'F*ck Around and Find Out' Parenting Is Trending… Should You Try It?

0:00Sleep Number's new collections are designed to adapt to the changing nature of your life and sleep needs. Whether it's the personalized comfort of the new Comfort Mode mattress, the targeted pressure relief of the Comfort Next mattress, or the climate collection that actively cools or warms to help you fall asleep and stay asleep. And now, get early access to our biggest sale of the year. Save 25 % on the new Comfort Next Luxe for a limited time. Only at a Sleep Number store or sleepnumber.com. The following podcast is a Dear Media production. Welcome back to another episode of After Bedtime. This one is a spicy one because the internet is abuzz about gentle parenting versus F around and find out.

0:47So this week, the Wall Street Journal published a piece called Goodbye Gentle Parenting, Hello F Around and Find Out Parenting. And in this article, a parent describes the moment her 13-year-old sprayed her with a water gun. So she literally threw him into a pond. OK, clothes and all. And she says in this article, quote, some of the best lessons in life are the hard ones, unquote, she said. Another mom told The Wall Street Journal, maybe your kids wouldn't like that. Mine would. My kid is tougher than yours. That article blew up because it captured something parents everywhere are feeling. That maybe gentle parenting has stopped working.

1:29That staying calm and validating everything doesn't always cut it. And now parents are swinging hard in the other direction. But if you're a parent in 2025 caught between these two extremes, one side saying validate every emotion and the other side yelling, look around and find out. Well, you're probably wondering, what actually works? What kind of parent am I supposed to be? How do I raise a good, kind, resilient, strong kid? This episode is here to clear it up. We're going to tell you exactly how to parent backed by science, built for real life, to have a kid who is ready for the real world, who has emotional intelligence and is strong inside and out.

2:14Welcome to After Bedtime, where the house is finally quiet, but the real noise begins. The thoughts, the questions, the wondering if you're doing any of this right. We're Kristen. And Dina, child behavior experts, moms, and co-founders of Big Little Feelings. And we're not here to give you more pressure or perfect parenting energy. Nope. We're here to tell the truth, the unfiltered, beautiful, brutal truth about what it means to raise kids. and re-raise ourselves in the process. Because parenting isn't just about sleep schedules and snack hacks. It's about healing. It's about breaking cycles. It's about becoming the kind of adult you want your kids to grow up to be.

2:54This is the place where we say the quiet parts out loud. And we're so glad that you're here. Woo! Dina! Woo! Dina! Dina! And... I'm still here, guys. You're still here. We didn't know if you were going to join the episode today because you might have a baby any minute. We're on baby watch right now. No, she's going to do the episode between contractions. She would. She would love to. I actually would. I would do that. Besties, should we? You've seen me do that on the podcast. On the podcast. On a podcast. Obviously, we're not putting that on video. Only with video. No, she goes only with video.

3:31Dina prefers a video. Dina's first birth is somewhere on video, right? Somewhere? Yeah, and my second one. Yeah, well, I took the second one. Yeah. I had that on my phone. Dina wants it like her Instagram content for a while there was just like in their births, you know? Yes. It was everything. I'm a pass. Tyler, what's your stance on birth? You're into it? For it. You like it? You're fine with it? The results have been good. Oh, I have a man question. Did you go below the belt? Did you go down for the birth? Thank you for asking them in. I did not on the first. I did on the second. Huge regret.

4:11I could do it. That's honest. I would not do it again. Really? Straight up. Miraculous. It's a miracle that I don't need to witness. Wow. There's some miracles you don't need to see. Okay. Who leaves some mystery to the universe. Name one other miracle that you don't want to see. I mean, I'd love to see a star being born. Okay. Name one that you don't also want to see. Like probably any animal being born. okay gosh i love it does anything come to mind i think you should try it again maybe we should try with dina i should have done some research it goes back to a normal psicanic yeah miracle that i don't want to see is it because everybody cover your baby ears we have sex like is it different if somebody else does it or it's just in general the anatomy there's a lot of blood there's like a lot happening like yeah i don't know how your middle school experience was is that we saw the miracle of birth oh i didn't i think a lot of people saw that besties you i saw it she saw it did i see it and i just don't i don't you skipped class that day i'm sure i wonder how many people have seen that woman give birth it's a lot that's true this is one specific the miracle of birth is like this is video wow yes it is one video and that lady you're right I feel like you would really enjoy it.

