OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war

28:09And so that inversion I think creates tremendous potential for operating leverage. All right, your thoughts, SACs, you operate in the SaaS space with system of records and investing in these type of companies. Give us your take. Well, it's interesting. We were having a version of this conversation last week on the pod. And I started getting texts from Benny Offes, he was listening to it and then, Oh, he called me and I think he got a little bit triggered by the idea that systems of record like Salesforce are gonna be obsolete in this new AI era. And he made a very compelling case to me about why that wouldn't happen.

28:44Which is? Well, first of all, I think AI models are predictive. I mean, at the end of the day, they're predicting the next set of texts and so forth. And when it comes to like your employee list or your customer list, you just want to have a source of truth. You don't want it to be 98 % accurate. You just want to be 100 % accurate. You want to know if the federal government asks you for the tax ID numbers of your employees, you just want to be able to give it to them. If Wall Street analysts ask you for your customer list and what the gap revenue is, you just want to be able to provide that. You don't want AI models figuring it out.

29:15So you're still going to need a smith record. Furthermore, he made the point that you still need databases, you still need enterprise security for dealing with enterprises, you still need compliance, you still need sharing models. There's all these aspects, all these things that have been built on top of the database that SESC company has been doing for 25 years. And then the final point that I think is compelling is that enterprise customers don't want to DIY it, right? They don't want to have to figure out how to put this together. and you can't just hand them an LLM and say, here you go. There's a lot of work that is needed in order to make these models productive.

29:55And so at a minimum, you're gonna need system integrators and consultants to come in there, connect, hold on, just connect all the enterprise data to these models, map the workflows. You have to do that now. How's that different from how this clunky software sold today? I mean, look, I don't want to take away from the quality of the company that Mark has built and what he's done for the cloud economy. So let's just put that aside. But I wish this is what we could have actually all been on stage and talked about when he was at the summit. I said that because I disagree with basically every premise of those three things.

30:31Number one, systems integrators exist today to build apps on top of these things. Why do you think you have companies like Viva? How can a 20 billion dollar plus company get built on top of Salesforce? It's because it doesn't do what it's meant to do. That's why App stores are a great way to allow people to build on your platform and cover those niche cases The point I'm trying to make is that's no different than the economy that exists today He's just gonna transform to different groups of people number one Well, by the way, he said he's willing to come on the pod and talk about this very issue, but just with you

31:07Oh, that's now great. He'll come on the pod and discuss whether AI makes tasks obsolete. A lot of people are asking that question. Let's talk about it next year at the summit. Can you talk about his philanthropy first? Okay, let's get back to focusing. Let's get focused everybody. Woohoo. Spicy. Love you Mark. Who's company dream force? Raise your hand. I want to make another point. That's that come point is that when you have agents, I think that we are overestimating what a system of record is. David, what you talked about but it's actually just an encrypted file or it's a bunch of rows in some database or it's in some data lake somewhere.

31:41You don't need to spend tens or hundreds of millions of dollars to wrap your revenue in something that says it's a system of record. You don't need that actually. You can just pipe that stuff directly from Stripe into snowflake and you can just transform it and do what you will with it and then report it. I'll tell you what you can do that today. It's just that. That's an interesting point through steak dinners and golf outings and all this stuff We've sold CIOs this idea that you need to wrap it in something called a system of record and all I'm saying is When you confront the total Cost of that versus what the alternative that is clearly going to happen in the next five or ten years Irrespective of whether any of us build it or not it will be to be able to just you just won't be able to justify it Because it's going to be a question of interaction.

32:33There's probably also an aspect of this that we can't predict what is going to work with respect to data structure. So right now, all of the tooling for AI is on the front end. And we haven't yet unleashed AI on the back end, which is if you told the AI, here's all the data ingest I'm going to be doing from all these different points in my business, figure out what you want to do with all that data. the AI will eventually come up with its own data structure and data system. That's nothing. That will look like, I don't know that. That's already happening. Right. So that's nothing like what we have today.

33:12In the same vein that we don't understand how the translation works in an LLM. We don't understand how a lot of the function works. A lot of the data structure and data architecture we won't understand clearly because it's going to be obfuscated by the model driving the development. There are open source agentec frameworks that already do freeberg what you're saying that so it's not true that it's not been done It's already been done. There may be it's being done right that's so it hasn't been fully implemented to replace There are there are companies. I'll give you an example of one like mechanical orchard They'll go into the most gnarliest of environments and what they will do is they will launch these agents that observe It's sort of what I told you guys before the IO stream of these apps and then reconstruct everything in the middle automatically.

33:55I don't understand why we think that there's a world where customer quality and NPS would not go sky high for a company that has some old legacy for trans system and now they can just pay you know mechanical orchard a few million bucks and they'll just replace it in the matter of months. It's gonna happen. Right. Yeah that's very interesting piece for me is I'm you know watching startups you know working on this the AI first ones I think are gonna come to it with a totally different cost structure. The idea of paying for seats and I mean some of these seats are 5 ,000 per person per year. Yeah, you by the way you nailed it a year ago when you were like, oh you mentioned some company that had like flat pricing.

34:36At first, by the way, when you said that, I thought this is nuts, but you're right. It actually makes a ton of sense because if you have a fixed group of people who can use this tooling to basically effectively be as productive as a company that's 10 times as big as you. You can afford to flat price your software because you can just work backwards from what margin structure you want and it's still meaningfully cheaper than any other alternative. A lot of startups now are doing consumption -based pricing. So they're saying, you know, how many sales calls are you doing? How many are we analyzing as opposed to how many sales executives do you have because when you have agents, as we're talking about, those agents are going to do a lot of the work.

35:23So we're going to see the number of people working at companies become fixed. And I think this static team size that we're seeing at a lot of large companies is only going to continue. It's going to be down into the right. And if you think you're going to get a high -paying job at a big tech company and you have to beat the agent, you're going to have to beat the Maestro who has five agents working for them. I think this is going to be a completely different world. Chema, I want to get back to OpenAI with a couple of other cases. So let's wrap this so we get to the next one. Yes, please. Less word for you.

35:55That's word. So look, I think that on the whole, I agree with Benning off here that there's more net new opportunity for AI companies, whether they be startups or existing big companies like sales force that are trying to do AI, then there is disruption. I think there will be some disruption. It's very hard for us to see exactly what AI is going to look like in five or ten years, so I don't want to discount the possibility that there will be some disruption of existing players. But I think on the whole, there's more net new opportunity. For example, the most highly valued public software company right now in terms of AR or multiple is Palantir.

