E169: Elon sues OpenAI, Apple's decline, TikTok ban, Bitcoin $100K?, Science corner: Microplastics

26:44And you know what? There are four profits. Apple and meta, which are producing open source software. So if they're producing apples pretty competent and meta is super competent in this respect. They're able to do open source, but Sam is claiming or open AI is claiming it's too dangerous to show us the open source code I call bullsh** on that Their code is not too dangerous for us to sit that's complete utter bullsh** So you you think that there is a motivation for profit basically what you're saying is essentially that this was highly motivated by profit First thing versus like even like like some of the emails the emails Try to paint a picture of of very industrious people on both sides who are trying to solve a very hard problem and dealing with a conundrum that's really around capital, right?

27:33Yeah, we need to do all this training. It's gonna be so expensive. But I think what you're saying, which is a deviation from that is actually, come on guys, these are all very smart people and those folks on opportunity to make a ton of money and they took it. I mean, that seems like what happened here to me. I mean, it's Hockham's race or kind of situation. And I think they, if you look at it, I think they probably regretted making this a nonprofit and then tried to figure out a way to reverse it. That's actually what I think is going on here. And I do think there is part of it, you're right, that they needed servers and they need a capacity.

28:05But they could have done that without giving the employees tons of equity, without selling billions of dollars, keeping it open source, and then telling Microsoft, hey, if you want access to this open source or whatever, and they could give very, you're making a very, very good point. And the reason is that if it was open source, Microsoft could have just taken it and done its own training and just paid for it. Yeah. Or make a donation to the foundation. This is interesting because it's a very good point to help. Because OpenAI dropped a few of the emails that they had with Elon. Obviously, those are cherry -picked to help their case the most.

28:44What we don't know is what are the other emails show? Like what were their alternatives to this particular structure? Could they have raised the necessary funds in a way that was more consistent with the original mission of the company? Could they have remained open source, for example? Also, are there any emails where employees talk about the potential benefit to them of going private, going for profit, right? Those emails have already been leaked. There was this thing where in the OpenAI, emails that Relique, they talked about being able to swap this phantom equity in OpenAI into either YC equity and then Elon said, oh, maybe SpaceX too, but I'll have to figure that out.

29:24Well, then also Microsoft coming in and buying 49%, and then it's close, this is the other piece that I would wanna see and discovery as well. And again, I don't have any problem with any of the people that I love Sam, all of them, I think it's great. I think all the people that are great, I think what they've done for humanity is great. I just think they should have kept this thing open source, which was the mission. But then they closed source at Chimoff and then give 49 % of it all the weights, all the source code to Microsoft. So that to me was like a really, like you want to talk about taking this nonprofits IP and then some amount of that bag gets given to the employees for billions of dollars and then Microsoft gets 49 % of all that nonprofits effort to then go commercialize and Microsoft Microsoft has added what, $500 billion in market caps since this whole thing has been announced.

30:13So now all that profit has been aggregated into Microsoft's stock. And I think this is where you got to understand why Elon feels swindled is because not only are we going from non -profit to for -profit and open source to close source, he was specifically concerned about all the benefits of AI brewing to one powerful big tech company. Now at that time he thought it was Google. Now it's Microsoft. There's not really that much of a difference. He never wanted all the benefits of AI in the hands of one really powerful tech company, right? And Microsoft is the most it's now the what the biggest company in the world by market cap So this is like the opposite of what he intended they gifted a trillion dollars to Microsoft probably there's an easy solution If they are people of good faith and they're doing this for the right reasons open source it Just go back and open source it.

31:04Jason, but to your earlier point, that may solve the lawsuit and Elon may drop the lawsuit, but it's opened a can of worms with respect to tax and structuring. That's much bigger than just opening it up. Yeah, I don't think it's our nonprofit industry. It's a tax problem for every new company. It's every other entrepreneur that studies this model and tries to replicate it for their own personal gain, even if that wasn't intentional here. Yeah. So there's a whole set of issues that we've really cracked the egg here. We got to figure out how to unscramble. There's the IRS issues. Then there's what's morally right.

31:37And then there's Elon's beef. And if it is a for -profit company and Elon put in 50 million when it was a seed round, what would he own, Saks? What would his ownership in this for profit big? Oh my God. I mean, probably 98%. Okay. And so. Yeah. We know the total size of that round. He put in the first 40 million. Do we know what other people put in, it was most of the money, right? Yeah, it was most of the money. So, I mean, if you put, let's just put a crazy valuation on it, 500 million. Okay, he owns whatever, 10 dollars. No, that's not that. At that point, it would, AI was not what it is today.

32:11So, you would have raised, like, you would have raised 150 on 50 pre. Okay. That's the way that if you're a cat -backed, intensive deal in a space that wasn't thought to yield big outcomes, that's unfortunate. Elon would have to have the company at least. At least. So give him 20 % of the company is $20 billion. It's even half of what you're saying, Zach, right? We talked about on the show and that whole fracas with these nonprofit directors went down. As we said, go back and a restructural thing to make it what it always should have been, which is a just a clean for profit entity. Give Elon his equity, give Sam his equity because it never made sense to send him the equity.

32:50He has no equity, but he's got a venture firm. It's all so convoluted. It's a weird form of compensation in which they're giving him corporate opportunities in effect as like a type of compensation when really he should have compensation in the corporation and then the corporation should own all of its opportunities. That's okay. That's a really interesting thing you just said. So basically, yeah, it's like he famously has no equity, but then he has this retained optionality to monetize the ecosystem. system. So even though he's not monetizing the thing, he gets them monetize everything around.

33:23And it seems like the board or at least the new board's okay with that because he is being under compensated with respect to the main thing. So then he gets the side things. But that's not really the way it should work either. You know, Bill Gates said to us famously when we were at when I was at Facebook, the value of an ecosystem is when the economic value generated by the ecosystem exceeds that of the platform. Now in this case, you'd actually rather have 50 basis points of the ecosystem, then 5 % of OpenAI if that's true, because if this thing could be so revolutionary, you're talking $10 ,20, $30 trillion.

33:57What a mess. Oh, yeah, yeah. Sam should just be given like a huge option, Grant, and OpenAI, but then OpenAI should own its own venture fund. Yeah. And the SEC is looking into all this stuff. You know, they look into a lot of things and fairness, but they're looking into it. What a mess. And we'll keep track of it. The other thing that's crazy, I don't know if you guys know this, but Nick, just as we close here, the most insane part of OpenAI's LP investment agreement, which is on their website. You can just search for OpenAI LP agreement. Is this part? The partnership exists to advance OpenAI Inc's mission of ensuring that safe, artificial and general intentions is deployed and benefits all of humanity.

