DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market

26:39You add up all these things. And again, I think this is an agenda that does not benefit Silicon Valley at all. Well, and if you wanna understand why people are coming to your fundraiser tonight, if you put all this together, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that if your venture capital is an entrepreneur and you wanna see M &A and you wanna see entrepreneurship and you want to see your company thrive, you want to see your employees get rich and have options, Biden is basically handing the election to Trump. It's like he's doing everything he can to basically alienate Silicon Valley. And capitalism.

27:11And you're exactly right. And innovation, I wouldn't even say it's Silicon Valley. It's like if you're going to go and build things that are at the bleeding edge, you know, the government used to be the most critical supporter of that, right? If you think about space or defense, these were areas, the internet itself, the government was the partner of private industry to make sure that there was no regulation and that like really, really, exactly. Looking innovation could happen. That should be their role. And this speaks to this D -SAL versus acceleration movement that we see here in Silicon Valley.

27:44And this is what we see in Texas, Florida, UAE, Riyadh, DOWA. There are places in the world, Singapore, where people are accelerating innovation. And this is what humans want, not just entrepreneurs, not just venture capital, all of us want to see an acceleration of innovation. Everybody wants to see prosperity. And if you put yourself up as the D cell candidate, we're not going to allow M &A, we're going to screw with options, we're going to do all the stuff, people just not going to vote for you. And people want crypto legal. So take the memo. I mean, the fact that the Democrats can't feel the candidate that aligns with what humanity wants is absolutely mind -boggling.

28:24This is why I think Biden's getting hot swap this month. You heard it here first. He's got, I know, Gavin is going to be running for president. It's going to be Trump and Gavin. They're hot swapping Biden after this first debate. Biden is going to get demolished by Trump at the debate. It's going to be elder abuse. He's getting wiped out and hot swap. You heard it here first. Well, there's a lot of conspiracy theorists online who agree with you. A lot of I think you've got to follow up. Speculation that he's going to get, switch a root. Hot swap. But look, I mean, I think you make the correct point, which is, you know, I didn't really think about it this way, but you're right, Biden is the diesel candidate.

29:00And nobody wants that. Also, Trump has shown a learning curve where he recently has been saying positive things about crypto. Yep. And he's always, I think, been more pro economic growth. He was a real estate developer from the private sector. He actually understands the economy. So there's no question that he would be more pro innovation, much more pro innovation than Biden. And to your point about this is one of the reasons why people are coming to the fundraiser, I had someone from the campaign that's something very interesting to me. She said that we've never seen this many new donors at an event before.

29:34So we're turning out the new donors for this reason. Yes. And you know, we're not going to be intimidated by people calling us names, you know, It's like look in any normal election people in an industry Would vote for the candidate who they see as most aligned Yes with what is good for them? If they're families their industry. If you made a list let's just make the list here right now Make the list of things Trump is in support of right and Republican's support of right now They're gonna be pro M &A They're gonna be pro crypto they're gonna be pro less taxes. They're going to be pro law and order.

30:10You know what? That's where I align. Those are the things I want. So if you just list the issues for me, despite how I might feel about Trump and some of the things he's done, he checks off all my boxes. He checks off all my boxes. And I think that's what's happening here. And you know, people were scared to come out and say, this person checks off all my boxes. The Democrats need to realize they're out of sync with America. They're out of sync with powerful people in America, especially the donor base. They're the DSEL candidate party now. And they just have to flip this thinking. They're going to get demolished.

30:42It is going to be a landslide at this point. People want jobs and prosperity. From your lips to God's ears. To the hot swap. I mean, I don't believe a lot more to say. Yeah, nothing big right. Take the win. I mean, and crypto is such an obvious win. And you know what, Trump's anti -EV right now. He's been whaling on EVs. I guarantee you that's the next thing. I bet you next week he comes out next week within the next two weeks. Here's my prediction. Trump says, you know what? EV is not so bad. Remember he's been saying EVs, nobody wants these things. We're subsidizing. I bet you next week or maybe in 30 days, I'm making a prediction here.

31:20You bank the prediction in 30 days. Trump comes out magically in support of EVs. Well, I just think that his point is a pill shouldn't be forced to buy EVs. Right. I mean, I don't think he's going to tone it down. I don't think he's against them per se. I think he's against people being forced. Look, I think that what the new administration, hopefully, or what Trump should propose is effectively a modus of a vendai with big tech, where the point is that if you stop censoring our people, if you stop censoring conservatives, if you restore the civil liberties of the average American to say what they want online, to basically bank online, to stop essentially de -platforming and censoring people, then we will let you innovate, we'll let you do M &A, we'll let you get back to business.

32:03That basically is the basis for a peace agreement between big tech and the Republican party. Yeah. And by the way, I'd say in the next 30 to 60 days, you're going to see 10 incredibly high -profile people come out and support a Trump if Biden isn't swapped out. And when I say high profile, I have the inside line in this extremely high profile people, not just Doug Leoni, not just David Saxon, Tommat, by Opatia. It is going to be about 10 high profile people who are much higher profile, respectfully, then Shamaaf and Saxon and Doug Leoni. So just wait for it, folks. You cannot be a desalarist in, you know, this world.

32:39Let's keep moving. Warren Kitty, aka Keith Gill, just to It's closed a nine -figure position in GameStop. Yes, we're back to where this podcast started. We're talking about GameStop and Staubles. As crazy as it is. And E -Trade is considering suspending his account. This is gonna take a little bit of background. I apologize here. I don't need to apologize. The deep platforming him. Here we go again. Quick background. You remember the first, basically viral moment for this podcast, this AI moment, I remember I was in Tahu skiing, was the GameStop saga back in 2021. 1000s of retail investors following this individual key guild Were posting in this subreddit called Wall Street bats if you're not familiar and they created a massive short squeeze And they sent the stunt flying Robin Hood halted the trading remember flag came on that one all went crazy But we covered that all and then Keith Gill went silent for the past three years on Twitter and reddit He said nothing then on May 12th He posted this meme on X which has been viewed 28 million times.

