In conversation with Mark Cuban

24:44And so he, and that was coming from the oil companies. And so what he did, he said, okay, MBS owes me a favor over in Saudi Arabia. That's the connection. And Putin's my boy. I'm going to go to them and ask them to reduce production. Now what happens to the price of gas when the largest producers of oil and energy decrease their production? The price starts going up and up and up. And so you can track the increase in the price of gas and how that impacted the price of goods the entire time that the production from the 10 % Reduction until they they increase it like 300 ,000 barrels a day for two years.

25:32What is your argument here? You're saying that's a nice Trump -causing inflation. Yes, and I'm explaining to you. I'm getting the mainstream media First of all, by the way, the the war in Yemen started on March 26, 2015 according to chat to you, P .T., which is under Obama. No, I can't tell. So that's not an under Obama. That's fine, but he had a chance that he was asked to end it by Congress. He was that he we were sending he was selling $660 billion. I don't know the number. I can't remember exactly in weapons to Saudi Arabia and he there was a record. How did the fact that we had 9 % inflation in 2022?

26:06So two years after Trump's office. I'm gonna look so glad you had that day. How in the world is Trump responsible for that and not Biden Harris? So glad you asked that because the mainstream media never talks about this stuff. And so she'll a little dig there. So Trump goes in and says, we're going to cut the production by 10%. Demand is still relatively low. But in April, May, June, as people start venturing outside their house and to the end of 2020, the end of this term, there's an increase in demand. But the increase in demand, the increase in production doesn't match the increase in demand.

26:41They limited as part of this deal that Trump put together between Russia and Saudi Arabia and that led to other people in OPEC Plus participating. They only increased the production of oil by 300 ,000 barrels a day, which didn't keep up with the amount of demand that was happening. That started increasing the price of gas. That price of gas continued to increase for the two years this program was in place. This program wasn't like, let's just cut it for 60 days and go back at it. It wasn't, let's just do this for 90 days. Let's just do this during the Trump administration. No, no, no, no. This deal went before they took two years before they got back to pre -pandemic levels of production.

27:29And so listen to what Trump says about drill baby drill. Why does he say drill baby drill will lead to lower costs because oil and energy costs are part of everything and you know what matches up perfectly. What matches up perfectly is that 9 .1 % in 2022 and the day that that agreement ended where MBS and Russia limited production that agreement ended it like this. If you did your little Venn diagram that like and increased production, decreased production, bam. So to put it, that is the answer to your question. They're just to summarize what you, the argument that you don't like about him is you got to know him like many people do.

28:12You worked with him on projects and like Pence, bar, Mateus, Tillerson, billbar, and my Cohen and the movie. Omarosa, you realized this person is out for themselves. They don't care about the people they work with and you fell out of Friendship with him or whatever. There's a lot of people who don't who worked with him who think he's an idiot and don't like him now You're on that list. Yeah, I mean, I don't think he's I think that's my position. I'm just summarizing it

28:42Work with one of the greatest sales people ever. He's one of the greatest, you know Motivators in terms of crowd motivation ever But can I just want to be here? He's Roy Cohen Jr. That is who he is. If you read books about Roy Cohen, everything Roy Cohen says to do tracing back to the McCarthy hearings in 54, everything Roy Cohen says to do, that is exactly what Donald Trump does. I just want to paint this thing and then I'd like to hear the glass half full version to the extent that I have one. But basically, I just want to understand. So my understanding was in 2020, what happened was not that Saudi Arabia and Russia were cooperating to cut prices, but they got into a fight because it wasn't really, it wasn't really Saudi, but it was open, which includes us and Yeah, OPEC plus which is versus Russia and we initiated against them which they counteracted a price war They initiated against Saudi Arabia initiated against Russia, but what I'm trying to understand is there's a war in Yemen Right we don't Stop the armaments of Saudi and I guess what you're saying is that then triggered and OPEC.

30:01No, no, no, they're saying that MBS O Trump won. MBS O Trump won. So MBS starts the price war with Russia one year later. And the oil companies come to Donald and say, look, we're getting destroyed. Demand is dropping. They've increased because of this price war between Saudi Arabia and Russia. Saudi Arabia it, decides to take it to Putin and increases their production significantly. So in order to keep the revenues up, Russia's got to do the same thing. Meanwhile, all the demand is dropping because of the pandemic. And so Donald gets asked by the insurance companies to go to MBS and to Putin and say, we need to stop this price war.

30:48We need to reduce production. and to his credit, if you think that's a positive, to Trump's credit, he did it. And so by reducing production over a plan of two years and you can go look at the production numbers, right? And when that stopped, by doing that, that increased the price of gas, the price of oil, the price of energy. And that was bad for American consumers who utilized, paid for gas for their cars, really bad for him. But he decided to work with his oil company buddies and protect them. You can say that's a good decision or bad decision. Maybe a strategic, he really felt they could go out of business and he wasn't willing to give them money to help them.

31:31But the bottom line was that matches up exactly to that 9 .1 % that David Sachs mentions. It also matches up to, okay. Does he fully support the oil companies over the price of gas and will that influence what he will do as President again? So when he says, I'll just get out of Ukraine, depends on who's making the money and where it is. When he says, I'm going to get people to drill baby drill. Well, we already learned a lesson. Sorry, sorry. Okay, so this is very hard to hold on a second. This is very hard to fact check in real time because I've never heard the theory before. I don't know. We can have a theory on the pod.

32:15I just have free bird. I get a free bird. I have the next question yet. So let me try to point the point is that, you know, this is like totally novel. I don't even think I've heard you make this theory on X before that was waiting. Okay. So here we go. So you're trying to hold a free bird. We haven't been able to get involved. Let's have free bird. Basically, it's like this nonsense. And I don't get to interrogate it a little bit. Not that David. You know, I don't know. Let me ask you a question. Well, pre -per -touch, go chat to your GPT and go Google it, go look it up, however you want. Okay.

32:47What about the fact that Biden's first day in office, he cancels the Keystone pipeline and a bunch of leases. He makes it harder to drill in the United States. So he reduces the ability for domestic producers to produce. You don't think that that would have an impact? Yeah. But it wasn't on the price of gas because the price of gas is a global phenomenon, right? right, the price of oil rather is a global phenomenon. It's, we are the largest producer of energy in the world, but we're still only about 13 percent. I think it is, don't quote me on that, but that's a range. And so the other 87 percent has more of an impact.

33:24And even to that, there was still an unlimited amount of drilling available on public lands and leases available that weren't fully used. Now that said, I think Biden did mistakes, did make mistakes. We're stopping. Okay, guys, hold on. Let's just finish one thing before the other. I would just like an answer of what is the good and the bad of Donald Trump And then what I was gonna ask you is what was the good and the bad of Biden? I just want those to my For Jesus guys just just just just give me one so can I just ask make one comment? I've been here for like 40 minutes Yeah, try to get you in I want to respond to the inflation point mark I you know, I just shared two images first with the US crude oil production chart and more than half of this oil is exported So you can see the reduction in production, but the domestic oil production capacity remain high relative to our consumption.

34:19So US consumption, if oil was the biggest driver, it really would have affected the profits of the exporting companies, not necessarily the cost of energy domestically. I will, however, point out that the federal balance sheet, the federal trillion dollars to eight trillion dollars. And as we all know, there is significant fiscal stimulus meaning the federal government. I would say with the only cause. I would argue that flooding the world with dollars, which is what the federal reserve did because they bought up all the bonds as the federal government started to issue money in lots of different ways, caused the supply of dollars to go up, which causes the cost of anything that's dollar denominated to grow up.

35:05And I think many economists would argue and make the case that the fiscal policy and the monetary policy of the federal government and the federal reserve is largely to account, and I'm not going to use the word blame, but to account for the inflation we saw in the cost of everything from energy to production to labor to assets. But they're not mutually expressive. They're not mutually expressive. They're not, but there was also significant, as we can all acknowledge, massive in a dynamical system, global supply chains are a dynamical system. Stuff is made in one place, moved to another place.

35:37When one thing breaks, or it's down, it all breaks. And we had a massive shortfall of green, a hundred percent. Goods around the world. And that was the biggest driver of the inflationary effects that we saw in the past. I agree, 100 percent. But even if you go back to those, the first two charts you put up, it matches up with exactly what I said. Production went down to man and went up and the net result was that price of gas went up and price of gas is in everything. Is it the only cost per? No, production went down in everything, not just energy, but everything and not because of energy, but because of a lot of other reasons.

36:11And then we had a whiplash problem where we had over -demand relative to the natural and none of the production systems could keep up with demand. I agree. Because of the fiscal stimulus. I agree 100 % with you. All I'm saying, you can try to trace it back to maybe it's 1 % of the price, maybe it's 3 % of the price, maybe whatever the percentage is. I'm not saying it's exclusive, but you can trace it back to the decision being made to support the energy companies and say we are going to reduce production rather than just letting the market play out and saying we'll let gas prices stay as low as they are based off of supply and demand.

36:46Now, do I agree with you that supply change is ruption, transitory? Yes, of course. And fiscal and monetary policy. Yes. Like stimulating the world economy, where pouring a sh** on the money out, that's never happened in history, right? For sure, 100%. The question is important. Do you think Larry Summers was wrong when in Q1, the first quarter of the Biden -Harris administration, Larry Summers warned that if you pass another two trillion of COVID stimulus, like they're planning to do, that gets set off inflation, that we are on the brink. He did make that declaration against his own party mark and he said, this is the wrong thing, as a Democrat, he said, this is the wrong thing to do.

37:27And they went forward with what they planned to do for various reasons, someone argued political, someone argued that they thought it was the right thing to do. And the effect was precisely as Larry had predicted. Yeah. Kamala Harris cast the tie -breaking vote for that inflation explosion act. Otherwise, you can just make sure you can rest in peace. Otherwise, no one is the American rescue plan. So here's the actual, I agree with, I agree with Freeberg. The call of this massive 20 % inflation we've had over a five years. No, that's, but that's the only thing. Is a secret deal between Trump and MBS and like Putin's in there somewhere.

38:02You can dismiss it all you want, David. Just look at the data. and look at the numbers and they match up. Now, to the free burst point, the free burst point is that the only thing that caused inflation, of course not. When you spend too much money, when you inflate the economy, when you have supply chain, chain disruption, all those things contribute. But we're also not having the conversation to say, okay, how much of the supply chain disruption contributed to inflation? Was it 3 % of that 20 % was it 5 % was it 7 % was it 1%, we don't know, it's impossible. Well, the supply, the supply, on the supply chain was constrained during COVID and it was healing.

