Sex After Kids: What the Hell Happened? And What To Do About It.

16:29Deena:and I think even one step further than that is after a lot of you know a lot of that and a lot of it not happening is then also the after effect of vulnerability of being like hey this is really affecting me and how I'm starting to view myself are you even attracted to me am I attractive in general am I you know those questions are starting to swirl around but like you said it's not normalized to be able to talk about that. And so they just, to us, seem angry or resentful and you're not giving them enough. You know, there's so much underneath the dynamics that are at play. But I love that tip of imagining your partner saying something else.

17:11Deena:That's what we say for kids. Like when your kid is screaming, I hate you and slamming the door, what they're saying is, I'm out of control and I really need you and I love you. And that's crazy. You're like, what? what?

17:26Kristin:But it's true. It is. And it's true. I think too, you know, like with me coming freshly out of postpartum, I feel like I've been slapped in the face with this reminder that your body changes right after you feel weird. Everything feels just foreign again. And I don't know, like the first time we were intimate, I literally felt like I'd never done that before. I felt like scared, nervous. Just it was it was it was like uncomfortable at first. So I don't know. I feel like there are these very real changes on top of just being like so bone tired, you know, like by the time you get your kids in bed and you're finally you can you're just like, man, I don't want to.

18:11Kristin:I want to go to sleep, you know?

18:13Xander Marin:Yeah. Yeah. The physical aspect is something that most parents are not prepared for either. Like, you know, you typically will get the six week checkup where your doctor will say, yeah, you probably won't die if you try attempting this again. But nobody ever talks about, yeah, that fear of doing it again. If you had any sort of, you know, tears or physical trauma during birth, that can just feel so scary to get back in the saddle again. A lot of women are absolutely terrified and a lot of women will experience pain and discomfort. I mean, here's an absolutely wild statistic for you. 30 % of women, and this is not just new moms, 30 % of women experienced pain the last time they had intercourse.

18:57Xander Marin:Not ever, not in the last month, the last time they were intimate. And our bodies are hardwired to avoid pain, right? Like we avoid things that we think could cause us any sort of pain. So, so many women -

19:12Vanessa Marin:minor discomfort. I avoid things that are minorly uncomfortable.

19:16Deena:I mean, we'll talk about what men, men, you know, like just the smallest man colds, you know what I mean?

19:24Kristin:Having a baby is not for you.

19:26Vanessa Marin:It's not, it's not.

19:28Deena:I own it. If we may.

19:30Xander Marin:So yeah, I mean, so many, you know, so many women will beat themselves up and feel like what's wrong with me. I have no desire. I have no interest in it, but we have to look at like, but why would you be craving something that's physically causing you pain or discomfort. That's not how our bodies work at all.

19:47Deena:I would also add emotional pain. That was something that I really struggled with. And I know a lot of women when there's fertility issues, when there's miscarriages and when sex because something that is connected with traumatic experiences. I know many people who had traumatic births. So there's that emotional component too, where it's not, it doesn't feel good. Like you're saying it's attached or tied to something that's painful. So of course we need to avoid it. So what do you recommend for those who have physical or, and, or emotional pain for women in that situation?

20:26Xander Marin:So first of all, like the first thing you have to do is address the physical aspect of it. Cause again, your body's not going to feel desire and it's not going to feel pleasure if you're feeling pain. So we are huge advocates for people working with pelvic floor physical therapists, pelvic pain specialists, but we need to address that aspect of it first. Then once that is addressed, it's really all about easing your way back into intimacy. So like in male, female couples, we have this idea that intercourse is the main event. It's the home run, you know, and we like, we put that kind of on this pedestal.

21:02Xander Marin:And for so many women coming back to intimacy after childbirth, intercourse feels really intimidating. So instead, what we recommend is really broaden your definition of what counts as sex. Putting a penis into a vagina isn't the only way that you can have sex. It's not the only way you can feel connected to each other. So maybe for a while, sex is going to look like just the two of you cuddling together naked and making out. Maybe it's masturbating together side by side. Maybe it's using your hands on each other, your mouths on each other, a toy. But the more options that you can put on the table of what counts as sex, the more you're going to want sex, the more you're going to enjoy it.

21:45Xander Marin:And it'll just make it feel so much easier to eventually feel ready and excited to have intercourse.

21:51Vanessa Marin:And I think I also want to add, because you were talking about kind of like the emotional pain or the emotional trauma. I think we also do hear from a lot of men that that is an area where they struggle in and then especially feel really uncomfortable. Don't know how to talk about that or address that. You know, like if it's been a, you know, a long trying to conceive journey or whatever, sex can start to feel it can feel transactional. It can feel required. It can feel especially as a man. It's like, well, in a trying to conceive situation, it does 100 percent depend on my body performing. in a very certain way.

