How Fable 5's Trouble Affects AI Profitability

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1:11Plus, every product is 100 % vegan, cruelty-free, and made with clean, skin-loving ingredients that work with your skin. And for every product purchased, Thrive Cosmetics donates to help communities thrive. So every time you use your favorite Thrive Cosmetics product, you're helping communities you care about too. Amplify your everyday. Go to thrivecosmetics.com slash shine26 for an exclusive offer of 20 % off your first order. That's Thrive Cosmetics, C-A-U-S-E-M-E-T-I-C-S dot com slash shine26. Welcome to the AI Hustle podcast. Today on the show, we are talking about some drama in the industry, which is Anthropik's Fable 5 model.

1:52We'll break down kind of what what has happened, why, and what I think will be some implications, what we can expect in AI. If you're using AI to grow and scale your business right now, some things you should be aware of. And I'll give you a hilarious story that happened to me in regards to all of this. There's a lot. Before we get into everything going on with this, I wanted to mention that Jamie and I are starting a brand new thing that we have never done before. Every single week, Monday at 9 a.m. Eastern time, we are going to live stream a bonus piece of content in our school community. And that's actually available for free to anyone.

2:26So if you want to get a weekly video for free, you can go catch the live stream. We also have a free tier of our AI Hustle school community, which we've never done before either. So there'll be five free videos you can get access to. If you want to get access to the full library of like 100 videos that we've recorded, how we grow and scale our businesses using AI tools, we give you the insights breakdown. We show you the revenue numbers. This week, Jamie broke down how he built an entire AI email outreach campaign tool. That's$19 a month. You get access to like 100 different videos of us breaking down how to grow and scale your business, but you get five for free right now and you get access to all of the live streams, which we'll be doing every single week at 9 a.m.

3:03So there's a link in the description to the AI Hustle School community. We would love to have you as a member. We have over 300 incredible members. Everyone's sharing what they're building and working on. So it's a great community to be a part of. Okay, let's talk about what's going on with Fable 5 from Anthropic. Jamie, did you try Fable 5? Because it launched and it was everyone was like hyping it up like it was the most incredible thing ever. And then it got banned and it's gone and we don't have access to it anymore. Did you try it in the meantime? I did try it. I did. And I was very excited about it because I also, I think throughout the same time, Claude had promoted that you could get double the token usage through a certain date.

3:42So I was like, let's go. We got, and the Fable was only supposed to be available in the tier I was in, which was Claude Max until June 22nd. So I was like, okay, I got like a solid 10 days. I'm going to use Fable as much as I can in that time. Burn through credits. I set up, I set up, I think, four different automations with co-work using Fable. And I was super excited about it. But then the ban happened. And then now my automations don't run anymore. And I tried to switch the model back to Opus and it won't let me. So I had to like remake them with Opus. Oh, that's horrible. I never thought about that.

4:23I was pretty, that was a huge bummer to me. Yeah. But did you have anything like that happen to you? Okay. I actually had a great experience because I have two Claude Max accounts. Don't judge me, but I've got a bunch of big projects that I'm trying to build out. I also have a brand new baby. And you'd think this is probably the time to scale back on the Claude usage when the baby comes, which I'm usually all for like less work, take time for the baby, except after the baby is awake for like four hours at night and has to be rocked and so i take him and try to rock him to let my wife get some sleep and in the meantime i'm bouncing on a yoga ball and one of my hands is is claude coding so i'm really putting my and you know you get claude code like a job and it works on it for 30 minutes and so anyways i uh i am burning through a lot of tokens when claude fable came out uh fable five came out i actually had both of my accounts in two days i I burnt through all of the tokens on two of my accounts.

5:19And I was like, oh, man, this kind of sucks. Do I have to go buy another account for more usage? Because, I mean, I really have a lot of time on my hands right now. And then it got banned and it got reset. And so now I've been a little bit more careful. And I also, my reset from the reset was like halfway through the week. So anyways, I've now used up all the tokens on the two accounts again. and uh my weekly reset happened and now i'm gonna try to be a little bit more um smart with how i use all my tokens but the one thing i'll say about fable 5 is they gave you 2x the tokens but it also used two times as many tokens as opus 4.8 so like oh yeah so it basically they were just trying to level it out because you're really burning through a lot it could do a lot of cool things i don't know if i was really putting it through if i had known it was going to get banned i would have given it much harder tasks and auditing code bases and fixing big crazy stuff.

6:12I was just like, well, I can just do my projects smarter and faster. And I had some big writing projects where I had to write a lot of stuff. A couple of interesting things that I was seeing though in the headlines about that product in particular is there's an article that said, Anthropik's Claude Fable 5 refuses basic biology questions by design. Anthropik told The Verge that the guardrails are quote, overly conservative to block bioweapon queries, routing routine biology asks to Opus 4.8. So that is pretty crazy. If you have like a biology question, Fable 5, when they had it, wasn't answering, it was shooting them over to Opus 4.58.

6:47And also security researchers said that Fable was blocking even routine code reviews. So they said Fable's keyword triggered guardrails rejected benign security work falling back to cloud Opus 4.8, whenever cybersecurity surfaces in a prompt, which is like actually pretty common. I don't know if you do this, Jamie, but like all the time when I'm, when I'm developing a new project, I'm like, Hey, can you do like a security audit on this thing? Cause inevitably when you vibe code something, it's like some sort of databases, like has a thing that's open and you can see the data and like something weird gets triggered somewhere.

7:21Like, and so anyways, I have it do security audits for me. Um, Opus 4.8 usually, and it will go tell me everything and then go fix it. but I mean technically I could I could go and point it at like an open source project and be like do a security review and then me try to like figure out how to hack it or do something bad and that's what they're kind of worried about here yeah I mean there's there's so many vulnerabilities especially with all these people who are vibe coding uh you know if you have a website you know and you all the code the back end code they can pull your email from that they can pull you know the website builder, what you built it on.

