In conversation with President Trump

25:49They said, we're going to get the ultimate prize because of that. It was amazing. If anybody else did it, if a Democrat did it, they would have gotten every prize in the book, every prize in the book. But I did it. And it was a great thing that we did. It was a phenomenal thing. But when you look at what happened now and you see what's going on, it's very, very, very, very sad. That attack would have never happened in a million years. Iran didn't have the money for Hamas, they didn't have the money for Hezbollah, they didn't have the money for any of the 28 other cells of terror or whatever you want to call them.

26:24Iran was broke, I say respectfully, they had no money and they weren't given money. And actually it was a big story when I was toward the end of my term. There was a lot of big stories that there was no terror going on because Iran didn't have the money they had to survive. We would have made a deal good for everybody. Everybody would have been happy. The main thing is Iran can't have a nuclear weapon. That was my main thing. The deal was a simple deal. Iran can't have a nuclear, you know, it can't have a missile, can't have a nuclear missile. It cannot have that nuclear capability. Other than that, we talk about everything.

27:00They would have been very happy. It would have been fine. And you would have had peace in them at least. The problem is I had them at a point where you couldn't negotiate it. a child could have made a deal with them. And Biden did nothing. He did nothing. A child. He doesn't like to negotiate. A young man that do nothing or a young woman that do nothing in kindergarten could have made a deal with Iran at that time because they wanted to make a deal. And Biden never took advantage of it. Now they put back no sanctions, all of the different things that they gave him. China buys billions and billions of dollars of oil every month, many billions of dollars a month, other people are buying.

27:38So Iran now has $250 billion cash. They made it all in three and a half years. And now they're much tougher to deal with. And I will tell you, I got along great with Kim Jong Un. We solved that problem. Nobody was in danger, but this is a big problem. This is a real problem. And within 90 days or so, they're going to have, and could have very well a nuclear weapon. Israel is a big difference in Israel between Iran with a nuclear weapon and Iran without a nuclear weapon and lots of luck in that negotiation. That's going to be a much more difficult negotiation. President Trump, I wanted to ask you a question about Roe v.

28:17Wade. You promised your base that you would overturn Roe v. Wade. You added three people to the Supreme Court and you delivered on that promise. This might be the issue that determines the election and many people believe it is. Are you going to do a national abortion ban? Would you support that? Yes or no? So I don't need a national ban because it's up to the states right now What I did is something that people have wanted to do for from day one 51 years It's been going on and if you remember over the years you're too young But over the years all they wanted to do is they wanted to make take it out of the federal government and move it into the states And I got that done with the selection of three great justices.

28:59I got it done and it was a big thing But I will say over the last 10 years or maybe a little bit more than that, they started talking about the number of weeks and this and that a lot of different subjects came in. It was no longer just simply bringing it back. Every legal scholar from Democrat to Republican, liberal, conservative, they all wanted it brought, given to the states because from a legal standpoint, from a lot of other standpoints, including even a moral standpoint, they wanted it brought back to the states. and what I did is I got it back to the States. And now the States are in charge, and the people are voting.

29:37And some votes are coming out the way certain people wanted, and some votes aren't coming out the way certain people wanted. I mean, if you look at Ohio, I would say it was a more liberal vote than people would have thought. And you could say that for Kansas, and then you look at Texas, it was a different story. But the people of the States have got that issue now, and they're voting. And the one thing that we have to remember that there's been a lot of radicalism talked about, and the radicalism is really on the left because they're willing to do abortions in the eighth and ninth months, month, and even beyond that.

30:11I mean, we have some people, the governor, take a look at the governor of Virginia, the former governor of Virginia, where he talked about, we will kill the baby after the baby is born. That's a very radical stance, and hopefully that's all going to be taken off the table now. But just to put it simply, it's now up to the states. And like Ronald Reagan, I'm a believer in the exceptions, the three exceptions, as you know, and Ray Benzest, Life of the Mother, the danger for the life of the Mother. And we have a situation now where it's in the states' hands, and the states are going to be voting.

30:48The last thing people want, the people are going to be voting. The last thing people want is for that to go back into the federal government. It was always fought and very importantly, and people wanted it, they wanted it back in the States where it belongs legally and for a lot of other reasons. So you wouldn't support a national ban? No, I wouldn't support a national ban. I would not. Just shifting back to foreign policy for a moment, Mr. President, on the relationship with China, it's funny how Democrats and Republicans seem to have a unified voice and and banging the drums on the rise of China.

31:23Do you think that war with China is inevitable? And if not, how do we avoid it? I think it's not inevitable. I think it's unlikely. I know President Xi very well and we got a long grade until COVID and I wasn't so happy with him because they gave it to us. I said it came from the Wuhan lab. I was right about that. They said then it started in Italy and then it started in France and started everywhere with them. but it started in China. And it was a many, many millions of people died all over the world. And of course, the world probably $60 trillion, which is more money than China has, and more money than anybody has.

32:01The death and destruction has been unbelievable. But I think it's high. If you have the right president, we can live at peace with China. We can do very well with China, compete with China. But we don't have the right president right now. He's not respected by China. He's being left out by China and he's a Manchurian candidate. I mean, he's received money from China his family And that makes him to me somebody that shouldn't be negotiating it. He's got a conflict of interest But no, I don't see war with China as being inevitable at all President Trump do you think that Fauci and our government funded gain of function research and do you think we should Really be pursuing the investigation deeply into that and if we did fund gain of function research What does that say about our government and taking ownership of it?