22:28And so I think a lot of men, you know, if they've been through a long

22:31Vanessa Marin:journey like that also can get into that place where it's like, yeah, they associate sex with having to perform and then, you know, but they don't know how to reconcile that with, you know, the fact that they also do want, you know, there's the part of them that wants sex and there's the part of them that doesn't want to have to be, you know, like put on display or having to perform.

22:53Kristin:yeah i know i personally did run into that at the end with our last baby if i'm being really honest and it's just i see how they can carry that with them like in our case too it was like we both had covid and i was like i don't care right now frankly i know we've been doing this month after month but like it's go time yeah so yeah yeah yeah so like i'm to be real clear i'm not trying

23:19Vanessa Marin:to like derail the conversation at all and be like, oh yeah, men suffer with this too. But I think that it's such a good opportunity, you know, if that's something that you've been through to just to try to open that conversation up with your male partner of, hey, what is this like for you? It's a great opportunity for vulnerability and for empathy, for understanding, oh, hey, we're both, you know, we maybe both are dealing with the same thing and we're kind of scared to talk to each other about it. And I think, you know, we always say the more vulnerability that you can have together, the more connected you feel and the more likely you are to actually want to be getting back in the saddle.

23:56Xander Marin:Yeah. When it comes to any sort of issues or problems in your sex life, most couples are very hesitant to talk about it out loud because there's this fear of like, I don't even want to like have to acknowledge it. So if I just let it be the giant elephant lurking, like maybe It'll go away. But when you don't talk about it, it's just so easy for each partner to start creating a story in their head of what's really going on. So, you know, you're probably both thinking like, is my partner noticing what's going on? Do they care? Are they just totally disinterested? They don't love me anymore. They're not attracted to me anymore.

24:29Xander Marin:Like our brains can really start to spiral out. So with any sort of difficulty with your sex life, I know it sounds like trite advice like, oh, you just have to talk about it. But genuinely, like we have to talk about it because when you bring those issues out into the light, they often are way less scary than when we keep them inside of ourselves. And like Xander was saying, it's that vulnerability of saying, hey, this is something I'm struggling with. Like vulnerability creates intimacy. see. If we're not vulnerable with each other, like you're not going to feel connected to each other. So I think a lot of times we get so scared of being vulnerable that we forget vulnerability is the path to us feeling that level of connection that we all want to feel with each other.

25:20Kristin:Okay, listen, I used to think I was not a minivan person. And then I had multiple kids and I realized, oh, OK, this isn't a car. This is a survival strategy. And I have to say, after looking at lots and lots of different minivan options, the Chrysler Pacifica, it's the MVP of survival. Kristen and I, we actually text about this all the time. Like we are officially at that chapter of life where we're minivan people now. When it comes to the Chrysler Pacifica, we're talking room for everyone, up to eight people, plus all the things, strollers, dance bags, soccer cleats, someone's half-eaten granola bar collection.

26:00Kristin:You know what I mean. And their stow-and-go seating, it's a game changer. You can fold the seats flat into the floor for major cargo space. And if you've ever tried to open a car door with a baby in one arm and a toddler screaming in the other about their sock being wrong, the hands-free sliding doors and powerlift gate will feel like a miracle for you, friend. And my personal favorite feature, the FamCam. So this is a night vision camera that lets you keep eyes on the back seat because silence in the back seat is suspicious. That's right. Plus, it's got built-in Amazon Fire TV, heated seats in both rows, a dual-pane sunroof.

26:37Kristin:It's giving luxury, comfort, peace of mind, especially with all the advanced safety features. So discover all the ways a Chrysler Pacifica can make your life and your family's rides easier and more enjoyable by visiting Chrysler.com slash Pacifica today. Okay, so somehow the holidays are already here. I swear it was Halloween like 12 seconds ago, but they're here. And if you're anything like us, you're probably grabbing last minute gifts or you're probably trying to put your guest room together before your family gets here. and, you know, find throw pillows that don't have chocolate on them or make the room look like it wasn't just a laundry dump zone a few hours ago.

27:17Kristin:Guilty. Well, I have one little secret that I lean on very often. Wayfair. Seriously, they have saved me so many times. Over Thanksgiving, for example, my family was coming to visit and I realized that in the guest room we had one sad towel. So I quickly hopped on Wayfair, grabbed a full towel set, Got some holiday throw pillows, a cute little bench for the end of the bed. It came together so fast and it looked like I legit put time into planning it. Not only that, so much of my home is from Wayfair. I have side tables. I have chairs in my living room that are from Wayfair. So I use it all the time.

