Red-pilled Billionaires, LA Fire Update, Newsom's Price Caps, TikTok Ban, Jobless MBAs

29:25And in this case, his executive order is indefinitely. So on an indefinite basis, you cannot raise the price of goods and services, which generally applies to consumer goods like food and emergency supplies. but it also applies to building materials and services related to housing work. So, if you want to attract builders, if you want to attract contractors, if you want to attract electricians and plumbers to go to the LA area, you have to allow the market to do its job. If I'm a plumber operating in Sacramento or in Phoenix and I'm like, man, I could make some money if I go to LA, you will see an influx of service providers and an influx of goods to support the rebuilding effort in Southern California.

30:09That's the way the free market should work. Is there's an opportunity in the market, folks show up, they say, great, I can make money, I'm gonna come here and do this work. And as more folks show up, they begin to compete on price and eventually the cost kind of normalizes and you end up finding what is now the new fair market value between the bid and the ask. The people that are saying, hey, I'll do the work, they're the ask. And hey, I need people to do work, that's the bid. And you find a price. But the benefit of that is you increase the supply. You increase the supply of goods. You increase the supply of service providers of contractors There is a home building dirt right now in the United States So this is an amazing opportunity because they can now move to LA Build homes we can get a rapid reconstruction effort underway Except the governor just said we can't pay people 10 % higher than what they were getting paid right before This happened on an indefinite basis and then Karen Bass created a hotline you can go to LA 311 and report people if they're trying to charge too much.

31:07And then the, you know, the Stasi will come and investigate you and determine that you're charging too much. I understand that there's a strong moral imperative and incentive to say we got to stop price gouging. We don't want people to get hurt. But the second order effect is you're actually hurting the market and you're hurting the rebuild effort because you're reducing the incentive for folks to come in and fill the void in the market that is necessary for us to to accelerate the development of 15 ,000 homes in a very short period of time. The alternative now is people are gonna be sitting around and I already spoke to a couple of friends.

31:37I'm sure you guys have that are like, I try calling architects, I try calling contractors, people that live in this area that have been affected. I cannot get anyone to return my call. There is not enough service providers down there. You're gonna end up waiting six, seven years to get your home rebuilt. Now what do you do? You own a lot, you don't have a home to live in. And then there's this other thing where we can't take unsolicited offers on the home. That was the other executive orders. If you want to pull that one up, the governor said, it is illegal to make an unsolicited offer on a piece of real estate in one of these affected zip codes.

32:09I don't know what that happened in Hawaii that makes the governor keep referencing the Hawaii story as if there were people that were taken advantage of and we need to protect the citizens of LA. But I'm pretty sure that having an increase in the number of offers coming in for real estate. Absolutely. One of these affected areas increases liquidity in the market, it increases the buying behavior, and that will ultimately drive prices up, and that will ultimately make it easier by having more liquidity for some of these folks who owned burn down lots to be able to sell their lot, take their insurance check, move to another neighborhood, and go somewhere else because they're gonna have to otherwise wait six or seven years to build a home.

32:49Oh, right. All the music. Yeah. I think you're a little bit off the deep end with some of this stuff, because I think you're not being totally fair in representing what this EO says. And that's coming from me. I mean, I am not a newson fan, okay? And I think he is completely and totally incompetent. But I'll just take the other side of this, which is that I read the EO and I actually think it's somewhat reasonable. and I didn't connect the dots with the EO and the real estate market. And the reason is that if you read all of what he said, the EO is hyper -specific to unsolicited offers to a very specific handful of zip codes and it was time -boxed for three months.

33:36So he said, making any unsolicited offer to an owner of real estate property located in the areas encompassed by any names a bunch of zip goes I think there was like one to yep there's like 12 or 13 of them okay so unsolicited okay yep to to acquire any interest in real property for an amount less than the fair market value of the property on January 6th so before the fire started and for the home farm down and he said that's prohibited for three months that's it for three months. And the reason I think he said that is that if you just scope out a little bit just from this moment in Los Angeles, the problem is that after natural disasters, there is a spike in fraudulent activities.

34:27And there are people that try to take advantage of that situation to make money. So for example, after hurricane, we saw this in Florida, people pose as contractors, they come in and they offer inflated prices, they offer poor quality of work and especially when you sort of deregulate for that moment where there's less checks, there's less folks involved because you're trying to speed up the process, you can have a bunch of pressure tactics that work against the best interests of the person trying to rebuild. On the wildfire side, there is this crazy thing Nick, I'll send you the link from KTLA that talked about these folks called fire chasers, which are essentially like wildfire scammers They're ambulance chancers, but during fire.

35:11Okay. So, so my point is, yeah. I don't disagree with his incompetence, okay? And I think he is totally out of touch. I think there's a broken cartel that runs the state that's going to drive this state into just complete disrepair. He was going to negligent. Well, you can't say a state that has $322 billion budget is already bankrupt. It's it's teetering on a path where we won't be able to return and we can debate that but my point is I Just think despite all of this. He's grossly negligent Karen Bass is grossly negligent The California cartel is breaking this date But on this specific narrow thing I kind of will give him his flowers.

35:55I think it was like a decent smart good thing It's narrowly focused. There's a specific window here. That's time box So that the worst behaviors of other people are roughly managed and mitigated until we can figure out a better answer. You're saying that unsolicited offers on real estate can drive fraud? What you talked about, if there is a person that is, this does not prevent somebody from selling. I'm talking about services separately because he has a separate EO on services. This does not prevent anybody whose house burnt down from listing his law. That's right. You could sell it for a dollar.

36:31That's right. So, it's not, I think it's, it's not right and it's inaccurate to say that this is perturbing and distorting the free market. The idea that you cannot sell isn't what is in this year. The idea is some person shows up out of the blue and applies a pressure tactic to you when you're in a very stressful situation trying to deal with your insurance brokers, trying to figure out where your kids are going to go to school. But they're just making an offer. What's the pressure tactic? It's, why can't someone make an offer on your home? You want people to be out of it? David, here's what's going to happen.

37:03There are people that in the middle of all of this stress are trying to figure out how much money they can get. Somebody shows up and underbids what the true price discovery could be in a few months from now. You don't know whether you have to still pay back your mortgage. There will be people. It will be non -zero that will make a mistake. And I think that it's good to try to stop that. It doesn't absolve him from his incompetence. But this I think was reasonably good. What about the services piece, Tomat? The fact that you can't increase pricing on goods and services by more than 10 % for an indefinite period.

37:38Don't you think that that creates a disincentive for service providers to come into the state to come and address the level of the business? Obviously it does. Yeah. This grand ideal of the free market will solve everything isn't necessarily always true. It's great in theory. It reads well in a book, but real life is messy. Right now we are in the messy part. And we are in the most critical part where the abuses will be the highest. I suspect that in six months and nine months and 12 months, the free market will sort all of these things up. So if there's a governor who can implement some checks and balances to protect these folks who are probably totally days, like for example, we know some of our friends.

