Autism in Parenting: Embracing Who We Are, Not Fixing What We're Not

27:19Deena:Choosing what to order off a menu was actually like overwhelming at times. And I would end up crying. And from the outside, it probably just looked so silly and so dramatic. Let's dive more into the sensory stuff because as parents, I mean, boy, oh boy, our sensory inputs a lot different than like solo or coupled life. And like you've mentioned yours is your big one is light, right? As you sit on this recording, wearing sunglasses inside, like light is the big one, right? Yeah, it is for me. It's bright lights. It's the overhead lights are really hard. Then it's overlapping sounds, specific sounds like chewing noises.

28:01Deena:I really cannot tolerate. I never have been able to. My family has laughed slash gotten really upset about it over the years. But then it's also textures, aka why I wear my uniform as we called it for years and laughed about it. But now we understand. I will wear the exact same outfit almost every single day because once I find something comfortable that really works for my body, I'm going to stick with it and just buy a few pairs and repeat it over and over. Because so many clothes, seams, tags, they bother me. I'm also really sensitive to certain smells. So it's kind of all the sensory things for me and definitely light.

28:40For me, the bigger one is auditory inputs. And I was thinking about this as a broader picture of things. I've always really enjoyed being in large crowds of people that I don't know. I find it so soothing and relaxing. I can't stand silence. It drives me nuts. But if there is white noise outside with tons of people around of people that are not talking to me, it is so soothing. And I was thinking about this anytime that I would travel to a different country where I don't speak the language, it's even better because not only are people not talking to me, I don't even know what they're saying. So my brain won't even try to pick up on what they're saying.

29:20And like, after I would go to a trip to a different country, let's say I was in Thailand, I don't understand what anybody's saying at the people at the tables next to me, coming home and going to a restaurant and then understanding every conversation around me was painful because I was trying to listen, like not even by choice to every single conversation around me. And that I still do that. Like if a table is talking next to us, I'm listening to Kristen and this table next to us. And then a step further to where it becomes too much to handle is when my kids are allowed around me. And I feel horrible about that.

29:56And I was thinking about this this morning because in those situations, I'm hearing other people's conversations, but it doesn't matter. None of those conversations involve me. I don't have to be listening to those conversations. But then when my kids are screaming around me, I'm responsible for their lives. So I have to intently pay attention to those conversations. And that's when it becomes too stressful for my senses.

30:24Deena:Okay. This makes so much sense. A, this is why I go to cafes to work. I want to be around people, but I don't want to chat directly with people. I want to be there. And it's kind of like white noise. B, I've never heard anyone describe this, but I lived in Italy like in my early twenties for a little bit. I speak some Italian, but I remember telling people my brain, my body has never felt so calm as being there because I would have to intentionally start to listen to conversations around me to understand it. And so most of the time, I just was kind of tuned out in my own world, feeling super calm, which by the way, like that was a lot of my childhood is I'm so curious.

31:13Deena:Actually, this is a question I had for you. did you feel lonely as a kid? Because I did not fit in. I did not have friends. And I felt a lot of peace in my own mind. Like I basically, if you look at my little diaries from when I was little, I was a philosopher. I was like a sociologist just studying people kind of from the outside. And in my own world, this is kind of embarrassing, but a lot of autistic kids do this is I created kind of like an imaginary world. It was a magical world, honestly. And like people might be listening to that and like your intent might be to like to describe this as like a sad thing.

31:56And I'm like, wow, that sounds so nice.

31:59Deena:It really was nice. And I felt very lonely when I just knew I was on the outside. I knew I was different, but I didn't understand why. My childhood was like immensely lonely and I didn't have those like kind of fake worlds. Mine was more like, oh, what if I was like, I don't know if you ever saw Sidekicks starring Chuck Norris and Jonathan. Oh, I forget his last name. He was in Seagate and a bunch of other stuff. Negative, but keep going. Besties are going to know him. But he was in this movie called Sidekicks with Chuck Norris and he was super lonely kid isolated and his best friend was chuck norris in his imagination and like that was the life i was trying to lead like i was you know on oh yeah you know what look at this dina look at you unlocking memories for me yeah i spent my world in like complete imagination but it was but it was also like seeing other people and not necessarily wishing what they had but like wishing to have the same social connectedness to one another.

33:06Yes. At school, like I never felt, I literally felt like an extra in my own childhood. Yes. It felt like there were like main characters at school. And I wasn't even like secondary character. I was like kid number three in schoolyard, you know, just there. I was just there. I was just adding to the ambiance of school.