36:33And I think that's largely because the market perceives Palantir is having a big AI opportunity. What is Palantir's approach? The first thing Palantir does when they go into a customer is they integrate with all of its systems. And they're dealing with the large enterprises they're dealing with the government, the Pentagon, Department of Defense. The first thing they do is go in and integrate with all of these legacy systems. And they collect all of the data in one place. They call it creating a digital twin. And once all the data is in one place with the right permissions and safeguards, now analysts can start working it.

37:08And that was their historical value proposition. But in addition, AI can now start working that problem. So anything that the analysts could work, now AI is going to be able to work. And so they're in an ideal position to master these new AI workflows. So what is the point I'm making? It's just that you can't just throw an LLM at these large enterprises. is you have to go in there and integrate with the existing systems. It's not about ripping out these existing systems because that's just a lot of headaches that nobody needs. It's generally an easier approach just to collect the data. Except on the renewal comes.

37:40What happens when you have to, you know, you're going to have to negotiate all those on something. And then you're going to renegotiate. You're going to spend a billion dollars again five years from now. It just doesn't seem very likely. There's going to be a lot of hardcore negotiations going on, Chema. People are going to ask for 20 % off, 50 % off. and people are going to have to be more competitive. That's all. I suspect volunteers go to market when they start to release scale, they'll be able to under price a bunch of these other alternatives. And so I think that when you look at the impacts and pricing that all of these open source and closed source model companies have now introduced in terms of the price per token, what we've seen is it's just a massive step function lower, right?

38:25So it is incredibly deflationary. So the things that sit on top are going to get priced as a function of that of that cost, which means it will be an order of magnitude cheaper than the stuff that it replaces, which means that a company would almost have to purposely want to keep paying tens of millions of dollars when they don't happen. They would need to make that as an explicit decision. And I think that very few companies will be in a position to be that cavalier in five and ten years. So you're either going to rebase the revenues of a bunch of these existing deterministic companies or you're going to create an entire economy of new ones that have a fraction of the revenues today, but a very different profitability profile.

39:14I just think that that's a cycle. When ever you're dealing with a disruption as big as this current one, I think it's always tempting to think in terms of the existing pie getting disrupted and shrunk as opposed to the pie getting so big with new use cases that on the whole, the ecosystem benefits. No, no, no, I agree with that. I suspect that's what's going to happen. No, I agree with that. My only point is that the pie can get bigger while the slices get much, much smaller. But, don't you also think? Well, right between the two of you, I think, is the truth. Because what's happening is, if you look at investing, it's very hard to get into these late -stage companies because they don't need as much capital because, to your point, Shamaaf, they, when they do hit profitability with 10 or 20 people, the revenue -employee is going way up.

40:07If you look at Google, Uber, Airbnb, and Facebook meta, they have the same number or less employees and they did three years ago, but they're all growing in that 20 to 30 percent a year, which means in but two to three years each of those companies has doubled revenue per employee. So that concept of more efficiency and then that trickles down sacks to the startup investing space where you and I are. I'm a pre -seed seed investor, you're a seed series A investor. If you don't get in in those three or four rounds, I think it's going to be really expensive and the companies are not going to need as much money downstream.

40:41Speaking of investing in late -stage companies, we never closed a loop on the whole open AI thing. What did we think of the fact that they're completely changing the structure of this company. They're changing it into a corporation from the nonprofit. And Sam's now getting a $10 billion stock package. He's not in for the money. He has health insurance acts. But we never just got it. Is it Congress? I don't need money. I just needed the health insurance. I mean, it's the funniest clip ever. This is the movie. No, it's in Congress. What is it, Congress? You make a lot of money, do you? I make no.

41:22I'm paid enough for hell and share. I have no equity in open AI. You really? No. It's interesting. You need a lawyer. I need a what? You need a lawyer or an agent. I'm doing this because I love it. It's the greatest. Look at me, don't believe him. I miss can I ask you a question there, Zach? Are you doing this venture capital? Will you put the money in the startups? Cause you love it or cause you're working with the entrepreneur? Another home in coastal city and put more Jeff fuel in that plane. I need an answer for the people of the sovereign state of Mississippi. No Louisiana. That's under John Kennedy from Louisiana.

42:01He's a very smart guy actually with a lot of, you know, sort of common folk wisdom. He got that simple talk. Yeah, exactly. We prayed to you right here. He's a star. Yeah, he's very funny, but he's very funny. If you listen to him, he knows how to slice and dice. You might need to get yourself one of them fancy agents from Hollywood or an attorney from the Wilson Sunsini Corporation to read and go share your contract. Because you're worth a lot more from what I can gather in your performance today than and just some simple healthcare. And I hope you took the Blue Cross Blue Shield. I would like to make two semi -serious observations.

42:43Let's go, your points. Get us back on track. I think the first is that there's gonna be a lot of people that are looking at the architecture of this conversion because if it passes, most of everybody should do it. Think about this model. Let's just say that you're in a market and you start as a nonprofit. What that really means is you pay no income tax. So for a long time, you put out a little bit of the percentage of whatever you earn. But you can now outspend and outcompete all of your competitors. And then once you win, you flip to a corporation. That's a great hack on the tax code. And you let the donators get first bite of the apple if you do convert.

43:28because remember, Vinod and Hoffman got all their shares on the conversion. The other way will also work as well because there's nothing that says you can't go in the other direction. So let's assume that you're already a for -profit company, but you're in a space with a bunch of competitors. Can't you just do this conversion and reverse becoming a non -profit? Again, you pay no income tax, so now you are economically advantaged relative to your competitors. and then when they wither and die or you can outspend them, you flip back to a for -profit again. I think the point is that there's a lot of people that are going to watch this closely and if it's legal and it's allowed, I just don't understand why everybody wouldn't do this.

44:16Yeah, I mean that was Elon's point as well and I mean the second thing which is just more of like cultural observation is and you brought up Elon might comment to you guys yesterday and I'll just make the comment today. It's a little bit disheartening to see a situation where Elon built something absolutely incredible, defied every expectation and then had the justice system take $55 billion away from him. His payment package you're referring to at his payment package, the options and test. and then on the other side, Sam's gonna pull something like this off, definitely pushing the boundaries and he's going to make 10 billion.

45:04And I just think when you put those two things in contrast, that's not how the system should probably work. I think is what most people would say. Fribert, you've been a little quiet here. Any thoughts on the transaction, the nonprofit to for -profit? If you were looking at that, in what you're doing, Do you see a way that O 'Holo could take a nonprofit status, raise a bunch of money through donations for virtuous work, then license those patents to your for -profit? Would that be advantageous to you? And do you think this could be coming from? Absolutely. Zero idea. I have no idea what they're doing.

