wasn't simply deciding whether or not to use extra time. He was managing all of that while also thinking, I don't want to be the only one who stays. So that chain can break at any length. And that's why I don't see self-advocacy as something we can simply expect because a student has reached a certain age. These are skills we have to teach and we have to practice.

15:26So just speak up. This is the shift. When we say just speak up, we're actually skipping all of those steps we just looked at. We wouldn't tell a student struggling with executive function to just organize better and consider that instruction, right? The common, just do it. Like that doesn't work. We teach the system, we need to model it, and we need to practice it. So speaking up deserves the same explicit instruction.

15:59So if self-advocacy has to be taught, where do we start? Well, we start by helping the student identify what's actually getting in the way of them self-advocating. I know it sounds simple, but this is one of the tools I use with clients and teach to coaches. It's called the why funnel. And funny enough, there is no why in it. It's the what funnel. But I love this because it helps us get underneath what the student first tells us and figure out what the actual barrier is. So we might begin with something feels hard. All right. Something feels hard, can't put words to it. What is this? Right? So then we'll ask the student, what about that feels hard for you?

16:46Instead of why does that feel hard? Right? Then when they answer the what about that feels hard for you, then we go even further and peel those onion layers back. What gets in the way when you try? And the answer to that, we would question with what would it make it easier? We're not here interrogating the student. We don't want them to feel bad. We're getting underneath the first answer, which is often the surface complaint. So at home, you want to pick one thing that's consistently hard and ask all three questions and write down what you hear. So when we get to the bottom of this why funnel, the answer becomes the ask.

17:35So here's a specific example that I'm sure many ADHD parents, educators, and coaches have heard before. The student says, I hate writing. How many of us have heard this one, right? We might be those people who hate writing too. But that gives me information, but it doesn't tell me what to do yet. Okay. They hate writing. So instead of giving them an accommodation of assistive technology or a scribe, let's go through this why funnel with them. What about writing feels hard? Well, maybe they say it takes too long. Okay. What gets in the way when you try? They answer, I don't know where to start.

18:26Your final question, what would make it easier? Maybe they come up with a sentence starter or a graphic organizer because they've used that before. And trust me, I get it. Not all students know. So, and if they don't know, it's okay. We can brainstorm with them what's worked in the past or offer some possible tools. so now we've learned something completely different the barrier may not be the writing the barrier may be the initiation of the task they're asked to be writing about and it's something open-ended so now the student can say can I have a sentence starter or graphic organizer to begin and that's so helpful because it's specific and actionable

19:14okay so after the why funnel where we've defined the actual barrier the next step is helping the student communicate what they need to their teacher but self-advocacy is often hardest at that exact moment it's needed most have you ever walked into a room and thought oh i knew what i wanted to say, why didn't I just say it? Right after having the conversation, we've all had those thoughts. And when we're stressed or overwhelmed or embarrassed or worried about how someone's going to respond, we're already using cognitive resources to manage this stress. And at the same time, self-advocacy requires us to notice what's wrong, regulate, remember what support's available, figure out what we need, find the words, initiate the request, remember that executive function chain.

20:12And we're adults. We've had decades more practice navigating uncomfortable conversations and they could still be hard for us. So now imagine asking a child to do that with a teacher who controls the grade, the assignment, or what happens in the classroom. So we don't want their first attempt at self-advocacy to happen when they're already overwhelmed. That's why prep matters. So we can help the student identify the need and build the language while their brain has more access to planning and word retrieval and flexible thinking. So this is where this one-page student-owned self-advocacy letter comes in.

20:52And it's going to be especially useful now at the beginning of the school year when teachers are still getting to know their students. So this is the beginning of a one-page document that you will be able to see in your event resources, available under the captions, and you can also scan it with the QR code on the top right. So the first steps of this letter is to tell the teacher who the student is, right? So they're going to tell the teacher who they are, what can be hard, what helps them learn, and what they can say when they need support. The student plans the words while they're calm and shares them before the stakes are high.

21:38The adults working with them, whether it be the coach or the parent, they can organize the letter for them. They can translate accommodation language and offer choices, but the student approves the words. The letter the student helps create becomes the first supported act of self-advocacy for the year. So what goes on the page?