33:30Deena:And you know what's really interesting? When you look at research, autistic children actually rate themselves as good friends. They feel like they are good friends, and they want to be around people. They want to have friends. And yet they also don't quite fit in because they really experience the world and communication and interactions so differently. so they end up having to resort to their less preferred option which is being alone i don't feel that now i'm so much more comfortable like in my solitude for a lack of better word and i've also made some really incredible friends that i'm definitely more of a like quality over quantity type of person like some by choice some by you know necessity some by just like limited in what my social skills are but yeah that that was like a really interesting part of my childhood now that you're now that yeah and I think that's like a myth to kind of break is that autistic people are not social we're social it just has to be the right fit and it's just a matter of like ability like yeah that was like going back to it like when I was a kid I wanted to be I wanted to be sociable.

34:45I wanted to be like, I wanted to have lots of friends. Like I wanted to have playdates. I wanted people to like be around me and it just didn't happen. And it was, it was a real bummer. It's like sad to think back on, but like, yeah, it's people think like, oh, autistic people just like to be, you know, alone, just be alone.

35:03Deena:It's like, no, we, we really wanted friends. It's just, we operate so differently that it was, well, I know for me, I just, I was pushed to the outside. Like I wasn't even in the group. And even growing up in middle school and high school, I kind of had a group, but everybody had really close friendships and I just didn't. Like I couldn't get there. I don't know about you, but the beauty industry right now, it can feel so overwhelming. Like 12-step skincare routines, giant palettes with 50 shades that you'll just never use. And when it comes to makeup, I don't personally have time for trial and error.

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40:40Deena:when we're talking about autism when we're talking about any neurodiversity here it's important to acknowledge that there are challenges like we've been talking a lot about and then there are strengths to it so yes and and I think that's one thing I've had to personally get over to be able to speak about this openly I had a hard time at first saying it because so many people are like, oh my God, it's so dramatic. You're not autistic. You can talk, you can talk to people, you make, like, girl, this is a crazy trend. Like, no, no, no, no, no. Here's the thing. Autistic traits, they're human traits.

41:22Deena:So of course, all people are going to have some variation of this. Now they, for autistic people, just show up more intensely, more consistently disrupt life in many ways that non-autistic people just don't experience and often in ways that the world just isn't built to support that's that's a lot of like our loneliness if you get to the core of it is we just didn't fit in with the mold you know we are different and that's like when we look at these things and we look at them from an outside perspective or neurotypical perspective, a lot of these things are seen as flaws. Right. And they're only flaws in the lens of the neurotypical society.

42:11Like these things don't keep us from doing things. They make it so we do things in a different way through a different thought process and just through a different like understanding. And it's not to say like, oh, everybody should be, you know, focused on like what our needs are in order to do this. And it's like, no, no, no. it's just understanding that it is different and that it's and it's fine just because someone

42:34Deena:operates differently than you their eye contact's different their tone of voice may be different the way they're holding their body may be different the things they want to talk about may be different it doesn't mean it's wrong and also back to the point of well like everyone's a little autistic like that is not true here's a really good example i recently i don't do birthday parties in our house. Like when kids are invited, it's always Mike who goes because my nervous system really can't do it. Okay. It was Wimbledon finals. He was like really into it. We had a birthday party for our older one.

43:10Deena:I was like, you know what? I can do this. So I go to the aquarium. I bring my sunglasses. I bring my earplugs, right? I was a little embarrassed to put my earplugs in, but it was so damn loud. I put them in, I covered it with my hair and I was like, okay, I'm trying to accommodate. I'm trying to do all the things. And then I'm having the conversations and everyone's like, how was your summer? How's your summer been? Just over and over. And I think what people don't realize is my autism is such an internal experience because in that moment, my brain within seconds is flipping through 20 different routes that I could go from oversharing to like the most general response I could ever give because we don't really know each other.

43:57Deena:And I'm trying to quickly determine what route I'm going to go here with answering. And that's the thing. It feels like a lot of things internally are like a manual shift. Not a lot is automatic. Meanwhile, my brain's going, why are we even having this conversation? We're not going to see each other again. So there's that part, which like, again, a difference. I'm not mean. I'm not a rude person. It's just that's instantly what my mind does. You're every time you're doing that, you're using so much mental energy to go through it. And you mentioned eye contact. And that's something I've always struggled with.

