Q&A: What $2.4 Million at 37 Actually Looks Like (It's Not What You Think)

22:45Yeah. I would absolutely contribute to a backdoor Roth. See if your job offers a Roth 401k. See if a mega backdoor is available to you. See how much you can use this within your tax planning to make some Roth conversions.

23:04Paula Pant:I think the game on how much you do that though, depends on when do you want to leave work and rely on this money. Then I take a harder look at that brokerage account at that point. And I start thinking about strategies around creating those early income streams. Right. Yeah. Well, in addition to not knowing what his monthly spend is, the other piece that we don't know is, again, does he want to retire at 50 or at 80? And yeah, I keep using those as two extremes, illustrative extremes. But the reason I say it is because Brewster, if you do want to retire prior to the age of 59 and a half, then you'll want to use a chunk of this money to fund the pre 59 and a half bucket.

23:49So if, and I don't know if you want to retire early or not, but if you do, this is a great opportunity to earmark a piece of this for the money that you will spend prior to the age of 59 and a half. There's one more thing I want to talk about, Joe. Well, two more things. One is estate planning, because you have significant assets. Currently, you have no, that I'm aware of, designated heirs or beneficiaries. So I think one of the things you're going to want to think about is, if something were to happen, where would you want your money to go? You know, are there particular charities that you want to highlight?

24:29So estate planning is one thing. The other, be very conscious about what is considered separate property and what is considered community property and be extremely careful in terms of commingling. We had a family law attorney named Aaron Thomas on our show, and we'll link to that show in the show notes. inheritance. Inheritances are often considered separate property, except what often happens is that people will accidentally co-mingle that separate property. And by virtue of doing so, they will turn it into community property. So if you pay joint expenses, pay a joint mortgage, if you title your fiance's name on accounts holding the inheritance, those can turn separate property into community property.

25:19And what happens oftentimes is that people do that without being aware of the fact that they're doing that. So you will want to work with a family law attorney and design a prenup that explicitly identifies how you want this designated. Because there are a lot of people who don't realize that they have accidentally turned separate property into, they've commingled what was once a separate property. It's like a hidden tripwire. Yeah, exactly. Then you go through a divorce and divorce is hard enough, but that gets compounded by an added layer of ugliness when money that was passed down to you from a deceased relative ends up going to your ex, who at that point is with somebody else.

26:08And I'm not saying that that's going to happen to you, but that has happened to millions and millions of people. And that is something that you should be aware of. And the pushback that I get on this often is, well, we're not going to get divorced, so it's not applicable to us, which is what every married couple says. My response to that is, you have a prenup already. The prenup that you currently have are the laws of the state of California. So do you want the prenup that has been assigned to you by the state? Like, do you want your government assigned prenup or do you want to design something that is true to both of you and that reflects the values, the principles, the priorities, the positions that both of you hold?

26:57You know, you personalize everything else for a wedding. You personalize the napkins and the gift baggies that you give to the guests. Like why not personalize? You have a prenup one way or the other. You either have a government assigned default prenup or you personalize one. So why not personalize it in the same way that you personalize all of your other wedding related things, the rest of your wedding? Yeah.

27:25Paula Pant:The rest of your life. yeah yeah but we'll link to the interview with aaron thomas it was an excellent one joe you got anything else i don't know i think um i still want to know it's just what the actual goals are i i can't get around the thing that's going to create an eye roll for long-time listeners which is begin with the end in mind creates the eye roll because he's Joe you say it on every episode every episode all I got to do is get in King Lear and Sun Tzu and we'll have all the bingo the whole bingo oh I can't forget uh the emith too oh yeah yeah total total bingo total Joe bingo for all of the long-time listeners well thank you Brewster for the question we're going to take a break to hear from the sponsors who make the show possible.

28:19When we return, we're going to hear from someone who is having a baby and needs to negotiate with her employer about going to part-time. And that's coming up next.