27:56Kristin:And whether you're hosting, you're gifting, you're panic decorating, Wayfair is your one-stop shop. Bedding, bath, storage, even big stuff like dining tables or beds. and it's all shipped free. Their holiday gift guide makes it really easy to find something for anyone. So even the kids' rooms can get a little refresh to make the holidays feel extra special. My mom always did that for me as a kid and I still remember the cozy feeling of it to this day. Get last minute hosting essentials, gifts for all your loved ones and decor to celebrate the holidays for way less. Head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home.

28:32Kristin:That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R.com. Wayfair. Every style, every home.

28:39Deena:The other day somebody asked me what my hobbies are and I was racking my brain trying to think like, what do I like to do? What do I like to do? And the answer is sleep. I love bed. I treat my bed like it is the place for me to just indulge in myself and my sleep. And that is why I love avocado mattress. The mattresses are made using premium organic materials, GOLS certified organic latex, and GOTS certified organic cotton and wool, delivering luxury performance and durability. This impressive lineup of certifications sets their mattress apart, ensuring the highest health and safety standards for infants, toddlers, and kids.

29:23Deena:Avocado mattresses are GreenGuard Gold certified for low emissions and MadeSafe certified non-toxic. This was really important to me all because we all worry about the crib mattresses and go above and beyond. And I spent so much time researching crib mattresses that I realized, oh my God, my kids come into my bed almost every night at this point. And so my mattress needs to be at the same standard. Plus, we actually just leveled up and got avocado mattresses in our kids' rooms because babies and kids need proper support for their growing bodies. And Avocado's array of infant, toddler, and kids' mattresses are soft and comfy yet supportive to adapt to various sleeping positions and body types supporting overall physical development.

30:04Deena:With code BLF, you'll save an extra$25 on crib and kids' mattresses on top of their holiday sale. That's an extra$25 off their current sale at AvocadoGreenMattress.com with the code BLF. Avocado, dream of better. I would even also argue, on the same token, on the other side, disconnection is a lack of vulnerability, right? You just get more and more and more disconnected. Since Dina was nice enough to share, I'll share, which is on my husband's side recently because we have not been talking about it. And so it got to the explosive moment and he let out a, you only want me when you want to have kids.

30:45Deena:You use me as a sex vehicle when you want to have kids. It was no problem having sex back when you wanted to get pregnant. And I secretly was drowning in like, I had gained some weight and some people were making fun of me online and so I secretly on the inside I was like he's not touching me as much he's not like outreaching as much because like I'm this and I've gained weight and I'm fine he's not attracted to me anymore and how long had this been doing inside of ourselves was probably months creating more and more disconnect and like he's not reaching out because of this and I'm not reaching out because of this and so then we're even more disconnected more disconnected and both of us had like stopped and we're like oh, no, that's not true.

31:25Deena:Like, that's not at all. I thought you just thought I was fat, you know? And he's like, what? Like, oh my God, you know, he's horrified. And he was like, and so it really just all it took was one vulnerable conversation to clear that up.

31:37Xander Marin:I appreciate you both being so vulnerable and being willing to share those stories. I think it just, it normalizes it for everyone. And it helps, you know, it helps us feel less alone in that. And that's the, literally the perfect example. And especially with body image, you know, I want to touch on that because I know that's such a huge thing that comes up during the entire, you know, like while you're pregnant, postpartum, you know, changes to your body can just really derail sex drive and confidence for so many of us women. And we've had some fascinating conversations in our community and even Xander and I in our relationship of just talking about the ways that as women, the ways that we've been socialize to view and treat our bodies, our entire lives is so radically different from the ways that men see women's bodies.

32:28Xander Marin:And so saying something like that, you know, as vulnerable as that must have felt to say, like, I just thought you thought I was fat and didn't want me, you know, then you got to see like that disbelief from your husband. Like, it's like, it doesn't compute.

32:40Vanessa Marin:It literally

32:41Deena:does not compute. He's like, I literally have never, like, never been more attracted. Like, please let's go right now that's that could not be less true and I think you're right I mean men in general especially with their spouse like we women have such a hot we think we need to look like Ariana Grande and I'll never look like Ariana Grande and like that is not what men that's not what men want that's not what your partner wants like your partner wants you and however you are is how they want you how exactly you were talking about earlier this was the part two that I was saying that was really astounding to me was I think we all fall into the trap, not just men, of wanting things to go back to the way they were.

33:20Deena:And you said something, it's never going to go back to the way it was. And I love that because I actually always say that. I'm like, listen, I've seen enough Gottman reels to know we're never going to get to the honeymoon stage again, unless we like divorce and find another partner or find our way back to each other. It's just Like chemically is not possible. So can you first of all explain from your side why it's not possible to get the exact same level of honeymoon first vibes, sexual chemistry, and then explain what you can expect and how to go about making that new, healthy, good for both partners reality?

