Army Captures Live Alien [You Won't Believe What Happens Next]

26:30Remember I said, hey, everyone, look over there. Then he turned, I saw his eyes, and I immediately ran away. So when he turned, we could only see his eyes and what looked like a slit, but we couldn't really tell if he had a normal mouth like ours or something else entirely. When they locked eyes with this being, what were they thinking? Well, it wasn't a human that we saw, honestly. It wasn't an animal either. and so these days I truly believe it's a being from another planet.

27:07Back then, you know, we were always in pause. We were children of Catholic parents, right? In pause. And that it could be a demon. So that's why we ended up being afraid back then, you know? So the three girls run to her house and they say we saw this creature we might have been the devil or whatever it was and they do they do they get in the car and drive here do they walk here how did they get here and what did they see when they got here she said let's go there in the pickup truck and i told her i'm not going i'm too scared i won't come back then louisa asked please won't you come with me so i finally got into the pickup truck and we came back we ended up stopping right here look in that very spot I saw the creature's track, its foot.

27:50I will never forget it, I swear to God. Oh, I'm still trembling. Do you want to see one toe, then another long toe, and then another toe like this? Look. Smaller. Yes.

28:07Roughly three hours after the girls witnessed the strange creature, military police officers Eric Lopes and Marco Ceresi drive down this road on the lookout for something unusual when suddenly it runs right across their path. These military personnel exited the vehicle. These soldiers, but most notably Marco Xerez, wrestled with this creature to bring it under control.

28:38It was captured by Marco Xerez with his bare hands easily and taking him to the hospital. So what happens is Marco Charisi, who's this soldier, apprehends this alien being, grabs him, brings him into the vehicle, right? Yep. No hesitation. Puts it on his lap. That's so wild. And then he ends up with this gnarly bacterial infection, and I don't want to get too into the details because Chris Ramsey's going to do an amazing follow-up with you, which double-clicks on this autopsy. but you have the autopsy of this soldier who's died because he basically grabbed an alien being. And it shows bacteria.

29:24Yeah, you had the guy, the founder of the company IPD, and you could get the, it's an acronym, but the founder of the company, Dr. Giannini, and the guy that did the autopsy on the deceased military officer, Dr. Armando, participated on camera for this cut of the movie. Yeah, it's amazing. You have the guy who provided the report and all the infrastructure for the report. The one who founded the company. And the guy who founded the company and the autopsy guy. Both saying, and they're using words like ET. And then they're the ones speculating that the claw from the ET must have punctured the skin.

30:01And it's like this. He said the bacteria most likely came from under the nail of the ET, which didn't mean to like, It wasn't like an evil E.T. that tried to kill this guy. He just like accidentally in the process of grabbing it, he got a little scratch right under his armpit. Based on the circumstantial evidence that has come to my attention, it was a very distinct and deliberate scratch on Zarez's skin, clearly inflicted by E.T. I truly believe he was a victim of E.T.'s nail, you know, his sharp claw. why was it so resistant what biochemical gain did it possess to completely escape the antibiotic it just sailed through destroying everything in just one week that's very very atypical yeah i won't go into detail about it but basically never before never since Yeah.

31:03They've never seen anything like this bacteria. This was an advanced bacteria that did things that nothing on earth, no bacteria on earth does. You see them in the movie saying that. Incredible. And it's not anonymous. They're not doing this anonymously. Neither is the neurosurgeon. Yeah. Neither is the neurosurgeon. And he's still working at the hospital today. When we first started selling merchandise at AmericanAlchemyMerch.com, we had no idea how complicated and annoying selling merch could be. We talked to a dozen different platforms and companies comparing shipping tools, payment options, website builders, and it all felt like way more of a headache and complicated than it should be.

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33:08That's just one example, but Shopify really makes your life easier. Bring your next idea to life with Shopify quietly handling everything behind it. Sign up for your$1 per month trial and start today at Shopify.com slash Jesse. Again, that's Shopify.com slash Jesse, J-E-S-S-E, for a$1 a month trial. It's just$1 a month to try Shopify, the state-of-the-art solution in e-commerce. And they tried to suppress this report in Marco Charisi's sister. Oh, yeah, tried to get, yes. Basically had to sue them and wrest the report out of them. The wife couldn't get the autopsy report from her husband. That's crazy.

33:49And she was, like, pregnant at the time. It's horrible. You know? Yeah. God, that was one thing that Dr. Roger Lear, thank you, Dr. Roger Lear, for tracking down the wife in 2002. After a protracted legal battle, the family finally received the death certificate. It was produced by IPD Laboratory, the Institute of Prevention and Diagnostics in Virginia. In this exam, he has a presence of toxic granules in 8 % neutrophils, where a substance was acquired not identified. Therefore, he died of a generalized infection, but without a fair cause. All the witnesses that claim that Marco Cherisi handled a creature, a strange creature, It doesn't have to be from another world.

34:43It was a strange creature. He gets some unknown infection. You did everything you could to save him and he died. Do you believe that there's some credibility to that story? Yes, I believe that the story is credibility. He exposed this as a disaster... ...to try to help himself, to save his life.

35:31to find Marta, the sister of the deceased military officer, Marco Cerisi, that she'd gone off. I mean, yeah, she'd spoken publicly at the time of the incident, year two, three, whatever. And then just kind of people pulled back. There was just nothing to gain and everything to lose. Like just going up against, you know, Goliath and people just want their lives back, you know. And and I went downtown and I was I was talking. I would look in the downtown plaza, downtown Virginia, and I would look for old people because I was like, all right, these pop, you know, and I'd walk up and I was just asking.

36:06And I remember my sound guy was from Rio. And he was like, he looked at me and he was like, dude, are you insane? Like, what are you doing? I was like, you know, if I have a zero, zero, zero, 1 % chance, I'm going for it every time. Right. And so I was just going up and then I found this one old guy and he was like, oh yeah, I think I know she moved to this location of that. And we're driving around a random goose chase. We're going to knocking on doors in random places. Three or four hours later, we knock on this one door, door opens. there's marco series his sister marza it was like and i remember my sound guy looks over me he goes you're the luckiest son of a bitch i think i've ever met i said not well not necessarily oh look i was knocking on doors to find her and um uh her husband was very protective and he was wearing this white wife beater and he was just ripped and he was like standing in the background like you give me the nod and i'm gonna rip this guy's head off like to me right and and she doesn't know who the hell I am, right?

37:02Everyone's paranoid. Like, I'm some American. And I said, I'm here to give your brother justice, to give your brother a voice. And that broke the tension immediately. Yes. And it was like, okay, let's talk. And then that's how I got in with Marta Tavares. When her brother falls ill, she asks about his involvement with the case. And this is the story, The creature from outer space. Look, this story will be a big deal. So one of the beings gets captured with a net. Yeah. The other being... So the only two really solid ones that we have, but we have information on others up to five. But again, I only reported on two because that was the most concrete eyewitness testimony that we could get our hands on.