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32:11Welcome back. Our next question comes from Anonymous. Hi, Paul and Joe. This is Anonymous from Pennsylvania. Here's some background. I'm 35, married, and we currently save about 40 % of our income. We don't have a specific fine number or date. Instead, we're focused more right now on setting ourselves up to have flexibility by not having a big mortgage or other fixed expenses. I currently work full-time at a big company. The context of my job performance is relevant to my questions. I'm a top performer. I was recently promoted, and my manager is already fast-tracking me for the next promotion.

32:48I enjoy my job and am well-suited for it. It's fully remote, has flexible hours, and good work-life balance. I'm pregnant with our first child, and as long as things go smoothly, I'll take a four-month fully paid maternity leave from next January to April. We don't want to send our baby to daycare, and I know I don't want to return to work full-time at the end of maternity leave. I do enjoy working, though, so I could definitely see myself returning to full-time once the child is school-age. However, I'd like to try to negotiate returning to this job with a halftime schedule. My role can be easily split in half, and I'd have significant flexibility around my hours, given the nature of my job, so I could coordinate childcare with my husband who also works a flexible remote job.

33:31While I'm very excited to have this special time with our child, I think having some regular work would be a good fit for me. It would also help us maintain our savings momentum, and I'd still have full benefits working halftime, which would be good because my insurance is much better than the options through my husband's job. I'm confident I could find other part-time work if they say no, but trying to find a new flexible part-time remote job while sleep-deprived and recovering postpartum would be much harder than returning to a job I already know how to do well and efficiently. I have two questions.

34:03Number one, how and when should I approach my manager with a halftime proposal? If the decision were just up to my direct leadership, I'm confident they'd say yes. The potential hurdle is the highly bureaucratic central HR team, and I honestly have no idea if they'd approve a part-time arrangement for someone in my position. In terms of timing, my annual bonus of about$15 ,000 will be paid out in the middle of my leave. My strong lean is to wait until after that bonus hits the bank to propose this part-time proposal, but I'd love your take on the optimal timing and strategy. Number two, how should we allocate our savings between now and next spring while we await an answer?

34:46Our savings every month are currently spent pretty evenly between retirement accounts and a taxable brokerage. Should we keep aggressively funding retirement and the brokerage or pivot to building a larger cash cushion? Just in case HR says no, and I either take a full career pause or take several months to find other part time work. We typically keep about four to five months of expenses in cash, and we also have about 350K in brokerage accounts we can tap into for true emergencies. Thank you both so much for taking my questions. I hope others can benefit from them.

35:16Paula Pant:Love this question, Paula. Should we kick off by giving her a name? We've been leaving the name to the middle of the answer. We don't want to have another, hey, buddy, situation going on. at the risk of naming both of our people today. I think I have one, Paula. All right, let's hear it. I've been watching this cool show on Netflix called The Night Agent. And if you watch season one of The Night Agent, you might be going, oh, it wasn't that good. It was okay. It was decent, but it was good enough that I watched season two, which was really good. And now they're in season three. Usually, as you know, shows, you know, the second version is a little worse.

35:58Paula Pant:The third version they're just cashing in because so many people are watching this show has had a different trajectory it's really really been good so the night agent big thumb up but there is a woman she said she's a top performer and there is a woman who's a reporter who's a top performer who early in these early episodes i can't wait to see where her story arc goes because she's kind of taking the bull by the horns and she is she's strategizing she's helping in all the best ways I don't want to give up any spoilers because this is a spoiler heavy show, but her name, the character name is Isabel DeLeon.

36:36Paula Pant:So I think maybe we call her Isabel. All right. Isabel. Beautiful name. Isabel, in terms of timing, I agree. Wait until the bonus hits your account before you start any negotiation. I also, and Joe, I'm curious what you think about this. I am a fan of her negotiating before she returns from leave. So I would enter into the negotiation a few weeks prior to when her leave ends, assuming that she has received her bonus by that time. Yeah, I like that too. I think being away makes the heart grow fonder of people as well. Yeah, yeah. Absence makes the heart grow fonder. Yeah, trying to train somebody new to do what Isabel is doing, I think is always a struggle for any person.

