Rewire Your Relationships: The Attachment Patterns, Blind Spots, and Protective Moves Shaping How You Love

30 Sep 2026 · 58 min · 19 chapters

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In short

Attachment theory applied to adult relationships—how attachment anxiety and avoidance shape conflict, “protective moves,” and the cycle where one pursues and the other withdraws. The episode emphasizes that attachment styles aren’t diagnoses, can shift over time, and that the goal is learning to feel safe enough to communicate needs and repair after fights.

Guests

Kristen and Dina, child behavior experts, moms, and co-founders of Big Little Feelings. No other guests are interviewed in the transcript.

Key claims

Fear of losing approval/attention/self drives relationship behavior. Secure attachment is not fear-free; it’s fear-tolerant. Anxious attachment shows repeated reassurance-seeking/protest behaviors. Avoidant attachment involves deactivating strategies (minimizing, distancing) when vulnerability feels risky. Fearful-avoidant alternates pursuit and withdrawal. In couples, each person’s fear interprets the other’s behavior, escalating disconnection.

Notable examples

replaying fights in the shower; asking “are you okay?” then escalating affection; withdrawing during conflict with a “20 minutes” pause; “stop making your partner solve a mystery” by directly naming needs; protective-move scenarios (resentment after “whatever, do what you want,” or accusing “never prioritizing you”); repair after triggers.

Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.

Chapters

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Personal Reflections and News

0:45 to 2:45

Hosts share personal experiences and upcoming events while setting the stage for the episode.

“What a dream come true to be able to help kids and parents.”

Introduction to Attachment Styles

2:45 to 5:14

Exploring the significance of attachment styles in relationships and their emotional impact.

“Now to start, I want you to pause and really think about your relationships.”

Understanding Attachment Patterns

5:14 to 7:21

Discussion on how childhood experiences shape adult attachment patterns and relationship dynamics.

“And I don't mean just like losing them through, you know, like a breakup, but losing their approval and their attention and that feeling that you're important to them.”

Types of Attachment Styles

7:21 to 11:31

Overview of different attachment styles and how they manifest in adult relationships.

“to stop letting an old fear make every new relationship decision for you.”

The Nature of Secure Attachment

11:31 to 14:00

Examining the characteristics of secure attachment and its importance in relationships.

“Okay, you might feel incredibly secure in a friendship, and you might struggle with anxiety in your marriage.”

Understanding Secure Attachment

14:00 to 15:29

Learn how secure attachment fosters healthy communication and vulnerability.

“A secure response might actually sound like, hey, I feel like we haven't had much time together lately.”

Exploring Anxious Attachment Styles

20:42 to 24:59

Understand anxious attachment and how it affects relationship dynamics.

“aka when connecting feels like something you have to keep securing.”

Navigating Avoidant Attachment Patterns

25:02 to 28:00

Learn about avoidant attachment and its impact on relationship communication.

“Basically, when needing someone feels really risky.”

Understanding Fearful Avoidant Attachment

28:00 to 33:03

Explore the complexities of fearful avoidant attachment and its impact on relationships.

“So understanding why you shut down doesn't mean your partner is required to spend the rest of their life guessing when you'll be emotionally available.”

Understanding Fearful Avoidant Attachment

33:08 to 35:02

Explore the complexities of fearful avoidant attachment and its impact on relationships.

“Go to H-I-Y-A-H-E-A-L-T-H dot com slash BLF and get your kids the full body support that they deserve.”
Show all 19 chapters

Understanding Fearful Avoidant Attachment

35:06 to 37:27

Explore the complexities of fearful avoidant attachment and its impact on relationships.

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Understanding Fearful Avoidant Attachment

37:34 to 39:27

Explore the complexities of fearful avoidant attachment and its impact on relationships.

“That's code bedtime at toothpillow.com slash bedtime.”

Understanding Fearful Avoidant Attachment

39:33 to 39:46

Explore the complexities of fearful avoidant attachment and its impact on relationships.

“Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns.”

The Relationship Dance of Attachment Patterns

39:46 to 42:00

An exploration of how differing attachment styles interact in relationships.

“Like what happens when attachment patterns meet each other inside of a relationship?”

Understanding Attachment Patterns

42:00 to 46:05

Learn how attachment theory influences relationship dynamics and conflict patterns.

“can intensify the exact reaction that they're afraid of.”

Identifying Protective Moves

46:05 to 48:22

Discover what protective moves are and how to recognize them in yourself.

“The goal is not to prevent yourself from ever feeling afraid.”

The Importance of Accountability

48:22 to 51:05

Understand the role of accountability in relationships and how to take responsibility.

“You can communicate your needs and then you can pay attention to how the other person responds.”

Repairing Relationships Post-Conflict

51:05 to 56:03

Learn effective strategies for repairing relationships after conflicts and understanding attachment in parenting.

“That is not real relationships Sometimes you're gonna understand your protective move before you act on it.”

The Importance of Repair in Relationships

56:03 to 57:28

Learn about the significance of repair in fostering healthy relationships.

“Like, I hope that's what you take away from this.”
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Transcript

Automatic transcript. May contain errors.

0:00The following podcast is a dear media production. Welcome back to After Bedtime and boy do we have an episode today. This one might just reshape every single relationship in your life. We're going deep on attachment styles, okay? Why we love the way that we love, relationship patterns, and learning to feel safe in love. You're going to have such a deep understanding of yourself by the end of this and walk away with real tools that you can start using today to work through conflict, hard moments, and share your needs honestly while creating safety in the relationship. Okay, before we dive super deep on attachment styles, which literally I cannot wait for, it is so interesting and so helpful for like every relationship in your life.