38:37It was getting better. And then they pumped all the stimulus and everyone got these to level set. Let me just let me just let me level set more. I did opinion. Let's leave the opinion. I'm just really curious. I just want the high level report card on the last two presidents. What is the high level report card mark to put a cap on this just for the audience? Here is our national debt over the two presidencies, the two terms. And as you can see with the taking out the bump for COVID, it's pretty much they're both wild spenders. I think we can all agree. They both are spending too much money and we need to have more fiscal discipline.

39:10We all agree on that. Now to Jim Oats Point, it's steel man, anything you like about the Trump presidency and then we'll go to Kamu. I mean, I think there was good elements of the tax cut. I think he went too far, but I think they needed to come down from 35%. Whatever the corporate rate, 35 % I think was corporate. That was too expensive. that made it difficult for us to compete globally. I thought bringing down cap gains, again, I forget exactly what they were, maybe 29%, I forget, was also smart, but I think you went too far, but you can argue that there's no right answer on what that is going to be.

39:50It's a guess, right? You just put it out there and you hope what you plan and what you propose and what is implemented works, and you don't know until it does. So I didn't have a problem with him trying that. Yeah, 35 to 21. You got it exactly right. Yeah. You've acknowledged that Kamala's unrealized gains taxes of disaster. Well, I'll acknowledge that it's not real and you're making it up that you've never heard of. I made it up. Yeah. You made her up her. It was in the Biden, the last Biden Harris budget. It was in the Harris platform at the DNC. It was that the Biden platform at the DMC. Well, they put her name and talk about it.

40:27You did a search for place on his name and put her name in there. But you're you're reaching David, you're reaching, right? You've never heard her talk about it at all. She's been very specific that tap gains goes to 28 % that that that's what is Biden. What is Biden done well and what has he not done well? And then the follow -up question is, if it were an open democratic primary, would you have voted for Kamala Harris? I don't know. But then again, if Donald Trump participated in the debates on the Republican in primary, in Republican primary, would you have voted for Donald Trump? There is not way to that.

41:04You're saying it's analogous. The Republicans have an open primary. No, but they did. He did, but he did. But he did because of that. I think he hailed he competed, that an open primary Trump was 50 points ahead. Maybe he should have debated, I don't know, of course. No, I mean, look, I would have been in favor of him debating, but he was 50 points ahead, then everybody had a chance to run. that it was really not totally different because the Democrats pretended, hold on, we finished and you can get your response. The Democrats pretended that Joe Biden was just fine, that he was sharp as a tack, that he was the best version of Joe Biden.

41:40And when the primary came and you had outsiders like Bobby Kennedy tried to compete, not only did Biden not debate, they basically used law fair to keep Bobby Kennedy off the ballot. but they did not allow him a fair shot at the nomination, which is why he had to leave the party and run as an independent. Then we find out after the debate that actually Biden is not fine, he's actually appears to be in significant cognitive decline. So somehow Nancy Pelosi gets him out of there and then Kamala Harris is anointed. She's never won a primary vote ever. She, in 2020, she ran and dropped out before the first primary.

42:22And then this time around she never had to compete in the primary. And so now she's in our sex candidate. The question is, I don't think, well, the question is how can you liken this to what the Republicans did having an open and competitive primary? So first of all, the Republicans did not have an open and competitive keyword competitive primary because if one of the candidates refuses to participate because they have a lead, look what happened to Joe Biden for all we know. the VEK would have destroyed Trump as much as Trump destroyed Joe Biden. Nikki Haley would have destroyed Trump as much as Donald Trump destroyed Joe Biden.

42:59I was supporting DeSantis a time and it was definitely not that bad. DeSantis would have crushed him too. They all would just have been their names were on the ballot. You're talking about a very serious. Sex, do you think DeSantis, Nikki Haley or VEK would have beaten Trump in a debate? No. I think when if you look at it, hold on, I'm saying it's unclear. I don't think you can just say that they would have won. Thank you. So that means it's not a truly competitive. When Trump was in a crowded Republican field and debated, he crushed everybody. So I just don't know what would happen. That was 26.

43:32But the point, you're on 26. This is just debate. Okay. What about the point that the Democrats kept other contenders off the ballot, they use law welfare, and moreover, they lied about Biden's cognitive condition. And then they anointed Kamala Harris through a process that is opaque and we still don't know what happened. Okay. So here's my answer, right? First, going back to the public, it wasn't a competitive primary if the contender doesn't participate. And yes, he did well against 15 other candidates in 2016, but I'd be willing to bet that he's also had cognitive decline. Everything he says and does is reflective of that.

44:08Joe Biden had said the same thing, we would be having a lot of, we would, we don't judge Donald Trump and his cognitive ability the way we did Joe Biden. Okay, so we'll put that behind. Now let's go to Joe Biden. I can tell you, I can tell you, Democrats lied about Biden's condition. Let's just, let me tell you, my personal experience is with Joe Biden, right? I didn't talk to him a lot twice during that period. And I can tell you from the first time I saw him a year before the last time I saw him, which was, you know, probably in March or April, I forget there was a decline. But the decline was in his sharpness, right?

44:43His quickness of response. If you sat down and you listened to him speak about something which I did, he wasn't forceful, he wasn't, you know, he looked like a walking corpse, he looked awful, right? But in terms of content, it was there. And so I understand why they positioned him the way they did. It's just to sell it was impossible. So that's part one. So I don't think the decline is nearly what you're saying it is, but I do agree that. They get rid of them. Why are they? Okay, so now we're moving forward, right? His ability to respond in real time, you slow down. We all slow down, right? I'm 66 years old and I've slowed down versus where I was at 45.

45:23You so you know at 81 and at 78, you were going to be slower. Joe Biden and just was not as quick. That was a real problem. He got destroyed in the debate by Trump because of that. not because he didn't know the materials and the content, but he just couldn't respond and think fast enough. So I think that's where the misunderstanding is. It's not that he had cognitive decline in the pure sense. It's that his ability to respond quickly was gone. And he looked like he had cognitive decline. So now let's go forward to the Democratic National Convention and right before that, we're there replaced it.

45:58I was curious about just the mechanics of the whole thing. So being the curious person I am, I went and pulled up the bylaws and the rules of the Democratic Party and the Democratic National Convention. And they reset those every four years, prior to them pulling out. And it's very, very clear that the only mission and the only task, and it's pretty much the same in the Republicans. I look at that there's two. The only mission is to win. You want to win the presidency, you want to have control of Congress, that's all they care about. And they give themselves every bit of flexibility to do whatever they damn well, please, to put themselves in that position.

46:39They are a profit organization. Okay, so are they the party, are they the party then of democracy as they claim to be, or are they the party of winning it all? No, no, so now you're trying to, you know, play branding games, right? It's starting on this thing that they're at or at least not wrong. That's what they actually did. Almost done. There were 14 million primary voters in the Democratic primary. That's the mainstream media discussion of this, right? They said there's 14 million voters. I say Trump didn't debate at all. There was zero debates with Donald Trump. There's no primary though.

47:08People got to vote for their candidate. Yeah, but it's not an open primary because it's Donald Trump's family business. He controlled what happened. And the what? Yeah. Listen, I mean, I was again, I was supporting someone different during the primary and the reason why DeSantis losses. He didn't get enough votes. Okay. Okay, the party would have been missed an opportunity. One Donald Trump. And I bet you have won the primary fair and square, whether he debated or not, he was up 50 points on everybody else. And I bet, and I don't know I was afraid to say that. And not what happened with Biden.

47:35What happened with Biden is Biden. Yeah, but have you finished David? Let me finish. If Biden won the Democratic primary, he got 14 million votes. And then they threw that, that threw out that result and put in Kamala Harris because they didn't like his debate for this. We were in a fraternity. What's that? We ever in a fraternity? We ever in a fraternity? Okay, in a fraternity, they get to vote and all kinds of sh**. But at the end of the day, if the chapter, the national organization says no, right, it doesn't matter who won the election. Right. So you're saying the Democratic Party is a cliff.

48:04I get it. I mean, let me re -game the party. Just to re -game the party. Just to re -game the party. David, you're just talking branding. You can brand it however you want. No, the Democrats said they're the party. I'm not a Democrat. I'm not a Democrat. I'm not a Democrat. I don't care what they do. I don't care reporting them. I'm supporting them. I'm supporting Congress. You can acknowledge. Hold on. Can you just acknowledge that their rhetoric is hypocritical? I don't care what the rhetoric is. I don't pay attention. I don't pay attention to their rhetoric. We're not going to get progress.

48:32I really want to hear what Mark thinks. Yes. Here we go. Before it. Before it. Before it. Two things seem to be true at the same time. If I'm recapping your position here, Mark, one, you would have liked to see Trump debate. Two, I think you would have loved to see a speed run primary. Perhaps maybe Kamala, you know, So battle did out. I honestly didn't care. Okay. I went, once Donald Trump was the candidate, I wanted the best person to beat Donald Trump. That's what I cared about. Let me go back to my question. So I'm just going to give you a succinct summary of Mark Cuban's position, his evaluation of the Trump presidency.

49:05The positives were tax cuts and warp speed and operation warp speed. The negatives were continuing the war in Yemen when they had a chance to and then this And actually the negative wasn't so much that sorry, Tramau, I thought that the negative wasn't so much He continued at the negative is the hypocrisy and his okay, right in the style. Okay now the tone and style of how he governed Yeah, can we do Biden? What are the things that Biden and Harris did well that have helped the country and What are the things that they could have done better did not do? So I'll start with the negatives first so just so you know that there's a lot of them one the way they handled the border was horrific there's no way to, you know, to say it any differently.

49:46Now, I understand why they took the approach they did. Literally, if I were in a central American company, and my family was at risk of getting shotgun because there's a drug war, I'm doing everything I can. And I recognize, you know, that if I just set foot on American soil, I have a chance for asylum and I get that. And I get why Biden and his administration might say, just for humanitarian reasons, we're going to increase the number of people that we allow to do that. I understand why he would do it. But at the same time, he opened the door to wide. And he made it so that there were too many people that came through and that created cascading problems.

