The ONE Thing That Actually Matters in Parenting (And What You Can Finally Stop Worrying About) with Dr. Aliza Pressman

8:37In the day-to-day wear and tear of parenting, I feel like most things are minutiae and they

8:42Dr. Aliza Pressman:just don't matter. Even the things that we panic about from social media to substance use or tantrums or anything, ultimately it comes down to the same thing. Cultivate a close connected relationship, have appropriate limits and boundaries and call it a day and like expect you're going to mess up multiple times per hour. But that more often than not, you're like focused on the sort of fundamentals of child development of just like sensitivity of care plus limits and know that that is kind of the gig. So even with screen time or even with everything else, like all the science keeps pointing to like I was thinking about all the studies I've read, and all the books I've read, and all the things over the years, like it always comes down to a variation on the same theme.

9:33Dr. Aliza Pressman:When you get stuck with the sort of minutia of did this exact moment happen the way it was supposed to, it's like, you will be miserable. Like you just will be miserable. But I think like tools for support like you guys have are critical for just day-to-day ease. Like we need to just make life just go a little more smoother, particularly with younger kids. And that that is distinguishable from whether or not you do the right thing and how your child will turn out.

10:06Deena:You mentioned it lightly, but what are those secret ingredients to forming, securing, keeping that relationship? And we're talking all the way from toddlers two teenagers, is there some sort of secret, not so secret recipe or formula or focus on that sort of relationship building and keeping?

10:29Dr. Aliza Pressman:So I wrote a book called The Five Principles of Parenting. Read it. It's great. Thank you. It says nothing revolutionary. It's just like how I translated the research. But it's all kind of what I think is cool is there's some pretty big stuff that we know to be true about what makes a healthy relationship and it's reflection, like being able to kind of pause for a second and think like, what does this moment mean for me with this human that I'm interacting with? And like, what's it bringing up for me? Sometimes I'm not responding to the child. I'm responding to my own stuff. And this is true in romantic relationships and friendships and everything.

11:10Dr. Aliza Pressman:So just reflection and pause. And then regulation, just co-regulating in a relationship, knowing that your nervous system and their nervous system are connected. And like, again, more often than not, that you have access to saying like, it's not an emergency. There's no shark around. Like, I'm going to be okay and they're going to be okay. that that co-regulation builds such a strong capacity for self-regulation, which is kind of the key to life. And then rules are really important to relationships and picking all our words because that's what I do to just make it easy. But whatever, it doesn't really matter.

11:52Dr. Aliza Pressman:It's boundaries and limits, but that's not as catchy. So I think having rules is so important for safety. And when I say I think we all know that this is not my original thought. It's the science of this stuff. But I I would say, like, make sure that the rules matter to you and that they're related to emotional or physical safety of your child, yourself or other humans. And then those are the rules that matter. And that's how you can have a close relationship. And then the final, I think most important part of relationships is repair because we just have too many decades of science proving it.

12:29Dr. Aliza Pressman:Plus my lived experience. Every time I think this is like the final straw and I've totally blown it with my kids and they will never forget that moment. It's over within minutes because repair happens. And I'm always like, holy cow, it's not a scam. And I think if you have those ingredients, you can kind of get through any of this stuff.

12:54Kristin:I feel like the repair is so huge. And that's one thing that in my personal parenting journey, I've really evolved in because at first I wanted to do it like quote unquote perfectly all the time, so badly. And when I would, you know, yell or hit my limit or like say things in a mean way or whatever, and I had to repair, I still was like beating myself up for so long. I would spend that whole afternoon just being like, why couldn't I? What's wrong with me? Like, is it all ruined? And eventually, I feel like you just kind of learn like, yeah, no, you can just repair and move on. You don't have to hang on to the guilt.

13:35Kristin:It doesn't have to mean anything huge about you, about the relationship. And honestly, them learning how to make mistakes, which I've struggled with my whole life, Like making mistakes is so painful, but our kids have to learn how to make a mistake, own it, repair, and then move on.

