Amanda Frances on RHOBH: What You Didn't See on TV

25:41We do a call. I say, Hey, I don't have drama in my life. I don't know how to fight with people on TV. Like I don't, I don't really know that this is for me. Like I have a business. I think that's kind of outside my brand, outside my scope. And she's like, you have a great personality. You're funny. Let's film a casting tape. I said, okay, film the casting tape. They send it in like maybe a week goes by. I get an email that says, Hey, we want you to meet with the showrunner. Can you do a zoom with the showrunner? And I'm like, okay. And then a few days later it was like, can you come up to NBC universal and meet with the Bravo exec?

26:13And then a few days after that, it was like, Hey, you're the new housewife. This all happened in like two and a half weeks. That's crazy. What were you feeling in that process? Were you like, okay, I can always say no. Like, let me just see how it plays out. Or were you like, I was so weirdly conflicted and I still am like, it still is a story of my life that I can't fully make sense of, which is not typically how I feel. I feel like I can make meaning. I can understand things. I attracted this. Like typically this one's more confusing because it felt like I know I'm, I think I meant to be on TV.

26:43I've been manifesting that specifically for years. Okay. Fascinating. Yeah. I think I'm supposed to be on TV. I think I'm supposed to be on reality show. I think I'm supposed to let my personality shine on camera. I think all of this, but this show at this time with little kids, I thought I'd pursue this later. I thought I would start seeing what there was out there for me in TV world in a few years. But then that my good close friends have pointed out to me that in the months leading up, like particularly I had, I hosted a ladies Christmas brunch in the six months before this happened, And I was sitting there at brunch saying, I think I need to be on TV.

27:16Like, why am I not on TV yet? So like it was clearly in my awareness or something. Right. But I'm feeling conflicted because I'm like, I can't do this the way I think it's been done without knowing a lot about how it's been done. I don't think I can go be catty. I don't think I can go try to fix fights. I don't think I can go try to make people look bad. I don't think I have any of that in me. And so I say that like honestly to the people who are now hiring me. I'm like, I don't think. And they're like, be yourself. Bring what you bring. We're not asking you to bring what other people have brought.

27:46Bring what you bring. And so then I have this like weird internal conflict that really plagued me. And you guys might have insight through this as viewers. But I was like, is this show good for women? Is this show good for women? That's like the age old question. What am I contributing to something that I think is bad for women when my whole life's work has been being about being innately good for women? Like everything is built on believing in women and what they can achieve everything. Right. And so me and my therapist talked about it literally through filming. It was like this. It's like if I do it my way and I'm true to me and I try to be an example of something, am I good for women, even if I'm not sure if this thing's bad for women?

28:29But you don't know what they're cutting. You don't know what's showing up. You don't know the edits. You don't like I would have some meaningful conversations with people that wouldn't necessarily be in the main storylines. and I was like, I didn't know how to know what would make the cut. Now I think now I have a way better sense. Like you, you get a sense of like kind of how the show is made, but you don't, you don't at first. And so I'm like, is this going to make me like bad, make me like weird? Is this going to hurt me somehow? Like, am I going to be able to make a difference through this?

29:00Is this in vain? And then like, am I doing the right things with the opportunity? Am I doing good with, am I wasting the opportunity since I don't know what I'm doing and I don't know how to do it. All this was all happening the whole time. I think you can see it on my face sometimes like she is conflicted. Yeah. Where it's like, what did I get into? What did I get into? I can't believe you didn't know anything about it. I didn't. I didn't. And I felt that if I went and I deep dived, I wouldn't do it for sure. I wouldn't do it. And I felt like the opportunity was in front of me and I should not talk myself out of it or get more confused if I was going to do it.

29:37Right. And just go in as yourself. I went in as myself the best I could. Yeah. I think I think that came across, which is good because you can sometimes you can tell when people are like holding back or if they're put in for the record, I think the show kind of like strips that away. But you were like, I think, very you the whole time. Yeah. So how how did it how did it all play out then? Obviously, I think you probably said yes, because it was the answer was like, it's probably somewhat good for my career. I mean, anybody would think that we would have to hope it will be. We'll get to how it actually did.

30:08And you're like, this is we're going to go do it. We're going to go do it. So then what ends up happening as you're filming? Like, is your expectation so different than what actually ends up playing out? It is so much worse. Filming is so much worse than you could ever imagine. okay like just say you just flew to italy and it's 3 a.m and you're trying to wrap up a four hour dinner does that sound fun to you and they're bringing they're bringing up things like when they say let's talk about the call and i'm like now it's because like it's bedtime you're like sorry right now you want to talk about it now at bedtime like exhausted that's probably why they do it because you're just like yeah you've got no filter no gas in the tank i yeah may i mean maybe and maybe it's just, you know, we're still on America.

31:00Like, I don't, I don't, I don't know how, but the dinners are long and there's this weird thing that I think I would understand if I did it again, but it was hard on me at first. I'm like, okay, so we're sitting here, the food comes, we eat, we have pleasant small talk, and then someone goes into storyline and you and me were just talking about the carrots. And now you're, we were just talking about the carrots and now you're saying, Amanda, why didn't you cop up to it? Why did you put Kyle in the middle? And I'm like, We were just talking about the carrots. Can we go back to the carrots? So that was confusing to me.