38:20I've spoken to them over the last few days. I've spoken to their wives.

38:27Honestly, shock. I'll say it in a horrible way. One person said this to me and I'll just quote him, the amount of people that have reached out to me. If you had asked me two weeks ago, why would so many people reach out with condolences? I would have thought that one of my children had died. That's what he said to me. And it completely struck me with, it's not on that same level, but the amount of emotional turmoil that these families are going through, probably approaches that I don't think many of those people are in a condition to make good decisions right now. So I almost think of cooling off period, actually benefits everybody.

39:02It can allow the free market to work in a few months from now. We're only talking 90 days. No, no, the services thing is indefinite. That's what I think is a little bit frustrating. Let me bring Mark in here. Mark, do you heard both sides of this debate? If you had a lot in the Pacific Palisades that burned down and people started making unsolicited offer. I've known you for 20 plus years. You're very sophisticated, obviously. But do you think that's a reasonable thing to do to put a moratorium on people making these low bid offers and then we'll get to the construction piece second, but what do you think of these unsolicited offers?

39:41Yes, unsolicited offers. Yeah. What do you think of that? I think what bothers me about it, there's a presumption and maybe Chimaltz write in it, you're getting me to think about it a little more than I was. But I'm pretty much where free work is that we're kind of treating these people like children. Because what we're saying is that they're not capable of making good decisions. So we need to protect them from themselves. And we're saying, so we don't want you to know that somebody is willing to pay X dollars for your property because you might take it and you might regret later that you took that This is kind of what Chimata is saying no in a in a very narrow window where you may not have The best and clearest ability to make the best decision for you because you're dealing with so many other crazy and That's you could say no You could say no, but you're presuming there's there's one side that bothers me that feels like what we've had from the Democratic party forever, which is this big wise overlord that's going to protect us from ourselves, from our worst natures.

40:55And then on the other hand, you're bringing up something, I hadn't thought about that I'm just thinking more about now, which is, well, maybe people could be taken advantage of at the margin because they're in, they feel like they're in a dire position. But if they think they're in a dire position, they might really be in a dire position. So they might really... Well, for me, I have a lot to say that you haven't heard back from the banks that own your mortgage about whether there's going to be a moratorium on mortgage payments. And so now you're trying to juggle paying for an extra rental and this house while you're trying to figure out where to put your kids.

41:33And somebody shows up and says, hey, I will buy this from you. I think that there are a lot of people who would otherwise be able to make a much more rational decision who may make a panic decision in that moment. And I think that if you give people a 90 -day cooling -off period, I think it at least shines a light on whether all of this governmental and other infrastructure can actually do something for these people. I do think that there is a moment at which you can't govern these things. And all I'm suggesting is a very narrow window of time where people's feelings of just like desperation are at their highest, I think that this is a decent thing to do.

42:13You know, there is some precedent for the state doing stuff like this. You know, in most states, there is a cooling off period with marriages and divorces. You have to wait three days to file either way to get married or to get divorced. Let's talk about the construction process here at Freeberg. because I think that's the most important one because we're gonna rebuild. If you don't pay a premium to get somebody to leave another market to come to this one, which is what's gonna be required. There are simply not enough construction people in any state. That's right. So now you're competing with another state.

42:47This immediately triggered the debate and dare I say, carage that Travis had around this issue with surge pricing for Uber, Lyft and Sidecar and a bunch of other folks who were kind of virtue signaling, we're like, we don't ever want to do search pricing. Therefore, there were never cars on the road on Friday and Saturday nights when people needed them or during, you know, inclement weather or snowstorms or on New Year's Eve. And he said, if you want to increase supply, we believe Uber should have availability. Lift took a different decision. We're going to have no search pricing and they just simply weren't available.

43:26So So maybe what do you think about that piece, Pinkus? You think that the free market and people should be able to say, you know what, I'll pay you time and a half to come here. I'll pay you double time to work Saturday and Sundays. I'll get a couple of RVs, put them in the back. If you want to have some folks live on the construction site and if you hit these dates, I'll pay you a bonus for hitting it. It doesn't seem like any of that would be wrong to me for somebody who had the ability to pay an incentive for somebody to move from another state would be out of line here. What are your thoughts on that?

44:02I agree. I mean, I'm pretty much just a free market believer. And so I think other than guardrails like Shamaah saying, and maybe I like the idea of cooling off periods, it kind of makes sense. But outside of that, when it comes to service providers, yeah, you have the opposite problem right now, which is like you're saying, you need to incentivize a huge construction for us to come to LA and the cost for them to get there to find housing themselves is going to be even higher or the amount of distance they're going to have to travel every day. So I think this could have real unintended consequences and just stop the wheels from turning on rebuilding all these homes or just make it way more complex.

44:56So I agree. How about any final thoughts on the rebuild and the free market in that regard? Yeah. I think this is where the government ineptitude is at its worst. I think that we need to dismantle this regulatory state that makes doing the right thing impossible. So specifically, the thing that Newsom did was essentially create a time expectation on when things will get permitted. And I think he said it was like six months. The problem is like this is what just goes to show you how insane the state has become. Even if you get a permit within six months, and this is where I do agree with Freeberg like getting service people in and being able to build something to spec safely is going to take 3, 4, 5, 6 years and it's going to be insane.

45:54And the example of the completing confidence of the California State government is if you contrast and compare this with how the state was able to respond in the Northridge earthquake. And the crazy thing which I thought was incredible was because after the 1994 Northridge earthquake, they rebuilt I -10, right? Which is like, that is like a crazy artery. In 66 days, guys, they rebuilt it. Not they permitted it, not that they were trying to get the California Coastal Commission to a pine on it, not a Sierra Club lawsuit about the upper land grouse, they rebuilt it. So you actually know what's possible in California if tradesmen are allowed to go to work.

46:38work. They can build incredibly complicated things with safety, with speed. This is where Newsom, I don't think, understands how the real market works. Because if you looked at that example, the real question you should be asking is, well, what has changed? Well, technology has gotten way better since then. The people are more skilled. There are more people to be able to do more of these jobs. And so why does it only take six months to just get the permit when, in 120 days, you could just rebuild an entire highway? Similarly, why aren't we saying that we expect these homes built in the next three years?

47:11Get these kids back in their homes and back in school. You know what they did on that? They offered a $200 ,000 per day early build bonus on that program back then. So they basically, the state declared we need this freeway reopened and here's the date. It was like 144 days and they're like, you'll get a $200 ,000 bonus for every day under $144 that you deliver it. So clever. Yeah. Show me an incentive. I'll show you an outcome. Exactly. The really interesting thing here is there are regulations that this is a unique opportunity to put in place. Nick, if you can pull it up, there was a home that wasn't burned in the Pacific Palisades and the architect talked about some of the design decisions there.