0:51Before that, I am currently sitting right now in a hotel bed in New York City after going to like a dream event where we talked about child development at a Time 100 party with UNICEF and Sesame Workshops and a Harvard professor that I've long looked up to. It was crazy. I was like, how did I get here? What a dream come true to be able to help kids and parents. Anyways, that's my life mission. So I'm still nerding out on that. And tomorrow, we're going to be jumping on national news, which is also crazy. Like, how did I get here again? and whenever we go on the news in New York, the call time is always 5.30 Eastern, which is 3.30 for my body.

1:32And I feel a little bit like a zombie at first. I'm like, oh my God, pulling from the depths here. And then I wake up and feel the adrenaline rush and get all excited. And it's always a good time. But yeah, it's definitely a thing, a thing where I'm going to be really tired afterwards. And that's okay. Worth it. Sorry in advance if you hear honking out my window. It's classic New York City. There's honking everywhere. And sirens, you know how it goes. But we'll be good. Welcome to After Bedtime, where the house is finally quiet, but the real noise begins. The thoughts, the questions, the wondering if you're doing any of this right.

2:09We're Kristen and Dina, child behavior experts, moms and co-founders of Big Little Feelings. And we're not here to give you more pressure or perfect parenting energy. Nope. We're here to tell the truth, the unfiltered, beautiful, brutal truth about what it means to raise kids and re-raise ourselves in the process. Because parenting isn't just about sleep schedules and snack hacks. It's about healing. It's about breaking cycles. It's about becoming the kind of adult you want your kids to grow up to be. This is the place where we say the quiet parts out loud, and we're so glad that you're here. Okay, let's dive into attachment styles.

2:46I literally cannot wait. Let's do this. Now to start, I want you to pause and really think about your relationships. Have you ever gotten to a fight with someone that you love and afterwards you replay the entire conversation in your head over and over? Like you're in the shower, you're making coffee, you're trying to go to sleep and your brain is just sitting there preparing its closing argument. Like you're going to go into a court situation and prepare your statements. You know what I mean? And at some point you realize you're not even thinking about the actual argument anymore. You're thinking about what it means.

3:19Does this mean we're not okay? Does this mean that they don't really understand me? Does this mean I'm always going to feel alone in this relationship? Should I bring it up again? Should I give them space? Should I pretend I'm fine? Wait, why am I the one who's always having to bring things up? Or maybe you're the person on the other side of the argument. You love your partner. You care about them. But the second that you feel like you've disappointed them, something inside you shuts down and they're asking you to talk and you genuinely cannot find the words. Like you need to get out of the room.

3:53You need to do literally anything other than have this conversation right now. And here's the really confusing part. You might be someone who spends your entire day wishing your partner would connect with you. And then when they finally try, you feel annoyed or overwhelmed or suspicious or suddenly very interested in your laundry and you're sitting there thinking like, what is going on with me? Today, we're talking about attachment styles, but I want to approach this a little differently because I do feel like we've reached a point where everybody on the internet has like taken a quiz, identified their attachment style, diagnosed their partner, their ex, and has decided that every mildly inconvenient interaction is basically like evidence that you're in a toxic relationship.

4:40And I say this with love because I genuinely believe that attachment theory can be one of the most powerful tools that we have for understanding ourselves and our relationships. And be really honest with you, I'm in the messy middle right now of my own relationship. So this stuff has been like deeply on my mind right now. But I don't think the goal is to walk around just, you know, collecting labels. I think the real goal here is to understand something way deeper, way more important, which is what happens to you when you're afraid of losing someone you love. That is the core of it, if I may put on my therapist hat for a moment here.

5:17And I don't mean just like losing them through, you know, like a breakup, but losing their approval and their attention and that feeling that you're important to them. Basically losing your freedom inside the relationship or losing your sense of self. What do you do when connection feels threatened. This is really important self-awareness stuff that can change your life. Do you chase it? Do you shut down? Do you become hyper-independent and you just say, okay, you know what? I'll take care of myself, which high is me. Or maybe you make yourself smaller or you get really angry and explosive or you start testing whether the other person really loves you.

6:01And here's the question I really want us to explore today. What if some of the things that we're doing to protect our relationships are actually the things making it harder for us to feel connected? As a child therapist, I have spent years thinking about how our earliest relationships shaped the way that we understand ourselves and other people in the world. And one of the things that I find most fascinating is that the emotional strategies that we develop when we're little don't necessarily disappear when we become adults. They just get better outfits, if you will. They get jobs and they get married and they have children.

6:43They become incredibly competent people who can manage an entire household and run a business and make a dentist appointment for their kid while simultaneously answering six emails. And then their partner says, can we talk about something? And suddenly they're eight years old again, emotionally speaking. So today we're going to talk about how attachment patterns develop and what the different styles actually mean and how they show up in adult relationships and why two people who genuinely do love each other can end up making each other feel completely unsafe. And most importantly, we're going to talk about how to stop letting an old fear make every new relationship decision for you.

7:27This information and these tools we're about to cover will help your relationships, period, with yourself, with your romantic ones, with your kid. I'm so ready. Let's do this. First, let's explore what did your brain learn about love? Okay, it's a big topic. And before we get into the different attachment styles, I want you to imagine something. Imagine you're a little kid and something happens that completely overwhelms you. I don't know, maybe you fall down and hurt yourself. Maybe another kid rejects you. Maybe you're embarrassed or you're frightened or you did something wrong. And now you're worried your parent is going to be mad at you.

8:11Whatever it is, you have a feeling that's too big for your little body to manage by itself. And you need someone. You don't necessarily know how to explain what you need. You might cry or scream or you might cling to your parent. You might push them away while desperately wanting them to stay. But underneath all that behavior is a very basic human need. I need help feeling safe. Now imagine that over thousands of little moments like this, your developing brain is learning what happens when you need another person. When I'm upset, does someone notice? When I reach for comfort, does someone respond?