38:00And that was one capture in the morning by the fire department with a net. Apparently that one died, but that's the one that was crying. And then the other one, which was Marco Chiris and Eric Lopes. And it's interesting actually, because when you watch the movie and a lot of people miss this, when we doorstepped Eric Lopes and a lot of people, a lot of people criticize us for that. Like, how could you just doorstep this guy? You just show up at his house. It's like, well, we exhausted every other possible avenue for decades. Yeah. All the researchers had. Like, he wasn't talking, period. And he was the military transport guy.

38:35He was the one driving the car. Driving the car. When his fellow intelligence officer, police officer, Marco Scheriz, jumped out and grabbed it. Because the being was in the way of the car. The being went right across the road, right in front of him. Yeah, and it was just a couple blocks away from where the girls had seen this creature just two hours earlier. And Eric Lopes basically said, I will deter you with bullets or something. Like, he threatened you. He said he'd shoot you. But before he said that, he's like, if you're here to talk about the ET, he won't talk. He referred to himself in the third person.

39:10It's kind of like the police showing up at your door at a party. And you answer the door, you see the police, and you go, there's no drugs in this house. It's like the police are always like, I didn't ask you about any drugs. But now that you mention it, it's interesting. You know, he said, if you're here to talk about the ET, something like, if you're here to talk about the ET, he won't talk. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We didn't even say anything yet. We just said hello. Well, that plus threatening to shoot you, I think is, you know, not a normal reaction. He's like, he brought the ET up. We didn't bring the ET up.

39:42He did. Yeah, yeah. So it's like, read between the lines there. Tacit admission of something. Yeah. And, and, and when I, when I was standing there trying to make sense of what was going on, cause it was like, everything was happening really quickly and they were talking, you know, and like I speak French and I speak a little Spanish and I could really like, when I'm in the field, I really want to understand what's being said. Even when I was in China, I was like learning Chinese. I just, I have to be able to communicate. So I, I can, I have this level of focus where I really try, but these things were happening really quickly.

40:15He was making threats, I guess, about shooting me and shooting everybody else, even though there was a 10-year-old kid there. And I'm looking in the eyes of this guy, and he's up, he's like up in a window on the second floor looking down at us, and he's got something in one hand, and I don't know, what, if he had a gun or whatever he had, but he's military intelligence. He's P2, like he probably doesn't have any problem, you know, I'm sure he's armed to the teeth. But I'm looking in his eyes, and I hear all this commotion going around me, but I had a moment where time almost stopped, and I looked into this guy's eyes and I just saw eyes of someone that I've never, I never seen before because like they look so grief stricken.

40:55They looked so sad. Like I was just like, I, it's like time stopped and I'm looking in this guy's eyes and I've never seen eyes like that before. Like if you can imagine harboring or witnessing a murder or something really intense and then having to be quiet about it because maybe your family's threatened or your life's threatened or who knows what? Like, and you had to harbor that for the better part of 30 years? Like, the toll that would take on you? Well, you see it even, you hear it with what he says to you in the movie. And you sense that he's been threatened, his family's been threatened, and that he probably feels like kind of half a man or something.

41:34Like he's been, you know, he's been submitted through force. If you could, he's like, he doesn't want to. He doesn't want to? He doesn't want to. Is he okay with you? What's going on? So Eric won't talk. What just happened? I'm trying to... What happened? Is that Eric Lopez? Who is that? Yeah, Eric Lopez. That's Eric Lopez. Yeah. He doesn't want to talk at all. Turn me now, turn me now. Yeah, yeah. Okay, okay. Oh, my God, that was Eric Lopez. I just saw him. Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay, okay. We'll go talk. Did you get him? Dave, did you get him? Please tell me you got him. Fuck, dude. That was Eric Lopez.

42:20Fucking got him. You get him in the window? Yeah. Fuck. If that guy had nothing to hide, he would have just said so. That guy was driving the car that Marco Triesi was in. We received an unexpected request for a meeting from the chief neurosurgeon at Hospital Regional, the same hospital where military police officers Marco Chiriz and Eric Lopes allegedly had taken the live alien they'd captured on the road. Dr. Italo Venturelli, the head neurosurgeon at Hospital Regional, was on duty in the ICU when he had the most extraordinary encounter of his life. In this room or which room? This room. right here the alien was alive in this bed right there so he saw the creature right there

43:24his eyes they were like a teardrops red much redder especially right here you know and he was well partially covered he was right here you know but he was he was still alive he looked at in the eyes of the creature yes in this bed in this and what what did the creature say to you what i saw the red eyes his face was white his eyes were red and he wasn't showing any suffering at all now if there was perhaps a possible telepathic communication yes yes right there you see as if to say you know something like i'm perfectly fine i've been well looked after he said yes for sure a communication as someone would say yes i am okay i've received care That's what he felt from the expression of the being.

44:14To speak without speaking. According to Dr. Italo, a being underwent a procedure by his colleague, fellow neurosurgeon Dr. Marcos Venicio Neves, who died in 2018 of a heart attack. The other primary witness was his partner, a fellow neurosurgeon who was slightly below him, marcos venesis and marcos venesis uh there's a lot to that story as well um he had a heart attack in 2018 he didn't survive and he passed and he did surgery he did a little he did a procedure on the bean yes yes yeah i know it's so and and so he he died in 2018 i believe yes and ventarelli um he said he was face to face with this being and what did he what did he describe as first that interaction he said that this is incredible it's hard to kind of wrap my mind around it you know it's like i've had very i've only had a couple of um cases where i'm almost kind of pinching myself during filming one of them was with the former governor of arizona fife simonton when he confessed after 10 years that he had not only um believed about the phoenix Lights case, but that he too was a witness to the event.

45:38And then he looked into it and he, as a pilot in the Air Force, he said that thing could not have been from here. And I said, how did you know that governor? And he goes, because of its size and its flight characteristics, it couldn't have been from here. It had to be otherworldly. That's how he put it. And that was a moment in my career where I honestly, and I'm not just making this up. I remember sitting in my chair and I'm going to the governor of Arizona just say that he too saw it and that he looked into it and he felt it was otherworldly. And I'm like, I think I must be dreaming. And so I'm like pinching my, I literally grabbed my leg and I pinched it.

46:16And, and I was like, no, I feel that I'm not, I'm not dreaming. Then I said, I bet the cameras aren't rolling. So I looked over at the camera to see if the, you know, and then when we were with Dr. Italo, the neurosurgeon in regional hospital that he just snuck us in the back gate, like, you know, with all cameras rolling and the audio guys and everything. And then he starts talking about, like, this is the bed, this is the ICU. I was like, holy shit. This guy's just going full Komodo. Like, he's just saying the hell with it, whatever the consequences. This is what happened. I was here. I sat with it in this bed, right here in this room, for three to four minutes.