45:38I don't know how they're converting a nonprofit to a for -profit. None of us have the details on this. There may be significant tax implications. Payments they need to make. I don't think any of us know. I certainly don't. I don't know if there's actually a real benefit here. If there is, I'm sure everyone would do it. No one's doing it, so there's probably a reason why it's difficult. I don't know. It's been done a couple of times. See, the Mozilla Foundation did it. We talked about that in a previous episode. So, you wanna wrap us up here on the corporate structure and you final thoughts? I mean, you all put in 50 million.

46:06I think he gets the same as Sam. Don't you think he should just chip off 7 % for you on? I not that you all need some money, he's asking, but I'm just wondering why you all doesn't get the 7 % and get where, you know, if they're going to actually put in 50, did he put in 50 million? About 50 million is the report, right? And they have a nonprofit, Hoffman put in 10. You look, I said on a previous show that this organizational chart of OpenAI was ridiculously complicated and they should go clean it up. They should open up the books and straighten everyone out. And I also said that as part of that, they could give Sam Altman a CEO option grant and they should also give Elon some fair compensation for being the seed investor put in the first $50 million and co -founder.

46:50And what you're seeing is, well, they're kind of doing that. They're opening up the books. They're straightening out the corporate structure. They're giving Sam his option grant, but they didn't do anything for Elon. And I'm not saying this as Elon's friend. I'm just saying that it's not really fair to basically go fix the original situation. You're making it into a for -profit. that you're giving everyone shares, but the guy who puts in the original C capital doesn't get anything, that's ridiculous. And what they're basically saying to Elon is if you don't like it, just sue us. I mean, that's basically what they're doing.

47:26And I said that they should go clean this up but they should make it right with everybody. So how do you not make it right with Elon? I haven't talked to him about this, but he reacted on X saying this is really wrong. It appeared to be a surprise to him. I doubt he knew this was coming. So the company apparently made no effort to make things right with him. And I think that that is a bit ridiculous. If you're going to clean this up, if you're going to change the original purpose of this organization to being a standard for -profit company where the CEO previously said he wasn't going to get any compensation, is now getting $10 billion of compensation.

48:06How do you do that and then not clean it up for the co -founder who put in the first $50 million? dollars. Yeah. That doesn't make sense to me. And you know, when read was on our pod, he he said, well, Elon's rich enough. Well, that that's not a principled excuse. I mean, does Vinod ever act that way? Does read ever act that way? Do they ever say, well, you know, you don't need to do what's fair for me because I'm ready rich. That's that's not a principle to answer. The argument that I heard was that Elon was given the opportunity to invest along with read a lot of the node and he declined to participate in the for profit investing side that everyone else participated.

48:42We've made that argument and I think it's the best argument the company has but let's think about that argument. Maybe Elon was busy that week. Maybe Elon already felt like he had put all the money that he had allocated for something like this into it because he put it in a $50 million check whereas he put it in 10. We don't know what Elon was thinking at that time. Maybe there was a crisis at Tesla and he was just really busy. The point is Elon shouldn't have been obligated to put in more money into this venture. The fact of the matter is they're refactoring the whole venture. Elon had an expectation when he put it in the 50 million that this would be a nonprofit and stay a nonprofit.

49:19And they're changing that. And if they change it, they have to make things right with him. It doesn't really matter whether he had a subsequent opportunity to invest. He wasn't obligated to make that investment. What he had an expectation of is that his $50 million to be used for a philanthropic purpose. And clearly it has not been. Yeah. And in fairness to the node, he bought that incredible beachfront property and donated it to the public trust so we can all serve and have a Halloween party there. So it's all good. Thank you for the note for giving us that incredible beach. I want to talk to you guys about interfaces that came up, Chimoff in your headwinds or your four pack of reasons that open AI, when you steal men, the bear case could have challenges.

50:02Obviously, we're seeing that and it is emerging that meta is working on some AR glasses that are really impressive. Additionally, I've installed iOS 18, which is Apple Intelligence that works on 15 phones and 16 phones. 18 is the iOS. Did any of you install the beta of iOS 18 yet and use Siri? It's pretty clear with this new one that you're going to be able to talk to Siri as an LLM Like you do in chat GPT mode, which I think means they will not make themself dependent on chat GPT And they will siphon off half the searches that would have gone to chat GPT So I see that as a serious reason not very good you Kellin You know this because when you were driving me to the airport.

50:43Yes, we tested it didn't work You tried you tried he tried to he tries to execute this joke where he's like hey Siri sent from Pauli Haapatia, a message, and it was a very off -color message. I'm not going to say what it is. It was a spicy joke. And then it's like, okay, great. Sending Linda blah blah blah. I was like, no, don't send that joke to her. It hallucinates an almost sensitive, some woman in his contact. It would have been really damaging. It's not very good, Jason. It's not very good. What I would say is there are features of it where if you squint a little bit, you will see that Siri is going to be conversational.

51:20So when I was talking to it with music and, you know, you can have a conversation with it and do math like you can do with the chat GPT version and you have Microsoft doing that with their co -pilot and now Meta is doing it at the top of each one. So everybody's going to try to intercept the queries and the voice interface. So chat GPT -4 is now up against Meta, Siri, Apple, and Microsoft for that interface. It's going to be challenging, but let's talk about these metaglasses here. Meta showed off the AR glasses that Nick will pull up right now. These aren't goggles. Goggles look like ski goggles.

51:56That's what Apple is doing with their Vision Pro. Or when you see the MetaQuest, you know, how those work, those are VR with cameras that will create a version of the world. These are actual chunky sunglasses, like the ones I was wearing earlier. when I was doing the bit. So these let you operate in the real world and are supposedly extremely expensive. They made a thousand prototypes. They were lending a bunch of influencers and folks like Gary Vaynerchuk used them and they're not ready for prime time. But the way they work freeberg is there's a wristband that will track your fingers and your wrist movements.

52:35So you could be in a conversation like we are here on the pod. And below the desk, you could be moving your arm and hand around to be doing replies to incoming messages or whatever it is. What do you think of this AR vision of the world and meta making this progress? Well, I think it ties in a lot to the AI discussion because I think we're really witnessing this big shift from and this big transition in computing, probably the biggest transition since mobile. You know, we moved from mainframes to desktop computers. Everyone had kind of this computer on their desktop, but you used a mouse and keyboard to control it to mobile, where you had a keyboard and clicking and touching on the screen to do things on it.