22:04And this is in the handout as well. So the first thing, this does not need to be long. It should be short enough that a teacher is going to read it and a student's going to own it. So four things, a little bit about me, my strengths and challenges, what helps me, and one thing I may need to ask. That's it. We're not recreating the IEP or 504 if they have one. We're giving the student language they can actually use. Okay. and then slide 13 uh here we're starting with identity instead of difficulty right we want the teacher to know who the student is at the core what do you enjoy we're asking our student or child that what are you interested in what would you want this teacher to know about you Maybe the student writes, I enjoy art, soccer, and building things.

23:03Or I focus best when I can see an example and get started one step at a time. So why start here? Because I don't want the first thing the teacher learns about the student to be what's wrong. Our goal is not to have students experience this as another adult created document about their deficits. They get it enough. the teacher gets a person to connect with first and I remember this from when I was teaching before the school year started we would meet with the grade below us and learn about the students coming into our classrooms and I remember sometimes not wanting to know too much I wanted that student to walk into my classroom with a clean slate and I wanted to get to know them before I was influenced by what had been hard for them the year before or by another adult's experience of them.

23:56So that's what I want this letter to do too. Let that student introduce who they are before we introduce what they struggle with.

24:09Next, we're going to help the student identify two strengths and two areas of challenge. So if you ask, what are your strengths? And they say, I don't know. That's okay. Happens with adults too. So I want you to think about what we talked about earlier, if a student has spent years hearing what they need to fix, should we really be surprised when we ask, what are you good at? And they can't answer us. Many students need examples or choices before they can recognize and describe their strengths. And honestly, many of us do too. So the handout includes links in it to informal strengths and executive function assessments that students, parents, educators, and coaches can use together.

24:54You can also review the student's IEP or 504 for documented strengths, areas of need, and supports that have helped. So we're going to use that information to start the conversation with the student rather than deciding for them what belongs in the letter. So you might ask, are you creative? A problem solver? Good at helping classmates? Strong in discussions? Then ask what tends to be difficult? starting work, remembering several steps, taking notes while listening to verbal instructions, knowing when to ask for help. The adult can offer the questions and the examples, and there's a word bank on the sheet to help.

25:34The student decides what feels accurate to them.

25:41Now, we have to translate the accommodation. So this is one of my favorite parts. We're going to take the formal accommodation and turn it into an action the student can actually request. So you're thinking, well, like if it's in their accommodation plan or their IEP, then they shouldn't need to have to request it. Like the teacher should just know. But this is about self-advocacy, right? So extended time on tests, what does that actually mean? For the student, it could become, could I use my extra time for this test? Directions repeated or clarified can become, could you show me the first step?

26:17a reduced distraction setting becomes, is there a quieter place where I can finish this? Breaks can become, I need a short break. Where should I go? This is where I think we sometimes overestimate what it means for a child to know their accommodations. And knowing that the words extended time are written on your IEP is very different from being able to look at your teacher and say, could I use my extra time for this test? The difference between vague language and usable language becomes enormous when the student is under stress. So I need help still requires everyone to figure out what's wrong.

27:01Could you show me the first step tells the teacher exactly what the students need. And if there's no formal IEP or 504, a student can still advocate for their learning preference. I understand better when I can see an example first. Could you show me one? That's still self-advocacy.

27:24Okay, so now we've figured out their strengths, figured out their weakness, figured out their interests, what they want to share with the teacher. Now we actually have to hand the thing in. First, we want to choose the format. So it could be printed, it could be emailed, it could be uploaded on Google Classroom. It could be a short conversation with a letter in hand even. Second, you have to practice it with the student. Don't wait until a student is standing in front of the teacher to discover that they don't know how to start the conversation. And third, let the student lead whatever part they can manage.

28:01A younger child might walk in with a parent and physically hand the page to the teacher. And an older student may email it independently. The adult is used to support the child, but preserve one piece that belongs to the student. We're looking for manageable success instead of perfect performance. And at the beginning of the school year, as I mentioned, it's a perfect time to practice this before there's a problem.