47:05After several minutes of interaction with the being, in this exact ICU at Hospital Regional, Dr. Italo told us the military burst in and took the being, then threatened the hospital staff to remain silent. Ask him how it feels to be sharing this information after 29 years. And how do you feel about dividing this information? I'm not going to cry. It feels like crying.

47:36Excuse me. It's a baby. It's different from us. There's no evil. There's no evil. So this is, you have a neurosurgeon who's, you know, again, extremely credentialed. everything to lose, nothing to gain. He had some health scares and giving you this testimony, and he freaks out because he's going to lose his job. He ends up giving you the testimony in the cafe. His good friend had done surgery on the being? A procedure. Marcos Vinicius. Marcos Vinicius. Did he say anything about that surgery? Because what is surgery like on an alien being? So apparently it was, and I'm not qualified to do, you know, I'm not a neurosurgeon, But from what I understand is that there was swelling from head trauma and that he had released the pressure by putting, I guess they do a little hole or something like that where it releases the pressure.

48:35It was something like that. It was a procedure to release the, from the head trauma. I would imagine it was maybe something to do with the accident. I don't know. But no, but that sort of satisfies, like if I were to throw any sort of skepticism at this, it would be, you know, how are you dealing with alien organs? Like, you don't really know what to do. You know, but if it's just like a head pressure, you know, release or something, that makes some sense to me. Could have been head trauma. How did he protect himself from the bacteria if he's doing, was he just like. Who's in the ICU? Everyone in the ICU has full protective gear on.

49:13Yep. Yep. Because we, even just to walk in with no patient, we had to put all the gear on. You can't go into the ICU without it. You got face mask, glove, everything, apron. And it was probably with Marcos Charisi, there was probably some interaction with his blood because there was maybe a punctured wound or something. You know, I wish like hell Marcos Venesis hadn't died for so many reasons. I mean, interviewing a guy who's done surgery on an alien being. I know. It's really frustrating. However, we have not given up. Like I said, by the time your audience watches this, I've already been back.

49:50And then we have a huge meeting with all the doctors, as many as we can get. Have you talked to his family at all? Oh, yeah. Marcus Venesis? Oh, Marcos Vinicius' daughter, Marcos Vinicius, he had a mistress and he had a kid with the mistress. We talked with the wife. Did they all say that? No, they were very guarded. Okay. But not like, no, it didn't happen. Like, okay, well, you know, like, you come in as outsiders to a place. It takes a while. Like, it took, when the film came out, that was actually one of the reasons why the police officer, he's like, you're doing a serious investigation. One of the reasons why I'm talking to you is you're investigating something that I participated in.

50:39Like, you clearly are taking this seriously. I'm providing a platform. we are providing a platform for people to come forward and not be ridiculed not be laughed at taken seriously and like you know kind of like first time in decades right so they're seeing this is a real effort to really get the truth out and it's power in numbers you know and um um and again i i think this is the beginning of the beginning on this case i i believe that i I mean, this is an extremely compelling, like, new account, new cut of the case. But I think it's going to get better. Yeah. Well, I think if you believe that, that's going to determine the outcome.

51:20Because you're the prime mover of a lot of this stuff. And I know you've given credit, as it's due, to many of these local Brazilian UFO researchers. But I think as far as mass exposure, you are helping them, you know, really get this thing out. And you keep going back. And so I really admire that. If this were a court case, you would have an overwhelming amount of evidence that something happened. Whatever the thing is that you're trying to prove in court, this would be far beyond the threshold of evidence that you would need. I think we could sway any jury. I think you could sway any jury. And so the Ventarelli thing is just fascinating.

51:58You end up in a cafe with him. Yeah. He gets very emotional. He starts crying because clearly he's held this in for. 29 years. 29 years. Could you imagine the weight of that on your shoulders? No, I can't. And you're watching all this speculation, you're watching all this conjecture, all this media coverage, the debunking going on from the military, like, excuse me, the witnesses, you know, adamantly saying, you know, this is what I saw, particularly the three girls, you know, and then knowing that you sat in the hospital room, in the ICU with a live captured alien and had direct telepathic communication.

52:34Face-to-face. Face-to-face, man. It's eye to eye. It doesn't get any more incredible than that. Like, as someone who's been around the world, interviewed people, like, you know, we have Close Encounters of the Third Kind, you know, where people claim, you know, entities connected to a craft. That's in the wild. I mean, it happened in Rua. It happened in Socorro. You know, lots of cases in China, you know, all around the world. But that's like people seeing a landed craft and seeing entities connected allegedly to the craft, and that's close kind of thrift kind, but to actually have an alien, alleged alien, in captivity and having direct contact, direct communication.

53:15He said, you look into the eyes of this creature and despite the fact that it was in captivity, it had control of the whole room. Usually the person experiencing the thing is kind of discreditable. Often they live in, you know, somewhere in the woods or something. The interaction occurs in some remote place and it's just this kind of inherently ephemeral thing where you have to take their word for it. I would actually say those people are sort of more trustworthy in some ways than like, you know, often people who are kind of insidery types or whatever. But in this case, you have a person whose credentials are unimpeachable.

53:49He runs a chain of hospitals. He, you know, people are, their lives are on the line. Works on people's brains. Works on people's brains. He's a neurosurgeon. He's a concert pianist. And, you know, clearly all of the incentives go in the direction of him not revealing any of this stuff. And because he's had a couple of life-threatening illnesses and scares, he comes out and speaks to you. What does he say about his interaction with the being? the being was very calm and it was it was uh it had sort of acquiesced to being in captivity and was very calm and that it was it was okay that it wasn't suffering it wasn't in pain um and he said when he looked into the eyes of it it read his mind like it could just read all of his thoughts he's like it was an advanced intelligence and i kept saying like what do you mean by that he goes there's nothing here on earth like it he called it like an angel and it was it was um compassionate caring like it an advanced intelligence and i said explain that he goes way more advanced than anything on earth way more advanced than than myself just way beyond and that you and he said one of the last things he said was there's so much to learn from the eyes of that being we have so much to learn in the eyes of this being just looking into the eyes and it's just amazing to think you know think about that and you know you hear other cases in the wild where people talk about you're looking in the eyes of the creature, Ruiz Zimbabwe, you know, Secor, New Mexico.

55:43I remember the wife of Lonnie Zamora looking at me and she goes, I don't know what happened when he looked at that creature, but he was never the same. Like the community, there's some communication that occurs with the eyes. And that's exactly what he said. He said there's so much to learn from them and they're advanced, like more advanced somehow than, than human consciousness, which is, and then what did he say about the physical characteristics um big big head almond shaped eyes they were red now interestingly the skin was more white than brown and i don't know this is just speculation but when the girls came in contact with this being that was most likely the same being that he had in the hospital because the chain like the girls saw it they got within 10 feet of it it was really hot.