9:00If I make a mistake, am I still loved? Can I be angry with someone and remain connected to them? Can I need another person without feeling ashamed? And can I be myself, even when being myself is honestly inconvenient? Your brain doesn't sit there with a notebook taking detailed observations. You're not three years old sitting there going, how fascinating. My mommy's inconsistent emotional availability may lead to a heightened sensitivity to interpersonal ambiguity in my adult relationships later. No, you're three. you're mad because your banana broke, okay? But your developing little nervous system is learning from the patterns around you.

9:45And this is where attachment theory comes in. In the broadest sense, attachment is about the emotional bond we develop with the people we depend on for care and comfort and safety. Our early experiences can help shape our expectations about whether other people will be available to us, whether our needs are acceptable, and what we have to do to maintain connection. And when we grow up, some of those expectations can influence the way we approach adult romantic relationships. And now I want to be really clear about something here. Your attachment style is not a diagnosis. It is not like a personality disorder.

10:27And it is not a permanent identity that you discover through a seven-question quiz on Instagram. Adult attachment is really described as using two broad dimensions, attachment anxiety and attachment avoidance. Now, attachment anxiety is about how much you worry about rejection and abandonment or whether someone will be there when you need them. Now, attachment avoidance is about how uncomfortable or reluctant you may feel depending on other people or allowing yourself to be emotionally vulnerable. Different combinations of those two tendencies can create the patterns that we commonly call secure, anxious, dismissive avoidant, and fearful avoidant attachment.

11:12We'll get into that. Don't worry about it. But bottom line, these aren't like four completely separate species of human. You can have tendencies from more than one pattern and you can respond differently in different relationships too. And your patterns can shift over time as you have new experiences and develop new skills. Okay, you might feel incredibly secure in a friendship, and you might struggle with anxiety in your marriage. You might have a history of pushing partners away, and then you enter a relationship where you're suddenly terrified of being abandoned. You might also discover that the way that you behave in a relationship is influenced not only by your history, but by what's actually happening in that relationship.

11:55Because yes, your history matters and so does your partner's behavior. And one last really important distinction here, having an insecure attachment pattern doesn't automatically mean your parents were terrible or that you had a traumatic childhood or that somebody fundamentally failed you. And like we said, attachment patterns can change. And that's the important part of this conversation because the point of understanding your past is not to decide that you're permanently screwed. The point is to recognize what you learned about relationships so that you can decide what you want to practice now.

12:32So let's go into secure attachment, right? This is like the dream, the one. This is what we're aiming for. We wish we had. What does it actually look like? Secure attachment does not mean that you're the kind of person who just floats around through life in a beautiful linen outfit and never feels jealous and never gets triggered in response to every relationship conflict by calmly saying, I noticed that I'm experiencing some discomfort in my heart space right now. No, no, no, no, no, absolutely not. That's not real life for anybody. Securely attached people get upset. They're scared. They have bad days.

13:10They sometimes need reassurance and they sometimes say things they regret. The difference here is that they're generally able to hold on to a basic sense that relationships can survive those experiences and those hard moments. They can want closeness without feeling completely consumed by the fear of losing it. And they can maintain their independence without needing to emotionally disappear from the relationship. Okay. Another element is they can communicate a need without automatically assuming that having a need makes them too much. Because here's another key part of secure attachment. Okay.

13:46When something goes wrong, they can often recognize that conflict is a problem to work through rather than immediate evidence that the relationship is falling apart. Okay, let's say your partner is having a rough week and they're distracted. They're just not as affectionate as usual and you're feeling a little disconnected. A secure response might actually sound like, hey, I feel like we haven't had much time together lately. I know that you're super busy, but I miss you. Can we make some time for each other this weekend? Like notice what's happening there. Okay, the person recognizes their feeling and they acknowledge the circumstances and they communicate a need.

14:23They give their partner an opportunity to respond. Like you're not necessarily certain that everything is fine and it might feel really vulnerable, but that vulnerability isn't being turned into a crisis and an accusation or a reason to disappear. And here's something important I want us all to remember throughout this episode. secure attachment isn't the absence of fear. It's really more like the ability to experience fear without automatically allowing that fear to take over the relationship. And that's something we can learn. Picture this with me. You get your little baby tucked in. It's been a long day.

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20:39Okay. So let's dive now into anxious attachment, aka when connecting feels like something you have to keep securing. Maybe your partner seems distracted during dinner. They haven't done anything like particularly wrong or awful. They're just quieter than usual. And you start trying to figure out what's going on. Are they stressed? Did I do something? Are they pulling away? Maybe I shouldn't have brought up that thing yesterday. Maybe they're annoyed with me. So then you ask if everything's okay. And they say yes. And for about 14 seconds, you feel better. But then they don't really elaborate. And they don't reach for your hand.

21:20They don't seem particularly interested in continuing that conversation. And now your brain is like, okay, interesting. We're saying everything's fine, but the evidence suggests otherwise. So you ask another question or you become extra affectionate or you start talking about something you know they like because maybe if you can get them engaged, you'll feel connected again. And none of that is necessarily unhealthy on its own. It's not. Asking someone if they're okay is not a symptom. Wanting affection is not a pathology. The pattern becomes important when uncertainty about the relationship repeatedly creates so much anxiety that you feel compelled to do something, anything to get rid of that uncertainty.

22:02You might seek reassurance over and over, or you might become preoccupied with small changes in your partner's behavior, or you might struggle to tolerate distance even when there's a reasonable explanation for it. You might find yourself compromising your own needs because losing the relationship feels more frightening than losing part of yourself or you might become angry. And I really want to talk about this last one because anxious attachment isn't always the soft vulnerable person saying, please don't leave me. Sometimes it looks like picking a fight or it looks like saying, well, clearly you don't give a shit about me.