28:38okay so then we practice the words before the hard moment scripts as seen here can reduce executive function load in a stressful moment the student doesn't have to invent the perfect response while they're already activated we're giving the brain something familiar to retrieve So they could practice, could I use my accommodation for this? I'm not sure how to start. Can you help me? I need a quick break. And don't just practice what to say, practice when to say it. Maybe it's before the class starts or after instruction, maybe after class, or maybe there's a private signal you've already established with the teacher.

29:21We've also used like parking lots where you write on a sticky note and then put it somewhere so the teacher can see after. And then you role play it. and practice more than the words. You need to practice the tone, the pace, how they'll start, those nuances. Knowing what to say intellectually, we know is very different from being able to retrieve it and use it when emotions are high. So confidence doesn't necessarily arrive for the student before the attempt. Sometimes we're waiting for a student to feel confident enough to speak up and it doesn't just happen. But what if the confidence isn't there yet?

29:58sometimes they have to experience this first. Often confidence comes after a supported attempt gives the student evidence. I asked, nobody got mad. I survived it. I can probably do it again. And eventually, this can become routine for the student and teacher. And throughout the year, they can reflect together on what works and what doesn't and what needs to change.

30:33so I want to flip this around for a second we've been talking a lot about the student and what they need to do for self-advocacy but what happens when you're the adult receiving the advocacy our response determines as an adult whether the student wants to try again I know it's a big amount of pressure. But our response can lower the load or it can add to it. So if the student finally tells us what happened and we immediately correct or we question or we lecture or we problem solve, they might shut right back down. Validation does not mean agreeing with every interpretation. It means communicating, I hear what you're telling me.

31:20So we want to connect first and then help them regulate and then finally problem solve when they're ready. If it took the students three days of rehearsing with their parent or coach to finally ask one sentence, your response to that sentence matters. So if you're the teacher, I want you to try, I know you have a big workload, but I want you to try to acknowledge that you read the letter. Maybe name one support you recognize and you'll use and establish a private signal if appropriate. Check in before the first major assignment or test. And then as a coach, we can help the student build the letter.

32:03We can translate the plan, role play the handoff, and then review what happened. And as the parent, we want to partner with our child. We don't want to take over the letter. You can support them and still leave room for ownership. And if access is genuinely being blocked for the letter, that's different. That's when the adult may need to step in. So self-advocacy doesn't mean leaving a child alone to fight for something they're legally entitled to receive.

32:37So if you remember nothing else, remember this cycle. what am I noticing right now then we need to name it what do I need and what would help then we need to practice it what words am I going to use let's rehearse them while I'm calm then we need to respond meaning I use the words the adult responds and then we learn from what happened. Then we repeat and grow and confidence gets built. So each cycle gives the student more information about themselves and more evidence that they can participate in solving the problem. So think back to Anthony at the beginning. He didn't use his extra time because he didn't want to be the only one who stayed.

33:26He didn't want to look different. The goal isn't simply that Anthony uses his extended time next time. And the bigger goal is that eventually Anthony doesn't need me, his parent, or another adult to help him on what to do. He can notice what he needs, name it, find the words, and trust himself enough to use them. One page, this one page advocacy letter can start the conversation. We're going to repeat it and then support practice builds the skill.

34:05So that's really what I want you to leave with. When a student doesn't speak up, I don't want our first question to be, why didn't you just ask? Although I know it can be very tempting. I want us to wonder what got in the way, like use curiosity to get to the core of the matter. Did they know what they needed? Did they have the words? Were they worried about standing out? Did they know when to ask? Have they ever practiced it before? Remember, self-advocacy is a skill. We can teach it and we can practice it. And every supported attempt makes the next one a little bit more possible. So thank you so much.

34:46As I mentioned, the one-page advocacy letter is under event resources and the captions. And I'd love to hear your questions. Wonderful. Thank you so much, Brooke. That was such a comprehensive presentation. And before we get to all of the questions, I do want to highlight a few of the wonderful suggestions that came in when we asked today's attendees to share an example of an accommodation or a self-advocacy strategy that's made a difference for their child or their students. And we had some really great ones to kick things off. Amazing. Moving around my windows here. First, I wanted to highlight, we had a teacher who, this is one of the more brilliant ideas I have heard.