44:34And I thought I was just being rude. And I would force myself to look people in the eye while they're talking to me. And when I realized that I was autistic and that was the reason why it was such an enormous weight lifted off my shoulders. And Kristen one night was like, why don't you like making eye contact? And I said, it's the only thing I focus on in conversations. I will miss half of the conversation because when I am making eye contact, first of all, where do you look? Where do you look when you're making eye contact? I'll, you know, maybe I'll look at the forehead. I'll look at left eye, right eye, bridge in the nose, you know, somewhere in that, am I bouncing too quickly between left eye and right eye?

45:16Do they see me not being able to decide where to look? Okay, like, now that I'm looking here, is that making uncomfortable? Like, if I move my eyes around too quick, does that make them uncomfortable? Am I uncomfortable right now? And while all of that's happening, I'm trying to pay attention to the conversation. And that's just with me looking at them. And then if they're looking at me too, I'm like, well, do they do they know that I'm uncomfortable right now? Are they like, It's such a two way street of mental exertion to where I can stare at like a box in the corner and hear every single word they're saying in like such detail and be able to participate in a conversation.

45:51And the other day I was talking to someone and I was forcing myself, forcing my forcing and forcing. And all of a sudden I just stopped doing it and I started staring off and I could kind of tell that they were like, what is going on? And I said, I'm just be straightforward with you. I'm autistic. Making eye contact is extremely hard for me. I hear everything you're saying, but I'm just not gonna make eye contact right now. And they're like, Oh, people can just be understanding of that. Not even being like, Oh, gosh, like, why? You're so rude. Why can't you look at me when we're talking versus like, well, they're not making eye contact.

46:25And that's fine. But they're clearly participating in this conversation. Exactly.

46:29Deena:And you've already commented, by the way, on something that I experienced, which is called bottom up processing. and a lot of autistic people do, which is you take the raw data of what's happening and you need all the data and all the kind of input to come to a conclusion. You were talking about that a little bit earlier. And a lot of people who are neurotypical go the opposite way, where they start to quickly have a concept in their mind from past experiences and things, and they kind of quickly jump to assumptions. Now, this explains why I have always had to understand the why of everything.

47:08Deena:And you see this in little kids, especially who are neurodiverse. The why, the why need to understand all the time. And it's just another kind of example of differences of how we process. And I know you had talked about that a little bit earlier, too. I know you and I share something else in common of like, well, what's the plan? Always having a plan. And then like we talked about kind of the social hangovers that happen. So all this to say, not everyone's a little autistic. Like I'm going to go ahead and just cross that one off for us right now. Like, yeah. Like if you need five business days to recover from a kid's birthday party, Like, let's come back and check.

47:54OK, and that's fine. Like, I actually don't have that one. But you touched on like the having a plan. I like to think of myself as pretty spontaneous. And Kristen would probably laugh at that. Here's the thing. If we are doing something and I'm able to make the plan or know the plan in advance, I'm golden. It's when the plan changes at the last minute and I'm not the one making the change. That's when things get tough. But that let's tie this in here. to parenting with autism. Yeah, that is a huge trigger for me. When I make a plan for a Saturday, the kids are on board. We're ready to go to the arts festival.

48:32Saturday morning comes. We're packing up. Someone starts melting down and we say, you know what? We're not going to the arts festival. We're just going to take it easy and go to the playground. I cannot comprehend that. I can't process that. And I and I have my own meltdown. I have my own meltdown in that moment.

48:50Deena:Exactly. And that's an instance where if you don't understand it, you just look at this person and you're like, what a rigid ass person. Like, are you kidding me? But inside, it's hard to describe until you're going through it that this is how your brain is wired. This is actually something where being aware of the autism changed my marriage in some ways. Now, Mike, my husband, has this whole new kind of way of understanding me. We have this deeper understanding that when plans are changing or when we're getting out the door later than I was aiming for. It's actually really stressful for me. And so now with this deeper understanding, we're able to work like a team together better.

49:29Deena:He's not getting frustrated with me. I understand more of what I need in our partnerships just on this new level. It's like a new way of working with a partner. I'm incredibly lucky to have a partner with Kristen who is so plugged in to a more diverse understanding of the world to where she is able to be like, okay, like I get that work. The planes have changed. If you need to stay home, that's fine. What do you need in order to go to the park? Like what would make you feel a bit more like confident in this change and like that, but for a bunch of other stuff that like are my triggers. And so I'm very fortunate to have a partner like her.

