Nico Rosberg on the Booming Business of F1 | All-In Live from Miami

0:00Former F1 driver champion in 2016, he's getting into the venture business. Please welcome Nico. They started the season with 20 drivers and they would end the season with only 18 of them left. Wow, what was the crazy you've ever been involved in? Well, my rival was my teammate. So unfortunately it really becomes like an enemy in a way. What were your first few deals? 11 labs for example. Holy shit, good for you. This used to be an extremely dangerous sport. You had people dying every year in these tiny little cars with no roll cages, etc. But over time, it's become incredibly safe. The number of people dying went from a couple of dozen a year in the 50s, 60s, 70s, and now it's gotten incredibly safe.

0:47How scary is it to drive in those cars? And how do you get over that fear of death? First of all, hello everybody. That's a pretty, that's a pretty intense start to the conversation. I just, I'm so excited. You're going to the car. You're going to the interview in Jacob. No, I mean, real best. I got to get right to it. I see. He's going to send the mood. How are you still alive? How are you? How are you? Why haven't you died yet? Yeah, why are you? I looked at that car. Justify yourself. Why is there no canopy on it? Why are you sure head exposed? It's so crazy. What you're doing or what you did?

1:19So no, you're absolutely right and I know better than most people also because my father actually was a Formula 1 racer Yeah, and he was a wonderful champion and a champion. I didn't want to say but yes, he was also a world champion But you're sorry. I asked you backstage. You're one of only two father -son world champions of all Yeah, that's true. Yeah, pretty incredible, which is very special So I mean your dad's out there racing You're at home with mom. I assume this has got to be terrifying to watch your dad do this. So in his day, they started the season with 20 drivers and they would end the season with only 18 of them left.

1:57So it was a 10 % chance, more or less, that you wouldn't make it through the season, which is just... Wow. That's crazy. Wow. I mean, if you do an eight -year career, like, what are your odds? That's not looking very good. So they're to your points. Yeah, it was the death... Every 100 ,000 miles, now it's a death, every 6, 7 million miles. I was very lucky because by the time I came in, they had carbon fiber, chaffees, they had a roll hoop now, you know, and this protection, this halo around your head, which recently saved a couple of lives in the last five years, because Max Verstappen, who's now the four -time world champion at the moment, he landed on Lewis Hamilton's head in Italy with the full car, and it was this halo that saved Lewis Hamilton's life.

2:44So we're very, very lucky how the sport has progressed with the safety. How did you start driving? How old were you? Because I didn't realize yesterday I'd go into the suite that we have and they say this kid is 18 years old as a driver. I had no idea that kids are young. We're driving. How old were you when you started? And at what point did you start to become competitive? So it's a bit like with every sport that you have to start very, very young. I started I was six. So I started go cutting on six. And then racing 10 years old. Now they start racing at when they're eight years old. So Antonelli, who was on pole position yesterday, the 18 -year -old, he started racing, he was eight.

3:21He was in my go -kiding team when he was 12. So I know him very, very well. And he is a generational talent, but it's very early for him, because he's only 18. And he took over the car of the greatest of all time. Louis Hamilton left Ferrari, a left Mercedes to go to Ferrari. and Antonelli took this car from Lewis Hamilton. That is insane pressure. Answer this question if you could. You said General Halt, how my best. So if we had to design some kind of a model, you could you define the features that he had when he was six, seven or eight years old that could have predicted how good it was? Like is it the mid -Achlorian?

4:05Like, what do you, well Anakin Skywalker was really good. I don't know, Nico, but I think it's a bit of a specialist in Star Wars lore. No, but you, yeah, I mean. The medic lore, you define the G -codes. Nico, do you think that you could design something where people's kids could come and take some kind of test? You look at your reflexes or your, you know, your eye twitch speed or the way your brain works. And is there a pattern, do you think, that is genetically predisposed, predisposed some people to just be exceptional? So we've not come to that point yet that we actually go through such tests, but I think there are a couple of things that would kind of satisfy that.