53:19And now to what I would call this kind of ambient computing method. And, you know, I think the big difference is control and response. In directed computing, you're kind of telling the computer what to do. You're controlling it. You're using your mouse or your keyboard to go to this website. So you type in a website address. Then you click on the thing that you want to click on. And you kind of keep doing a series of work to get the computer to go access the information that you ultimately want to achieve your objective. But with ambient computing, you can more kind of cleanly state your objective without this kind of directive process.

53:55You can say, hey, I want to say I want to have dinner in New York next Thursday at the at a Michelin star restaurant at 530 book me something and it's done. And I think that there are kind of five core things that are needed for this to work, both in control and response. It's voice control, gesture control and eye control, or kind of the control pieces that replace, you know, mice and clicking and touching and keyboards. And then response is audio and kind of integrated visual, which is the idea of the goggles. Voice control works. Have you guys used the OpenAI voice control system lately? I mean, it is really incredible.

54:29I had my earphones in and I was like doing this exercise. I was trying to learn something. So I told OpenAI to start quizzing me on this thing. And I just did a 30 minute walk. And while I was walking, it was asking me quiz questions. And I would answer, tell me I was right or wrong. It was really this incredible dialogue experience. So I think the voice control is there. I don't know if you guys have used Apple Vision Pro, but gesture control is here today. You can do single finger movements with Apple Vision Pro. It triggers actions. And I control it's incredible. You look at the letters you want to have kind of spelled out.

54:59you look at the thing you want to activate and it does it. So all of the control systems for the Sampian computing are there. And then the AI enables this kind of audio response where it speaks to you. And the big breakthrough that's needed, that I don't think we're quite there yet, but maybe Zuck is highlighting that we're almost there. And Apple Vision Pro feels like it's almost there, except it's big and bulky and expensive, is integrated visual, where the ambient visual interface is always there, and you can kind of engage with it. So there's this big change. I don't think that mobile handsets are going to be around in 10 years.

55:28I don't think we're going to have this like phone in our pocket that we're like pressing buttons on and touching and telling it We're on the browser to go to the browser interface is going to go away. I think so much of how computing is done How much how we integrate with data in the world and how the computer ultimately fetches that data and does stuff with it for us It's going to completely change to this ambient model. So I'm I'm pretty excited about this evolution But I think that what we're seeing with Zuck what we saw with Apple Vision Pro and all of the open AI demos they all kind of converge on this very incredible shift in computing that will kind of become this ambient system that exists everywhere all the time.

56:05And I know folks have kind of mentioned this in the past, but I think we're really seeing it kind of all come together now with these five key things. Traumatheny thoughts on Facebook's progress with AR and how that might impact computing and interfaces when paired with language models. I think David's right that there's something that's going to be totally new and unexpected. So I agree with that part of what Friedberg says. I am still not sure that glasses are the perfect form factor to be ubiquitous. When you look at a phone, a phone makes complete sense for literally everybody, right? man, woman, old, young, every race, every country of the world, it's such a ubiquitously obvious form factor.

57:06But the thing is like that initial form factor was so different than what it replaced, even if you looked at like flip phones versus that first generation iPhone. So I do think I mean, I think that's the way I'm going to be able to get a free burger right, that there's like this new way of interacting that is ready to explode onto the scene. And I think that these guys have done a really good job with these classes. I mean, like, I give them a lot of credit for sticking with it and iterating through it and getting it to this place. It looks meaningfully better than the vision probe to be totally honest.

57:41But I'm still not convinced that we've explored the best of our creativity in terms of the devices that we want to use with these AI models. You need some visual interface. I think the question is where is the visual interface? Is it in the wall? No, but do you? Well, when you're asking, like, I want to watch Chimoff on Rogan. Like, I don't just want to hear. I want to see it. Like, when I want to visualize stuff, I want to visualize it. I want to look at the food on buying online. I want to look at pictures of the restaurant I'm going to go to. But how much of that time when you say those things?

58:11Are you not near some screen that you could just project and broadcast that? I mean, I think it's probably... If the use case is I'm walking in the park and I need to watch TV at the same time, I don't think that's a real use. I think you're on this one wrong, Shamak, because I saw this revolution in Japan maybe 20 years ago. They got obsessed with augmented reality. There were ton of startups right as they started getting to the mobile phones. and the use cases were really very compelling and we're starting to see them now in education. And when you're at dinner with a bunch of friends, how often does picking up your phone and looking at a message to stir the flow?

58:51Well, people will have glasses on, they'll be going for walks, they'll be driving, they'll be at a dinner party, they'll be with their kids, and you'll have something on like focus mode, whatever the equivalent is in Apple, and a message will come in from your spouse or from your child, but you won't have to take your phone out of your pocket. And I think once these things weigh a lot less, you're going to have four different ways to interact with your computer in your pocket your phone, your watch, your AirPods, whatever you have in your ears and the glasses and I bet you glasses are going to take like a third of the tasks you do.

59:21I mean, what is the point of taking out your phone and watching the Uber come to you? But seeing that little strip that tell you the Uber is 20 minutes away, 15 minutes away, or what the gate number is. I don't know. So that anxiety. Well, I don't know if it's anxiety, but I just think it's ease of use. Fifteen minutes. Fifteen minutes. That's the definition. I think it adds up. I think it's taking your phone out of your pocket 50 times a day. Those are all useless notifications. The whole thing is the train yourself to realize that it'll come when it comes. Okay. Zach, do you have any thoughts on this impressive demo or the demo that people who've seen have said is pretty, pretty darn compelling.

59:55I think it does look pretty impressive. of, I mean, you can wear these meta Orion glasses around, I know, and look and look like a human. I mean, you might look like Eugene Levy, but you'll still look like a semi normal person. Whereas you can't wear the Apple Vision Pro. I mean, you can't wear that around. What do they don't look good? You don't like them? Nick, can you please tell me the picture of Eugene Levy? Or if I should, I mean, it seems like a major advancement, certainly compared to Apple Vision Pro. I mean, you know, you're really impressive. You don't need to worry about the Apple Vision Pros anymore at all.

1:00:29I mean, those things came and went.

1:00:35It seems to me that, who's that going to be? Meta is executing extremely well. I mean, you had the very successful cost -cutting, which Wall Street liked, published that letter, which I give him credit for, regretting the censorship that met it did, which was at the best of the deep state. They made huge advancements in AI. I don't think they were initially on the cutting edge of that, but they've caught up. And now they're leading the overall. Yeah, with with llama 3 .2. And now it seems to me that they're ahead on augmented reality. Ever since Zach grew out there here. Yeah, gold chain. Don't ever, don't ever cut the hair.