31:33You can tell it was confusing to you, which is really, I've never had that experience watching Housewives before, you know, where you could tell almost every time where you were just like, can I sit? I just want to sit here today. Like, I think you say that out loud often where you're like, I really want to just manifest in a journal today. Yeah, can we just, can we like go off and set some intentions and get in the good vibe? No, absolutely. not. Even when I tried to bring vibes, they were like unavailable for vibe bringing. No vibes. No vibes here. Except for Erica, which was surprising. I know, but her and I had had other little conversations where she got what I did.

32:10She had spiritual teachers she's followed. She has a Kabbalah teacher she follows. That's a friend of mine. Like, so she had some kind of reference for, okay, there's personal development with some spirituality, with some mindset. She had more, she got it more than anyone else. But I also think some people are just kind of like trying not to get it, pretending they didn't get it, like just being really annoying, honestly. because I don't think it's that hard to understand, really. So, yeah, it would confuse me because I did it. Logically, I guess it makes sense. You have to hit the storyline at some point.

32:36But then it's like once the storyline's kind of, once we did all that, Sutton's like, so I'm playing tennis tomorrow. You could come over. We could play tennis. I'm like, okay, wait, so we're friends now. Yeah. It's very confusing. That is confusing. That is confusing. Well, because no one tells you what the game is. Yeah. Where are the rules? Right. I need rules. can someone write them out for me? Can I have a rule book, a playbook? Right. Do you think you got better on it as the season went on? Yes. OK. More used to like how the things go. Well, yes, I think I don't know if the viewers fully got this because, again, edits and you only get pieces of everything.

33:13But did you feel the turning point that I felt at the pizza dinner in Italy? Yes. That was my I when it comes up in conversations or came up in conversation with producers. I called it the ping pong pizza dinner because it's the night I learned to play ping pong. And what happened was someone on set said to me, Amanda, you're letting women who are smart or who are not as smart as you run the conversation. Why is someone not as smart as you running this conversation that you can intellectually dominate? And I said, because I don't understand the point. I didn't talk bad about Dorit. I know I didn't talk bad about her.

33:49I'm trying to explain that Kyle said, you know, the whole thing, you've heard it. Like I'm trying to explain to them what happened, what my intention was, and they don't care. And what am I going to do? I don't care what to read things about me. What else do you want me to do? And he was like, you're smarter. You are smart. You need to show up and be smart. That helped me. And then another producer on my way into the ping pong pizza dinner said, you just got to say whatever you have to say with energy. and I was like energy energy energy there it is people people try to get me mad they've been like don't you think Dorit's gunning for you and I'm like people were trying to get me to be mad about it and I don't feel mad about it because I don't really care I'm like why would I feel mad about this this is just stupid this is a waste of our lives you know I don't what are we doing for one another I but when he said bring energy I was like oh I'll say whatever I have to say I'll bring a bit of energy.

34:44And then I told myself, just play ping pong. Whatever comes at you, bounce it back with your intellect. You know how to do that. And so from ping pong pizza dinner on, I was like, I can stand up to you. I can stand up to you. I can do that without playing your games, without talking down to you, without being mean, without casting, without screaming, because I'm not going to do any of that. It's not how I play. And as you guys know, it's like you start your own business and you make your own world of your people. And my people all play by like nice rules, build each other up rules, be there for each other rules.

35:18So it was like I had stepped into a world that I hadn't seen since like high school, maybe touches through like grad school, but like a long time. And I was like, okay, I got to play your, I got to play a dirty game in a clean way that I can stand by. Yeah. But once I got it, then the reunion was easy and fun not like thrilling but I knew what to do yeah so yeah then I was like okay maybe I maybe I can't do you can do it yeah and you felt good about it I yeah so I made an affirmation early on when I didn't know what the fuck I was doing that was like I went in the end I went in the end I don't know how I don't know how but I have to win in the end this has to make sense in the end because it's not making sense in the middle right and I felt like that's exactly what happened by the final episodes by the reunion the comments turned the fans turned people were like she's been consensus this whole time she said she was emotionally regulated she is like how do you do that how by the end I was like okay I think I went in the end you did it yeah thanks you did it what a journey I know it's hard I don't like it I can imagine what was that your is that was that how you saw it as viewers that by the end you're like, oh, I get her kind of.

36:35And I feel like you found your voice by the end. Like at the beginning, it almost felt like you were not overwhelmed by them. But but like but it was like, I don't really want to do this. I didn't want to do it. And I was overwhelmed. And it is. Yeah. And it is a show. Right. It's a show. So like I related to you as a person, but also as a housewife. It's like, well, I mean, we need the housewife to be like, you don't have to flip a table over. But obviously, you got to bring something. And it also kind of felt like you're just like not being bullied because that's not the right word. But like, you know, we want it.