47:56You know, having stonescaping around your home, gravel, etc. And using these new materials and not having overhangs, which and then having vents into your attic, which is what a lot of homes have and the embers get into the attic, there's an overhang and they're not using and they're all wood built. You know, none of this is concrete, none of its brick. California is all wood. And so they probably should add some regulations about building things that are fireproof because if you had 100 homes that were all fireproof and built to withstand this That would act as a natural break and if you didn't have as much vegetation So there's probably a series of things that should be added here in terms of regulations while you're getting rid of some of the ones that are slowing you down But let's pivot over to oh, and then finally like allowing people to park their mobile homes in these places to have housing for construction to your point mark would be super critical and they block that kind of stuff.

48:54So when you need temporary housing in California, you can't do it. By the way, I want to, I want to hear what Frieberg has to say about insurance, but let me connect the dots between what you said and what he's about to say. There are three images I just want to show you guys and to bubble this up for everybody that isn't necessarily living in California and is consumed with what all of this means. And there's a bigger trend across the country that I think is just worth putting out there. So Nick, do you want to just show the first chart from FEMA? So this is basically a graph per locality all over the United States where FEMA tries to assess the disaster risk for living in a given area.

49:35And what you see here is that there's some risk in living on the eastern seaboard and And there's a lot of risk and it's growing for living on the Western Seaboard. And the two most complicated states that have to deal with this are clearly Florida and California. So that's one, which is this is a problem that isn't just focused on this one middle area. So then if you double click a little bit further, there's a company called CoreLogic. They publish a lot of real estate data. Here's a chart about the Western United States that just double clicks into wildfire risk. And I was shocked when I saw this.

50:13This is, first of all, most of California. This is like Nevada. This is Arizona. This is parts of Texas. This is Washington. I didn't even know the fire risk went up that high. But this is essentially a lot of the Western United States. And then the last chart goes through and it actually does, Core Logic does an assessment of the value at risk. So in California, it's three quarters of a trillion dollars that are at about 1 .26 million homes that are at moderate or great risk of fires. In Colorado, it's about 141 billion in Texas. It's 88 billion in Oregon. It's 45 billion in Arizona. It's 36 billion.

50:59The point is that everything you said, Jason, Now, it needs to get scaled out. Meaning, there needs to be a national level conversation. This can't be a bunch of city planners making code and making laws in a little municipality. Because that problem, what that shows you is we have a multi -trillion dollar risk to a lot of people in the Western United States, specifically around this issue, that has to get dealt with by code. All right, really interesting in New York. Finally, New York has put into place congestion pricing. I've been waiting for this my entire life. Here's a map. This went into a fact January 5th.

51:46This congestion pricing concept exists in London as everybody probably knows. Basically, if you're below Central Park, which is 6th -stage trade in Manhattan and you enter between 5am and 9pm, You're going to get, you know, on your easy pass, a charge of $9 cheaper than a bacon, egg, and cheese in Manhattan these days. If you're going clubbing in Manhattan between 9 p .m. and 5 a .m., it's just like two bucks. It's going to increase to $12 in 20, 28, and $15 in 20, 31 trucks pay more taxes pay less. The results have been awesome. Way times to get on the island are down 50 % across the board. Lincoln tunnel down 46 % Holland tunnel down 63 % Williams -Broad bridge down 35 % It's just an awesome effort When I live there man as a resident the traffic was nuts you can have emergency services move a lot faster you get rid of noise pollution you obviously get rid of air quality pollution for ice engines it's great for cabs great for pedestrians and great for bike riders the only people really complaining are are selfish and entitled people who drive their cars into Manhattan.

52:58That's at least my position on it. Opponents are saying it's a money grab for the transit authority because the money from this goes to make public transportation better. What do you think, Mark? Do you're in favor of this? Yeah, I think more generally, I feel like since the pandemic, what's been on my mind a lot, living still in San Francisco, I wanted to start a social network called Still Here. It's like, oh, you still live here? Me too. Someway for us to like come out of our houses and notice that you're here and I'm here, but we never leave our homes. I walk around this city at my own risk.

53:38And I like the city's, I feel like cities have lost the point. Like they've lost the plot. Like why we've kind of, we still live in cities or value them. But I feel like we have to go back to first principles and think like why did we move to cities in the first place and what was the value supposed to be and is that still the deal we're getting? It reserved have to be a new deal because we used to live in a city because it was economic. We were closer to our job and then we lived in a city because there was a high density of things that we wanted, cultural people, restaurants and the best cities really were the ones that are fun to walk around.

54:19And then we got to a point where it's not safe or clean to walk around. You don't work in the city anymore. And San Francisco started to feel like this gigantic, like retirement community. It's just, all these people who still live here because they're kids are in school maybe, or they grew up here. A lot of our friends left, went to Austin and other places. And we started, I don't know about Chimatt, but I think, Dave, but I think our family has a conversation probably twice a year of, should we move? Why haven't we moved? What's wrong with us? And so there's this questioning going on around cities, and I think it's a good question.

54:56And I think cities need to innovate aggressively to give, to be better. They have to compete with the other options again. They have to make it fun to be there, fun to work there. I think it's great that Daniel Lurie is mayor of San Francisco, go and he's putting smart people around him and they're trying to rethink first some attacking these core problems but also how do we make San Francisco fun again? So I love things like congestion pricing. I think now is the time to try every new innovation that you ever thought of and see what sticks and and figure out like how do you take this this tax?

55:40Not literally. I mean New York has a big tax, but this tax on all of us, whether it is that you can't walk across this city that you don't feel safe or that the good side of it being fun to be in, you know, is the deal is off. And so I think, you know, and I also, what I'm hoping Daniel Lurie does and other smart mayors is that they benchmark and they say, who's doing it really well around the world, whether it's dealing with homelessness or things like congestion pricing, who's innovating and doing it well and why aren't we doing it here? I mean, I think you've got to run these, you got to reinvent these cities and, you know, sorry to sound cliche, but I think you got to kind of take a start -up mentality and say, you're not going to live on your income and see anymore.

56:31You've got to reinvent this and we can't make companies come back to work, You know come back to the office. I mean the companies can make their employees, but it'd be really nice if the employees wanted to be there You know, you can't make people living California. So I'm in favor. Yeah, Chimaphanidotson Mark's point about making cities fun again and joyful again. It sounds like a pretty good platform. I Mean, I think he's right San Francisco sucks. It's trash. You never go there. Yeah, it's terrible and the reason that you don't like to go there is. It's dirty. It's disgusting. There's crime.