34:00Xander Marin:Yes, this is so important. So physiologically, it is not possible for us to sustain that level of chemistry and connection in those early stages. So researchers have studied our brains when we're meeting somebody, falling in love, dating them, and the neurotransmitters and the hormones that are just surging through our brains are wild. Like it is literally our brains falling in love look the same as our brains on cocaine. Like it's that intense. And our bodies are wired to not be able to sustain that. Like it's important for us to find that person, to create that connection, to decide, okay, we're doing this together, but we are not able to sustain that level of intensity.

34:47Xander Marin:I mean, literally like think about how insane you were at the beginning of your relationship, like how much time you would spend thinking about that person. Like, what am I going to wear for date night? Oh, I wonder if he's thinking about me, when's he going to call me? Like, if you were like that all the time, life would be crazy.

35:03Vanessa Marin:You might not actually like it.

35:04Xander Marin:We wouldn't get anything done. We'd just be like teenagers obsessed with each other. Yeah.

35:08Vanessa Marin:All your friends would be like, all right, all right. Shut up. It's a bit much.

35:12Xander Marin:It's a bit much. So like, but I just think it's really important to normalize that. Like, physically, our bodies can't continue that. So those neurotransmitters and hormones tap out at about six months, 12 months, if you're lucky. That's like the absolute high end. After that, we shift into a totally different stage of creating like really deep bonds and connection and security with each other. And so I think there is something important about grieving that loss of the honeymoon stage. Like there's nothing like falling in love with your person. That's a beautiful stage. And yes, I would love to be able to go back there and relive that and feel that.

35:55Xander Marin:So it's okay to feel a sense of grief around that. And at the same time, I think we need to honor the gifts of that more secure stage with each other of knowing like, hey, you're not going to break up with me if I do something a little bit weird, or I can put on all my disgusting stained sweats and you're going to still want to have sex with me. You know, there's a different level of trust and security that we get in a longer term relationship that you'll never have at the beginning of a relationship. So it's, you know, it's all about honoring the joys and the challenges of each stage. But again, with that normalization of if you're not feeling that hot and heavy feeling that you had for each other, nobody is.

36:40Xander Marin:Don't worry, you're not alone. Like nobody is.

36:43Vanessa Marin:But I will say, I think once you do, you know, shift into that much more like longer term insecure type of relationship, there are other things available to you that were not available in early stages of a relationship, you know, in terms of like the type of connection that you can feel, the types of things that you can accomplish together. And I think even when it comes to something like sex, like the type of sex that's available to you is totally different. Like Vanessa and I just went on a vacation like last month. We had two like absolute just like peak experience, like sexual experiences together.

37:23Vanessa Marin:It was awesome. It was amazing. And talking about it, like there's no way that that could have ever happened at the beginning of our relationship because it's like we know each other. We were able to talk about what it was that we wanted to do and we understand each other's bodies and all these things. And so I think that, you know, yeah, we can romanticize all the stuff about the past, but also like that stuff in the past was, it was super stressful. The stakes were really high. Like, oh my God, are we going to break? Are we going to make it? Are we going to break up? Are they going to think I'm weird?

37:55Vanessa Marin:All this stuff. And so, you know, I think that, you know, it's, it's, it's important to accept here. You know, I am where I, we are where we are. And rather than focusing on, you know, what some of those things used to be like, it'd be like, Hey, well, what can we do now? that is really incredible because we have this bond, because we have all this knowledge of each other.

38:15Kristin:That's so true. You've built such a foundation with each other that you can kind of work from. I know too that I personally went through this one and I know a lot of mom, women, people in relationships as parents struggle with this, which is you mentioned the mental load, this invisible load that can often become really uneven in a partnership after kids. And once that resentment starts to build, I know for me, that was one of the hardest kind of triggers of not wanting to be intimate anymore. And I start to shut down and honestly look at my partner in those moments and be like, you know what?

38:57Kristin:I'm just grossed out by you. I just would rather not. What is your advice for someone who's in that situation?

39:05Xander Marin:So I'm really glad that we're starting to talk so much more about mental load. It's really just been in the past few years that this has become this bigger conversation. And so many women are having this experience of like, oh, yes, that's what it is. That's this feeling that I've been having. We're so grateful to finally have this label for it. And I see that a lot of men are lagging behind that because they haven't had that experience. There's not that instant recognition of, oh yes, that's the thing. So what we're seeing in relationships is so many women who are trying to get their male partner on board with this idea of mental load.

39:42And he's kind of like, I don't know.

