I Have Postpartum Depression, and I’m Still Struggling to Find My Way Out

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14:23Kristin:Where am I? No. How am I feeling about it? Honestly, a little bit of relief because it feels really nice to just be me and be really honest about what's been going on. And sometimes I think being a therapist, I feel like this added kind of pressure sometimes to have it all together and be thriving and be resilient. And sometimes I'm just a human who's having a hard time because postpartum life is it's hard. It's intense. Even on the best day, it's a roller coaster ride for someone.

14:57Deena:Well, I'm happy to hear about it only because I'm not happy to hear that you have it. I'm happy that you're sharing. I also think it's so isolating when you don't share it. And I know we have a unique job where we can share with a lot of people, but you are choosing to share vulnerably sort of in the middle of it before, you know, everything is wrapped up neat and tidy. And there's no right or wrong choice to choosing to share now, like in the midst of it or choosing after. But is that part of the relief that you're feeling is sharing sort of now while you're going through it.

15:35Kristin:Yeah, I find it really hard to honestly do anything and kind of like fake stuff. I've never been good at that. You can always kind of read my poker face, whether I like it or not. So it feels really nice to be able to just like show up as my whole self. And honestly, when I first shared this on our Instagram page, something really incredible happened, which is and I was pretty embarrassed actually to share that because I was like really just I couldn't keep it together and so many moms wrote into me and shared their stories of just like this was me I went through this I'm in this right now and I feel so alone like thank you so much for being honest and I think it woke something up in me honestly where it's like listen I'm gonna share this, even though I have a lot of feelings, mixed feelings about it and feel a little bit embarrassed at times again.

16:35Kristin:But if it helps even just one person listening to feel less alone or feel less broken because postpartum depression will trick you into that, trick you into thinking that you're a worthless piece of shit, honestly. Or if it's that loving nudge that maybe somebody needs to go get help, then it's 100 % worth it. So I'm happy to be here.

17:00Deena:And let's just normalize this for a second, because when you're in it, you feel like you are a piece of shit. You feel like you are the only one who is struggling. You're like, oh, I saw one DM that was like, you are the big little feelings. You are the mom and you seem so perfect and put together. You, not me. And I can't believe that you struggle with the same thing I struggle with. And that changed everything of how I look at myself. So thank you. And that was the one I have tingles even thinking about it. That was the one for me. Oh, that was the one for me. Because the truth is, is that postpartum depression affects approximately 10 to 20 % of women globally, with around one in eight women in the US reporting symptoms.

17:48Deena:So this is so much more common, you know, than we all really know. And I think luckily stories like yours are starting to get more airtime. Thank God, because can you imagine having postpartum depression in like the 80s? Oh, God. We're not OK. Oh, no. Oh, no. OK, so start from the beginning or start with where it feels comfortable. This is your journey. take us through this?

18:16Kristin:You know, I look back and I think I tried really hard to be resilient. Like I thought I was ready. This is my third kid, my third postpartum. As you know, if you've been listening to our podcast, I worked really, really hard in couples therapy to set up systems with my husband because the last two postpartum periods almost took us down, man. We were headed towards divorce after those ones. So we were like working really hard to have better communication and be a real team where he's sharing the load of the housework, the childcare. We've got all these systems set up, better support. And then I know what to expect, right?

19:00Kristin:This is my third go-round. I've seen the hard. And just because you've seen the hard doesn't mean it's not hard. And I feel like I just kind of rode the waves as best I could. I got a baby who nonstop screamed his head off because he had reflux until we figured that out. Right. I'm like, OK, that's not going to bring me down. I'm going to figure it out and keep advocating. OK, we figured that one out and now we've got to get the tongue tie release. OK, let's go do it. I got this. You know, I've been through this before. So I'm like taking punch after punch. I get mastitis. I get it again. And I finally I finally make the decision to stop pumping, which at the time, I'm so glad we recorded that podcast episode.

19:44Kristin:I look back now and I'm like, duh, of course that was the right decision for my mental health. So I could actually show up as a functioning mother. Yes. But at the time that too was all consuming. It's a really emotional decision. And I was very torn, but I did the brave thing for me at that moment and what ultimately was the right thing and stopped pumping. So I feel like I had just kind of taken punch after punch, but I was still standing. And I was like, okay, okay, that was hard, but I got this. And then around four months postpartum, so not at the very beginning, but four months in, which is really about a month and a half or so after I had stopped pumping, I got my cycle back.