34:35The general part is duty to this mission and principles, tools, advance in opening icing, charty, adiada, take precedent over the obligation to generate a profit. The partnership may never make a profit and the general partners under no obligation do so the general partners free to reinvest any and all of the operating entities cashflow into research and development activities and or related expenses without any obligation to the limited partners. And so they basically told everybody, Vinode and employees or whatever, we can just basically make right -per -equity out and we can do whatever we want with the profits and you're probably going to lose your money.

35:07So the structure is weird. Do you guys think that when the investors came in, especially in this latest round, the 86 billion dollar round, do you think they underwrote the legal risk inherent in the structure? Or they just sort of hand waved over it and said, no, typically what happens in these deals is. You hire somebody like KPMG or Deloiter Ernst & Young to do like the full financial diligence packet, right? And that typically tends to be how a lot of late -stage organizations document that they've done and manage their fiduciary responsibilities on behalf of their limited partners. So what happens is you will do a deal, you'll sign a term sheet, you'll turn it over to Deloitte, you'll turn it over to KPMG and say please go and run this down.

35:56And then what they do is they will furnish a report that says yes this meets all the customary expectations. I suspect that if these folks were doing a decent job of running late stage money, they probably sent it to those folks. And those folks probably produced something that said this looks fine. Now, if you read Buffett's letter this year, he has a really great commentary on Deloitte and GPMG and these sorts of letters, which is not not exactly the most supportive. Is the best way to say it, think you can find that mentioned. In his case, it's deloitte and touche, but typically sacs, that's what they do.

36:34They go to a KPMG or a deloitte or a nursing young and say, and by the way, 99 % of the time, they're, I mean, they do really good work, but it's a standard structure. And they just wanna make sure that nothing nefarious is a muck. In this case, I doubt anything was a muck anyways. I doubt though that they looked at the structure and then also elevated the litigation risk of this getting unwound. I just don't see that that diligence report and I've seen enough of them, typically has that section in it. The other thing that's completely hypocritical here is they said when they hit AGI and they're going to be like a sentient, artificial intelligent going on here, Friedberg, that they would wrap up shop and they're going to no longer be a non -profit, et cetera.

37:21But they're claiming they haven't hit that, But they closed the software. So it should be open source if they haven't hit AGI and You don't think they've hit General intelligence, right? Freeberg for anything close to it. Maybe you could educate the audience on what that is and that claim that they have to No, I shut up before profit. Yeah, they haven't but I think the We keep repeating this concept of the models should be open source versus closed source making AI for the benefit of humanity can be interpreted in a lot of ways. There may have been semantic total conversation at some point with Elon or others about we're going to make the models open source.

38:03But there was a reason that that change was made along the way, which was to attract dollars. And those dollars need to have some return of capital available to them because they're private investor dollars. And so I don't think that that was necessarily and correct me if I'm I don't think that's in the mission that the open AI software models will be open source Making AI for the benefit of humanity could probably be interpreting a lot of different ways and We'll see but no, I don't think that anyone has this achieved this Holy grail of general intelligence. Yeah, I Think one of the one of the more interesting and kind of wacky things about open AI is that their mission is explicitly to create AGI, which most people would associate with some sort of sci -fi dystopian outcome.

38:59And I think this is like raised the fear factor around AI because they're explicitly trying to create the sentience that's going to replace humanity. Now, I think they define AGI in a different way. They say it's something that can replace 80 % of the jobs, but I think we all kind of know what it really is. So I just wonder. I don't know. I think that that's like, that assumes a steady state in the world. So if you end up with a system and the system has all the capabilities of a bunch of really highly qualified knowledge workers, and I can sit in front of a computer terminal, and I can say, let's design a mission to Mars.

39:41A mission to Mars could be a 20 -year engineering project with hundreds of people involved to design the buildings, to design the flight path, to figure out the fuel needs, to figure out how you would then be able to terraform Mars. And what if one person could interact with a computer and design a plan to go and inhabit Mars? All of the technical detailed docs could be produced. All of the engineering specifications could be generated. All of the operating plans, all of the dates, the amount of labor needed, the amount of production needed, the amount of capital needed. What would otherwise take NASA or some international or well -funded private company many, many decades to do, a piece of software could do in a very short order?

40:20I think that's like a really, like for me, poignant example of the potential of having these tools broadly available, that the potential of humanity starts to become much broader. We could say, I wanna develop a city underneath the ocean because I wanna explore more of the earth. I think humans need to go solve cancer, figure out the biologic drugs and the combination of biologic drugs that would be needed to solve cancer based on this patient's genotype. The extensibility of highly knowledgeable or what other people might call general intelligence type tooling is extraordinary that one individual starts to have an entire cohort of knowledge workers available at their disposal to do things that we can't even imagine today.

41:04So I don't think that it is nefarious. It's nefarious because we assume a steady state of the world today that nothing changes Therefore a piece of software replaces all of us But the potential of humanity starts to stretch into a new era That we're not really comfortable with because we don't really know know it or understand it yet I'm not saying it's nefarious to want to develop AI Because I agree with you about all the extraordinary potential of it. I'm saying there's something a little bit cultish and weird about explicitly devoting yourself to AGI, which I think in common parlance means sky net.

41:38Yeah, I mean, when you talk about things, I think that maybe that parlance is what needs to be addressed, which is AGI effectively enables equivalence to a human knowledge worker. And that, you know, that can kind of unleash a new kind of set of opportunities. So you think that's what it is. My definition for AGI is smarter than the smartest human being, whoever. Yeah, I was talking to somebody this week who's in a position who said the definition of AGI is very fuzzy, that there isn't a clear definition. And therefore, it allows every side to kind of anchor on their interpretation of what that term means and therefore kind of justifies their position.

42:14So I don't really feel great about just saying, are we at AGI? What is it? We don't have a clear sense of what it means. I do think if you look at some of the work that was done by Anthropic and published in the Claw 3 model this week, did any of you guys see the demos that were done of the output of that model? There was a guy who wrote a thesis in quantum physics on a very esoteric complicated problem set And he asked clog three to solve this problem set and it came up with his thesis It was really like extraordinary and this is something he's like no one in the world knows it stuff And he's like I can't believe this model like came up with my thesis And that's the sort of thing that very few people on earth even read or understand and the clog three model was able to kind of recreate the basis, the buildup, and then the output of his thesis was somebody writing a screenplay and then giving it the first two acts and say, guess the third act.