57:11There's grime. Everything just sucks there. Yeah. Freiberg, your thoughts on the Gotham City that city visited you and the city. Dave did Schmoughtever come to the city. I have come to your office. I've come to Dave's office. I've gone to Peter's office there. But what I do is I don't even go through the city and go all the way around. I drive all through the East Bay, up through Berkeley. Wow. I'm just kidding. No, no, no. I just think that the city is very poorly managed. And just the quality of many cities are poorly managed. And I think that there's a common through line in these poorly managed cities.

57:52All the things that you say, there's no will to do. There's no will to keep crime at bay. There's no will to make, you know, usable spaces for people. There's no will to invest in the arts. So what do you expect, right? There's more money collected by these cities, but there's just just more total grift corruption in waste. I really like that you got to this will point, because whether we come back to the Coastal Commission or not or talk about California or San Francisco, I don't think it's really about the red tape. I think it's about the willpower of the people who are running the tape and reading the tape.

58:29A hundred percent right. Did you see this thing? I have to read this to you because this is really stunning. I, sorry, Mark keep going, but you're so 1 ,000 percent right. You know, because sure, okay, maybe, maybe in one case, Gavin can override the Coastal Commission, but it doesn't matter if you cut their red tape by 90 percent, as long as there's any tape that they can use, the people running both the staff there and the people on the board have stated on their website that their policy is managed retreat. They drew a new map of the California coastline. If that's their intention, they're going to look for anything they can to stop and obstruct you.

59:12So it's really not like their hands are tied because there's so much permitting. You're right. They made a decision. And the decision in California in San Francisco specifically was that we're going to cater to fentanyl dealers and junkies. and that those people were going to get a stipend, a hotel room, and be allowed to take a super drug on the streets, thousands of people with no recourse. Listen, I'm pro drug. Okay, here's, I sent you guys a realization, but not fentanyl and meth. These things are super drugs. Let's make it less about San Francisco. Let's talk about middle Ohio, and let's talk about Enderill.

59:50So, Palmer lucky to this really awesome, really awesome interview, Nick, I just sent you the link to it. He's building a new Ohio plan. But the question and answer from the interviewer is exactly what Pinkus talked about, which is will. The interviewer says, was this the only state that could guarantee that timeline that you needed? Here's Palmer's answer. Was this the only state that could guarantee that timeline? I think that they were the state that gave us the best shot of hitting that timeline. Look, we've really engaged well with Jobs Ohio, with a lot of the politicians here, not just at the state level, but the local level.

1:00:31Like you said, we're hiring 4 ,000 people here in direct jobs. A lot more jobs than that in a direct, sorry, an indirect capacity. It's the largest single job creation event in Ohio history. It was a state that told us we have the workforce. We have a million people who are capable of working in the facility within a 45 -minute drive. We're willing to work with you on higher education to help train people so they can come in and they can work with you. Our customer in the form of the United States Air Force obviously is a huge presence here in the form of Wright Patterson Air Force Base. So really all the stars aligned to make Ohio a great place for us to do it and to do it fast.

1:01:06And speaking candidly as someone who is from California, there's some states that are really good at pushing you out and slowing you down. and there's others that are great at pulling you in and speeding you up and that's what Ohio was fantastic Yeah, states are competing for elite companies And there's a willpower that's yeah, there's an intention And you know that if they want to make it happen they'll make it happen. Just like Gavin just did right you Gavin could have theoretically, I don't know signed an executive order to override the coastal commission on on a lot, even his decal plant. Like, I don't know why he didn't just force that through, but if we had decal, maybe there'd be more water to fight the fire now.

1:01:50So I think the important thing is to note that cities have a right to be what they want to be. You guys might find this surprising, but I'm not necessarily of the belief that every city should necessarily cater to progress and acceleration and enterprising and industrialization. Look, when you go to Portofino every summer, Tamauf, you would probably stop going and would be disappointed if you found out that they were building a giant glass tower apartment complex at a giant office building right by the Portofino port. Like, that's just not the character of what that city wants to be. And I do remember when I first moved to San Francisco 25 years ago, it felt like a small or European -like city.

1:02:39It wasn't overrun with technology companies at the time, and it was the charm and the quaint nature and the smaller buildings of San Francisco that made it a beautiful, fantastic town. I think that part of the challenge of San Francisco has been this diametrically kind of opposed viewpoint of progress from the technology sector and a desire to keep San Francisco, a small city by the Bay, and that that frustration has manifested with a lot of kind of ugliness over the last couple decades. In addition to obviously all the silly stupid policies that just make no sense whatsoever, they're rooted in people thinking that this is a good solution in the short term, but it creates extraordinary damage and harm in the long term, separate.

1:03:19But I do think that cities have a right to be what they want to be. And I think that's just, I just want to interject as a fellow San Francisco for a long time, just as long. is that that's the normal tension that's been here all along and that kind of makes the city culture great and there's you want to have this creative melting pot here but there's this other side that I think has come in to play in the last 15 20 years or I don't 10 15 years which is this progressivism side which we saw Chesa you know with and I think it's it's a different That's the ugly silliness I meant. I was saying, but like, let's put that aside.

1:04:01Let's put San Francisco aside. I do think that a city can and should be what it wants to be. Does it want to attract and build industry? Does it want to attract and build enterprising companies? Or does it want to be a small coin town? Does it want to stay, you know, with no high rises? That's a false trade -off. The problem is that people in government, at every level, cells, the former doesn't actually even give them that nor the latter. What they give them is a dysfunctional hellscape instead. So, a quarter of a pho doesn't do that, right? Because it doesn't make those promises. It's not asking to elect people that are trying to do it.

1:04:38Yeah, not everybody's making that. Why are we lying to everybody and why are people falling for these lies over and over and over again? There's a moral clarity in telling the truth. Portofino doesn't try to do that, but I don't think the point is - You're saying the cities that promise that and don't deliver. San Francisco promises it, London promises it, New York promises it, these things are chaotic messes. And it's not the tradeoff of, oh, while Harris has found a way to stay quaint, that was never on the ballot. Some person comes up and says, I'm going to spend $X billion a year. Then another person shows up as is actually, I'm going to spend it a totally different way.

1:05:14They both claim to have measurements of how it's going to be great. And my point is, none of them are rooted in the real world. Nobody knows how to actually run a business. All the money gets wasted and nothing happens. It neither stays quaint nor does it advance. If you were living in Los Angeles, you had the opportunity to have Rick Coruso who built so many amazing experiences and shops for the citizens there and you picked Karen Bass. I looked on her Wikipedia page looking for any kind of operational position she ever felt. It's you want to read a resume it's tragic. I mean I just She I would literally like I said this week not send her to get my lunch because you know that order would be totally screwed up She is so dis so unqualified and you had this perfect person Rick Caruso who Literally you can't script this he built the Pacific Palisades village When the days before there was gonna be a fire do you know what he did?

