PBS KIDS Isn’t “Just TV.” It’s a Lifeline, and It’s Being Defunded.

28:49So during No Child Left Behind, it was focused on literacy. During the Obama years, it was focused on STEM, you know, but on core skills to get kids ready for school. So that grant program was terminated in May. And so in effect, it is a$30 million cut annually to PBS Kids between those two programs. So we have been defunded by the federal government. the effects have been have been real we've had to cut a lot of staff we've cut almost 30 percent of the team at pbs kids our pipeline like shows in development has been cut back quite a bit and we were talking earlier about research and how we do research for the field all of that was funded by the federal government and so that is something that had stopped like there were research studies out in the field for the show Work It Out Wombats and about to start for the show Lila in the Loop and was pencils down.

29:50Those just ended. So we're in like, we're in a moment where some of the things that the public has really benefited from that aren't as obvious, like the research findings that then get published and universities can use those, like students studying child development, read those, you know, there's a great body of work out there, but there's very little new going to happen like in the near future on PBS Kids because of those funding cuts. And it means we can't do as much R &D on new platforms as - And what is R &D? Research and development, sorry. You know, where we're thinking about, like I mentioned to how like PBS Kids has always been an innovative and kind of experimental place, like really looking at media and thinking like, how would we do something with this new technology that's going to benefit kids?

30:43I mean, that all of that funding was coming out of this Ready to Learn grant because it was really trying to think about, it was Congress saying, we want someone to be looking at the media landscape in a non-commercial environment and think about how you could use these technologies for good. And so all of that has been cut off. We continue to have philanthropic support, member stations through this fall, like as the funding cuts were announced. I mean, just so many people in communities started reaching out and supporting their local stations. We have gotten unbelievable letters from families.

31:22Just yesterday, we opened a letter from a kid written in crayon that incorporated a$10 bill, you know, saying how much he loved PBS Kids. And this is what his family is sending to try to support kids doing lemonade stands. You know, this is hard. This is a lot for us to try to kind of to grapple with in this moment about how do we keep all of this work going forward while also seeing this huge outpouring of public support, which has been amazing. Just there is so much parent trust and excitement around our content and a lot of people who don't want it to go away. And I think something that is not as often mentioned, but I was reading about is the education that you PBS kids is providing for kids who don't have access to even books or high quality educational programs.

32:22Of course, you know, we in a privileged position are like, hey, I cannot lose PBS Kids because my kids learn from you and they love Daniel Tiger and they're learning all social, emotional, they're learning letters, they're learning all of this. But I think part of what's really devastating for me to hear about the funding cuts is knowing how involved PBS Kids is helping educate kids who are in underserved areas that just simply wouldn't have the access to the educational tools that they actually are having through PBS Kids. We're cutting off sort of all of that education for those kids. Mm-hmm.

32:59Yes, this is one of the many things that I really worry about is these are kids who are less likely to have good broadband at home and are less likely to have access to high quality pre-K. So we know that the content of these shows and these games can make up deficits. Like you can see it. And if anyone's interested, like these research studies are public information. They're public. They're like in journals and child development journals that show like there are statistically significant gains in literacy knowledge and in math knowledge by engaging with PBS Kids content. So we know it can make a difference.

33:42Kids who don't have great access to broadband, we through the years have been able to create our apps so that they could be used in and out of Wi-Fi. And that's one of the things that we just had to drop on the games app. We definitely have like there's some funders who might be interested in helping us get that back up, but those are the kinds of things that are going to just start to degrade a little bit, just access. Our member stations are out there in those communities and are continuing to try to deliver. Our hope is that we aren't going to have stations go under during this time because they are serving those kids in those communities.

34:19And also thinking about the things we do for kids who often are kind of forgotten in the media landscape. So last year, before all the funding cuts, we worked really closely with several producers to create American Sign Language interpretations of shows. So, you know, we've seen that where you've got like a signer in the corner, but they were thinking about What if this is for a preschooler who can't read yet and who is processing information differently than a grownup? So you can't do a lot of fingerspelling. You can't expect them to be able to cover everything that's happening on screen. How would you do this interpretation differently?

35:01And did a lot of research with kids. And if you watch some of it, like if you watch an episode of Arthur with the ASL interpretation, you'll see the interpreter is wearing a yellow sweater and is wearing big glasses like Arthur and is really emoting the way that the characters do, kind of bringing so much to this interpretation. organization it's a beautiful project it's had like i mean the community the deaf and hard of hearing community has really just come out to say this is so helpful this is a game changer for so many kids and for so many parents we've learned that parents often would stand by the tv and interpret for their kids and now the parent can sit on the couch and watch it with their kids you know like be a part of that media experience and not worry that their kid is going to miss basic things.