37:26Paula Pant:And, you know, employers forget that the amount of money they have to spend training a new person for a role is a huge expense. And managers who are new managers kind of view that flippantly. But man, having good top performers worth its weight. Yeah. Onboarding is no joke. Recruiting, hiring, like screening, onboarding. I mean, it's a huge, huge time suck and therefore money suck. So here's how I would frame it. This is not a personal ask. It is not a personal request. It is a continuity solution that you are bringing to your employer because you are going to be available to help train and guide whoever takes on the other half of your role.

38:16That's a benefit to them. you are going to be the institutional knowledge, the person who has already done the job and knows how to do the job. And because you'll be duplicating yourself by virtue of mentoring and training this new person who takes on the other half of your role, great. Now they no longer have single source failure. So one of you is sick. Now there are two of you who will be trained in how to do this. So this makes your employer more resilient. It gives your employer more continuity. That's how you want to frame it. These are all of the benefits to them. Don't talk at all about why it's a benefit to you.

38:57They don't care. The conversation is entirely why this is a benefit to them. The other thing that you want to do is build a presentation that quantifies your value to the company and document every way that you have either increased revenue or decreased expenses, you'll want to show them why replacing you, entirely replacing you, is going to be a lot more expensive. What's it going to cost in recruiting, in onboarding, in inefficiencies during that training period? You want to build the case as to why keeping you part-time is going to be a lot more cost-effective than losing you entirely. And cite that case with as many facts, numbers, data as possible, either internally from inside of your company or by using well-respected studies.

39:54Paula Pant:And the emphasis here is on what benefits the company. You want to leave with what benefits the company, not what benefits you. The cool thing about this, I worked with clients that were in very rigid, very staid organizations in Detroit. These are old automotive companies, right? Been doing things the same way forever. Not very open to change. Paula, I saw when I was a financial planner, two people do exactly what Isabel's talking about doing. Wanted to come back, wanted to come back part-time. And guess what happened in both cases? They said, heck yeah, we would rather have you partially than that.

40:39Paula Pant:Listen, if we can get you part-time, but we don't think we can get you full-time, then yeah, we'll take you part-time. And then the fact that you're going to help train, I love that because then maybe we get two people. And there's this boss's feeling that two people sharing a role, they might actually get higher productivity because both people might overdo the 20 hours where in 40 hours, you've got to take some breaks. So if they're really thinking about productivity, they might think, wow, I might get more productivity from two 20-hour people than I will from one full-time person. Right. Well, there are studies out there that show that for knowledge workers in particular, most people have about four to five good hours a day in them, like good focused hours.

41:27I mean, you look at people who do deep work, writers, programmers, like podcasters. I was going to say editors, but people who have to do deep, focused, concentrative work, most people will say that if they can get three great hours a day, that's a win. A lot of writers, novelists will say, you know, like I had three really good hours of writing in me per day. And the rest of the time they're doing administrative work. They're taking walks, they're drawing inspiration, they're listening to things. All of that is to say that even if you've got two people and each person is working 20 hours. If you've got 20 focused hours, highly focused hours, that can often be more cost effective to your employer than 40 hours where you're like a little bit sloppy, not as an affront, but like that's just how human energy waxes and wanes throughout the day.

42:27Paula Pant:And as an aside, I don't want to oversell this too much to my employer because when you decide to go back to 40 hours, you sold them, oversold them on the fact that me part-time is better. We don't want to go too far. You also don't want to imply that the people who work there who are full-time are being, you know what I mean? Yeah. Right. Now, we also had this where I worked at American Express. We had this fantastic employee at American Express who did not love the role she was in. This is a little bit different thing than what Isabel's talking about, but I think that it's important for the community.