43:02And it's like, oh yeah, this is a third act. Here's what happens. Like it's pretty impressive. These are like completely stupid. Yeah, completely stupid. Like deep down when these guys say they're going to create AGI, what do you think they really mean in their heart of hearts? Oh, they mean the terminate. Yeah, they mean the sentient gone. You guys are, you guys are propagating some bad shit. You guys shouldn't be so. I think that's what they think. Remember when Larry Page said, you want to set it. Remember when Larry Page said, Elon, don't be speciest. Yeah. I think there's like, I think there's a meaningful number of people in the tech community who deliberately want to give rise to the superintelligence.

43:40There's another one of you of superintelligence where superintelligence means that the software is now more intelligent than all humans. And as a result, the software may have its own motivations to figure out how to supersede humans on earth. Now, the Larry Page statement, which I don't know firsthand, I read the same article you did, is one that a group of people might say, evolution is evolution. You know, a lot of people there would say that. That's right. And I know you want to take on this point of view that like, you know, we need to maintain human... Human supremacy, but... My favorite test is...

44:17There's the Turing test, which you can't tell if it's a human or if it's a robot. But Mustafa came up with the modern Turing test, which is an AI model is given $100 ,000 and has to obtain one million. Go. Kind of interesting. The other interesting one was Gary Marcus. He said the IKEA test, the flat pack furniture test. An AI views the parts and instructions on an IKEA flat pack product that controls a robot to assemble the furniture correctly. Oh, look, what's up, sunny? It's now time to do just a quick little congratulations to our dear friend, Sundee Pmondra. We call him Sunny, that's his nickname.

44:56And he's one of our poker buddies. He keeps building great companies. And in this case, Sundee Pmondra is the first person to collect all four besties. We all invested in this company, definitive. And definitive was working in AI, but we got some great news this week. And we thought we would give him his flowers. Sonny, you want to tell us what happened this week with our investment in your company, definitive intelligence at definitive .io, I believe you sure do. Yeah, well, you know, with your guy's support and we've been growing our company and we saw a really great opportunity to work together with GROC and we've been working with them for a couple of months and all the hype that you've seen has been built on the collaborations that we've done, building the cloud offering, the API offerings and so we've decided to merge with them and we're super excited and all the besties are now not only shareholders in definitive previously but now shareholders in GROC.

45:50This is the first investment I think where we're all on the cap table, right? So we're all rooting in the same direction. What's happening in the developer side? How's the momentum going? Well, the momentum's incredible. We have now 16 ,000 plus developers in our cell -served playground as well over like a thousand apps that people have developed using the API and all kinds of new functionality. You know, the API allows people to get a higher rate of throughput on tokens and low latency. So there's all kinds of new applications from voice to real time translation of web pages. You know, we're collecting them on our discord.

46:26We have you know, 3 ,000 people in the discord as well. It is a real community that's come together building around Groc and what I will say is, you know, So sort of the same jump that developers saw when we went from dial up internet to broadband, they're seeing that now and from using like traditional APIs for LLMs to using, you know, the ones that we offer. You guys support the latest and profit models that they just launched that seem pretty kick ass. No, we don't have those yet, but we're in just, you know, we're having discussions with everyone out there. We want to support their models.

46:57Right now what we've done given all the demand is we've kind of limited it to Lama 270B and mixed roll and we actually have a bunch of other models that we make available in private mode for folks. We're pretty excited. But if there's anyone out there that wants to have us, you know, give us a call and we'll get you going on our systems. Well, Sunny, congrats to you. You're an incredible entrepreneur and it's always fun to kind of be on the journey with you. This is my fourth business that I've done with Sunny Madra. That's amazing. Extreme labs. Yeah, then there was a company in between no no no there was a one before you have to understand sunny and I met because sunny went to school where I grew up he went to the University of Ottawa I grew up there and we met through mutual friend and his first company was called Spongefish.

47:43Which I backed I think in 2006 maybe I mean I have no money I may have written a $10 ,000 $10 ,000 maybe less. Okay, yeah, I mean whatever I'm not that much I like it's to go. And it's our fourth business. Sonny's a very full rabbit's foot. Your rabbit's foot. He is. He's a lot of bucks. That's prefers a prepared. Well, I mean, I've been in two of Sundeeb's companies. And I thank him for that. And then extreme labs actually to thank you again. You sponsored a lot of my events 10 years ago and I was coming up. So I appreciate that. So it's just great to see a nice guy win as opposed to the three of people who I work with on this podcast.

48:24Keep winning. So that's good. Now finally a good guy wins as opposed to the four of us. Well, I appreciate all your guys support. It means a lot to us. You guys getting the developers and keep putting it out there and keep us honest as well. So if we're not doing something right, let us know. Really appreciate you guys all. Sax, you want to say something motivational to Sonny here. I know you always have a great motivational word for your friends, something you say that just gives people that thrill of being in the game. Go ahead, Sax. You always have something. Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna ship 20 million into your safe note.

48:56I know you close it, but we're gonna pry it open and Get some get some allocation Safe I know a guy with a podcast who can got 800 ,000 followers. Maybe I can slip in a quick five -hundi. Is there possible? What do you think Cindy? Let us know right now. No, we did a really big announcement of this outies this week So that price might be up. So let us ship something into that safe note. So we actually have some real skin in the game David text me. All right, we'll do. Well, no, but seriously, hey, send it. Wait a second. If he's going to get a second, let me check. Once in 500 by that, he means $500.

49:31So we'll let you know, I got a gift card for you from Starbucks. I'll give card for you in the team. I think I got like a hundred tickets. I've read that that Starbucks gift card. You're selling for 20 cents in the dollar and then ship it in. I'm going to say, maybe I can 100 X no, seriously, 500 K from from your boy, Jay Cal. Alright, everybody. Thanks to Sunny for jumping on. Congratulations on the Merck. Thanks guys. Alright, issue two, issue two. Apple is battling two major iOS developers and regulators are signing with the devs. You may know about the Apple versus Epic game saga. We've talked about it here.

50:06Epic games planning to create a custom app store on iOS because Europe's DMA, the digital markets act has said that Apple now has to allow third party the app stores in the EU. So Epic created a developer account based in Sweden and Apple actually approved the account two weeks ago. That on Wednesday, Apple flipped, terminated Epic's EU developer account. And Apple said one of the reasons they terminated the account was because Epic's CEO publicly criticized their DMA. Compliance plan. Additionally, on Monday, Apple was fine, two billion by the EU's, have to trust regulators and was forced to remove its anti -steering rules from music apps like Spotify.

50:45Basically Apple has been restricting music apps from informing users about pricing and discounts. And the European Commission considered this anti -capative since Apple runs Apple music. And they want Spotify to pay 30 % Danielaq friend of the pod. You know, basically did a whole video on this about how they can't charge 30 % more. Yadda Yada. Saks you've spoken about Apple's monopoly before. Your thoughts on what's happening in the EU. and then we'll get into Apple's wider problems. I mean, did you just say that Apple booted Epic from their App Store because they didn't like what Epic said about them?