50:27Now, to his credit, down back in June, I think it was, he signed an executive order, which he now has made permanent, or as permanent as you can as president, that changed, that But there's no longer the option to just set foot on American soil and be eligible for a hearing for asylum. You can't do that any longer. And to her credit, she worked with the head of the Mexican government and they have taken steps to reduce the flow of people to the border. And so now the number of encounters at the border is about the same as what it was right before the pandemic under the Trump administration. So while he was too long to do it, while he handled it incorrectly overall and messaging was horrible, I think they got to the right place.

51:15But now we have a problem that he created where we have too many non -citizens, illegal aliens, however you want to call them, however you want to brand them. And we have to understand how to deal with them. I think that they have talked, but Kamala has talked about first and even JD Van said this. first we're going to get rid of the criminals, which makes sense. But Donald Trump says we're just going to deport everybody. Any illegal, we're just going to deport them. Now Obama was the deporter -in -chief. He deported more people than Trump or Biden over three million people, but he had a specific process in place that everybody could understand.

51:54And I think with Trump, remember on that, or, or Yann Gonzales kid, the six -year -old kid in Miami? I mean, Elliot, Elliot is on this, right? Where all of a sudden you had these cops with, you know, riot gear on and machine, you know, and AR 15s or whatever they use, pointing them at a six year old kid, cowering and the closet. If Donald Trump does that, and that's not contrary to how we approach this things, we could have another series of riots and protests that go really, really bad. And so while I think Biden handled things completely wrong at the beginning. I think with Harris, not and she's saying she'll support the immigration bill that was bipartisan, et cetera, et cetera.

52:37You guys know that. I think she has a more common sense approach to dealing with deportations and getting people through the asylum system. And the asylum, that bill, I think said that it would reduce the amount of time to adjudicate asylum to 90 days, which means that there's a chance to get control Okay, so it turns into a right. Okay, so that was border was bad. Anything else bad or should we shift to the good? I think the spending was bad. I think that we overspent and I think we went through a period where, and I'm not trying to make excuses for him. I just think, you know, you guys mentioned this before, he did overspent.

53:13And I think the infrastructure bill was good. I think the broadband bill was good and everybody says we spent $42 billion on broadband and got nothing we should have gone to Starlink. but the reality is the money went to the States and they could buy it's, Starlink from Elon all they want. So that's just kind of the mainstream media poo pooing something they shouldn't poo poo. But the EV stuff, the EV chargers, that's a cluster of f***ing, you know, and there's no way around that. And so I think that was bad. So pork barrel spending, basically unaccountable spending. Yeah, and now I think, you know, what they did in healthcare, you know, you can take Lena Con and say what she's doing for the mergers, you know, Albrecht's and Kroger's, I think, is too much.

53:53I think, you know, and I even told her this. I sat on a panel sitting right next to her and I said, the most important thing from a technological perspective in this country today is that we win AI. That is going to find everything militarily for us and economically for us and that when you try to break up companies like Google and Facebook, you diminish our ability to compete globally with AI. And she told me now that she didn't impact at all, that she She understands that and she's heard that before. I think their approach to that is wrong. I think that what she's done with the FTC against pharmacy benefit managers has been good, right?

54:28Pharmacy benefit managers are ripping off more companies and costing and increasing the cost of medications more than anything else that's happening in healthcare. And she's called them on the carpet with a recent report and just sued them. I think that's good. I think in terms of other negatives like Kamala Harris now. Now I think the filibuster, I think that's a mistake to try to get rid of the filibuster because then somebody else gets rid of it for something else and it's just cascading problems on spending. We talked about, I think he spent too much time. And what have they done well? I think he changed the tone of the country.

55:05I think that was really, really important. No one woke up, you know, David calls it mean tweets, but not waking up concerned about mean tweets is important. not waking up concerned about there being some random tariff on your company that you didn't expect. Not waking up being accused of doing something. I think those were all huge positives. I think supporting workers, I think, you know, just having just a sensibility of, okay, we're not in the middle of everything. There just wasn't this uncertainty like every single day that every business woke up with with Trump. Just removing that was the biggest positive of all.

55:45So let's look forward now to Accomala Harris candidacy for president of the things. So we know the Donald Trump frack record because he gets the credit for the things he got right and he has to take ownership of the things. But how it's been defined, I'll use the Yemen example again. I'll use the price example in oil again, we have Trump, Nezha, right? We presume that what he did in terms of the economy and everything and no wars, you know, no, everything was just rosy under Donald Trump. And I think that's another thing that's next. I'll be honest, I've never heard this specific theory. I'll take the time to look and figure it out for myself.

56:26But what I'm curious about is that track record is there. Now, how much of the, and do you think it's important for us to give Credit for the good things to Kamala and responsibility for the bad things to Kamala in that so that you have an equivalent AB comparison Do you think about it that way or not? No, I don't and I'll tell you why okay? I'm assuming all you guys have had a boss at one point or another Yes, yeah, and you all agree with everything that that boss did all the time No, no, but you had to do with the boss told you to do yeah, and that's Kamala's job But I like to take credit for when the boss tells me I'm owning something and then I do it.

57:04Well, but at the same time, you get credit for doing it, but it doesn't matter. You know, if it turns out to be wrong, it's still the boss that's on the hook for it. What about the border, Mark? Because you made a comment about the border and she was declared the borders are. Yeah, again, that's brandy. I mean, we play branding games with politics all the time. If you look at what her specific responsibility was, I alluded to it earlier, her job was to go to Central America and talk to the heads of the countries there and try to reduce the reasons why people were leaving their countries to go to the United States.

57:38Why do you think they opened the border so much? I'm wondering, Mark, there is a conspiracy theory or theory. You can pick how you want to frame it that this is to increase the number of democratic voters. At the same time, we hear that a lot of the folks coming in who are the working class that the Republican party is now the populist party. So there was votes would go to the Republicans. So, you know, I've heard this argument from both sides. What is more cute? There's another theory, an economic theory mark, which is that it increases the base of workers when we're at our lowest unemployment rate in history and inflation is raging.

58:10So by bringing in low -cost workers that you're able to get to work at a lower wage rate, you actually have a deflationary effect and a stimulatory effect because then they end up being 10%. Yeah, and I get the logic there. I don't think there... I think maybe they might have thought of that earlier and that's why they let too many people in, but I think they realize now that they screwed up. And that shouldn't be an executive authority, right? I mean, that should be like a legislative congressional authority that makes that decision and that determination on whether to change immigration policy.

58:39Do you think that the executive branch should be able to unilaterally determine who comes into the country without following laws? No, I prefer that. Congress does it. Unfortunately, that's just not what worked. Look at the SEC when Gary Gensley, the guys are more on. And but you know, they here we go. And I actually yeah, so that's where we can agree on before we get to that. So so your claim on board we finally found ground truth. No, we don't agree on that. We can agree on that. But before before we do that, I just want to finish up on border here. So your claim is that Kamala Harris really wanted to seal the border but she was prevented.

59:18No, David, you're really good at trying to position things that you have, you know, you have talking points to go out with. Oh, I'm just you said that this is a case of a VP who was thwarted by her boss. No, that's not what I said. That is not what you have meant that she's on board. You were the king of virtue signaling, David. No, the truth is she was on board with Joe Biden's agenda. I don't know. She's doing what she was fucking told you. No, no, you're creating false choices, David. You're creating false So David, if you do the job your boss told you to do, does that, do you make a declaration before you do it if I agree or disagree?

59:59Of course she disagree with Joe Biden about these policies because I see what she's doing now. But she changed the policy, right? She has a different policy. No, election, your conversion, she realizes what a disaster it's been. So when Trump does it, it's brilliant. No, let me give you the proof. Okay. Her own words. Okay. So she flipped her position. She called Trump's border wall un -American and medieval and mocked it and this is before she became Biden's president. Right around the same time. Hold on, when she was in the Senate and Trump was trying to build the wall. Remember, Democrats tried to thwart that.

1:00:30They subjected him to years of litigation to prevent him from building that wall and she multiple times was on record saying the wall was un -American, medieval, mocked, and so forth. She also compared ICE to the KKK. Okay. She said that images of Border Patrol agents evoked slavery. Okay. This is her rhetoric. I don't think Joe Biden made her say that. She suggested that we abolish ICE and start from scratch. Okay. And now she wants to talk about how tough she is on the border. Maybe she talked to JD Vance back then and was taking his positions. People changed their mind for whatever reason. People learn your positioning as this.

1:01:09Okay. So for so hold on. So throughout her all time in the Senate, she was arguing against a border wall. Okay, in the strongest possible language, she then becomes border czar, or you could call it point person for the Biden administration. And for three years, they gaslit us that the border was not a problem. That was not an open, festering wound. Like the videos were constantly coming out. I remember on the show we talked about it. And I was told when I was raised, the issue of the border, that was a conspiracy theory that Fox News was just cherry picking videos. Remember that, Jason? And any of that.

1:01:39Yeah, well people were actually, it was interesting. People were sharing videos and playing them on Fox that were from like 10 years ago. So there was a lot of misinformation. Democrats, you know, think about care, Vance, David, all those care vans never made it to the border. How many care vans did we hear about something like 10 over 10 million migrants have entered the country during the Biden hair of some administration? The first thing they did, hold on. No, when Biden went by it, no, no, no, no, no, no, we do know those, those 10 million are just the border encounters. Those are the recorded crossings that they led into the country.

1:02:13The number we don't know is whether how many more were not recorded. Encounters are not going to be 20 or 30 million. Well, you can look up on the covers. Why did this happen? I'll tell you why. When Joe Biden took office, he repealed all of Trump's executive orders. No, he did not. What is it? 92. What's the idea of them? Title 42. Title 42. And the most around until the end of 23. And in addition, they got rid of Trump's remain in Mexico policy. And they changed the meaning of asylum. So that anyone who went to the border and said that they were suffering economic hardship, which is basically the whole world, okay?

1:02:45Could not qualify for asylum and they were giving, they were given like a ticket to appear in court one day like three years, five years, and they were ushering into the country. And then they were like nonprofits working with the Biden administration to put them on buses and planes. David, I agreed that they screwed up on the country. I agreed they screwed up on the border. I'm on the other side. More than a screw up. No, fine, they screwed up, but now we are back. The cover air has defended it. So yeah, but she changed just like Donald, just like JD Vance. JD Vance called him Hitler. JD Vance in 2020 and after diminished Donald Trump.