35:50So long story to say, you know, when that grant was terminated, that project got halted. And we are so grateful that philanthropic support very quickly came in from an individual who was like, no, this is too important. And we were able to finish that workout. But to your point, this is what really worries me is that we are thinking about all kids in a way that like most media is not. And we want to make sure that all kids are able to like kind of learn and grow from this content. And with these cuts, you're just basically doing everything you can to stay afloat. But if I'm understanding correctly, it's really going to impede sort of doing the next version of this, the next version of, OK, the deaf and hard of hearing community, let's do a whole project around this.

36:41That takes funding, that takes all of the research, that takes all of that. And those are really what's also at jeopardy here with the funding cuts is you sort of are now just in survival mode of like, let's let's try to not shut the stations down and just kind of keep things are the way they are. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I think there's there's some really great news here. Like, I want to be really clear to everyone. Like, we are still here. I mean, there's when people heard that CPP was shutting down, it was like a huge assumption that that meant the PBS kids was going away and we're not. And this is part of this weird, wacky public media in the United States structure that it wasn't all federal dollars.

37:21It was also community support, donations from individuals and foundations and corporate underwriters as well. So, you know, we have this ecosystem of funding, which means we're able to kind of lean on some of the other pieces. And we have a really great library of content. You know, like we have all of these 10 seasons of Daniel Tiger. We have the 10 years of Daniel Tiger. We have like all of these seasons of Arthur. We have all this content that we can continue to deliver. And people aren't going to see a big break in how they play with the PBS Kids video app or the PBS Kids games app. But we really like it's the future that starts to get really more in jeopardy here in terms of like how much more new content are we going to be able to create?

38:09yes kids love to watch things over and over again but they also need to be seeing content that is timely and meeting them where they are you know like we're in an age of like ai explosion we need storylines in episodes where kids are grappling with the question of like if the computer helped me with my art project is it still my project we need kids to learn how to write ask the right questions to get the information they need. Like there's, there's so much to learn in this environment that we can address through storytelling. And that's, that's what starts to really get me worried. It's like, how do we continue to be this, this entity who's has kids at the center, who's thinking about it from their needs.

38:57And something that comes to my mind as, a moment that I, as a parent, was so grateful for during Black Lives Matter. PBS Kids is the one that you, every parent is, what do I say? Do I say anything? How do I say it? How do we explain this? Even Martin Luther King Day. I want my kid to have some education around this, but I'm not sure how far to go. I don't know what to say. Even I don't know all the facts, you know. So something that I am so grateful for is, for example, after Black Lives Matter, you all did put together a sort of little programming piece that I was able to watch with my children.

39:39And it was very age appropriate. And I don't it wasn't specifically about George Floyd. It wasn't specifically about Black Lives Matter, but it was about sort of a larger picture and to be able to share with your children in an age-appropriate way some of the common themes of like what we value as a family and what, you know, people with different skin colors, what they face and how we interact. And I think there was even a moment where someone, you know, a Black child was being bullied by white and being made fun of for their skin color. And you saw someone step in and really protect them. It was a really beautiful and moving piece that PBS kids had done that I could show my children.

40:22And that's one thing that I fear with the funding cut is the world is really fast paced. There are so many things happening in the world. And I always turn to PBS kids and say, what have they put out here yet? And if they haven't, then it probably means maybe I don't have to talk to my kid about, you know, the tsunami that's in Indonesia that's horrible. And let's try to help as much as we can. But I really completely rely on PBS Kids as the trusted resource of, okay, if they have put out something, this is amazing. And I've been worrying how to talk about it. Let's watch this together. Yeah. I'm so happy to hear this because there is like, we're always really talking to parents and listening to what the needs are.

41:08And also, you know, going back again to Mr. Rogers, he was one of the pioneers in saying like, when something scary is going on, And like, there's a way to talk to kids about it. Like, look for the helpers. I've heard that come up so much recently. And that's coming right out of his playbook. We similarly really thought about like, there's so much anxiety among young children right now. And we are hearing that from parents. We're hearing that from experts. And so being able to think about like, how do you address mental health through our content? A lot of it is there. and you know Daniel Tiger has moments where you say like okay take a deep breath Elmo has breathing like there were ways for us to pull that together and really be more intentional about saying this is going to be helpful for you but I think too a wonderful thing that you are mentioning is that parents and kids talking together is something that can make such a difference I mean that is like decades of research that if a parent has a conversation with a kid while they're watching about what it is, the learning gains are going to be greater.

42:17And we learned during COVID that that could even be an asynchronous conversation. The learning gains will still be there. It's really about talking about it that can make such a difference. And we want that to happen. And we to think about ways that parents can use this with their kids. I think it's so helpful. I even remember the COVID ones. You had mask series. You had, I mean, there were so, how do you explain what is happening? Again, I think as adults, as parents, we want to shield our kids so much, not always the healthiest because the kids can feel your anxiety. They can see things going on.