50:07And it sounds like you are as well with Mike, but yet learning to work around those obstacles has been a real game changer. And, you know, something like that with kids is like nothing goes to plan with kids. Kids don't hang out in silence. Kids need things from you 24-7. One thing you noted on with my like auditory issues is earplugs. Yeah. Having earplugs on standby has been unbelievable, unbelievable. And that was like you said, like in a social situation, feeling bad for having them. I did feel bad at the start for needing them like with my kids. It's horrible to like say like, well, I can't, I can't be around my kids like with them just like being kids.

50:53And it's like, well, would you rather be around them and be super irritable or like make the small concession and wear earplugs and be able to be around them? Like my number one place that's doing it, like something I've been working on therapy is using tools preemptively.

51:09Deena:Yes. Yep. Because if I'm reacting and I try to use those tools, I'm already like in a, in an orange state, you know, making my way towards red where I could be like doing it in advance. And like, it felt horrible about it. But when me and all three kids are in the car, I had to put my earplugs in before we even go anywhere because the three, the car is so hard for me. Always has been, man. It's the noise from behind is what doesn't like random screaming from behind is, is, is just sets my nerves on fire. And if I have earplugs in to start, the odds of that happening and the odds of my nervous system just going bonkers just is reduced so much.

51:50And it's like, yeah, I feel bad about it. But like, check that out. I'm not reacting harshly. I'm not like, you know, having a hard time in my skin. I can actually help in conflict now. Like, I'm not protecting myself. I'm able to jump into the conflict itself.

52:06Deena:Yeah, you can actually show up. That's incredible. It's so beautiful. And that's exactly how I do it, too, is I keep my earplugs around. And when they're laughing or whatever, someone's having a big feeling, no matter what, the volume's rising. I even explain to them, I say, you know what? I'm putting these in because it helps my body stay calm. And then I can help you with your feelings because it is OK to cry. And I want them to see what it's like to really just with no shame, tap into who you are and accommodate yourself and show up as your best self without any judgment. We've talked a lot about the challenges that come with it.

52:49Deena:And I want to flip for a second to how this can be almost like a strength. And I've noticed that me, like I'm going to use myself as an example here. Somehow, even without realizing I was autistic, had the self-awareness growing up to become a child therapist. Now, stick with me here. I process language very literally, which is like a child's language, right? They like when things are very simple and direct and so do I. And I like one-on-one interactions. Therapy is a one-on-one interaction. It's perfect. I walk in with a plan because I love having a plan and I love having structure. And in our sessions, I know exactly what we're working on.

53:38Deena:And once I have the structure, I can tap in and go with the flow, which again, like makes me a great child therapist. And the bottom up thinking we talked about, where I'm not going to make assumptions about what they're feeling, what they're thinking, what's going on. I'm going to help build all and collect all the pieces. And then we come to a conclusion together because a lot of autistic people have a really great pattern recognition, which I definitely have, which is why I love reading like dense, you know, research articles like, oh, I love that. That's what lights me up. And then once we've kind of put all the pieces together in our session, I'm going to pick and pull the tools that we're going to work on together.

54:26Deena:And I think the one thing that ended up making me such a great therapist that I'm happy I leaned into is that I have struggled with things that feel so silly to other people that I have so much empathy and compassion. Like there is zero judgment. You show up just as you are. And we're going to we're going to be in this together. We're going to grow together. And I think that's the other thing, too is like in my life I've gone through such kind of hard dark moments a lot of times from feeling so lonely or feeling misunderstood and that nobody really understood how I operate that I grew my way out of it over time and now I'm such like a soft safe place to land and to explore and to grow together so it can be like an incredible strength speaking of like those strengths as well especially like for kids is and i know you have this too and i know a lot of the besties have seen it stories it's like you love an activity i love an activity and i love an activity i don't call them activities i call them adventures yes girls do you guys want to go on an adventure?

55:44And they're like, yes. And it's even so much that they're like, no, like we don't need an adventure.

55:50Deena:No more adventures, Don. No more adventures. I'm like, I have to go do something because if we're sitting at home, I'm just like, I just get so antsy and like pretty bored. But if I'm like, let's go explore, you know, let's go find a new beach. Let's go find a new market. Let's go to the airport and watch. Yes. Let's go find, you know, a new collectible shop. Let's go, you know find a new Pokemon store I'm so happy you bring this up because so many people think of rest as like you need to lay down and stay still and like just calm your mind but for a lot of autistic people restoration is actually like going and adventuring and doing your special interest and like that's how you fill your tank I know that's how I do and people look at me especially like I was so scared to share that part sometimes on social media, especially because it's different.