1:06:18He hired water trucks to park on those streets. You can find the picture and pull it up. And he hired firefighters and people to protect the village that he built. Karen Bass was in Ghana, partying, taking meetings. I don't know what the connection between Los Angeles and their citizens and what they need to get done in Ghana. After she promised, she would not do this global, you know, a globe trotting which he apparently has a track record of doing. She left and stayed there knowing this was all coming. Rick Russo who you didn't vote for mayor. He did the right thing. Vote these people out. Recall Karen Best.

1:07:02You can do it. We've recalled Chesa Boudin. You remember on this show David Sacks is a Republican entrepreneur venture capitalist. Just a good friend of mine. I'll introduce you guys if you haven't met him. He started a recall Chesa Budin movement. I hired a journalist to cover the victims of crime in San Francisco. Chesa Budin was out in 18 months. You can recall these people. They're unqualified. Take action. Start a recall. They'll tell you, oh, it's not a good thing for continuity, whatever. These people are not qualified. They are not thinking in your best interests. You have no choice citizens of Los Angeles, but to get these people out immediately.

1:07:42Every day they stay in office, they are going to cause more damage to your family, your property, and your city. We call them now. Didn't Taylor's Woods post a petition on change .org that I saw on Twitter, it was already, I signed it, that I don't live there. And I think it was already over 90 ,000 names. I mean, you have power. The people of California don't understand how much power they have. When Gavin Newsom, I just told people on Twitter, Chimoff, every time Gavin tweets or Karen Best tweets, just reply with the word, resign. Hundreds of people are doing it now. Shame these people into resigning.

1:08:19It's a very mature way for you to affect you. You know what? It worked in Brooklyn. Shame worked. I don't know why people think they have no power. You could literally just go in there and do things. And one of the things you can do is recall them. Okay, do we have anything else except your polemicals left on the docket? All right, TikTok's future is in question right now. The ban is about to happen unless the pairing company, ByteDance, DIVES, by January 19th, which is this Sunday, TikTok will be banned in America. Google and Apple are going to be forced to remove TikTok from their app stores and Oracle TikTok's cloud provider has to stop providing hosting services and cut ties.

1:08:56Assuming ByteDance doesn't come up with a last minute deal. TikTok's only hope is the Supreme Court blocking the law, what do you think Mark, do you think it's Chinese spyware, do you think they should be forced to divest? What do you think their repercussions will be? Here's what's so hard for me about this. On the one hand, part of it seems so obvious from both not just national security point of view, but also just fairness. It's insane if you think about it that there's a Chinese company that's arguing in court for protections under our Constitution and freedom of speech when none of our companies have those kinds of rights in China, much less the right to even operate there if they're not majority controlled or in line like you guys talked about with censorship or whatever else.

1:09:49So on the one hand it seems like a no -brainer to me that on this case, but what you're starting to see come up in the last couple days. I'm even hearing it from one of my daughters who's a major tick tocker is the law of unintended consequences here is that we could see this band, especially if they don't get to a deal with somebody, and then the 170 million Americans, many younger Americans who rely on this all sudden feel like this is censoring them and it's taking way their freedom of expression and it could backfire in a lot of ways. We're already seeing memes where they're going on to these other apps.

1:10:32There's this Chinese red book, which is even worse. I think that one is owned by the Chinese government. So we're driving them there. So the best outcome I think would be forced to divest and sell to another American company. But if that doesn't happen, I'm kind of nervous about a real backlash. I'm delighted, Chimoff, that our kids are going to go out and play and have friendships and stop scrolling to talk to Sam. What you described sounds awesome. I literally get on their iPads and phones when I sometimes allow them to have phones and just delete the app and then they go get it back. Of course, of course.

1:11:16Kids around around it. What do you think, Chimoff? What do you think is going to happen here? I mentioned this to President Trump, and I really think this is true. The reason why there was so much bipartisan support for the bill as it worked through Congress is because I think that they were briefed on just how severe the security violations of this app are. Because I don't think we've seen anything in modern history that is this controversial yet be so almost unanimous. So I think that that's an important data point. there is something happening in the app that they've been briefed on that makes them take this posture.

1:11:56And when I listened to the Supreme Court arguments, I didn't hear a very compelling reason why this band should be overturned. So I do agree with Mark that we have to find a suitable home. And I think that we'll probably find one. And I think that probably happens under the Trump presidency. And whoever gets their hands on it gets their hands on an incredible asset that they will be able to buy it extremely cheaply. Because there is no way that there is a fair market value here deal for that asset. Because whoever is the buyer is in the total cat bird seat. And in order to get a deal done with the federal government, I think you're just going to get a basically like a buy it now price that's very cheap.

1:12:38The other thing that I'll say though on a totally separate tangent. So when I started hunting around, TikTok's real -time recommendation algorithm was open source, the learning method. Nick, do you want to just throw it up here? It's called monolith. This is an incredible paper. The cleverness of what these guys have built cannot be underestimated. And what's incredible is what they describe in this paper, which I think frankly a lot of social apps would benefit from understanding is exactly how they built it to essentially not take this more monolithic training approach for recommendations, but how do you do it in real time?

1:13:14How do you make it collisionless? It's incredible. This paper is a tour de force. It just makes me realize that despite the political maneuvering of this hot potato, there are some folks that have been working in that app or in the parent company that are truly technically talented. And it's a bit of a shame that they're going to get sort of throw the baby out with the bath water, so to speak. So people should know that there's some technological innovations inside of bike dens and TikTok that are just truly amazing feats of computer science. This is an example. It doesn't though change the fact that I think that enough of Congress and the rest of the security apparatus know that this is a mechanism to spy.

1:14:00I think you both nailed it. Isn't China saying though that they're going to, if this does get diverse, that they're going to keep me either bite dance or Chinese government saying we're not going to give over the algorithm or you saying it's open source it doesn't matter. Well, this was an example of just sort of like describing the methodology. It's not functionally open source yet, but I think that open sourcing it doesn't solve the problem. And the reason is, so let's just say that you're a Pegasus. Pegasus was able to reverse engineer or build penetration attacks into WhatsApp that were imperceptible to everybody until it happened to Jeff Bezos, to other people, right, where you get these state sponsored attacks on your phone, and all of a sudden you're dealing with this attack vector that then you call the FBI and they take your phone and they help you deal with.

1:14:48It's happened to a bunch of people. What's happened to me? Twice. So the fact that these things can happen and then the attack vectors get incrementally more and more sophisticated, it used to be that there was a PDF payload. then there can just be an image payload. Now it's any payload, right? And you don't even have to click to open it and all of a sudden they just root your phone. So these are extremely sophisticated mechanisms that are enabled by a very few, very talented people, talented, I'll put in quotes. But when those talented people work on the wrong side, you have to act. So open sourcing it won't solve this.