51:24I mean, they're violating Epic's free speech because they don't like what Epic is saying. I mean, this is crazy heavy handed by Apple. Apple heavy handed with developers? Yeah. Have they lost their minds? I mean, this is right out of power corrupts an absolute power, crops, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, whatever dispute you have with Epic, you don't boot them out of your app store because you don't like their criticism of you. I mean, this is basically proving exactly what everyone's been saying about Apple. Totally. Which is, they're too powerful and heavy -handed. And Apple's coming along and saying, let me confirm it for you guys by acting tyrannically against Epic.

52:04I mean, talk about it backfire. This seems insane to me. Yeah, it's super nuts. Shemaatsa, any thoughts on this before we get into Apple's other problem? I think it's the beginning of the decay of Apple. Peak Apple. Well, let's get into that. There's tons of headwinds facing Apple. You can add a bunch of other things to the list as well, Jason. Yeah. The thing is Apple for the last couple of years has been what is effectively what we call a GDP plus growth company, which means that take GDP to 3, 4%. Maybe they can grow by a couple of percentage points more than that. but they are effectively levered to GDP, meaning when you look at a Facebook or an Nvidia, they're growing at 50%, 200%, 2000%, whatever it is, that's not tied to GDP.

52:51They're just taking share. But Apple is a company now that grows as the economy of the world grows. So that's not super great for its future prospects unless they can expand the surface area of where they operate. And then on that dimension, there are a few trillion dollar markets that they can really penetrate. And they just announced that they've killed a project in one of those areas, which is autos, right? Project Titan, which was $10 billion, turned out to be a failure. So all of these things, I think, mean to me that it is effectively becoming a cyclical, rate -sensitive stock. And then the Kudagra is worn about that.

53:30And Nick and I were talking about it this week. And what was interesting about Buffett's letter is that you can tell when Buffett has gotten disengaged with a company based on the number of times he mentions it in his annual letter. So in this example, this is the number of times Apple was mentioned. And just to be clear, what I mean by mentions is not when it's included in a chart or part of a disclosure. What I mean is when Warren actually explicitly mentions it in a positive or even negative way Or he doesn't mention it at all which I think Rings very loudly he went from basically saying Apple was the absolute end all and be all and now what you can start to see is this shrinking And it's gone from basically a bunch of times to almost none He did mention it once but he mentioned it in the context of talking positively about Coca -Cola and hammocks And he was lotting these two positions, but just mentioning that they were not as large in comparison to Apple.

54:29That's the only mention in this year's annual letter. What's interesting about that is the last time that that happened was with drumroll. Well, as far to go, over 15 and 20 years, Buffett built up a huge position. I think he was able to weather the vicissitudes of the market. So even when the markets would contract, he knew when to hold on to that company until he realized that that company was not really one of his forever stocks and he got out of it. And the number of times it basically was mentioned in his letter went to zero. So interestingly, I think this Buffett index is a really important one for Apple, which is it went from a forever holding that he said he would own forever to barely getting mentioned and above him, above Apple on that list were all the Japanese trading companies that Buffett owns, American Express, Coca -Cola.

55:23So that is a person that understands the economy, I think better than anybody else in the world. And so if you're basically taking a lever bet to the economy as a reason to own Apple, and the person that understands the economy the most has now started to pivot away, he started to sell in quarter four, and then you see all of these things, antitrust rules, killing projects in trillion dollar tams. Unfortunately, it speaks for a very bad next five to 10 years for this company unless they figure something out. I think it's just such a great insight with the Warren Buffett mentions. And we should do that forward looking.

55:58Like, who is he talking about now and what's the monitor when he stops talking about them? I have a theory about this. I think this is really just about peak iPhone. If you look at the majority of their revenue, it's obviously from the iPhone, which has become massively profitable over time. but the iPhone revenue has been flat for a couple of years now. And they're starting to make their money from services. Everybody knows Apple One, iCloud storage, Apple Arcade, Apple Music, Apple Plus TV. They've got a great collection of services and services revenues growing, but I don't think that they are filling in this growth problem with the iPhone.

56:34And this happened to me for the first time, and I don't know if you gentlemen have had the same experience, but I was buying every Apple phone and then I would buy every like mid -medium upgrade like when they would do like a 12 and then a 12S or an 11 11S and when I got to iPhone 13 I was like this thing's kind of peaked and I just forgot to buy the 14 didn't need it and then I bought the 15 and I'm sitting here on my 15 and my 13 I really couldn't tell the difference between them and so now I'm a technologist who would buy it every year the latest one and I don't feel the need to upgrade it And I think that a lot of people and I have family members who would take two generations off.

57:09Now they take three or four generations off. So I don't even know what number I'm on, you know, I don't even know either. It all looks the same to me. Okay. So I mean, that's the problem here. And then if you look at their roadmap, what's what is the device post the Steve Jobs era that they have launched? How do you know what device you have? You got a general in your settings and about. I just checked it. I'm I phone 13 pro. What version of the own? 15 general they're on 15 and I'm on 13 pro. I don't even know. Yeah, and you're not price sensitive Yeah, and these things have gotten absurdly expensive.

57:43So they're trying to really extract what is the what is the latest? 15 15 I'm on a 14. I don't like the hassle of having to like reset everything when I get a new phone Yeah, and it's easy to do now. It's like all in the cloud But even that going to the store buying it like who cares? It's not my app. So I have to re -log in and Freeberg what what Android phone are you on? Are you your Googlers? Isn't the Googlers all have Android phones? Where are you and your team iPhone? I got the Macintosh original 1984. I've only been on Macintosh and Apple products since then. Hmm What iPhone are you on?

58:19Be honest 15 pro. Okay. Have you ever tried a pixel freeberg? I? Don't like it But I just, I'm not used to the OS. I just, what was the rule at Google? If you worked at Google, did, were you kind of forced to have an Android phone or did you just keep your iPhone in your pocket and not take out? There weren't a lot of Android on the market when I was at Google because we acquired the company when I was there and oh, we acquired Andy Rubin's company in O4 and I think the first major devices started to roll out in 07. And so this was all post my era. I left at the end of 06. Wow. That's an amazing chart.

59:02Oh, so pull up this chart. Now, here's the global, here's the global statistics. The US market share is 57 % for iOS, but on a global basis, iOS only has a 27 % market share in mobile operating systems. Android is 72%. And all other is less than 1%. But look at this, it's all the future GDP is on Android. Brazil, Nigeria, India, holy crap. But I think this is one counter to your point, Timoth, that the macro driver is as the economic position, the GDP per capita scales in these breaks nations, they can start to afford to buy iPhones, which are generally some multiple of the Android devices in these markets that you see here.