39:44Xander Marin:I don't get it. Like, I wash the dishes. I take out the trash. I ask you, hey, tell me if you want me to do anything, right? And so I think that in a really great way, sex can help open the door to that conversation. So if you can make that connection for your partner of, hey, this whole mental load thing, this isn't just about I want you to wash the dishes more often or take the trash out more often. Mental load, I'm realizing I listened to this podcast and they talked about it. you know, it's actually impacting my desire. And so I would love for us to talk about it, to come up with a plan for the mental load so that we can have a more active, intimate, connected sex life.

40:29Xander Marin:We've had so many men in our community, like that connection has set the light bulb off for them of, oh, okay, I'm on board with this now.

40:38Vanessa Marin:Yeah. I think so many men get, you know, in this, in this point that Vanessa is talking about so many men, their biggest fear in their relationship is, I don't know if my partner likes sex anymore or wants to have sex with me. And that's a scary, that's a scary question to be asking yourself. And given all the challenges that men have with expressing emotion, that feels like a topic that is like, oh, I could never raise that. That just seems like a huge fight waiting to happen. It's not worth it. Right. So I think the, one of the most important things that you can do, you know, if you're a female partner is to be able to express to your partner, how much, how sex is important to you.

41:19Vanessa Marin:And it's specifically how sex with them is important to you. So even phrasing it like, Hey, I want to be having more sex. I love having sex with you. And I'm starting to realize one of the biggest things that gets in my way. It's not that I don't want to have sex with you. It's that my brain, like, like I think about sex and then I see all these things that need to be done. Or it's like, even it's like, we start doing it in the bed and I see all the clothes there. And it's like, I can't, I can't enjoy myself. And so, you know, I think even phrasing it that way, where it's not like if you did more than maybe I would be open to having more sex.

41:56Vanessa Marin:Cause then that almost feels like a trade, but yeah.

41:59Xander Marin:The dish is like a good boy. Yeah. And that is, yeah, that is not If you're hungry today, then... And that's not what we want. Yeah.

42:06Vanessa Marin:Now, if that's like a fun, kinky thing that you want to set up, absolutely. I might. I might, Xander. Yeah. If you're into that, then absolutely. But make sure you guys, you talk about that beforehand. But no, otherwise, yeah. And it's where it's not like, oh, if you do this, then I'll do this for you. It's more of, you know, I want this. I want this and I want you. And there's this third party that's getting in the way that, you know, maybe we can help attack together.

42:33Deena:The holidays are coming up and I'm going to share with you a makeup brand that I am obsessed with because I want to look good. Okay, I'm going to be very honest. I want to look good too. I don't want to be the one where my kids are all in their like dress up clothes. They look amazing. They look immaculate and then I'm the last one that I think about and then I roll downstairs in sweatpants. That's not happening this year. This year, I'm actually going to try to make myself look a little bit put together and a little refreshed. I just stocked up on a bunch of products from Jones Road Beauty because rather than having this sort of heavy kicked on look where I have to apply a million different things, all of their products are super natural looking.

43:13Deena:So it just looks like your enhanced skin glow. I love their products because they give me the effortless natural look that I'm looking for, especially with little kids. I don't want to be going in there looking like Dolly Parton. Bless Dolly Parton. I think she's amazing, but I want to look natural. I want that like subtle natural glow. Starting November 6th, Jones Road is launching their most giftable and exclusive holiday collection yet. All five limited edition kits in the collection are trios that include new holiday shades, products, and packaging. The collection is full of effortless yet party-ready essentials that you can wear for any occasion.

43:53Deena:Simplify your routine with makeup that's clean, strategic, and multifunctional and don't miss out on their limited edition holiday sets. They won't be here for long and once they're gone, they're gone. Also, as a treat for our listeners, you'll get a free cool gloss on your first purchase when you use code BIGLITTLEFEELINGS at checkout. Just head to jonesroadbeauty.com and use code BIGLITTLEFEELINGS at checkout. After you purchase, they will ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them our show sent you.

44:21Kristin:Besties, it's Dina here. Fresh off of mat leave, I have had the humbling reminder once again that feeding can be one of the most emotional parts of new parenthood. Looking back, I feel like I got slapped in the face with it the first time, and then I expected it a little bit more the second and now the third time. But each journey came with its own unique challenges and bumps in the road. But here's the important part. No matter how you feed breastfeeding, combo feeding, formula feeding, it is a journey. All of them are hard in their own ways, and you need to do what is best for you, for your baby, for yourself, for your mental health.

44:56Kristin:I've been there. I've been in the position where I'm just trying to hold it all together while figuring out what's best for my baby and my mental health. And along the way, in all of my journeys, one thing that I became so, so grateful for is Bobby. I have used Bobby with all three of my kids at some point, and their formula is USDA organic, European inspired, and created by moms who couldn't find what they were looking for on the shelves. So they built it themselves. And in today's world, I know with formula, safety really matters. Bobby loses sleep over every batch so that you don't have to.