5:30I'm really into it. I love her. You would enjoy that a lot. I would really like to watch it. I get to watch so many birth videos. I've watched like free birth videos in my free time. You know what I mean? It's when you have no one there. You're just birthing on your own. It's like that scene in Ace Ventura 2. I don't know what you're speaking about. My besties know. I do know. It's the rhino scene. The rhino scene. Even Tina knows. Tina, you know something. I know something for once about a movie. that's wild wow i'm proud of you she knows the pop culture thank you we i feel like this is a very hd episode right now you guys are really leaning into ping-ponging right now yeah we're vibing you feel about it it's it's a vibe we're vibing on birth it's rare that i do this but yeah we're vibing are you just like i'm just thrilled to be vibing right now i don't care what it's about but i'm just so happy to be accepted somewhere you fully are beyond and celebrated speaking of celebrated that's not my segue the story that i was going to come on here and tell is has nothing to do with this at all okay like 10 minutes ago when i was putting the baby down and by baby i mean he's almost three but you know he's going to be forever forever so i was putting the baby down and because he's the third baby and the internet is probably going to come at me and that's okay.

6:55He was having a pouchy before bed, but we brush his teeth after. Okay. For the record. But he was having a pouchy. Okay. And he spilled some on just his face. Okay. Not his jammies or anything. And the wipes were in another room. And you know what happens once you open that door, you open the door and all of a sudden, he needs to go do a thousand more hugs and needs to go outside. He needs to go do a million other things so i had one second to make the decision since it's not on his clothes and everything is fine i'm just gonna like like wipe this off with my hand but it's a significant amount so now what because you don't have any wipes so i put it in my mouth yeah yeah obviously okay this was the once upon a farm cherry elderberry flavor has anybody here tried that it sounds good mike eats those all the time that checks out sorry mike it's just when they're about to expire he's like oh i'll down this oh that's a great idea yeah wow um it was interesting is all i have to say i was surprised i don't know elderberry is like a very specific flavor you know i think this is this is less for pleasure and more for like immunity boosting is what this one tasted like a little bit like medicine you're not an elderberry girly yeah yeah and the mixture of cherry this is no shade Jennifer Gardner I love you and once upon a farm obsessed with pouches just for me as an adult I was surprised I gagged a little bit and then ran in here to record this podcast and that is my story and that's all I have for you guys pouches make me gag in general the texture so you're not alone this one's not gonna lie you do all right like the applesauce ones I do too give me a strawberry applesauce pouchy you know like right now I can I have one in my pocket to be honest with you from bedtime and i have to say i'm really excited about today's podcast because i've been kind of obsessively looking at all of the tiktoks and different takes and different articles written about the wall street journal article and so i'm happy dina and i haven't even talked about it and so it's exciting no obviously i'm so excited either because he doesn't care about child development right i mean i care just like give me the tools okay yeah you You know, we'd love you in the game.

9:12I'm not in the research gang. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, let's do it. Let's talk about it. The two most important people in our household are not actually people. They're dogs. OK, there are dogs, taco and noodle. There are kids favorite people in the entire world. They are my favorite people in the entire world. We truly treat our dogs like little kings that they are. And that's why we're obsessed with Sundays. So Sundays is fresh dog dog food made from a short list of human grade ingredients. It contains 90 % meat and 10 % superfoods, 0 % synthetic nutrients or artificial ingredients. I'm obsessed with keeping especially little taco healthy because he's older and the noodle is a crazy puppy.