59:49So while today Android is 72 % of the market, if the emerging markets continue to grow GDP per capita and iOS continues to be the superior product, you'll see Apple able to steal into more share over time. But how do you, but how do you do that when you have messaging groups on Android, when you have photos in Google Photos? Is it does the switching cost stop that do you think? I don't know the answer to that. It's a good question. They're down to $15 to $25 for these Android phones in India. There's a famous sense of the difference. Right. So these Android devices. I think Apple is levered to GDP, global GDP.

1:00:24So they need to figure out some way to grow a superior to that. Like a company in the market. What could they do? Services. A company that generally has a bunch of cash flow being generated by some set of products today. and you will see them stasis over time. The market share for those products could be eaten away. You'll see the profits per year go down. And the company like that will trade anywhere from seven to 20 times. The technology value arises from the value of the brand that you can launch new products, leverage your brand, leverage your distribution, leverage the sale of new services and new products.

1:01:00I think to your point, the challenge Apple is facing is that the pool of options, the portfolio of call options that you would get a new product coming out of Apple is shrinking. Very little. Would the car being taken out of that pool now? Apple Vision Pro, a lot of question marks on how much it can scale. As you guys know, I feel like there's going to be a market for that device, but it's a high end device today. It has to become more cheap to be more ubiquitous. The thing that a lot of these companies confront though is that you can also grow inorganically, right? You don't necessarily have to incubate these projects.

1:01:34we can remember the moment Apple had a chance to buy Tesla. And then they didn't take it. Apple still has a chance to buy a picture company that would take a sweet acquisition off, or Rivian, Lucid, pole star, whatever it is. I'm not saying that these companies are good or not good. I'm just saying that Apple has the one tool that they've never used in their toolbox is the large inorganic acquisition. And at this point, if they are proving that they can't execute internally, the market is going to demand that they prove they can use that balance sheet as a cudgel to go and execute it externally.

1:02:12Yeah, I think the challenge to move that, they're going to discount that cash to zero. The challenge is that there's a certain discipline and quality to the products and the businesses that Apple produces and runs. And it's very hard to see that in other markets. I mean, why would they go by a money losing low margin hardware, a car hardware company when they are proven to make it you know high quality on the reasons project type and fill. Yeah, I think the article in Bloomberg basically said that the reason that they abandoned the project was in part that They did not know how to go from where they were To a full production vehicle that could be level five and then when it was proposed that they step down and just launch a level three autonomous vehicle, everybody said no that it wasn't disruptive enough.

1:03:01Well, if that's the case, the thing that they made a decision about there was not going into a market because of regulation, not because of technical capability. And I don't think that that's necessarily a smart decision. They would have been better off going into the car market, launching a level three vehicle and just letting the market play out. They probably, just like they were able to do music, have the influence to change the laws. Yeah. especially if they stepped in there with their rigor. And they're not doing that. So it's a little bit of a head scratcher what's going on over there. They need some new products.

1:03:31I mean, maybe Apple Vision Pro someday becomes a platform of the future. But they've squeezed as much revenue as they can out of the iPhone. Services seems like the best place for them to make money. But as we see, my idea was just that they should launch a huge competitor to AWS as you were in GCP. So if you look every developer that Apple has, theoretically could have been running on an Apple, not just on Apple's SDK and APIs, but they should be running in an Apple Cloud. You could have made that claim, and it would have made a ton of sense for app developers to have turnkey access to that, right?

1:04:06And they could have subsidized it. And by the way, to Sachsis Point, that would have been an incredible way to defend a 30 % revshare. Okay, listen, I'm taking 30%, but here's a bunch of subsidized access to hardware. And the market would have loved it. And in this AI shift, they can still do that. Where now people are chipping away at the 30%, right? People are saying, well, I can just build around you. They need to do something. And services, Jason, the most valuable thing they could do would be to launch a big cloud, I think. Yeah, I mean, they have all the app developers on test flight ready to go.

1:04:40They just email them and say, hey, here's your free storage. I mean, they could just slowly add features, right? And they're doing this open source. I think it's called Maggi or Magpie or something, but they're doing an image one and Well, if they could if they could just make Siri work like the way it was supposed to using an LLM Have a beef like snappy that we have major upgrade to the iPhone I don't think you need to buy a new iPhone for that because it would just be a software upgrade, but Just getting Siri to work would be The big win. I think that's where they're going with their silicon and they just announced the ampere on the Macbook Air like they're making their own silicon and I think it's going to power LLM locally on the devices and that's so powerful.

1:05:22I was using iFoto this week and in Apple Photos there's now on certain images if you swipe through them you'll see the little AI icon when you click it it tells you things in the photo like that's a bulldog that's pasta and so they're already suddenly adding these features now that's a feature Google's had in Google Photos for five years but go ahead and open your phone right now and search for dog or bulldog or whatever type of dog you got, you know, a Labrador and then watch Golden Retriever that it actually knows how to do it. They never announced it's just subtly being put in there. So there's so many opportunities.

1:05:59If they required a hardware upgrade to get like actually good AI built into the software, then everyone's gonna have to upgrade for that. You'd be honest. That's pretty big motivation to upgrade. They have a Tim Cook. Somebody sent this Tim Cook put AI chips on your phone. But this is an hard, right? I mean, all they got to do is just take the latest open source models and figure out how to customize them for their own products. Yeah, they're doing it. They're doing it right now. All right. Let's go to issue four TikTok bipartisan band. Will the CCP agree a bipartisan group of a dozen plus lawmakers introduced a bill that would effectively ban TikTok?

1:06:36And the House this week, the bill is officially called the protecting Americans from foreign adversary controlled applications, gives bite dance 165 days to divest from TikTok. That's the parent company, the Chinese company that owns TikTok, the app that's very popular in the West, especially here in America. It would make it illegal for companies like Apple and Google to show TikTok in their app stores, as you know, TikTok 170 million US users. And they claim that their headquarters, headquarters in Singapore, I know people who have worked that TikTok or do work at TikTok. And they said, that's nonsense to me.

1:07:10The company said, it has not, and we'll not share user data with the CCP. In my mind, it's an obvious lie. In 2021, the CCP took a board seat on by dance Beijing based subsidiary. That's according to Reuters. And then in 2022, by dance admitted that it accessed IP addresses and data by journalists covering TikTok to see if they'd been in the same place as by dance employees. Obviously to find leakers and by dance claims They fired the people involved. Yariata, last year, a former head of engineering at Bydance, US said CCP members had God mode access to user data in 2018. Sachs, I can go explain more of this, but I just got to go to you here.