37:04I think it was eventually kind of a get your voice and be able to just at least speak back. And so I was excited to see that happen, you know? And that's what I feel like. I figured out how to do it. Yeah, there's a lot of things happening at once. I was overwhelmed because and I was also it's psychologically like it's like a mind fact. I'm trying to understand what it is, because also the producers are kind of saying like, this is your friend group. These are not your castmates. This is your friend group. do what you would do in a friend group. So I'm trying to like, okay, so I'm going to be myself.

37:34I'm going to be kind. I'm going to try to make friends. I'm just going to try to get to know people, but that's not actually like true. And it probably wasn't the best advice. I'm sure they're just trying to guide me the best they can, but really it's like, okay, this is a show, right? This is a job. These are your coworkers and you're going to have interpersonal relationships with them. But like questioning each other about things and digging into things is, but like we're doing all that we're okay we know how to dig into stuff like as therapists right so digging into people's shit in a non-therapeutic way was also very confusing to me so we're going to try to bring up stuff going on in the depths of each other without a safe space yeah i'm not trying to analyze them either where it's like and sometimes that does happen on the show where they're like somebody tries to be a makeshift therapist and they're like well dorit you're projecting your marriage you know and it's like that's like the only psychology word they know I know, but I'm like, I was so tired of hearing it was gaslighting.

38:30Oh, projection, gaslighting, deflecting. Someone got three words out of Psycho 101 and it has run rampant in the Bravo verse. No, really. And I'm like, I don't think we should be. I don't think we should be unpacking what's happening beneath the surface here. But they want you to unpack for the show because that's interesting. But it's not a safe space. It's not safe, but it's not always right either. You know, sometimes it's the person who's projecting is saying that the other person's projecting. You know, like you guys aren't using it right. I would say I felt like a rule by the end was anything.

39:01This is the level of awareness. Anyone who says anything to you is saying it about themselves. Absolutely. By the end, I was like, I mean, that's true in life. Everything. But it was real true there. I was like, OK, yeah. Yep. So social media, you've been on social media for a long time. So you know that. What changed in your social media world once you became a Bravo icon and star? Well, all these weird people with low vibes started commenting on my inspirational content. So my audience, my fans, my longtime people are like, we don't like this. Like, who are you? This is not how we do things here.

39:41So I learned very quickly. Well, I didn't want to block people because they're good for engagement. So I just started restricting everyone. Do you guys do that? Yeah. So I restrict, restrict, restrict, restrict. And then they can comment all day long into the echo chamber of their own unhappiness. Yes. That was great. So I restrict everyone. I hide the real shitty comments. And I just try to keep it as social media as clean as I can. Because this is like my space. It's my online home. But then you have people blowing up online. She deletes comments. I'm like, we're just restricting and hiding comments, actually.

40:09So there was a season, like mid-season when it was bad. Like from right after Sedona, when I had that really annoying edit. From after Sedona through like Italy. What happened to Sedona? Remind me. In Sedona, I was trying to explain how digital courses work. And they made it seem like I was talking for an hour. It was actually a conversation where people were asking me questions. Yes. And then I was sending my team an audio in the car and made it seem like I was taking an hour long phone call. Yes, yes, yes. Good for TV. Good for TV. So people, they're not like that and they have opinions. So from there to about Italy was rough, right?

40:44So I actually implemented things that are really good for an online entrepreneur. I started putting my phone away on Sundays. I started sleeping with my phone in the closet. things I probably should have done way sooner. I just got better phone boundaries. I put someone, we've always had someone in the DMS for customer support, like people trying to get into a course or need to update it, whatever. But I kind of like increased that role. Someone was checking the DMS who wasn't me more. And I, I just, I kind of stepped away from social. So I wouldn't feel it. I wouldn't see it. I wouldn't know about it as much.

41:14And then there's a pattern to it. Like Wednesday, Thursday is calm. You can check your phone again. And then everyone watches on whatever, Peacock on Friday, on Friday, Saturday, just leave your phone at home. And then they're over it by Sunday if somebody else. Yeah. Like by Monday, Tuesday, it's calm again. So like you kind of I learned the cycle. But also like I got to the point with my phone when it was real rough of like I would leave the house with my phone at home and I just feel like, babe, me and the babies are walking to I would leave him a note like we're walking here. I'll be back before you have water polo.

41:49I would ask people on the street what time it was. Good for you. People are like, Amanda Francis. Excuse me, sir. I don't know what time it was. But then like I didn't have Apple Pay with me sometimes because I don't carry credit cards. My kids would be like, can I have a cookie? And I'm like, I didn't bring my phone and we don't have Apple Pay anyway. But it probably gave me a better relationship with social media and my phone. And I've been good at ignoring haters the whole time. But it was a new level of they can say anything about you. And as long as you know it's true, I mean, y 'all have had Reddit people against you since like the beginning, I feel like.