4:42And one is your speed of processing, because in a race car you're going at 220 mile an hour. And you have so many inputs flying at you, and not only visual, also sensual, everything, and also sound with the engine and everything. And you have to process that so rapidly. How did you train for that? I even had a computer program, which I developed just for myself, actually, where I would have all these different inputs. So audio, touch, tactile, had like a thing around here. And even then visual on the computer and I would be catching these inputs like in trying to break my record. And the faster I would go, the faster the program would go.

5:21So I was trying to develop these kind of things that to train my brain to move faster and react with. So re -action time is the key skill set of a driver. It's one of the ones. What is also being courageous and like something with your amygdala where like you don't have fear? There's that certainly yeah, he's a part I would say that I am actually someone who's quite fearful And but when you're in it you kind of also get used to things Yeah, and you start to feel quite safe in the car nowadays Because I'm not a crazy adrenaline drunky and like most other drivers actually out there Like someone like they're you find that they are adrenaline Yeah, someone like first happen is fearless like completely Or even Hamilton you know they're proper quite nutcases The pads are a little different for everyone.

6:08There's different kinds of different types. So there's a different kind of... So there's a different kind of... ...the personality type. There is a... Then of course there's hand eye coordination. So to your point, Shama, for young kids, probably there's a high chance that you put a tennis racket in your hand. There also be pretty good very quickly and it's a similar set of skills. Can we shift and talk a little bit about the business of Formula One? I mean, we were talking backstage before the show a little bit and you shared some of the anecdotes about some of the valuations and what's happened over the last decade, decade and a half.

6:36Maybe you can just paint a picture for us on how this has evolved as a business and where things sit today, where they're headed, and what's driven that? Yeah, so I'm a venture capitalist myself and that's why I'm very interested in the business side of sport. And F1 has gone through such an incredible inflection and there's a couple of factors that have come into play. They brought in budget caps for the teams. So the teams are spending just on their car development like north of 200 million a year. And now it's like limited to 130 million a year just for the chassis itself, not excluding engine drivers and top personnel.

7:17130 million dollars. Just for that chassis. On how many cars is that? Well, there's 10 teams. Yeah. Nobody's the 130 cars. Two race cars per year. Per year. But that's just a chassis. You then have the engine which is another 70 million. You then have the top driver who takes 50 million a year. Or 100? No, 100 no. That was the first stop in rumor to go to. Yeah, plus marketing, plus plus you get to maybe 7080. So, fielding a team is how much? Fielding a team is around, you get close to 300 million. Wow. Yeah. But you're saying that the budget cap allowed everything to kind of... Yes, because...

7:53So the budget cap brought in this cap for developing the chassis to 130. Then suddenly Netflix also came in and Netflix has just made the sports so much more popular. It's unbelievable. But that's where you really changed the landscape. Just in the US, you've gone from in a couple of like six years, 20 million fans to like 50 million fans. It's more than doubled only in the US alone. What do you think Netflix did right? So Netflix, the owners of F1 are Liberty, which is a US -based company. And they did very well. They opened up social media. The new generation of drivers are really social media, savvy, and are like the fanbase is 40 % women in America.

8:36How many women here today are F1 fans? Loads, there we go. Okay, not too bad. Are all the drivers as good looking as you or no? No, I'm sorry, I don't want to know. I don't know, I don't know. Don't need to yourself in Miami. So the audience blew up. The audience has blown up and you asked me, what did they get right? What did they get right? So what did they get right? The Netflix show, for those of you who've seen it, it's like a reality TV show. It's not just a sports documentary, like, hey, this guy won here, but they managed to capture these personas behind the scenes. And you really get to see the human beings behind the sport.

9:13And that's very special. And they tried to replicate it in other sports, like I think golf and tennis and it didn't work out as well. Because I think they got a little bit lucky also that here quite a few characters allowed them and completely opened up and allowed Netflix to capture the real intense behind the scenes moment and it's just fascinating to follow. Yeah. So that's what works the well. So because before if you come in as an outsider, I had this experience like what team are you, you know, who you support? Like I'm not really sure, but once you get to know the personalities, you have a vested interest, you have a history.