1:15:27These exploits are known to a few. And I think that if it's known to the NSA, this is probably what was disclosed to folks under confidentiality that caused them to get to this conclusion. I think people just need to wake up and realize that Chinese government does not have Americans best interest at heart. I mean, there is no concept of reciprocity as you mentioned, Mark. That's the number one reason to do this. Number two, what you pointed out to them off with security. And if you think about the two biggest imports from China right now, it's fentanyl and TikTok. But here's what I will say. Want to make us addicted.

1:16:02They want to impact our society. They want to divide us. This is a massive siops that's going on. It is a siops and it is a spyware. And it's been proven. They spy'd our journalists. These are bad actors. It has to go. I was super excited when I saw that there is a potential that X would take over TikTok. And the reason I say that is, I do think that if you can take the video content of TikTok and the graph of creators, but have a different app and a different substrate be the delivery mechanism where you know that it's much safer and it's governed by an American, that to me would be the compromise.

1:16:44So I think the app should go away, but if you can somehow give creators a path to sort of like restart their content creating capabilities on X, I think that that's actually a pretty good one. You guys noticed in the app freeberg that the left hand tab Because you have following shop and for you they had a left -end tab all the way over that stem And it's just science technology engineering and math content I've not noticed that yeah, take a look I don't know if it's just mine and they're micro targeting me because they know I'm such a fan of stem But I think it's for everybody any thoughts What's a day as we wrap on the TikTok seems like they're going to strike a deal.

1:17:25Chuck Schumer today is calling for a delay in the ban. I'm sure by the time this episode airs, something will have been worked out to create some space for them to get a deal done. But I think they want to get a deal done and keep TikTok active in the US. Seems like both the Dems and the Republicans are pushing for it. So this kind of also leads to what I think will be the grand deal with China, which I think will happen in the first six months of the Trump administration. I'm obviously speculating, but it feels like there's going to be some workout here. China's like, in a lot of economic distress.

1:17:57I don't know if you guys have followed much on the stories of the deflationary challenges that China's dealing with. Chinese bonds are trading at a below 2 % yield now, which is kind of unprecedented. And there's this real concern that China is in a very significant economic deflationary spiral. So they're in a very weakened position economically at the moment. The United States seems to be in a position of strength. And I would imagine just given the rhetoric that this administration may try to work out, again, some deal that's going to provide access to the Chinese market in exchange for the U .S.

1:18:33minimizing the tariff effect on Chinese importers to the U .S. So there could be, I think, something that eases the tension with China and creates mutual economic value in the first six months of the administration. We'll see. I mean, it's a great point. Trump is a great negotiator. It's probably his greatest strength and he's great at saber rattling and we're strong. There we right now. A grand deal could be an awesome outcome. I think this was my, this was my contrarian prediction, I think. Oh, no, this was my stock. This was my stock prediction. Yeah, this was like my, yeah, I picked the Chinese text docs.

1:19:07Yeah. Same. I've been loading up on Alibaba a couple Chinese names. Wait up. The same bat. Hey guys, here's a chart for you. Companies are not hiring as many MBAs. This is a recent spike in unemployment among MBAs from top business schools like Harvard MIT and Stanford. I'm not sure I think. Pinkist, did you go to Harvard for a year? Guilty. Guilty. So, and you've also stopped working. So you're represented here on the chart. Yeah, I'm still having a job, right? He's still working. What are your thoughts on this? Are MBAs out of vogue? Are they opting out? What's your theory here? Well, so yes, I went there.

1:19:52I would say that my, all the learning that's helped me in my career started later after I got out. My first product management job was really when I started learning things that are useful to me today. I think being there, I learned a lot about how to sell the corporate America and how do they think kind of things. And then I've gone back to HBS for decades trying to recruit from there. And in the beginning, they would tell me the kids would, when I had support .com and it was going to go public, they said, I'd have to be a vice president and own 3 % of the company to take a job with a startup like you.

1:20:34And this was just before the company went public. There was a little bit of a Renaissance period where some HBS people were excited to join Zinga, probably because they thought it was going public, but they were a little more risk on at that point. And now everyone's open to jobs. My take is that there's this fundamental imbalance that people go and get an MBA because they're de -risking their career. You go to HBS or Stanford and you're guaranteed this high salary and this kind of great job for life. So the reason to go there is to take the risk off. That's in fundamental opposition to where we are in our economy in my opinion today or where the most interesting sectors are.

1:21:20Those kinds of jobs have dried up and And the kinds of jobs that I think should be interesting to MBAs are more like Go find a Y -commonator company and join a founding team as the Business person or whatever and these people are smart and qualified But there's this mismatch that they are fundamentally risk averse and so they're not so when it says they haven't found jobs Part of it is I think they're gonna they're going to have to fall further or this might happen so that a part of it they have maybe debt or they have to pay back this expensive degree. But I think that they've got to get to a point like I was when I started my first company preloader, I happily had very little to no opportunity costs because I had torched my career by that point, torched my resume.

1:22:11I was fired or asked to leave every job. So there was kind of no turning back. So can you imagine being Mark because his boss? I mean that's almost as hard as being tramons. Yeah, I always say on a team player as long as I'm running the team. So right, great point back. Yeah, but yeah, so I had no opportunity cost when I started my first company, which looked like it didn't have a chance in how you know of ever making it. So you probably thought so too then about my company. But so now the question is maybe what's going to happen is we're going to get a new equilibrium where these the opportunities for these people start to come down, the guaranteed opportunities and consulting firms, right?

1:22:55They will go to McKinsey, Boston, Consulting Group. Whatever. I just the class I taught on Monday at Stanford, they said everyone wants a job at Metta or Google and that's the get rich quick place. And it's I don't even think that's necessarily true anymore and they can't get those jobs because those companies are now trying to Get a little management. So those jobs have dried up You know part of what's in this data probably also is a lot of these people aren't taking Jobs they're not finding jobs that meet this high expectation for right hey and opportunity so I think it's a I think it's a good thing It also probably is going to reduce the demand to go into these MBA programs because if you're thinking Well, that's not going to be my risk off trade and I'm not going to be guaranteed 100 % So why go in the first place and I would advise people today, you know to Depending on what industry on bias, but it's a go get a product management job somewhere and Make enough that you can afford to live on it and that's going to be the beginning of To these chamaf What are these things called when these MBAs graduate?