7:57And I feel like beyond my even comprehension, I'm sure there's lots of nefarious things you could do with Fable, which is why apparently they banned it. So I don't know what to think about this because I understand the security concerns and everything, but I don't like that the government necessarily decided that, you know, and I, at this point, I feel like, is it too late anyways, you know, for a lot of this stuff and And the regulation thing, I think, is definitely a worthy discussion. But I don't know. I feel like, I don't know. What are your thoughts on the security side? I read a really interesting thread from David Sachs.

8:37I'm trying to pull it up on Twitter. I'm not sure if I'm seeing it anymore. But basically what he said was that from his understanding, and I don't know who's right about anything, but he said that he talked to some people in the administration because he used to be in charge of the AIsR for America or whatever. but um he said he talked to some people in the administration that basically said okay well actually the reason this whole thing got triggered was because there was a security review from amazon a security paper so this wasn't like i don't know some random person or even the government per se just went out to go ban it because i think we all know the white house and anthropic have like a bad um a bad relationship i saw a post from the pete hegseth like the secretary of defense or whatever and he was like we got rid of anthropic from our bidding system and it's becoming more and more apparent why that was a good idea every month or whatever so obviously after the fable five ban thing came out so obviously there's plenty of beef in the government and so a lot of people want to say like hey it's just like a retaliatory thing but however i will say that um it looks like amazon was actually the reason why it got banned they went and apparently because fable five was mythos which was like the big scary model but they had guardrails on it right so like put guardrails so now everyone can use it um but apparently amazon figured out a way to um hide or like to get around the guardrails to jailbreak the guardrails and they're like hey you should fix this and apparently according to david sachs anthropic said no we don't need to fix that because it's not that big of a deal or something and then um amazon went and briefed like the treasure secretary and was like hey this is really bad for finance for some reason and then the US banned it.

10:15So I agree with you. I don't really like the government getting into any of this stuff. But I will say like, Amazon was the one that started it. So it wasn't just a direct governmental ban. I mean, according to according to this, yeah, the security research paper. Now, could Amazon have a competing product? And this is a good way for them to say that anthropics is dangerous. And then now all of a sudden, we're going to have it if anyone tries to come up with a new AI model, the big Microsoft Google Amazons are going to come up with a security research paper while you're unsafe, send it to the government and get you banned.

10:45Yeah, that's a pretty good strategy too. So I will be curious to see what happens there. But anyways, that's kind of why it originally rolled out. Am I annoyed? Yes, I'm very annoyed. But I mean, at the same time, the security concern is real. And people also don't trust the government either. So I I remember back when, um, open AI, I'm trying to think they, Oh, they had the, they signed the contracts with the government for all the like defense stuff. And then people that basically made people revolt. And that's around the same time that Claude really started to take off and anthropic. So I think it does swing, swing things quite a bit.

11:28And I think you might be onto something there with, um, potentially, I don't know, Amazon or Google wanting to get a piece of, of the developer pie too so i don't know it's very interesting i did want to share a couple of my favorite comments from twitter about this whole saga i was over posting them on um linkedin and i just thought some of them were funny uh pavel aspar said if dario had invented the iphone he would have spent the whole keynote talking about how it might blow up in your pocket i thought that was pretty funny um there was someone that uh screenshotted if you search for the word fable on Google.

12:04It says a short fictitious story designed to teach a moral lesson. So maybe Anthropic was teaching us all, you know, it was very short lived. And maybe they were just trying to teach us all a moral lesson. Who knows? There was someone else that said, I can't believe Anthropic comparing their product to nuclear weapons 800 times backfired on them. I am shocked. That's kind of true. Like they had this huge publicity stunt, this big marketing campaign about how Mythos was like, you know, going to hack the whole world and it was too dangerous. and then they're shocked that the government told them they couldn't put it out but don't worry we have a solution uh vivo plt said don't worry guys i got this and then he has a screenshot of him on claude saying build fable five make no mistakes so evidently that's the solution he's he's and okay then my my final thing i tried to catch like a little bit of a uh organic bump and i made a post on LinkedIn about this.

12:55I used the same image I used for my last LinkedIn post. I just had Chad Chibiti regenerate it from a slightly different angle. You know, just seeing if my image was what did so well for it. And my post said, I got two Claude Max subscriptions completely free. They say you can't time the market. I disagree. The Claude market is a different beast. Anyways, then I basically told the story of what I was saying to you, how I maxed out my things, except in this post, it's saying how like this was super intentional. I'm just like a strategic genius for knowing to do that. I was, you know, trying to trigger people.

13:26I said, this was not luck. Luck is for people who don't model their token burn against macro risks. Anyways, so it's kind of funny. And that post got me 11 ,000 impressions. So we made, you know, got some impressions on LinkedIn from that. It was kind of funny. Most people knew this was a joke. When I did the last one about buying two MacBook Airs, most people did not know that was a joke and were pretty mad about, mad at me for doing that. So So anyways, pretty, pretty funny. But apparently not only if you searched anything with biology, but also if you said the term cybersecurity, the fallback was to Opus as well.

14:06Yet it still got banned. So I don't know. I mean, I don't know. We'll see. But if you guys are Claude users or are making things with Claude, again, if you want to check out the AI Hustle school community, you're going to want to be a part of it. we talk about our vibe coding projects every week jaden has launched two apps in the app store recently so he breaks down all that stuff too so we'd love to have you be a part of our community and then also if you would love we would love your review or rating wherever you're listening those help us out help us reach more people as well so that would be wonderful if you could do that thanks for listening guys and we'll see you next time you're listening to a podcast right now Driving, working out, walking the dog.

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