22:39Sometimes it looks like threatening to end the relationship when what you actually desperately want is for the other person to tell you that they don't want to lose you. In attachment research, certain behaviors that attempt to regain closeness or a partner's response are sometimes called protest behaviors. And this is such an important thing. The emotional need underneath a behavior may be completely understandable, while the behavior itself may still be hurtful or ineffective. Like let's say you feel ignored by your partner. The underlying need might be, I want to know that I matter to you. But the behavior might be giving them the silent treatment to see whether they'll notice or making a comment intended to hurt them because you're hurting.

23:25Something I always come back to as a therapist, hurt people hurt people. Here's what I want you to understand about this pattern. You may have learned through your experiences that connection is something you have to work really hard to maintain. When someone pulls away, you need to move toward them quickly before that connection just disappears. And those strategies may have served a purpose at some point in your life. But in an adult relationship, they can create an exhausting situation where your sense of emotional safety depends on constantly monitoring what that other person is doing. And the problem is that no human being can provide perfect, uninterrupted reassurance.

24:05It's not possible. Your partner can love you and have a bad day. They can be committed to you and they might need some time alone. And you know what? They can care really deeply about your feelings and still get frustrated with you sometimes. If every moment of disconnection feels like an emergency or crisis, you can end up spending so much energy trying to prevent the loss of a relationship that you struggle to actually experience the relationship that you're in. I want to be super careful here because the solution is not to tell yourself that you shouldn't need anything. You are allowed to need reassurance.

24:41You're allowed to need affection and you're allowed to ask for consistency. These are human needs. They all make sense. The real work here, though, is learning to communicate those needs directly and recognizing when your fear is pushing you toward behavior that doesn't actually serve you. And we'll come back to exactly how to do that. But first, we got to unpack avoidant attachment. Basically, when needing someone feels really risky. Now, before I dive all the way into avoidant attachment, I feel like I just want to say the way it's being discussed online, okay? I feel like we've turned avoidantly attached people into the villains of the entire relationship universe, my friends.

25:23But avoidant attachment is not synonymous with being an asshole, okay? It's not a clinical term for someone who doesn't care about you. People with avoidant attachment tendencies can love deeply. They can be really loyal and thoughtful and committed, and they may also experience emotional dependence and vulnerability as uncomfortable or threatening. Now, let's imagine you're in a relationship and your partner tells you they feel lonely. For one person, that might feel like an invitation to connect. But for someone with stronger avoidant tendencies, the same conversation might immediately bring up a very different emotional experience.

26:05One that's kind of like, I haven't done enough. Oh, I'm failing. Now they're going to need more from me. Whatever I do, it's never going to be enough. I don't know how to make this better. And instead of moving toward the other person, they pull away. They may minimize the problem. They may say, we've spent the entire weekend together. How could you possibly feel lonely? They may become intensely focused on the facts of the conversation rather than the emotion underneath it, which is what really needs the attention. Or they might genuinely just feel overwhelmed and need distance before they can talk.

26:41Avoid an attachment can involve what researchers call deactivating strategies, ways of reducing attachment-related distress by suppressing the desire for closeness, emphasizing independence, or emotionally distancing oneself from a partner. And the really important thing here is that someone may genuinely experience closeness as both desirable and uncomfortable. That's the hard part. They may want a loving relationship while also feeling really threatened by vulnerability that relationships actually require. But here's how this can become really confusing in a relationship. Your partner says, I need you to open up to me.

Read the full transcript

27:23and you hear the way you love me isn't good enough. Your partner says, I want us to spend more time together. And you hear you're about to lose all your independence. Maybe they say, hey, can we talk about what happened last night? And here's what you hear. We're about to have a conversation where I feel like a failure and I don't know how to make it stop. So then you withdraw. not because you don't care but because sometimes you care and the emotional stakes feel enormous so here's where accountability comes in if you repeatedly withdraw without communicating and you dismiss your partner's feelings or make it impossible to address the problems that behavior does have an impact yes your internal experience matters and so does the experience of the person who's trying to connect with you.

28:17So understanding why you shut down doesn't mean your partner is required to spend the rest of their life guessing when you'll be emotionally available. And if you're the person who tends to shut down, I want you to hear this. You don't have to magically become comfortable with vulnerability overnight. And maybe here's a starting place, okay? You say, listen, I want to have this conversation and I'm getting overwhelmed right now. I just, I need 20 minutes and I will come back. Because needing space and abandoning the conversation are not the same thing. You can practice letting someone care about you without making emotional independence the price of admission, basically.

28:59Okay, let's get into our last one here. Fearful avoidant attachment, which is basically when closeness and distance both feel threatening. It's a tricky one because this is sometimes described as having high levels of both attachment anxiety and attachment avoidance. And what that can mean is that you intensely desire emotional closeness while also feeling super duper uncomfortable or frightened by it. They're kind of like magnets repelling against each other at the same time. Like you worry about being abandoned and you also struggle to trust someone who wants to stay. Or you feel really desperate for connection when a partner seems distant.

29:43And then you become overwhelmed once they're emotionally available. And if you experience this, I mean, you know how confusing it can feel. You think, okay, I finally have the relationship I've wanted. Great. Yes, this person is interested in me. They're showing up. They want to build something real. so why do I suddenly feel like I need to get out? Or you might find yourself in relationships where you alternate between pursuing someone and withdrawing from them. You feel unsafe when they pull away but you also feel unsafe when they come close and the result can be a lot of internal conflict because part of you is saying please please choose me and another part is saying don't let anybody get close enough to hurt you.