32:51Because a lot of us lost a lot of years. Kids didn't go to school and it caused economic damage as you pointed out earlier the amount of money you had to spend to try to avoid a depression was really severe. And if we funded that, what does that make you think about our government and then Fauci covering it up? If that is in fact true, what does that make you think about our government? So if you remember I'm the one that stopped it and I stopped it maybe for a lucky reason or an unusual reason I said why are we paying money to China? It wasn't about gain of function or anything else. It was why are we paying money to China China?

33:26China got a lot of money and They're doing fine. You know, we're considered like we they want us to consider them a growing nation a Nation in distress all sorts of things because they always take advantage of every treaty by saying that they need You know, they're an improving nation. I heard the other day they have all different terms for changing, but they're a growing nation. Well, we're a growing nation too. We're a nation that's becoming a third world nation, based on what we're seeing. But I was the one that stopped that. When I saw that, I was the one that stopped that. The Fauci thing is an interesting phenomena.

34:04He's a much, I was not a big fan of his. As you know, he said, no, let everybody come in from China. I overrode him on that. I overwrote him on a lot, but he wanted the people from China. When I heard about this, I stopped it. We had a room loaded up with people and nobody could even believe it, but I stopped it. We would have lost hundreds of thousands of people more, maybe over the millions, but hundreds of thousands of people more had I not stopped people coming in from China. Did he lie to you about the origin of COVID? Well, I've always said the origin was, you know, where it came from, where it originally came from was the Wuhan lab.

34:42I happen to think it escaped from the Wuhan lab. I mean, I don't believe it came from the bats in 2000 miles away, caves. I don't believe it came from other countries. As China tried to convince people it did, I thought it should have been called the China virus because it was a very much more accurate term than COVID. Nobody knows what COVID even means. Why is it COVID? But no, I was always... But did Fauci lie to you? I guess is what the American people want to know. Did Fauci lie to you and if he did, should he be prosecuted? I don't think I dealt with. You have to understand. Fauci was a much bigger factor in the Biden administration than he was in the Trump administration.

35:20I didn't rely on him that much because I didn't trust him. I would say, got along with him fine, not really. But I didn't trust him. And again, I was the one that stopped the money going to China. I didn't like it. I didn't stop it because of COVID. I didn't stop it because of anything other than, But why are we paying money to China? It was strange. They should pay us money. We shouldn't pay them money. One of the things I can tell you, the World Health Organization, so we pay them almost $500 million, and China pays them $39 million. And so I got out of the World Health Organization. They did absolutely nothing.

36:00They called it totally wrong. I got out. They called me and they said, well, do anything to keep you in, anything, anything. I said, well, why are they paying 39 million? We're paying almost 500 million. And they said, well, we'll work out a deal where you can pay much less. I said, well, now you're starting to talk. But even that, it was very popular when I got out. It was very politically. It would have been very hard to go back in. People were thrilled that I got out. I could have made a deal to go in for 39 million. They offered me a deal to go in for 39 million. I actually turned it down.

36:32I said, you know, it should be a third. It should be, if you look at, we're 350 million to there, 1 .4 billion people, right? So it should have been 25 % or less than that. But I didn't want to quibble, but I could have gone back in immediately for $39 million, as opposed to $500. Then a horrible, horrible election which helped destroy our country took place in 2020. And they went back in and they're paying more than $500 million. And they knew I could have made a deal. Now, it's a lot of money, not when you talk about the world, but it's still a lot of money in it, but it shows you the stupidity of the whole thing.

37:11They could have made a deal for $39 million. Instead, they're paying much more than they paid even before. And that's the way the mindset of our country is. And here's the big part. China totally controls the WHO. China totally controls them. We have very little control over them. And now they want to give control over a whole country to them, which would be a terrible mistake. Fauci brings up sort of the kind of deep state personality that you talked about in 2016, that's kind of like riddled all over the government. How much progress do you think you made and how what do you want to do if you become president in November?

37:49And do you have goals around the deep state this time around? And what are they? Well, I have a lot of things. I mean, I did a lot of things in the FBI. I fired a lot of their top people, including Komi, who's terrible. at what he did, a terrible person, and terrible at what he did. I fired McCabe, and you know, I don't have to go through Lisa and struck, you know, all of the lovers, and I fired all people, people. I got rid of them, and you know, so many of the agents are so incredible in the FBI down below, but we got rid of a lot. You take a look at the World Health again, we got out of the World Health, we got out of the, this is a similar thing that, you know, this is really similar to your answer, but we got to the World Health Organization, which was a tremendous thing.

38:34We got rid of the Paris accord. The Paris accord was a disaster for us. We were going to pay a trillion dollars, and other countries were paying nothing. Russia was paying nothing. China was paying nothing. It didn't even kick in for China until 2030, whereas with us it kicked in immediately. So I got rid of the Paris Accord. I did a lot of things having to do with not only people, but tremendous amounts of money because the Paris Accord was so unfair. And I said, you know, when I do this, people are not going to like it, but I have to do it because it's right. People loved it. The public understood it.

39:11They loved it. And now they've gone back into the Paris Accord at the same terms and even worse than the terms I got out. It's really ashamed so many things it's so sad to see so many things like I mean the w h o the Paris accord you take a look at these things they could have gone back if they wanted to go back if they had it they could have gone back for a fraction of what they were doing and they're very unfair to the United States we're like a lap dog for every other country mr. president I know you running out of time here so I by we have a chance to for you to speak to the border situation yet so I want to give you a chance to to address that because that's always been really one of the your main issues since always since 2016.