1:03:16That was a, that was a, those in private communications in 2016. And JD Vance explained, including last night, why he changed his mind about that. Right. And that's fine. So he talked to people. So so did she representing the state of the people who were in position like six months ago. And now all of a sudden she's the nominee. So she's no, no, no, no, no. You're, you're trying, you're virtually signaling like a mother f***ing, right? You're trying to put your brand anything you tried to brand anything that you disagree with that you think is a negative and just put it on her which is politics 101 right but you're not looking at what she's actually doing what she's actually doing for the administration okay look with what they doesn't matter if she was if she was in charge does and she said you know what what you wanted to do is like JD Van said about abortion right I talked to somebody and you know, they proved it.

1:04:04Great. That was a smart move by him. Would it be smart for her to say I was wrong. Now I've learned more and I picked up more information. Now it's actually a good question for you, sacks. If JD Vance can lobby and want a national abortion ban and then change his mind as the number two for Trump can Kamala change her mind when she is is no longer running for. You know, and the number two seat is Biden. I think I think JD explained why he changes mind about that. that he said that there was a referendum in Ohio and his side lost. So he can change his mind. Can Kamala and you have the grace for Kamala to change your mind or not?

1:04:41Awesome. He's taken a learning from that. Kamala Harris has never explained why she changed her mind. No, it's not that she changed her mind. The almost second, when will the media even ask her this question? She doesn't submit for interviews and certainly the debate moderators, like on ABC, never asked her a question. Mark, if she's going to change her mind, if she's going to have this election in your conversion, why doesn't the media ask her, what is the basis of this? When did you change your mind? Was it five minutes ago? Why then did you support Biden throughout your entire last three and a half years?

1:05:10Why don't they ask her these questions? If you were part of the Biden administration, why do you volunteer to be the borders are? If you disagree with Joe Biden about these policies, when exactly did you change your mind? Those are the questions that she should be answering. Why would she answer those questions? Why don't you submit to an advertiser? No, those are the questions that you want so that you think you can put her on the defensive and have this whole information. No, look, you want to know. But let me just tell you what's important. Put yourself in the shoes. Let's just call this a business, right?

1:05:41And the business of this business is getting votes and winning this election. And you came in and the product that you originally had, New Coke failed, right? By this New Coke in this example. And you come in and you say, I'm bringing it back this is the new new coke and we're gonna test to see if that's working. Well, when you brought in Kamala Harris, she had no favorable ratings whatsoever. She was behind in all polling right where Joe Biden was. And now she's either even or ahead or a little bit behind in every single poll. And why do I bring it up? Because it means what she's doing is working.

1:06:20I think we actually agree. I think we actually have found a point to agree on, which is I think Kamala Harris is to sing whatever it takes to get elected. You could say the same thing about Jamie Joe Belief. Hold on, she stated her true belief years ago and throughout the Biden administration, which is she never believed the border was a problem. She thought the border wall, Trump's wall was un -American and medieval and she thought that I seem to be abolished. I think that was her true belief. Now, if it's not her true belief, I would like her to explain when she changed her belief and why the same way that JD Vance did.

1:06:49And I think the American people are entitled to know that. And I think if the media was doing its job, they'd be asking her those questions. She she's never been asked that Stephanie rule. Let's leave us interview do not ask that and the debate moderators do not ask that Let's just go outside of America for one second because mark Your Jewish your Jewish heritage. I would really like your opinion on What's happening outside of America? There was some crazy pictures over the last few weeks coming out from the Middle East There's still all this complications complicating stuff with China Now, where do you stand on all of these things?

1:07:25Where do you stand on the Mure Shimer Sacks, Jeffrey Sacks, kind of School of Logic that there's a military industrial accomplice that tends to just push us towards these war zones and these forever wars? Where do you just stand on those issues? And how do you think about that? I mean, honestly, I don't have enough information to give you a qualified response. I'm pro -Israel to the core, because I'm Jewish. I wish a man to I have us to the core. I think, you know, they're terrorists, they are terrorists. I want to see Israel to succeed. I want to see Israel succeed. I want to see the United States support them and help them in that.

1:08:03But, you know, when Israel was going into Gaza, I thought it was too blunt and instrument, but when they went after his balla, I thought they did the exact right way. And so, you know, I'm always only going to respond. You're going to want to opinion of this, yeah. And you, Crane? Yeah. Um, you, Crane, I don't want to see American blood spilled. And as long as there's a NATO and I agreed there should be a NATO, I'd rather see us spend money than put soldiers in harm's way. And so, um, does does the Harris campaign agree on that point? Or do they have a conversation? I haven't had that conversation with them.

1:08:35I know. Let, let me ask you just a point on arithmetic, which I think is the most important arithmetic we should all be talking about today is the first yesterday was the first day of the federal fiscal year. A fiscal year, right. And here's a little image for us to all look at together as a group. An image that everyone should wake up every morning in the United States and look at the first thing they do instead of looking at Twitter, they should look at the image that I'm sharing on the screen right now, which is federal debt in the United States. And on the first screen of you taking a bath.

1:09:08This is just first day on the first day of the new fiscal year federal debt jumped by $204 billion in one day The federal debt now stands at 35 .7 trillion dollars and The biggest challenge we have in the year ahead is that 10 trillion of the outstanding debt comes up for refinance It's gonna refinance it around 4 percent So we're gonna be adding another 300 billion dollars in new interest expense next fiscal year plus the Biden administration has proposed a $7 .2 trillion budget for next year, which will inevitably lead to another $2 trillion of deficit spending, which means that by the end of 2025, we could be staring at $40 trillion of federal debt.

1:09:52And if you do the math on that, at 4 % interest, it's 1 .6 trillion a year of interest expense a year, just on interest expense on the outstanding debt, which effectively begins to eclipse the entire federal budget very quickly and gives us no ability to maneuver to meet the needs of all the policy demands that are being described and shaped in all of these elections and all of these debates and all the bullshit that's going on is really not fundable. What does the Harris campaign say about the situation with respect to deficit spending and debt? And I don't know how high you can raise taxes and not cut spending to even make a dent in the challenge ahead without driving a massive recession.

1:10:34What is what do you think like the Harris versus the Trump campaigns kind of intentions are as we look at this abyss that we're now kind of jumping out. Yeah, I can't speak for them. I can only tell you the conversations I've had and what they've said to me whether or not they take these directions is completely up to them and I don't know, but I've said the exact same thing. They know that the the deficits are problem. It won't be a budget, a Biden budget. There's no Biden administration that happened. They've already come, you know, just the tax rates are completely different than the Biden budget proposes where there's no, you know, unrealized capital gains, et cetera.

1:11:10They went to 28 and 28%. So it's not going to be what was proposed by Biden. There's a limit on tax, basically, right? Like that, that people. Yeah, there's only, there's a point of diminishing in terms of raising taxes and then realize it, right? So when we talked about unrealized capital gains, and I gave him a thousand reasons why not? They're like, we already know this. Yeah, yeah. Now, to David's point, why don't they just come out and say it? Because the 1 % of high information voters don't know the difference of unrealized capital gains or not and don't care. The 99 % want to hear about the things that they're talking about.

1:11:40So that's why people like me can go out there and talk about it. But to your point, and the bigger point, David, David, that they realized that there's only a couple ways to reduce the deficit. it. One, you get inflation under control and that reduces interest rates and that's going to work in our favor. And I think that's happening now. If it's $1 .6 trillion, then if interest rates go below 4%, that saves a lot of money and probably the most you can save. They realized efficiency is an important element in her last speech in Pittsburgh. She talked about how long it took, it only took one year to build the Empire State Building that is crazy.

1:12:14There's too much friction and the government to be able to do building the right way. They're conversations with them about AI as a service and being able to optimize integrating artificial intelligence into all these processes so that they don't have to keep on hiring people. I don't think they're mindset. Again, I'm speaking for myself and my perspective of my conversations with them. I don't think their mindset is to just go out there and just cut a ton of people, but I do think the mindset is how can we implement technology to become more efficient so that we can provide more value to the citizens of this country at less cost.

1:12:51I think that's important to them. I think you're going to see a lot of reduction. I'm trying to think the best way to say she knows that technology is the ultimate driver of success and if she supports new technologies and you heard that again in Pittsburgh, she wants, she mentioned blockchain but more importantly, she mentioned AI and how AI is key to us being a dominant military, um, having our military be dominant and to have our economy grow because the other way to get results isn't just a slash and burn like a veck wants to do but to grow the economy and that there truly are ways to grow the economy without just more spending.

1:13:33But do you, yeah, do you support a Elon Musk going in? Like if you're saying shed regulatory burdens, shed inefficiency, improved productivity, don't we need an Elon Musk style model that Trump has talked about with Elon, send someone in and let's go fix the inefficiency across all of the administrative efforts. So there's two things. One, first of all, when you just cut, when you do a VEVIC, the VEVET type, just cut the Department of Education, right? Whatever it is, we don't know what Elon would actually do. Well, I think that triggers the recession because then you got a lot of people unemployed, right?

1:14:04Yeah, exactly right. And there's contracts and so that means the United States of America is If highlighted all these contracts with small businesses and medium -sized businesses, and maybe you want to put Doge in the Treasury, who knows, and that's how we make it all up. But you can't just scratch and burn to your point, Dave. I mean, it just won't work. And so what you can do, though, is introduce technology. We have yet to have a president that fully understands technology. I'm not here to tell you that Kamala Harris is a geek. She's not. But she understands the impact and she has a lot of people who truly are geeks around there, around her.

1:14:41And she truly believes that implementing technology is a way to improve efficiency. But the whole idea is you can't take the libertarian approach, that's ideological. You have to take a problem solving approach. How do you look at any specific problem we're trying to solve? How can you apply technology to that? I think you will get that from the Harris administration. As a pastor Donald just talking about the AI and how much energy it consumes Mark you You said of all the rules if there's a Harris administration you said you want to run the SEC I was just Just trolling Gary Gansler because it's fun to do Okay, so do you think just you and particularly wise Gensler has he done a particularly bad job?

1:15:25Are you just trolling are you just trolling David? I can't keep up with the troll. And I think I need to answer the troll. The troll that you where I agree with, Mark. Nested trolling. Nested trolling. No, so Mark is actually supporting Trump. He's just rolling sacks and coming on the show. He's been going on for weeks. I know he's not supporting Trump. But I tell you one one Republican that as I understand it, you are supporting is John Deaton, who is running against Elizabeth Warren in the Massachusetts Senate race. So I'm curious about this, because I think this is an area we could agree on.