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14:52Parenting right now is a war zone on the internet. Oh my god, it is wild out there. I hate it. Yeah. Honest to god, I will be scrolling. One reel says you need to stay calm and validate your kid mid meltdown, you know, similar vibes as what we say. The next one is like your kid doesn't need validation. They need consequences. We need to bring the hammer down. We your kid is, you know, soft and blah, blah, blah. It is all over the place. Like as a parent, I feel like we're all stuck in between. Am I being too soft? Am I screwing them up? Do I need to be harder? Do I need to be softer? I feel like every comment section I've been seeing is like kids today need discipline they're like gentle parenting's weak my parents hit me and i turned out fine and meanwhile like i'm just trying to get you know my kid to eat their broccoli without it turning into a whole thing this is gonna be the one that gets me uninvited to this podcast oh my okay my eyes just go for it i'm so curious what are you about to do are we about to get a divorce?

15:56I think we're on the same side. Okay, we're going to find out. That's my thing. You can't do that. That's my thing. I'm the one that gets the divorce. You're the one. No, this topic, it infuriates me and makes my blood boil. Oh, give a little tidbit. It's just this whole fucking thing of extremes of gentle parenting is weak. go, this one is blah, blah, blah. It's like just all of you shut the fuck up. Okay. Because it's all based on judgment. Okay. That's all it is. You got besties, you know, we're not here to be like, you're fucking doing it wrong. No, we're about like, take what works and leave what doesn't.

16:41And every one of these stupid articles from the Wall Street Journal or the New York Times or whoever all up on their high horse. And it's some opinion writer. See, this is where it happens. Now they're coming after us. Now they're big time. Go ahead. They're probably listening. Go ahead. They probably are. Sorry, New York Times. I'm sorry, Wall Street Journal. We appreciate all of your work. And it's all just click based of whatever is trendy right now is wrong. Okay. I feel like you touched on it. I got more. I'm going. Okay, go. Okay, go. If it was the other way around, if it was the push your kid in the lake parenting, they'd be like, what's wrong?

17:18pushing your kid in the lake parenting is trendy right now. But did you know that you're fucking around and finding out and you should be gentle parenting instead? It would be the exact same articles, just the other way around. And it's just like, guys, I get it. You need the ad revenue. But just chill because all it's doing. No, all it's doing is making moms so upset with themselves and with each other. I actually, first of all, I very much agree with you. I also want to say in New York Times, Wall Street Journal. Hey, sorry. We love you. You know, great. I mean, I'm down with it, but also come on.

17:55I just don't want them the right articles. OK, but more importantly, I agree with that. And I even kind of agree with that on Instagram where where Wall Street Journal, New York Times, blah, blah. They need ad revenue. And here's the truth. Parenting content just doesn't slap anymore. OK, you can go and look at our thing and it's our page. And we're not, you know, we're not going viral every second the way that perhaps we were in 2020 when everybody was trapped at home with their kids. And so I also think that on Instagram, in order to capture anybody's attention or the audience, they have to go to such extremes to get somebody to stop and engage with their algorithm.

18:31And I really think that is where all of these extremes are coming from. It is in the news and it is on Instagram is we are looking at extremes and extremes don't work. Not in parenting, not in anything. And science doesn't support permissive parenting, which is the one extreme. And science doesn't support authoritarian parenting, which is the other extreme. So let's cut through the noise and get to the facts about what kind of parenting actually works based on science and not these extreme sort of headlines. Kristen, you nailed it. Let's just break this down together. You know I love some research.

19:12You know I love some science. Okay. Psychologists have studied parenting styles for decades. This isn't new. They've studied them across cultures, across income levels, across generations. And what we've consistently found is this. The most effective parenting style is called authoritative. It's high warmth. It's high structure. It's not authoritarian, which is like high control and low warmth, right? Where we're bossing our kids around. We're making them feel like shit. We're scaring them so that they listen to us. It's not permissive, which is just high warmth and low structure where we're all about feelings.

19:49There's nothing else. We're scared to make them feel sad by saying no to them. That's not it either. And it's definitely not neglectful parenting, which is just low everything. Okay. So authoritative parenting leads to better regulation. It leads to better academic achievement, stronger mental health, more empathy, more social skills, lower risk of depression, anxiety, behavioral issues. We could go on and on. But what we're ultimately saying, the best parenting style is a mix. We have to be validating our kids' emotions. We have to be having boundaries and limits. That's what helps kids feel safe.