39:53You wanted to build a wall, the Democrats, everything they could to thwart that. You built the wall, but then Biden left a bunch of holes in it and then sold off the parts for scrap metal. And now we've had the pro and repeal your executive orders. So I want to give you a chance to speak to that. But one piece I want to just add in as a follow up question is a lot of tech CEOs say, If we fix the border, can we get more H1Bs for tech workers? So can you address that as well as what's going on with the border? Yes, so we built hundreds of miles of well -David as you know, and we're very proud of it.

40:26We did it as per specification by the Border Patrol. They wanted exactly the wall that we did with the climb paddle on top with steel, concrete, and then rebar and all of the things that they wanted to have vision through it, clearly through it. And because I thought about concrete plank, frankly, going up 40 or 50 feet and they didn't like that, they wanted to have vision through and I understood that too. I sort of disagreed with it, but that's okay. We actually brought climbers in, Mount Everest climbers to climb and we built a very hard wall to climb. It's a very effective wall. And we built hundreds of miles and then we were going to add quite a bit at the very end.

41:05And we bought about 200 additional miles, and it was ready to be put up. Could have been put up in three weeks, maybe four weeks. And areas that were rough areas that were people coming in, because as you build the wall, they go in different areas, right? They go further out. It was so effective. It was so effective. Mexico gave us a lot of troops for free because of a certain negotiation that I had with them. You heard that. But it was so effective the wall, but Biden, they didn't want to put up those slats that were going up routinely by us. That means you had gaps. You had, as an example, you had gates in certain area that we put up.

41:48We were going to put up big, powerful gates that we could open and you could let equipment through, et cetera, et cetera, if you needed it. And they got rid of everything. They sold it for five cents on the dollar, much of it, five cents on the dollar. I said, I can't believe it. And that's the first time that I said they're serious. They actually won open borders. They won an open border. Nobody could believe it. I couldn't believe it. Because I never believed they wanted an open border, because who would be stupid enough to want an open border? Look what's happened with an open border. I was very proud of that.

42:19We built, we had the safest border in the history of our country. And now we have the worst border in the history of the world. We had a safe border. I had a remain in Mexico policy, a catch and release in Mexico, not in the United States. Everything was so good. But the remain in Mexico was a big deal, not easy to get, but it was a big deal. They were in Tijuana, hundreds of thousands of people. They had to be approved to come into our country. And now you look at what's happened. We've been overrun. It's an invasion of our country by people. Many people come out of jails and prisons. they come out of mental institutions in Santa's Islands and we have terrorists coming into our country at a level that we've never seen before.

42:59It's a very sad. I never understood why the wall was so controversial. Every country needs some of a border and a wall is a really good way to enforce a border. I never understood why they were so animated about stopping you from building the wall after you ran on that issue in 2016. They held you up for years with litigation and then like you said, they wouldn't just finish the little pieces of it and they left big holes in it. And I think you're right, the only conclusion is they want an open border. I mean, how else do you explain it? They want to destroy our country. You know, the fact is it's incredible.

43:32The big mistake I made, I should have said, I will not build a wall. We do not want a wall. And that will have gone up in 15 minutes. The more important point, I think, Mr. President, is we need high skilled workers in this country. Yes. We need to recruit the best and brightest from the world. Every time we get somebody super intelligent from India, where you're up any country, that's one of us. That's one of us. Yeah, and three of the four here are immigrants, the ones without the ties. And we get these great people into our country, and that's a loss for our adversaries and our competitors.

44:08And it's a game for us, but I've never heard you talk about this. Can you please promise us you will give us more ability to import the best and brightest around the world to America? I do promise, but I have to do agree. That's why I promise. Otherwise, I wouldn't promise. Let me just tell you that it's so sad when we lose people from Harvard, MIT, from the greatest schools and lesser schools that are phenomenal schools also. And what I wanted to do, and I would have done this, but that we had to solve the COVID problem because that came in and sort of dominated for a little while as you perhaps know.

44:42But what I want to do and what I will do is you graduate from a college, I think you should get automatically as part of your diploma, a green card, to be able to stay in this country. And that includes junior colleges too. Anybody graduates from eight college, you go in there for two years or four years, if you graduate or you get a doctorate degree from a college, you should be able to stay in this country. And you know more stories than I do. But I know of stories where people graduated from a top college or from a college and they desperately wanted to stay here They had a plan for a company a concept and they can't they go back to India They go back to China they do the same basic company in those places and they become multi -billionaires employing thousands and thousands of people and it could have been done here And a bigger example is you they you need to pull a people to work for your companies You have great companies and they have to be smart people.

45:34Not everybody can be less than smart. You need brilliant people. And we force the brilliant people, the people that graduate from college, the people that are number one in their class from the best colleges. You have to be able to recruit these people and keep the people. It was such a big deal. Somebody graduates at the top of the class. They can't even make a deal with the company because they don't think they're going to be able to stay in the country. That is going to end on day one. That's fantastic. Yeah, that's great. Well, I think we all wholeheartedly agree with that. Being in the tech industry, we understand the importance of that.

46:08They're telling us that you have to go to the nervous president. So thank you so much for spending so much time with us. We really appreciate it. It's been great having this conversation with you. I'm sorry. I have to ask one question. When you got elected in 2016 election, you said the first thing or one of the things you wanted to do was release the JFK file. And then you said later, I saw it and I just, I wasn't really ready to do it. And then I saw a clip where you changed your mind and you said, I think we're ready to see this file. And I'm just curious. What's in it? What happened? What happened?

46:41Like what? I actually did do it. I released a lot, as you know. But when it came to the whole thing, I was hit by some people that worked for me, that are great people that you would respect and they asked me not to do it and I'm saying why, tell me why, and they said, sir, I think it needs a little more time. And I released a lot, but I said, if they feel so strongly, I respect the people and would have done that again, but this time I'm just going to do it. RFK says the CIA killed his uncle. Do you believe that? Well, this wasn't CIA that asked me, but I think CIA was probably behind it, but they didn't, They would have preferred that I not release the rest of it.