43:01Paula Pant:She wanted to stay with American Express. She saw a need at the company. Paula, she went to her boss and just created a new role. And then she negotiated her salary. She made the new role work. And now, as far as I know, knowing people that still work in that organization, that role is still a role in the company. But she just went, you know what? We need this. I'm the perfect person for it. I think this will add X, Y, and Z. She created a new position. So even for state HR, I guess the through line here is she talked about state HR. American Express is a company that's been around for a long time.

43:40Paula Pant:General Motors is a company that's been around for a long time. I've seen this work in many state organizations where they actually got this through. So I think the chances of this happening are maybe better than she thinks. Yeah. A few other tips. If this would be appropriate given your company culture, and only you can answer that because only you know your company culture, but if it would not be overstepping, then I might even go as far as write up sample or mock job descriptions that outline the deliverables, the scope of work, the responsibilities, the qualifications. If you were to take your role and separate it into two different roles, do their job for them, right?

44:24Because if they were to turn this into two roles, they would be tasked with the responsibility of coming up with that separation of scope and those new job descriptions. Take that off their plates. Do that in advance or create at least a sample or a mock-up in advance. I mean, again, this depends entirely on your company culture. Some companies would love that. Some companies would see that as overstepping. So if your company culture is the type of place that would be amenable to something like that, then that's an option. Because what that does, A, it decreases their workload. And B, it creates specificity around deliverables and outcomes and the KPIs that would be used to measure that everyone would be held to.

45:11It creates clarity. And the greater clarity that you can create, the better.

45:18Paula Pant:Would you like to pivot to the second half of her question then? Yeah, let's do it. So allocating savings, this is an interesting question. I love the fact, Isabel, that you're solving for flexibility. You want as much flexibility as you can get. And for all the Afford Anything community, we often put things into little buckets trying to optimize. But the best thing to optimize for is this, especially when the world looks cloudy like Isabelle's does right now, making sure that you've got enough flexibility is good. So I don't know about your take, Paul. I'd love to hear it, but here's mine. Number one, my impetus would be she's deciding between part-time income or no income.

46:03Paula Pant:Um, so beefing up the short-term money, I think makes a lot of sense. Putting money in a place she can get at it makes sense, which means lowering the amount into the 401k. But before I make that move, I want to know what the impact is going to be. I just want to know ahead of time. It might not change my strategy, but that's data that doesn't take a long time to get and might. So more data is always better. I would look at, I'm putting X amount in my retirement account now and my 401k now. If I back that down, I back it down. The first number I'd look at is what is the match? Just get the free money, right?

46:44Paula Pant:So if I draw this back to the match line, how does that impact my retirement vision, my retirement goal? And if it doesn't materially change it, then that would be what I would want Isabel to do. Oh, Isabel, I did want to commend you. I meant to say this at the beginning. I wanted to applaud the 40 % savings rate. What an incredible savings rate. I don't have much to say on allocating savings other than I love that she's got four to five months of expenses in cash. I would probably beef that up just a little bit, given that there are questions about employment duration on the horizon. So yeah, I would beef up the number of months of expenses kept in cash.

47:29But also, Isabel, you've got$350 ,000 in brokerage accounts. That gives you an in-case-of-dire-emergency break glass bucket. Generally, you don't want short-term money invested, but you could, in-case-of-dire emergency that is there as well. So.

47:51Paula Pant:Well, and Paula, that's actually an interesting point that I hadn't considered, which is why I love us kind of bouncing these off each other, which is once we know what is in those brokerage accounts, what actually the investments are, there might be some investments that could move fairly easily, which means that there then is no case to back down the 401k at all. One other final, final point that I want to make, Isabel, is before you go into that negotiation. So there's this concept. I teach the students in my negotiation course, it's called Bat Nuts, Best Alternative to a Negotiated Agreement.

48:34And it's basically like - Well, I wasn't sure where that was going.

48:41Paula Pant:I was, what are you teaching in these sessions, Paula? But I like this. Yeah, continue. I'm sorry. But your baton is basically like, if this doesn't work out, what happens next? And so I want you to think about if they say hard no, would you return full time temporarily while you're searching for an alternate job? or would you ask for an extension of your leave? In the event that they say no, what would you do? Like, what is that alternative? And if you go into the conversation knowing what your best next alternative is, what is your ideal plan B, then that gives you mentally, internally, a benchmark to compare whatever offer they're making.