1:15:57You're not sure. I mean, I don't know that. I didn't know that. That's pretty interesting. Yeah, I mean, I'm not a fan of Elizabeth Warrens. I talked to her about crypto. I mean, I understand her position. Her basic position is, you know, bad nation states use crypto to fund their operations, the bad stuff. And she just wants to throw the baby out with the bath water as opposed to using, you know, like I proposed a blacklist from OFAC that can be implemented in all kinds of s**t. I need to get into the details, right? But it just it wasn't going to happen. And so when John not just being pro crypto, but you know his background his character I thought really was a positive and so even before he got through his hat and his ring I was talking to him supporting him giving him feedback and helping him.

1:16:39So again, I'm not a Democrat I have no problem and I think John Deaton will be better for the country better third the citizens of Massachusetts than Elizabeth Warren would be what would be common sense crypto regulation. Obviously, you don't want people milking people out of their money. Yeah. So what would be a way to balance accredited investors versus the populace, non -sophisticated investors? If that's even a thing. So I've got a company called... People running a muck, you know? Right. So I've got a company called lazy .com. And like if you go to lazy .com slash M Cuban, you'll see all my NFTs.

1:17:12And all it is is a way to display your NFTs. It's hardly makes any money. but I wanted to see if we could release a token. So first thing I did was I had one of our people called the SEC and say, hey, what steps do we have to take to release a token? They went through this whole regular rule about getting securities lawyers and this and that. There's no way a company with $100 ,000 in rent you's gonna be able to afford to do that. So then I said, okay, I'm gonna go right to the SEC .gov and see about Reg A and see if I could just fill out the forms myself and just see what. So you start filling in name address and then you get to the type of business and the only category is other.

1:17:48And once you follow that other connection, there's just no way to put the round out, there's no way to make it work. You can't make it work. And I actually said that correctly to Gary Gensler. And so to answer your question, you have to make it easy to follow the rules. And in terms of everything being a security, Gensler says everything applies to how we, right? There's a how we rule and everything. But the reality is there's also a rule that came after, a rule that came after, called Reeves, Reeves versus Ernst & Young that had to do with interest. And if you think about, if you guys ever shorted stocks or done stock loan, where you can make some money off of stock loan.

1:18:29A borrow, yeah. Yeah, so what you know, you can make one of your shares of stocks available to the borrower and get paid a vig, right? You might get 10 or 12%. And so doing that is the exact same thing as loaning out Bitcoin for somebody else to borrow. And there's no, they don't call that a security. So I ask you against that. If it's not a security to loan out a share of stock, and why is it a security to loan out a Bitcoin to somebody else? That didn't have an answer. And the point there is he has an approach that is regulation through litigation. He's going to sue you first, ask questions later, and hope that the result of that litigation becomes a rule that everybody else has to follow.

1:19:17I would really say, was that? Well, I was gonna say, wouldn't a more common sense approach here be to say, if we had an accreditation test, a sophisticated investor test, we've talked about it here on the program. What would you do? Yeah, Mr. Wins. Well, there's not one for the populist to take like a driver's license where they could say, hey, I've taken this test, I understand diversity, diversification, et cetera. If you were able to register with the securities in exchange commission for your company for the release of your token, then depending on how many people you're trying to sell it to, you would only be able to do that with qualified investors.

1:19:52But what happens is Gary Gensler is making it so difficult to register and what he should be doing is saying, here's the bright line regulations. If FTX wants to loan out all their Ethereum, you have to do what they did in Japan. You have to have 95 % collateral and 95 % of anything needs to be put in cold storage. If he had followed the same rules for crypto that Japan did, FTX would still be in business. Sandbake McFreak might still be in jail, but FTX, three hours capital, they'd still be in business because he did the wrong thing. Now, I've literally talked to Kamla Harris at lunch about the specific topic of regulation through litigation.

1:20:32And as a lawyer, she got it immediately and she knows it's a problem and they know and she's even mentioned in a one of her speeches That that's something that they're going to deal with Can I get your reaction to this story from the Washington reporter? There was a the story. I don't know if it's true or not But no, Washington reporters so According to some Senate sources Kamala Harris was considering Gensler for treasury secretary. I would call them Okay, what's the watch? She can report that or I have an after about any position at all, but what I was told and look, talking to people who are like always in the same room with her.

1:21:10The response to me about Gary Gensler was, have you heard anybody say anything positive? That's intentional. Well, I mean, the reason he's in that role is because he is Elizabeth Warren's ally and She has been enormously powerful during the Biden administration. And if you heard her say, Mark, Mark, boil it all up. Like, what's your general sense of her? Like, how should we all think about her? So here's the way I look at Kamla, right? She is open -minded. She's smart. She does the work. She digs in and learns. She's ethical. She's honest. She cares. She wants to bring the country to the middle.

1:21:50She knows that when she was far left, that might have been great for the state of California. but it doesn't solve the problems of the United States of America today. And that's why you've seen her go to the middle. And that is truly, I know David, you might not believe this. It is truly honest and through and through her. When she gave, give speeches now. She says, I'll take ideas from independence. I'll take them from Republicans. I don't care. We have a lot of problems to solve in this country. I would be shocked if she wins. She talks to Elon Musk. If Elon would talk to her. She doesn't care where the idea is.

1:22:25She interviews with unfriendly or challenging folks. This seems to be like, you know, a really valid criticism. I mean, let the Trump here, we've had these events here. Yeah. I'm just very shy. Yeah. I don't disagree. Look, it is not, but why does she hide, do you think? I don't think she's hiding. There's two elements there. One, I think she understands the assignment, which is to win the election. And the best way to reach the most number of people and get them to change their mind is not the 1 % of people who are high information voters. It's all the people who are showing up at rallies and screaming and yelling.

1:22:59Those are the people who's mind. She has changed so far and that's how she's caught up and who she wants to change. And that's where she's putting her focus. And two, and this is really honest, she has too long a wind up in answering every single question. And that makes interviews difficult. She wants to inspire everybody with everything that she answers and tries to get people all excited about what she's going to do. And so she takes too long to get to that. If you cut out the windups, her answers aren't so bad. Her answers are actually legit, but that windup makes it seem like the whole word salad thing.

1:23:36You know, I think it's relevant that she's born to a middle -class family as the answer to. And I said she's got to drop that. Yeah, but on the flip side, I mean, if you list, I literally, because I knew I'd be talking to you guys, I listened to Donald Trump speech and Milwaukee. Did any of you guys listen to that? Yeah. I was there. You were there. You were there. Sex. That was that. No, no, no, no, no, not walking. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm not going to see, not going to see. I'm talking to you, say it this week. I'm talking to you, say it this week. Two days ago, two days ago, I'm talking to you, I'm talking to you, say it this week.

1:24:03So Kamla might have a long wind up. Donald Trump has an eternal wind up where all he does is get to his slogans and talking points and then talks gibberish the rest of the time. Let me fill you in and some of the Jim. You're talking about a rally, you will speak extemporaneously for over an hour. Yeah, but what he says should matter. I'll take that any day over someone on a teleprompter for 19 minutes. But David, so what you're saying, it doesn't matter what he says? No, I think it does matter, but I think that I've watched enough Trump rallies, including his speech at the convention where I was there listening to understand what issues he stands for.

1:24:39Okay, well tell me what issues he stands for when he diminishes Jimmy Carter who just has this hundredth birthday. Tell me what issues he's staying. I haven't heard him say good things and bad things about you. Okay, so let's put that aside. Everyone makes fun of Jimmy Carter. Okay, so let's put that aside. Let's just say it is what it is, even though it's a side. We'll go that, put that under the character. He started talking about apartments with no windows. That builders under Kamala Harris are gonna start being forced to build apartments with no windows. I haven't heard that, but yeah. Yeah, oh, I listened to this today.

1:25:09And then he also said that - what Trump says out of context to make it seem a lot more. If you listen to what he says and you don't try to, you know, shade it in the worst possible way, a lot of what he says makes sense. I believe that if you want to know why I support Trump, number one, the border, okay. Unlike Kamala Harris' election year conversion, he has been very consistent ever since he came down the escalator that we needed to have a wall. And that really that was just the first part of our board of security. We need to have a border. Democrats not just come up pretty much all the Democrats fought them on that for the last eight years to the point where we got to understand the border point thing.

1:25:51So you get that. Okay. So I think that he and only he has credibility in the selection on that issue. Number two, on the foreign wars, we talked about this. I mean, I don't think his record on foreign policy was perfect, but it is true that he did not start any new foreign wars. Joe Biden and and and the set no What word did you buy? The Ukraine war we could have He invaded Ukraine. I've argued on the show many times They are He provoked it. Okay, so you're assigning whatever to Joe Biden I'm not He forced Putin to invade Ukraine. Come on stop acting dumb You understand that we try to convert Ukraine into a giant NATO base that was the Russians said over and over again that that was a red line to them.

1:26:40It was the brightest of all red lines. But to blame it on Biden's own crazy. And Bill Burns, our current CIA director, said it best if the brightest of all red lines for the Russian elite, not just Putin, okay? Okay. That has been a consistent, Russia, you think you could contribute 20 years? And moreover, hold on a second, even if you don't believe, even if you disagree with me. And you say that Biden didn't provoke it. We had the chance to end the war in its first month with a deal in Istanbul, okay? And you know, the mainstream media denied it for a year. It was only an alternative media. And then finally, the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal wrote stories about it.

1:27:13It is the truth. Victoria Newland just admitted it. We could have agreed to a deal in the first month. The Biden administration shot that down. That is why we have the war going in Ukraine. Okay, so let's just say that's a fact. Remember, and that war is being - The Lorsky has also got to be destructive. And by the way, if you care about Israel, hold on, Mark, if you care about Israel, you should be really concerned about the fact that the United States has significantly depleted it's stockpiles of weapons and artillery ammunition in Ukraine on a war that is futile. We send the Russians a money.

1:27:41We send them all. David, we didn't give them anything new. We send them all. Israel gets the 100 Gary Leads. 155, 155 millimeter artillery shells are 155 millimeter artillery shells. It's not about new or old. Okay. I get the Glen Gary Leads. Israel gets the Glen Gary Leads. Right. And look, on the top of that, Selinsky is only so much air defense. There's only so many Patriots to go around. All right. We don't make enough of that. We don't make enough of that. You agree that Zelensky could have said yes to that deal? The one in Istanbul. Yeah. He could only say yes to it if the US supported it.