56:29It was a really hot day in the summertime, January summer over in Brazil. And it was suffering. It was like kind of exuding some kind of weird smell, like almost like a skunk would, you know, when it's fearful or feeling threatened or vulnerable. But his eyes were red. His skin was oily. I couldn't see him with an open mouth laughing. No, not happy, but sad, hunched over, pale and sad. And he had no hair. And I saw that he was frightened. Just as I was frightened, the creature was also frightened. The fear that we ourselves possess, just as we became afraid of this. This being whose nature we do not know.

57:11And it was suffering, and the girls said it was suffering. In fact, when all three girls came into contact with that creature, two of them, the two sisters grabbed each other by the hand and hightailed it out of there. And they realized they had left Katya behind. Katya was the oldest. She was probably 21. And, um, and Valkyria and Liliani, the two sisters stopped and realized, shoot, we got to go back and get Katya. And Katya was locked eyes with this creature. And, uh, it was pleading to her. Cause I asked Katya, what was it saying? It was like, I need help. And it was suffering. I need help.

57:47It wanted help. And I just thought, my gosh, can you imagine how different it would have been if they'd gone with, if the girls had taken the creature and hidden or, you know, who knows, like giving it aid or whatever. Anyway, the girl, Liliani, Katya stayed behind. The youngest, she was like maybe 14. Liliani was 16. Katya was 21. Liliani ran back and grabbed Katya and yanked her out of there. And then the reason why we're pretty sure that that's the same being that Dr. Italo had direct telepathic communication with in captivity is because we did all aerial photography of the area. And if you look at where the girls came in encounter it, like late afternoon with the creature, just a few blocks away is where the capture occurred.

58:34It had to be the same being. It was just literally two blocks away from where the two military officers, Marco Chiris and Eric Lopes, captured the creature around six o 'clock, something like that, about two hours later, two, two and a half. And then they took it to one little clinic, and apparently the doctor came out and took one look in the back seat, and there was, you know, Marco, Cherie's military officer with this creature on it. And he's like, I don't know what that thing is, but get it out of here. So then they went to regional hospital, and that's where Italo was. So it makes perfectly good sense.

59:11We knew that that creature went to regional. And so when the women saw it, it was like brown or darker. Yeah. And then when he saw it, it was somehow white. It was more of a white, big red eyes, just like the girls described, the little ridges on the forehead, just like that. Spindly arms, same height, same exact body structure, everything exactly the same, but the skin was more white. Do you think it was because it was emitting the ammonia or sulfur? Because both, everybody says that it was, smelled like rotten eggs. And it was ammonia or sulfur or some sort of smell. She immediately smelled ammonia.

59:52It was like rotten eggs, a very strong odor. I had to cover my nose with the shirt I was wearing. I couldn't stand the smell that was right here inside my nose. It lasted for about 20 days, and I have no idea where that awful odor came from. I even went so far as to wash my nose with alcohol and water just to get rid of that smell. Stayed in the sinuses for days, if not weeks. Right. And like, there was another one, which was one of the deceased ones. We interviewed a radiologist. I think he was at Regional Hospital. Pretty sure it was regional. And he said that the room where he did the performance of doing the x-rays that stank, like, they had to close that wing of the hospital down for days.

1:00:37And they disinfected the whole thing. And he said it took days and it was in his sinuses. It was everywhere. Did the smell leave? What? But even after being washed and disinfected, the epidemic smell still lingered in the ward. In fact, our sector was closed because it couldn't accommodate external patients due to the very strong odor. So we're having a big meeting in a week. We're meeting with pretty much all the doctors. Wow. Yeah. some of them you know at humanitas hospital uh have stories some of them aren't ready to come forward just yet some of them might want to come forward but there's power in numbers strength in numbers and um according to the book by roger lear uh there was another creature that was alive that went under a procedure because a lot of them got hurt in the crash evidently um that also had communication with the two doctors but they're at humanitas so we're trying to find those guys right now.

1:01:40And Roger Lear was contacting me. It was probably 2013. And he was like, I know you're doing something on, on Virginia and I got to talk to you. I got to talk to you. I said, yeah, we definitely got to talk. Let me come. I got to go on camera. There's things that he discussed. And, uh, and I said, I kept like postponing, postponing. I was so busy. I was working like 17 hour days. I was so busy. I could barely talk. And, um, he goes, well, you got really angry with me. And he was like, well, if you're not going to meet with me, I said, Roger, Dr. Lear, Roger, I, it's not that I don't want to meet with you.

1:02:10I just, I don't have the bandwidth right now. And he goes, well, look, take my tapes. Gives me his tapes. And I don't know how much time went by, but I don't know. I can't say. Uh, but I transferred the tapes. I sent them back to him and he died. And then, uh, fast forward. And that was very unfortunate. Fast forward, probably 10 years, I'm guessing, or ish, I was making moment of contact because I was going to include Virginia in the phenomenon. And then I just couldn't squeeze it in. There's too many moving parts. Anyway, so when I was making the whole movie on it, I was like, oh shit. I was like, the Roger Lear tapes.

1:02:51So I got the tapes. He wrote a book, got the book. And the book was a transcription from the tapes, because I had the tapes and I read the book. But there was one section that wasn't in the tapes that was in the book, and that was he met with two doctors from Humanitas Hospital, and they talk about a creature that was also undergoing some sort of procedure, Humanitas, and then all of a sudden there's this crazy thing that occurs in the room where there's this communication and weird smoke and just crazy. And the communication is basically like the entity saying to the doctors that we feel sorry for you, the human race, because you don't realize your potential, who you really are.

1:03:33Really? Yes. Which is the same message that the Renro Zimbabwe. Yes. It's the same message with these school children, where it's like you don't understand how special you are and your potential. True potential and stuff like this. So I was like, oh my gosh, if I could just get the name. And apparently Uba Dejado Rodriguez, who was one of the leading investigators, a lawyer, um, who's gone. I don't know what happened to him. Pacaccini got threatened. He disappeared for 20 years. Uber to Gianna Rodriguez. God knows what he has because he hasn't come forward and said yet. Pacaccini apparently was shot at.

1:04:07Really? Yeah. He talks about it recently because he disappeared for 20 years. Where's Pacaccini? He said he was shot at. He was shot at and he had a gun and he shot back. And he says he would put his right hand on the Bible. Yes, he said he would testify like, like he would, he would put his right hand on a Bible and he would take a public lie detector test. about there being video and footage of this alien that he saw. I'm Vittorio Pacaccini. I am one of the leading investigators of the Virginia incident since the very beginning. I know and I saw with my own eyes an alien creature kept in captivity in this 35-second video.