35:43She said with her middle school students, she keeps the last page or two of the test and the child would come back at a later time to finish. But this way, the students, they're successful. They complete that section and they aren't the last ones to turn in the exam. And she actually measured and saw a 10 % increase in grades from her students. I love that. Isn't that so smart? That's amazing. I used to use that for kids who were overwhelmed with the amount of questions or anxious about how many pages were on the test. So every time they finished a page, they would have to go and turn it into the teacher.

36:22But I never even thought about that as a self-advocacy skill. That's awesome. Yeah. And then another, this is more of a strategy from a parent who said that they practice the 24-hour rule. if they feel like they need to provide feedback to teachers or coaches, they write the email. And then they wait 24 hours. And she said she doesn't, sometimes she deletes the email. Sometimes she just edits the explanation to make it more clear. I also love that one. I love that. I do that. I do that when I'm mad at night too. That's where I'm more emotionally dysregulated, writing the email, do a send later, and then setting an alarm the next morning to remember whether or not to send it.

37:11So it feels like it's being sent in the moment. Yes. Yes. Love it. And then lots of ideas for accommodations that have worked for kids. So I'll share a few of them because I know everyone's always looking for fresh ideas and ones that have worked in the real world. This one was the teacher created a special pass for the child to take a lap around the school indoors for a movement break. And yeah, and then a common one was the being a special messenger and delivering things to other classrooms also as a movement break. We have, oh, this one I liked, providing sort of an easy read list of accommodations for the student to keep in their binder, just as a reminder.

38:04Easy. I like that. Helpful. And this one's providing frequent positive feedback to help the student identify the ideal behaviors. Yes. And making it really specific. And that helps so in so many different ways, right? It gives them the feedback, the knowledge of what they need to be looking for, but it also boosts their confidence because we know they're already used to the negatives coming in. So definitely a win-win on that. Yeah. Anytime you can make something more specific and tactile, um, helps everyone. Um, and then this one, this would be a dream for most of us, but, um, an actual special education advisory class, they said it meets four times a week, like a study hall, but with extra support for organizing, planning and decision-making.

39:03I mean, it's like an executive function. Yeah. I used to do that for, uh, when I was a co-teacher, we would have one class every day for both, um, cohorts of special education kids in our co-teaching. And it was amazing because it gave them that extra touch, the reinforcement, the study guide, managing the executive functions, not only in the class, but outside where they don't feel like they're being seen. Yes. Yes. I think we all can say we wish we had something like that before heading off to high school or to college. The last accommodation that I will share, um, it's just one of my favorites ever riding a stationary bike while taking a French test.

39:54Oh, right. Yeah. Yeah. It's amazing. Um, it's amazing. Yeah. Maybe that's what we need to go to the gym and get a stationary bike and bring her test. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So now, um, now we will get into some of the questions. Um, and the first one was a parent, I think a parent asking, um, if you can recommend, um, a strength inventory that students could use for identifying. Yeah. Because it's often hard to start from scratch there. Yeah. Yep. It's in the one page advocacy letter. there's a link to it. And so if you download it, you can get it, but they do have a via strengths inventory for youth.

40:42So it shows how to get to there on the paper. Wonderful. Okay. So worth spending some time there for sure. Okay. The next question came from a parent who said that her child starts out with a stressed nervous system. And if she doesn't know something, it gets worse. She immediately says, I don't know. How would you suggest getting her to answer those questions, those, you know, not why questions when she's already coming in on edge? Okay. Don't ask her. I know this is going to sound stupid, but don't ask her the questions when she's coming on edge. Give her some sort of break when she comes home.

41:27Give her a snack. Have her do something that calms down. I know you're not going to want to hear this, but some parents will put their kids on video games because it calms down their nervous system. Whatever it is that's healthy that can slow it down. Because think about it. When they're at school, they're trying to keep it all together, especially girls who are masking. They don't want to be seen as different. And they come home and now they're letting it all out. so we need a transition before we start asking those questions and what I would do is maybe on the weekend when she's not as dysregulated have a conversation a collaborative problem-solving conversation about hey I know and I can tell that it's school's really hard and like it feels yuck when you come home and all you want to do is just kick up your feet and relax.