42:55They've heard things. And so how do I talk to them? What should they know? It's where, again, Like, again, it was Elmo putting on a mask. And why is Elmo washing his hands? And he's going to wash his hands. So hopeful. So hopeful. I mean, we would like, yeah, just stepped in to say, OK, like these are trusted guides and we're able to kind of give it some context. Yeah. And I think like that COVID time really helped us also understand more about that talking about like I remember we started putting out lists of like questions. You know, if you know your child likes these shows, here's some questions.

43:31you can ask at lunchtime or dinnertime. And it was amazing because it helped kids learn more from that show, but it also supported parent-child interaction. Like I just, like, I hope more than anything that what parents learned is like media is something to talk about. And this is a great critical thinking skill for kids to engage in with their parents. And it's also really fun to talk about TV shows together. It's fun to talk about it. And that's a skill that's going to be carried with them throughout their lives to be able to say, oh, I liked this or I didn't like that. Or did you notice that part?

44:06And oh, remember when we laughed so hard together, you know? Yeah. If there is one thing that I depend on in my life, it is my Peloton. I am telling you, I exercise for my mental health. Whenever I fall off of exercising, I got to get back on that horse. And that is what's happening right now. I feel like I've been in a little bit of a lull. And so I'm going to get back on the horse. And you know who's there for me? My trusty Peloton right here at home. And now with the new Peloton cross-training tread plus, it's Peloton's most elevated equipment with real-time guidance and endless ways to move alone or with your favorite instructors.

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46:07Shop my favorite bras and underwear at skims.com. After you place your order, be sure to let them know that we sent you. Select podcast in the survey and be sure to select our show in the dropdown menu that follows. Hey everyone, it's Maddie here, host of The Bad Broadcast. If you're looking for some good, clean positivity, I'm not your girl. Because over at The Bad Broadcast, we dive deep into all the things we love to hate. Bad dates, bad bosses, bad roommates, all while finding the humor in it. We also chat pop culture, relationships, food, and all things nostalgia. Think of it like a sleepover with your best friends where you get to vent, laugh, cry, and watch your favorite chick flick.

46:48You can listen to The Bad Broadcast every Monday, wherever you get your podcasts, or you can now watch the full episodes on YouTube. Remember to be safe, be kind, be hot, and I'll see you on Monday.

47:04I want to wrap up with one that is near and dear to my heart, which is you have just created the network's first autistic lead character. it's so exciting it's so huge for kids you know I have a child with autism to see themselves portrayed on the screen and to see them as the main character which has not happened and is not very often they're usually kind of the one struggling on the side and you're like well that's that's sad that's not how I want my kid to see themselves so it's called Carl the Collector and for those who don't know he's a raccoon he collects things which is just so relatable fake mustaches toys and Carl you follow his neurodiverse animal friends so like a few other of them are neurodiverse and they have challenges which is great because our autistic children have challenges there's even I think an episode where his mom is helping him decide whether or not to tell his friends if he is autistic.

48:11I mean, when I say I was crying, I was crying. So first, just from me to you, thank you, because this is the work that you all are doing. Like, it's just, ooh, okay. And then secondly, as an interview point of view, talk to me about this. Like, how did this come to be? How did you get here? I know it's so difficult because autism can look so many different ways, but you guys, you did it. you went for and it's so impactful well so first i'm so glad that this show is here for you like this is why we do it you know and this is something i will just say like this is this is the kind of thing that only pbs kids would do right like there's not a lot of original programming coming out of the commercial networks right now because people are going for like old ip and things like that but there's still new stories to tell and there's still kids who don't see themselves yet And so this is why, you know, we explored something like this.

49:11But yes, this came to be, there was an author illustrator, Zach Ahura, who if you haven't seen his books, they are fun and funny. And he has this whole world called Fuzzy Town that's all animals. And we had approached him just because we loved his art style. There was a member of the PBS Kids team who reached out to say, we love your art style. Have you ever thought about doing a show? And he pitched us this idea. And we were like, yes, yes. yes, this is a show like this doesn't exist. And so we worked on a pilot and in a very PBS way, we took that into testing and had conversations with kids about like, you know, how did you react to this character?

49:48How do you, you know, do you know what the word autism is? Like, do you like just trying to understand like baseline, where are kids who are on the spectrum or not on the spectrum? Like, where are they and how they look at this? And we learned, first of all, that you can't have a single character represent the whole spectrum. Like that's impossible. And the advisors on the show were like, girls tend to present so differently. So there is one of Carl's friends, Lada, the fox is also in the spectrum, but she presents really differently. She's much better at masking. She's much better at kind of mimicking social behaviors, but is autistic and also like has to, you know, approach problems differently.