13:53Dr. Aliza Pressman:It's OK. You can just move on. Like the whole concept of Winnicott's good enough mother, it's so important, but it's also like you can't be a good enough mother without repair. Like relationships are sort of dependent on growth and you can't grow without the small tears of the ruptures in order to repair. I think as we evolve as mothers, if you don't have the muscle tears to grow the bigger muscles, you're not going to have a good relationship. And so you go off into the world and your kids then think relationships are not meant to have the discord. That wouldn't be healthy either. So every time I screw up now, I'm sort of like I've just invested in their capacity to go into the world and not think adults are perfect and relationships aren't supposed to have those moments.

14:44Dr. Aliza Pressman:Meanwhile, my kids are like, we get it. You're not perfect. Like you could do a little better.

14:50Kristin:yeah but repair is actually so so crucial you're right like every relationship is going to have those bumpy moments where you don't understand each other someone says something you have to like repair it build that trust back and then you're golden in your professional opinion mixed with your personal opinion how often can we be messing up in sort of a normal way is what I want to ask

15:16Deena:I think so many of us and layman people out there are snapping when they're at their limit. You know, there's a dog barking and this is happening and they're like, oh, my God, just stop. You know, we're not talking anything extreme. Is this happening every day in certain phases of life? And that's OK as long as we're doing the other things that you're talking about or where where is the limit? it.

15:42Dr. Aliza Pressman:I really think that if you look at the research, you want it to be more often than not. So if you think about your day and you're like, the majority of my day was spent with intentional connection and regulation, the other stuff does not overshadow it. So our goal is like a C. So realistic. Even I got C's. Exactly.

16:07Kristin:I never did. And I'm learning to make mistakes now. You know what I mean?

16:12Dr. Aliza Pressman:The interesting thing about mistakes, although I am really not a perfectionist, if I have one good quality that came very naturally, it was I'm very, again, my children are like, we get it. You're not, we have gotten that from out of the gate. But I will say like getting A's for women feels like if you can, you should. And I think that But it's true for certain things. Like, I don't want my surgeon to be like, most of the time, I'm good. By the way, I don't have a surgeon. I just said that like, I will because I live in LA. Right around the corner. But were I to have a surgeon, I would like you to be a perfectionist and get an A+.

16:58This does not feel like the time and place to sort of do more often than not.

17:03Dr. Aliza Pressman:But in parenting, it is actually necessary for being a better parent. So it's like if you really wanted to be perfect, you'd have to accept the lower grade, quote unquote, because it's necessary for being the better parent. The perfect parent would actually like drive their kid to places that aren't as positive. If you could say like 75 % of the time I've got this and 25 % of the time I'm a disaster, I feel like you're good. Absent of obviously abuse and neglect. But I think like we can state that that's not the conversation here. And I am almost certain that no listener of this particular podcast is in the category of neglectful parent.

17:50Deena:We always say that if you are listening to this or seeing this or whatever it is, you're hearing all of our collective voices, rest assured you're doing okay. I think what you said about women was incredibly insightful, where I don't think that, well, and I could be wrong here, but I don't think men put the same pressure that we do to be the complete perfect parent in all aspects, right? It down to every single activity and every single summer camp and every single interaction and every single, you know, script that we use or every single teeny tiny thing. And I think that's so interesting that you're right, that we women push ourselves to try to be straight A's perfect no matter what it is we are doing, whether you are in school, whether it is your beauty, whether it is you just better be the best or you are failing.

18:40Deena:and there's no way to do that with anything actually without sacrificing or somewhat killing yourself right dina was saying she had straight a's but she was struggling in order to get that she she was really struggling with her mental health putting herself last the only way to have absolute perfection is to crumble what better analogy than in motherhood because you'll never get there, but you will crumble if you try to get close.

19:11Dr. Aliza Pressman:Right. Then we're not even available. So it doesn't serve our kids. And I think like even teenage girls, if you look at how they do in school, they do better than boys, but they get a different kind of A even when the boys get an A. Like the boys know the effort that they need to get the 93 and not the 99. Like, what are you doing with the time that you're spending between the 93 and the 99 even like there's a perfectionism that is sort of both spoken and unspoken in the culture of girls that allows boys to be bigger risk takers positive risk takers and sort of like fall and keep going and I think we see with fathers and obviously I'm speaking like about research and generalizing and And of course, there's always an exception and all of the caveats here.