30:28God, those really are two things that are hard to have coexist together. So I guess the takeaway here is not, oh my God, I'm fearful avoidance, so I'm incapable of having a stable relationship. It's that you may need to build your capacity to tolerate both emotional closeness and the uncertainty that comes with caring about another person. You might actually need to learn what safe vulnerability feels like, how to communicate a need without immediately regretting it, and how to distinguish a present day threat from an expectation shaped by previous experiences. And those are skills that can develop over time.

31:07You guys, autumn is here. The leaves are changing. Tiny pumpkins are everywhere. The kids have cute new backpacks. And somewhere in the distance, the school nurse is dialing your number Because nothing says back to school season quite like getting a call at 10, 17 a.m. while you are actively doing 17 other things. And they say, hi, so your child says their throat feels weird. Cool. I love this season for us. Let me give you one of my favorite hacks to up immunity. Hiya. This is a core part of our routine. It is quick, easy, and their daily multivitamin was designed specifically around nutritional gaps in what modern kids are actually eating.

31:53Which is why Haya worked alongside pediatricians and nutrition scientists to create a chewable vitamin with 12 organic fruits and vegetables, plus 15 essential vitamins and minerals, including vitamin D and B12, C, zinc, folate, like pretty much everything that our growing little babies need, especially on those days where they're just taking a nibble here and there. And if we're really getting into the details of multivitamins for kids, a lot of them are just like sugar bombs. I super appreciate that highest vitamins are not packed with sugar. This is not like a candy thing. This is a real daily vitamin, especially helpful now that school is back in swing.

32:32They're kids' bedtime essential vitamin. This is a non-habit forming chewable with L-theanine and B6, GABA, chamomile flour extract, magnesium, and calcium, which helps your kids relax before bed so that they can wake up feeling rejuvenated and refreshed, and there's no synthetic hormones like melatonin in it. Just calm support to help them recharge for everything they've got going on. And we've worked out a special deal with Haya. Receive 50 % off your order on any of their products. To clean this deal, you must go to HayaHealth.com slash BLF. This deal's not available on their regular website.

33:09Go to H-I-Y-A-H-E-A-L-T-H dot com slash BLF and get your kids the full body support that they deserve. Guys, there are certain things now that I'm a grown up where I'm like, I'm just not willing to deal with it anymore. Bad coffee. No, it's not happening. Jeans, especially the kind where you need like emotional resilience to just get them up and zipped. Not happening. And then underwear during your period where you're wondering the whole time, Like, is everything OK down there? Especially after having kids where I didn't have a period for a certain amount of time. Now that I have it back, it's just like, oh, my God.

33:46But let me tell you what has been absolutely life changing when it comes to periods. NYX. I'm sure you've heard everyone rave about it. And that's because it's literally the best. NYX leak proof underwear. It is one of those products where you try it and immediately become that annoying friend who's like, no, seriously, you need these. because they look like normal underwear and they feel like normal underwear. You wash them like normal underwear, except, hi, plot twist, they can actually handle your period. Their leak-proof technology comes in different absorbencies for everything from your lightest days to your absolute crime scene days.

34:24Hi, that's me. I have endometriosis. It's horrible. With options that can absorb up to six super tampons worth. Six super tampons. And one specific thing I love about NYX is that they have unique bonded edges designed to help prevent side leaks. The fabric is so buttery, soft and stretchy. They have thongs, bikinis, boy shorts, high rise, like basically whatever version of underwear makes you feel like yourself. Because period underwear doesn't have to look like something you use at a medical facility, okay? I am so deeply into anything that makes periods require less thought, not more. And this does exactly that.

35:02Head to NYX.com and you'll see why I love NYX. Don't forget to use the code BIGLITTLEFEELINGS for 15 % off your order. Get leak-proof undies, amazing bras, and more. That's K-N-I-X.com. Code BIGLITTLEFEELINGS. NYX.com. You're going to thank me. There are certain kid things that are so common, we almost stop noticing them. Snoring, sleeping with their mouth open, grinding their teeth, waking up tired even after what should have been a full night's sleep. And because kids are kids, it's really easy to just kind of file that all under, well, children are weird sleepers. But Toothpillow looks at something most of us were never taught to pay attention to, how a kid is actually breathing while they sleep, and whether their jaw and airway development could be part of this picture.

35:54These are things with kids that can be life-changing. So with Toothpillow, their process starts with a free at-home assessment. You submit photos and answer a few questions, and real airway dentists review everything. Then they tell you what they're seeing and what they recommend. If treatment could be helpful, but walk you through it. And if your kid needs something different or nothing at all, they tell you that too. So if a child is a fit for the program, Toothpillow's doctor-guided treatment is designed to support natural jaw growth, proper tongue posture, and healthy nasal breathing while they're still growing.

36:28The two-year program happens entirely from home and includes a series of soft, removable appliances, short daily myofunctional exercises, and check-ins with the Toothpillow airway dentist and care team. And the part that really made me stop and pay so much attention to this is the timing. Toothpillow says that the key growth window for a kid's jaw and airway is roughly ages 3 to 12 while they're still actively growing. So if you've ever looked at your kids sleeping with their mouth hanging open or you heard them snoring from halfway down the hall, this is one of those things that may be worth getting more information about.

37:02You can literally just start with the free assessment and let the dentist tell you everything that they see. And your code gets a free upgrade to a full video assessment, a$50 value. Instead of just a form response, one of their doctors records a video walking through your child's photos one by one, explaining exactly what they see, why it matters, and what they recommend. You watch it on your own time, revisit it later, or share it with family. Just head to toothpillow.com slash bedtime and use code bedtime to unlock your free video assessment. That's code bedtime at toothpillow.com slash bedtime.