45:28Kristin:Each one goes through over 2 ,000 safety and quality tests, plus third-party testing before it even leaves their U.S. manufacturing facility. So whether you're exclusively formula feeding, you're combo feeding, or you just need kind of like that backup can in the pantry, in case you have one of those we-need-something-right-now kind of moments, Bobby has your back with clean, high-quality formulas modeled after breast milk. And Bobby has been named Topped Organic Infant Formula of 2025 by BabyList, and it's trusted by over 700 ,000 babies. So if you're going formula route and you want to feel confident about what's in your baby's bottle, head to HiBobby.com and use code FEELINGS for 10 % off.

46:07Kristin:That's H-I-B-O-B-B-I-E dot com with the code FEELINGS. Friends, I know you understand when I say this. Some health routines are basically a full-time job. There's powders, there's scoops, there's mysterious blends that just taste like regret. Or at least that's me, because I'm pretty sensitive to how things taste and texture, so I'm really, really specific about what I will or will not actually use daily. And that's why Vital Vitamins Age Defying Bundle is such a game changer. It's wellness made simple. No blender, no mess, just three clean research-backed supplements and easy-to-take capsules.

46:42Kristin:You've got the Multi-Collagen Complex Plus with five types of collagen, biotin, hyaluronic acid, and vitamin C to support skin, hair, nails, and joints. It's basically your glow-up crew, just all in one. Then there's Brain Booster Plus, a caffeine-free nootropic blend that helps support focus, memory, and mental clarity without the crash. Think of this one as your mental reset button. And then there's NAD Plus, which supports cellular energy and healthy aging. It's the same coenzyme that a lot of celebrities are getting IV drips for, but it's in a capsule form, so way easier and way more affordable.

47:18Kristin:If your goal is to feel good, stay sharp, and make your routine actually stick, this bundle checks every box. And Vital Vitamins is giving you 20 % off all orders with the code BLF at myvitalvitamins.com. That's code BLF at myvitalvitamins.com. 20 % off. Capsules, not chaos. You know what I'm saying? that's code BLF at myvitalvitamins.com. 20 % off.

47:45Deena:I don't know if you've seen all the reels on the TikToks. It's called like chore play. Oh yeah. Instead of foreplay. Because I also, I want to segue also into, and I know a lot of this is about females, but you know, a lot of moms are listening about female pleasure, female desire, because I think obviously that's a big part of this equation is we have no desire, but the chore play thing was really cool to see online because when we think of foreplay and we think of sex and then I'm like okay like we're gonna do foreplay just sounds like another thing I have to do right like that is not enjoyable that's part of the problem here and then when you see it what is it that would make women but specifically moms because the woman I was before kids would want something very different to have sex with my partner like perhaps a romantic date and connection and candles and you know whatever it is now as a mom what I need in order to be ready to have sex or want to have sex is like a clean house the lunch boxes are already taken care of I don't have to think of the 500 things for tomorrow my brain's actually a little bit more clear the counters are clear I'm ready for sex time like this is cool you've just opened up a capacity for me to like want to plus by the way watching you clean up the countertops kind of attractive you know it wasn't 10 years ago but it is now so can you talk a little bit about what it is especially in this sort of era that we're in that give women a little bit more drive to have sex and then also how they can get past I think the biggest thing is just like I just I just don't want to.

49:29Deena:Not only am I just too tired, but I have too many things. And so I cannot add one more thing.

49:35Xander Marin:Yeah. So first of all, what we're talking about a bit here is a model that we came up with called the initiation styles. You guys have probably heard of the love languages, like this idea that we all like to give and receive love in different ways. It's similar, but it's about how we like sex to be initiated. So we have a free guide for understanding the six different styles. It's at vmtherapy.com slash styles. So people can go check that out there. But one of the types is called take care of me. And this is exactly what you're describing is you like seeing your partner take care of things around the house, just be a competent, responsible adult, take things off of your plate and give you a chance to just relax.

50:17Xander Marin:So there's, I mean, there's a couple of dynamics. I think there is something very sexy about competence. just seeing your partner like I don't have to tell you what to do I don't have to remind you you just see something and you do it and you're taking care of it but it also lets us feel taken care of in that moment too so if that is your initiation style one of the best hacks for making a little bit more space and desire for sex is how you guys handle bedtime so can dad take care of bedtime. He's putting the kids to bed. He's completely in charge of it and give mom some time to herself because we also need so many moms struggle and just people in general.

51:02Xander Marin:A lot of us struggle with making that transition from go, go, go mode. I'm in mom mode. I'm doing all the things. And then we feel like we're supposed to just flip a switch and now I'm in sexy mode and like totally turned on and horny and ready to have sex. Like that's a wild transition to make. And you are not going to go from one thing to the other. I'm sorry. It's just not going to happen. So instead, we need a transition. We need to come back home to ourselves first before we can connect with our partner. So if he can handle bedtime, that gives you some time to take a freaking shower, maybe wash your face, maybe read a little erotic fiction or listen to something, maybe get out your toy and get started on your own first.