47:21So we did give quite a bit. It's going to be done early on. A lot of people want to see that. And whatever it may say, I won't say, I sort of have an idea. But whatever it is, it'll be very interesting for people to see. And we're going to have to learn from it. Promise us you'll come back again. You know, there are other things we're going to release too. We're going to release it. What? What else you got? We'll talk to you about it. off -calions. By the way, I generally speak and there are reasons not to release certain things obviously, but I generally know it's transparency and I think it's important that we release that.

47:59And there are other things too. There are other things that you know about. But people more than anything else they want the JFK files, we're going to release that immediately. You have a prediction for the debate next week. What's going to happen? Well, all I can say is this. I watched him with Paul Ryan and he destroyed Paul Ryan. Paul Ryan with the water. He was jugging water at a left and right. I didn't think he human being would be able to drink so much water at one time. And he'd be all right. So I'm not underestimating him. I'm not underestimating him. It is what it is. We'll see what happens.

48:30But you take a look at the last one. I happen to think he's incompetent for a lot of reasons. I think he's incompetent because he has gotten the worst policies both foreign policy and internal policy. I mean, who would not want to have a wall? Who wants to have millions of people pouring in? Who wants to have high taxes? You know, taxes are going to raise by four times if this guy has this plan. Is he incognitive decline? Do you believe he's incognitive decline? Well, I shouldn't be the one to say that, but I don't think he's doing particularly well, but I didn't think he was well 25 years ago.

49:02I thought he was not a smart person. And that was told to me by a certain member of the Kennedy family who was actually very friendly with me through a Palm Beach relationship and I was told that very strongly but so I was never a fan of his but I will say he beat Paul Ryan who's still years ago but he beat Paul Ryan pretty badly and I assume he's going to be somebody that will be a worthy debater yeah I would say I think I don't want to underestimate him all right I I think that's smart. Well, your team is telling us that they need you to go to a dinner, Mr. President. Obviously, we could keep going for hours and hours, but it's been great to have you for the last hour here.

49:47And it's been great to getting to know you with the dinner that we did. And we hope that you'll come back on our show. Podcasts are getting bigger and bigger. So hopefully in your second term, you'll come on here and talk to us again. I think Biden would do this interview. I don't think so. Absolutely not. Absolutely. I don't know. I don't think so. I don't think so. I don't think so. We haven't seen any interviews. So that's an honor to be with you all. Very good question. We appreciate it, sir. Thank you. Very appreciate it very much. Thank you, sir. There you have it. Wow. That was some hour, boys.

50:19What do we think? Let's do a wrap up, huh? I can do it. Do a little wrap here. Whoo. Jake, what are your big takeaways? Well, I want to decide it. As you know, we had a limited amount of time with him. and obviously I'll just say it, just say it. You like him. You didn't, you were, to say it, just say it because it's written all across your face, to say you like him, you're confused. I have some questions. He crushed your questions. No, he crushed your questions. I think you did. He crushed our questions. You asked great questions and he just dealt with them head on, just admitted it. You like him.

50:51You like him. You're looking at him. Oh, I do like the fact that he came on the Bible. I told you you like him. I told you you'd like him. Here's from my point. Whether you, whether you come out of the wall to vote for the president or not. Sure. Everybody needs to, I think, just sit in a room and just hear him out. If you are going to answer the question, what I'll say is there are some blockers I have that we didn't get to January 6th, obviously. I did, you know, one of the blockers I have is obviously Roe v. Wade. And I think he handled that question really well. And I think we may have gotten a little bit of breaking news there in terms of him saying he would not do the national ban.

51:28And I think that's a big concern people have. And I think that's maybe the issue according to a lot of experts, I'm sorry, I'm just not my current one. I have three. A lot of experts. People believe that could be the deciding issue of the election. And so I think he handled it really well by saying the states are going to choose and he's not going to do the federal government. He was very, he was the exception. He was very unequivocal about that really clear that he would not do a national ban, really clear that the states would decide. And furthermore, he understood that the states are deciding.

51:56There's been a bunch of referenda at the state level. and they are generally coming out on the pro -choice side and he indicated that he understood that some of the votes are not turning out the way the people which is what any percent of people want. Right, 80 % of people are women to choose. He's going to respect democracy on that issue. So I think he nailed that question. I think he was very definitive about Ukraine not entering NATO. And I think he was very definitive about an H1B policy that's pro productivity and immigration. That was the part I like best if I'm being giving grads, green cards.

52:33That's like such a good idea. That's breaking news too by the way. I think we elevated the discussion about immigration beyond the wall and into recruitment, which is what I have been trying to do on this podcast for a couple of years here now. So to hear the president say, I will do that for you because I want that. That to me was paddleable. And you know, there's a lot of things I agree with them on. And the January 6th up when you get to so apologies the audience on that. I know a lot of people have feelings about it. but you know you can only get so much from fifty minutes of interview i think you did a great job at all town hall on that issue remain quite frankly i felt like we don't have a lot of substance here so but you're not that you he was really clear on you crane he went further than he has in the past in the past he said that he'll get a piece deal very quickly and then he wants a people to stop dying but in this interview he went further he said that if france or other european country senate troops the u .s.

53:20definitely will not participate in that we are not consent american boots on the ground the by administration i don't think it said that definitively the way that President Trump said it moreover, he understood that a major cause of the war was the desire to bring Ukraine into NATO. And I've never heard, I've never heard anyone in the administration say that. And he went further and said they keep saying these provocative things about, you know, even now they keep repeating that Ukraine is going to be part of NATO. So he understood the provocation there. Fred, where's your take on him? You haven't come out and said who you're voting for, but this is your first time interacting with him.