1:04:46It was right there, one of the alien creatures with two militaries holding the creature by the shoulders. The creature was really ill, was not feeling good at all. They tried to give the creature some fruit and water. It didn't accept. And the reason why they filmed this creature without superior authorization, it's because they were pretty mad that the American militaries were coming to Brazil to take all these materials, not only the pictures, the footage, but the creatures itself and the spacecraft, as they took it to the United States. So some other military friend of mine had the chance, without authorization, to make this movie.

1:05:39And right now, I'm willing to put my right hand tomorrow on a Bible and take a live public light detector test that everything I'm telling you is the truth. Yeah. Now, he grew up in Tres Corazones, which is like the region, Minas Gerais, where the Eza military base is. So he knew all those people that worked at the base. They knew him. He grew up there. So, like, after all the investigations, his life threatened and all the stuff that went down, he said he disappeared. I think he went to go live with his mother or something somewhere for 20 years. and then when moment of contact the first version came out in 2022 that's when peccuccine came back on the radar and it was like hey you know what i'm ready to get back in the ring yeah and and finish this fight and so yeah so you have you have multiple people in the hospital system you've now gotten military whistleblowers you have civilian witnesses i have the guy that drove it you have the guy that drove the being yeah that saw it and drove it to say like the amount of disparate uncorrelated sources, I think, is just unbelievable.

1:06:44And that comes from you literally touching down in Virginia and on a piece of paper, like, do you know what happened in 1996? What does he think about the case? Does he think it happened or didn't happen? Absolutely. What are your feelings on Virginia? I believe. It's always the same thing that appeared, that the girls saw. I really believe in the case of Virginia. You have two types of people in this movie, people who are extremely afraid and admitting what they saw. And all of those stories line up. Everything lines up perfectly. It all lines up perfectly. You have a flight path of the UFO. You have all these witnesses in these disparate places who aren't coordinating clearly.

1:07:23And then so that's one type of person. And then you have the other type of people that are like lying through their teeth. And so obvious, like the commander at, so he says, General Lima. We're in touch with him now, by the way. Oh, amazing. You got to talk to him because even if he lies to you, you know, it's like you see the smugness when he goes, you know, we were serving our country that day. Yeah, national security. Can we get some details on like how you served the country that day? What you did? He said, no, absolutely not. But he says it in such a condescending, cynical, like, I don't care what you think sort of way, and then walks away.

1:08:28There was another part to this when interviews were conducted, and that's when Euclides and Calado, the two young men from here, traveled all the way to the sergeant's school of arms in Tres Corazones. Then they managed to ask a question. Then the sergeant went inside, came back and said, no, but aren't you going to say anything about the case? Look, if you ask one more question, you'll be arrested. We were investigating the case at the ESA headquarters, the Sergeant School of Arms, and I had never been arrested for doing my job, neither before nor after this case. I was just having a normal, regular day at the barracks, you know?

1:09:14Then around 9 o 'clock in the morning, we received orders, a mission to get some vehicles ready, you know, some trucks specifically for an important operation, and that we, our unit, would be deploying, we would be moving out, heading directly to the city of Virginia. We were given the order that we should proceed to follow a number of specific vehicles, which were clearly unmarked and definitely not military. So I followed this military man, you know, who was from the Secret Service, passing through the city center near the hospital, if I'm not mistaken, the regional hospital. And afterwards, we went to Humanitas Hospital.

1:10:01When the instruction was given to... to back a vehicle up into Humanitas Hospital... When I was approaching the entrance, how exactly can I express it of the hospital's immediate surroundings, I noticed a container, a stainless steel table with a container on it, you know, with several doctors and other staff members holding clipboards. As I was analyzing, it seemed that everyone else was also caught up in the same thing. And when I realized, I saw something completely different. You know, a different kind of creature with skin that was very oily, very... I describe it as having a sort of silicone-like texture.

1:10:54And that sight really startled me. But what truly caught my attention, what later convinced me that it wasn't a human being at all, was its foot.

1:11:08Everyone was completely taken aback by the news. they were all incredibly incredibly surprised we have for the first time ever as well we have the police officer which had been trying to get to him for so long marco leal was going by his house knocking on his door he would set up arrangements for us to meet with him and it was always it was like slipping between your it's like trying to grab a bar of soap in the bathtub you know it's like poo poo like you got your hand on it but then it's like gone you know and that was the the former chief of police agriar um pedro agriar and he had he had he had allegedly according to people that would tracked him down he had a photograph of one of the things but anyway um he described the activity at the base he was at the base as chief of police he was invited in there and he said that he described it just like everybody else every single bit of testimony from separate people from all over the area all fits perfectly it's like putting together a piece of puzzle right not once have we had it any other way like you know we're putting these pieces together so now the piece we're missing is on the american side and we want to get with humanitas hospital so it's like ongoing yeah well the the chief police says this is not a story it's history yes and you know you remember well oh yeah it's a great movie and it's it's he just He said, you know, this happened.

1:12:30I participated. He said, I participated. Absolutely. And are you at all conspiratorial about the fact that he just died and that you were about to go in a couple of weeks to go see him? Yeah, again, I know. And allegedly he has a photo of the ET being. Yeah. Do you think that that timing is coincidental? I mean, anything's possible. It's very unfortunate. Was he in good health? Do you know? I mean, you see him on camera. yeah and that was that was you filmed that what you filmed that like not too long ago we knocked so it was really crazy actually it was just a couple months ago and um we were we're going to doorstep him on the way to varginio and i say doorstep and just show up at the door right yeah and uh for some reason i was like i want to stop and get a slice of pizza and everyone's like we got to keep moving it was like five o 'clock or 4 30 or something i really was really hungry and i wanted to get a slice of pizza we stopped reluctantly half the crew was like oh we got to keep moving, blah, blah, blah.

1:13:28Well, as it turns out, it was perfect because we, the owner of the pizza joint, you know, gave us pizza, gave us like really good, you know, we took like an hour and we just spent a really fun time having pizza with the owner of this pizza joint and near the area where we're going. But it set us back at least, at least 60 minutes, possibly 90 minutes. But, you know, it was a little later, maybe it was like seven, seven 30 at that point. And we show up at his house and they had just gotten home like 10 minutes earlier. So we would have missed him had we not gone and stopped to get that pizza. And, uh, what we did was, is we, you know, we started talking to him at the door.