33:43Now, if you don't know this meme, this is the lean forward meme when you've got a game controller in your hand. It is a way to signal like, hey, we're getting to the boss level. It's gonna get exciting. Here's your GameStop chart, folks. You see that first peak? That's when we reported on it back in 2021. And here we go again. It just had the slow ride down for three years and big popped up again. So, Game Stock, Stock tripled at the posting of that meat. Why is this important? Well, he has a huge position. He increased it from 200 ,000 shares, basically to 5 million, had 120 ,000 call options.

34:19This is a mobile comment on all this in a moment. If he exercised all these calls, Gil Kudon and additional 12 million shares, here's Gary Gensler, who was on CNBC Wednesday, trying to, like, calm the markets down and we're trying to get control of this craziness. Here's the clip. I say, you look, I want to put up a cryptogram. And it's of a chair leaning up, which we know from video game playing means, come on, this is the ninth inning. Get ready. And we know that I'm a person who happens to light the stock of GameStop. This is the single. Come on, get ready. Is this something hypothetically that is that the SEC should worry about?

35:00Look, again, it's not so hypothetical, public is you're describing things that are in the public domain and in the public is you know interested in. So but generally speaking you have to make sure that you don't mislead the public and that you don't in any way do things in the markets that may be manipulative or misleading and so that's the key thing in our capital more. No, the key thing is if you can cure it with disclosure, this is brand -dice. You know if they disclose that this is something that they have a call to action, then you can't go after them. Disclosure is one really key part of our capital markets.

35:43When you buy the stock of a company, you expect that they give you full and fair disclosure. That's by the way not what you're getting right now in this crypto field. So I just cautionary tail there, that disclosure, But disclosure doesn't necessarily protect a bad actor if they're manipulating a market. Shama, you've been... You've had a lot of comments on the markets and specifically this one over the years. What do you think is posting this meme, stock manipulation, or disclosure? No, it's... He's posting a meme. Okay, thank you. He put a picture on the internet. Okay. I mean, again, this is like the problem that we have, which is that he disclosed this position in a different way.

36:32Now, we don't know whether that disclosure is accurate because I think it was just a screenshot of like some statement inside of a Reddit thread, right? And then that got posted many times elsewhere. Is this accurate? I don't know because he has no obligation as an individual to do any of this stuff because he's not running a hedge fund and he's not running other people's money. Now, if he was acting in concert with other people, you could say, hey, hold on a second, if you're repping not just your money, but other people's money and you did this, then there's probably a disclosure obligation there.

37:07But at the end of the day, this is a guy that acted and basically created hype. And right now, the SEC does not have a framework to deal with that because the rules that existed didn't understand social media and whatnot. And he's also not a regulated entity. He's just an individual. Now, if it turns out that he was selling while he was posting this stuff and trying to manipulate the market in some way, obviously they could find issue with that. But just for him being a credible influencer and creating momentum for an underlying position, that in and of itself is not illegal. Sacks. I think we have to go to judge sacks here.

37:58Judge sacks. What is your verdict? Our meme stock manipulation, judge sacks. No, I don't see any manipulation there. Electro -Mont Studies is posting a meme. What you said, not guilty. What I see in that clip is Jim Kramer trying to stir up an SEC investigation of Keith Gill. For what? I mean, what exactly is he done here? This is kind of the Wall Street Journal as well. If you look at the Wall Street Journal today, there's an entire article basically with the headline is what Keith Gill is doing illegal. And I think you can view this in a different lens, which is here is an individual that is totally outside of the establishment that however he's done it has gotten a hold of hundreds of millions of dollars.

38:39There may be even now billions if the stock keeps going. And I think that that for the establishment that controls those pipes, very disconcerting. Right. If he was one of those apex predators on Wall Street, if he was one of those major hedge funds that donates a lot of money to the political elite, in other words, if he was a well -connected political player, I doubt anyone would be asking these questions. Fred, bro, you got thoughts on this? Market manipulation or meme, stonk, fun, good times, you're buying games, stock, you're buying AMC, like, you buyer beware, you're in on the joke. What are your thoughts?

39:20Nick, can you pull up the image? I'm going to talk about this stupidity of buying the stock of this company. This is a valuation. This is a company. And then I think we can talk about whether that's even relevant, which I think is It's not. GameStop finished the year. 2023 fiscal year with sales of 5 .3 billion. Down from 5 .9 billion the year before. So sales declined by 12 % in the year. They have $5 billion in revenue selling games. Adjusted EBITDA for the year with $65 million. And they have about 1 .2 billion in cash. Currently, as of today, the market cap is about 13 .5 billion dollars. So that makes it about a 12 .5 billion dollar enterprise value.

40:1012 .5 billion divided by 65 million of EBITDA means that this stock is currently trading at about 192 times EBITDA. A business that is profitable and you can say that the profits are stable and predictable and is likely not going to grow very much will typically trade for 7 to 12 times EBITDA. And the stock is trading at 192 times EBITDA and the revenue is declining 12 % a year. So I'll just point out, like, I don't think that there's anything about the actual performance of the underlying business and the security that you are buying or selling when you are making a decision about whether or not to buy or sell the security.

40:46And I think that that's the real question. It does that even matter. Clearly it doesn't. Let people have fun. Let them go to Vegas. Let them play in the real estate table. They know what they're getting into. The disclosures are all there. All the SEC filings are there. All the financials of this business are there. What you're actually buying is publicly viewable. You can look at it. You can make an investment decision as an individual investor and trader. And you wanna blow your money trying to see when the social trends are gonna shift one way or another. Let it be your decision. I think this is well said.