1:01:14It's like Samson. I mean, yeah, it's like Samson. Based, based, Zach is the best. Okay, does not give up. I mean, by the way, I want to be clear. I think these glasses are going to be successful. My only comment is that I think that when you look back 25 and 30 years from now and say that was the killer AI device, I don't think it's going to look like something we know today. That's my only point. And maybe it's going to be this thing that Sam Altman and Johnny I have are baking up that's supposed to be this AI infused iPhone killer. Maybe it's that thing. I doubt that will be a pair of glasses or a phone or a pin.

1:01:54If you think about, like, so take the constraints on, I don't need a keyboard because I'm not going to be typing stuff. I don't need a normal browser interface. You could see a device come out that's almost like smaller than the palm of your hand that gives you enough of the visuals. and all it is is a screen with maybe two buttons on the side. And it's all audio driven. You put a headset in and you're basically just talking or using gesture or looking at it to kind of describe where you want things to go. And it can create an entirely computing interface because AI does all of these incredible things with predictive text, with gesture control, with eye control and with audio control.

1:02:32And then it can just give you what you want on a screen and all you're getting is a simple interface. So, Jamat, you maybe write it, it might be a big watch or a handheld thing that's much smaller than an iPhone and just all it is is a screen with nothing. I really resonate when you talk about voice only because I think it's like, I think there's like a part of like social decorum that all of these goggles and glasses violate. And I think we're going to have to decide as a society whether that's going to be okay. And then I think like are when you like go trekking in Nepal or you're going to encounter or somebody wearing AR glasses, I think the odds are pretty low, but you do see people today with a phone.

1:03:13So what do they replace it with? And I think voice as a modality is, I think it's more credible that that could be used by 8 billion people. I think social fabrics more affected by people staring at their phones all the time. You sit on a bus, you sit at a restaurant, you go to dinner with someone and they're staring at their phone, like spouses, friends, we all deal with it, where you feel like you're not getting attention from the person that you're interfacing with in the real world because they're so connected to the phone. If we can disconnect the phone, but still take away this kind of addictive feedback loop system, but still give you this computing ability in a more ambient way that allows you to remain engaged in the physical world.

1:03:49I think everyone can say it. You could say it's actually your feeling when he's playing chess and not paying attention. Yeah, I'll be playing chess in my AR glasses while pretending to listen to you. You would say it's so fun. He's he's vitamin. You got vitamin. One point I want to just hit on is that the reason why these glasses have a chance of working is because of AI. I mean, Facebook initially made these. That's exactly my point. That's exactly my point. Facebook or men have made these huge investments before AI was a thing. And in a way, I think they've kind of gotten lucky because what AI gives you is voice and audio.

1:04:25So you can talk to the glasses or whatever the wearable is. It can talk to you. That's the five things. Natural language. and computer vision allows it to understand the world around you. So whenever this device is, it can be a true personal digital assistance in the world. And that's why you, if you guys play with Apple Vision Pro, have any of you actually used it to any extent? No, I used it for a day or a night when we were playing poker, and I've never used it again since. Right, which I get. But I do think that it has these tools in it. Similar to the original Macintosh had these incredible graphics editors like MacPaint and all these things that like people didn't like get addicted to at the time, but they became this like tool that completely revolutionized everything and computing later and fonts and so on.

1:05:15But like this I think has these tools, Apple Vision Pro with gesture control and the keyboard and the eye control. those aspects of that device highlight where this could all go, which is this, these systems can kind of be driven without keyboards, without typing, without like, you know, moving your finger around without clicking on buttons. I think that's the key observation. I really agree with what you just said. It's this, it's this idea that you're just, you're liberated from the hunting and petting and tapping. It's, you don't need to control the computer anymore. The computer now knows what you want.

1:05:49And then the computer can just go and do the work. Well, this is the behavior change that I don't think we're fully giving enough credit to. So today, part of what Jason talked about, what I call the anxiety is because of the information architecture of these apps that is totally broken. And the reason why it's broken is when you tell an AI agent, get me the cheapest car right now to go to XYZ place. It will go and look at lift and Uber and whatever. it'll provision the car and then it'll just tell you when it's coming and it will break this cycle that people have of having to check these apps for what is useless filler information and when you strip a lot of that notification traffic away I think you'll find that people start looking at each other in the face more often and I think that that's a net positive so we'll we'll met a cell hundreds of millions of these things I suspect probably but all I'm saying is if you look backwards 30 years from now, what is the device that sells in the billions?

1:06:50It's probably not a form factor that we understand today. I just want to point out like the form factor you're seeing now is going to get greatly reduced. These were some of the early Apple, I don't know if you guys remember these, but Frog design made these crazy tablets in the 80s that were the eventual inspiration for the iPad, you know, 25 years later, I guess. Exactly. And so that's the journey we're on here right now. That's right. This clunky, and these are not functional. What are the Apple Newton? The Apple Newton is like, exactly. People forget about that. And then it turns out, hey, you throw away the stylus, and you got an iPhone, right?

1:07:27And everything gets a million X better. The other subtle thing that's happening, which I don't think we should sleep on, is that the AirPods are probably going to become much more socially acceptable to wear on a 24 by seven basis because of this feature that allows it to become a useful hearing aid. And I think as it starts being worn in more and more social environments and as the form factor of that shrinks, that's when I really do think we're going to find some very novel use case, which is, you know, very unobtrusive. It kind of blends into your own physical makeup as a person without it really sticking out.

1:08:05I think that's when you'll have a really killer feature. But I think that the the air pods as hearing aids will also add a lot. So Meta's doing a lot, Apple's doing a lot, but I don't think we've yet seen the superkiller hardware device yet. And there was an interesting waypoint. Microsoft had the first tab was here's the Microsoft tablet for those of you watching. That came, you know, I don't know if it was the late 90s or early 2000s Friedberg. If you remember it, these like incredibly bulky tablets that Bill Gates was bringing to all the events. 99, 2000, that era. So you get a lot of false starts.

1:08:41They're spending, I think, close to $20 billion a year on this ARV. Anyway, we're definitely on this path to ambient computing. I don't think this whole like you got to control a computer thing is anything my kids are going to be doing in 20 years. This is the convergence of like three or four really interesting technological waves. All right. Just a dovetailing with tech jobs in the static team size. There is a report of a blue collar boom, the tool belt generation is what Gen Z is being referred to as reporting the Wall Street Journal reports, hey tech jobs have dried up. We're all seeing that.

