The Mental Load Solution: The New Tool That *Actually* Sets You Free

0:00The following podcast is a dear media production. Welcome back to After Bedtime. Today's episode is going to completely change how you think about the mental load, why it feels so heavy, why it's not getting better no matter how many well-meaning conversations you're having, and the exact practical shifts that actually will make it lighter. We have a guest today who's coming on to unpack it all and give us real tools that you can start using today. Welcome to After Bedtime, where the house is finally quiet, but the real noise begins. The thoughts, the questions, the wondering if you're doing any of this right.

0:42We're Kristen and Dina, child behavior experts, moms, and co-founders of Big Little Feelings. And we're not here to give you more pressure or perfect parenting energy. Nope. We're here to tell the truth, the unfiltered, beautiful, brutal truth about what it means to raise kids and re-raise ourselves in the process. Because parenting isn't just about sleep schedules and snack hacks. It's about healing. It's about breaking cycles. It's about becoming the kind of adult you want your kids to grow up to be. This is the place where we say the quiet parts out loud, and we're so glad that you're here.

1:17Okay, before we dive into all this with our guests today, let's catch up, besties. Okay, I had this moment this morning where my four-year-old was getting ready for his little preschool day, and he said, let me get my backpack. Okay. I froze. I literally froze in my tracks when he said this because he said backpack and not pack pack like he used to. And oh my God, it killed me. It like my mom heart. I could not handle it. It was just that moment where it's like, okay, they're really growing up right in front of my eyes. Pack pack is gone. I'm never going to hear pack pack again. And it's so amazing to watch who they're becoming and see them grow into these really just lovely and thoughtful, creative little beings finding their place in the world.

2:07And at the same time, I'm watching my babies disappear and it makes me feel really sad. Like right now, I'm so hyper aware that they still want to hang out with me and they want snuggles and they actually want to play with me. And I just know that it's going to change soon. It's not always going to be that way. And that part just kills me. It's really hard for me to handle. And honestly, kind of related makes me just want to have another baby so that I don't have to say goodbye to all these stages. And that's not really like a solution. By the way, this is a no judgment place. Okay. So don't judge me when I say that, because did I just drown in postpartum depression four months ago?

2:45Yes, I did. Like to the point where I needed immediate help. Yeah, that's true. And there's a really confusing part of me that actually goes to therapy for this every single week for the past months now. Somehow I still want another baby. It's actually very confusing to me because it's like this thing where it's like, I have a fear of having another baby because then I'm going to have to divide the pie of attention for one more kid. I'm going to start to be stretched so thin. And is everyone going to get what they need. And I have this fear of like not having another baby. I don't know how to describe it.

3:18I really thought I was going to have three and feel completely at peace with it. Like I have a friend, she has two and she's like, I feel done. Like I know in my heart, I'm good with my two. I'm done. Like chapters closed. And I thought I was going to have that feeling after the third and I do not. And I am so confused by it. And it is not just about, you know, the thing I'm talking about of like watching my kids grow up. That's a small part of it. That definitely is. But there's something more to it. So I don't know. When Kristen's back on our episode soon, I'm going to I'm going to try to unpack it with her.

3:56I feel like we'll have a great convo. Anyways, it's hard seeing your kids grow up. And I guess that's our reminder to really try to be present and soak up all these moments because things are always changing. We have a really amazing guest coming on. And I mean, I guess to tie it all together, If you do want to have more kids, you really got to be able to split the mental load is what I've learned the hard way. But whether you're having more or not, the mental load is such a stressor in so many relationships. It can be draining. It can be utterly exhausting and take you to a breaking point. Ask me how I know.

4:32So today we are talking with Kelly Hubbell, mom of three, founder of Sage House, and honestly, the woman a lot of us needed to hear from five years ago. She was drowning in the invisible labor of running a household, had tried every productivity hack on the internet, and then she discovered house managers, a role most of us have never heard of, and it changed everything. A few years later, on maternity leave with her third baby, she built Sage House to help other families find what she'd found. So today, we're going to get into what house managers actually are, why the mental load isn't really a communication problem.

5:09It is an infrastructure problem. And how even the most progressive partnerships still leave moms holding 71 % of the cognitive load, validating and what she did about it. I actually just stepped off of my Peloton, not joking, to come record this ad. Before I stepped on that Peloton, I was feeling groggy. I didn't want to do it. I didn't really want to do a whole lot of work today either. But now, as always, I feel like a million bucks. I need to have something that is here in my garage where I can just step onto it for the amount of time that I want to. Peloton helps you unlock all the expansive, joyful feelings one gets through movement with Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus powered by Peloton IQ.