20:07Dr. Aliza Pressman:But dads, they are wonderful. But they're also like, I'm not that concerned. Like, I'm a dad. I'm connected. I'm doing what I need to do. And I would say, like, I do work with dads, but obviously more moms. But I would say that the dads want Zoom out stuff. The moms are like, I need everything. I need to know it all and I need to manage it all and it's a lot like it's a lot and my kids just the other day my daughter was like we have a little bit of a joke that I love a logistics conversation me too don't you they're so soothing I love logistics and it's so annoying to everybody in my family because they don't like logistics but I was like hey guys I'm just curious like how do you think anything is going to happen if these logistics don't get done and I was just like, I know everybody's super annoyed and, and feels like it's too much, but I just want, like, if I spend a couple of weeks, absolutely with no logistics and no calendar and nothing, let's just, we'll see.

21:14And they were like, absolutely.

21:16Dr. Aliza Pressman:Let's see. And of course, some things didn't fall through the cracks. Other things did, but I would say I was less comfortable with that than, you know, like I think dads would be more, it's a bad example with my husband, because I would say of the two of us, he's much more like on it and more perfectionistic. But generally speaking, it's like clockwork that women just like have so much that they're doing and trying to get done. And if we drop any of these balls, it feels like, ah.

21:46Deena:And I do think it's also doing it perfectly, even right now, even though I wish I wasn't like I'm pretty loose. And now, you know, my oldest is eight and I've learned so much and all these things. But still those minor, you know, the camp, like what camp is it going to be detrimental? mental? Is it going to affect our social emotional health like forever? These minute small things. Are they getting enough protein? He's on the lowest percentile. You know, all of these things that I know in 20 years. But it's the stacking of everything of the mental load, but also doing it perfectly. And I think that every small decision we do tend to think is going to affect them so magnanimously.

22:18Dr. Aliza Pressman:And it really doesn't. Like if I've if I've gotten anything out of being a developmental psychologist, it is that it's that I'm like, this doesn't really matter. Like the camp experience is fantastic. Absent of having one that is, again, like should be shut down, it's going to have benefits even if it's crappy. So, of course, as a mother, you're like, but I want to find the perfect one and I want it to be the right fit. And also, it doesn't matter.

22:47Deena:It doesn't matter. Is that what we should title the podcast? I think so. Or it does matter. But what does matter is relationships. That's what I heard. And that does matter. It's not that nothing matters. It's just what specifically matters. Can we get back to those? What were the three things that you used to worry the most about that you wish you would have just released?

23:07Dr. Aliza Pressman:I definitely think mealtime, like mealtime stuff for sure. I would like to have released. That seems like time not well spent. Full disclosure, I think if you enjoy an adorable lunchbox and all the meals being beautiful, that feels good for everybody. But this is not my particular thing. And so it only was stressful and annoying when, in fact, I think it's kind of the same thing. Like, generally speaking, make sure that things are more often than not pretty colorful and healthy and that the rest is sort of like it'll figure itself out. I was pretty intense about routines, but I think they did matter quite a bit for my day going well and my kids day going well.

24:00Dr. Aliza Pressman:And so I think that's not so much minutiae as like when I broke the routines, my kids got up earlier and I was annoyed. So I would say maybe I would be a little bit more relaxed, make a few more exceptions. Then I went off the rails once they hit a certain age. I was like, I don't I can't stay awake anymore. I take devices. That's my routine. So if you're going to stay awake, there's not much to do. Like I get into bed at like 830. So within 18, 17, 15 and 14, this is not the bedtime. I can't think of a third thing, but like I will. I'll tell you that breastfeeding was like so important to me and how I gave birth was so important to me, except that I ended up having C-sections.