53:58I'll be it for 50 minutes in group setting, but what are you, what's your question? It's a difficult forum because we can't go deep and ask responsive questions and we don't have a lot of time and there's four of us trying to ask questions. So the format is a little difficult to get to the heart of the matter on some of these complicated topics like federal spending. Yes, I said. We need two hours. Yeah, and I think you need to just be able to hone in on the question, you know, his response on how we're going to reduce kind of the bureaucratic overhead and the wasteful spending and the federal government and you kind of pivoted to the Department of Education.

54:29That's 3 % of the federal budget. I want to talk about the rest of it. And you know, we're adding, it took us 200 years as a country to add a trillion to all those to our federal debt, to go from zero to a trillion. And now we're adding a trillion every 100 days. And it's going to take a lot more than just one to 3 % cuts in spending to get us out of the, you know, the spiral that we're in. I also am concerned very, I think very rightly so, and I think he acknowledges the concerns that were mentioned by Larry Summers, that tariffs plus tax cuts could lead to serious inflation and economic contraction.

55:07Those are really difficult things to do together unless you have a very clear plan for massively cutting spending at the federal level. So I don't feel like I got to the heart of the matter on those points, and as you guys know, So that's what I care so deeply about. I think we need to fix the machine to be able to do the things we want the machine to do over time. And I'm very deeply worried about that. You know, I had a couple of reactions to that. So number one is I thought it was interesting how he reacted to the question about Larry Summers because he knows Larry Summers and he actually said several very special things towards him.

55:39So he may not agree with him on everything, but he said that Larry had gotten a bunch of things right and he's an interesting guy. and Larry did get the inflation call right. Remember at the very beginning of the Biden administration. So it was interesting. I thought that President Trump handled that question very tactfully. I think it's not like he wasn't looking to attack anyone or anything like that. Do we really buy? He's going to do this tariffs thing anyway. Like it seems like that's a bit of pandering, maybe to the voter base. It sounds like a great solution, right? But I don't think he's going to do it.

56:09Yeah. Once the economic advisors get together and look at the analysis and what this will do to cost of things, inflation will go up, etc. You know, maybe there's a rethink ultimately on how that's implemented and on what particular Slices of the economy it's implemented so I'm sure as you point out it probably gets toned down for this to you know to even become a reality It's on the on the second piece on the the deficit, you know Jake how you asked a pretty tough question there where you basically said look your your your death the debt has grown as much Under your first term as it has under Biden remember that the eight trillion or something.

56:41It's almost exactly going to be the same. 6 .5 to date from Biden's 7 .8 trillion. But I think you had a pretty good answer, which was that, look, at the first year of COVID, we were dealing with a potential depression. I don't know if you mentioned that the economy, GDP was down 30%. Yeah, you talked about 19, 29, yeah. Yeah, exactly. So he basically explained that we had to do that. But then after that, we shouldn't have kept going. And I do think that Trump is just not as big a spender as Biden. I mean, look, Biden's been in Washington for 50 years. He thinks governments the answer for everything.

57:15He loves spending money. And he spent trillions on COVID even after we didn't need to. So I get the sense that Trump was a reluctant spender. I'm not saying he didn't spend. Whereas Biden, I think, is a eager spender. And I think that the other question is how much does spend because it's popular? I just think it's their nature. I think if Trump had the power by himself to reign and spending, I think he would. I think the issue is that the president by himself can't do that much. Which is what my follow -up question was, right? I was trying to ask him, can you actually do it as president or not?

57:48Is there the wherewithal to do it? I think the other aspect, I wanted to see. I'm really glad he talked about de -dollarization. He mentioned it up front. That to me really resonated. It really rings true to the effect of US spending, US foreign policy. So much of this is driving. I'm concerned about driving the Saudis into the arms of the Chinese and other foreign adversaries to the United States. And I would have really liked to have spent a little time with him on the Saudi relationship where he sees that headed. How the Saudi relationship will affect the Middle East and how the Saudi relationship could affect the US dollar and dollar reserves around the world.

58:27But I think he's acutely aware of the dollarization and foreign reserves in dollars being sold down and that there are serious effects to that. I didn't hear a follow -up on what the specific responses will be to the drivers there, which I would have loved to spend a little more time on. What do you think will be the viral moments to come out of this? What do you think the mainstream media or social media will take from this any moment you think were breaking news or notable? Well, I think there's a lot of clarity on a couple of important points. One is no federal ban on abortion. I think that that's important news for a lot of people.

59:04The second is this clarity on H1Bs, which is very different from what has to be done at the border. And I think that was very clear and new. And I think it's very positive for our community, meaning the technical issue. Absolutely. I think that's why we need that clarity because we're trying to hire these people. And we are losing them every day. And then the third was, I think, the clarity on NATO was also very definitive and I think that that's important. The fourth, which was an implication of what he said, which is a little depressing, is I think there's a lot of us that want to see this Israeli -Palestine conflict resolved.

59:45And I think what he's saying is, we can't because we've let the genie out of the bottle. We have an adversary now with a quarter of a trillion dollars of excess cash who has no incentive to negotiate. Iran. That's right. That's really depressing. And then the fifth one was around this JFK thing. The reason why I asked the JFK question is not necessarily that I have a specific interest in JFK, but it's emblematic of, it's a proxy for this deep state, this idea of secrets or this idea of there's a layer of people that are embedded in the United States government that decides on behalf of all of us.