1:14:04Then we went inside and we had, we had some, we had audio. One of us had audio rolling and the guy in the car outside had, you know, our sound guy had a, you know, it was remote transmitted back to a receiver. That was just, you know, the audio. And then we're talking, getting to know his wife, his son. And then I said, would you mind if we bring a camera in here just to kind of you know document the moment a little bit just ease our way into it no that's okay so him comes the camera we're all sitting down talking and his wife i'll never forget this and i think i have a cut of it somewhere but his wife had these like her eyes were so big and like kind of just like and her wife was looking at her husband like like just wouldn't blink and i'm looking over at my cameraman dave and i'm like are you getting you know she's just looking at him like i'm thinking does she does she have the photograph like does she oh you know i don't know yeah is she worried that we're in there probing yeah and and at one point we asked him like when things got more comfortable and he goes i'm a i participate i'm a witness he saw the creature under a tarp maybe the bottom half or something and then he went into as a military base to the activity helicopters coming and landing He goes, more brass than I'd ever seen ever before.

1:15:19Like there were higher ups from all different corners of Brazil all there. Maybe even implying at some point the American, no, he did say the Americans came, they came to Campinas. He said that too. Yeah. And took the goodies. But, um, but, uh, he seemed to be in relatively good health. I mean, he, you know, it didn't look like he was going to win like a triathlon or anything, but he was in, I mean, he's in the movie. Yep. And, um, and he just died. yeah and he might have had a photo or footage well we talked to two witnesses one of the primary reasons that led us to him were two people that described he pulled the photograph out and showed it and it had uh one alive one one deceased creature and it had uh military police and a fire department uh in the picture with their faces that you know that's according to the witnesses that we talked to and when i pressed him on it and i want to push too hard but i definitely pressed him on it i've got the footage he said um i was like well when i talked to you a couple years ago on a video zoom call you can you confess that you had the photograph or at one point you had the photograph and now you're saying you don't have the photograph like what's you know and i really pressed him on it um what did he say he said well there's certain things within the police department that have to go on set or something like that.

1:16:41Come on, dude. Just let it out. You know, and I feel the frustration from people out there like, oh, there's not a picture. There's not a video. First of all, I never give up and I'm not giving up. I will never give up. I'm getting closer. We are as a team are getting closer and closer and closer. And the developments that are happening are unprecedented. It's an ongoing investigation. I'm not giving up. I think this is the case that's going to blow it all out in the open. That's my humble opinion because I can't think of a better crash retrieval case involving the Americans. It's recent enough for the most of the people are still alive, right?

1:17:17Like, unless you can, I can't think of a crash retrieval case with live aliens better than Virginia. No, I think it's the best recent case. And, and, um, again, I think if this were a murder case, you'd have more than enough evidence that It happened. Yes. No question. And so, like, there's this, you know, you want a smoking gun? Maybe you don't have that. But, like, I bet you in the world of deep fakes, if you produced a photo, the goalposts would move. And there'd still be skeptics who'd say, oh, look at the photo. It's blah, blah, blah. It's blurry. Blah, blah, blah. You know. Unless the neurosurgeon who shot the video came forward so you have provenance.

1:17:56That would. I think that'd be pretty good. I think that would be about as good as you can get. I think that'd be as good as I get. And then it is what it is. It is what it is. Yeah. Jose Fernandez is this air traffic controller. Yes. Who, what does he see? His unit was responsible for monitoring specific airspace over the state of Sao Paulo. Do you know anything about this case? What I am aware of is that the U.S. Air Force made a landing in Campinas. A specific aircraft belonging to the United States Air Force landed there in Campinas, and following that, two helicopters took off from the very same Campinas airport, proceeding to an entirely unknown destination, which we later came to understand was the city of Virginia.

1:18:42They landed, collected something that no one knows what it was, then returned to Campinas, placed it inside the USF aircraft, and then they took off, they were gone. And the mission was, what we were told was silence. So it was really funny, actually, because let's back up a little bit, but a couple of years, and I was just talking to Lou Elizondo about this. Lou was pestering me before I had a final cut of the first version of Moment of Contact, and he was like, I need a copy. And little did I know about what was happening behind the scenes. I need a copy. I said, Lou, it's not done. He goes, I don't care.

1:19:25I need a copy. And I said, okay, sure. He goes, if you had any idea who's watching this right now. And basically Lou was like, okay, this case is absolutely amazing. But the air traffic controller who talked about USAAF coming in without any government regulations, they didn't have government approval. USAAF is US Air Force. Exactly. But I kept hearing USAAF and I was like, USAAF, what's this guy talking? Oh, oh, United States Air Force, the acronym USAF. And that was one of the aspects that Lou really wanted to share. To this day, he hasn't told me exactly who's watching it, but I think he was like, maybe if there are certain restrictions on people like Lou or Grush, who knows, like they could show him the movie, show him the compelling case, eyewitness testimony, and then having the flight control, what do you call the radar control officer, the people that monitor the planes that are coming into Brazil.

1:20:18That's, what do you call that? Air traffic controller. Air traffic controller. Okay. So it would have been air traffic controller talked about this. You have to have government approval to land a foreign plane coming into, you know, Brazilian soil. And apparently this plane deviated from going to Sao Paulo to Campinas. And Campinas is where we know, according to all the eyewitnesses, including the guy that drove it, that's where the ET went. So for the United States, the USAF landed Campinas makes perfectly good sense. Like I said earlier, all the pieces of the puzzle line up, it all lines up perfectly.

1:20:53Like every single person, there's not been one conflicting testimony. There's been a date here and there where it's like, oh, well, maybe it was earlier, maybe it was later, we don't know. But everything else lines up perfectly. And you used the United States Freedom of Information Act to try to get information from the Air Force about flight laws. You saw that, yes. And from the U.S. to Virginia in 1996, and what came back? Well, I tried to cover all of our bases and our team, we filed a FOIA and in 2022, I think it was. Yeah, it was probably 2022. And I'd forgotten about it, quite honestly, because it's like years went by.

1:21:31And all of a sudden we get a response from the CIA, which is weird. I don't know. I mean, I'm not a huge FOIA guy, but I mean, the CIA? Yeah. Like, really? And it's basically like, you know, because I asked for records. I was thinking like, okay, so let's just like back up. Let's give it like a window of 10 days or whatever. So we know the incident happened. A lot of the sightings were on the 20th of January. So why don't you back it up a little bit? Crash a little earlier. So I think it was like January 13th to say January 27th, something like this. Just to cover, you know, any planes that came in from the United States Air Force, what was it, 10-day window, two-week window, that landed in Campinas, get all those flight records.

1:22:09Because I was talking to an individual who for a long time was anonymous, and then he was so knowledgeable. I was like, wow, this guy is incredible. Who are you? And he goes, well, actually, I'm a colonel in the United States Air Force. I was a fighter pilot, blah, blah, blah. And he has since come forward with us. And he had a really dramatic UFO encounter in 1980 or something like that. But he was giving me guidance on like what to ask and where to ask and all that stuff. And blanket statement from the CIA. Okay. Basically, that's like either national security classified or exempt from FOIA because of XYZ.