20:31Kristin:Something started to shift. And day by day, I was feeling really tired and burnt out. And I kept thinking, oh, man, that was a hard day. But you know what? I'm just going to rest as much as I can. I'm going to sleep tonight as much as I can and wake up tomorrow. And I'm sure I'm going to feel different and feel better. And I didn't. It just kept going. And I was trying to use all my tools. I'm meditating. I'm like, hey, Mike, take the kids. I'm going to rest more. Nothing seemed to be working until it escalated pretty quickly at a certain point. It's like things were hard, hard, hard, then dropped off a cliff for me, where all of a sudden I was walking around with just like nonstop tears in my eyes.

21:23Kristin:No matter what was going on, where I was, I just was right on the verge of crying and was crying like most of the day.

21:30Deena:Like sobbing, like sobbing with a bottle, sobbing, walking around, just breaking out into like sobs. Yeah.

21:40Kristin:And I could not figure out why, which is for me, like really frustrating. I always want to, I like being self-aware and insightful. So I'm digging in. I'm like, what is going on? What is happening to me? I don't feel good. I cannot pinpoint it. And I mean, postpartum really is, it's the biggest hormonal shift that someone is going to go through in their entire life, the biggest, fastest elevator drop of hormones. So I know that's part of it too, especially when you stop pumping, right? Or you stop your milk, there's a hormone kind of shift that happens then too. On top of just this nonstop barrage of taking care of a newborn, which I know some people really love that phase, I have always found it really hard and really challenging because of the nonstop demands and the exhaustion.

22:34Kristin:So for me, it's always been hard. And by the way, the hormone piece is just one part of it. It's not even like, it's definitely not, say, a root cause of all PPD. A lot of times you look into the support and it's a mom who's carrying everything on her own. Was it kind of like, you know, when you were in college, Kristen, actually, I don't know if you're going to relate to this because I don't know if you did all your work in your finals and your papers.

22:58Deena:No, not where I thought we were going when we said, remember, in college, I'm like, yes, all nighters, partying, drugs. What do we got? What are we going to compare this to? Go ahead. Okay.

23:09Kristin:You know, when you had a final paper due and people, I didn't do this personally because I did my papers two weeks in advance, little by little. That's my style. But most people would stay up all night and like, you know, they're like trying to get that paper done and you're dragging and you're just pushing to your limits. And then you turn that paper in and you're free. You're done with that semester. You're out, baby. And that's when you get knocked on your ass with some sort of sickness and you're like, out. You know what I mean? So was it like the postpartum kind of version of that where it's like, man, I did all this hard shit and like, oh, God, now it's all done and I'm collapsing.

23:51Kristin:I'm done, you know.

23:53Deena:And just to clarify, medically, there doesn't have to be any reason for postpartum disorders. They can just happen. So you definitely can have postpartum depression, postpartum anxiety, postpartum OCD. And you've done everything right. And it is not hormonal. It is not related to any kind of a struggle. You can have everything locked in perfectly and still get a postpartum disorder. Yeah, definitely. But I hear you. I always want to know the why. That's something both of us are good at and bad at. You know, it's not like we can just we can just be like, all right this is what I have now we are like I'm gonna relentlessly figure this shit out sometimes just can't figure it out no I mean that's like surrender and be like okay well

24:46Kristin:I'm not okay now what which is really what I experienced it was like day after day relentless crying and falling apart and this is the part that I'm actually like have I guess the most shame to speak about. And I'm trying to move past that because I know that shame just, it lives in the silence, man. So I just couldn't show up as the mom I wanted to be. And I was falling apart in front of my kids. I couldn't function. I couldn't take care of them. I couldn't respond to them. I was yelling, which I'm not, I've worked. I want to say I'm not a but deep down under there, that is my wiring from my own childhood.

25:29Kristin:And I've worked really, really hard to not be a yeller day to day. And damn, I was falling apart. Honestly, that's what started the spiral, I think, to go even deeper in the postpartum depression is like, I feel bad. I'm struggling now with me showing up and impacting my kids this way. Like, oh my God. And that's when I started to go to this like deep, dark place that I just couldn't pull myself out of, I feel like, where after those moments, I'm like, that's it. I ruined it. Everything's ruined. They are damaged. I'm a shitty ass mom. They don't deserve this. I should not be here. And it just builds until eventually I was going to bed and I was like, I genuinely don't want to be here anymore.