41:18If you're buying NFTs, if you're buying stonks like this, if you're playing poker in a, if you're playing bomb plots, look it up folks if you don't know what bomb plots are. And you're going crazy playing bomb pots for eight hours like we did the other week. You're there to gamble. If you are playing bomb pots, this is the bomb pots of the stock market. Have fun. Go crazy. If you're buying NFTs, if you're buying crypto and the leaves token, you know what you're getting into. There's no law. There's no law that defines why you should or should not buy a security with respect to the diligence you have individually done to determine whether the underlying business is worth the price you're paying.

41:58The law says that the businesses that are listing their securities for public trading have an obligation to make disclosures on their financials and any other material events to the public. And they do that through the SEC filing process. That's all out there. And then what you as an individual do with it is up to you. Enough with the nanny state. Go ahead, Sax. So when's the right time to put a short on this company? Anyway, tonight there's only three advice. This stock is up 40 % today. And then there's these reports that came out yesterday on a bunch of very big hedge funds that put very big short positions yesterday on this doc and it's up 40 % today Here we go.

42:33We're gonna get margin calls. So this is where you see the same thing that happened last time where what's that guy's name the the capital

42:42Give We got I'm gonna go now on the wrong side of the city. You're gonna get blocked and You're going to get blocked in. Don't get blocked in a saramucci. That's what you don't want to do. Because you could lose it all in a saramucci or something. It's basically a game where the reserves are, they bit up the stock to levels that realistically it's not worth that much. Disconnected points are big. It basically creates a short squeeze. So the stock flies up. Yeah. then the hedge funds know it's overvalued so they can put new shorts on yeah and then they do the next short and and there'll do something that's even more dangerous which is they can get synthetically short yeah so they'll they'll add leverage to this using all kinds of esoteric derivatives that other banks on Wall Street will happily sell them and then when those are disclosed then the redditors can just pump it even more which causes massive margin calls so I think the thing that freeberg you're saying though, this is this existential thing that comes back.

43:44It's happened in NFTs. It's happened in the dot com bubble. It happened in SPACs. It's happened in crypto. Are we supposed to protect people? And then the question is, who is the we? And are you supposed to say, if you're an adult and you can read, then read the disclosures and you're on your own? That's what the SEC says. And that's what the rule of law has been. And so this is going to be an interesting test because instead of an organization, it's going to be a person, in this case, Keith Gill, who will be the face of what happens to this stock because if a bunch of people, all of a sudden plow into this thing and then it goes to five, it'll be really interesting to see the reaction, hey, you should have saved us.

44:24How could this happen? You know, he dumped this on all of us. And the answer is no, he did not. Where was the government to save our day? Where was the government to protect consumers? That's not put in any state. That's the next cycle of this story. The next cycle of the story is no that government and you showed how the government protected everybody which was you showed the revenue and the profits and the margins which is publicly available. And you did it in two minutes. I mean, anybody, anybody can look at your analysis and see you didn't even use a sophisticated model. You use probably the calculator app on your fricking Mac to figure out that it was a 192 times.

44:58You can't do that. You literally get an apple. No, no, no, I'm sure he used the calculator app. So you can actually I have the Casio. The only thing is you can figure out that there's no logical justification for this company using one Google search and the calculator app on your Mac. Yeah. It's on you. I think you should. Should we make all sports betting legal and all online casinos legal? So if you follow this to its natural conclusion, let people do what they want. Why are all of the other gambling industry so tightly regulated? I think there's a big difference. I think it's a big difference.

45:30Well, because we need a stock market. We need the ability for companies to go public. It just so happens that you can get this weird effect where some stocks can become meme stocks. But that doesn't mean you want to design the entire system of securities laws around one or two meme stocks. The fact of the matter is that investors are sufficiently protected by robust disclosure requirements that apparently GameStop has followed. load, all that information is out there. You basically dismantled the company in like two minutes. So anyone watching this show has all the information they need not to buy this stock at 190 times earnings, okay, if they choose to fall that information.

46:16Yeah. The other thing that you're saying, which is really important is you have to remember what the capital markets and the stock market is there for. It's not meant for this. This is a small little cul -de -sac, but the overwhelming majority of the capital markets and the equity markets is to allocate excess capital to good ideas. That's what is usually happening. There's a bunch of us that will put a bunch of our money into things because we think it's the right thing to do. And that is the overwhelming majority of what is happening in the stock market every day. And David's right, every now and then one of these things randomly comes up and every period of time there'll be a few parts of the market that go crazy.

46:54But the reality is that's not what the overwhelming majority of the actions and that's not why the security sells to them. Have you guys seen this guy? His name is Tim Nackie on Instagram. So what this guy did, this guy's incredible. So this guy went out and he basically bet 10 cents an online blackjack because he's legally allowed to do it where he lives. I think he's in Australia or something. Oh yeah. That's 10 cents for every follower he has on Instagram. So over the last couple of months, he's been wrecked. Yeah, he's been wrecking and racking up the bets. And he ended up doing these $100 ,000 plus bets because he got over a million followers.

47:26He ran this thing up to over a million bucks and he quit, but it's now he's formed a blackjack syndicate so everyone wants to kind of pile in and bet with him. I think that there is this really interesting phenomenon of like social betting. Everyone wants to be in a group together. He's got hundreds of thousands of people that have put money in. This is so great. And then he goes and does this online gambling. Nick, pull the video up. I just say, yeah, watch how this guy does. And he's so entertaining. He's awesome. Oh, man, sack. This could be deadly for sacks. Sacks didn't know about this. So this was Dacia.

47:52So we've gone up like Jack and bidding 10 cents every Instagram follower I've got. There are 940 ,000 of Weapons with us now so a 94 thousand dollar bit coming right up all right ladies and gentlemen We have a 94 thousand Let's go on the line There was a king 10 thousand of you weapons with us 90 on the butt come on okay each of the side bits This bloke definitely gloves up both hands on the golf course never has a Plata's Studan To my life I'm not healthy for Gross Seven versus six Uh, that might be a double down there might be doing backs down. We're doubling down. We do. We take three. That's a double down.