37:38Tell me if this happens to you too. You go to your closet. You're looking through. You're trying to pick something cute. You're like, no, no, not that. Okay, not that either. You have all these clothes in your closet, but you don't actually want to wear any of them. I am so done with that chapter. I recently got rid of a bunch of my clothes. I just did it. And instead, I'm focused on getting pieces that I actually like. And let me tell you where my go-to has been. Quince. If you do not know about quince, you need to. My mom is the one who turned me on to quince. Thank God. I've gotten so many good things from there.

38:14And if you follow us on Instagram, you've already seen a bunch of them. I got the cutest black wrap dress that I wear to events. I wear it to work meetings when I need to look nice. I wear it to date nights. It is so comfortable. It's kind of like wearing a bathrobe almost. except you look really put together and really beautiful. It's such a win. I have a crop top for them that I wear all the time to workout classes. That thing has been through the washing machine so many times and it's held up incredibly. I have the cutest tote from them that holds everything, you know, like all the toy cars and the rocks and there's snacks at the bottom, but it looks really chic and nice because it's actual leather.

38:52And let me tell you why you can get all these quality things at such an amazing price on quince. They cut out the middleman. So basically, you're getting high quality Mongolian cashmere, organic cotton, washable silk, but there is no markup. They also have home stuff and 14 karat gold jewelry, bedding, bath things, kitchen stuff, even furniture. And everything is priced 50 to 80 percent less than similar brands because they work directly with ethical factories and cut out that middleman. Find the fall pieces that you'll reach for most at Quince. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers or go to quince.com slash BLF.

39:33Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. That's quince.com slash BLF. Okay, now we have to go over something so important. We've got the attachment styles. You probably just listened and noticed which one resonated with you most, which one is happening in your current relationship, And now we have to talk about the relationship dance that makes two people feel completely alone. Like what happens when attachment patterns meet each other inside of a relationship? Because this is where things get really interesting and sometimes really messy. But the more you understand it, the more you can work with it.

40:17Imagine one partner is especially sensitive to signs of disconnection. When something feels off, they want to talk. They want reassurance and they want to resolve the issue immediately. Now imagine the other partner becomes overwhelmed by emotionally intense conversations. So when conflict escalates, they need space and they need time to collect their thoughts and they might struggle to communicate while they're upset. Neither person's initial reaction is inherently wrong. but watch what happens when each person interprets the other's behavior through their own fears. Okay? Partner A notices that something's wrong and says, can we please talk about this?

41:04Partner B is already feeling overwhelmed and says, I don't want to do this right now. Partner A hears, you don't care about me. So they push harder. Now they start saying things like, why can we never talk about anything? Why do you always shut me out? Partner B hears you're failing again and nothing you do will ever be enough. So they withdraw further and they say something like because every time we talk it turns into this huge thing. And now partner A feels even more alone and partner B feels even more trapped. And suddenly you've got two people in the same house who both believe the other person is the reason that they can't feel safe.

41:47Each person's waiting for the other person to change their behavior before they can feel safe enough to actually show up differently. You see how it's a dance that really spirals together? And the awful irony is that their attempts to protect themselves can intensify the exact reaction that they're afraid of. The more one person pursues, the more the other may withdraw. The more one person withdraws, the more desperately the other person may pursue. And over time, couples can begin reacting not just to the original problem, but now to the entire history of how these conversations have gone. The conversation about the dishes isn't actually about the dishes anymore.

42:29It's about whether you can count on each other or whether your needs matter or being honest leads to connection or another exhausting argument. And again, nuance, context, not every pursuer is anxiously attached and not every person who withdraws has an avoidant attachment style. But attachment theory can help us recognize what fear might be driving our participation in the cycle. And this, my friends, is where I want to introduce a question that can completely change the way you approach conflict. Okay, are you ready? instead of asking, why does my partner keep doing this to me? We're going to try asking what happens between us when one of us gets scared?

43:14Because that's the question that moves us away from deciding which person is the problem and toward understanding the pattern that you're creating together. Now, that doesn't mean that both people are equally responsible for every conflict. And it definitely doesn't mean that you should overlook cruelty and intimidation or manipulation or repeated violations of your boundaries. Let's get into the hard-hitting tools. Okay, tool number one. The next time that something happens in a relationship and you feel yourself becoming emotionally activated, I want you to learn to recognize what I call your protective move.

43:50Your protective move is the behavior that you tend to reach for when you feel emotionally threatened. Now, for some people, it's trying to resolve the problem immediately. Hey, hi, it's me. That's me. I always have to keep an eye on this. And for others, it's going to be shutting down. And for some people, it's becoming incredibly agreeable and abandoning their own needs because they're afraid of upsetting someone. Or maybe it's becoming critical, controlling, defensive. Or it could be acting like you don't care about a relationship because caring feels too vulnerable. So the next time you feel yourself becoming upset, I want you to ask yourself three questions.

44:30What am I afraid is happening right now? What do I feel the urge to do to protect myself? And if I follow that urge, what's likely to happen next? Let's say your partner tells you that they're going out with friends on a night when you thought the two of you would spend time together. Your fear might be, I'm not important to them. And your protective move might be to say, whatever, do what you want. And what's likely to happen next? Your partner might take you at your word and go out. And you might spend the entire evening feeling resentful and furious. And now you're more disconnected than you were before the conversation even began.

45:12And rewind it, okay? Maybe your protective move is to immediately accuse them of never prioritizing you. And that could lead to a fight where the original need, wanting quality time together, gets completely lost. Okay, rewind one more time. Now imagine that you recognize your protective move before you act on it. You might say, okay, I was really looking forward to spending time together tonight and I'm feeling disappointed. Can we figure out another time for us? Does that guarantee your partner will respond perfectly. Of course not, but it gives you an opportunity to communicate what you actually need rather than asking the other person to decode your protective behavior.