51:43Xander Marin:But that can be a great way to just give you some time or maybe it's even just I'm going to sit in the closet and scream into a pillow for a minute like it just gives you a time to make that transition to yourself before you can

51:56Deena:then connect with him that's a really good I that's a really I never really actually thought about the transition period that feels that's like that's like I feel like 99 some of it is the mental load where it's just like there's shit everywhere I can't even think about doing one other thing but the other thing is just like how are you coming up behind me right now when like we, I was just covered in vomit. Like my hair is like, you know what I mean? Like they just went to bed one second ago. I can't even think yet. So that's a really, that's a really, really great tip building transitions.

52:27Vanessa Marin:That's it. And it's, yeah, that's why it's so valuable to, to, to, you know, look at those styles and figure out which one you are because yeah, many people are going to be that take care of me type, many women, probably many more women than men will be that type. And so this would be really great advice, but there are different, you know, there's, you know, both Vanessa and I happen to be more of what we would call the play with me type where like we get, you know, we like, you know, kind of like joking and playing around and laughing together. Like that's probably the quickest way for us to both feel like turned on and excited and wanting to say yes.

53:05Vanessa Marin:And, you know, whereas, you know, there are, you know, there is a type where actually like a more physical initiation might actually work for you. And so, you know, I think that one of the challenges in the sort of social media era is like, you know, you see a TikTok or a reel where someone, you know, gives this one tip and you're thinking, oh, okay, well, we got to, we got to try this in our relationship, but like, yeah, it might not work for you because it depends on what your personal style is. And it's not to say it's the only way that sex can be initiated, but that's the best and quickest way.

53:37Vanessa Marin:And so I think it's just so important to better understand what type you are, what your partner is, so that you guys know how to start speaking each other's language better.

53:45Deena:I'm going to say to everyone listening to this podcast, though, that chore play is it. Yeah. Right now. I'm not saying forever. I'm not saying 10 years ago. But today, I think chore play, we can all agree. That's what's going to lead to sexy time.

54:00Kristin:I used to be a play with me girl. Like before. Or all the kids. No, I'm like, I don't want to play for one more minute. I've been playing all day. Yeah.

54:07Deena:I want you to clean up the counters. And then I want us to go hard right now. You know what I mean? Quick and let's do it.

54:13Kristin:I'm like, take care of me, please. I'm so tired. Take care of me. I'm so tired of people. Just don't be. Please take care of me.

54:22Deena:Can I ask? Let me ask one more thing about. God, I can't remember what podcast I heard this on, but it was really mind blowing to me. Maybe Gottman. Oh, God. I don't know what it was. But emotional safety and in terms of male-female dynamics is huge at play when it comes to feeling desire from a female towards their male partner. Have you encountered a lot of that and seen a lot of that where they were saying something like most women have experienced, you know, not so great experiences with men before and and and men, they are taller than us. They are bigger than us. And let's say they explode over the dog food or they kind of, you know, bark at you or they're barking at the kids or they become a little more explosive or angry.

55:11Deena:You know, they become kind of angry dad and just how how closely tied emotional safety and stability is to a woman's desire to have sex or even ability to open up and have sex. It's sort of that vulnerability, if you will. Yeah.

55:31Xander Marin:We talk a lot about the interplay between physical connection and emotional connection. And then can we give you our three tips for exhausted parents how to feel more emotionally connected in less than 60 seconds? Please do. Please, God. Hit us with it. Why didn't we start with this? Yeah, here's the baseline.

55:48Vanessa Marin:This is a good baseline.

55:49Xander Marin:Yeah, because, I mean, I want to be realistic, too. A lot of times people hear emotional connection and they're like, we don't have the time for date night and we can't go on a romantic vacation and all this stuff. So if we want to be really practical, we have three tips that you can do all together in under 60 seconds that are research backed that will help you feel closer to each other right away. So we call this our get intimate technique. The G-E-T stands for three different things. So G stands for gratitude. Research has found that gratitude is the number one predictor of marital satisfaction.

56:25Xander Marin:and gratitude is all three of these things are free easy fast they feel good to give and to receive they're so simple because I think one of the greatest tragedies of being in a long-term relationship is we choose to spend our life with somebody and then we wind up feeling invisible to them we start paying more attention to the stuff that drives us nuts about them the things that they're not doing rather than the things that they are doing and as disconnected as the two of you might be, I promise you, you can still find one tiny thing every day to feel grateful for.