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8:03That's Nutrafold.com spelled N-U-T-R-A-F-O-L.com. So without further ado, Kelly, welcome to After Bedtime. Thank you. I'm super excited to be here. No, I'm so excited to have you on because I'm just saying the mental load pretty much broke my marriage. Like if anybody has been here for a while, you know that I nearly got divorced because things had become so unbalanced. I was so resentful in my relationship. It was a really rough thing to work through, but we ultimately did. But it took a lot of work before we dive in. So, Kelly, you're a mom. How old are your kids? Yeah, let's start there. I've got a seven, five and three year old now.

8:50So, I mean, it's weird to say that. But yeah, seven, five, and three and boy, girl, boy, a lot of boy energy in my house. Girl, I got three of them. Yeah, I know, girl. I know. So yeah, so those are my kids. My for more context, like I lived just outside of Portland, Oregon, my husband's an entrepreneur. And I am now an entrepreneur. I'm still trying to identify with that because I came from like a corporate background. But yeah, that's that's me. That's the general family makeup. Oh, I like it. Portland, that's always somewhere I've wanted to live. I have a daydream about it, a little bit of a fantasy.

9:26Do you like living there? I mean, I feel like I live in an enchanted forest and it's delightful. Okay. That's what I had in my mind in my daydream. Your daydream is so accurate and it's a great place to raise a family and it's just wonderful. So we really, really love it. We very intentionally made the decision to live here. actually, we were in the Bay Area before this and, and wanted something we wanted an enchanted forest. So here we are. It's awesome. We've been, we manifested and here we are. I was just going to say you made it happen. It was all you. Yeah. Walk me through those. So you are the founder of Sage house, which I'm very excited to talk about.

10:06Walk me through how you got here. Yeah. Oh, wow. Where do I start? Okay. So on accident, I started this company called Sage out. But no, in all seriousness, very organically is how I got here. So not too dissimilar to you, Dina. I experienced an incredible mountain of mental load. For me, it didn't hit until after we had our second, my daughter. So like I was one of those parents, like moms who, you know, those of us raised in the girl boss era, you can have it all. You can do it all. That was me. I went in my first and I'm going to be a super mom. I'm going to come back from maternity leave early and do it all.

10:45And I did. And I held on so tight to that narrative until I had my second. And then the wheels fell off the bus in my household. And I could not keep up with the mental load and the invisible labor of running my household. And so I was basically at a breaking point. And for me, that was really personal because I saw myself going down the path that I saw my own mom go down. Like, you know how, like we become our mother, like literally I was like, I'm becoming my mother. And I was like, I need to, I, there's some things I love about my mom, but I didn't want to become this. And I knew at that point, like I'm experiencing serious burnout and this is not the path I want to go down.

11:28So I realized at that point, I need to ask for help. It's time for me to find solutions. And, and for me, it was like, you know, I think this was also So the time of fair play, division of labor, mental load was just coming into the conversation. And it was like, hold on, like, I feel like we're doing all the things, but why is this still so hard? And so for me, it was once I realized that this wasn't a personal shortcoming and it wasn't that like we weren't doing enough, it was just a capacity issue. We just didn't have enough hours in the day to do it all, to manage our household in the way that we wanted to and live this really full life.

12:05And so anyway, long story short is I set out to find support, but I didn't know what that looks like because up until this point, right? Our society and culture says, Oh, you're an overwhelmed parent. You just need more childcare. Like, don't you just need a nanny? Don't you just need? And it's like, actually my kids were at the time of preschool. Like we loved that. We had the childcare. We had invested in cleaners who came a couple of times a month. Like I felt like, why do I still feel so overwhelmed? So I set out to find a clone of myself. Like literally, how do I find versatile, holistic support?

12:38Meaning like, how do I find somebody who can like go pick up the prescription, take the dog to the vet, get the gifts for the teacher appreciation next week, laundry, dishes. How can I just find another me? And so I set out to find that long story short is I found it. It was literally so life-changing for me. Like the way my household ramp, my marriage greatly improved, like the resentment, all of it like improved. groups my ability to be present with my kids and I realized like lightning bolt hit me we need this kind of support in our home why doesn't this exist and so then I just started telling women in my network colleagues friends hey I think I found a solution to the mental load and sure enough then women came out of the woodwork hey Kelly we heard you found the solution what is it how do I find this how do I find this kind of support and that was honestly the catalyst for Sage House and I didn't even know I was doing it at the time, but that turned into me then finding a unicorn modern Mary Poppins house manager for other people too.

13:40And now, now at Sage house, we work with a hundred plus families a month all over the U S and Canada to help them find this person and set up the systems to make them successful and to make the relationship successful and onboarding. And we can talk more about that, but that's the story. It's honestly like, whoops, I accidentally stumbled upon this completely just gaping hole in what busy parents need more support with. And not even parents, like households in general. We work with households of all varieties who just need more support. So that's the story. I love this. This is the most mom thing ever, by the way, to see the problem.