48:30That's a double down. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely double down. Goddamn you. Go change from here. Of course, we're counting. Oh my god. We will take the door. And I'm going to get rid of these pudding loads. Get it. Get it. Get it. Get it.

48:50Get it.

48:56I will see you tomorrow you smug son of a Oh my god, it's so great. This guy is so good. Sax, do you know about this? That's some serious degeneracy. It looks so fun though. Look at that. Oh, it's in the gut. Let's go. Let's go. One day. There's only one a day. Oh my god. And then she'll apply. And then when the word count goes up, it's every day he bets more. And then you're falling. and he ran this thing up to a million a profit. Oh, so good. I haven't seen Sacks this awake during the pod. You don't get the 10 cents. He keeps it from so. He started this just by betting his own money and he would put 10 cents down every day for how many followers he had.

49:32Okay. He started betting more and more of his own money and now he's got this whole thing of account that he can put on his. Is it still all of his money that he's betting? So then as of a few weeks ago, or like a two weeks ago, he stopped betting his own money, he took the million off the table, he called it a day and he set up a syndicate. And now people send their own money and he always betting the syndicate's money. I love that. That's everyone's here today. And he doesn't want to hit a day and he keeps racking this thing up. It's just, you know, what happens when he loses? Is there a day where he's lost a lot of money?

49:57Oh, dude, you gotta watch it. Man, that's not a good, good video. It's so funny. I want to see what happens when he loses. Like a big help. Can we hit the sky at the all in summation? He plays online blackjack, right? So there's always like a fake dealer. And he has all this hilarious commentary. I'm gonna get sat back to this text and the set up an account in a VPM right now. I'll be honest with you, this may get me back on Instagram. This is so good, right? Oh. We should give this guy out to the summit. This guy's got to come to the summit and do a live hand with Mr. B. Bigs, big shout out. Is he on TikTok or no, just this?

50:28I think he only does Insta. Yeah, Tim Neck. I haven't seen Saks listen to Freeberg on this podcast more than he just did. That was incredible. You got Saks's attention. Saks did you know you could play live online Blackjack from your phone? Did you know this? Did not, did not know that. This is important information for all of us. Biggest guy coming up. There is 514 ,000 of you in here now and a 51 ,400 dollar bit coming up. Alright, day 60. A monumental day we can hit the 50k button here. We will do 50 ,000 dollars on the button. Let's go. Let's go. $800 on the 21 plus 3. $600 on the perfect peers.

51:06This is a fact. Look at the biggest bit I have put on a table in my life. We're trying to itch ourselves into gambling immortality! 14 plays three. No, it's a disgusting pull on day 60 with all the marbles on the line We will stand and look for 10 tin embust 10 tin embust 10 tin embust come on 10 10 10 Rocks to be a hero Oh, yes Yes, they say stick that in your pipe Oh Holy s**t! Put it off! Oh my god! We've broken the push streak with the adventurers of Tintin and you better believe that means I'll see you tomorrow and I'll be betting even more! This guy's got great, Adderson. Can he do one live on the show next week?

51:55Oh, D55. Oh, here we go. Here we go. This is 3. Instagram follower I've got outrageously. There is an extra 21 ,000 of you in here today. So 37 ,600 dollar bit going on for the 376 ,000 of you legends in here now. Coming right up. Okay day 55 brings about a big god damn I don't like this deal. I have $36 ,000 on the button 1000 on the 21th And $600 on the perfect pairs 37 .6k total bets are closed We've just had a goddamn deal change. We've been duped here. I'm cool. I'm cool I'm cool I like the dealer plays a 12v king Oh my god before I hit the hit button And I will say this having talk to the morning rumble this morning last time I spoke to the media about this journey I broke a six day winnetry get day and I lost so if it happens again today This one's on Roger Farley.

52:48We need to see eight or nine go low. No Come on that dealer chain was so dirty good. I guess you just can't win them all But we've been like this deal and I will see you tomorrow When we'll be betting even more that dealer change was so dirty You saw the dealer change the last minute he came up and they changed the dealer They done that to me before I've been with you and they've done that nice They do that every time with you. You start running it up. They send in the dealer to ice you I think there's a particular dealer they've got you know, they do it's like in the bullpen the blank cooler Yeah, the one the blank cooler.

53:24I don't want to say anything, but it's the cooler We need this guy next week on the pod to do the live bet and then we each give him five K How about that you guys in I've had them trought out the cooler when I was playing Crap's once, I was so mad. And I was on such a heater. And what happens is, you guys have seen me play Crap's where it's like, it's all rhythm, right? So it's like, I get the dice in a certain way. You know, I do that. And then they bring in this guy. And he was like a clutch. It's like Daniel Day Lewis in my left foot. All of a sudden, he's everything is all in a row. I'm gonna be over for dice, fall off the table.

54:00I got so out of rhythm. I cracked up the first. It was so I was so I want this guy in the pod next week. We're age putting five times in we got 20 K from all in let's do it That would be so much. Oh my god. We should get him to play a special all -in hand and let him run up our capital on the summit Let's take profits from the summit and you're a live hand. We could put like a million bucks each on it We double up and then we're done with the pop. We don't have to do a summit next year really good idea Let's do it. Let's let it roll All right, God, this is so much action for us. I don't know if we can continue, but there's more stories to come.

54:35And just buyer beware. I mean, if you're betting on this stuff, I mean, what do we have to tell you? If you're betting on game stop, we don't have to tell you anything. You're an adult. You're an adult to the right. Go to your own job. Well, here's something really interesting. What are on your seatbelt? Drive for pointy to boy pants. But don't drink and drive. Don't use drugs. I mean, it's like, all of a sudden, we need to govern how you're in a functioning adult. By the way, if you swim in Cape Cod alone in the deep water and the kelp, you might get hit by a great white shark. Or do whatever you want.