9:45There's something that you can context to a lot. Let me just end on the business part. Yes. So teams like 10 years ago, F1 teams were like, worth $150 million. And they would lose 50 million a year. And now the top teams go for $5 to $6 billion. 10 years later, it's like eye -watering. It's incredible. Each other when you're driving the race, you try to bump into each other. 100%. It's part of the game. You have to unfortunately. Explain, because I'm a neophyte, I don't understand it. I see like months and a while these NASCAR guys pull over, they get out, they throw their helmets at each other, you know, they get really upset.

10:24They seem like, but they seem like hillbillies. You guys seem like a bunch of Europeans. And like, you guys seem like you're fancy, like a little more elegant. What do you guys do? Do you guys like spray with clickle on each other or something? Like, how do you guys mess with each other? So, we had one guy push, it was for stoppage. and push the other guy and he got like one week of community service. So, uh... That was as far as it went. That's as far as the physical, but when you're in the car... Yeah, it's fierce. It's fierce. So, take us through, like, what was the crazy shit you've ever been involved in altercation -wise?

10:59Well, my rival was my teammate. My rival was Lewis Hamilton at the time. We're both racing for Mercedes. And he's Lewis Hamilton fans here today. A little bit. Okay, come here. Good. Actually, Nico, can you talk about that in that period? He's so dominant, but the car's so dominant, and then you win. What is it like where your teammates with your biggest competitor? What is that dynamic like, that psychological dynamic? Are you friends? Are you guys friends or? So with Lewis Hamilton, we were actually best friends when we were 14 years old. We grew up racing together in the same team, best friends.

11:37But when you get to F1, it's just so intense. and so much is that stake. And if it's just a two of you racing for race, so you win every single time? You can't stand them, you hate them. Yeah, it goes into hating them. Yeah, for real. I can see the content. But do you talk during the week or you don't even really interact? No, you don't interact much. So unfortunately, it really becomes an enemy in a way. And internally, in your own team, it's a horrible dynamic. Because also, even the rest of the team and then need to start to be neutral, they can't take any sides. So even when you win, it's not like everybody's leaning on with you.

12:16It makes the motion. It's really a tough situation. So it's like two people in the same project who can't stand each other, Friedberg. Yeah, they keep working together. Yeah, what are they going to say? How much of that fed your decision to retire literally days after you won the... That was a little... I think that caught some people off guard. Can you just know what happens? I was in my prime and I won that championship Which for me was my dream come true and it was extremely intense. Thank you. It was extremely Thanks, mom. I got one I got one clap From mom from my mom sitting Yeah,

12:59it was extremely intense and for me it just felt like the right moment to add a young daughter at home she was one year old, family, just felt like the right moment. I was in one piece to your comment, it'd be dangerous. And I just decided, Rashel, I never wanted to exit on the way down. That's something I definitely wanted to avoid. I wanted to exit at the top. And that was my moment, and I decided to pull the trigger. Has there been a good ROI for the car companies that have invested in F1 in that all this money that they spend other than the notoriety? Are they inventing things that we all use and see and interact with day -to -day in our own daily driving experience or not really?

13:39So you probably will be driving an AMG at some point? I had an AMG I wanted to go. There you go. And there is tech from the F1 team in there now. Okay. From the hybrid now. So for Mercedes, yes. There's this is the university. Yeah, every car company will be benefiting. But the return investment is also in terms of marketing. Mercedes, there's a calculated return of investment, which is two billion worth for their brand annually. And they don't actually invest money anymore because the team is profitable now. And highly profitable. Like these teams make $200, $300 million in profit every year.

14:15So they now have $6 billion dollar evaluations. Have we kind of peaked from your point of view is the market and the valuation curve still being climbed? There's still a lot of upside at the moment because this growth has just happened in the last five years. Yeah. And there's still, I mean, even America, there's still loads of growth potential, more races, there's licensing, the sport hasn't really even tapped into that yet. Do you think there's something about sports that are kind of more tuned to the way our brains now operate in a social media world, like a fast -paced world? Like, you know, golf became live, I mean, live really kind of changed the face of golf.