1:09:16And according to indeed developer jobs down with 30 % since February of 2020, pre -COVID, of course, if you look at layoffs .fyi, you'll see all the tech jobs that have been eliminated It's since 2022 over a half million of them. A bunch of things at play here and the Wall Street Journal notes that entry level tech workers are getting hit the hardest, especially all these recent college graduates. And if you look at a historical college enrollment, let's call that chart. Nick, you can see your undergraduate graduate and total with the red line. We peaked at 21 million people in either graduate school or undergraduate in 2010.

1:09:56and that's come down to 8 .6 million at the same time. Obviously in the last 12 years, you've had the population has grown. So this is even, you know, if it was a percentage basis, would be even more dramatic. So what's behind this, a poll of a thousand teens this summer found that about half believe a high school degree, trade program or two -year degree, best meets their career needs and 56 percent said real world on the job experience is more valuable than obtaining college degree, something you've talked about with your own personal experience, Shamath at Waterloo doing apprenticeships, essentially.

1:10:31Your thoughts on generation tool balance, such a positive trend. I mean, there's so many reasons why this is good. I'll just list a handful that come to the top of my mind. The first and probably the most important is that it breaks this stranglehold that But the university education system has on America's kids. We have tricked millions and millions of people into getting trillions of dollars in debt on this idea that you're learning something in university that's somehow going to give you economic stability and ideally freedom. And it has turned out for so many people to not be true. It's just so absurd and unfair that that has happened.

1:11:21So if you can go and get a trade degree and live a economically productive life where you can get married and have kids and take care of your family and do all the things you want to do, that's going to put an enormous amount of pressure on higher ed. Why does it charge so much? What does it give in return? That's one thought. The second thought, which is much more narrow, Peter Tio has that famous saying where if If you have to put the word science behind it, it's not really a thing. And what we are going to find out is that that was true for a whole bunch of things where people went to school, like political science and social science.

1:11:56Social science. But I always thought that computer science would be immune. But I think he's going to be right about that too, because you can spend two or three hundred thousand dollars getting in debt to get a computer science degree, but you're probably better off learning JavaScript and learning these tools in some kind of a boot camp for far, far less and graduating in a position to make money right away. So those are just two ideas. I think that it allows us to be a better functioning society. So I am really supportive of this trend. Saks your thoughts on this generation tool melt where we're reading about and you know the sort of combination with static team size that we're seeing in technology, companies keeping the number of employees the same or trending down while they grow 30 % year over year.

1:12:44Oh my God, I'm like so sick of this topic of job loss or job disruption. I got so much trouble last week. You asked a question about whether the upper middle class is going to suffer because they're all going to be put out of work by AI and I just kind of brush it off, not because I'm advocating for that, but just because I don't think it's going to happen. This whole thing about job loss is so overdone. There's going to be a lot of job disruption. But in the case of coders, as an example, I think we can say that coders, depending on who you talk to, are 10, 20, 30 % more productive as a result of these coding assistant tools.

1:13:20But we still need coders. You can't automate 100 % of it. And the world needs so many of them. The need for software is unlimited. We can't hire enough of them at glue, by the way, shout out. If you're looking, if you're a coder who is afraid of not being able to get a job, apply for one at glue. believe me, we're hiring. I just think that this is so overdone, there's going to be a lot of disruption in the knowledge worker space. Like we talked about the workflow at call centers and to service factories, there's going to be a lot of change. But at the end of the day, I think there's going to be plenty of work for humans to do.

1:13:57And some of the work will be more in the blue collar space. And I agree with Jamal that this is a good thing. I think there's been and perhaps an over emphasis on the idea that the only way to get ahead in life is to get a fancy degree from one of these universities. And we've seen that many universities, they're just not that great, they're overpriced. You end up graduating with a mountain of debt and you get a degree that, you know, maybe even far worse than computer science, that's just completely worthless. So if people learn more vocational skills, if they skip college because they have a for a cleverity to do something that doesn't need that degree.

1:14:34I think that's a good thing. And that's healthy for the economy. Friedberg is just like just the pendulum swung too much and education got too expensive spending 200k to make $50 ,000 a year distinctly different than our childhoods or I'm sorry, our adolescence when we were able to go to college for 10k a year, 20k a year, graduate with some low tens of thousands in debt. If you did take that and then your entry level job was 50, 60, 70k coming out of college. What are your thoughts here? Is this a value issue with college? Well, yeah, I think the market's definitely correcting itself. I think for years as Chimoff said, there was kind of this belief that if you went to college, there was regardless of the college, there was this outcome where you would make enough money to justify the debt you're taking on.

1:15:18And I think folks have woken up to the fact that that's not reality. Again, if there was a free market, remember, most people go to college with student loans, loans, and all student loans are funded by the federal government. So the cost of education has ballooned, and the underwriting criteria necessary for this free market to work has been completely destroyed because of the federal spending in the student loan program. There's no discrimination between one school or another. You can go to Trump University, or you could go to Harvard. It doesn't matter. You still get a student loan. even if at the end of the process you don't have a degree that's valuable.

1:15:58And so I think folks are now waking up to this fact and the market is correcting itself which is good. I'll also say that I think that there's this premium with generally mass production and industrialization of the human touch. And what I mean is if you think about hey you could go to the store and buy a bunch of cheap food off of the store shelves. You could buy a bunch of Hershey's chocolate bars. Or you can go to a Swiss chocolate here in downtown San Francisco, pay $20 for a box of handmade chocolates. You'll pay that premium for that better product. Same with clothes. There's this big trend and kind of handmade clothes and high -end luxury goods.

1:16:39Spoke. Artisanal. Artisanal. Yeah. Handmade and similarly, I think that there is a premium in human service in the partnership with a human. It's not just about blue collar jobs. It's about having a waiter talk to you and serve you. If you go to a restaurant, instead of having a machine spit out the food to you, there's an experience associated with that that you'll pay a premium for. There's hundreds and hundreds of microbreweries in the United States that in aggregate outsell, Budweiser and Miller and even Modelo today. And that's because they're handcrafted by local people and there's an artisan craftsmanship.

1:17:18So while technology and AI are going to completely reduce the cost of a lot of things and increase the production and productivity of those things, one of the complementary consequences of that is that there will be an emerging premium for human service. And I think that there will be an absolute burgeoning and blossoming in the salaries and the availability and demand for human service in a lot of walks of life. Certainly there's all the work at home, the electricians and the plumbers and so on, but also fitness classes, food, personal service around tutoring and learning and developing oneself.