1:07:47If this, if Bydance is not spying on Americans and the CCP is on the board, that would be make no logical sense to me. And why are they fighting the divestiture? If it's just the financial reason, why would they take the CCP off their board? Do you think it's spyware? Do you think the US is crazy for allowing this product here in the United States when we're not allowed to put Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, pick your social network in China. We have zero reciprocity here. Look, if it's true that TikTok is sharing data with the CCP that I think the United States as well within its rights to either ban it or cause it to be divested.

1:08:28And I personally like the divestiture option. I mean, that's what Trump was suggesting during his term because we don't, I think in the United States, like to just essentially confiscate or destroy people's property, but I think we're within our rights to require it to be divested to an entity that we know is completely separate from and won't cooperate with the CCP. This bill is a better, is better than the last bill we talked about that was targeted at TikTok. I don't know if you remember that one, but it was weirdly prohibiting Americans from using VPNs and gave the government the right to go after Americans who are using VPNs.

1:09:07So this one seems cleaner and better and more narrowly targeted at divester. Now at the beginning of my response to you, I did say if, you know, I know that everyone's just assuming that it's true that TikTok is sharing data with the CCP. But I just want to confirm that that is the case because they are denying it and I can understand why people think it and why it might even be likely but since we do have a concept of due process in America, I do think some evidence you provided that that actually is taking place. Well, we've had whistleblowers inside there but Chimoff, if the CCP is spying on their own citizens, what are the chances that they wouldn't take the opportunity to spy on government officials who have TikTok on their phone or their kids and get compromised on them possibly or no locations of people.

1:10:00What does your gut tell you is a CCP? Is this too dangerous for us to have here in America under CCP control or this kind of influence being on their board? I think you're asking the exact right question. I have two comments to make. One is Nick, if you can bring up this article about the Google AI IP case. Basically what happened was that the DOJ filed an indictment. Actually, I think I sent you guys the actual indictment. But essentially what happened is there was an engineer at Google that has been charged with stealing AI secrets for China. And I don't know whether he's back in China now or not, but the whole point is that if it's happened at Google, right, where there's a motivation for the Chinese intelligence apparatus, and frankly, every intelligence apparatus to infiltrate that organization and get access to all kinds of data, I think we should presume by default that all of these organizations are infiltrated.

1:11:09And I think that that's probably a more conservative and reasonable posture. So Facebook is infiltrated. Google is infiltrated. Apple is infiltrated. TikTok is infiltrated. So on that dimension, I think that it should be considered a hundred percent certainty that this data is getting back to not just the Chinese, but multiple state -sponsored actors. So the question about TikTok then, I think should be one of business. And I think Palmer Lucky did a very good job of simplifying this down to its essence, which is essentially what he called the law of equivalent exchange. If you want to just play this, it's like just a few seconds.

1:11:46I was kind of frustrated that people made TikTok into a cultural issue. No, by the way, I'm totally on the culture war side of it. But I was saying, practically speaking, you should not make this a culture war issue. Don't talk about how it's ruining our youth's ideals. Just say strictly on a trade basis. Yes, we cannot allow them to sell this thing to us if we can't sell the same thing to them. Like that should be totally fair. That's reciprocity. That's reciprocity. Me and Palmer Lucky and Singh. Right, so this is what he calls the law of equivalent exchange and I think it just makes a lot of sense.

1:12:19So on the face, what I would say is, Jake out my responses, I think that the CCP, but also other intelligence organizations have infiltrated all of these big companies and all of our data is accessible by them. I'm not gonna say on a whim, but I think it's accessible. I think you have to deal with TikTok as a business issue, and I agree with Palmer Lucky, which is they should not be able to sell to us what we cannot sell to them. And I think that that's a fair principle that we can live on. Restor process is a very simple position, freeberg. Let me use your creativity, your love of cinema. If you were to use this tool, let's take the most cynical approach here, were interpretation, CCP has complete access to the algorithms and they want to do maximum damage, let's say during the election, let's say in a conflict like the one going on in Ukraine with Russia or in Gaza, what could they do using the algorithm, using videos, what would be the Doomsday scenario for America?

1:13:22As in the CCP comes in and influences the management of this company and tells them what to tweak and how and why? Yeah, content. What would they do? I think we saw this during after October 7th that there was a significant surge in pro -Hamas videos relative to Israel support videos. That's the sort of thing where you could kind of see something that sets an opinion that may be disruptive to the social fabric, to the election cycle that starts to get shared more frequently and shows up in feeds more frequently. Unlike Facebook and other places where there's a linear feed where you can scroll up and select what you want to watch.

1:14:06As you know, TikTok has already lined the videos up. So when you scroll up, they've automatically play the next thing for you. So the ranking really matters in terms of viewership on TikTok, unlike a lot of other kind of select to play social media tight networks. Could it shift in election? Hearts in minds? You know, war? Well, I've always said this. I think it's the craziest thing in the world that someone can spend advertising dollars and change someone's vote. Just think about that fact for a second. I've said this before and people have told me I'm an idiot for saying it, but think about the fact.

1:14:40Think about the fact. Or that it does. That both. That it does is what I mean. Sure. But think about it. Like people don't individually go and gather data and then make an informed opinion about who they're going to vote for. their opinion changes based on seeing an ad. It is so crazy to me that that's the truth. I think the country knew that it does. That's why they prevented it from happening until it's united. Yeah, exactly. But I mean, I think that's what's so nuts is that there's no longer a forced discourse that kind of makes people go out and choose what content they want to consume, what they want to hear, debate stages, et cetera.

1:15:18That now it's about who spends the most money to get the most views in front of someone and that that actually influences someone's decision on who to vote for is what's so compelling to me about why all of these systems have such extraordinary power. It's just so amazing to me that the more frequently someone sees an ad, the more likely they are to buy something or do something. Here's the bottom line. This thing, the more frequently you choose someone to memetic on TikTok, the more likely they are to vote something differently. This thing is far too powerful for the CCP to have any kind of access to it, for the Chinese If you look at what we went through in the last couple of election cycles, not being partisan in here at all, but we've said, and we've talked about Hunter Biden's laptop as but one example, that was suppressed, obviously on social networks.

1:16:05That could have been amplified in social networks, and it could have had the opposite effect. Hillary Clinton's emails, Trump this, Hillary this, Biden that you could really sway an election by putting in specific subtle information, let alone taking a hack and releasing it like they did with Hillary Clinton's email. So, you know, those things might not have swayed an election, but, Saks, if Putin had access to this, like somebody who's super capable, and he had access to 100 ,000 years old. Of course, that's always where it goes. No, I'm just, this point is, is totally pulling the strings of our election.