55:05And please just take responsibility, pretty self. Because it's not average. Absolutely. And irresponsible for my children, not you. Well, I mean, also, I just want to ask one question here. Is there anything with the short selling that could be more disclosure on that, Chimoff, just if the SEC was going to do something? I hear that bubble up once in a while. Should short sellers be more disclosed? I really think that's a very good idea. I do think that there are some short sellers who are doing it because they have to hedge a position that they have. But then there are other short sellers who are doing it speculatively.

55:33And there are synthetic instruments that banks will sell you to go massively super short. That's how you can get a situation where 140 % of the stock is sold short, which doesn't make sense. If there's only 100 shares of a company, how could it be that 140 shares are so short? It's because you can have these synthetic derivatives. It's quite synthetic for the audience because I don't think people know this concept. So there are ways where if you have a formal trading relationship with Wall Street and you need to be of a certain size and they go through a diligence process they give you so you know I have one called an ISDA and it's essentially an account and a framework that you negotiate with a bank that allows you to call them and say hey give me a b or c and other times they'll call you and say hey I have this really interesting way to play xyz and And one of the things that you can do with them is you can say listen, I want to go super super long or super super short of theme or a company and they'll create a contract between you and them that will allow you to get that kind of exposure.

56:38Now you're not supposed to do that on a regular basis nor are you supposed to lever this up. This is actually what blew up a different hedge fund called archegos. I remember we covered it. And in that, I guess what happened was the gentleman was calling many banks and doing all these things. And one bank didn't know what the other bank was doing. So all of a sudden, there was this massive synthetic leverage that he was getting on. I think it was newscorp stock. And then they found out that it was on well, then he owed a bunch of money. He couldn't pay it. The whole thing shut down. The stock market went crazy.

57:12So it doesn't need to be that disclosure. But there isn't a rule that says that. And every time somebody tries to introduce it, the broker dealers basically lobby and kill it. So in a way, it's almost like a parallel universe where bets are occurring on outcomes in the stock market that are not tied to the stocks in the stock market. Well, it is tied in the sense that ultimately it all needs to feed back to an actual physical share. And so this is where all this price behavior gets further amplified. I think the point is that these forms of expressing risk can really amplify what would otherwise happen.

57:44So when freeberg's example most people would sit there get the financials Some would maybe say historically this thing looks like a short or I wouldn't even buy it at all, right? But other people might say well if I listen to the chairman and I think about the future maybe I go long That's a that's a fine thing you can enter the stock market do that But all this other stuff amplifies all these things to a degree that we're not really used to And let's be honest the people who are betting I'll use the word betting here. The people who are betting on these things are not looking to get a 7 % return or beat the average.

58:18I mean, they're looking to double their money in 48 hours. They know what they're getting in for. They're just walking up to the roulette table and putting 10k on black or red and then clapping and seeing five reds in a row and saying, oh, it's gotta be black next. I mean, they're filling out how many of these. They don't say that when they lose them. No, of course not. Yeah, no personal ownership here. Well, here's an interesting thing that's sort of related. a little bit of jurisdiction shopping or placing of companies and products continues. And Texas is very hot in this regard. BlackRock and Citadel are backing a new stock exchange take on the New York Stock Exchange and the NASDAQ do happily.

58:55So according to the Wall Street Journal, the exchange would be based in Texas and called the Texas Stock Exchange or the TXSE. They've raised 120 million so far. That seems like a low number. And the general pitch here is the New York Stock Exchange and NASDAQ have become expensive and they've been increasing their compliance costs. NASDAQ has a new board of diversity target that went into effect at the start of this year, all the DEI stuff. And so this exchange is pitching itself as a CEO friendly and the anti -woke exchange. So here's the plan timeline file and SEC registration box later this year start facilitating trades next year.

59:30Post the first new listing in 2026. Interesting, I guess that's Citadel and BlackRocker in this group because they could bring a lot of business. Obviously, and you know some of this other stuff that's been going on with Texas. Texas is now Tesla's corporate headquarters. They moved to for Palo Alto and California, Texas in 2021. Your thoughts here? Chimoff on moving? Love it. Absolutely. Why do you love it so much, Chimoff? Tell them. Competition? I do think that it's hard right now for companies to get access to capital. I think more diverse and more flexible ways where smart investors can allocate their money into the ideas that they want are better.

1:00:13I think that the doobly hasn't created enough competition, so the NASDAQ and New York In terms of filing requirements, listing requirements in terms of board composition, they've fallen for a bunch of things that don't actually point to the economic rationale or value in a company. And so I think if you have a third player, there's a chance that more competition will create more rational behavior, which will flow into the companies themselves. So I'm a huge fan of this. I think that the stock exchanges right now are to brittle and there's and that large reason is because there's only two of them.

1:00:57Freebarking thoughts for you about more options? Well, I think part of this is actually there's been these rules imposed by NASDAQ and New York Stock Exchange that have tried to enforce upon the listed companies rules and regulations that are not tied to securities laws, including some of these aspects of diversity of your board. And I know that there have been a lot of public company, board members, and CEOs that have quietly tried to push back on these rules, that they're imposing social systems upon what is effectively a regulated exchange. And so there's certainly like an interest in pushing for a competitive marketplace for exchanges.

1:01:44There was a survey done recently that showed I got to find some of this data, but it showed the cost of going public on NASDAQ, AMX, within New York Stock Exchange was about $7 .4 million. Cost of going public through an over -the -counter bulletin board listing service was about $2 million. And then there's these additional kind of rules that are being imposed if you want to be listed on the big boards. So clearly, there's interest and it's great to see a competitive market emerge. By the way, there have been other attempts. There's that long -term Stock Exchange. You guys remember that a couple a couple of years ago that was meant to kind of accept of a long -term holdings.

1:02:20There was two other equity security exchanges, efforts made in the last couple of years that didn't take off. So this isn't super novel in terms of like seeing a new challenger exchange step up, but I think more competition's always better. All right, in other news, Apple and OpenAI have reportedly struck an iPhone deal. According to Bloomberg, Apple is going to announce a major partnership with OpenAI at WWDC next week. chat GPT will be integrated into iOS, which means Apple is outsourcing its AI chat bound, at least at the start. I guess you could argue it benefits both sides because OpenAI gets access to over a billion phone users and Apple gets a native integration of a top tier language model.