1:22:45Because of this 1949 provision, secrecy provision. I can't even get a flight record? It's always a tell, too, when you request from one agency and then they forward it to the other agency, which the other agency would obviously have. You know, this article came out in the Daily Mail about the Office of Global Access run under the CIA around their rapid response, you know, global crash retrieval team. And the article is amazing. Like it mentions, I think, Doug Wolf as like the head of the OGA. And so they probably would have been in charge of this sort of thing. So the fact that the Air Force is forwarding this to the CIA is such a tell.

1:23:24The CIA runs all foreign intelligence, obviously, for the U.S., such a tell that they were involved in this case. I mean, it's honestly funny. It's like an admission of, you know, involvement in some ways. You know, I just interviewed a guy named Dan Sherman, and he wrote a book called Above Black. And he was— It's a cool title. Amazing title. Insane story. He was Air Force Electronics Intelligence. All of his stuff with, you know, his ELINT Electronics Intelligence career lines up with like I've I've had multiple ELINT people come out after this interview I've done with him saying this guy was definitely U.S.

1:24:03Air Force ELINT. Like, just very matter of fact, very intelligent, kind of on the kind of traditional vector of signals intelligence. And he said that he was part of this secret NSA program, and it was called Project Preserve Destiny. And it was, he was supposed to do this kind of continuing ELINT education, you know, in Air Force. But while he was there, he was taken to this complex, this NSA complex at Maryland. This was in 1991 or two. And he was told to drink this, you know, drink and and then kind of hook himself up, like match the tones that he would hear with these headphones that this computer would would play and lock into them.

1:24:46And that's how he would kind of gain telepathic access to alien communication. And this was really interesting. Independently, this researcher FOIA, the Air Force, said, does, you know, just asking for information about Project Preserve Destiny. His name is Noah Roddick. I've been, Noah, if you're out there, please confirm this because I don't believe he mentioned Dan Sherman's name at all. They forward the FOIA request to the NSA. That's telling right there. Yeah, and the NSA, of course, gets back and says, you know, we can't confirm the existence or non-existence of this program. In fact, didn't they say that in my FOIA, right?

1:25:24Yeah, it's the same thing. Right? Yeah, but it's such, the bigger tell is you have one agency forwarding it to the other agency it's like okay that then the second agency was obviously involved why wouldn't the agency you sent the initial thing to just for small absolutely yeah i got i get i get emails all the time people reaching on all the various platforms i got an email from someone and i could pretty much like i could read it pretty quickly and determine you know what i mean like some experience i've heard i've had been contacted by alleged witnesses and stuff like that yeah for decades and you could kind of sift out the crazy pretty quickly and um i think it was like a year ago maybe maybe a little over a year ago i got this email and i read it and i just i time stopped i was like oh my gosh and it was basically someone that claimed uh i have the email i'll show it to you offline um claimed to have been part of the Virginia operation from Campinas.

1:26:26It was a USAF. He goes, I was on the flight. No way. Yes. I swear to God. What happened? Did you get in touch? Well, so I was like, oh my, it was just this moment. Like I was just, I was overwhelmed with excitement. Right. And I gave all the details. I'll let you read it. And, um, I was involved. This is weighed on me for almost 30 years and my family. What? Yeah. You have to be very careful how you reach out to me. If you do it this way or that way, I'm going to cut all ties. Like it has to be this way, you know, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, I'll, whatever you want, let's do it. Whatever makes you comfortable.

1:26:59Then I didn't hear anything for about 24 hours, maybe a little longer. And this individual said, oh, my systems were hacked. And that wasn't me that wrote that. No way. So. Did you do some follow-up and research? Oh, hell yeah. To figure out who this person was? So, yes. And, but when this individual reached out, and I have a Proton email now, which I'll provide to you. You can put it on the screen at some point. Yeah, well, yeah. Because it was through Google. It was through Gmail when I thought, well, that was silly. Like, why did you contact me through Gmail? Yeah. You know, that's easily hacked and it really worried me when I got it.

1:27:35Yeah. But the only way, he didn't leave me a number or I couldn't find him on Signal. So I responded just the way he told me to respond. And the feeling I had, certainly from his response later, was that somebody, he got a phone call, something happened, shut this down. I don't know. But it seems so authentic. Like, it seems so, like, this guy was really part of it. I don't know if that guy is listening to this message right now in any way, shape, or form. Like, reach out. You'll provide the Proton email that I'll give you. You can put it on the screen. I'll put it up. Yeah, yeah. Thanks, yeah.

1:28:06But so, did you do some background research on this person? I did through some connections of mine, yes. And what's the Air Force? Marines. He was Marines. Marines, yeah. Okay. Okay. And so is it plausible that what he was saying was correct? Very. Interesting. Yeah. I mean, Gabe, like, you'll see. Do you find any colleagues of his or anything? No. And, you know, since then I was putting out the program and then in record time I put out the new cut of Moment of Contact, nine months from concept to completion to delivery, nine months, which is a history. Like I have had so little bandwidth for anything else.

1:28:48There's so many things to follow up on. I'm going back and forth to Brazil. We got to find this guy. Have you heard of Jonathan Weigand? Yes. I interviewed him in the 90s with, uh. Yeah. What am I talking about? You have an interview with Jonathan Weigand, which Stephen Greer edited down in a weird way. Yeah. I was actually there for that interview. And I, I went around the country with Stephen Greer just because I was like, oh, this guy says he's got all this access to people. And I wasn't even prepared for landing cases, a little loan crash cases back then. I mean, I heard about Roswell, but I met him and he was in his 20s and I was in my 20s.

1:29:21And I was like, boy, this guy. And he was so paranoid at the time. This is the 90s. Well, he was beat up. He was paranoid. And he was talking about, like it was one of the interviews that I was on, Stephen Greer's. Anyway, he left an indelible impression on me because I saw behind the scenes how terrified he was. He was debating on whether or not he didn't even come forward at the last possible minute. that he talked about. I think either he was in the helicopter or they mentioned the fact they could take him up in the helicopter. It was a very big forest. They could just throw him out anywhere.

1:29:52He would never be seen or heard from again. Well, he went right up to the craft. He went up to the craft. He said there was like a green liquid dripping out of it. He said there was an arm with I think three or four fingers, like a biological piece of an entity. Yeah, and I haven't watched the whole interview since I operated the camera for that interview with Dr. Greer. and um but he left an indelible impression on me like i was like shit was he because he was a marine right yeah that's why i mentioned maybe the connection with this guy reaching out to you maybe there's some you know and the thing is is like i wasn't really prepared at the time to process like crash retrievals anything beyond roswell i know it's been a kind of a slow evolution for my personal like sure my personal journey you know because i'd heard about i heard about That was my first case where I was like, boy, this guy is credible, man.