1:28:14And instead, we encourage him to fight. We threw cold water on that deal. We blocked it. We should have told Zelensky, you know what, just make that deal. We don't need another war right now. Okay, this NATO thing's not happening anyway. Okay, because we're not letting Zelensky into NATO. know. Well, no, the guy from Norway, the guy who just took over NATO says otherwise, that we're not going to let in. Zelensky was just here in the US last week with his so -called victory plan. You know what his victory plan was? Let us into NATO immediately so that you can fight our war for us. Or you know, I get that with the Biden administration to its credit, rejected that.

1:28:49Okay. I give Biden credit for that. The good news is Biden is not running in this election. Whenever it's inconvenient, you want to pretend that Harris has nothing to do with this illustration. I'm giving you a reality comment. I'm giving you a reality comment. When I've had people who work for me and started, when I started their own companies like Schemaat and Facebook, right? They're not, people have different opinions. The people who work for me do what I say. Period and a story. Maybe they do a better one. So she was just following orders basically, then you're in person. She is. Do you think JD Vance is going to do anything contrary to Donald Trump if he wins?

1:29:23There's an abundant record. I know what JD Vance stands for. There was an abundant rather. That's not the question. That's not the question. Heros has a senator before she even. That's not the question. She was the question. She was rated the most liberal member of the Senate by God for her. But why did you answer Mark's question? It is. The question is, what is she really stand for? What do you know? He has to know. And what's your question? Sorry. What's your question? What JD Vance ever go against Donald Trump? No, obviously, I understand that a VP cannot go against the president. That's it in the nutshell.

1:29:52That's it. Period. Now we can cut half the episode out. Now move it on. Hold on a second. That fact does not prove that Kamala Harris has a different policy than Joe Biden. Whenever it's inconvenient for you to admit that you're doing the exact thing you're saying that I'm doing. You're trying to position her so that everything from the Biden administration is she has ownership of it. And what I'm saying is just look at what she's doing. Look at what she's saying. You're, you're, you're, you're, see, here's the, here's the Trump the arranger. Here's the antithesis of the Trump the arrangement syndrome, right?

1:30:26You tell, whenever Donald Trump says something stupid, everybody explains it for him. When Kamala Harris says something smart, everybody tries to explain why it's stupid and not true. What does it mean smart? I mean, seriously, what's the last thing she said that was smart? Just don't not curious. Jason, I want to fact check the window list. By the way, the window list, the window list thing marked just so you know, because Nick shared it with us. It's an architectural digest just article, apparently Eric Adams, the mayor of New York, proposed windowless bedrooms as a way to change the building codes to incentivize more apartments being built.

1:31:00I think it's also to fix the housing crisis. Converting the problem with converting the plates in commercial. This is the gaslighting. They try to make some. Well, I mean, he also, I mean, Trump wise, constantly, let's find out that there's a real basis to his comment. In some cases, he just lies. Anyway, Trump can't ever explain it himself. Why is it that the guy that you like can never come out and say hey, you know, this was crazy This is the most ridiculous thing Eric Adam suggested everybody else has got to do the research and explain what Trump really means Because he is losing it he is The only way is You believe in cognitive client sex?

1:31:38No, I think he's very sharp. We met personally, so let's wrap let's wrap the politics section with just a final question because No, I have a question. Yeah, let's leave. Mark very very point a question. Why did you sell the maps at this moment? So I sold three quarters of not the whole thing. I still on the 7 .7 % for a couple of reasons. One, when I first bought in in 2000, I was the tech guy in the NBA. I was the media guy, you know, broadcast .com just sold it. HD net just created the very first ever high definition television network, I had every edge in every angle. Now fast forward 24 years later, in order to sustain growth to be able to compete with the new collective bargaining agreement, you have to have other sources of revenue.

1:32:26And so you see other teams and all scores for that matter, you know, talking about casinos, talking about creating, doing real estate development. That's just not me. I wasn't going to put up $2 billion to, to get an education on building. That's part one. Part two is my kids are now 15, 18, and 21. And over the next 10 years, that's a lot of pressure on them to have to take over the team or deal with the trust, God forbid something that happens to me, deal with the trust fund issues. And so by selling three quarters of it, I took all that pressure off of them because you guys see the hate. I mean, Jason can tell you all day long about Jimmy Dolan.

1:33:09He's MIA right now and the nix are doing great. Do you think valuations peak mark? I don't think they've peaked yet because it for the reasons I just mentioned, if we're able to build a Venetian type casino and Dallas with an American young center in the middle of it, the valuation is $20 billion. But I own 27 % of that. Well, and you bought it for under 300 and you sold it for $3 .55. Yeah, just not everybody's keeping the records. I think Chimathi bought a 300 and sold it $3 billion as well. So congratulations, boy. Let me ask you a question about that. When you did it, did you just do it for fun and it worked out to be a great business or did you think it was going to be a great business?

1:33:48No, I did it for fun. So, you know, this is a great question, David. From 2000 to 2010, the actual valuations went down. And in 2010, we were not even able to sell the New Orleans hornets. The league had to buy it. Right. And it was right around then that the six years got purchased for the same price I paid. And the NBA, salary cap is a reflection of the total revenues of the NBA. There were multiple years when the salary cap went down, meaning our overall revenues went down. which was great for me competitively because I would buy first round picks for $3 million. I would buy players from other teams that couldn't afford to run their teams.

1:34:33And that's why we went on this 15 year streak of never having to lose the season and winning 50 games in a row for 10 years in a row. So it worked for me competitively, but that just shows you that things can change. And so I did do what's that? What TV do? So when cable and satellite and over the air became very competitive and they started to grow and subscriptions grew to 130 million people or subscriptions, that's a lot of money. And they had to compete for content so that there would be less churn. And I literally remember in 2001 when we first signed the first cable deal, NBC had the deal and they were going back to David Stern saying and we need fewer games.

1:35:20And I sat there and one of our board of governors meetings and I'm like, look, TBS just signed a deal to pay a billion dollars per episode for repeats of sign felt. If you do that on evaluation per hour, ours is fresher, our ratings are actually better. Don't think of it as less product will lead to more demand. It's the exact opposite. We're so inexpensive, we can charge more and that led to the next TV deal and that led to the explosion. Mark, you have a lot of fingers and a lot of pots and other businesses. You have a really important thing you're doing in drugs that you may want to talk about.

1:35:57Yeah, thanks for bringing that up to me. If you look at the next 10 years of your life, so you're 66, between now 14 years, between now in 80, 81, what's your goal? Like, what are you working on? What are the things that you care about? Where are you putting your capital? What are you trying to do? The number one's family, obviously, but beyond that is CosmosDrugs .com. We're f***ing up the health industry like you wouldn't believe if you've seen. Just explain it for the folks that don't understand it. So let's just say guys, our age, or you guys are close enough to my age, we use a drug called Tadilla Fil, right?

1:36:30For those of you who know what it is. And you, it's generic to the Alice. I was wearing the five of your guys. I was just saying that. We got a dumb book on this from Sack. So you've heard from Sacks, right? Are you a Cialis or a Viagra guy, Sacks? What's going on here? It ain't even. For both. So it's you see, Alice just seems better value for money. Wait, what are those? What are those? Never heard of them. Sacks like, what is that? Never heard of them. He's turned red, actually. So if you go to costplusrugs .com and you put into Dillafilm, when it comes up, we show you our actual cost. And then we market up by 15 % and if you buy it via mail order, then we add $5 for a pharmacy fee to review everything and $5 for shipping and handling.

1:37:16The net result of that is you guys have a general idea of what the price is now from all the ads. You can buy a 90 pack of Tadilla fill for about $9 .90 plus shipping and handling. So for less than the price of a bag of M &Ms, you could put up a little cup or jar next fear of either M &Ms or even this website. It's a tremendous amount of money right back. Nine dollars for 90 days. Right, we're like, let's go. We're at your mom. That seems free. It's a great deal. You apply that to the 2500 drugs that we have. And now all of a sudden, you see what's wrong with these things called pharmacy benefit managers and the problem of an industry that's opaque.

1:38:01And I'll give you another example. There are drugs that are called specialty generics. And the only thing special about them, they're actually just pills, is that they were traditionally more expensive. So there's a drug called a matineeb, which is a chemotherapy drug. If you just walk into a CVS as an example, a big, big pharmacy, and you have your cash payer or a high deductible payer and you just needed it, they'll charge you anywhere from $200 to $2000. You have no idea what you're going to pay. If you get it from cost plus drugs depending on the number and the strength, it might be 21 to $30.

1:38:36There's another drug, Drakshodopa. One of my buddies came to me and said, I'm losing my insurance, they want to charge me. The pharmacy wants to charge me $10 ,000 a quarter for this medication called Drakshodopa. All right, Lannan, let me check. Initially, $64 a month, now it's in the $20 per month because as our cost goes down, we pass it on. And that's just changed the industry because think about what happens when you get a prescription. What's the pushback? What's the pushback? I mean, what is the pushback you get? Because that's... No, it's counter to the trend, right? So is it just infinite growth or how does the industry respond when you create that price differential?

1:39:13So it's the innovator's dilemma. They can't just give up all of this margin. So most of the business of pharmacy benefit management, not most, so big chunk of the businesses comes from corporations, right? And self -insured companies. days. And they go to them and they put together the thing called the formulary, which is all the drugs, right? That's available to them. And they say, we're going to price this so that we get rebates and we'll pass on the rebates we get from the manufacturers to you. Now they say they're going to pass on 100 % of that rebate, they don't. They create all these subsidiaries and everything that skim, 10 % or whatever off the top.

1:39:49But they know that they can continue working with these companies because the core competency of a CEO is not to know their healthcare costs. And literally for any CEOs that are out there, audit your PBM contract. Audit it right now. I promise you that PBM is gonna tell you you don't need to audit. And then you can say, we wanna add cost plus drugs to our pharmacy supply contract. And they're gonna say, no, you're not allowed to do it. Because they know our prices are so much lower that it's disrupting their industry. So they're - Are you doing this as like a for -profit business or are you losing money on this and doing it just to help society with what you're playing here.