42:26Oh, yeah. Way before it made any sense. Yep. Like, yeah. Do you have theories on why you're so triggering? That's a great question. I just remember because I was looking up something years ago to get to a course or something. Yeah. And like a Reddit came out trashing you. And I'm like, yeah, they're fairly new and fairly small to be this upsetting to people. Yeah. we're deeply upsetting for some people really yeah in my world it's typically when someone's made a lot of money people who tried to make it in the same path and didn't make it go crazy on Reddit it's pretty specific yeah it's a pretty specific audience for me and I was like what did y 'all do talk about being a better mom I'm a very boring person so I'm very confused about it like how could I be triggering I guess they're real triggered yeah but your online presence grew quickly like I don't know whatever whatever I think the theory is when women become successful.

43:19That's my theory. So it's just pretty early. But I wouldn't have said that for us like five years ago because I didn't we didn't know. And I would just have breakdowns over and do the same thing. I have to leave my phone at home. But watching now we're six years into it and watching women rise on social media, people are like, you're my best friend. You're just like me. And then the minute they have some success, they put out a book or they turn. Yeah, they use it. They quit their job, whatever it is. the minute that happens it goes like people turn we hate successful women yeah don't know and that that I could talk about until the end of time you know where why does that happen and I know it comes from a deep sense of like they should have it too yes it's usually a like but they can't that's my whole thing is I'm not that special I just worked my ass off and believed in myself right if you guys just didn't didn't research where we all live and go to our kids go to school and you put that energy into a business, they could be really successful.

44:19I've been saying that for 10 years. Can you spend this energy on Reddit? Yes. Building a business. You would be so successful. Whatever it is you're passionate about. They should be private investigators even. Like do anything. Like they're really good at it. They devote a lot. There's three. So confusing. I had someone on my team actually dig in during Housewives because it seemed it seems louder than it is honestly yes there are three people when we actually looked yeah three people that are on every thread within minutes anything that mentions my name and they this woman and her two friends we figured out who one of them is because she stared her she shared her login information and it's a long story to a course she bought like 12 years ago anyway we figured out who she was and like yes that amount of devotion yeah to me yeah yeah build something up you know that's a lot of time and energy yeah and you could be very successful very successful yeah but you asked me a specific question I don't remember neither now oh I'm so I've known my whole life or my whole career that to some degree I have to ignore it I have to be able to like know it has nothing to do with me but that's been a journey yeah it's been a journey but housewives made me confront it in a way that I had deeper way louder way than I had not had to confront it yet of like you can say anything about me, anything.

45:41And it doesn't actually change like me for the quality of my life, quality of my friends, where the people have been in my courses for years. Like everyone over here is not listening to you, you know? Yeah, and they've never met you. No. They can say anything. And they can say anything. It could be based on nothing. It could be based on like 45 minutes of a projection of you. I have a confession. I am just like not a makeup person. You probably already know this about me. And I'm really sensitive to how things feel on my skin. And this, my friends, is where Jones Road Beauty shines. If you haven't tried it yet, I'm obsessed with their Miracle Balm because it somehow gives you that healthy, glowy, I slept eight hours look.

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51:12I know. Tell me the rules. Don't understand. I want to know the rules. Don't understand social norms or social contracts. Like can't comprehend them. You didn't know the rules. Can't comprehend social hierarchy. And then you built yourself a playbook of rules. That's what I do. That's very neurodivergent of me. Yeah. Just figure out the rules, make a play good. And then now we have a system. Now I'm good. Now we feel better. Now I'm good. That's yeah. So I have known for a long time that I had ADHD. I've known in the past two years that I have OCD. Like a therapist had to be like, hey, so that's really an OCD loop.

51:42But like my OCD loops really disguised in my business. like I get obsessed with taking content and then feel compulsive about posting it for example like a lot of my things were so baked into my productivity that it took a lot of really looking it wasn't until I had a lot of health anxiety after a baby ended up ending up in a NICU and a baby dying that like the it was easier to see the OCD pattern because it was so baked into productivity yeah you're like this is a good thing this is what makes me good and function and yeah Yeah. Well, I think it's hidden. Also, my therapist said many times she's like, you're so smart that you've just used all your quirks, all your neurodivergence, all your whatever to your advantage.

52:24You built a business so you could. Yes. I probably wouldn't function very well in someone else's company. I know I wouldn't. I don't. I have a theory that no neurodivergent person should be working for someone else. And the whole reason like influencer culture came about and people are like, oh, my God, autism is so hot right now and nobody else. No, we've always been neurodivergent and autistic and ADHD. It's just now we've like formed businesses for ourselves. Now we have to literally do it this way because we can't work for other people. A lot of us took our special interests and made a business.

52:52Yeah, absolutely. We had to because the world wasn't built for us. Well, hence I'm watching you guys because you're entrepreneurial moms and that's my special interest. I'm not watching Bravo. That's not my special interest. My special interest. But it's allowed to be your special interest. But yes, I have baked my special interest into my business in ways that has worked. But like, for example, I can't open the mail. I remember being early in my business being like, I haven't opened the mail. I'm like not opening the mail. And like I'm I these bills can be paid, but like I can't go log in. And like it just took me a long time to learn.