1:03:00Terms are not clear, but most people think this is going to be a short to midterm deal with Apple building out its own AI chat bound in the future, but it's just not ready for prime time right now also plans to make Siri AI powered and bring AI features to the Apple ecosystem. You may have heard that Apple is going to try to let Siri dive deeper into apps, i .e. if you were ordering your door dash or Uber Eats or an Uber or a lift or whatever, it might actually be able to execute those things inside of an app. Interesting line from the article, Apple executives were concerned about reputational damage from a rogue chatbot.

1:03:34Some people within Apple have a philosophical version to having a chatbot at all very interesting. So thoughts on this sacks, just getting you back in the loop here. Well, we kind of predicted that something like this could or should happen. We said that the big win for Apple in AI would be to make Siri actually work based on NLLM, because Siri just, you know, it's understanding of language, which historically has not been great. And that's really limited the usefulness of it. Imagine if Siri worked with the conversational abilities of chat GPT 40. If it had that level of semantic understanding, if it could talk to you, the way that 40 can talk to you, that would make Siri really powerful.

1:04:20And for me, series is a feature I've turned off because it's so annoying. But - Oh, sucks, right? Never works. If you give it the power of the best open AI model and then the speed of running it natively on the iPhone. I don't know what they're going to do about that, but presumably there are things they can do to speed it up. And then you give it access to the internal APIs you're using to control apps. That'd be really powerful. It's not a series. It could be an agent that you can just tell it to do things, and not just ask the weather and the time and set alarms. Well, what's really interesting, I think, about this deal, Chimoth is Apple is having a hard time getting people to upgrade their phones, right?

1:05:02And people have lost faith in the stock. Now, you say, hey, we're going to put a language model on here. You can make it a local language model and have it be privacy protected. So that means you need more memory on the phone. You're going to need another chip on the phone. It's going to, there's a distinct reason to upgrade now. If you had a language model on your phone and Syria was like this super -serie that actually got stuff done, And I would upgrade my phone immediately. And right now I skip two or three generations where your thoughts on this as a way to maybe reinvigorate the iPhone franchise to my Dubai or not.

1:05:35No. The problem is that we don't know what the right form factor for a super scaled consumer AI app looks like. So we've all, again, I'm not trying to be a web blanket. It's just that when you look at what's built and built so far, I think most of the things we've seen are the Friendster and My Spaces of this class of app. We haven't seen the Facebooks and the Instagrams yet. And the reason is because we haven't experimented and pushed the boundaries of the morgue factor. So for example, in the first phases of social networking, the idea that you would collect information about all your friends and then and create something called a newsfeed was totally shocking.

1:06:22And I remember when we first released that people got really upset and then it just became this de facto, why would they upset about it, tell me? Well, it's this idea that you collected this information and then you presented it about all of your friends was disconcerting in the shot as a feature. Now, if you don't have a newsfeed of some kind in your app, for many apps, it's DOA, right? So the same problem exists today. All we've done today is we've replicated an existing use case with a slightly better feature here or there. Nobody has gone out and said on a blank canvas, let me completely reimagine how consumers want value with these things to enable it.

1:07:03And until that happens, we're just wasting time. So the idea that Apple with this $1 ,000 device is all of a sudden going to figure out that this is why you're going to upgrade. I think it's pretty speculative and I think they're going to be disappointed. I think people have realized that four generations ago was more than enough. And on top of this, the stuff that you value inside the iPhone is not what you're going to need for AI. So actually spending a trillion billion dollars on the fourth camera lens is not going to be what solves this problem. And so you're more likely to have a very simple earbud that is, you know, very inconspicuous and discreetly in your inner ear well, speaking information to you, then you are, and with a companion $500 phone, then I think you will be with a $1500.

1:07:54I, you're in the new form factor. I, I'm going to take the other side of the cap. I think that because you have this data on your phone, all your iMessages, all your documents, all your photos, videos, music collection, there's a unique set of data on them. on that phone to make your personal LLM, that's gonna do extraordinary things for you, because it's gonna watch you and all your behavior on that phone. And man, if I can have a personal LLM that's been watching me order very specific sushi rolls or where I sent my ubers, what type of ubers I like? What music I play? I feel like that LLM for me.

1:08:24You don't need a 50, my point is, you don't need a $1 ,500 device to do that. So if you spend $500, I'm talking about the data set. So cool. Don't you want the data set? Is that so cool? Uber has the data. Door dash has the data. No, I'm missing my point. the data of me clicking on the screen. That pad is not apples to collect. It's not there. I think they'll collect it, put it in there. You would have to incredibly change the SDK. The idea then that Apple can take a tax on that is outrageous. I think the whole app economy would blow up if Apple tried to do that. I think it's the opposite. I think the app economy would thrive.

1:08:56You'd be able to have this a great thing where I could tell it, order the same thing I ordered on Dora. I ain't sure if Apple to try to change the terms of service and see what happens. Okay, freeberg, your thoughts on this. Any thoughts? No. Okay, well let's get to this. It's time for science corner. Temperatures in the Atlantic Ocean are alarmingly high Freeberg a couple weeks ago. We saw this crazy chart on the acts about the Atlantic Ocean temperatures pre -Hurricane Katrina right about now and take us through this because it's very disconcerting There's not much to talk about except highlight this image which shows Again, we talked about this a few months ago hot ocean temperatures drive hurricane and tropical storm activity because as the wind, the air above the ocean starts to move, the energy from the ocean gets pulled out, you know, like things cool down, the water cools down.