24:48Dr. Aliza Pressman:And so then feeling like because I had C-sections, I had to breastfeed for a year. And it was like a beautiful experience, but it caused a lot of, as we all know, It was a mixed thing and it was so beautiful, but it was also like if I if it was hard or there was a struggle, I felt even worse because I already messed up the first part of it. And I think like what? I never think about that now. I never once I'm like reflecting back on my birth experience or feeding experience.

25:19Kristin:A hundred percent. I, when I think back about my feeding experience, the only thing I think back and would do over differently is like switching to combo feeding faster for my mental health.

25:33Dr. Aliza Pressman:So yeah, feel you on that one. And then the rest is like, it's kind of incredible to watch who our kids are. Like I think temperament does not get enough attention.

25:44Kristin:Mm hmm. Yeah. All kids are so different the way that they're born with their nervous system, their temperament. I don't know if you want to share more. I'd love to hear your thoughts on temperament.

25:54Dr. Aliza Pressman:So I really like how Dr. Thomas Boyce talks about temperament because his research looked at this is both a biology and and neurobiology and psychology of orchid kids and dandelion kids. And then researchers later looked at tulips. But the way he separated temperament, I thought was so cool, which is to say that orchids, the more highly sensitive kids who are more attuned and more, you know, we know these kids or we might be those kids. The feelings are bigger. What I love about his research was finding out, like, why do some kids just thrive under any condition. And those are the dandelions. And some kids don't.

26:39Dr. Aliza Pressman:But in fact, what's really cool about orchids is they are the most vulnerable. That highly sensitive kid is going to be the most vulnerable to the downside of things, but also the most susceptible to the interventions and the positive parenting. And so to me, knowing if you've got yourself an orchid, you can figure out, okay, they actually need a little bit more specific sunlight, water, and soil. Whereas if I've got a dandelion, like it doesn't really matter. Literally, they need sunlight, water and soil, but how much and whatever they're growing through the cracks of the sidewalk. And so that bounce back ability doesn't even respond well to intervention.

27:18Dr. Aliza Pressman:Like it's almost like silly to even think about it because they're, you know, again, absent of terrible stuff that we're not talking about today, they're really going to be doing whatever. And And when you have, if 30 % of the population, 20 to 30 % are the orchid kids, that's a big chunk of people that are walking through the world with a nervous system that's just like really connected with what's happening around them. And so, of course, they're going to be much harder to parent. And then you're going to start questioning yourself as a parent. And if you also are like that, you're going to start feeling the weight of the judgment and the every moment or micro feeling that your child is having.

28:04Dr. Aliza Pressman:And it's sort of it's it's a much more intense experience than if you're raising dandelions. It just is. And I think it's so cool once you're aware of it because you can make different decisions.

28:16Deena:If you're an orchid like I am and then you have an orchid, what's your what is your advice?

28:22Dr. Aliza Pressman:Part of that relationship thing is reflection. So you're reflecting like I'm an orchid. Like I feel things a little bit more than the next person. I notice things a little bit more like the sound of the air condition is going to be more it's going to be louder for me. The tag is going to be crunchier for me. The way that my mom shifted her facial expression that someone else wouldn't have even noticed. I noticed, you know, like she was judging me for that second, like all of these things. So you can reflect on that. And then you have to ask yourself, like, what do I need to raise my orchids so they're not like in a greenhouse?

28:58Dr. Aliza Pressman:Like, I'm not making everything exactly perfect. I'm still going to stretch them, but I'm going to pay more attention that they need more routines. They need more predictability. They need sort of like someone, a support system to help navigate those challenges, maybe take smaller steps, but still do them. And I'm at risk for feeling much more intense when they're struggling. So I have to check myself and say they're totally safe. I might not have been because maybe nobody supported me, but I don't need to like overcorrect by creating this environment that's too tender and too delicate so they don't know how to be in the world.

29:43Dr. Aliza Pressman:But at the same time, not like you have the benefit of knowing like sensitive care is really important. It's a balance. I think we could go a little too far. And I think if you, again, if you're an orchid, you could go too far on the sensitive side. But if you were a dandelion parent who's like, literally just get in the pool, I'm throwing you in. It was fine. It'll be fine for you. Now you just took your little orchid and now they won't trust you. And you were not seeing who they are. And so you have this wonderful benefit of saying, you know what? I know what it's like to be afraid to get in the pool.