1:24:04They raise a bunch of money to go buy some real business. Search fun. Yeah, that's not happening anymore. Yeah. That was like the name of a made money. None of them made money. So it turns out these MBAs don't know what they're doing. Oh, yeah. So when they take over the business run by a family and some matriarch or patriarch for 50 years to get it to 25. I don't know. There's that one deal out of Stanford GSB, the guy founded Asherian, which is like, you know, 10 bits. It's a billion. That guy would have founded that company outside of Stanford. He could have gone to Timbuktu .com University, disgraced the odd state and he would have been fucked up.

1:24:41That speaks to more about the cleverness of that one individual, not the 99 ,000 other s*** deals that have been done. Let me say something that builds on what Pinkus was saying, which is, I think that this is a interesting window into the future of AI in the sense that I think what companies are internalizing slowly, that the first place that AI disintermediates is actually middle management. You thought that it was the customer support person, maybe you thought it was the engineer, maybe you thought it was the designer, maybe you thought it was the product manager. I think those are less true.

1:25:18I think it's the middle manager, it's the a functionary that basically is acting as essentially cartilage inside of this organization has less and less to do in a place where AI -enabled systems are making a lot of decisions on behalf of businesses. And if you take a step back, how did that evolve? Well, it started because of what I mentioned a couple weeks ago. What the software industrial complex will really be known for after it is dismantled and gone is that it created all of these really dysfunctional org charts in a company. Meaning, when you are a system of record that sells something, let's make it up, hey, I'm the best general ledger software.

1:26:09Okay, and a CEO says great, implement that. And then all of a sudden it's like, well, you're going to need a CFO. Okay, but then the CFO comes to you and says, well, you actually need a head of FPNA, a head of this, a head of that, a head of the other thing. Then the CEO says, okay, then those people hire. And what happens is the software sprawl is really what created those jobs. Somebody else says, here's a customer relationship management thing. Okay, great. So then out the UIR, CMO and a CRO, those people build infrastructure. So my premise about this is, is if you look inside of any org chart of any company, you can map those jobs to some clunky old piece of software that was sold to them.

1:26:52Maybe it was 10 years ago, maybe it was 20 years ago, but that's why orgs are this bulky. And now when you have all of these new next -gen businesses that are ripping all of that software out, the middle management layers that used to manage that software are no longer necessary. That's why you're not hiring MBAs. And I think that this trend is only going to grow. So I don't think that this is a commentary on the people. The people are probably quite smart. But I do think that this is a warning sign that people should not go and pursue these degrees, because I think, as Pinka said, you're not taking the trade of least volatility.

1:27:28You're actually taking on a lot more volatility than you probably thought you shouldn't be taking on by going to a place like Harvard or Stanford. Freiber, any thoughts as we wrap here about? I think the S &B I sure. The collapse of the MBA program could be the beginning of the unwinding of the higher education market. Hmm. Why similar? I think this is the easiest one to discard first in an age of AI and automation and self -learning. And I think that I mean, I've been thinking a lot about I've I've young kids, right? So my kid, my oldest kid is a seven years old. I didn't think about that for a second.

1:28:10So many kids now. And isn't it great by the way? I go through this all day. I don't know. I have to go, I have to like, what's my kid's birthday? It's hard. It's a busload of children. I just had a fifth. So I think I got a great five and you're at four days. I have five. I can't, I have to really think about all the birthdays. Fourth on the way. But yeah, I would say I think a lot about whether or not it makes sense for my kids to go to undergrad. And I think about going to classes as an undergrad, I certainly there's the social experience and I learned a lot in kind of working at a lab when I was there and doing other stuff.

1:28:48But those were like on the job experiences. I do think that the social experience and the practical experience can be gotten outside of the college infrastructure, this educational infrastructure. Oh, I cannot tell you guys how much time I just had a great idea. I just had the best idea ever. The all -in MBA. Let's start our own MBA. I think that's the whole point. Is people should get back to kind of an apprenticeship type model or a self -learning model. Everyone's got their own personal tutor now. That's what I think people aren't realizing is anything you want to learn in. With AI. And you guys heard about what Johnny Ive is done with his kids.

1:29:28I'm pretty sure they skip college and they just went to work directly with him and his design firm. And I'm like, I'm taking him out to lunch because I want to interview him about it. I think that's such an interesting part of the way. Because I like daughters and my daughters want to start a podcast together, Pinkie. You know what they want to name it? Oh, no, I don't. I don't know if I should say it. I don't know. I didn't hear the name. I think your mom's daughter is in on this as well. I think it was another friend's child who came up with the name. They wanted to call it the nepotod. to mom's got a couple of kids at the bottom.

1:30:06I'm here for it. No, I think Freeberg nailed it on this one because I just had a Rooch Selvin who is the PM at Google doing deep research on this week and startups yesterday. And this product is nuts. And they designed it to basically be one of these like million dollar or five million dollar reports you pay for from these consulting firms, that MBA is right. and it does a better job. It's more accurate. It's done in five to 10 minutes. This thing fires off. Have you used deep research at Mark? No, I keep hearing you talking about it, and I'm such an idiot about this stuff. It's absolutely awesome.

1:30:46You can't use the mobile and then Brock 2 .0 is out. I know how to use it and put it on a tablet. It's only a good time and you have to pay 20 bucks for it. And then Brock 2 .0 is doing something similar. When you put your query in, it decides like all the second level queries that would be asked, then it checks its work. So it's firing off a spider that goes and crawls 150 pages in real time. Then it asks questions about the data, then it says, what's missing from this? So all the questions you would get from your manager, if you were working at Boston Consultant Group with a tell some young MBA, hey, you missed this, you missed this, can you double check this, can you find double click on this?

1:31:22It goes and does those follow up questions. So, and now you can do a cron job, where you could say, take my research and every week do a update on it and fill in information and tell me the differences. So instead of just buying a Boston consulting or McKinsey or whatever report, you build it and then have it audit and the deep research is coming out of this. So you're going to automatically refresh it in your Google Docs and then update you on what's been changed. And so and Grock is doing it as well except Grock has all the tweets. So when you You use GROC now? Did you see now at the top of the page it says, and I think it's only in the GROC app, the dedicated app they just launched last week.

1:32:01It shows you all the tweets, and it shows you all the web pages that it indexed for that query. So this is like putting somebody on a week long research project. And like I said, it takes between five and 10 minutes to do this, and it costs a massive amount of server capacity to do these real time, two, 300 queries are occurring behind your one. It's nuts. I don't know if you guys have been using advanced voice on chat GPT much. Or do you guys need the voice? And so lately, anytime I kind of have come across an interesting topic, I end up finding that I just talk to chat GPT for like an hour or two.

1:32:39And I'll be like in my car like what I'm driving to work or going to a meeting or I go for like a walk down to the coffee shop. I'm like okay so tell me about like what happened during the ice age with respect to how quickly sea levels receded. And I start to gather and like it's basically like your own personal tutor. I finally have a best friend, Mark. And I think that basically you end up seeing a future where if people are put into almost like the real world becomes the lab environment that is created in a very short window and small amount of space in a college environment where you're like in some like applied scape, that applied scape basically becomes the real world and you've got your college in your ear.