14:23Just be like, you know what? I'm going to solve it myself right now. and just take the bull by the horns and completely do it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, it, it's so obvious now, right? Like we have clients who jump on informational calls with me every, every week and they're like, this makes so much sense. This is so obvious. And I'm like, well, yeah, I mean, we're a little bit behind here. Other cultures have actually figured this out by the way. Right. Right. And it does make sense. Cause you know, my husband and I worked very hard. We are two working parents. We do have a nanny part of the week because I literally between us working, Like we just can't do everything like you're saying.

15:00And even then with us having worked so hard to really tackle the mental load and divide it between us, you run into the issue that you're talking about where it's like, okay, I, we're still doing a ton. Right. And like what I really want in my heart, I don't want to do the dishes. I really want to get on the floor and play with my kids. Like I really want to soak up this time with them. And it's still really hard. like even with a great partnership. And I think too, like I've reflected so much on this whole idea of mental load. And I think what's really important is that it's really not just about tasks.

15:42Like you were saying, it's not just about time. Correct. No, there are, when I think about it, at least there are five kind of layers to the mental load. I always think about it like layer one is just noticing like that is the invisible starting point where it's like the milk is low. Your kid is outgrowing their shoes, right? It's that birthday party next. Anticipating. Yeah. Yes. Well then, yeah. Layer two is the anticipating because now your brain has to jump ahead and go, okay, we'll need snacks for that game. He'll melt down if he's hungry. You know, like we need a gift for that party. So now you're anticipating.

16:19And then you go into layer three, which is the planning of it. And that becomes a full blown operation of like, when will I go to the store? Do we have time before practice? Should I order it online? Should I, you know, so you're like, your mind is working. It's so much energy and moving parts all at once. Layer four becomes that coordinating piece of it where this is, I think, what usually gets kind of mistaken in for sharing the load where you're like assigning, reminding, clarifying, following up, like, can you grab this? And don't forget that. And here's this list. And it's so sneaky because on the surface, it looks kind of like things are being split.

17:03But if you zoom out, you're realizing that one person is deciding what needs to be done and breaking it into the steps and communicating and tracking whether it actually happens. And that is so much work. That is not actually task sharing or load sharing in any way if you're doing all those pieces. And then you get to layer five, which is like the execution of it. And finally, that's the visible part of it. The groceries get bought, the lunch gets packed, the gifts get wrapped. And this is like the only kind of thing that people see, which is why people think of it to take it on. It's like that question of someone being like, how can I help?

17:46How can I help? And you're like, well, it's not just about doing this thing. It's these five layers starting with that invisible point. Yeah. It's the invisible before it gets to that final sort of visible place. Yes. Yeah. A hundred percent. So did a lot of work on that one myself, but tell me more because the solution you've come up with is so, so, so appealing. And one barrier to it is obviously like many things in life, it costs money. So walk me through kind of how do families, you know, factor this in? Yeah. Yeah. So let's talk about the barriers really quickly before I get to the barriers.

18:26I love to just double click on what you said, because I think that, I think that that's what, just what you said about like, I'd rather get on the floor and play with my kids. Like, I think it, you know, at the end of the day, It's like, what is it all for? Right. What is it all for? And acknowledging that our time is so valuable and being intentional about the time we have is really, that's what it's all for, right? Like we have, you know, you're in a dual income working household. So am I, I've got an hour with my kids in the morning. And like, honestly, it's just getting out the door. It's like, we got to get out the door.

19:06the very few hours I have in the evenings with them on weekdays, like I want to connect. I want to hang out. I want to be with them. So I think like, we're really flipping this whole model on its head to your point. Like, yes, of course, like you need childcare to get yourself. We need childcare. We still need it. It's like, we still need that. Don't get me wrong. And by the way, I am the first one to acknowledge we still have a massive childcare shortage and issue in our country. But really it's like saying and being really honest with ourselves about like, I don't want to be multitasking while I've just really want to be connecting.

19:39And I want to be spending intentional time is so powerful. And it's, and that's the difference. And that is, that is breaking the cycle. That is what our generation is doing well is breaking the cycle of like, I am not going to be scrubbing pots and pans and folding laundry and doing a hundred other things while I'm trying to have a conversation with my kid. So we want to have conversations with our kids. We want to be intentional about the time that we have with them. And so I just think what you said, like hit me because that's really what it's all for. But let's talk about the barriers because I think that's the first thing that we do is we talk ourselves out of things.

20:16Why are we so good at talking ourselves out of things that are? Well, I agree with you, but I think too, it is like such a privilege to be able to do this. I know personally growing up, there was literally no way that my parents could have ever afforded this. Like we lived penny to penny basically, and, you know, couldn't go on vacations and couldn't even go out to eat at restaurants. So there is this privilege piece that is so important to acknowledge. And let's talk through the barriers because I agree with you. A lot of times we are talking ourselves out of things. Yes. So, and by the way, so much of what you said is relatable to me.