20:30Do you ever think as a therapist and also a normal person that they that they really did a shitty job of naming these parenting styles? Because I you all you see on the internet, you're like authoritarian, authoritative. It's like, why are you calling it authoritative? Because it sounds exactly like authoritarian. And now everybody's really confused because you're like, oh, authoritative is the best parenting style based on science. So I'm going to go spank my kid and then leave them in the bathroom for four hours because it sounds like I should be punishing them. I remember learning about this in grad school and even then in grad school learning about it.

21:09I was like, we couldn't come up with something better than these names like these are. It's very confusing in the world. Gentle parenting, I think, is supposed to be the closest to authoritative parenting. parenting, but it has at times been rebranded as permissive parenting, which is the kid is walking all over you. You have no rules. You have no structure. And so you're creating these kids that are out of control. So I don't know what we need to call this kind of parenting. But according to research, it is called technically authoritative parenting. And authoritative parenting isn't soft. it's strong.

21:49It's the parenting style that actually works, not because it feels good, but because it literally changes brain development. This is validating feelings. This is holding boundaries. This is being the strong, competent leader of the home that you are. The feelings are not running the show. OK, you are running the show and feelings are still being validated while those boundaries are being held. That's technically called authoritative parenting and what we know works according to the research. And here is what does not work according to science, no matter how popular it is online, fear-based parenting.

22:25So let's talk about the fuck around and find out side of the internet debate. What you're really hearing there is called authoritarian parenting, high control, low empathy, fear-based obedience. We're talking yelling, screaming, threats, timeouts, spanking. I often see where we just saw that article that we were actually quoting influencers who can't wait to spank their eight month old child. Oh, yeah. Oh, I read it. Here's what the science says happens when fear enters the picture. The prefrontal cortex, the part of the brain that helps with emotional regulation, logic and empathy, it literally shuts down.

23:03So kids go into fight, flight or freeze. They don't internalize better behavior. They're actually just freezing in order to avoid the punishment. That's not learning. That's survival. It seems like it's working in the moment because when you scream at them, when you are doing something that's going to elicit fear, they technically stop. They stop and freeze for a second. And that's why we think, quote unquote it works but it's just them going into freeze dina just dropped off of the podcast we'll be back momentarily another word from our sponsor do you ever feel like you don't get it done when you're wiping stop why is it always the tushy could you do something else are you hungry but you have are you hungry today odds are yes if you're anything like me you get hungry if you're You like to eat every day.

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28:56Don't settle for less than evidence-based support. Get 25 % off your first month at ritual.com slash feelings. Start Ritual or add essential prenatal to your subscription today. That's ritual.com slash feelings for 25 % off. Hi, I don't know what happened, but I'm back. Okay, so anyways, when you really look at it, decades of research link authoritarian parenting with higher rates of anxiety and depression, with increased aggression and defiance, lower self-esteem, difficulty with emotional regulation in relationships. But the thing is, these kids, they may comply in the moment, but they don't feel safe enough to thrive.

29:41And that's really important. Did anybody else here grow up in an authoritarian household? No. Okay. Dina? I had some tactics. I had like a mix. Mine was actually a bit confusing in some ways because it was really, really loving and gentle at certain moments. And then very authoritarian in other moments of like, listen, you better listen to me or I'm canceling that play date. or you're not going like, you know, fuck around and find out. Okay. So that's not a great mix to have. It's very confusing for a kid when the scary stuff is happening with the person who's also soft and gentle. It's very, very confusing.

30:20I knew what was coming. You know, I was just scared all the time. So, and I did not turn out fine. I'm going to be that person on the internet that's in the comments saying like, well, my parents did this. Well, that's because you're not shoving it all down. Right. Right. Authoritarian parenting makes you want to shove it all down. Yes, I correct. I did shove everything down. I still tend to shove everything down. And moving on to the other side of parenting, which talk to us about permissive parenting, which in terms of the Wall Street Journal debate, parental parenting versus fuck around parenting, they're throwing gentle parenting into the permissive parenting bucket.