1:17:56There's gonna be an incredible blossoming I think in human service jobs and they don't need to have a degree in polypsi to be performed. I think that there will be a lot of people that will be very happy in that world. How do you see the differentiation the person makes freeberg and doing that job versus the agent or the AI or whatever? Well, these are in person human jobs. So if I want to do a fitness class, do I want to stare at the tonal? This would I'm asking you. Yeah, like yeah, I think I think that there's an aspect of It look it's like your Laura Piana like you you talk about the story of Laura Piana Where is the Vakunya coming from?

1:18:31How's it made? Who's involved in it? Like? Yes, look you're you're god. Look at those same guys who say the white don't stop preberg I could give you truffle flavoring out of a can But you you love the white truffles you want to Italy if you want the storytelling. There's an aspect Like yeah, and I think that there's an aspect of humanity that we pay a premium that we do and will look at see crushes I don't know how much stuff you guys buy an Etsy. I love buying from Etsy. I love finding handmade stuff on my underwear for I think there's an aspect of this that I have so many jokes right? I've never used that seat, but I'm going to try it.

1:19:13Have you guys taken music lessons lately? My kids do piano lessons. So last year I started ducking in and doing a 45 minute piano lesson with the piano teacher. There's just like a great aspect to paying for these services to getting you to bring them. Oh, here we go. You can play the harmonica. I just like what do you play? I want to play some Zach Bryan songs and he's got a couple songs I like with the harmonica in them. So I just got harmonica. My daughter and I have been playing harmonica. Yeah. I'm teaching myself. Let's hear it. Yeah, let's hear it. I'll play it next week. I might be deep in the laboratory.

1:19:47It's not a bit. It could be a bit. But I'll write you a story. I'll write you a story. I'll write you a song next week. The little shy. He's a little shy. No, no, I'll do. I'll write a song for you. I'll do the trials and tribulations of Donald Trump. And I'll do a little Bob Dylan send up song for you. The loads of interview with Bob Dylan, I don't know when it was recently about how, and then Bradley, that clip, which I really could summation. With that Bradley clip about magic. Yeah, some of those songs, I don't know how I wrote them. They just came out in the best, But the best part is what he said, what he said, did that anymore?

1:20:26He's like, no, but I did it once. No, but I did it. What did he say now? What an incredible thing in something? Yeah That's really great. That's something grounding. It's really ground to stand too soon. There is no Hands of that. Yeah, that's an incredible clip But I just want to wrap or you want to keep talking about more stuff. We were at 90 minutes Let me just tell you something. I think there's gonna be a big war I think by the time the show airs, Israel's encouraging into Lebanon is going to get bigger, it's going to escalate. And by next week we could be in a full -blown multinational war in the Middle East.

1:21:01And if I am a betting man, I would bet that the odds are more than 30, 40 percent that this happens before the election that this conflict in the Middle East escalates. Thank you for bringing this up. I am not asking anybody to go listen to what I my interview with Rogan, but I will say this part of why I was so excited to go and talk to him in a long form. Format was this issue of war is I think the existential crisis of this election and of this moment. And I really do agree with you, Freiburg. There is a non -trivial high probability, the highest it's ever been, that we are just bumbling and sleepwalking into a really bad situation we can't walk back from.

1:21:54I really hope you're wrong. And here's the situation I really hope you're wrong. If Israel incurs further into Lebanon going after Hezbollah And Iran ends up getting involved in a more active way. Does Russia start to provide supplies to Iran? Like we are supplying to Ukraine today? Does this sort of bring everyone to a line? Just to give you a sense, you know, of the scale of what Israel could then respond with, Iran has 600 ,000 active U .D. military and other 350 ,000 in reserve. They have dozens of ships. They have 19 submarines. They have a 600 kilometer range missile system. Israel has 170 ,000 active duty and half a million reserve personnel, 15 warships, five submarines, potentially up to 400 nuclear weapons, including a very wide range of tactical sub -one kiloton nuclear weapons, small payload.

1:22:51You could see that if Israel starts to feel incurred upon further, they could respond in a more aggressive way with what is, you know, by far and away, you know, the most significantly stock arsenal and military force in the Middle East. Again, we've talked about what are these other countries going to do? What is Jordan going to do in this situation? How is it? By the way, what is Russia going to do? Well, the Russia you praying thing meanwhile still goes on and we saw in our group chat, One of our friends posted, but Russia basically said any more attacks on our land, you know, we reserve all rights including nuclear response.

1:23:33That is insane. Well, you know, so just to give you a sense. I think it's insane. How are we here? Yeah. So the nuclear bombs that were set off during World War II. So I just want to show you how crazy this is. Do you see that image on the left? That all the way over on the left. That's a bunker buster. You guys remember those from Afghanistan and the damage that those bunker buster bonds calls? Hiroshima is a 15 -kiloton nuclear, and you can see the size of it there on the left. That's a zoom in of the image on the right. And the image on the right starts to show the biggest ever tested was at Tsar Bomba by the Soviets.

1:24:18This was a 50 megaton bomb. It caused shockwaves that went around the earth three times. They could be felt as seismic shockwaves around the earth three times from this one detonation. Today, there are a lot of point one to one kiloton nuclear bombs that are kind of considered these tactical nuclear weapons that kind of fall closer to between the bunker buster and the Hiroshima. And that's really where a lot of folks get concerned that if Israel or Russia or others get cornered in a way, and there's no other tactical response that that is what then gets pulled out. Now if someone detonates a point one or one kiloton nuclear bomb, which is going to look like a mega bunker buster, what is the other side and what's the world going to respond with?

1:25:04But that's how on the brink we are. And there's 12 ,000 nuclear weapons with an average payload of 100 kilotons around the world. The US has a large stockpile. Russia has the largest. Many of these are hair trigger alert systems. China has the third largest. And then Israel and India and so on. It is a very concerning situation because if anyone does get pushed to the brink that has nuclear weapon and they pull out a tactical nuke, does that mean that game is on? And that's why I'm so nervous about where this all leads to. If we can't decelerate, it's very scary because you can very quickly see this thing.

1:25:42I am the most objectively scared I've ever been. And I think that people grossly underestimate how quickly this could just spin up out of control. And right now, not enough of us are spending the time to really understand why that's possible. And then also try to figure out what's the offering. And I think it's I think it's just incredibly important that people take the time to figure out that this is a non -zero probability. And this is probably for many of us the first time in our lifetime where you could really say that. Well I think Freeberg's right that we're at the beginning stages of I think what we'll soon be referred to is the third Lebanon war.

