When Feeding Breaks You: Deena’s Raw Postpartum Story

0:00The following podcast is a dear media production. Welcome back to another episode of After Bedtime. Oh, I'm so excited for this one because Dina is back. I'm slamming my hand. Dina is back for a special episode about feeding, feeding her newborn. Because if you are here and you have ever fed a newborn in any capacity, you know that feeding is quote unquote supposed to be natural, right? Breast is best, right? We read it everywhere. We see it everywhere. That's what the world tells us. But here's the truth, the pressure, the guilt, the shame, it's crushing. And it's not just you feeling that way or having felt that way.

0:46Studies show guilt and shame around feeding aren't side effects. They're predictors of postpartum anxiety and depression. And when we don't talk about this stuff, three out of four moms who struggle never get help. Today, we're pulling back the curtain. Dina's going to share her raw, unfiltered journey of pumping exactly where she is today, in the messy middle, where she's just trying to keep up and she's trying to figure out, should she keep pushing? Should she switch to formula? What should she do? A position that I many of us have been in before. I'm going to bring in the stats. I'm going to bring in the context.

1:26She's going to bring in her messy middle. She might cry a little bit. It's going to be very raw and real. Honestly, we're going to have the conversation that we all deserve because the real truth is a fed baby and a cared for mom is the best, but sometimes guilt gets the best of us. Welcome to After Bedtime, where the house is finally quiet, but the real noise begins. The thoughts, the questions, the wondering if you're doing any of this right. We're Kristen and Dina, child behavior experts, moms and co-founders of Big Little Feelings. And we're not here to give you more pressure or perfect parenting energy.

2:09Nope. We're here to tell the truth, the unfiltered, beautiful, brutal truth about what it means to raise kids and re-raise ourselves in the process. Because parenting isn't just about sleep schedules and snack hacks. It's about healing. It's about breaking cycles. It's about becoming the kind of adult you want your kids to grow up to be. This is the place where we say the quiet parts out loud. And we're so glad that you're here. Okay, so now we're going to catch up, guys. Oh my gosh. It's so nice to see you guys. Literally, I could just cry just seeing you. I miss you guys. I'm on a hormonal roller coaster in general but it's so good to see you my god where are you right now like where where what is happening in your day in your life where you are right now you look like you're in a closet specifically where well we took Tyler and I took that really literally where am I I'm in a closet a dark closet with no lights on in my uniform you know wearing a robe What is this?

3:13Actually, this is this is a clearance item from the men's Abercrombie section, which I haven't shopped at Abercrombie since literally you and I went to high school together. But first, an ad got sent to me and targeted really about they have an F1 line at Abercrombie that was also on clearance, which like as an avid F1 fan, I'm a little offended that it was on clearance, but also happy because I bought every item. and then I saw this leopard one here and I just got that too okay I'm loving because it looks very cozy is why I'm saying that you look like a little bit of a newborn bubble right now like a dark newborn bubble correct correct Mike Scott BB good I mean we're gonna save how you're doing for the podcast but how are you doing I mean I feel like it's like I knew walking into this it's going to be the ups and downs, you know, like there's some really just like beautiful moments.

4:10I can't believe he's here. I dreamed of this little guy. He's like everything. He's just amazing. And I am so tired. The not sleeping thing, I feel like it really hits me right around now every time, like week four, week five. It's like that adrenaline rush of, oh, my God, he's here has kind of worn off and you're just now on this marathon of hormones and no sleep and like my eyeballs burn, you know, but I'm happy. I'm so happy he's here. Yeah. It's worth it. And it's hard. Yeah. And I feel like, I mean, both of those can be true by the way. I just feel like so, so often we have to be like, and also by the way, like, I love it.

4:48I love him, you know, but it's hard. It's hard. It is hard. Week six was, you know, like week five, week six are just like, whatever is not working is dragging for me right now. All those happy oxytocin chemicals have worn off and you're just like, real life. The meal trains have stopped. And it's like, oh, baby. Oh, baby. Actually, I was curious for both of you. Did you find that going from zero kids to one, one to two, or two to three was the hardest? That's a really good question. Tyler? one to two one to two because you can you can split you can split it up with the first one you know what i mean you can you can you can take one kid solo well you just never have downtime because the first one you could have down exactly two to three is just like welcome to the jungle bitch pretty much no i love fox but like that it's too much three kids is a lot It's a lot.