53:22But entrepreneur being an entrepreneur set me up for it to be possible of like I can delegate every single thing that doesn't give me a dopamine hit. Literally my only strategy. You guys are so similar. I can live my life. Right. Okay, but so the new thing is, though, after I think I read an article you wrote, I've read a lot of various things I've been looking and I'm like, okay, I took a lot of the AU, AUADH, whatever we say it. Yeah, like there's good reason, but I am not diagnosed as autistic. Are you going to look into it maybe? That would be interesting. Well, yes, I think for me, I want to know.

54:01I also think I could speak on it more accurately if I knew for sure. Because I have some posts in my phone, some like potential social media posts of me explaining what it is to mask and how it feels and how it seems to other people. And it's things I want to share. And I think I might be able to share it from a bit of a stronger place with an updated diagnosis, possibly. Yeah. I, yep. We're both like, I could, you know, I could see a trek out. I think you'll be very hopeful. and it's always good I think to know how your brain functions so yeah I know your ADHD you've become very successful at business so you say I'm going to delegate all of these lower things because people with ADHD we can't we can't do it you know and if we can then I can't do my I can literally could write a book but I cannot go to the DMV yeah I cannot that's like the perfect example go to the DMV yeah or open a piece of mail or I can sit down and focus for 12 hours and work circles around other human beings.

54:58I can't open a box. I cannot open a package. And like if there's like a setup, like I can't set up. And it feels like a painful death and learning that it was OK to delegate things that felt like painful deaths. I mean, that was like an edge and a curve in an important moment. Yeah, that's a new thing for me. But if you do have autism as well, all of sort of the content loop resonates over here. My autistic counterpart has that interesting habit as well. but you'll learn strategies on on that end as well right when your autism diagnosis and has gone to autism therapy where there's specific things that you can be like oh that's why I do that similar to the mail I'm not gonna open the mail anymore you know that similar freedom and I may have some of them just trying to be smart but like yeah it would be good to have some specific skills.

55:50But like, yeah. And masking such an interesting thing and being high masking and masking and not knowing you're masking because it's just how you survived is such an interesting thing. You know, when I first got diagnosed, I had kind of like an identity crisis for a while because I was like, wait, I've been masking for so long. Like, who even am I? Like, what am I? you know I didn't know it took me a long time that's I had to skip a few like work trips because I was just like so lost and confused I felt that way with the OCD I'm like but I'm not counting things but I'm not because I didn't have that OCD and my therapist was like I don't know if this might offend people but she was like you're too smart for that your brain wouldn't be able to trick you into something that didn't make sense to you so your OCD has to look like more complex and like be baked into your work yeah I don't know but it did make me feel like I didn't know who I was for like at least at least a week.

56:43I was laying in bed one night with the idea of undiagnosed neurodivergence on on my brain. I was like, just this idea of like, oh, my God, my whole life, I felt like everyone had a rule book besides me. And it was this very distinct feeling. And I was like, I have to look into that. Like, that's like it just hit me in a way where I could feel it, receive it. I was like, huh. And then filming Housewives probably actually shined a bigger light on it because I'm like, I'm in a world where it's mostly OK that I don't understand social norms because all my friends know me and get me all my all everyone in my life.

57:22Like I try to say it to Rachel. So everyone in my life has taken my course or read my book. They all know me like really know me. So if I'm like weird or quirky or different or off or they know me. so like it wasn't until I stepped into a world where I was clearly different where I was like I'm really really different yeah and some of it's that I've stepped outside of conventional world the matrix or whatever but like also I don't understand why we care about these social rules like why not I took off my shoes under the table and Dorit gave me the nastiest look and I was just like I'm not gonna not take my shoes off at the table I don't like is the wait am I supposed to know this is a thing that's so stupid but why do we care if my shoes are off under the table and now you're here in jammies with us.

58:03No shoes and you're in jammies. Right where you should be. That's so interesting. Housewives. I think it shined a brighter light on it for me. Yeah. Because I'm getting DMs that are like, hey, so I'm autistic and I'm wondering if you've been tested. That's kind of how this journey started over here. So I mean this really lovingly. And you're like, no, because you have an idea. Everybody has this idea of like the five year old boy, whether it's ADHD or autism of like, this is what ADHD looks like, or this is what autism looks like. And it's not what it looks like, especially in highly masking women.

58:39You know how many people were like, but you're so hot. You can't be autistic. And I'm like, she is hot. And it's actually part of like her autism, right? It's like, anyways. I'm going to say one thing about that because I'm curious. So I think I learned to mask better by getting a master's in counseling. And I've been reflecting on this a lot. Same. Okay, I agree. Here's what happened. I entered the program because I want to help people, right? I want to help kids. But then I learned listening skills. I learned active listening. My whole life, I would just dominate conversations. I would talk about my special interests.

59:14I wouldn't really notice if someone wasn't listening to me. I had no awareness. And now you learn active listening and you can reflect things to people and you can sit back and have conversations. and I honestly which has helped me significantly in life so I mean I might like kind of be a functional person because of that background same definitely same you learn like tools and templates like an I statement right you're like have all these things now yeah conducting a therapy session but it converts to other conversations yeah yeah I think it's like it's something I forgot what the percentage is but it's a very large percentage of level one or highly masking, whatever you want to call it, autistic women, women who go into the field of psychology.