1:26:23The first one was in 1982, Israel went into Lebanon and occupied it until 2000 that it went back in 2006, left after about a month, and now we're in the Third War. It's hard to say exactly how much this will escalate. The IDF is exhausted after the war in Gaza. There's significant opposition within Israel and within the armed forces to a big ground invasion of Lebanon. on. So far, most of the fighting has been Israel using its irresuperiarty overroming firepower against southern Lebanon. And I think that if Israel makes a ground invasion, they're giving his Bala the war that his Bala wants. I mean, his Bala would love for this to turn into a guerrilla war in southern Lebanon.

1:27:14So I think there's still some question about whether Netanyahu will do that or not. At the same time, it's also possible that his Bala will attack Northern Israel. Nasrallah has threatened to invade the Galilee in response to what Israel is doing. So there's multiple ways this could escalate. And if his Bala in Israel are in a full -scale war with If ground forces, it could be very easy for Iran to get pulled into it on his ball of side. And if that happens, I think it's just inevitable that the United States will be pulled into this war. So yeah, look, I think we are drifting and then we have been drifting into a regional war in the Middle East that ideally would not pull in the U .S.

1:28:05I think the U .S. should try to avoid being pulled in, but I think very likely we'll be pulled in if it escalates. And then meanwhile, in terms of the war in Ukraine, I mean, I've been warning about this for two and a half years how dangerous this situation was, and that's why we should have availed ourselves of every diplomatic opportunity to make peace. And we now know, because there's been such universal reporting, that in Istanbul, in the first month of the Ukraine war, there was an opportunity to make a deal with Russia, where Ukraine would get all of its territory back. It's just that Ukraine would have to agree not to be part of NATO.

1:28:40It would have to agree to be neutral and not part of the Western military block that was so threatening to Russia. The Biden administration refused to make that deal. They sent in Boris Johnson to scuttle it. They threw cold water on it. They blocked it. They told Zelensky we'll give you all the weapons you need to fight Russia. Zelensky believed in that. It has not worked out that way. Ukraine is getting destroyed. It's very hard to get honest reporting on this from the mainstream media. but the sources I've read suggest that the Ukrainians are losing about 30 ,000 troops per month, and that's just KIA.

1:29:16I don't even think that's wounded, that on a bad day, they're suffering 1200 casualties. It's more than even during that failed counteroffensive last summer that Ukraine had during that time, they were losing about 20 ,000 troops a month. So the level of carnage is escalating. Russia has more of everything, more weapons, more firepower, air superiority, and they are destroying Ukraine. And it's very clear, I think that Ukraine, within, it could be the next month, it could be the next two months, it could be the next six months, I think they're eventually going to collapse, they're getting close to being combat in capable.

1:29:53And in a way that poses the biggest danger because the closer Ukraine gets to collapse, the more the West is going to be tempted to intervene directly in order to save them. And that is what Zelensky was here in the U .S. doing over the past week, is arguing for direct involvement by America in the Ukraine War to save him. How did he propose this? He said we want to be directly admitted to NATO immediately. That was his request. And he called this the victory plan. So in other words, his plan for victory is to get America involved in the war and fighting it for him. But that is the only chance Ukraine has, and it is possible that the Biden -Hersan administration will agree to do that or at least agree to some significant escalation.

1:30:38So far, I think Biden to his credit has resisted another Zelensky demand, which is the ability to use America's long -range missiles and British long -range missiles, storm shadows against Russian cities. That is what Zelensky is asking for. Zelensky wants a major escalation of the war because that is the only thing that's going to save him, save his side and maybe even his neck personally. And so we're one mistake away from the very dangerous situation that Shemoth and Freeberg have described. If a president Biden who is basically senile or a president of Harris agree to one of these Zelensky requests, we could very easily find ourselves in a direct war with the Russians.

1:31:21the wallets into World War III is what it should be called. And the reason why this could happen is because we don't have a fair media that's fairly reported anything about this war. I mean Trump is on the campaign trail making I think very valid points about this war that the Ukrainian cause is doomed and that we should be seeking a peace deal and a settlement before this is conspirell into World War III. That is fundamentally correct, but the media portrays that as being pro -Russian and pro -Putin And if you say that you want peace, you are basically on the take from Putin and Russia. That is what the media has told the American public for three years.

1:31:57The definition of liberalism has always been being completely against war of any kind and being completely in favor of free speech of economies. That's what being a liberal means. We've lost the script. And I think that people need to understand that this is the one issue where if we get it wrong, literally nothing else matters. And we are sleepwalking and tiptoeing into a potential massive world war. Jeffrey Sachs said it perfectly. You don't get a second chance in the nuclear age. You do not get a second chance. And for me, I have become a single issue voter. This is the only issue to me that matters.

1:32:45We We can sort everything else out. We can figure it all out. We can find common ground and reason. Should taxes go up, should taxes go down. Let's figure it out. Should regulations go up, should regulations go down. We can figure it out. But we are fighting a potential nuclear threat on three fronts. How have we allowed this to happen? Russia, Iran, China. You cannot underestimate that when you add these kinds of risks on top of each other, something can happen here. And I don't think people really know. They're too far away from it. They're too many generations removed from it. Or is something you heard maybe your grandparents talk about now and you just thought, okay, whatever.

1:33:33I lived it. It's not good. I mean, during the Cuban Missile Crisis, all of America was huddled around their TV sets worried about what would happen. There is no similar concern in this day and age about the escalatory wars that are happening. There's a little bit of concern, I think, about what's happening in the Middle East. There's virtually no concern about what's happening in Ukraine because people think it can't affect them, but it can. And one of the reasons it could affect them is because we do not have a fair debate about that issue in the US media. The media has simply caricatured and say opposition to the war is being propoten.

1:34:11So I would say that when every pundit and every person in a position to do something about it says you have nothing to worry about, you probably have something to worry about. And so when everybody is trying to tell you, everybody, that this is not a risk, it's probably a bigger risk than we think. Yeah, they're protesting too much. How can you say it's not a risk? Me think, without a doubt, protest it. Right. All right. Love you, boys. Bye -bye. We'll let your winners ride. Brain man David Sackett. We open source it to the fans and they've just gone crazy with it. I'm the queen of King Wild. I'm going on a win.

1:35:06What? Your winner's ride. Besties are gone. Go through it. That's my dog. Can you give it a wish? You're driving. Wait, sit down. Wait, sit down. Oh man, my ham is the actual meat. We should all just get a room and just have one big hug or two because they're all just like this sexual tension that we just need to release some of them. What, your, the beef? What, your, your beef? Beef, what? We need to get merch. I'm doing all of it.

1:35:43I'm doing all of it. I'm doing all of it.