42:26I get it. So you're validating, which is what we talked about before. Are there some strategies that we can use together to co-regulate? So maybe the bridge is co-regulating with her and actually doing some deep breathing or whatever, but doing it at a time where she's not dysregulated and having that conversation where she can own what the tools of her calm kit might be before you start asking questions. Very good. Yeah. Co-regulation is key to so many things in life. Okay. Another question from a parent, any tips for a very quiet, inattentive ADHD type child who finds it hard to make their point in the moment because their working memory is a little weaker.

43:19Also, they get overwhelmed and they feel bulldozed by louder children. Yeah. For a child like that, I would be very careful about making verbal self-advocacy of the goal. So if they're quiet, they forget information easily and they get overwhelmed when other kids are louder or faster. think about the executive function load we just talked about today they have to hold on to their thought they have to organize it find the words decide when to jump in and then actually initiate before someone else takes over the conversation so as a parent i've reduced that load maybe they write down their first point and then maybe they have a sentence starter like i want to add something or can I finish my thought?

44:07And perhaps the teacher knows to give them a little extra wait time or intentionally come back to them. So I would practice those situations again, outside of the moment that it's happening, maybe role play, what happens when another child interrupts them and give them one or two phrases they can retrieve without having to invent language under pressure. So the goal isn't to make the quiet child louder. It's to give them a way to make sure their voice still has a place in the room. That's wonderful.

44:45Okay. A lot of questions from parents of teenagers. And you can see where I'm going with this. Yes. One was that there, the child feels embarrassed, even using phrases like, I feel like I would benefit from. And they just can't get over that. As you said, like that, the visibility barrier. Ideas for those teenagers who really feel extra sensitive to standing out. Yeah, that's where this letter comes in because perhaps they don't need to use that accommodation phrase in the moment. So they send the letter to the teacher ahead of time and then maybe you follow up with a meeting after the first few weeks just to kind of talk about what's going on and what comes up for him or her or them.

45:50And then there's an agreement with the teacher that the student doesn't even need to come to class before the test. They actually go to a room and the room is discussed the day before. So there's no standing out. There's no looking different.

46:09yeah that's that's a great idea yeah you just start out in a different spot or um again there's that private signal you can use there's a um maybe there's a a signal that they know they maybe have a post-it that they write they put it on their desk and then once the teacher sees that posted, it could be a certain color. They walk past the desk at the time that they can, and then they look at it. Something like that. Okay. Along a similar line, we got this question, which is very relatable, that it's not always easy for any child or teenager in this case to see the value in practicing these self-advocacy skills, like especially with that focus on short-term rewards.

47:03Do you have ideas for how to explain these benefits in a way that will feel tangible? Yeah, that is really hard. And sometimes, unfortunately, the student ends up not using the accommodation and then they get rid of the accommodation on the IEP or the 504 because they're not using it. So that is a very real thing. So I just want to acknowledge that for a second. As the parent or the coach working with that student, you might want to ask them again when they're regulated to recall a time where they did or they felt they did well and what tool was used to make them feel that and what is their goal in school like what is the greater purpose what are their values what are their strengths that's also in the self-advocacy letter that connects to the accommodation.

48:08They might actually not need the accommodation in reality, but if they're doing worse than they can because they're not using it, then we need to think about having that conversation of like, when can you think of a time you did better? What were you using? Were you using this accommodation? What was happening? What was the environment like? Did you feel safe? What can make you feel safer with this. And ultimately those older kids, it's giving them the choice because we ultimately cannot control whether or not they use it.

48:51Which is frustrating. It's very frustrating. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. We were talking before we got started today that where you are, school has been in session for almost a month or a month already. And we had someone here today saying, yep, their kids have been in school for a month and they feel like it's been a rocky start. And they're looking for ideas. She said, I worry that, you know, the damage has been done in forming the relationship with the teacher. What would you suggest at this point one month in? Okay. I don't think the damage is done, right? There's way more. I know it might feel that way and it might have felt that way in the past based of projection sensitivity, or it might also be real.