1:09:47But that energy actually goes back into pushing the wind to move faster and faster, and that's how tropical storm cyclones and hurricanes are formed is warm ocean temperatures. And there's been this kind of persistent warming since last year in the Atlantic, in this particular region where all the hurricanes form. And normally the hurricane season starts kind of call it August to October. Right now we are seeing temperatures that are so far beyond what we've seen anytime historically. This image that you're looking at here actually compares the ocean temperatures right now in the Atlantic to where we were at the same time period in 2005, which was a record hurricane you're obviously with hurricanes and trena, right?

1:10:32Yeah. And so the National Hurricane Center, a lot of the climatologists are forecasting that over the next couple of months we could see and should expect to see probabilistically much larger, stronger, bigger, more frequent hurricanes than we've ever seen historically. So we'll see if it plays out just a very small tidbit of news to share, thought it'd be worth highlighting, not getting a lot of mainstream media press attention, but you know, certainly to just confirm a couple of things for me. Because we live in a time where people are questioning science and Scientists and we have institutions we don't trust whether it's Related agencies in Washington or scientists and all these papers being written and everything we're finding out and nobody trusts anybody And we're sort of resetting trust.

1:11:15I want to just ask you as somebody I trust as a scientist Number one global warming temperatures increasing putting aside, you know, what we do about it Temperatures in the ocean it is undeniable or increasing at a rate that you would describe as Concerning am I correct we have not seen in the modern era Temperatures in the ocean like we're seeing now. That's a fact Right, I'm not I'm not gonna do this whole big Prognosis on everything all in one because I think that's where people feel like there's rooms for this Redding things. I'm trying to so we do this yeah, we can be very specific about things Here's an example.

1:11:50So this is the sea surface temperature going back to 1981. Okay. And as you can see at this point in the year, and you know, the temperature oscillates because of the way the earth tilts towards the sun. And so at this point in the year, we are seeing right now sea surface temperatures that are beyond anything we've seen historically and it is continuing to climb. So if this does not taper off or level off, we will see record sea surface temperatures there's in the August to October timeframe, which will almost certainly push massive hurricane events out of the Atlantic, and they will find their way towards the continent and the US next year.

1:12:27So this is super clarifying. It should not be controversial to anybody. We have temperature readings in the ocean and just data. It's simply data. It's just simply data. Right, so putting aside what political part of you on and what you think about gas and oil. I will tell you there's a lot of theory. One of the theories, so there's theories about El Nino, there's theories about climate change contributing to this. There's also a theory about sulfur dioxide that has now been banned in shipping and cargo vessels that Go across the oceans last year they banned sulfur dioxide use in the the fuel that that's coming out of these and sulfur Dioxide actually reflect sunlight so as it goes up into the air into the atmosphere coming out of these ships It actually blocks and reflects light.

1:13:07So that would make the oceans cooler And so a lot of folks have said that over the last couple of decades we've actually dampened the temperature and the warming that's happened on Earth because of all the sulfur dioxide we've been putting up into the atmosphere, but because sulfur dioxide causes acid rain, environmentalists have been pushing for years to ban sulfur dioxide. The problem is with banning sulfur dioxide you may have this other side effect which is now more rapid increased warming of the surface and of the oceans. So these are complex systems and we should be delicate with them. If you were to give us a prescription here, Freeberg, what's like a basic prescription, are we just experimenting in a way that is not advisable with this ecosystem, and we should just not run the experiment?

1:13:57I think that might be like a non -political, non -charge rate of say it. This experiment is a little bit too crazy to run on the one planet Earth we have, yeah? which experiment? The experiment of doing things that increased global warming, which would be living? Well, yeah, I mean, not burning fossil fuels. Fun and experiment. People are just acting in their own economic best interests. Yes. And if that economic best interests increases temperature so much, I think you have a free bird that it will compromise the oceans and damage them to a point that would be extremely concerning is I guess what I'm getting at.

1:14:33There is a reduction in biodiversity. That's the other way we can see that like using data. But to Chimoff's point, humans have prioritized the progression of individuals forward. China had a billion people that came out of poverty in 30 years. Yeah. And they came out of poverty because of the industrialization of the production of consumable goods that that population gets to consume. They get access to more calories, they get access to more foods, they get to have cars, they get to have houses. as all of that making cement, making concrete, all of those things require industrial systems. And those industrial systems have a cost that cost is the dollar economic cost, which we're kind of rationalizing with great productivity.

1:15:13Then there's this whole cost that's externalized. Which is kind of, we understand that, right? So that's the tension is like if you're wealthy, if you're a wealthy nation, if you're the Western Europe or the United States, you get to stand up and say stop carbon. But if you're the rest of the world, you're like, I wanna have a home. I wanna have a car. same ever have stuff that America went through or you're I want to I want to progress as a as a person I want to progress as a society and that's the tension that makes us a very difficult problem to resolve which is how to more the world get to progress while you were being cognizant of what I'm trying to get at freeberg by a short mystic so let me just say this oh yeah that's what I'm getting at are you optimistic or you pessimistic tell us I I believe strongly that there is a strong relationship between the output of atmospheric carbon and the deleterious effects we see in ecosystems.

1:16:05Okay. That is something I feel like is true from data. I am not, however, as pessimistic that the world is going to end in the next decade or two, because I see improvements in productivity, meaning how many units we get out, forever unit in, or how many units we get out for every unit of carbon that's emitted, and those productivity, meaning better technology systems, are rapidly changing how we make things and how people are accessing goods and services. I think that that's why I am like, because I'm a techno optimist, I'm optimistic about where things are headed. It is also why I get very angry and upset about any efforts or attempts to slow down the adoption of technology, because these things will pull people forward and make that happen faster without all the dilatary side effects that we've unfortunately had to do So in the absence of technology, so Tramath, I'll pull you into here.

1:16:55So based on what Freeberg is saying here, yes, these things are occurring, but the technology in the advances we're seeing in but one example, solar, and then some people might bring up nuclear and other ones, we just had Phil Deutsche, my conference this week, give a great talk on this. Solar is just getting so cheap. Batteries are getting so cheap, putting batteries in your home, putting solar in, you know, and then putting data centers next to nuclear things. This is all adding up to we can solve this problem. And so you two feel optimistic about this? Yeah, totally. I think that climate change stole when it was an emotional and philosophical rallying cry, largely of the left.