49:36You know what to benchmark it against because you know what your ideal plan B is. So have that in mind before you go into the conversation. All right, well, thank you, Isabel. And please call us back and let us know what happens. We're going to take one final break to hear from the sponsors who make the show possible. And when we return, we are going to hear from a caller who has a comment on a previous question and some very, very good advice for that caller. That's up next.

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51:46Welcome back. Our final question today comes from Tim.

51:52Paula Pant:Hi, Paul and Joe. My name's Tim, and I'm calling in response to a question you answered on episode 722 from an anonymous caller you guys called Jane. Jane's a federal employee with a mandatory retirement age at 57, which in all likelihood means she's a federal law enforcement officer, such as myself. Jane reported being constantly focused on her numbers and neurotically checking her account balances, even though she's on really solid footing and still years from retirement. You guys usually offer really great insights in response to callers' questions, but I actually laughed out loud when Paula told Jane that it could be the looming mandatory retirement age of 57 that's contributing to her stress and lack of peace.

52:30Paula Pant:As a fellow federal agent, I can tell you that the number of my colleagues that see mandatory retirement age as a source of stress is approaching zero. 95 % or more of us plan to retire close to the earliest possible moment and then immediately turn around and begin a second career while simultaneously drawing your federal pension. A much smaller number of us plan to completely walk away from full-time work when they retire from their federal work. Like Jane, that's me, though I'm much closer to the finish line. Like Jane, I spent years maxing my TSP, building up my Roth accounts, and tracking my expenses.

53:04Paula Pant:So here's what I think could be contributing to Jane's sense of stress. It's not the mandatory retirement age. It's the opposite. It's her minimum retirement age. In her case, she knows she has no choice but to keep working to age 53. In my case, it's age 50. I know I've done everything right. I've checked and rechecked my numbers a thousand times. I could go tomorrow, except I can't. If I were to resign my position before I'm eligible to retire, millions of dollars of benefits go up in smoke. From what Jane said, she's on the same path. She knows without a doubt that she'll be financially ready to retire, probably by the time she's 45, but the government says she has to stay until 53 or she'll pay a stiff penalty.

53:44Paula Pant:So in terms of advice for Jane, I'd say she's early enough in her career that she really needs to focus on finding rewarding work within her agency. find a mission you believe in and throw yourself into it probably for the next 10 years hopefully her agency allows for some degree of job mobility alternatively she's also junior enough that walking away at this point and changing careers wouldn't be as crushing as it would be for someone like me with only two years to go i was lucky to land in a job that i love for the first 15 to 20 years of my career the last couple years have been hard i'm no longer in love with my job i can see the finish line, but there's no way to speed it up.

54:24Paula Pant:So I took what little control I could. I stepped down out of a supervisor job. I got out of management and went back to the field to finish out my time. Even though I'm no longer in love with my career on a daily basis, I know in the big picture, I'm proud of the work that I've done. And when I can finally walk away, I'll do so confident that I'm ready for what comes next. I love the clarity there, Paula, because for 99.9 9 % of the world, things are one way, but I love the fact that Tim can give us some insight. So, so when he, when he said, I laughed at first, I was like, well, wait a minute, how are we to know?

55:06Paula Pant:But then that's exactly why he's laughing. We would have no idea that they're in the 1 % of the world where it's not that it, it isn't that I'm, I'm getting out too soon. It's that I'm, I kind of have these handcuffs. So it goes back to what we were saying about company culture. Yeah. Every company has a distinct, when I say company, I mean every organization, every group of people has a distinct culture. Yeah. It's super clarification, Tim. Does that change what you said to Jane though at all? Well, I think the common thread between minimum retirement age and mandatory retirement age, I think the common thread is lack of personal agency.