26:21Kristin:And I was walking around like just dreading waking up the next day. And it was just sitting on me like suffocating me. And I remember telling Mike, I can't breathe. I can't breathe anymore.

26:38Deena:I wish I could give you a hug. We're not right now.

26:42Kristin:I know. There was one night that really just like healed the shame for me. We're putting the boys to bed and it was after I had had one of those rough moments where I yelled at them. And, you know, I feel like I feel like there's making mistakes in day to day parenting where you're like, you know what? Hey, I'm sorry I got overwhelmed and I yelled at you. This one was like those really deep ones where you're like, God damn, I scared you. I made you feel sad. And like none of it is you. This is all me. I wish I wish I could really help you understand that. And so I had one of those and we're putting the boys to bed.

27:25Kristin:and I said again I had already you know gone through the repair with them where I was like boys you know I'm so sorry for what happened I'm having a hard time and Mike stepped in and he was like you know what mommy it's okay you already said sorry and just like I always tell the boys to go gentle on themselves when they make a mistake the same thing goes for you mommy be nice to yourself. You were having a hard time and you are having a hard time. We love you. And we're always going to be your family. And we're going to get through this. And I'm literally like sobbing. I'm sobbing.

28:03Deena:How healing. How healing is that to hear? Holy shit. Oh, my God. Yeah.

28:10Kristin:He really stepped up in that moment. Oh, my God. Yeah. And was just such a supportive partner. And in hindsight, this is exactly what I needed at that moment was like, not only to hear that, then he took it a step further and he's like, Hey, like, you're not okay. I love you. Why don't you take some time for yourself? Just take some space. I'm going to take all the parenting for us. I'm going to pack every lunch. I will take them to school. I will handle dinners, like every bath. You just focus on you so you can understand what might be helpful for you right now. It's like, oh, my God, what a gift.

28:49Kristin:Yeah. Because really at that point, I mean, I just couldn't function. And Kristen, I feel like I mean, you know this. I was texting you like nonstop and I just couldn't stop saying I just didn't think this was going to happen to me. And you very wisely reminded me, I don't think anyone does.

29:11Deena:I know I know because it's like what we were saying earlier where if we just put the right things in the right places then everything will be okay and sometimes it's just not and sometimes we just can't fix it we can't prevent it I also remember you saying a lot about the motherhood piece when you were in it. That was so hard for me as the bystander to hear how you really did feel like everything was kind of over in that moment because of the depression just taking over. And this is before we, we, you had titled it depression, right? We didn't know what was going on, but you were just like, I have fucked everything up.

29:57Deena:I'm fucking everything up every day. I shouldn't even be around them. So I'm not going to be around them. And oh, man, I just have chills thinking about it because you have a four month old baby and there's just it's so much. It's so much. And there was just no there was no grace because I don't think depression gives you grace. It only gives you shame. Oh, my God. Yeah.

30:22Kristin:And I mean, I mean, I guess this is how I knew that it was time to get help. I couldn't eat. I couldn't sleep anymore. And I was so exhausted, but I was up all night no matter what. I mean, I was sad. I felt genuinely, genuinely hopeless. Like, what is the point of life? I have fucked it all up. There is no point in going on. And honestly, this whole family would be better off without me at this point. And I just felt like I couldn't make it stop. Like no matter what I tried, it just wasn't working. I kept like meditating and monitoring to myself like, okay, I'm going to stay grounded. I'm going to, you know, see their behavior as normal four-year-old behavior.

31:08Kristin:It's not going to shake me. And it did like instantly I was crumbling. And that's when I knew I was like, okay, we just got to run, run and get help as fast as you can.

31:19Deena:Those dark thoughts, I know that you have struggled with that before. And it's something that I don't think a lot of people say out loud that they struggle with. We know so many people who struggle with that. And I want to normalize it for anybody listening, meaning normalize that it happens, normalize getting help. My dad obviously took his own life. And so there was not a time that he said to me, I'm not okay, or I'm thinking of this, or I'm having thoughts like I shouldn't exist here anymore. And for you to catch that so quickly and realize and say to your friend and say to your husband, I don't think I should be here anymore.