49:45What I would suggest is to have a meeting with the teacher and not talk about the gripe, but talk about like, Hey, I want to, again, like I wrote this letter. I want to share it with you. Here are all of the interests of Johnny. Here is what he's passionate about. I know maybe we got off to a rough start, but he wants more. He loves blah, blah, blah. How can we work together to create that environment for him? I know it's hard with a hundred students or however many students, but he really cares about how he does and he wants more for himself.

50:29Yeah. Yeah. Using the letter as the entree rather than what's happened in the first few weeks. I always like using like the least restrictive action, just like the least restrictive environment when you're meeting with a teacher. So don't bring in a team right away, like the principal, the guidance counselor, whatever, meet with the teacher, talk, real talk for a second, see what you can come up with collaboratively first. And then yes, use the letter. It's never too late. It's never too late. Um, so you mentioned the impact of, um, I believe in your introduction, I'm talking about, uh, the three roadblocks that stand in the way of kids asking for help.

51:20And I believe you talked about rejection sensitive dysphoria. I will mention it ever so quickly for those who are not familiar with it. It's not a formal diagnosis, but it is an experience that is common to people with ADHD where even perceived criticism or real criticism feels almost physically painful. And I think maybe some people are nodding their heads out there. And so that is a concern for some parents as they begin to have this conversation with their kids. They want to be sensitive to the fact that criticism or even perceived criticism is distressful, distressing to them. Do you have ideas for how to broach this conversation with a child who's sensitive to criticism?

52:13And would you say watching this webinar might, you know, the replay might be good for some kids. Definitely can in the sense of learning how much executive function, what the experience is for other students with bullying and rejection sensitivity or rejection sensitive dysphoria specifically for ADHD, 100%. One thing is always to start with awareness, just like we did in this webinar. Start with awareness. is what is RSD, rejection-sensitive dysphoria? Annie, you just shared it. Share it in the form that the kid likes. Maybe it's a clip on social media. Maybe it's a page of a magazine, or maybe it's verbal.

52:56From there, you can go and separate the thought from the fact. And that's really hard because very often, that they perceive the thought as a fact and reality. So there's different tools out there where you can, and I call it the dread loop escape plan, where you can talk about a condition, like what happened? What is the event that happened? Then what's the negative thought that you have? Oh, they don't like me or I'm bad at writing, right? We did that in the Y funnel. then from there after the thought what's the story that you're creating based on that thought i'll never be liked okay so from there we want to come up with another thought that's realistic and it's not the complete opposite so maybe it's that in the moment they didn't like what i had to say instead of they didn't like me.

53:58Right. And I'm working on loving myself. That's the new story that they're going to create. So it's reframing the thought to a thought that they believe, which is not far off. And then coming up with a different story to it as well. And if that doesn't work, you could also use the Y funnel. What was the name of that again? The loop? Dread loop escape plan. I'm happy to send it to you. It's something I created as a resource. I don't know if it's too late to do that, but. Never too late. Never too late, exactly. You took the words out of my mouth. No, we would love that. That sounds like an actionable way because often the opposite is out of reach emotionally and mentally, but yeah, I love that.

54:48um and also one other thing is like when the the sorry not to cut you off but no no if you have a child who's in the red zone they're dysregulated you're not going to be able to do that dread loop escape plan then so I highly recommend again everything that we're doing is in a regulated state so not in a moment of dysregulation when they're dysregulated we We want to validate their feelings, even if we don't agree with it. And then we want to co-regulate. And once they're eventually in a regulated state, whether it's 24 hours, like that letter or, you know, an hour or five minutes, whatever it is, that's when you can actually use these tools.

55:34That's an important point. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

55:39Another, along with RSD, we know that justice sensitivity can be more prevalent in students with ADHD. And a parent wrote in to say that their student feels they have an accommodation of being able to make corrections on their work, but they feel it's cheating and that they don't need the help. um any suggestions for that student yeah that's really hard and it's the same argument with ADHD and taking medication or getting behavioral support right you could say oh well they shouldn't get accommodations they shouldn't get support they shouldn't get medication but like again it's the cliche example of well if you can't see why wouldn't you give yourself glasses right Why wouldn't you have some sort of visual tool to help?