56:41Deena:Right. I look like this mom who's like overdoing it like, oh, you've got to take your kids to fishing and like you've got to go on all these adventures. Actually, it's the opposite. That's how I prevent my burnout is by doing these adventures that really we just like go take in the world and and like explore. Let's go through last thing. I'm going to do rapid fire tools. OK, I'm going to name something. You tell me if you're already using it or if this is new to you. OK. All right. Oh, this one you already said noise canceling headphones or earplugs. Keep them things on. Yes. Weighted blanket.

57:23No.

57:24Deena:Oh, OK. OK. OK. I get that. Fidget tools or sim toys? Before I had them, I was a big time fidgeter, got in trouble with it in school all the time, the inability to sit still. So like fidget toys, I try to have something in my hands at all times. I haven't got that one. No? Weighted blanket is for me, but not the fidgets. Okay. What about visual schedules or checklists? Yes. My favorite one is one Kristen does that I'm sure the besties have seen it on Instagram is the post-it notes on the fridge. yes okay get done faster than having post-it notes on the fridge i always have a list on my phone that's mine i do but then i never look at it is the problem next one i feel like i feel like i've seen you do this feelings wheel where there's the big wheel of feelings and you find the feeling that like is most accurate for you i love a feelings wheel they're so helpful fine is not a feeling okay it's not a feeling that's right you can't you can't feel fine and can't feel okay But it's not.

58:28Those are not feelings. You're getting into like anger or rejection or like, I'm just I like how I'm only doing negative ones or like joy or, you know, in enchanted. That's not one of them. But you get the point. They're very specific feelings, which I love. And I love a feelings wheel, especially like when you are in a moment of overstimulation and you're trying to explain how you feel and then to, you know, let this ADHD real quick feelings wheel, literal words. You talked about literal words. I have a big thing with literal words. When I have an argument with Kristen, I will latch onto specific words because I find them inaccurate.

59:07And I feel like you can't have a conversation based on inaccurate words. So she'll be like, you're so angry about this. And I'll be like, I'm not angry. I'm frustrated by this. And she's like, that's the same thing. I'm like, it is very much not the same thing. And we'll get like caught up on that. So it's like very literal thing for me. So having a feelings wheel has been, game changer.

59:28Deena:But hot tip feelings wheel, you can use it with people. You can also use it with yourself because even just naming the feeling to yourself contains a lot of the emotional chaos that we feel inside, just giving it a name. So that's really amazing. Okay, last one. You ready? Yes. Explaining your needs openly when it's safe to do so. Oh, that's a hard one because number one, yes, I have been, but understanding that I'm in a safe space to express those needs and that I'm not too much for expressing those needs. The don't touch me. I'm overwhelmed. The I'm going over there because it's too loud in here for a minute.

1:00:06The I'm putting in earplugs because this is too loud, like the doing and not even asking as much for permission because knowing that like, okay, if this need is not met, it will be like, it will result in aggravation or irritation or something that's harder to come back from versus just saying like, hey, I'm going to go do this. And then having, of course, like you said, save someone in your life that's like, OK, go do it.

1:00:31Deena:100 percent. I'm still working on that. And my example is like in a work environment, especially with adults, I've had to explain beforehand like, hey, I speak very directly. I'm very blunt. I'm very literal. So I never want you to interpret that as I'm angry or upset. It's just how I communicate. And if you ever have any questions or like something seems off, let's talk about it. Let's connect on it. Okay, besties, this has been so fun. Thank you for being here. Thank you for being a safe space for me and Tyler to really talk about this. And if you feel like an outsider, you feel different, you felt odd.

1:01:10Deena:I just want you to know there's nothing wrong with you. Everybody is so different. And while we all have our own unique challenges, we all have our strengths, especially when we really embrace our authentic needs. We lean into them. We accommodate them and we show up with kindness to ourselves. It's a game changer. Okay, besties. This has been great. We are going to go rest. And catch up on breathing. I'm going to go. Yeah. Wait, I've been watching. What's it called? Hold on. The Summer I Turned Pretty. I feel like Kristen probably read the book because she reads all the books. She reads them all.

1:01:50Deena:But I've been watching that. So I'm going to go watch exactly 10 minutes and then be asleep at exactly 10 p.m. and no later. Let me know if you have a baby. I'll keep you posted. Okay, besties. Hopefully see you next week if I haven't had my baby yet. Bye.

1:02:37Deena:Thank you.