32:02Deena:Those really scary thoughts that we are just like, you can't say that out loud. They're going to like, I can't say that out loud. But the fact that you said it out loud, I think is the bravest thing that you could possibly do and the bravest thing you can possibly do for your children, by the way, as somebody who lost a parent to suicide, like I cannot emphasize to you or anyone listening how important it is to say out loud and how strong and how brave you are, not how weak you are for having the thought of wanting to leave. That's not weakness. And saying it out loud is like literally going to changed your children's entire lives.

32:40Yeah. Yeah.

32:41Kristin:And now looking back, it's so clear that feeling was just complete overwhelm and hopelessness. And depression. And depression. And straight up depression. Yeah. Feeling like there is no way out and this is not going to get better.

32:57Deena:And everything else would be better off if I could just disappear. Like check, check, check depression, the lies that your brain is telling you. You got help right away. I mean, tell us about this.

33:13Kristin:Yes. Because even as I was going through it, thank goodness, from my therapist kind of lens 100 feet out watching myself as like red flag, red flag, let's go. Just run, run to get help. And so I did. I called my doctor and I had that moment, you know, when they walk you through the checklist and they're like, do you have thoughts of hurting yourself? And I'm like, I sure do. And it's so hard to say out loud, but I did. And she was really, really loving and didn't make me feel embarrassed or shameful about it. Just super supportive. And we decided to dig into a few kind of, you know, body medical things on our side.

33:57Kristin:Take a look over there. But then I know too, being a therapist, there are certain tools like EMDR can be really, really effective for a situation like this. So fired that back up, called up the guy who helped me when I was going through my last postpartum because I had more postpartum anxiety during that one. I kept having reoccurring dreams that my kids were not safe and not okay, no matter what I did. So EMDR was super helpful then. So fired that back up. got it in motion and then also you know in our conversations I'm so glad we had them I decided to reach out to a psychiatrist as well in case that became the right fit for this period and I know there are there's a certain medication even for postpartum depression that can be really really effective what's it called yes it's called I think it's called Zerzave is how you say it, I'm pretty sure.

34:55Deena:Really, really effective. I wish I would have come out of the hospital on that. Yeah. Truly.

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39:41Deena:Okay, so you have a psychiatrist on standby.

39:43Kristin:So yeah, I'm trying a few different things. The EMDR is definitely helping. It's helping me stay more stable and have a better bandwidth right now as I continue to figure this out. And I'm also trying to support my hormones because those were very off balance, we found out. But overall, I still feel very fragile right now is the way I would put it. I feel really delicate and sensitive, like I can't overdo it. I feel not so hopeless anymore, but I don't feel back to my normal self. I still feel kind of low grade kind of sadness in the background, even though now I'm having more of these kind of, you know, joyful moments with my kids.

40:22Kristin:But there is kind of this background noise still that I'm trying to move my way through.

40:30Deena:And how is it on a scale of one to 10? How I mean, this is a weird question, but as somebody who was in it well like how how scary is it for you right now obviously when we met up and when we were at that we were at it we were at a 10 you know and I've been there I was at a 10 like 10 where you're just like that call to the doctor you'll remember for the rest of your life of just being like not okay I'm not okay so today where are we at where are you at I should say today I

41:03Kristin:would say probably like like a four. I'm trying to keep my demands as low as possible. I'm trying to like stay offline, honestly, as much as possible and just day to day be really intentional about how much I'm doing, how much where my effort is going, where my energy is going. I need to rest more and still have Mike sometimes just step in and like take the load on days where I feel like I'm super low because what I notice is I, like many people who have gone through traumatic stuff in their life, have an ability to dissociate, honestly, when I get overloaded. And so that is what I'm keeping my eye on is like when I get overloaded as a mom, if I feel like I'm dissociating, how can I have my step in so I can reset, ground myself and come back to being present and OK?

41:54Kristin:And sometimes you can't. You got to take a break or sometimes you can't. You've got to throw on the TV because you can't take a break. You have to, you know, take it really easy, order in that night. So I'm trying to do more of that as I work my way through it.

42:09Deena:Well, I am really proud of you, especially it's not easy for you of all people to take it easy. I heard a lot of words about rest and asking for help and offsetting your load. And I have known you a long, long time. And that has never been part of your vocabulary ever. All out of my

42:31Kristin:comfort zone, friend.