59:59Yes. In some form or another. And it's sort of like your special interest. Like you study how humans behave. It's like special interest. I went from watching like animal shows at night, like documentaries to like, no, I'm going to study the humans. You should have studied Housewives. If you would have studied Housewives before you went on, you probably could have, you know, you'd be like, well, then you wouldn't have done it. Then you wouldn't have done it. I wouldn't have done it. I can't watch the episodes I'm in. You've never watched them. I feel a little nauseous. I don't watch anything I do.

1:00:29I think you'd be proud of it. But I watch my courses, though. I don't. I'll watch this. Yeah. Like I would watch these clips and reshare them and be happy. I think you showed up. I tried to watch. Like I tried to watch the scene because I was trying to make content. OK, so I've watched certain scenes to try to record them on my phone so I can do the Amanda talking about what happened in the scene thing. Yes. And so I tried to watch them talking in the car about me where they're Chad GBTing me. And that like my kids are sitting there and I'm like, I don't want us watching this. Not because it's about me, because it's mean.

1:00:58Is this the vibe I want in my bedroom right now? True. Right. Right. So, OK, question. Do you how do you watch Housewives? Is it just so purely entertainment? Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Entertainment. I think it's that you can shut your brain off and watch entertainment where the line gets a little blurry is like it is somebody's real life. But you can say that about anything. It could be the hills. It could be Laguna Beach. It could be any of those shows. I love it. Like, I really, really love it. I will say I also do think that it gives women a platform like a lot of them. I've had great businesses. They've gone through divorces like Housewives of New York.

1:01:37you know they all get to like leave their leave their husbands and have money of their own finally for the first time like I don't know I think I think there's I don't have the answer to like so it never strikes you as low vibe it never strikes you as like yucky or gross or pitting women against each other I think a lot of people like it because especially as women we don't speak up and so we have all these things that we're navigating in life and we want to say all these things and when we watch this show and we're like oh my god you're just saying you're just saying or being paid to say it. I'm a big people pleaser, too.

1:02:09And so I think that could be a part of it. And maybe that's why you don't watch it as much because you're just like, hi, I don't like that. Stop. So you're like, I don't get this. And whereas I'm like, I would love to say something like that. This is like a fantasy, you know? I mean, I would never do that to other women. But they look at you like they're going to eat you. I mean, it's so like, yeah, I know. You're like, oh, that's interesting. OK, my biggest question for you. It's only for me. It's not even that big. What relationship like surprised you? Like, did you leave the show and you have a relationship with anyone?

1:02:45Are they your co-workers? Is it what we all think it is, which is like not really. I would say the person who surprised me is Kathy Hilton. Oh, my God. I forgot about Kathy Hilton. OK, we have to start a whole new episode. OK, part two. I forgot. OK, yeah, part two will be all about Kathy Hilton. Just keep going. Oh, my God. She surprised me because I didn't really know anything about her besides she's Paris's mom, right? I mean, because my generation, our generation. Right. Like, yeah, she's Paris's mom. What else would we even know? Sure. She's Kathy Hilton. Yeah. Yeah. And the little clips I seen, you know, she kind of seems like a dodo.

1:03:21But I think she plays up for the camera a little bit. Yeah. It's hilarious. I was so surprised how willing she was to be like mentor, maternal, like cameras are off and we're outside talking. and she's really trying to like give advice and like be there. And like she's quirky and she's cute. And like I've been to her family Christmas party and my kids were at her grandkids birthday party and some of her grandkids and my kids go to the same preschool. That makes me so happy. You have no idea. And like Kathy will call you at 11 p.m. to check on you. That is so sweet. I know. That makes me so happy.

1:03:56Yeah. Because she's such an icon. Like if you actually see all the things that she does, which I don't think she's a dodo. I think she almost reminds me of us. where like Paris obviously is neurodivergent, by the way. And like, I don't know. Whatever Kathy Hilton has, she's not masking. And that's where I'm like, I want to get to that level. I just want to be fucking weird as shit. She feels so hard that I'm weird again. She just she like zones out during the conversation. So neurodivergent. And then she just pop back in with like a very random phrase. And I'm like, that's iconic. She is so iconic.

1:04:29She's also a genius. Like when you're at one of these parties and you're watching how the QVC party is monetized, you're like, you're a smart lady. And I've asked questions. I've been like, can you tell me how much you charge for it? And she'll tell me and I'm like, you're a smart woman. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Love Kathy Hilton. Are you friends with any like friends with anyone after the show or? Listen, if I texted Kyle right now, she would text me back 100 percent. Jennifer Tilly. Same. Sutton. Same. Those are the ones I know for sure. The others. I don't know if I'd get a text back. Okay. Season two.

1:05:03Fair. Okay. Are we, we're wondering about season two. So I cannot say anything because I've not decided. So, but I can give you, this is like, when will this air? Next week. Okay. I can tell it. I'll just say it because the text didn't say not to say it. I got a text from post-production today that said, can you call me? And if that person is asking to talk to me today, they're probably picking our filming dates. So the conversation of are you wanting to come back is probably starting literally when I leave here. I have to call him back. I'm just going to call him in the car. I'm probably going to call him in the car and say, okay, talk to me.