1:16:39Or, okay, Iran. This is like the biggest threat inflation ever. Okay, look. If you ask people out there, do you think other people's votes are influenced by social media? Of course, people are brainwashed. If you say to them, is your own vote influenced by social media? Do you make up your own mind based on all the information you have? They'll say, yeah, of course, I'm not brainwashed. Everybody else is. And I believe that people are closer to telling the truth when they're talking about themselves because they understand their own situation better than they understand everyone else's situation.

1:17:11The fact of the matter is that all of us are constantly bombarded with information 24 hours a day, seven days a week through all of the channels, both online and offline, where we get information. Some of those data points come from advertisements, but I don't think we take ads very seriously. We're trained to kind of even just block out the ads. When I see banner ads or even ads in my stream, I just like scroll past them. They don't even factor in my consciousness. I am influenced by accounts that I follow, but there are accounts that I've chosen to follow because I think they have signal over noise.

1:17:49And the more noisy those accounts are, the more I disregard them and take them less seriously with advertisements being the most noisy and least useful channels. So look, I think at the end of the day, this idea that we're all being brainwashed and secretly influenced by malign foreign actors, I think is at a minimum threat inflation and that entire narrative might just be completely bogus. Nonetheless, I do agree that for data collection reasons and reciprocity reasons, I think it's, like I said, we're within our rights to require the divestment of TikTok. Yeah, you know, it's actually, you saw them.

1:18:26But don't make this into more than it is. Again, I think this whole disinformation narrative, by the way, you wanted to why they push it so hard is because our own intelligence community wants to be involved. And there are political actors in the US who want to regulate quote, disinformation on our own social networks. And I'm not talking about TikTok. I'm talking about X, I'm talking about Facebook, Insta, and so on. And we saw this in the Twitter files. We saw what a cozy relationship the intelligence community had with Twitter. They were all up in there trying to control what legacy Twitter was all out there.

1:19:04What they were censoring. You are out. They blocked the New York Post. You're out and you've set on this program that you believe that could have swung the election. Well, I think it was that I think that actually was genuine election interference. I actually said I didn't know whether it could swing the election. I think that what I think that I think it was a story that deserve a public a public so that and distributed online so that the public could take that into account when they voted. I mean, and so if it had been widely received, do you think I'm asking a question? How would I not answering it?

1:19:36Okay, you're asking me a question. I personally think is irrelevant. How would I know whether the suppression of that story swung the election? How can I know that? The point is that the American people were deprived of information that that every election is believed that actually is a election. It would have swung the election. Yeah, I can't prove. I can't prove that it's one of the election. What I'm saying is that it was a type of election interference. Why was that story suppressed? Because 51 former intelligence officials who still maintained close relationships with the intelligence community published a bogus letter saying that it was Russian's information, which it wasn't.

1:20:13And then that caused our social media sites to suppress it. So that to me is as concerning, if not more concerning, than whatever it is, a TikTok So I don't want social media companies being used by the intelligence communities of either China or the United States to swing or to influence our elections. And we need to be equally concerned about that as we are about supposed to Chinese influence. Just go back in time. You probably remember the Willie Horton ad? I mean, that kind of sunk to caucus if you remember that. I mean, media and these ads can really have a big impact. So people should just look historically.

1:20:52There have been many moments where whether it's Nixon sweating on TV or the Willie Horton ad There have been many moments where video can do this and I think the they could be done even more subtly by the Chinese by just You know promoting certain videos. All right. Let's move on to Bitcoin issue five Bitcoin's back baby It hits an all -time high 69 ,000 interesting number on Tuesday day, 69 ,000 before dropping, sitting around 60 AK, guys were taping, there'd be 75 by the time you hear this or 50. It's been ripping in 2024 of 70 % since January 25. There's two things going on here that you've probably heard about.

1:21:33The Bitcoin ETFs finally arrived in the US. They were approved by the SEC on January 10. We'll get into them in the miniature mouth. Obviously, it's an ETF. It's super easy to buy them and sell them. They've been a total hit. Black Rocks Bitcoin ETF became the fastest ETF to ever reach 10 billion in assets also as the Technical crypto heads and the audience know there is a having happening in April This happens about every four years at the current pace last one was May of 2020 when these halfings Happened the mining rewards are cut in half this reduces the supply of new pickoins entering circulation and can cause some swings Shemoth, we had a, we released a clip, I think, just about your prediction.

1:22:17And you nailed it. Again, you said this would be a big year for Bitcoin. So your thoughts on being right. I don't have much thoughts on that, but my two comments are that I talk to a lot of Bitcoin traders and folks that seem to have a very good pulse and touch on this market. I don't say that I I do because I don't really look at it every day. But they seem to think that this thing is on a death march to 100 kick. I'm not sure whether that price is realistic or not in the year, but I will say that we're going to get to a tipping point where everybody really talks about this. I still don't think we're there yet.

1:22:58I think we're just at the beginning. But when you see the inflows into these ETFs, Check out it's like a very big deal because it just allows every Mom and pop individual To buy some to the accept that they want to own it or they want to speculate on it whatever it is So I think it's been a very big year and I think that psychologically it's proven a lot of folks wrong and it's a setup for something really constructive the other thing I'll say is that it's not just Bitcoin, but as goes Bitcoin, there are a handful of other things. People are now speculating that there's going to be an Ethereum ETF that gets approved as well, because if you approve one, there's probably legitimate cause to approve a few others.

1:23:44So these things are becoming part of the financial fabric, and I think that that should not be underestimated. And the SEC is still taking action against certain bad actors and crypto. There were a couple of those this week. but Bitcoin, Friedberg is incredibly resilient, just on a technological basis. The fact that it hasn't broken down under stress, it hasn't had a denial of service type of attack or a government hasn't been able to capture 51 % of the mining or some great amount of it or just even be hacked in any way. You have to be impressed by the fundamental technology here, Friedberg, maybe you'd speak to that level of success that this thing is so stable and trustworthy and reliable to date.

1:24:30It's got a great incentive model as long as Bitcoin price remains high. The miners will still be there and the system will keep running. If Bitcoin price drops, transaction fees will decline. The value of mining will decline. and it kind of goes the other way as well. I think the real question is in the last couple of years, have we really seen a change in Bitcoin being used for transactions or for commerce in any meaningful way? I think the answer is still likely not. No, definitely not. And it's really a stored value system and it's become this kind of stored value asset. Freiber, this microplastics thing, we talked about it on the show.