1:00:23And I think when you have somebody who can push back against that and use transparency and sunlight as the cleansing function, that is what we need. If we're going to rebuild trust in our government and institutions, we're going to need a lot more transparency. And if that one's hanging out there, why not resolve it? I mean, did he say he thinks the CIA did it? I think I heard him say that. I think CIA did it. What I heard was he said he was behind the people who were influencing him not to. I think what he said was this white information app. He also should be clear about that because it could be it could be quoted out of context Yeah, we're gonna need to see the transcript on that you did not say that you thought the CIA He did not say he didn't come anywhere close Right, he said that he thought the CIA was behind Influence that we're telling him yeah to not do it and he listened to them out of trust and respect for them Which I think that's a reasonable judgment in the moment my point is exposing that is a very important way of giving the influence and power back to the people.

1:01:22I've mentioned this quote from Mike Pompeo, which is really powerful, but it's something to the effect of the people on the top floor of the CIA do not believe it's a Democrat or a Republican that runs America, but that they do. And he said that in the context of being asked, what is the one regret you have or some the CIA and Pompeo said that he didn't fix that. So I think that there's a lot of embedded versions of this establishment class that lurk in many institutions, whether it's the EPA, whether it's the CIA, whether it's the NIH. And if there are ways in which the president can unlock the data that's necessary or the information for all of us to have a little bit more clarity on what's happening.

1:02:14I think it's important. And I think for many people that the JFK file is representative of a lot of well, and then dovetelling that sex, the Fauci discussion where he said, I don't trust, I never trusted Fauci and then kind of pushing it on like, Hey, do you think it should be prosecuted? Did we fund it or not? Seems pretty clear. He believes we funded gain a research. His position was I just didn't want to spend the money, which I appreciate about it with China, with China, yeah. We're gonna spend the money in China, yeah. Yeah, and so, okay. What did you think of that point, yeah? Well, I thought that his response on that was similar to a lot of his responses, which is he did not take the edgy position that he was sort of being teed up to take.

1:02:58I mean, kind of like same thing with the Larry Summers thing. You know, he had mild criticism, I thought, for Fauci, but he didn't go scorched earth at all on Fauci there. And - I trust him. He's absolutely. Nobody has trust. Nobody trusts. Nobody trusts Fauci. You asked him whether Fauci should be prosecuted. He did not take the bait on that. That's my point. He was very respectful, actually. I was very surprised to hear how he respected Fauci and how he framed his response to that question. And I think that says a lot. But can I tell you why you're surprised? Because I think we have been fed.

1:03:34This is what I'm saying. We have been fed a narrative of what President Trump looks like. Now in fairness, we're also being fed a narrative of what President Biden is like. And this is why you have to see these men up close and personal for yourself, because David, the fact that you're surprised is less about the fact that Donald Trump has changed. It's more the fact that you've been told a narrative and you've believed it. And so now when you see the actual truth you have to reunderwrite, hold on a second, he's actually pretty thoughtful, he's pretty presidential, He doesn't go off on people.

1:04:05That's not what we probably thought going in because that's not what the mainstream media portrays About what you should be thinking about in fairness. He has gone in on people pretty hard of the last eight years He's a counter -puncher. I don't think he hits people unless they hit him first. I mean that's his pattern But look I I agree with Jamal here that my overall Take on this and look my position is clear because I wrote a long post on X endorsing Trump a couple weeks ago But everything I heard here in this interview was consistent with the reasons why I stated I want to support him He clearly favors a pro growth agenda.

1:04:40He wants to keep taxes low or and reasonable He wants to reduce regulations. He wanted to increase the number of H1Bs Get the dream team over here for tech while sealing the border while cutting down on crime in blue cities He talked about how crime was out of control. He wants to negotiate peace deals. He, I think, understands very well why we have this war going on in Europe. Overall, I heard a lot of reassuring things. And I didn't hear anything that I would put in the category of agreements or a desire for revenge. The media is trying to portray him as like seeking vengeance or something like that.

1:05:23Well, that's because he's been set to years. Didn't get that role. Peace that over again. Let's be clear. He said over again, I will be your retribution. So he may not have set it on this podcast. Did you get any of that in this interview? No, I've just heard him say it 50 times the last 60 days. So that's where would you like to have seen him be? Maybe the same clip played over and over again on. Where would you like to have seen him be stronger or different on any of his major positions? What would you as his advisor advise him to shift or double down on a bit? Well, I mean, I think Jamal is right that with respect to the Middle East, I think his position isn't perfectly clear because it's not only about Iran in the Middle East, right?

1:06:08But the truth of the matter is politically, I don't know that he could say more. And I think that's just a very, very tough issue where you're bound to alienate and polarize one side of the other. And so I think he's sort of definitely walking a tightrope there. Yeah, when he said it would never have happened like I'm always like, you know, like it would I would like to have a little more of the why. Why do you believe that? And he never gets into the details. He just says that a while. But maybe he's right. Like when I hear Trump talk, what I hear is someone who's a deal maker. He was a deal maker in business.

1:06:41Now he's a deal maker politically. He's willing to have conversations with anybody. There was even a moment when he's talking about Iran where he said maybe he could have worked out a deal. But in any event, he's somebody who I think is willing to negotiate, which is, I think, it's a positive thing, because once the last time Biden negotiated anything, he isn't interested at all. I mean, I didn't get to ask, but one of the things I had chewed up was, you know, I just think you've done a phenomenal job in talking to people who most people feel are difficult people to get along with, you know, Kim Jong -un, G, Putin.