5:52Am I hearing all of them was hard? All of them were hard. One was not as bad, except you have no idea what you're doing. Yeah, it's more the anxiety. Going to number one, I didn't take our first one out solo until she was a month old. And I took her to the grocery store. And then we walked around the plaza. And I called you 15 times because you put the baby carrier on wrong. It was this very adorable photo that you sent of her baby carrier. and I was like, we're ruining her posture and her hips and you have to change that. I was just afraid of like breaking her at every moment. Yeah, we both were.

6:27To answer your question, I think zero to one was the hardest because of the not knowing and the worry. I was so afraid of like, just like you're saying, I didn't know. I didn't even know sleep training was a thing or that like people said, oh, babies don't sleep. And then I figured they would sleep that for everything. I did not know you need a master class on every single aspect of children in order to understand what you're doing. Because I did not. Oh, this just comes really intuitively. Like, no. Can someone please tell me some things to do? So I found zero to one the hardest. And then after that, I actually found them easier each and every time.

7:07I mean, I'm in it really early. And let me say three, three is a little crazy sometimes. Like you're just trying to get everyone the attention that they need and everyone's talking all the time. There's a lot of noises overlapping and that's a thing for me. Okay. The overlap. I just want to tell you something. Okay. It's three years into three. No one will ever, you will never hear one child again. I'm just going to put that out there. I say this to people all the time. I never hear one child. I only hear a barrage of three voices. And then you try to do like a quick like beep, beep, beep, beep, beep.

7:45Like who needs it the most right then. But there is never a time that you're just hearing one child talk to you and then being able to talk back. 100%. Which is dope as hell when you're autistic. I think that's a joke. And besties, if you are listening and you don't have context, Tyler and Dina were both diagnosed with autism. that comes up in all of our podcast episodes. This is not a joke. We are not riffing on autistic people. We are talking about how Dina and Tyler actually are. Like being autistic, the noise is hard. It's hard. Well, I do live in my earplugs, which really helps because then I can at least like calm my nervous system enough to hear everyone.

8:27So anyways, but caveat, I mean, all that said, my answer is still zero to one, actually. Zero to one was the hardest for me where your whole life flips upside down. You can never just like leave your house again, go to lunch, go to the gym, see a friend. Like the whole transition of lifestyle was just too much for me, zero to one. And now I'm in kid mode. I live in nap world and snack world. And, you know, so this is actually, despite all the hard parts, I'm like zero to one was still the hardest for me. I would like to hear from the besties on that though, because I've seen it for everyone. Everybody's like zero to one.

9:05one to two two to three and then after that the people that are like four plus they're like it doesn't fucking matter i know yeah plus like once you add the fourth baby literally nothing changes and if anything there's more joy do you guys see their studies about how the third baby is like the most stressful but the fourth is the least stressful like that's the least amount of kids you give up at life yeah but like in a good way in a good way all the things that bothered you or you're like all worked up about, you just release it. I'm going to trick Mike into having another baby. That's what Kristen's trying to do.

9:41And I'm like, not going to get me. If you didn't have an anastectomy, I do think we would already be on that path by now. No, no. I do think. 100 % without a doubt. I would convince you to have a fourth. Would you like to just have a fourth together somehow? I mean, we could think outside the box here. We're creative, me and you. We could figure it out. figure this out. Also, guys, I'm going to have to pump on our recording. I'm sorry. Go nuts. Well, that is the topic of today's episode. I hope that we hear those those pumps were in the background just to really get the emotions going, you know, and the besties like when we hear it, it's just an instant transformation back into life as pumping.

10:28that'll be perfect trigger warning this is your trigger warning for the pump sounds

10:37this show is brought to you by better help did you know october 10th is world mental health day and this year we're saying thank you therapists if you're listening to this show you know how valuable therapists can be in our day-to-day lives did you know better help therapists have helped over 5 million people worldwide on their mental health journeys. That's millions of moments, connections, and breakthroughs. And those moments lead to so much positive impact. I literally ended my session with my therapist last week saying, holy cow, thank you for this moment. I had never thought about this one topic in this one particular way, and it brought me so much clarity to move forward with.