30:22I'll sit with you and we'll sit here today and just stick our feet in.

30:26Dr. Aliza Pressman:And tomorrow we'll go a little further. But you won't just say like, I'll never make you experience this because I was scared and I know what it's like and I don't ever want you to feel that way. So I think it's really cool and we just have to pay attention in a different kind of way. When you really start embracing exactly who your kid is, instead of pushing them to be who you want them to be, you can really meet them where they're at and ultimately help them feel safe, help them build the tools, like

30:57Kristin:you're saying, that they need to really thrive in life. But it all starts with just accepting the kid you have and really tuning into that. So yeah, super with you.

31:08Deena:Sometimes for a lot of us, it's less about who the kid we want to have. And it's more about watching all these other kids around them and thinking they should be doing what those kids are doing. And if not, there's something either wrong with them or there's something wrong with your parenting. Right. I'm not like, oh, I need to have a kid who runs out. No, no, no. It's more like, wait, wait, wait, what is happening? All these other kids are laughing and they're playing. I want my kid to be happy. So they need to go out there. and that's the part with having the orchid kid. I remember, maybe this is why I have PTSD about summer camp, but I remember last summer camp for my little orchid, we went to one and every single week was a different camp, different kids, different teacher.

31:49Deena:She had such a hard time and her sister did not. And her sister is fine. You put her anywhere. She's great. And my husband turned to me and said, she's a kid. She needs to go to summer camp. Summer camps are fine for kids, Right. And I'm like, yes. And we're talking somewhere in the middle. Right. Can we find one that's better for her? Can we find one that has the same teacher every single week for or some sort of the same transition, the same topic, whatever it could be? so it's tailored more towards her. She has her safe person, whatever it may be. And that sort of blanket thing that I think we all had when we were kids where it's like they're kids, so they're fine no matter what the situation is, isn't always the truth.

32:31Deena:It's like you can tailor it a little bit without going over the top just to sort of make your little orchid thrive.

32:37Dr. Aliza Pressman:It's like, okay, hey, I feel confident that you're safe. And I know that being scared is totally safe. And we're going to set you up in a place. You're not not having her go, but you're trying to think what will help her thrive, putting her in an environment where everything is just constantly changing. She may not be ready for that, and then it's not going to be productive. I remember sitting at dinner with my daughters and like my younger one, who is my little orchid. And I should say, obviously, temperament is on a continuum and sensitivity is on a continuum. So people aren't categories, but it's just easier for the purposes of conversation.

33:19Dr. Aliza Pressman:But I remember sitting at dinner and my older daughter and I were laughing and smiling and chatting. And my younger daughter was kind of looking at us engaged, but not smiling. And I said, why aren't you happy? And she looked at me, only seven. And she was like, just because I'm not smiling doesn't mean I'm not happy, mom. And I'm like, oh, right. Oh, right. Different people have different temperaments and ways of expressing themselves and being in the world. And I also remember sort of worrying about her when she was playing alone because I was like, are you lonely right now? And she's like, I need space.

33:55Dr. Aliza Pressman:Like, I just need some time to she's a little bit more of an introvert. And because I wasn't any of those things, even though I'm a developmental psychologist and even though I had studied all this stuff, I was like, oh, shoot, I forgot. People are not all the same. I guess it was a parenting fail, but it taught me an important lesson.

34:15Deena:I think we've all failed in that way. We literally have to be checked sometimes to be like, oh, wait, I'm really projecting.

34:21Kristin:I wouldn't even call it a failure. Just being human.

34:24Deena:Yeah.

34:25Kristin:Yeah. It's called being human.

34:26Deena:And it's also on the other side, where if you are very introverted, you're like, wait, I don't want you to be like me. I was so sad and I was so lonely. So I do want you to go out there and play. And then you realize like, oh, wait, I need time to be by myself. I like to, you know, just take things in. And, you know, it's just we all have those humbling moments.