1:07:17I think it's a superpower, talking to dictators, despots, people who are contanker as difficult, And he always seems to get the better of them or at least get, he at least gets our interest as Americans aligned with whatever their interests are. Sorry, I think. Let me ask you, give him an applause on that. Yeah, I don't want to be insulting. I'm asking, like in the past you said that he was embracing the dictators and he was cow -towing to that. I mean, you've said comments like that in the past where you saw this and you have, yes, or something that felt like he was more trying to embrace and engage with them in a way that's like, Why would you?

1:07:51I have always felt you should talk to everybody all the time. You know, that's not my issue with Trump. You know, it's never been my issue with him. I think that's a superpower of the fact that he went into North Korea and stepped over in the DMZ. You used to have a look on Kim Jong -un's face. He just, Kim Jong -un just wants a little attention. He wants a little recognition. And this idea, like we're not going to give him any recognition is stupid because if you give him a little recognition, now you're sort of tilting him towards, hey, maybe you could be part of this. like maybe you could come to the West and see a movie premiere or come to the NBA finals as opposed to start wobbing, you know, dysfunctional missiles over Japan.

1:08:27Like, I love that kind of video. You know that video where they're like setting up their little press shooting in the conference room with me? Oh my god, that video is so funny. The smile on Kim Jong -un's face when Trump says, you want me to go over? Should I go over? Should I do it now? I'll go over. Okay, I'm going to under a welcome. And Kim Jong -un is beaming and you're like, He just played him. He played him. Like he walked 10 feet into North Korea and now comes England and it's like, you know what? I don't need this message. I guess my big unanswered question. I didn't want to ask him about like dollos prediction of like the cycle of empires, 500 years, six or a year of cycle.

1:09:02Well, let's play counterfactual free -brew. What do you, how do you compare the answers you've heard to what you have heard or what you think President Biden's answers would be to the things that you care about? I honestly feel like there's a little bit of a blinders to the question. and like there's a pivot back to what I've done, what I'll do versus the like, let's actually talk about where we are in the debt cycle. And this is exactly what history repeating itself. At the time that you take on all the debt, you drive internal conflict, January 6th is a great, like data point, you drive external conflict, we've had two or three wars start in the last four years.

1:09:40How do we reverse those things so that we don't repeat history? And we sat down with Dolly and we asked him this question, and is there a way to not repeat history? And he said, yes, there is. And we talked with Graham Allison about this. And all these guys believe that there's a way to avoid it. There have been moments where we've nearly had the external conflict. And that's why I asked him about war with China. But I want to understand if there is this broader kind of construct of what is going on. Because he hits on all the data points correctly, de -dollarization, increased spending, bloated bureaucracy, conflicts around the world, without taking it all into perspective and saying, man, like, this is where empires die, I guess he does say that, right?

1:10:17He does actually highlight exactly what Dahlio doesn't do. What delay does though, right? Like, Malay has said to the populace. Malay exactly. Yeah, Malay has the stuff that's the boss. He just needs to take that next Malay staff and say, I will cut half the people working active spaces. He kind of did say it when it came to education. I don't know what your interpretations were, gentlemen. Get back to an entrepreneurial economy, right? Allow capital. I think he did say around regulation. And then with respect to the bureaucracy, he pointed to education. Yeah. That was a good example. Energy he pointed to the EPA.

1:10:48The right things are on his radar screen. You know, I just don't think it's the right people around him, SACs. I mean, I need you in that cabinet. I know more jewelry on ease and stupid people. You got to, if you're gonna, if put him, put smart, we need it. We need a cabinet. Cabinet and advisors. Here's a thing. Here's a nuclear on the regulation and nuclear on AI. Like, yeah, in 2016, there was not the kind of people that for example were at this fundraiser that David and I organized was I think entirely different than what you saw in 2016 and I do think there's an opportunity where if you dipped your hand like there was a young man in the audience who answered this AI question and he talked about public key private key cryptography it was beautiful it was amazing very technical person but there There are all these people that are coming out of the woodwork to your point, Freeberg, if he can figure out how to build a cabinet with those people, meaning these extremely technical, thoughtful people.

1:11:52Then there's a real shot that you can change. I hope that's right. I pulled up some data going into our conversation. I just want to hear this to you guys. Totally off topic, but I just want to say we can cut it out if you want. But construction for the Francis Scott Keybridge, which is 1 .6 miles long when it was built in 1977 was $141 million, about $740 million in today's dollars. Today they're estimating to repair, you know, that's the bridge that collapsed in Baltimore. They're saying it's going to cost, you know, $2 billion or more to repair that bridge now, you know, 40 years later. California's bullet train project in 2008 was supposed to cost $40 billion.

1:12:28We're 15 years into this thing. We spent $18 billion. They're now asking for $140 billion total to build $171 mile track. That's a billion a mile. That's a billion a mile. Let me just tell you this other fact. China just spent. On the tracks in the middle of nowhere. Yeah, and China just spent 300 billion to build 16 ,000 miles of high speed rail. They're spending 18 million a mile. That's 2 % of the cost of the California high speed rail system. 2 % per mile. We are 50 times more expensive than China. That is where superpowers shift. That is where that is the fundamental premise of the shift that we've seen.

1:13:05five to six times in the last five or two. That's just question. Yeah, I mean, is it just time to privatize all the next stuff? Well, it's layers of, you know, yeah, these two men Trump are buying. And which one do you think is going to be more skeptical of big government spending? And which one is going to be more interested in being conducive to the private sector solving problems? I mean, to me, there's no comparison. No, all right. Well, which one, which one do you think? Obviously, Trump is, is all of his instincts are let's empower the private sector, Let's cut regulations. Let's make taxes reasonable.