56:58Vanessa Marin:Even if it's something that your partner is already responsible for, like, you know, one person does the dishes. Hey, I it's, I feel so grateful that, you know, the kitchen is, you know, always, always clean. I, you know, whatever it's, it seems silly, but even just, I think a lot of people get stuck on like, Oh, well, I can't thank them for that. That's like part of their, you know, that's their job.

57:20Xander Marin:But yeah, no expressing gratitude for each other, something that you appreciate, something about they, something they did, something about who they are as a person. Just tell them something that you're grateful for every day. The E stands for eye contact. And it's the similar sort of feeling like we make so little eye contact with our partner. We are literally not seeing them all day long. Like I would challenge anyone listening, Just spend a day looking at how paying attention to how little eye contact you make with each other. It's pretty wild. But eye contact is such a fast and easy way to feel more connected to each other.

57:56Xander Marin:And like it's it's vulnerable to make eye contact, right? Like you like we usually will start giggling after a few seconds. But if you make, you know, try making more eye contact with your partner when you say hello and goodbye. When somebody comes into the room, you don't have to do this like, you know, soulful eye gazing for five minutes in a row, but like make a little more eye contact. You'll be surprised by how vulnerable it feels. And then the T stands for touch and specifically non-sexual touch. Most people in long-term relationships, we stop touching each other outside of sex. So then as a result, we get really on guard around touch.

58:35Xander Marin:Like what woman has not been washing the dishes and your husband comes up and grabs your shoulders and you flinch because you're like, I know what you're going for, buddy. Like we actually call that the bristle reaction because you feel your body tense up. So we want to break that connection that touch is supposed to lead to sex. And touch is one of the most basic, fastest, easiest, most powerful ways that we feel connected to each other. Like human beings are so touch driven. So this one, it's kind of cheating. There's two specific types of touch that we have good research on. One is the 30 second hug and the second is a six second kiss.

59:14Xander Marin:So you can do all those things, the gratitude, the eye contact, a hug and a kiss. You can do those all together in under 60 seconds. I promise you, if you did each of those things, most days of the week, you would feel so much closer to each other.

59:30Deena:My husband's going to be like, what happened? Like I'm going to report back to you guys at tonight. He's going to be like, is there something? Is there something in my eye? You know, there's chaos and kids everywhere and like mac and cheese. They'll just be like staring at him while touching him. I'm just going to try it out. And then I'll tell him why we're doing it. And then we'll do it for you.

59:48Xander Marin:Please, please. It's so funny. Yeah. People will, partners will be like, what? Huh? What are you doing? Because we do it so infrequently. I bet.

59:57Deena:Yeah. We're just shuffling. We're just shuffling, surviving. We're in triage. Like we're literally in triage most of the day and then we're dead. And then, you know, wrap me in my furry blanket, turn Bravo on, and let's just sit quietly next to each other and send each other memes. Sleep and start again the next day.

1:00:12Kristin:But no, I feel like we covered so many helpful things, whether it's getting to know yourself and what's comfortable for you. And it all kind of comes back to having those really honest, open, vulnerable conversations too. So, so key. I have so many other questions. I feel like I could chat with you so much longer, But thank you so, so much for coming on today with us.

1:00:36Xander Marin:Thank you for having us. Yeah, we'll have to do a part two there. I'm like, oh, wait, but we didn't talk about this and this and this.

1:00:41Deena:No, we need part two. We didn't even talk about female pleasure. We didn't talk about orgasms. I know, that's the main thing.

1:00:47Xander Marin:I just have, I'll leave us on this that you likely, if you think I have low desire, no desire, something's wrong with me, it's likely that you don't have a desire problem. You have a pleasure problem. If we're not enjoying the sex that we're having, it doesn't make any sense for us to crave it.

1:01:04Deena:Part two, my friends. Part two is coming. This was the chore play episode. We had to just lay the groundwork. And the next episode will be like real spicy, actual, how are we having sex tips? Thank you so much for coming on. I'm such a big fan of yours. I'll continue to be watching you guys pretend to have sex on Instagram. I can't wait. And keep doing what you're doing because it's helping a lot of people.

1:01:27Xander Marin:Thank you so much. Yeah. And if any of your listeners want to come follow along and watch us make fools out of ourselves on Instagram, we're at Vanessa and Xander and Xander's with an X.

1:01:37Deena:Yeah, please follow them. They're a great follow. It's probably my favorite follow. Honestly, I see I see your content like the first thing that pops up. So I'm a I'm an avid follower.

1:01:46Xander Marin:Big fan. Thanks so much, guys. Thank you. Thanks, you guys. See you soon. Okay. We have a free guide about the initiation styles that anybody can get at vmtherapy.com slash styles. Thank you.

1:02:27Kristin:interest in products or services referred to in this episode.