50:32And so there's an opportunity then to tell these wonderful stories about a group of friends and how they interact with each other and how, you know, mayhem ensues, like, you know, things come up, funny things happen. And some of the friends approach things differently than other friends do. And that is real life. And it's an opportunity to kind of make this just very normal, like, because it is, you know, we have heard from several parents who knew that their kids like had the diagnosis, but hadn't told their kids yet. When kids saw that episode, two different letters have come in from parents saying, my child was watching your show, didn't know that he was on the spectrum.

51:20And afterwards said, am I autistic? Because sometimes I feel like Carl. I bet. And that is like the best feedback we can get. And we also heard from a lot of kids who weren't on the spectrum who said they didn't know what that word meant. But then after they watched an episode, they were like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I know kids like this. Yeah. My friend. Yeah. And just like, oh yeah. Oh, totally. You know? So we understood that it was still going to be like, I just, I think a lot of people would look at this and think, oh, this is very niche. This is just for kids on the spectrum. And it's not.

51:55It's for all kids. I am beaming. I am like sitting here beaming at what you're saying as a mom, you know, of a child with autism, because one, the difference between boys and girls presenting differently. This is where it all it all changed for me in terms of your show, because it's so difficult that even adults really need an education around what autism looks like and presents like and what they need. And I've never seen a character. There's one other book and it's for teenage girls. It's phenomenal. And it makes girls feel seen. But girls are so left out of this conversation because they don't necessarily relate to the way that an autistic character on a show is presenting as autistic.

52:50Usually in the boy presentation, typical. I'm using generalizations here. So beaming at that one, A plus, have not ever seen it anywhere else. And then the way that, again, you would think this would be niche, but with the rates of autism in our country, and many people can say, oh, suddenly everyone is autistic. But we all know that we have all had kids with autism in our classes. They just were not diagnosed with autism. They presented this exact same way. They were called different. They were maybe called weird. They were picked on. They were autistic. And today, my kids have many autistic children in their classes.

53:36And so it is very important for my neurotypical kids to understand and to see and to go, oh, yeah, like that's how they like. Oh, and that's why maybe they, you know, scream or yell when I do this to them or I get too close to them. Maybe they don't like it when I hug them too much. It's so important. And well, that's all I have, because that's I just I can't I can't tell you enough just personally from this one show, let alone everything else that PBS Kids has done for my family. Even like there's some kids that the noises bother them and headphones. It's just, yeah, this, this is real life. We talk a lot about mirrors and windows.

54:18Like we want to provide characters who are a mirror. We want all kids to see someone who reminds them of them, even if they may look like them or they may just have the same interests, but like you want to be seen. You want to see someone that you connect with. And then we also want to make sure that we are providing windows. We're providing a chance for a kid to see the life of another kid so that they can understand that life, so they can be empathetic, so that they can also recognize what's like and what's different. I'm getting a Daniel Tiger song in my head. So that's what we're thinking about when we're testing things with the kids.

54:55Okay. I could talk to you all day, but I won't, but maybe later. To wrap it up, how can we help? How can listeners help with PBS and its future and the funding and anything else that PBS needs? How can an average person help? Well, first of all, watch PBS Kids. Download the apps. You know, engage with the content. Share it with your kids. Like usage, like that's what we're here for. We want people to be using it. And then tell your friends. Like if your kids have favorite PBS Kids shows, you know, your friends may not even know about it. And so like, we love it when parents are telling other parents about these resources, about things that are there.

55:37Certainly like joining your member station, making a donation to that member station is huge right now. And then at the same time, telling a story about why this content matters. Like if you were to write and say like, Carl the Collector really means something to my family, that's a good story for that station to have, not only to talk to local funders about like the impact they're making, but also to members of Congress about why this is important. So sharing those stories, supporting your local stations, telling everybody about PBS Kids and reminding them that it's free, you know, and that you can get it in all these different places.

56:11You can download the apps. You can watch on YouTube TV. You can watch on Hulu Live. You can watch on Prime Video in front of the paywall. You can, you know, watch on pbskids.org. You can watch on your local station. Like there's so many different ways you can access it. And just letting everybody know that's huge. Yes, absolutely. And then to be clear, where can somebody find their local, like, do they just Google PBS local show and then email or how is the best way to get in contact with you guys and donate? If you go to the PBS Kids website, it will automatically choose your local station for you.

56:45You also can go to PBS.org and put in your zip code and it will find your station and connect you to a place to donate. Great. All right. I know my auction items for today. All right. Thank you. Thank you so much, Sarah. This was really insightful. And I can't state enough how appreciative I am for everything PBS has done and continues to do. Thank you. Thank you for being a fan. And it was just such a pleasure, this conversation. Thank you. Thank you.

57:42Thank you.