1:13:36Let's get the smartest people in the country. Let's have peace deals. That's how growth. What do you think, Creeper? I have heard conversations that there is an economic argument. I don't know if I buy it. That one of the reasons that they're trying to leave the border open is there is a low cost labor pool that grows that actually is beneficial to economic growth. with that, there's just not enough in the workforce today to like think about the cost of building that railroad in China versus the US. You know, the average income in the US is a couple turns on what it is in China. You can also say you don't want to answer the question.

1:14:15Between the two? Yeah. Yeah. Ask this question more specifically. Yeah, honestly, who do you think is closer to your desired outcome? Trump or Biden? I think Trump hits on it like way more than Biden does. Yeah, he definitely hits on the concerns that I have. I don't know if he has like the path that makes me feel like, great, let's, you know, like this is going to work. Just Biden. Just Biden. And I think the other thing I worry about is the leadership problem with Trump. Meaning, I don't mean him as a leader in terms of effectiveness, but just this like, Trump to rangement syndrome is not something to be ignored and to be disparaging of the people that we all, you know, that not we all, but people say have Trump to rangement syndrome.

1:14:56It's a fundamental like tilting that he does. And he tilts half the people in the country. He tilts them. And I think that that is really, and maybe the other side too as well. Maybe it's like a lot of school problem that a lot of people have. That doesn't mean we should have a worse president. No, so that's one argument or yeah, or maybe he when he tried, maybe there's a way to use unifying speech instead of divisive speech. And that is my other concern is just like, or you speak directly to the people and you end up where Jake Alazat And where you're at, which is you've heard him face to face, really for the first time.

1:15:32I want to hear Biden face to face. I want to have a long conversation. We don't have none here. I do not agree. We invited Biden on here too. And we're waiting breathlessly for him to accept the invitation. You got to give Trump credit for coming on the show, like he said. Yeah. And took all questions. Yeah. So you got to give Trump a lot of credit for that. But freeberg to your point about the TDS for a second. And look, when Biden ran in 2020, he promised a return to normalcy. That was basically his sales pitch. We had just gone through COVID. You know, there were a lot of people who had TDS or a tilt -by -Trump.

1:16:07And what Biden said is we're going to have normalcy. What actually happened? Well, I think Biden began this incredibly partisan and vindictive program of law fair. I'm trying to prosecute not just Trump, but a lot of other people. We had the border basically opened up. I mean Biden repealed all those executive orders on day one and did create those holes in the wall. There was absolutely no reason for that. We had this war in Ukraine that was easily avoidable if they just said the right things back in 2021 and I mean I could go on. I mean on on the issue of tech like we talked about everyone feels frozen right now.

1:16:49Crypto gotten the normalcy that we were promised. I don't think so. And on the other hand, what I heard from Trump in this interview was like, he was sort of softened. He did not go scorched earth, we've even invited him to. He did not say cross -cute, fashions. I will agree. He did not. He had nice words to say about Larry Summers. Yes. He was, you know, I thought this was a very moderate sounding Trump. Maybe it's a different approach and I'm wrong and I'm just referencing the history with him And I do agree with you that the way he spoke today about people that have been antagonistic about him or to him, like Larry Summers and Fauci, did surprise me, particularly after years of him sending out these tweets every morning about people that are antagonistic about him.

1:17:32And it was quite refreshing, honestly, and it felt different. So, you know, I will give him credit on that point. I will, I will like agree with you on that, Zach, for sure. The point is, I think that we had an opportunity to interview the president of the United States. And that was great. I think we talked about a broad spectrum of issues. I wish we had more time. I think he answered them precisely and I think he was candid and I think that he gave us new information Which I think is important and I think it allowed you guys to see what I saw Which is if you're an independent or not a Republican quote -unquote by name and You have a preconceived notion of what President Trump is like It's very difficult to keep that notion, is my point, after you hear him and after you meet him.

1:18:22And I think that that's a very important thing to keep in mind because I don't think it says as much about President Trump, as it does about the lens with which we are taught to think about all of these people, including President Biden. So I would just say, you got to think for yourself. And that's the most important takeaway. And I think that we are giving people ground truth data to underwrite your own opinion. All right, everybody, this has been another amazing episode of the Allianne podcast. Thank you, David Sack for getting President Trump to come on. President Biden, you are, of course, invited to come on.

1:18:55We encourage you to come on. Give us 15 minutes. Give us an hour and a half, whatever you got. No, we've asked. We've asked. We're waiting. I'm just restating it for the record. At if you, by some means, somebody in this group says as we should talk to the O 'allian team since there are top 10 podcasts and every other presidential candidate's been on. Who knows, maybe somebody decides he's gonna be able to keep up with the group. You don't think he can keep up. That's the big challenge for the Rainman David Sachs. Jamf Paul Happati, your chairman, dictator, and the Sultan of Science, David Rupert, I am the world's greatest moderator.

1:19:28I'm getting moderated today. I'm sure Gess Sachs, great job. We'll see you next time. Great job, Saks. Love you boys. Have a good one, bye bye. I'm going to the toilet Well, let your winners ride Brain man David's act I'm going to the toilet And it says we open source it to the fans And they've just gone crazy with it I'm the queen of King Wild I'm going to the toilet What, what, your winners ride Besties are gone Go for it Besties are gone That's my dog taking it I wish you drive way to the next We're at all. We're at all. Oh man, I'm in the classroom. Meet me at the classroom. We should all just get a room and just have one big hug or a hug because they're all just like this like sexual tension that we just need to release some of them.

1:20:15What, you're the B. What, you're the B. You're the B. B. What? We need to get mercy. I'm going on, Leo.

1:20:29I'm going on, Leo.