1:40:26Right now, I'm losing money. And most of that was because we built a factory, a whole robotics -driven factory that manufactures sterile injectables that are in short supply. So now, with the hurricane, we're using our robotics to switch over to sterile water of all things and some other things so that we can manufacture it and get it to them at a reasonable price as opposed to price -cali gene, which Kamla that's talked often about. So, you know, because there will be price -caliasing and pharmacy and we're here to be an alternative. So to answer your question, I've spent a whole lot of money on these robotics and putting this together, but our path is hockey stick, double triple hockey stick.

1:41:07And so we're taking business from them and I think the traditional legacy companies and the insurance. But did something happen to you or somebody around you that motivated you to go after the PBMs which is his clinical business analysis of like this just doesn't make sense and it can be done better. So both. What happened was I got an email from my partner co -founder, Dr. Alex Ashmeansky, and he wanted to create a compounding pharmacy in Denver that made drugs that were in short supply because there's always for whatever reason some generic drug that is on a shortage list. And I'm like, you're thinking too small.

1:41:42And this was right around the time that the farmer bro was going to jail. And I asked him, you know, how is it that this dude buys up a one -year supply of dareprim, the drug ebought, and just jacks it up? And how does that happen? And he goes, it just happened. I'm like, well, let me do some homework. And dig in. And the reason was obvious. The industry was completely opaque. The first line in every single pharmacy contract and healthcare contract for that matter is, you're not allowed to talk about it. You are restricted from I'm talking about this to anybody, anybody at all. So we had a completely opaque market.

1:42:15So we put together the website called costplusdrugs .com, but really the smartest thing that we did and it was unintentional in terms of impact, we created a full price list. So you can get our 2500 drugs, the actual price list and we release it every week because we're on a roll now where we've had since last year ago, more than a year ago, every weekday we've lowered a price on a drug. And so we just put that out and what's happened as a result is now companies can just get the price list and Do comparisons to approximately what they're paying because their pbm won't tell them exactly what they're paying I have one suggestion for you there mark you can make this a nonprofit when you sell them abs You could donate money to this then like six seven years later You could flip it into a four profit and take a public There's like a strategy here And this could work out well.

1:43:05Exactly the point. And you know, Sam Altman is an investor, and I'm just kidding. And so we put out this priceless. And all of a sudden, Harvard Medical and Vanderbilt and all these research institutes took our pricing and compared it to what Medicare was paying for the same drugs. And it was like, well, it's better. This is what I was going to ask you because CMS is now in power to negotiate. Yeah, and this is sort of maybe ties together with the governmental efficiency and just do the obvious right thing, but Shouldn't they just work with you as an example and and why don't they are and it's just started they are right so Here again, I can't speak for her to say what she's going to do, but here was the conversation I've had with her team when it comes to reducing out -of -pocket costs to deal with inflation what I've told them is is one key area that impacts most families at some level.

1:44:04Nobody dies healthy is the cost of healthcare and pharmaceuticals. And by working, by requiring transparency in all contracts, signed by anybody anywhere in terms of pricing, you are going to see the same impact on across the board pricing of a decrease of 30, 40 percent. And so all of that is going to reduce out -of -pocket spending for everybody, reduce government spending for everybody and have a net positive impact. They see that. Have you had that conversation with the Republicans as well so that I mean, it seems it makes sense for everybody. I had to converse a similar conversation like as I mentioned you in the White House when I went there and adjusted and resonate.

1:44:43Boys, any final questions for Mark here as we Elon and Y troll Elon and any of that good stuff? Well, I want to know about are you investing in AI technology? Where are you investing in the stack? How do you think about that? Are you an active venture investor, Mark? I mean, I know we've obviously done some stuff together, but I'm curious how you look at stuff. So now I've kind of slowed down. I invested in GROC with schmatz, right? Schmatz is like, yeah, let's go, right? And he can tell you all the reason. I think we all have a piece of that now. Okay, we'll give it some, yeah. So you guys have the whole story, right?

1:45:13And so I think that's great, picks and shovels, I think are important. I think the problem in this happens with all new technologies is we're seeing the gold rush right now where everybody calls everything AI, particularly with agents. And I think you can put all these vertical agents together to do all these different things, but agents are just going to be a feature not a product. Because inherently in AI, as it advances and gets smarter, then it's going to be able to create its own agents for its users and go forward from there. So I've been really hesitant now because you're not going to invest in the foundational models.

1:45:47I mean, through a fund, I have part of OpenAI, but and some others, but that's just so expensive. You don't know who the winners are going to be, but yet everything that happens is going to be a derivative of that somehow. What's your business intuition tell you about that, actually? So you have this crazy capital race between closed and open. How do you think that plays out? I think there are going to be tens of millions of models. everybody's going to have a model. Your kids are going to have models. Their little invisible friend is going to be a model that's in a teddy bear that they grow up with.

1:46:24So there's going to be an unlimited number of models. But we don't know who the winners are going to be to host those models. I have no idea. And if you go back over the history of technology, that's always the case. Everybody, there's always a race to be the winner for the foundation, whether it was band, whether it was networking, whether it was whatever it's streaming, and everybody battles it out. And so it's okay. And for me now, I'm just like, let me just wait. Let me just say. You think there's going to be where a chance at job displacement, what do you think of like this universal basic income?

1:46:59Cataclysmics. I think it's the exact opposite. Okay. So I think that in order to train a model, you need access to information. and the internet ain't what it used to be in terms of being a source of information. And so IP is becoming more valuable. You're not, I think everybody but this time expected all the foundational models to have all this healthcare information. But if I'm Mayo Clinic, I'm not giving Microsoft or Google or OpenAI my IP because that's what brands me. And so there's going to be a lot of money available there. And I think that that has got to be a way to, there's got to be a way to figure that out, right?

1:47:42First, how does IP work and how is it distributed? And then how are we using it just in general? We really don't know how we're going to implement it or use it or what the interface is going to be. And all that will be figured out by some kids somewhere. So maybe just a wrap mark. So these these next center 15 years is it about doubling down on these current things, making Cosplus thing huge, like harvesting essentially or are you going to do new things or just the ball or getting high? When I'm gone, I wanted to say, Mother f**k her, he did it. She was expensive when we were sick and inexpensive no more.

1:48:18And to me, that's the ultimate mission. Now, it's fun to learn AI and build models and do all that stuff, right? But when it's all said and done, to me, that's where you want your mark. Let me ask you a final final question. That's great. We've done a reality show, just retired from that, cashed out of three quarters of the Mavericks check, did that, helping people with this cost plus drugs and saving people money. It's a pretty noble mission. Kind of adds up to, you're gonna run for president. No, there's no way. Why not? It would be a great thing to do. You've checked off all the boxes. Why wouldn't you?

1:48:57It's too old now. Yeah, he's not talking about art. 20 years younger than Trump and Biden. My videos wrong. I was thought puppet in my spare time. I changed it. Four years from now, eight years from now, would you, would you even consider it or if you were going to consider it? Yeah, right to our error, right? How would you process making that decision? My kids hated the idea. My wife hated the idea. They want, you know, it's hard enough for them to have a normal life as it is. And that just takes it to a whole another level. Plus you'd have to run as a Republican because Democrats hate billionaires like you.

1:49:27No, actually, they're Bloomberg, right? You saw what I mean, Bloomberg. Yeah, but that's a hundred million dollars. You should have made it to the first question of the first debate, boom. Elizabeth Warren knocked them out. But let me just tell you this, and we don't have to talk more about politics. Parties don't exist anymore. They don't. There's fundraising vehicles, and they have procedures in place, but this is Donald Trump. He took over the Republican Party. They do what he says, and Kamla Harris has learned from Donald Trump, give him credit. She has learned what worked for him. They're not stupid.

1:49:57She has learned that she has got to be that personality that takes over, and they've got to do what she says. You haven't heard a word from Bernie or Elizabeth Warren, and that's not unintentional. She is doing it her way. Now, whether or not you agree what she's doing or her approach to win, everybody can argue, and that's what makes a market. But there are no political parties anymore. And the idea of the ideology of a party on the Democratic side is no more in place than on the Republican side. All right. So with that, my Nick's got a shot this year. What do you think? Yeah, I thought the trade was great.

1:50:29I thought you think that was great. Yeah, I think that's great. I mean, he's a little on the defense, but he's, but with KP, right, that's what they're doing. How do they match up with Boston? So KP and cat match up. And that's why we got a shot. You're saying there's a chance. My Nick is my get there. I'm saying you and Jim Kerry have a lot in common. There's a chance. All right everybody. This has been another amazing episode Mark and we'll see you all next time bye bye Thanks guys. That was awesome. They'll give you instructions and I was loading out. I'll see you a game soon Yeah, you guys are awesome cheers And I don't mind arguing Dave.

1:51:07I love to argue this stuff right now I know I know look I give you credit your fun to talk to I really couldn't argue with and you obviously don't tell you it personally and I appreciate that and Yeah, I give you credit for having fun with it. I know too many depressed billionaires, so I give you I give you a lot of credit Yeah, I don't get that but you know what if you are if you were When you were poor you're When you're rich right and and just doesn't change anything I was hoping you we talked about Elon That's an exciting largely well we could still go there. Where's Jacob? We can still go there you can ask the question of you all right two of my besties, oh, last 25 years, you and Elon.

1:51:43Is this, you guys just goofing on each other? You got an issue with Elon that's sincere or is it just playful, fun trolling? So two things, one, as an entrepreneur, Elon's like the shit of the shit of the shit, right? Yeah. I'm a huge fan. What he's been able to accomplish is insane. It's incredible. I would never diminish anything he's done as an entrepreneur. as a Twitter user, he's a f***** troll. And I mean, he just trolls, to troll, to troll. And every good troll deserves a foil, right? Somebody to troll back. And it's just so easy and so much fun. Now, you know, I get some of the underlying principles, I think, at least in my mind, like when he talks about...

1:52:25What do you think about the first amendment principle that he's doing here of like radically changing Twitter from like it's pretty controlled to, hey, anything goes? I think that's a fear of losing users. So I think that within the conservative community, they are more joiners and heavier social media users. Participants, yeah. Participants. So they subscribe to more things. They listen to more podcasts. They're more active. And I think you recognize that. And that was a fundamental underpinning of why. He kind of Connected to them on the free speech thing because he still has its limits obviously It's his platform and what he doesn't want doesn't get shown so I think that's why and I can't blame him I wish you would call me I'd help him on on his his revenue and all that and then I think on the immigration side Here's my theory you guys can tell me if you agree or disagree I Don't think he's anti immigration like he says you know anti -legal immigration where anybody who's in the country should be deported.