14:54There's now, baseball's obviously dead. I mean, MLB's been on the decline for years in the United States. Not saying anything negative about baseball. I'm just saying that the viewership is going down. No, no, no, no. There's a lot of games and it's a lot of fun. But there's also these conversations about basketball at the end of the day. I'll tell you this crazy anecdote. I was a co -owner of the Warriors. I sold two years ago. A friend of ours is in the market for a sports team. And he went to Europe to look at a bunch of soccer teams. And then we were all having dinner. and his bankers produced this study that showed exactly this problem which is young people.

15:30Their attention span is shrinking. As it shrinks, there are certain sports they just cannot watch. They cannot watch. And it's totally correlated. The negative viewership in baseball. The increase in the use of clips. So people are willing to watch baseball clips. They will not watch a baseball game to save their life. People will watch basketball clips. They won't watch basketball. The NBA is moving to clips. Yeah. And so it's this weird construction. but in some ways F1 is very set up for this already naturally right? People don't really watch the whole sport as much as they want to watch clips I'm guessing.

16:02It's not that boring. What do you do? I don't try to say our sport is really... How long is this race on site there? You just say sport in the Netherlands? It's never many years and it's not that long. No, but you guys also have a lot of data to geometry. You can feed that kind of anxious mind. And there's no breaks. It just goes. I'm not sure if you have a point there, unfortunately, but... Pretty tip of that. I'm just trying to go into the conversation. No, what I can say is that our sport has the highest engagement rates across all sports, even comparing to NBA and everything, but why is that?

16:36I think there's just a huge hype at the moment, and maybe yes, maybe... Okay, maybe a little bit, it is fast pacing, there's incredible action scenes, like thrilling action, there's huge crashes. You don't want to get in the business. Given your knowledge and your experience, you don't want to be in the business. Because you now have transitioned into venture capital. How did you make that decision versus working in the business of Formula One? Oh, great question. Because, yeah, that's a good question. So in Formula One, what jobs would have been left for me now after driving would be, for example, running a team.

17:09But running a team is 24 .7. Like, you need full commitment. You need to move to the UK. All the teams in the UK. It's a full -life dedication and I've been I've done that. It's been there done that now I want more freedom in my life to define my my calendar and everything and be at home more and So that job for example would not be a possibility You're not something I want to do and then beyond that. Yeah, you can be a driver manager But even there you need full commitment So tell us about this transition into tech and investing and venture and What was that journey and what attracted you to that?

17:44I was always inspired by people like Elon Musk, who are obviously you talking about before, and those achievements that you have this idea, and then you achieve something which has impacts, like millions of lives, I just found that fascinating. So I always just wanted to pursue that path, so I started investing as an angel investor. And then I'll just take it easy. Angel investing, what are you doing after the show? Did you ever read the book Angel? It's a phenomenal book. It's in 12 languages. Yeah, I'll sign a copy for it. It's 84 pages lower your first few deals 11 labs for example Good for you.

18:19Yeah, that's that's gone really well How do you know yeah, how do that come about? I mean, I'm really putting an effort into this community as well I'm spending a lot of time in the in Silicon Valley meeting everybody and and also connecting to the European corporate Landscapes on bringing customers revenues connecting building bridges because there's a unique angle that I can and bring thanks to my sports past. So I've just built my way into it and built a reputation and then you start getting the opportunities. What things Niko have you invested in that today you would not invest knowing what you know today?

18:55Not the ones that are born. Yeah, that's the flying taxis, the vitals, for example. Germany was leading the way on those. You have a Jobi, for example, Jobi Aviation, which is probably currently best position in the US. But Germany was leading the way with two horses in the race and both of them have run into trouble. One is bankrupt One was both bankrupt, I think So that's something that then in hindsight you of course if you had a red blood, but you would have known hardware is hard Right, I would have avoided that. I should have listened to you. I should have listened to you. I should have highlighted her out hard Where is hard?