55:53That's incredibly stressful. And Tim himself also, you said something to the effect of, I took control in the way that I could. It was when you were describing your decision to step away from management and go back into the field. you are exercising personal agency. You are exercising a degree of control in a situation in which you lack that control. And I think the situation that causes stress is lack of control over your life, lack of personal agency over your life. That's the common thread between the two. But thank you, Tim. I love the advice that you gave, which is find a mission you believe in.

56:35And that's beautiful advice. And I wholeheartedly support that. Find a mission that you believe in because that's what's going to make this time meaningful.

56:46Paula Pant:You know, we hear a lot about company culture and about what company culture is like. CEOs like to talk about company culture. I spoke with a gentleman who was in charge of company culture at Cisco Systems for a long time, Ashley Goodall. He and another gentleman, Marcus Buckingham, wrote a piece a few years ago that blew up the work world on Harvard Business Review. Everybody read it. Everybody was talking about it. In fact, so much that they wrote a book about it. But Ashley's whole position here, Paula, is that corporate culture is baloney. The CEO talks about corporate culture. It's salesmanship.

57:29Paula Pant:your corporate culture truly is the five or six people that you work with every day, people you have lunch with, your direct boss, maybe your boss's boss to some degree. But those few people that allow you to make the widget to consult with the client, to do whatever the job is that you do every day, that is your culture. Which means that what, and the reason I bring it up is because Tim said that he was able to change his corporate culture by moving to an area that he believed in, to a job that he wanted to do. And I think that's really important that we see often, especially in the financial independence retire early community, people get really excited about retire early because they think that that's unicorns and rainbows.

58:18Paula Pant:And yet, Paula, with what you and I do, talking to experts in the area of retirement, for a lot of people, it's not unicorns and rainbows because we haven't thought enough about it. We haven't done the homework to know what that culture actually should be for us. We have all these preconceived ideas, which we've talked about in previous episodes. A lot of them are wrong, are completely wrong about what a successful retirement really looks like. So I think finding that meaningful work and changing your corporate culture is a big step toward maybe getting rid of some of the angst that Jane was feeling.

59:01So it's that Jim Rohn quote about you become the average of the five people that you spend the most time with, but the five people that you spend the most time with at your organization, whatever organization, whether it's a private company or a government organization, the five people that you spend the most time with, that is the culture that you live in on a day-to-day basis.

59:24Paula Pant:And even on a more colloquial basis, I had a great coach tell me this at one point in my career, and I've held it for the past 25 years, which is in any company, just beware clusters of misery. They are these people that get together in the break room, outside, they go to lunch together and all they do is bitch about the company. Whether you agree or disagree with this group of people, nothing good happens when you hang out with them. Nothing good happens. Either A, you hate your job more or B, your boss ends up hating you and these people. So nothing good happens. And almost every company, when you get to a certain size has a group of people.

1:00:07Paula Pant:Almost everybody listening to this or hanging out with us on YouTube is thinking about specific people right now that are the cluster of misery in their life. And I would say that applies to friend groups as well. It does. It does. Yeah, there are definitely some friend groups that are clusters of misery. There are definitely social circles. If you have a very large family, there are people within your family. Just avoid the complainy pants. Yeah, optimism is so, so healthy. It is. The attitudes are contagious. You know? Yeah, and for that reason, I absolutely love, Tim, your point here. Yeah.

1:00:47Paula Pant:because, you know, truly what we want to do is find meaning in our life. And I think you, you really shone a light on a lot of that. Yeah. Thank you, Tim. I love your advice. Find a mission, find a mission that you believe in and get fully behind that mission and embrace that because that's, you know, there's research that shows that the three attributes that most closely correlate to a person's job satisfaction, three qualities are autonomy, mastery, and purpose. Find that mission that you fully believe in and embrace. That's purpose, right? And then when you have a strong purpose, you want to develop mastery.