1:33:26You've basically got your tutors, your educational experience, your capabilities that you're learning, and you learn more in real time. And I think that that's what AI is going to take us to, which is basically going to destroy much of the value of higher education. And I think that this MBA piece is probably just the first step of many that's that's going to ultimately erode the value of ours. Did you guys see that flashlight that can actually be synced to a video you're watching? I'd see you. No. That's pretty crazy. Oh. How can we go to the UFOs instead of sanctuize? We get it. Show us the video.

1:34:02It's also a video. Did you get one? Of course. It's about to show us from his hidden folder. I saw it on X. It was like a summary of like the top 10 things from CES. And it was a fleshlight that would gyrate based on the actual contortions in the video. Which was using AI's guest rooms tonight. It's interesting, Pinkus. You get to see two different things here. When AI comes up as a topic, Freeberg finally has a best friend and Jamath finally has a lover who will do exactly what he tells it to. Yes, it's absolutely perfect. So Mark, lately we've been talking to all the guests about UFOs and UAVs.

1:34:42Welcome to Conspiracy Quandered. You have a point of view on UFO UAP, phenomena? I do. And I guess everyone else has to. So I won't be that weird and outlier. So first of all, I'll just say, I don't believe in UAP's UFOs, and I don't not believe in them. And I'm just curious about it. And I've had this theory that something is going to happen that we're going to break our current understanding of physics theory and our physics laws. And so I've been looking for that moment and one of those is around the UAPs. So I've been more and more curious and digging more and more. And I started working with a friend who made the movie Icarus on the idea of like a Netflix docuseries.

1:35:30I thought it should be funny and have somebody like a Larry David kind of character narrating it. But he said maybe, maybe he came back to me. He's making a documentary about the fentanyl crisis and how it China Documented how China has dumped it here and he said you've got to meet with me in this guy I came while he was working on that he was interviewing a former DOD contractor who had worked for them for decades and said You know, I've got a lot of them fentanyl, but I have this whole other thing to show you About these UAPs and he he'll just tell you his claim his claim So they came in that with me and we had to be outside and put our phones in Fairway bag.

1:36:12Actually, are they bags? So it was a good setup. It's nothing else and he said he claimed that in doing running these war games for the defense department It inadvertently was summoning these UAPs these drones and he had tons and tons of video of it and classified them I'm just telling you what he told me. Let me guess. All the drone videos look like a shot. I don't understand. I don't understand. The whole lot. No, hold on. Wait, hold on, Jason. Mark, just explain this. So the United States is simulating war games. Yeah. And what is it doing exactly that's causing these drones to show up? He did not tell me what were the games.

1:36:59What were the exact triggers that, but he said different things would trigger a different One, and he classified them, and he said some of them were aggressive from an electronics and community, would take out electronics and communications. And he, so he was interested, and my friend was interested in saying, okay, can you put up a couple people, a million and a half dollars to recreate this and film this. And I thought about it, I even had him go meet with Reed. And it didn't move quickly. And then he went dark on us and stopped responding. And then some friends of mine went to a gathering at...

1:37:47And what they, it was on multiple things related to this. And they said that this guy was there and that he summoned one of these. they kind of said it looked like a large drone. And my friends showed me some pictures that they took, which were really, it was at night, they were really great. Come on, stop. Come on, stop. I'm not making this up. I'm just telling you just one piece of advice with this documentary film stuff. You know how to make a hundred million dollars in documentary films, right, Piggas? Yes, start with a billion. Start with a million. You're the mark in all of this. You're just a mark.

1:38:20This guy needs a million dollars to finish his house or something, or something to bang a can. I didn't find it. I didn't find it. I didn't find it. Okay, good. All I'm saying is that I think that there's a possibility that there is some kind of blue on that's getting that is showing up. And I'm not saying it's even from, you know, from non -human making. I believe it. I believe it. I am looking, I'll be honest because I am looking for a reason to believe in this. I'll be honest. like I know my bias, I am very sympathetic when I hear these stories. I listen way too long, you know, to the podcast on this stuff.

1:39:02Are you donating to Alex Jones? No, but I - Are you a subscriber? No, but I - Okay, how about this? Are we convinced that there has been an absolutely zero unidentified object inside some vault buried deep somewhere in either the US or national state government. Are we guaranteed that the odds of that are zero? And I say no, it's not. Let's do our fir, what is it? Fermi paradox. Friber, Fermi paradox. Why aren't they, if there, if there are aliens, why haven't we seen them? I'm not saying that I'm just saying. I've already done my point on this. There is a UAP that has been unidentified, that is sitting inside some vault somewhere in a state government in the world.

1:39:51So your position is the aliens have come? No, stop saying it. It's being hard. No, but you make the whole thing seem ridiculous when you say aliens. I'm not saying that. I'm saying. Okay. Visitors from another planet. No, stop with the visitors. Just let's just put it this way. A vehicle. That doesn't have anything inside it. A vehicle could be autonomous and unmanned. Are the odds exactly zero? No. But with billions of planets, it would, you know, logic would make you think that one has come already, right? That's with this billions of inhabitable planets and species out there. There must have somebody must be ahead of us.

1:40:33But the other conclusion of Fermi's paradox is we, statistically, are the highest a society has ever gotten, and we have yet to send our probes out to the rest of the universe. Although we have sent probes freeberg to Uranus. All right, everybody. Thanks for tuning in. This is all in black dance. Desperate, yes. Desperate, yes. Desperate, yes. Desperate, yes. Wait, it's not that dumb. I need, I need a, I need a, need some young Spielberg to make us a jingle for this Graziat at .com. Mark Pankas, you're amazing. Thank you for fitting right in with your besties. All of the top row on the baby. Looking forward to seeing you this weekend.

1:41:16All right. We will see. Oh, and by the way, just programming note, we're all going to be at the inauguration of various parties this weekend. And we will be doing some live episodes of the All in podcast probably on Sunday Monday, time frame. And we will see you on the live stream. Go to youtube .com, subscribe to the All in podcast, put on the notifications, the bell, and then follow us on x .com, the All in podcast. And then again, subscribe and then just turn on notifications. You'll get a notification when we go live on those two platforms. We'll see you next time bye bye love you boys bye bye

1:42:21Oh, man, my hamlety ass will meet me at what I'm doing. We should all just get a room and just have one big hug or two because they're all just just like this like sexual tension that we just need to release some of them. What, you're the big, what, you're the purest. Big, what? We need to get merges out of that. I'm doing all of it.

1:42:46I'm doing all of it.