1:25:11And since that time, I refused open plastic bottles. I'm doing all glass. I'm getting rid of all this goddamn plastic. I already did glass bottles in the house because I'm cheap. And I like to fill it from my water filter, but we're uncovering more information. And then I saw this headline this week that microplastics are in our blood streams, in some cases, and what the heck does that mean? Tours and that. Team of scientists in Italy collected samples from patients that had plaque removed from the carotid artery. It's a kind of common cardiac procedure where you get plaque that blocks up in your carotid, they go in, they remove the plaque.

1:25:53So a total of 304 patients agreed to have the plaque that was removed from their artery submitted for analysis. And then what this team did is they took that plaque and they studied it to see how much plastic was found in that plaque. And they used a bunch of measurement techniques to do this, including electron microscopy and mass spec. So they, because it's really hard to find these molecules. And microplastics or nanoplastics remember our less than five millimeters in size with a mean level of 21 micrograms per milligram of plaque. Roughly one per 50 is the ratio of plastic to plaque that they found, which is really incredible because it shows that plastics, these little nano and microplastics are accumulating.

1:26:41Incredible, incredible, bad. Incredible, bad that these microplastics, these nanoplastics are accumulating in the human body. Now, here's the scary part. They then did a follow -up 34 months later. The patients had plastic in their blood had a four and a half times higher ratio or likelihood of having heart attack, stroke or death from any cause. So all of these major health effects were four and a half times elevated in patients that had plastic in their blood. This was published in the New England Journal of Medicine if I didn't say it. It really indicates that there is this kind of cumulative problem and that the cumulative problem is likely leading to really adverse health outcomes.

1:27:23And I'll just highlight one other paper from a team in Germany and Norway back in May of 2022. And this team tried to figure out how plastics are causing adverse health effects in the body. And they had a theory like let's put little microplastics or nanoplastics together with all the human cells that we know, shake it up and see what happens. And what they found were that these little plastic fragments were binding to dendritic cells and monocytes, It's key cells in the immune system. And when those cells were bound by plastic, they released the cytokins and the pro -inflammatory signals go through the roof.

1:27:57It causes the immune system to go highwire, increases inflammation, and the cascading effects of that, obviously, can ultimately lead to many of the events that we're measuring or measured in this set of patients in Italy. So again, we're just starting to uncover these effects. This concept that microplastics and nanoplastics are accumulating, let me just say, These plastics are mostly PET, which is what we use to make plastic bottles that we drink water and drinks out of, and PVC or polyvinyl chloride, which is what a lot of our plastic plumbing and piping is made from. And so as little tiny bits of these plastic materials either are exposed to sunlight and break off and end up in our water and food supply and we consume them, they are slowly accumulating in bodies, and they may be driving inflammatory response, they may be driving adverse health outcomes.

1:28:43were really kind of tip of the iceberg and really studying this understanding and analyzing it. But here's another really interesting empirical data set that highlights that this really is. Pretty significant half the patients had it. And of that half, they had a four and a half times higher chance of dying or having a heart attack or a stroke in the 34 months that followed. Yeah, the thing that that study said, which was not, is it look like the nano particles, the nanoplastics and microplastics were effectively acting as scaffolding for plaque. So it almost like it was a it was a shim that allowed it to grow.

1:29:20The question is, would it have grown faster than it would have otherwise? That's even scarier. So I did not like reading that paper. That really freaked me out. Really, really freaked me out. I was drinking water from plastic water bottles this week and Whenever he got my drink water out of a plastic bottle, now I'm like, like nervous every time I take a sip. You're not supposed to double your, the risk of all cause mortality by drinking a feegee water. You know what I mean? Four and a half X. Four and a half X. It's crazy. In 34 months, think about the cumulative effect over time. Over time? Over time?

1:29:56Yeah, imagine drinking water out of a plastic bottle, thinking you're doing the right thing and then trotting over the recycling bin, you know? Yeah. And you do that for 20 years, you may be killing yourself. Well, there it is. So wait, what's the if you if you if the water has bottles, yeah, you must use what you cannot use plastic. You just know no plastic. No plastic. You got to stop. It's over. It's done. It's done. Glass cans. Good plastic. Can't steal the steel stainless steel is fine. Just like I mentioned, when we talked about this a few weeks ago, the carbon footprint, the environmental cost, the cash cost is much higher with all these alternatives to plastic.

1:30:37So there are big challenges with respect to having some big, massive response to plastics using our supply, but living in the luxury world that we all get to live in, we get to have that choice and we'll make that choice. But it's a real problem for humanity because plastics are so ubiquitous in so many things and they've enabled affordability of consumer goods. This is such bullshit, honestly. All you have to do is have glass bottles or carry a water bottle with you. like I have a contigo one I like. I carry it with me. I empty it. I sell it. And I have a lot of work filter in my house and we fill water bottles and put them in the fridge.

1:31:14No, but what if you like yogurt? Yogurt comes in a plastic container. There's all kinds of stuff. You can't avoid plastic. That's what's so scary. We try to. That's what's so scary. We do have a French yogurt that comes in glass bottles, but yes, it is hard. Ah, yes, we do the French yogurt and glass bottles. It's so good. It's so good. It's so great. Where do you get it from? There's a French yogurt that comes in glass bottles. No, fine sugar. And a glass bottle. But I haven't had a water bottle. It's come like left, left, left, left, or something? Left and one? No water, you just install a filter system which you have at the mausoleum and just fill huge glass bottles.

1:31:45Just have your staff fill the glass bottles and put them in the fridge and don't throw them away. And give your kids some of these thermoses or whatever, but don't have the water bottles. Like, you know, so funny. It's been a disaster in the poker game in some ways. We got rid of it. And there's been way more broken glass, people knock over the, you know, the side tables. I get it. It's been a huge pain, but I will not go back. No. So right now, I'm sorry. I think so. Okay. Well, if if Timoth is endorsing this, I guess I'm going to take it seriously. I think you got to do it. My opinion doesn't matter, sex.

1:32:19I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying that your threshold for becoming concerned is lower. And then if it hits Timoth's threshold, which is higher. I'm gonna take it more seriously. As your bestie, I would like you to stop using plastic on the rest of your life. You're in a position to do it. I would ask you to not do it. All right, everybody. Can all of you f***ers come back to the barriers so we can see each other? Absolutely, I miss you guys. I love you guys. I miss you guys too. For the Sultan of Science, the Chairman Dictator, and the Rainman David Sachs. I am the world's greatest moderator.

1:32:57Okay, I love you guys. I gotta go. I love you see you next time

1:33:32We should all just get a room and just have one big hug or two because they're all just just like this like sexual tension but we just need to release them out. What your beat beat? What your beat beat? Beat what? We need to get merch. I'm going on leave. Is there anyone?

1:33:54I'm going on with it! Theird?