45:54And if your protective move is withdrawal, your version might look really different. Maybe you recognize that you're becoming overwhelmed and your first instinct is to end that conversation. The goal is not to prevent yourself from ever feeling afraid. It's going to happen. It's natural. It's human. The real goal here is to build a little bit of space between the fear and what you do next. Okay, time for another tool here. Stop making your partner solve a mystery. I know a lot of us do it, usually without ever even realizing it. We want something from our partner, but instead of directly asking for it, we create a situation where they have to prove that they know what we want.

46:35And listen, I understand the desire. I've done this. We've all done this. I don't want to have to explain every single thing that I need for the rest of my life. Sometimes I want my husband to magically recognize that I have had a truly spectacularly overstimulating day and arrive with exactly the kind of support that I need. And you know what? After years of being together, I do think it's reasonable to expect our partners to learn things about us. Absolutely. We shouldn't have to explain the same fundamental needs forever while the other person makes no effort to understand us. But there is a difference between wanting a partner who knows you and requiring them to demonstrate their love by correctly guessing something you haven't communicated.

47:16Because sometimes we unintentionally turn our needs into a test, and that's something that doesn't really help the relationship. We think, okay, if I have to ask, it doesn't count. If they really cared, they'd already know. Like if I tell them what I need, they're only doing it because I asked. And we got to challenge that. Why doesn't it count if you ask? Why is love less meaningful when someone listens to you or takes your needs seriously and responds? Like actually, isn't that exactly what we want from a relationship? A person who can hear us and care about what really matters to us? You're not signing on here to become their full-time project manager.

47:53They're a grown-up. They're an adult. You have a shared life. but naming a problem clearly gives you information because once you've communicated a need you get to see what happens. Does your partner listen? Do they care about your experience? Are they willing to work towards a solution together? And does their behavior change over time? That information is important and you don't have to keep inventing increasingly complicated ways to get somebody to demonstrate that they care about you. You can communicate your needs and then you can pay attention to how the other person responds. Now let's get into what accountability actually looks like because I feel like that gets skipped all the time in attachment talk.

48:37Accountability. Because I really do think there's some version of attachment content that goes something like this. I have an anxious attachment style so I need a partner who reassures me constantly. or I have an avoidant attachment style. So my partner needs to understand that I don't like talking about feelings. And understanding each other's needs is absolutely important. But an explanation for your behavior is not the same thing as taking responsibility for your behavior. OK, this is my little bit of tough love for you, and it's going to help you grow. I do this for myself, too. It's not just you.

49:14We're in this together, boo-boo. Let's imagine you recognize that your fear of abandonment sometimes causes you to lash out when your partner wants time alone. You might want to say, I have an anxious attachment, okay? So when you go out without me, it activates my abandonment wound. And yes, that's a very meaningful description of your experience. But what happens next? Does identifying the wound mean your partner is never allowed to spend time alone? doesn't mean that every time they do something independently, they're responsible for managing the anxiety that you experience. Does it mean you don't have to take responsibility for the hurtful things you might say when you're afraid?

49:51No. Exactly. No. Now let's look at the other side. Okay. Maybe you recognize that you have avoidant tendencies and struggle to communicate during conflict. You might want to say, you know what? I shut down because emotional conversations are really overwhelming for me. Okay, yes, that helps us understand what's happening, but it doesn't mean your partner is required to accept a relationship where difficult conversations never happen. Your attachment history may explain your protective move, and it does not automatically justify the impact of that move. And here's where it gets really, really powerful.

50:30You can hold two truths at the exact same time. Here's an example. I was genuinely afraid you were going to leave me and I shouldn't have threatened to break up with you. Or here's another one. I became overwhelmed during our argument and shutting down and giving you the silent treatment for two days without communicating with you was hurtful. I can own that because when you understand why you do something, you gain the ability to recognize the pattern. And when you take responsibility for the impact of that pattern, you gain the opportunity to change it. Okay, we're gonna quickly hit on like my last points here.

51:08Okay What do you do after a fight? Repair You've probably heard this here at blf a ton repair repair repair Because I don't want you leaving this episode thinking that secure relationships are the relationships where nobody gets triggered and nobody shuts down And everybody communicates beautifully all the time. That is not real relationships Sometimes you're gonna understand your protective move before you act on it. Sometimes you're not the more we can pause and regroup and circle back after that hard moment and just own it and acknowledge it like, hey, you know what? I didn't handle that well.

51:43I got activated. I'm so sorry. That probably hurt you. And reconnect and really repair it, the healthier the relationship's going to be. And then we got to do that other part, the part about following through and really trying to change the cycle. because if every conflict ends with the exact same apology and nothing ever changes, you're not really repairing the underlying pattern. You just become really good at apologizing. Okay, friends, as we wrap up here, what does it actually look like to become more secure? Because I don't want to leave you with a beautiful understanding of your attachment patterns and absolutely no idea what to do with it.

52:21In attachment research, we sometimes talk about earned security. This is the possibility of developing more secure attachment through experiences and the way we come to understand and integrate our relationship histories. But the central idea is important. Okay, it's this. Your relationship patterns are not necessarily fixed. You can develop new ways of responding. The first is learning to tolerate the feeling without immediately acting on it. You might say to yourself, okay, I'm feeling uncertain right now. I can feel uncertain without immediately trying to make that feeling disappear. I can handle this.

52:58This feels yucky, but I know I can get through this. And then you can return to something that matters in your own life. It might be noticing the urge to become emotionally distant and choosing one small act of connection. Maybe you tell your partner, I'm having a hard time about this, but I want you to know that I care. Or maybe you allow yourself to ask for help with something that you'd normally insist on just doing alone. you're developing a greater ability to remain connected without abandoning your own boundaries the second place to begin is learning to understand what your body does when you feel threatened because sometimes we're trying to solve a relationship problem while our whole nervous system is in a state of intense emotional activation and in those moments you're not necessarily in the best position to have a productive conversation this is really where regulation skills can help so much.