11:19And that was just one of many moments I've had with my own therapist. And on this World Mental Health Day, BetterHelp is honoring those connections and the therapists who make them possible. BetterHelp can also show you how easy it is to connect with a licensed therapist online. And if you've been on the fence about talking with a therapist, just try it. Having someone you can talk to about those things that keep you up at night can be so reassuring and so relieving. Did you also know that BetterHelp has over 12 years of experience and matching people to the right therapist. If you've tried finding a therapist before, it can feel like you need a therapist just for finding a therapist.

12:00BetterHelp does the initial matchmaking work for you. A short questionnaire helps identify your needs and preferences and can match you with licensed therapists throughout the U.S. And if you're not happy with your initial match, BetterHelp will match you to a new therapist at any time. This World Mental Health Day, we're celebrating the therapists who've helped millions of people take a step forward. If you're ready to find the right therapist for you, BetterHelp can help you start that journey. Our listeners get 10 % off their first month at betterhelp.com slash feelings. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash feelings.

12:39October is National Women's Small Business Month. And you know what? There are currently 11 million women who own small businesses in the US. Yes. I would like to give a shout out to all the badass business owners, all of my fellow female business owners. This is not easy, but we are doing it and you are incredible. And the thing is, it's not always easy being a business owner. You have to juggle running your business with all the other things in your life. And if you need to hire on top of that, it's a lot. That's why you need ZipRecruiter. ZipRecruiter makes hiring a breeze. So you find the perfect match for your job and fast.

13:19And today you can try it for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash feelings. ZipRecruiter's powerful matching technology starts working immediately to find the best people for your job. You can find out right away how many job seekers in your area are qualified for your role. And with ZipRecruiter's advanced resume database, you can unlock top candidates contact info instantly. No wonder ZipRecruiter is the number one rated hiring site based on G2. Hire the right people for your business with ZipRecruiter. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day.

13:55And right now, you can try for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash feelings. Again, that's ZipRecruiter.com slash feelings. ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire. I'm such a fan of Peloton. I have had a Peloton for, I don't even know, eight, nine years ago. I was one of those that converted during the pandemic and 2020, you know, we all ordered one of those bikes to our house and I have not looked back since. Shout out Cody Rigsby. I know, I know it's so OG, but I cannot go with anybody other than my OG Cody, also Tunde. That is not the point of what I'm trying to say. What I am trying to say is that the Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus, it's built for breakthroughs.

14:38So when you want to have a great workout that takes it to the next level, there are features that help you plan, stay motivated, and achieve peak performance. You can let yourself run, lift, sculpt, and go while Peloton handles the rest. Peloton IQ provides real-time strength coaching. Peloton IQ tracks your progress and suggests weights that challenge you so you can get stronger. The new movement tracking camera allows Peloton IQ to count your reps and to correct your form in real time. Taking the guesswork out of your workout so you can train safer, lift smarter, and make every rep count. And one of the best parts is the variety that comes with the swivel screen.

15:19You can go from running on the Tread Plus to strength training or Pilates off of it with one smooth spin of the swivel screen. It offers endless ways to train for a well-rounded routine. Peloton IQ provides personalized plans and recommendations, including a personal workout roadmap with weekly recommended classes led by instructors who match your mood vibe and personality with personalized plans plus insights and guidance peloton iq helps you unlock new breakthroughs let yourself run lift sculpt push and go explore the new peloton cross-training tread plus at onepeloton.com okay dina we've been texting back and forth as we always do your dina is sitting here and watching her her hands are covering her eyes like borderline not okay.

16:12And feeding is so wild. No matter like, do you remember when you walked into this? And when I walked into mine, and we were so confident because we were just like, listen, if it doesn't work, I'm gonna pivot. It'll be easy. I'm so flexible. And I'm looking at your face. And it's just like, agony. So let's pause there. I want to hear because we've been texting you and me this whole journey. But tell the besties what's been going on, where you are today, and we'll go from there. Okay, to your point, it did feel easy to have that mentality of flexibility at the very, very beginning. So my milk didn't come in for like five or six days, which is very, very different.