56:35It's assistive technology in that point. So what I would say is perhaps come up with examples with your child of other accommodations that people might use for either a physical handicap or a disorder that they have and how that impacts them positively. And then if needed, they could also speak to another person, maybe within the school system, there's another kid, like a mentor or someone also with ADHD that they can talk about those struggles of like, oh, I don't want to stand out. And that older kid or that mentor could be like, yeah, but like I use it too. I used to get C's, now I'm getting B's.

57:29Um, it's just leveling the playing fields. Great. A couple of questions today about the ideal age to begin these conversations. Eight. I mean, I have a four and a half year old and yeah, there's no self-advocacy letter coming from her at this point to the teacher, but we still talk about what she's interested in, what her favorite color is, what she doesn't like, what food she likes. So all of these things are building her awareness, right? Before self-advocacy. And self-advocacy isn't just in school. Self-advocacy is at home too, giving the student choice of what they're going to wear, how they're going to clean their room, you know, what snack they're going to have before they do dinner or sorry, before they do their homework or should they do their homework at night or in the morning.

58:27So we want to create more choices so they could build their executive functions at an early age. So it's never too early to have that conversation, but with the self-advocacy letter, I would say around the age of eight. Okay. You're going to love this question. Could the self-advocacy letter be used by adults as a letter to yourself and a personal problem solving tool when you're feeling overwhelmed? 100%. So I have this thing called the log of awesome. You might've heard of it before, maybe not. And I experienced rejection sensitive dysphoria a lot, especially when I'm dysregulated. I call it the ADHD disruption spiral.

59:08You're overwhelmed, you hyper-focus, you get depleted dopamine, you burn out, and then you get into that RSD and emotional dysregulation. So I have this thing called the log of awesome that when I'm regulated, I write down all of the things that I'm proud of myself, not because someone else said it, but like, I'm really proud that I did this thing or I am this person. And on the low executive function days when I'm emotionally dysregulated, I look at that and I feel like, okay, here's some logic to this feeling, right? Like I don't have to be in this mindset forever. I know there's better. So yes, you can actually use this self-advocacy letter for yourself.

59:55It's not just for students. Wonderful. We have so many comments from today's attendees that you should absolutely add to your log because people are just so appreciative and really feeling thankful that they came today and finding a lot of value in your insight and your strategies. So Brooke, your log of awesome just grew quite a bit. And I don't know where these comments are. So will I be able to see them later? We will share them. Okay. We will share them. Absolutely. And to those who asked, we will follow up with Brooke about the doom loop exercise. Yes. And share that with you as well afterward.

1:00:42word. Unfortunately, we'll follow up with an email. We have run out of time for questions today. There were so many more. So please know that if you submitted a question and we didn't get to it, that we do share your questions with lots of experts and we use those to seed every issue of Attitude Magazine. It's all based on what we're hearing from our community. So So if you would like to access today's event resources, you can visit AttitudeMag.com and search for podcast 622. The slides and recording, as well as those resources I mentioned, will be posted a few hours after the live webinar. And if you're listening in replay mode, just click on the episode description for those.

1:01:27We hope you know that our full library of Attitude webinars is available as a podcast called the ADHD Experts Podcast, available on most streaming platforms. So you can sign up to make sure you don't miss any webinars by visiting attitudemag.com slash newsletters. For now, thank you, Brooke, so much for this incredible webinar today. And thank you to everyone who joined us and contributed to our discussion. Thank you, Annie. Thank you, everyone, for being here. For more Attitude podcast and information on living well with attention deficit, visit AttitudeMag.com. That's A-D-D-I-T-U-D-E-M-A-G.com.

1:02:20Business is booming. Is your fulfillment ready for peak season? Switch to ShipStation now and handle more volume with confidence when it counts. ShipStation connects Shopify, Amazon, TikTok Shop, and over 200 more integrations with one platform that does it all. You can manage orders, sync inventory, track returns, all automatically. Everything your operation needs, all in one place. Right now, qualified shippers get a real dedicated person to get you set up and switched over for free. So when peak season hits, you're ready to go. Switch today at shipstation.com code audio.