20:53Like I did not grow up with extra support in my home. My mom was a single mom, had four kids, worked, did it all, and burnt herself out as a result, right? Like she developed autoimmune conditions and ended up passing away early at 63. And I saw that like the physical toll that it took on her to hold it all and to be at all. But let's talk about it. I mean, it is a privilege. It's absolutely a privilege. And I think the financial barrier, and I love that we're just like, let's yeah, elephant in the room. Here's what I don't want is for someone to be joining this and say, there's this rich white lady who's just telling me that I need to hire a house manager and it'll solve all my problems.

21:32What I'm saying is your financial decisions are so personal to you. There have been studies and happiness studies around investing in getting more support in your households and a dollar spent on literally buying back your time to spend time with your kids, to spend time on yourself, to spend time growing your business, to spend time however you want. And a dollar spent on a material good and 100 % of the time, the value of spending the money to earn your time back is time better spent. And that's just what we've seen across the board. Now, of course, that's once our basic needs are met. And again, this is a really personal decision.

22:21I will tell you like from my own experience, I think just to make this really real. After we had our second, my husband was a struggling entrepreneur. We were renting a two bedroom apartment in Portland. He had not paid himself a paycheck yet. We were living on one income, which was my income in my corporate sales job. And we still knew at that point, like we'd rather continue to drive our Subaru Forester. And we still have it today. We still drive a 2016 Subaru Forester because for me, I'd rather spend that money on having support in my household than a brand new flashy car. And again, this is such a personal decision.

22:59I think there's a cost to this. And I can get really, really tactical on the cost of this. We see house manager rates between$25 and$45 an hour across the board, across the US. Again, it depends on your cost of living and where you live. It depends on the experience somebody has in the role. and you don't have to go all in at first. So like we started, I want to say eight to 10 hours a week of support. And I'm telling you, eight to 10 hours a week of support in your household gets you so much. Like the moment you said that I was like daydreaming about how much could get done that I wouldn't have to do.

23:33Literally eight hours. Like that is an hour or more per day back in your schedule. Like what would you do with an extra hour in your day? Like what if you walked into your kitchen and like there was no dishes to do? meals were prepped, like groceries were stocked. So you didn't have to go to the grocery store. I mean, how would you be like, Oh my gosh, I have an hour. Like maybe I can catch that workout class. I guess not even that too. Like as a neurodivergent woman myself, there are certain tasks that are just painful. Like, I don't know how else to describe it, but they literally bring pain to my body.

24:09Like for whatever reason I can do my laundry, but for some reason, folding them and putting them back in the drawers, like makes me dissociate and causes me pain. If someone else could do that part, that would be amazing. Totally. Yeah. And so it is, it's part of it is like, how do we distinguish between the tasks that bring us joy and the ones that we don't like, we'd rather be doing any, anything else. We'd literally rather be doing anything else. So I think part of it is joy. It's like, how are we capturing joy? And then I think here's what I say to people on my kind of final point here on the cost and the money conversation, which is I ask people this.

24:51Yes, there's a cost. What is the cost of doing nothing? What is the cost of not getting support in your household? Is it costing you your relationships with your kids, with your spouse, with yourself? Is it your mental health? Is it your physical health? Like the body keeps the score when you are working at a level of burnout, stress, anxiety for too long, your body is going to tell you that I can't do this much longer. And it's going to develop like a physical reaction. So to me, you know, I like to frame it as what's the cost of doing nothing and not getting that kind of support. And I think that really, like, again, this goes back to being intentional with our time.

25:40Like this is available. I think the bigger thing, really the bigger barrier Dina, is that people are like, I didn't even realize that this was a possibility. I didn't even realize that this existed. And then the other big barrier, if we're going to continue down this, this road, and I'd be curious, your thoughts is our, our biggest people ask us all the time, Which who's your biggest competitor? And I say, our biggest, first of all, we're the only nationwide firm that is matching people to house managers. Okay. My biggest competitor is, is the mom herself who feels so guilty just because she can do something doesn't mean that she should like literally it's our own mental barrier of the mom guilt to feeling like, Oh, I wasn't raised this way.

26:31This feels really privileged. How could I possibly ask someone else to do my laundry? That makes me feel uncomfortable, right? Like, honestly, that's the bigger barrier here that I think we're slowly, and it's mind boggling because when you put it in the concept of corporate, of business, of CEOs have a chief of staff, we in our job and our day to day, Dina, you, me, we have hired people in our businesses. We have executive assistants. We have administrative we have people that we've realized like, Oh, my plate's getting too full. I need to hire someone to take things over for me. And honestly, if we can apply these same business principles that we are so good at, we're so good at delegating, we're so good at accountability and in our businesses and in our careers and in our jobs.