1:17:32When instead it became something about resilience and domestic manufacturing, both sides came together. and I think we're at a point now where the US's energy independence plus the amount of reliance on non -carbon -based fuels will drive a sea change in the United States. I think it'll be copied in Western Europe and it's also going to be enough of a low price point where it'll get embraced in the developing world. So it's an incredible example of if you want to take an idea and a bunch of solutions and want to die on the hill of messaging and platitudes, it'll make no progress. But if instead you're willing to sort of be less extreme about it and actually just frame it in economic value ad, all of a sudden everybody embraces it and it just becomes obvious.

1:18:31So I think that we are going to do wonders over the next 20 and 30 and 40 years all over the world to push back on the general state of warming. But I think it will have happened because the economic incentives aligned, not because of an philosophical or emotional framing of the issue. All right, everybody. This has been a very productive episode of the number one podcast in the world, the all -in podcast and good luck tonight, gentlemen, with your fundraiser. I wish you great luck. David Sacks and Chimoff Polly Hoppity. Even if it's not my preferred candidate, that's totally fine. We can all differ and you can have a great, great event tonight.

1:19:13Good luck. I have one thing. Okay, good, Chimoff. I have one more birthday in my family today, making us all look bad. This is one of the most incredible people in my life. Here is Maddick, funny, charming, intelligent. It is my bestie, David Friedberg's birthday today. Oh, it is. We love you, David. We love you, David. We had a nice little birthday cake at the liquidity summit this week for him. I had a cake made. Thank you for showing me birthday and here we go. And it's also a K 47 Allen Keating's birthday today. Today's one of the same. I love Alan Keating. Shut up. Keating is one of my 45 and one is 47.

1:19:54What? Here we go. It's karma. Do you know the significance of that? Of course. He's going to win I'm not going to be on number elections. And there we go. Here we go. I think it's a sign. It's a sign. Listen, I wish. Good luck to you all tonight. I hope that it goes off well for you for your gentlemen. And listen, I would love to have Trump on the pod. Would love to have Biden on the pod. Like all things, we just want to have a great conversation here. We keep it respectful. Sometimes it gets a little chippy, but we love each other. And we love you, the audience, for participating in this. Don't fall for the mainstream media's nonsense in trying to divide and conquer.

1:20:29We got important tests to do and problems to solve in the world and the way we do that is to great conversations Hopefully we set a tone an example for everybody else. I've just had to do that We still love each other and we sometimes some elbows get flown and it's all good Chimoff sacks good luck tonight freeberg happy boys and We'll see you all next time on the number one podcast in the world You all in pockets tell your friends about

1:20:59We'll let your winners ride. Rainman David Sack I'm going on the beach And it said we open source it to the fans and they've just gone crazy with it. I'm the queen of kinwa I'm going on the beach What? What? What? Your winner's ride Besties are gone I'm going through the beach That's my dog can't get a wish to drive away We're gonna die Oh man, I'm the cashier. We meet the athletes. We should all just get a room and just have one big hug or two because they're all just like this like sexual tension that we just need to release that out. What your feet, what your feet. Your feet. What's good for you?

1:21:43We need to get my feet already. I'm doing all these.

1:21:53I'm doing all these. All right, listen, thanks to our friends at H Sleep, Sacks and I are both investors and we both love the Pod4 Ultra. They're an incredible company that we both backed and they are supporting the all in summit. And if you haven't used the Pod4 Ultra or the blah, blah, blah, H Sleep, if you haven't used H Sleep, it's awesome. Go to H Sleep .com slash all in and use the code all in. You get some sort of a discount there. Sacks you love the company, use the product. It's a great product and if you sweat like a pig at night like Jake how it's particularly good for you, it'll keep you cool.

1:22:27Absolutely. We'll keep you cool. And if you're up all night because you have so much anxiety about you playing you playing you playing you playing like Zach and you can't sleep and you're doom scrolling and tweeting all night, maybe this will help you go to bed finally, which I'm watching those twigges staying up to late, Zach's get some rest here and use a H sleep to do it and thanks for friends over there. H sleep dot com slash all that code all that you get like free honey or something like that off the price, really good deal, and we love the company. Okay, last year at the All in Summit, we had a wonderful talk by Jenny Just, and they have a very cool program called PowerPoker.

1:22:59They're holding a 2024 summer bootcap in tournament for women only. So for the ladies out there, if you want to learn how to play poker, just like the best of these, and Jenny Just, you can join this four week training class, get unlimited playing time, you play in a tournament. I'm going to come and play in one of the sessions. But here's the great part. We donated a ticket because we think it's worth encouraging women to join the poker community. And so there's a $7 ,500 all in some 2024 ticket at stake. There's only 80 spots. Go ahead and join at hokerpower .com slash summer dash bootcamp poker power .com slash summer dash bootcamp.

1:23:34It's going to fill up quick. A number of the women who work at my venture from launch have joined and they're looking forward to learning poker again 80 spots. I think they charge a hundred bucks just to make sure you show up. And there's an all in some a ticket there for you. You can actually see the video of this podcast on YouTube, youtube .com slash at all in which search all in podcasts and hit the alert bell. And you'll get updates when we post and we're going to do a party in Vegas. My understanding when we hit a million subscribers and look for that as well, you can follow us on xx .com slash the all in pod.

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1:24:49You can listen to my other podcasts this week and start ups to search for them on YouTube or your favorite podcast player. We are hiring a researcher apply to be a researcher doing primary research and working with me and producer Nick working in data and science and being able to do great research, finance, etc. All in podcast .co slash research. It's a full time job working with us the best ease. And really excited about my investment in Athena. Go to Athena. Wow. See you in a wow .com and get yourself a bit of a discount from your boy, J .K. Al. Athena Wow .com. We'll see you all next time on the All in podcast.