1:53:36I think as an immigrant himself, and I'm second generation, you guys are immigrants at some level, we all are. But I think as an immigrant himself, he thinks that the number of illegal immigrants in this country and the hate that's pushed towards them carries over to legal immigrants, including himself. And I think he believes that by diminishing the illegal or the non -citizens in this country and asking for their removal, it improves the standing of the legal immigrants, including himself. And so that's kind of my theory on both of those things. Interesting. Yeah. It's certainly a different place.

1:54:18Honestly, I don't think you need much of a theory to explain Elon's use because he's just so transparent about what he believes. I clearly believe that his core conviction and the reason he bought Twitter X is because he wanted to unlock it as a free speech platform. Yeah, I don't think so I don't know how much more money he can lose in pursuit of that. But see here's why here's why I disagree You don't take other people's money to do that If he put it off he knew he didn't know that he would get boycotted by all these advertisements He knew he knew that But I think he went in, opened eyes, carried the sink in the door to run it with some improvements operationally, which he did a great job of.

1:55:00And to actually - And taking out a huge amount of the cost structure, which he did. Jason, I were there on the first day. The first day he took over, there was an organized boycott of advertisers. They called him anti -Semitic, which is ridiculous, before he even had a chance to do the run - You know, I've heard from the thing about that site. So I've heard from a lot of those folks. And it's not so much, when you talk about free speech, free speech applies to advertisers as well. They get to associate with whoever they want to no matter what. So there are. Unless there's a collusive effort going on to sort of organize those.

1:55:37No, and I get that organization that dissolved immediately, so there weren't. But look, I get from my own self, right? I don't understand why you won't give him credit for believing in free speech. That's clear. No problem with free speech. Look, I've always said people like get rid of the anti -Semitic people. You get anti -Semitic tropes. I get, you know, zillions of anti -Semitic tropes, you know, in my replies. Just the non -stop. I mean, I'm not white. You know, my grandparents changed the name from Chabinsky to Cuba, not even intentionally. And so it's always your real name is Chabinsky White.

1:56:08There's just the hate there is insane. And my attitude has always been, I want to know who the morons are. I have no problem with them still being allowed on the platform, but the trade -off is for advertisers. They don't want to be associated with that. There is no upside for being on Twitter right now or X on right now, and you add to that the porn. Kids 13 years old can go on that site, and you can find any insane thing you want on X right now. And that also is a problem for advertisers.

1:56:43That's you're willing to accept that. I don't think he realized just how deep users will go in order to use their free speech. And I think that really surprised him. And so that's why I don't think that he bought it specifically for free speech because I think he's always one of the things I really admire. I don't know. I mean, he said he said before he bought it that he was going to open it up as a free speech platform. And that's fine. But hold on, this is why the left immediately started boycotting him before he even changed one policy. Jay, Jay, come help me out. You were there. The first freaking day.

1:57:14I know for a fact that this was a free speech mission for him. I do think, you know, multiple things can be true. Mark, you are correct that if you have spicy content, advertisers don't want anything to do with it and they have choices. And it's also one of the smaller platforms that have choices that have more scale so that makes it even easier. And it's also true that they're boycotting him and specifically targeting him. But all these things are happening at the same time. That's fair. And I think when you look at what he's done there, we'll look at it historically as this place that was very controlled and clean and owned by the press and the elites became this chaotic thing, but also ultimately the one place where at scale you cannot be canceled.

1:58:00And if you look at cancellation as a concept, the number one place to get canceled was Twitter. You said something even slightly off, man, they came down on you, they destroyed you. And now that we got rid of cancel culture and people can say what they believe and people can make them a stay. I don't know why it's necessary to find. I do think it's, I don't know why. I don't know why. We just finished that thought. I do think that that will be looked at as a beautiful thing that he gave to society as a gift and it will be looked at as a really challenged business because it was an ad business that lost its advertising base.

1:58:30And Apple and Disney have choices. I don't see the need here to look past or to look for an ulterior motive in what Elon's doing. Elon believes in free speech It's very clear. He's run the platform that way and it's cost and money So what else could the motivation be except his principles? But he was also addicted to it. I can tell you that as the person who got it No, but that's not why he's running this Free speech by me giving my counter to that you know better than I do Why are we even having this debate? Who cares? I mean, I'm just sure I think it's running. Yeah, I mean, it was a free speech platform.

1:59:04Yeah, and then that's fine. Obviously, it's his choice. That that's free speech by Definitely actually, actually, let's let me to me this debate is kind of pointless, but let's let's talk about actually the the issue. There's a new story this week where open AI just raised was a six billion. Yep, 157. evaluation. They originally started that enterprise with 50 million or so from Elon. It was a nonprofit. Then they became a for profit. Now there's a report saying that they're telling investors in this round that they can't invest in any other AI companies. So they're acting like, I mean, they've gone from nonprofit philanthropy to piranha for profit company.

1:59:45That's pretty sharp. Alba. Yeah. Yeah. Sharp. Alba. Sam said he wasn't going to take compensation. Now he's getting compensation. Yep. 10 billion. I mean, what do you think about this? I mean, look, it's their company. They get to do what they want. Period. They're free. Pretense is. I mean, if they don't, but don't invest. I mean, it's just invest. He gave him a donation. No, no, no, no, which leads to something I want to say very positive about Elon. Put aside his genius and coming up and running these companies. The one thing I respect the most about Elon Musk and he does more than anybody I've ever seen and that is he goes all in.

2:00:22He doesn't just, you know, he takes every cent he has and he believes in it and he goes all mother f***ing in. He never edges his back at all. Until Twitter, right? That's why I say, you know, he brought in investors, you know, he brought investors to Tesla and everything, but initially he went all in himself. You know, I think with Twitter, I think he was kind of surprised, but going back to open AI, I wouldn't do business with people like that. And there are people who just look for what they think is the next big thing. And I certainly could have given money, didn't give them money. I said one of our funds that I'm in, did give them money originally, didn't give them money another time.

2:01:02To me, that's just wrong. And that catches up to you. When people f*** over investors and whatever, It always comes back. Carmer is a bitch in business too. Now, you know, Gemini with Google, I've done a lot of stuff with them. Notebook is insanely good. Gemini 1 .5 is insanely good. Meta as open source and what they're doing is getting better and better. There's nothing that says that open AI is going to win. Nothing at all. And so I don't feel bad about what they're doing. And to me, it tells me they're more scared than anything by trying to restrict what people are doing. Yep, that's a super positive.

2:01:41It says it's more a reflection of Sam than anything else is right is what you're saying. Yep. Well, I mean, that would be reflected in the fact that so many people who are the co -founders have left. Yeah, that's a really big red flag because this thing is gonna change the world. Yeah, I know all the co -founders leave. I heard 40 of the 44 co -founders left. Yeah, the original employees. I mean, I know that's true, but that's the opposite. And then if you, well, I mean, if you also think about this business, Chimoff and where it's headed, sorry, they're right. They were 34 co -faciliters. No, I was, around the dollar truck.

2:02:14I'm having a memory of things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, but I mean, if you, if you, we did a joke about it last week, but if you just look at the competition set that they're up against, they're losing five billion a year, they're making three and a half, they put this thing at 150 billion, it's 40 times, 50 times revenue, you to fill in that valuation on a price sales basis, you know, it's kind of crazy. Here's the one thing that I'll say. And I think Mark said this in a different way, but I'll just, I don't think you can underestimate how companies like Google, Microsoft, Facebook, Apple, Amazon will react when they feel corner.

2:02:55And I think in the last 20 to 25 years, what you've seen is those companies, when they're back so against the wall, they use money, their sharp elbow, but the consistent thing is they've won. The real question is, do people look at the chart of the users? Because typically what happens is it's users, what tilts these companies? When some things, some upstart, you remember when Snapchat was about to explode? There was a decision. We're going to to capitate this company Facebook effectively did that. They relegated it to the board. The Zinga. Zinga. There's many examples. So the real question is when they see that this app is going to be a three or five hundred million mile and they appear on some list where they're bigger than I don't know pick your favorite app inside of metadata.

2:03:40Ever. Yeah. Ever. Yeah. Will they freak out? And if they do freak out, what do they do? Oh, I can tell you they're freaking right now. Oh, yeah. It's an existential risk to them. Right. And the craze. I mean, look at Microsoft did they fuck butt three mile island. then the nuclear reactor, they bought it. Everybody is looking for the angle and the crazy part of it. It's really crazy. There used to be Moore's law that everything followed, right? The price performance curve always went like this, you know, and power goes up. Now, because you don't know, you don't know what you don't know and what you need to do next.

2:04:13That's part of the challenge that Elon has with Tesla in terms of full service driving. You don't know what you need to do next to get there to solve the problem. Do you have Tesla. Mark. I do. And I do also I also have a Kia EV. I have a Tesla EV and I have a Kia EV. Do you use the FSD and if so, how is it? I have, but I stop using it just because it terrified me because it doesn't know what adversarial things that doesn't know. Because you know, you know, anything that's adversarial that something that has to train on something that's seen and it's not smart enough to figure out what it hasn't seen and whether or not it's a risk.

2:04:49And I've said this before, my four -year -old, as many Australians shepherd, I can put it in a risky situation to cross the street and trust it'll get across the street, no matter what it is. It doesn't have to be pre -trained. You can't do that with full service driving yet. And so until that gets to where it needs to be, where adversarial issues aren't an issue, I'm not going to fully trust it. I have the 12 .5. I got a 12 .5. Thank you, Mark. Thank you, you've been really fun to talk to. So good to on you. This has been OverTime with you all in broadcasts with Mark Cuban. We'll see you all next time.

2:05:25You guys, thanks so much. I love you guys. That was fun. Well, let your winners ride. Brain man David Sack.

2:05:36We open source it to the fans and they've just got crazy with it. I love you, West. I'm a queen of kinwap. I'm going on a beach. What? What? What are you on a beach? I'm a pro. I'm a pro. Besties are gone. I'm going through this. That is my dog taking it away. She's your driveway. She's a sex. We're at a hooligan. Oh, man. I might have to dash her when we get to the beach. We should all just get a room and just have one big hug or two because they're all kids. It's like this sexual tension that we just need to release our power. What? You're the big B. What your fear of being. Be sure to wear your hair.

2:06:13We need to get merchies organized. I'm doing all this.

2:06:22I'm doing all this.