17:02That's normal, by the way. That's like a very normal timeline. it takes time. But with my past two kids, it came in way quicker. So at the beginning, I just straight up like didn't have enough to feed him. And I was like, cool, I have no guilt. I have no shame about this. Like he needs to eat. That's exactly what I'm going to do. Pop open some formula, mix it with whatever I was producing and feed the baby like we're all good. So baby was born, baby tried to latch. And in the first four times that that child tried to latch, it was so painful. The kind of latching and like pain that your toes curl and like you sweat in pain.

17:46And so after those four times where I, you know, I have my birth team with me and it's not just me, they're like helping me, you know, get them on there the right way. And I can feel, okay, this baby has lip and tongue ties. I've been through it two other times. I know exactly what it feels like now. I'd rather give birth than have this baby latch. If that's the pain level, that's definitely a sign. Give birth non-medicated, by the way. Yes. Unmedicated. I had watched you with your first and your second. I don't remember which one this was, but I remember watching you and you had straight up just given birth unmedicated.

18:25OK, and barely a peep came out of you. And then when this baby latched onto you, like you're saying, your whole body jumped off of the bed and your toes were curling. And it's like the most pain I've ever seen you be in. So when we say it's painful, it's beyond painful. Beyond painful. And so I was prepared for that part. I walked into it knowing, you know what, I'm going to be flexible. And if this baby can't latch and like he literally couldn't even latch despite the pain, there's so many problems. I'm like, we're not even going to waste our time here because with baby number one, I went through 10 miserable weeks working with like five different experts, lactation consultants, body workers, you name it to try and fix the latch.

19:17And we're doing this position and that position, and it hurts so bad. And by week 10, my mental health had completely crumbled to the ground where I was like a shell of a human. And when that baby cried, I cried. I was like, we can't, what kind of bonding is happening here? I can't even pick you up and like hold you and love you the way I want to. So I was determined on this one, okay, we're going to be flexible. If this baby has ties, we're pivoting. We're going to pump. We're going to pump. And that's what I'm comfortable with. So we quickly shift to that. So now I'm pumping around the clock, right?

19:57Like I'm trying to get the milk to come in and I'm not feeling shame or guilt that I'm not producing enough because, hey, baby's got to eat. So I'm going to give him whatever he needs to eat. So I'm feeling like, you know, pretty good at that point. And then day 10, day 10 postpartum, which this should be illegal, I think, I get hit with mastitis for the first time ever. And holy shit, it's as bad as people say. So I had never had it either. Like, Kristen, bless that somehow we skated by this the first times. Like, okay, so first, for me at least, it started with a clogged duct. And I'm working around the clock just trying to get this thing undone.

20:38I'm doing ice packs. I'm hitting the ibuprofen. I'm like massaging it, hand expressing it, everything that you're supposed to do. We got the sunflower lecithin. I'm taking choline. Like literally it is my full-time job to get this unclogged. And meanwhile, I just, people mean so well, but in the DMs it's rolling in. It's like, just stop pumping. Pumping's the problem. Have your baby latch. Dangle feed while your baby's on your boob. And I'm like, I can't do that. Thank you, though. Like, I wish I could. I saw so many people are like, your husband should suck it out. Can you try that? I have heard about that.

21:13I did talk. I did talk through that with him. And we both, I mean, this is just such a personal thing to me. We're like, I don't think that's for us. Yeah. Like, yeah. Like, I probably need some therapy, to be honest. Like, the fact that I can't do that or don't feel comfortable, like, maybe a sign but i don't think so that's like tyler wanting to be above the shoulder you know what i mean like just keep the mystery you know if you don't want you don't want to turn your hobby into a job we had two very different analogies and they were both right they were both right i love that i mean you turned your passion into a job but that's not a passion i want to do a job because you can't go back sucking a maybe milk out of boob i suppose i mean I don't know.

22:02I guess people would enjoy that. Do you think you would do it? I think a no. I think it's a no. I was fevering and in a lot of pain and this was the last option. And if I was the one saying, I just need you to do this and I am comfortable with it. If modern medicine didn't exist, sure, I would do it. Modern medicine sucks, you're about to hear. So go ahead, Gina. It's a no for me. I'm sorry. I feel like you would have forced me to, but I would have chosen no. One more detail. Actually, now I have some insight, like as we're saying all this, because I'm literally in the messy middle of postpartum.