19:32It can't work. It's even harder now with the tariffs. I'm hearing now like I have a I invested also in a cyber -Escuder here in New York called Infinite Machine. Now with the tariffs, because the supply chain is so... So brutal. Concentrated in China, it's just a complete mess. Yeah. Nico, what about the political landscape in Europe? There was a pretty important election in Germany. It seemed to kind of go down the middle. What goes of Europe? What's happening in Europe? The investability of Europe, the ability to do business in Europe. What do European industrial businesses do? There's a ton of skill.

20:06There's a ton of cash when you talk to those folks. What do you tell them? I know you're very very bearish on Europe. You wouldn't put a dollar there, but is that correct? Well, no, for sweaters and wine he puts much more than a dollar. That's true. Pretty prolific. It's a really good question. I actually think industrial chargers, yes. Industrials I would. Industrials I think there's tremendous skill. Outside of industrials I think it's hard. Yeah, so we have the we have the problems with regulatory framework being way to cumbersome We have the geographic fragmentation in Europe, which is very different to the US Politically, it's it's really I mean quite in a bad place at the moment and so yeah I understand but at the same time as you said talent density is insane the universities are some of the best in the world So that's where our hope is in the next generation that's coming now.

21:03Stick to the Nordics and the Nordics are very powerful Yes, but also the Dremelon of five Yeah, a little bit so there's there's a lot of hope still. Yeah. Hey, what's your daily driver? Daily driver is a Porsche a Porsche Yeah, and then when you were sure which are which are your daughter? I don't know how old she is But you ever liked post some tricks and like they she like hey dad No, she shouts drive slowly daddy Really? I'm not allowed to drive fast with her no terrified. Which is fine. Which is fine. You don't want her to get into the family business. No, no, no. What do you mean? What are some investments that you're really excited by?

21:37Beyond 11 labs, there would be applied intuition. Another one? Oh, great piece. Where I'm in. That's a really, really interesting company. It's a company that supplies software primarily to all the legacy car manufacturers that have not not manage this transition to being software first. Like Tesla has shown the way. And this started. It's like scale AI for automotive in some ways, right? For part of business. Nico, you're going to fit right in. Have you learned to play poker yet? I'm a good poker player. You're a good poker player? Yes, I'm Thursday. Excuse me, hold on Nico. What happened? Now you're making decisions.

22:12Give it up for Nico. You're going to play. Great thing. Thanks for coming out. Thanks to our new Bestie Nico Rosberg for joining us in Miami for F1 and thanks to you the audience for tuning in. If you want to come to our next event it's the All In Summit in Los Angeles, fourth year for All In Summit, go to allin .com slash events to apply. A very special thanks to our new partner OKX, the new money app. OKX was the sponsor of the McLaren F1 team which won the race in Miami. Thanks to Hyder and his team, an amazing partner and an amazing team. We really enjoyed spending time with you and OKX launched their new crypto exchange here in the US.

22:52If you love all in, go check them out. And a special thanks to our friends at Circle. They're the team behind USDC. Yes, your favorite stablecoin in the world. USDC is a fully backed digital dollar, redeemable one for one for USD. It's built for speed, safety and scale. They just announced the Circle Payments Network. This is enterprise -grade infrastructure that bridges the gap between the digital economy and outdated financial else. Go check out USDC for all your stablecoin needs and special banks to my friends including Shane over a polymarket Google Cloud Salana and BVNK. We couldn't have done it without y 'all.

23:33Thank you so much.

23:45I'm crazy with it. I love you, S. I'm sweet, I can't walk. I'm going on a leash. What? What?

23:55Besties are gone. Go for it. That's my dog taking a wish to drive away. Sit next to me. Sit next to me. Oh, man. My ham is the actual meat. We should all just get a room and just have one big hug. Or because they're all just like this, like, sexual tension. They just need to release something. What? You're the B. What? You're the B. B. What? We need to get merchies already. I'm doing all this.