53:50Okay, the third practice is learning to receive love. Some of us are very good at doing things for other people and we anticipate their needs and we're so good at being helpful and making sure everyone else is okay. And then when someone wants to take care of us, we don't really know what to do with ourselves. Like if that sounds familiar, your practice might be allowing yourself to receive a small amount of support without immediately earning it or repaying it or dismissing it. Let somebody help. Tell somebody what would make your day easier. Allow yourself to be disappointed or vulnerable in the presence of a person who's demonstrated that they can respond with care.

54:33And this is where the relational part of attachment work becomes so important. We don't develop all of our relationship patterns in isolation and we don't have to change them in isolation either. This is how growing in good, healthy relationships works. Consistent, respectful relationships can provide opportunities to develop new expectations and new ways of connecting. Now, I want to bring this all back to parenting for a minute because as a child therapist, one of the things I find so powerful about understanding attachment is recognizing how the skills we're talking about in adult relationships connect to the emotional experiences we create for our kids.

55:17And if you're a parent listening to this, I can practically hear your brain going, oh my god, have I already given my kid an insecure attachment style? You don't need perfect parenting to develop a secure attachment. All the research shows kids benefit from caregivers who are responsive, emotionally available, and able to provide a reliable sense of safety over time. That does not mean responding perfectly to every emotion, preventing every disappointment, or never getting overwhelmed. It really honestly means building a relationship where your kid can experience the full range of being human while knowing that connection doesn't disappear every time things get difficult.

56:02And one of the most important things we can support that is through repair. Like, I hope that's what you take away from this. Repair, repair, repair. It literally changes how the experience gets stored in their brain. Okay, besties, this has been quite the episode. Okay, we've learned there is no relationship where you can guarantee that you will never be hurt or misunderstood or rejected or disappointed. But you can learn to trust yourself to recognize what's happening and communicate what you need and maintain your boundaries and respond to difficult things in ways that align with your values.

56:37and when old fears show up because sometimes it will you can recognize it and you can know where it came from and have compassion for the version of you who learned that protective strategy because you are not responsible for every experience that shaped you but you can have a say in what happens next you get to write your story that's where the work begins I'm so proud of you for being here and building self-awareness and updating your toolbox for your relationships. You're doing an amazing job. Thanks for being here with me while I'm going through my own messy middle part. I hope this episode gives you a little more understanding of yourself, a little more compassion for the people you love, and most importantly, something you can actually use the next time an old relationship pattern shows up.

57:29Okay. I love you guys. I have to go rest because we have a big day tomorrow. And I will see you next time and after bedtime.

57:58Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.

From the publisher

You can be wildly self-aware, deeply loving, in therapy, reading all the books, trying your absolute hardest - and still turn into a completely different person the second your relationship gets hard.


Maybe you start explaining yourself, clarifying and clarifying. Or, maybe you shut down and can’t find a single word. Maybe you need to fix it RIGHT NOW while your partner needs hours, or days, to process and be ready to talk about it all. Maybe you say “I’m fine” while internally writing a dissertation called Actually, I Am Not Fine At All and I Want You to Notice. Or, maybe you keep having the same fight in different outfits and cannot figure out why you both keep ending up in the exact same place.


That is what this episode is about. Welcome to the Attachment Styles episode. This is about looking at yourself closely enough to notice the moves you make automatically when connection gets hard, where those moves came from, and whether they are actually helping you build the relationship you want. Because sometimes, the thing that feels completely reasonable in the moment is also the exact thing keeping the cycle alive - until you notice and name it.


Maybe you pursue harder because you want closeness, and your partner pulls away even more. Or perhaps you shut down because you need space, and the other person experiences that as abandonment. Maybe you people-please to keep the peace and then quietly resent everyone involved. Or you wait for your partner to magically know what you need because having to ask somehow makes it feel less meaningful.


Good news: None of this means you are doomed at relationships. It means you have patterns. We all do - and once you can actually see yours, you finally have something to work with.


In this episode, Deena gets into what attachment styles actually mean in real life, how they show up in conflict, and how two people who genuinely love each other can accidentally create a dynamic that leaves both of them feeling completely misunderstood.


You’ll walk away knowing how to:

Spot your own “protective move” before it takes over the entire conversation

Understand why you chase, withdraw, defend, over-function, people-please, or go emotionally offline

Say what you actually need instead of turning your needs into a test your partner doesn’t know they’re taking

Take space without abandoning the conversation

Take accountability for your impact without shaming yourself for having a history

Repair after conflict in a way that changes the pattern instead of just producing another apology

Build more security inside yourself and your relationships without becoming some perfectly regulated robot who never gets triggered


This episode will also be the accountability nudge you might just need to grow. Because understanding yourself isn’t about giving yourself a new excuse; “I have an anxious attachment style” isn’t a free pass to make your partner responsible for regulating every uncomfortable feeling. “I shut down during conflict” doesn’t mean everyone around you has to accept that hard conversations never happen. Your history can explain your reactions, without getting to run the whole damn show. This is where the power is.


You’ll leave this episode empowered - with the new skill of being able to catch the moment where the old pattern usually takes over and ask, “Do I actually want to do this again?” You get to stop making the same move and being shocked when you land in the same place. Learn how to stay connected without disappearing inside the relationship, how to ask for what you need without abandoning yourself, and how to move through conflict without treating every hard moment like proof that something is fundamentally wrong.


So if you’ve ever thought, “Why am I like this in relationships?” or “Why do we keep having this SAME fight?” this episode is your map. Relationship patterns are learned - they’re practiced, they can feel automatic as hell. BUT they do not get the final say. This episode is about growing and healing, and it’ll transform your current relationships - with others, and yourself.


Produced by Dear Media

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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