1:05:42When are you guys starting this thing? Wow. Okay. I secretly hope you do it, but I hope you listen to your inner voice and I hope it says yes.

1:05:53I like seeing you on there. I think you're like a fresh change. Even though they tried to destroy me? Yeah. I see from your perspective, because you're a person. I liked seeing you. It was nice to see you on the TV. You know, like I thought you were good. You rounded out the cast well, I would say. You know? And the truth is it didn't destroy me. Right. You know, because it is kind of that thing just like Reddit forums where it's like, this isn't actually necessarily all of me. Or, you know, like you're still being real though. Like you're being, you can respond in your real ways. but the people committed to taking you down or proving whatever about you is very odd and they all because they took the scam artist narrative or whatever like i'm getting dms like you're going to jail like it's not pleasant no no it's not you're the next housewife to be incarcerated is not just a little spike of cortisol for you nowhere but that's not fun no but then it was also fun to witness that like, okay, so my longtime clients, people, whatever, everyone kept doing their thing, buying what they wanted to buy and rolling what they want to roll.

1:07:04All of that was normal. And then I had the intuitive instinct that was absolutely correct to see what I create for housewife people at low, low prices and just like very accessible. And so I created like a$5 thing. I created a pay what you feel. I created an 11, another pay what you feel. And then I created a 21 day program for$21 that had 21 modules and 5 ,000 people signed up in like a week. The show era. And that's because of the show, we think. So I, yeah, I think, so my people are going to take a chance on anything I do at any price point. They know me and they know the value I get. But bringing Housewives people into my world was like, I don't exactly know how this is going to go.

1:07:42Right. From book sales. I know Housewives spiked book sales like crazy. Yeah. Like crazy, crazy. I'm sure. And it's self-published. So that's like literally actually my money. So that was meaningful. But I was like, I didn't know how we were going to get them from book to maybe other things. But like these lower cost things have been I do get a lot of, hey, I found you through housewives. And that really helped me like people who've never really done self-reflection, personal development, like like have no real foundation for these kind of things like thanking me. And so when 5000 people enroll in something you created for them, that is very rewarding.

1:08:19and that makes me go like, okay, I can use this for good. Right. But it was tricky because it's not like you show up on Housewives and everything you, every single thing you've ever created is like just flying off the shelves. Right. Because these people don't know you. They're skeptical of you. The other Housewives are saying it's a scam. Right. Right. But I think now I'm like, okay, these Housewives fans like. Yeah. They're curious. They're curious and I think I'm making a difference for some of them and that's like my actual job. Right. Yes. The purpose. Yes. Okay. Okay. But it was a long, it was a weird long road.

1:08:52Yeah. And you didn't know how it was going to affect your business, basically. Like, were you worried at any point about how it was going to affect your business? Because even in the worst of it, it stayed like consistent. Like we have recurring payments from longtime people. So it was never like, oh, my business took a hit. My public perception may have taken a hit for a time. But that didn't really affect people who've been hanging out in my world for a million years. Like my therapy bill took a hit to get through it. EMDR twice a week. Every week. Good. I'm proud of you. Good job. We did so much EMDR.

1:09:23So much EMDR. You know the buzies, the ones you can hold in your hands? I had those under the table. I had buzies under the table. Oh, yeah. Smart. I love that. I know. Good for you. Yeah. We're going to go rapid fire. Let's go rapid fire. We've got questions for you. Okay. Yeah. Which housewife made you laugh the most? Kathy. Yep. Okay. Biggest surprise about Andy Cohen. We love him. I like Andy Cohen. He was very warm. He came into my dressing room and watched What Happens Live and said, what do you want to say? What do you want to set straight? Like, you have a platform on Bravo. What do you need to do here?

1:09:55And I was like, you didn't have to do that. You know? He's a nice guy. And he's the best. He's a nice guy. He really is. Which cast member is the most different off camera? Erica. Okay. Okay. Whose closet would you steal? How to Housewives? Yeah. I mean, Rachel's, but we'd have to change the sizing. Oh. can I say that yes oh my god okay hardest reunion look to sit in for hours you only had one I only had one oh that's fair you're right okay but that was a thing oh my god my dress got disapproved like the day before okay I know that was the thing okay they only approve a few certain things I'll just tell you really really quickly your your billboard look thing, the one where I'm wearing the purple dress, that whatever that's called.

1:10:46And the main titles where you come out and say your little line about I didn't marry into money. I manifested it. And then reunion. Those are the three things where Bravo stylists want to see what you're planning to wear and tell you which one they would like you to wear. And then they actually kind of have the final decision. So we get a mood board of what we should wear to the reunion. I order a bunch of shit. I'm like something from something's going to work. And then a few days before I'm sending them all my looks and they're like, everyone else on the cast dressed more formal than you. And I'm like, this is off the mood board.