1:01:28And mastery is a lifelong pursuit. You're never done, but you want to increasingly improve. So that's the mastery component of it. And then autonomy, as we just discussed, the sucky thing is to lose that personal autonomy, that personal agency over the timing of some of those major decisions in your life, but to the extent that you can have autonomy over who you work with or what you do or the mission that you get behind or maybe some of the day-to-day aspects of how you handle your job, right? The more that you can express autonomy within your work, the better, right? And so autonomy, mastery, purpose, that's going to, those correlate to job satisfaction more than anything else.

1:02:09Paula Pant:Paul always has the technical terms too. Sucky thing is the very technical piece of this whole argument. Yeah. But I think we all know exactly. Stay away from the sucky thing. Yeah. Stay away from things and people that suck. All right. Well, thank you, Tim. We will reach out to Jane and we'll send her an email and make sure that she hears this episode. Joe, I think we did it already. I can't believe we did this already. It flies by. Joe, where can people find you if They'd like to learn more. I mentioned Ashley Goodall. I talked to Ashley Goodall specifically about this. So if you want to dive in deeper with me and Ashley on corporate culture, go into your search engine and just put in Ashley Goodall, G-O-O-D-A-L-L.

1:02:55Paula Pant:And the title of that episode was Nine Lies About Work. It was a few years ago. We weren't numbering the episodes yet then, Paula. We realized that we needed to start numbering them. And so just put in Ashley Goodall, Nine Lies About Work, Stacking Benjamins, and you'll find it, we dive in. Haven't you had like 1800 episodes or something? Yeah. We're coming up on 1900 episodes. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. To think there was a time that you weren't numbering them. I know. I'm going back. I don't have that many fingers, Paula. Like figuring out what episode we're on took a little work. Jeez. You've done more than double the amount of episodes that we've done.

1:03:32And, and we think we've done a lot.

1:03:35Paula Pant:Started earlier and it's three days a week. Yeah. Yeah. That's bananas. You started earlier. I started in 2016 and you started earlier than that. It's funny. I have a friend, Glenn Hebert, who, if you love horses, you want to listen to his shows. His main show is called Horses in the Morning and they record it live on YouTube like we are now. And so you can hang out with them and it's like a morning drive radio show, but all about horses and they have this huge audience of horse lovers. Glenn started in, I believe, 2010 and they go five days a week. And the only reason I bring that up, Paula, is a horse lovers should listen to Glenn.

1:04:15Paula Pant:He's amazing. Him and the whole team over there at the Horse Radio Network. But second is because Glenn is one of the few people when I see him at podcasting conferences can look at me and almost 1900 episodes and go, oh, how cute. That's so nice. so you little starter when you get to my like I always look at Glenn and I'm like I am not worthy awesome well thank you all for joining us and thank you for being afforders being part of this community if you enjoyed today's episode please do three things first go to YouTube subscribe to our YouTube channel please youtube.com slash afford anything subscribe to our channel hit the little bell for notifications so you will get notified when we go live and you'll get notified about new videos as well.

1:05:01If you did not previously, from last week, we had this exercise called the four cornerstones. Joe, you led us through that exercise. We have a worksheet that walks you through the four cornerstones. If you haven't downloaded that yet, it's totally free. Go to affordanything.com slash cornerstone. That's affordanything.com slash cornerstone. You can download the cornerstones. You can map out today's money and tomorrow's money and put your money in its appropriate bucket and plan big picture how you want to think about your financial life. So again, affordanything.com slash cornerstone to download that free worksheet and follow along and fill it out and map out your money.

1:05:42So that's number two. And number three is share this with your friends and family.

1:05:48Paula Pant:Sounds good. That's a lot. I remember all three of them. Wow. Ooh, can you name them? I can name them. First of all, subscribe. And then number two is on YouTube to see these smash that subscribe button. Then number two is download the free for cornerstone sheet that I'd led you through. And then the third one, oh yeah. The URL afford anything.com slash cornerstone. There it is. And then the third one is share it with friends and family and your friends that are into horses. Nailed it. Well, thank you so much for tuning in. I'm Paula Pant. I'm Joe Salcihai. And we'll meet you in the next episode.