34:47Kristin:I know. I just love that you gave her the skills where she could be like, hold up. Let me clarify for you. Here's what's actually going on. I love that my kids will do that now sometimes when I mess up. And they're like, they're like, mom, let's pause here. You could have maybe said that in a different way. And I'm like, you know what? You're right. You're right. And we're doing it.

35:10Dr. Aliza Pressman:We're doing the work. The kids are going to be okay. Those kinds of moments when they can say like something that they notice and they feel safe calling us out. Like I remember saying to my daughter, this is so aggressive, but I was like, Like, do you want to wear a silver or gold shoes to your, it was her bat mitzvah. And I was, she was wearing a pink dress. I'm like, should I get you silver shoes or gold shoes? And she said to me, she was 12, I guess. And she said, I think I want to get gold. So I ordered two pair of silver and just like, see how you like them. And she said to me, that's fine.

35:46But then say, I'm not choosing my shoes.

35:49Dr. Aliza Pressman:Like you want to choose my outfit. Just admit it. Like, don't say you have a choice. Tell me what you want. just be just be straightforward. Like those little moments of sort of being able to call us out. I don't know why I thought of that one, but I think it's nice that they're able to say like, oh, I can point this out. It's not even disrespectful. It's just sort of like this is an observation I'm making. Like I was giving her a choice, which is a really good parenting strategy, except for I wasn't interested in it. That part too.

36:17Kristin:Well, this has been so, so fun. Thank you so much for coming on and chatting with us. We've loved it.

36:23Dr. Aliza Pressman:Can I just say I hope Kristen doesn't melt?

36:27Deena:I don't know if you can see me. There's a layer of sweat. I don't know that we put this on here on the recording, but I'm recording in my car in California and it is 96 degrees outside. I'm dripping in sweat. So this was my workout. Thank you for my workout and my podcast and reassuring me that I'm a good parent all in 45 minutes.

36:49Dr. Aliza Pressman:And you got a preview of menopause. and perimenopause, which is something to just know is coming up along with that.

36:57Kristin:Kristen, we're going to hold hands together through it, okay?

37:00Deena:Thank you so much for all of your wisdom. Wow, that conversation. I'm the one left here wrapping up this episode. And I'm excited to because I don't know about you, but I just left that conversation feeling so much better about my parenting, the past, everything I have done in the past eight years as a mom, I'm feeling really good about myself. Everything that I have going on right now that as of one hour ago, I was so worried and so stressed about, I now feel pretty good about. And my future feels, I don't know, a little bit lighter. I hope that was as impactful for you as it was for me. And if you were listening and you heard the part about the orchid kids, the highly sensitive kid, the deeply feeling kid, the big feeler, whatever you want to call these kids, there's so many different labels out there.

38:00Deena:And if the orchid kid part was just really resonating, like you're nodding your head along, you have a kid that's highly sensitive, that melts down or screams when everybody else is having a totally fine time, they're really sensitive to either noises or plants going awry or just things that no one else notices, like smells. One of my kids' one is smells. Just bother her and nobody else can smell it. We are here for you. We have a brand new course called the Big Feeler Course. This is for ages one through 10 plus because honestly, it goes all the way through even the teenage years. And it is unlike any other big feeler, highly sensitive resource out there.

38:48Deena:We are not only promising you better behavior today, we are promising that long-term confidence, relationship, resilience, because while our kids are melting down over everything today, I know what you're worried about. You're worried about your kid going into the real world. You're worried about how they are going to survive and hang. And yes, you're also worried about just getting to bedtime because holy shit, does everything have to be a fight? I'm with you. I was one of these kids. I have one of these kids. And this course is going to change your life. You can find the Big Feeler course on our website, biglittlefeelings.com slash course.

39:28Deena:We have a money back guarantee because we believe in this so strongly. there's nothing else like it you deserve peace and you deserve joy and your little big feeler deserves to thrive thanks for hanging with us besties i'm gonna go wring my shirt out i'm not joking it is literally soaking wet and i can't wait to see you guys next week bye besties

40:12Kristin:Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.