1:11:14They're like, well, everyone else kind of understood that it's more formal for the reunion. And I'm like, it's my, my assistant is taking screenshots of the dress I bought and the mood board, like the same dress. And they're like, so as a potentially autistic person, you gave me the data, the data, right? You gave me a rule book and I followed it. I did what you said. So it's the day before. And I don't know what I'm wearing to the reunion. And one of the Bravo stylists is like, you can go to this dress shop. You can go here, you know, there. And I'm like, I'm like, you guys have learned at this point that like, I don't freak out.

1:11:48I don't have a crisis. I'm not going to run around the day before acting this way. I'm going to home to my kids for dinner. I'll figure it out. Yeah. So I'm standing in my bathroom after dinner, getting a spray tan. And it just hits me that I tried on a dress from like a rental shop six months before because I didn't want to buy that purple dress thing. I didn't like it. So I rented it. so I tried the reunion look I tried on the day I wanted to wear it to the purple dress billboard thing and they didn't approve it they approved the purple dress but I had pictures of it in my phone so I send pictures of the bravo stylist she sends pictures she sent the pictures to the bravo execs it gets approved and then my assistant thankfully had the phone number of someone who worked at the shop the cell phone number and someone from a bravo assistant ran over there at like seven in the morning they had to open early they had to get the dress they had to bring it to me at Sony or wherever the fuck we were filming.

1:12:39And that was my reunion. Look, and that is LA baby. But it felt like a big manifestation because I'm saying it's going to work out. I'm not going to freak out. This is going to work out. And then like I have the idea because it could have been such a crisis moment. I don't know. I'm going to wear my reunion and these people hate me. Yeah, because also you got to think we filmed the reunion. The turning of the fans had not happened yet. We're filming in March. Right. Everything started turning in my favor after that. So everyone on stage with me, you can see this. Everyone on stage with me thinks it's safe to hate me.

1:13:09The fans hate you. You rubbed everyone the wrong way. We're going to think about that. They're all talking to me like I am the worst ever because they think they're siding with public opinion. But by the time the reunion airs, everyone loves me. Yeah. And so they all look like extra assholes. What a wild ride. Oh, my God. Do we have another one? Okay, I'm too sorry. Real quick. This is not rapid fire. Yeah, it's not rapid fire. I have too many stories. I love it. I'll be rapid fire. Biggest Bravo hot take. Hot take. I mean, the thing that like the not really friends, the castmates thing. My God, anything I say, I have to answer to in a matter of weeks if I do this again.

1:13:46Amanda, you said. Oh, God. Are Dorit and Bo's really friends? Oh. Did Bose do all of her research, watch all of her things and make a strategy that said she has no friends, I'll be her friend and I'll play girl's girl card? I mean, that's a very hot take. I like that. That's a very hot take. I'm not saying they're not friends now. I'm not saying they haven't formed a camaraderie now. But it's strategic. Question mark. Do you think there's any chance it was there? Question mark. Question mark. Question mark. Hot take. And this one I don't think you can even answer, actually. Which confessional had you yelling at your own TV?

1:14:24Do you even watch them? I don't watch them. If you were to look back, though, do you regret any moment? Or is there a moment that you wish you would have done differently? I just would have learned the ping pong game sooner. Yeah. Yeah. Like that dinner in Santa Monica where I'm like, are you talking about what Kyle told me? And I'm trying to understand what the fuck they're saying. I think I would have been like, this happened. I'm like, I just would have like energy brought the energy to it a little bit and just set up more strongly so it didn't have to drag on for like four dinners. Totally.

1:14:53Totally. Why did we have to talk about the thing I never said for four dinners? Now I want to go on reality TV and get real confused and just see what happens. Where she's like, why are we talking about this? It's just you in a corner with a drink thing, like with a mocktail. Why are we talking about fans? Did you wonder like a little? Amanda didn't really say anything about her. Why are we talking about at four dinners later where you're a little bit like, Amanda doesn't hate to reach. Isn't that talking about her marriage? I mean, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it was also, I mean, at that point also it was like dead, you know, it was like beating a dead horse a little bit.

1:15:27I mean, and Kyle said that to me. Kyle, I would say, is also very willing to be a mentor, talk about anything going on. She very much like is willing to help people find out the roads. But she was like, Amanda, we're not above beating a dead horse. We're going to do it. That's right. And I'm like, okay, you're going to get the juice out of this, you know and I'm like I'm like Kyle I really unless I forgot something I don't think I said anything about her and then I think you start quite but that was actually so good I wondered so many times while filming did I forget something really important did I say something horrible and not remember it right by time we got to the reunion and everything I remembered was right from the stepmom comment to the business comment to the everyone knows who I am when I walk into to a room to the what I said at Kathy, like the cameras proved me right every time.

1:16:13And it was so valid. Like it was like, trust your brain. Yeah. Trust your instinct. Yeah. Validating. So validating. Because you don't know if the cameras are to make you look nuts or not. Yeah. No, really. But yeah, we could talk for four more hours. Yeah. We can't. We can't. But thank you for being here. Thank you for having me. It was the best time. Obsessed with you. And I hope you're on season two. But if you're not, we're just going to hang out. So OK, let's hang out. All right. Okay, bye.

1:17:00Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.