22:40I haven't even touched my husband. I haven't even kissed that man in weeks. You know, like, sorry, this is how you're going to come back onto my body. Like, can we do some other stuff first? You know, that's how I felt. if you're a man or woman or partner is like trying to get back in there real quick like don't do that I like that don't be that person that's why you're here give some space yeah that's good I like that this would have been mechanical like I almost think I could do it for you and I couldn't like I couldn't and I wouldn't but what I mean is it's like this is not sexual like this is not pleasurable this is a job this is functional yeah but you are not down and that's okay.

23:23Listen, I saw that suggestion way past the point of no return. Okay. So, okay. With mastitis. I don't think we got the answer. Was Mike a yes or a no on that question? He was a no. We were both a no. You were both a no. I'm glad you were aligned. We were a united no. Yeah. I love that for you guys. So to be fair, the dangle method could have worked with my husband, but we didn't try that one. We tried everything else. Okay. Back to what mastitis is, I thought I was dying. It is like having the flu. You get chills and fevers on and off. I'm hot. I'm cold. I'm sweating. It aches in your body. Your boob is killing you.

24:10You get this crazy rash. You're just in so much pain. And it got to the point, I mean, thank God my mom was visiting at that moment. How do you take care of a baby and do anything out because there were two days because oh I got it twice like this is part of the story where it just comes roaring back so there were two different days where I couldn't take care of any of the kids like not the big ones I couldn't take care of the baby I was completely wiped out and just like lifeless for a little bit but anyways so I ended up well this is funny because it's like part of the autism is you take things really, really literally.

24:52So my midwife was like, there is antibiotics. It's the last resort though. So I tried everything for probably like a little way too long where I should have just gone right to antibiotics. I was like, well, I just got to exhaust all the options to make sure that this is the last resort. And then I had a conversation. She's like, oh no, not literally. Like you should take the antibiotics now. And I was like, I would love to. Thank you so much. I would love to. As a best friend, you want to support a journey. You want to validate. You don't want to tell anybody what to do. I'm learning that. I'm still working on that.

25:32And I was like, Dina, take the fucking antibiotics. Get on the antibiotics. The very first sign of something this bad, just get on the antibiotics. Yeah. I think that is the correct answer here. Yes. Okay. Now let's just talk because so we have mastitis. Throughout this though, are you thinking about stopping pumping? Are you thinking about continuing pumping? That's where we're curious on the whole feeding journey of where you're at mentally right now. Well, this is why I'm glad we're just hanging out today because I actually really need to like talk this all through. I'm very, very, very confused and kind of overwhelmed by it, to be honest, where, oh God, okay.

26:21The pumping is so much work. Like I'm not only having to feed the baby, which takes time or bottle feeding him. And it's like, listen, there's a blessing in that because someone else like Mike can sometimes feed the baby too, if he's available, but also like he's working so he's not always available and then after you feed the baby you have to also pump and that's like another 20 to 30 minutes after you do it and set it all up and all that right and then it's like don't even get me started on washing all the stupid pump parts over and over but it is definitely starting to take a toll on me with how disruptive honestly it is in life, like to be feeding, to be pumping constantly.

27:09And then I have the kids talking to me and I'm just becoming like this more irritable version of myself, which sucks to say. And I know part of it is the hormones, of course, of, you know, you're on this roller coaster after you give birth and everything's just hard in general. And then on top of that, I cannot be present with them because every few hours, if the baby's asleep on me, I've got to wake him up or pass him to someone. And a lot of times no one's there to pass him to and get the pumps on. And it's just so disruptive and I can't be present. And I'm really kind of bummed right now on just my quality of parenting, which I can be really hard on myself, I know, but I'm definitely feeling that and then mix in the fear of the never-ending mastitis journey which is once you get it you're more vulnerable to getting it and I have an oversupply which also kind of has me stuck in it because even if I wanted to you know start to wean down or stop getting like longer stretches between pumps or reducing the time also leaves me more vulnerable to mastitis coming back.

28:29And I know in my heart, in my gut, like everything is screaming, just stop. Just stop. Stop pumping. Switch to formula. Mix in whatever you've pumped. It's in your freezer. Just start mixing it and like transition over. And then there's this guilt thing that is just like, not only do I feel guilty, I feel so mad at myself for feeling this, like as if I should just be beyond it and be better than this because I know what the right answer is for me. And I just like can't break that last thread to just get over the hump and like just fully commit. So many people have been exactly where you are at.