42:34Deena:Rest means baking 17 pies in 45 minutes. Are you cringing right now because you're still doing that? Yes. The answer is yes. Your face.

42:46Kristin:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We made a chocolate pie the other day while I was watching all three of them by myself. I was like, this is a way to cope, right? I'm coping.

42:56Deena:This is rest. Oh, God. Okay. Well, as someone who has struggled with this before and as your best friend, I'm really proud of you. You're doing great. Recovering from postpartum depression, depression in general, it's not easy. It's not linear. That's what I I would also tell you or anyone listening, which is it's not going to be instantaneous boop and everything is all better. So I'm really proud of you for listening to what you need, for being open to what you may need even in the future. Hopefully we just keep going up, up and up. But I'm always here for you while you're going up, Molly Stumble, anything that may happen and all the besties listening.

43:43Deena:Same for you. You keep going. You keep going on up. you know what I mean? And reach out, get help. Also, I think the biggest message here is you, Dina, and you besties are not a bad mom. Like, you guys are great moms. And this is biological, happens to one in eight. It is nothing you did. There is nothing you could have done to prevent it. It is not your fault. Your symptoms, meaning your irritability, your anger, your short-temperedness, Those are symptoms. That is not a choice. And it doesn't make you a bad mom. It makes you a human being who needs to get help. It's just a signal. So if you've been struggling with this for a while, get help.

44:29Deena:And it also could be not postpartum depression. Anybody who's listening and they're three years in, five years in, same, same girl, same. Yeah.

44:37Kristin:And you know, it's so funny now because I was panicked, OK, about what had happened with my kids. And the other day, now that I'm more stable, which is really my number one goal, like if I could just pick one thing to get a grasp on and be just being able to show up as like the safe mom that I want to be. and I circled back with the kids and I was like hey guys you know you remember a few weeks ago when I was really I was having a hard time I was crying I was yelling I'm so sorry and they were like what are you talking about and I was like you remember when I was I couldn't stop crying and they're like no like I don't know what you're talking about we're good and I was like okay

45:21Deena:and you've been like beating yourself up silently for weeks ever since. For weeks, for weeks, for weeks.

45:27Kristin:And what I do know too is as a therapist, as I zoom out, I do know that literally the kids are not fucked up. You have not damaged your kids. I have not damaged them. You have not damaged them. Repair is always possible and you can work through these things. And that is why we show up every single day is we have that great foundation. And then there's moments like this in real life and we're going to be OK.

45:52Deena:So if you are struggling in any way, if you are recognizing yourself anywhere in Dina's amazing, vulnerable story, if you're recognizing feelings of dread, uncontrollable crying, intrusive thoughts, feeling like you want to disappear, I really want you to know, A, you're not broken. B, you're not a bad mom. That's what we're talking about. It may not feel like it while you are drowning in it, but depression, it's treatable. It's treatable. You can overcome it with help. And help, this is what I needed to hear, that help is not something that you need to earn. You don't need to try every single fix before you reach out for help.

46:39Deena:You also don't have to hit rock bottom. I did, but you don't have to. So if you are starting to struggle, if something inside of you is like, oh, this sounds kind of like me, you don't have to wait. You don't have to minimize it. You don't have to wait until it gets really, really bad. Call your doctor. Call your OB. Call a therapist. Say the words postpartum depression or depression or struggling. And you can also call or text 988 anytime. And that's the Postpartum Support International. They will connect you to real humans who understand this. And you don't have to figure this out alone. That's really beautiful.

47:13Deena:Dina, I love you. Dina, I love you too. You're the best. You're the best mom. You're going to be great. And this is a hard moment.

47:22Kristin:Yeah.

47:22Deena:Yeah, but we're going to get through it. We're going to get through it.

47:25Kristin:And I'm always here for you. Thanks. And the besties. Besties, thank you. And we'll see you soon.

47:51Kristin:Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.

48:06Deena:Hey, I'm Josh Peck. And I'm Ben Sopper. And we're the good guys. On our show, every week we talk about buzzy pop culture stories. Maybe answer a couple of your voicemails. And go into a moment of the week that makes you say, what are you, nuts? And I swear it's so much better than this promo. Anyway, there's a lot of guys out there, but we're the good ones. Stream good guys every Monday, wherever you get your podcasts. Apple, Spotify, anywhere. You know what? Don't listen.