1:30:41I mean, I felt like he was credible. Seems super credible. This happened in the early 90s. He was a part of Operation Laser Strike in Peru. And this egg-shaped craft crashed into... Dripping. Yes, dripping. There was something dripping from it, and he had telepathic communication with it. It was buried about a 45-degree angle into the side of the cliff there, the ridge. It was dripping this syrup-like viscosity, this liquid. It was everywhere, all down everywhere when we went down there because there were plants and everything. It was weird. It was a purplish-green color, and it kind of fluctuated.

1:31:21You couldn't really. When you'd look at it one time, then you'd look at it again, and it would like. It was almost like, I don't know if it was alive, but it was just changing. But every time you looked at it, you saw a different shade of greenish-purple. And the being was basically sending him very similar signals that sent Venturelli, the neuroscientist, and the daughters, sorry, the women. It was saying, help me, help me. And he started to walk towards the craft. And they showed up. And then they apprehended him. They beat him up. People in Virginia are terrified that don't have evidence. Just the fact that they witnessed the event or drove the creature or whatever aspect they experienced, they're terrified.

1:32:10Now, obviously the ultimate holy grail of evidence that I'm bending over backwards to get my hands on and we keep getting close is film footage. yeah now i know through experience that if i do get my hands on it and bloody well we've gotten close uh i got something to worry about and i've thought about that many times like uh could i upload it to a server could i send it to 10 different people like how do i deal with that that scenario in fact i had a really recent i had a really vivid dream just recently um really vivid like in fact when i was watching your show with joe rogan yeah he had he had that dream yes that really vivid i had a really vivid dream where i was in i was in virginia and i was in a very crowded area i think it was like a conference or we're having a screening or something and um lots of activity lots of and some gentleman walked up to me and he handed me a thumb drive and he just slipped in my pocket and he just looked at me and he kept walking i was like shit i've got this this has to be the footage right but in my dream i was going what do i do And then I just felt this dude.

1:33:26Maybe that happens. I just got the chill. Now I have a target on my back. Like, what do I do? Like, I feel like I'd have a target on my back to get the hell out of there. I need to get it uploaded as quickly as possible. You know, go to a fancy hotel in Sao Paulo. I don't know. But anyway, if there's one thing that I've learned in this field, don't draw quick conclusions. Don't have that knee-jerk reaction. Like, suspend your judgment. Listen to the testimony. because it's so easy to go, that's impossible. That couldn't possibly have happened without the whole world knowing about it. Well, that's people have an allergic reaction to everything that doesn't fit their kind of mental model of how the world works.

1:34:05But it should always be follow the evidence. Absolutely. It should always be like, okay, what actually happened? And then there's beyond that, there's speculation as to what those things are. I often think even UFO researchers jump to the conclusion that it's a thing came from another planet. When, you know, we don't know what these things are. That's why they use non-human intelligence, which on the one hand sometimes seems sanitized PC and part of some controlled disclosure. Like UAP was supposed to UFO. Like UAP is supposed to UFO. And I like UFO better than UAP. I do too. You know, I think it's kind of better in old school.

1:34:40But like also, I kind of like the NHI thing because it's, we don't know. We don't know. We don't know. And you really just have to follow the evidence specifically. And you have great theorists, people like Mike Masters, you talk about them being beings from the future. And maybe they are being, who knows? I'll be the first one to admit, I have absolutely no idea where they come from, what they want, why they're here. Yeah. I can speculate. I can look at like. I don't think the government is sure of that either. But, you know, and I, okay, over the decades, I've gone, you know, you look at what they do.

1:35:17and that's pretty compelling but then you look at what they don't do because all they'd have to do to reveal their presence openly would be to hover over the next Super Bowl right? I mean, but they don't do that. They've done some pretty bold moves over the years like in the 50s, 57 I think in Italy some big game they were Oh yeah, yeah, 50, yeah, yeah You know, they've done some pretty cool stuff I mean, Phoenix, Arizona was pretty phenomenal I was when everyone's under the night sky to get a glimpse of the Hellbob comet and that massive boomerang-shaped craft and other crafts as well. Pretty bold, pretty bold stuff, you know?

1:35:53But then you look at Travis Walton and it's like, well, they clearly, if you're going to take the account of seven witnesses, you know, at face value, they cared enough about him. He probably got in the way of the propulsion where they grabbed him, fixed him, and then deposited him in an area on the outskirts of town that was close enough to like he could get help, but not too close to reveal their presence. They cared about him, but had they dropped him off where they picked him up, right? He wouldn't have made it. It's a very remote area of the Snowflake, Arizona, up in the mountains where that encounter occurred.

1:36:26So I thought about, like, I think about those things. I think about, you know, Socorro, like Officer Lonnie Zamora, like face contact, you know, locked eyes with one of these beings. They got back in the craft and left. Like they didn't want to have contact. They didn't want to have communication. much more than anything, whatever happened when he looked into the eyes of these creatures. So they're in on the secrecy as well. Yes. Clearly. Yes. Right? I mean, you can draw that conclusion pretty definitively, I would say. That many of these experiencers. Yes. Yes. Exactly. If you take their accounts at face value that, but there is some level of contact.

1:37:01I mean, look at Rua. I mean, look at 1966 Westall, you know, thank you, Shane Ryan and James Rigney. That case is compelling because, you know, once again, it was a school, 1030 in the morning, broad daylight, broad daylight, 300 plus witnesses standing out there watching this disc zip around in the sky with a little airplane falling around it. And then the thing lands. And then the kids run over and a handful of the kids see it sitting on the ground within 10 feet. That's a pretty bold move, I would say. Yes. You know, as far as sightings go. Yeah. Yeah. In plain sight. Yeah. Anyway, it's a complex, it's so complex.

1:37:40And I feel, I feel almost like I know less today than I did 30 plus years ago. Although I know the phenomenon's real. I know there's a cover-up. I know that the government, I say no, I feel very comfortable the government has got very definitive evidence about this, you know, bodies and craft and all that stuff. I just, I don't know what they know. In fact, I just asked somebody who'll probably, I'll remain nameless, but I was talking to somebody that I feel would be in a position to know and i said i was like how many people have the bigger picture and this individual was like and i believe me i trust this individual and um um 10 10 have the bigger picture that doesn't mean they have the full scope yeah but yeah and i said well so like how many people know what you know he goes about 30 i was like so 30 people know what you know it's like well um is it i've heard that some people say it's a little scary is it scary and uh the individual's like yeah i guess it could be a little scary yeah yeah it's a little scary i know i'm dying to know right you know maybe with the information they have isn't correct or who knows and um i looked over and leslie keen was watching me have this conversation you know this is recently and i see her looking at me across the room and she's like looking at me she knows she goes i know that look on your face james when i see you locked like you're you really want to know something she goes i didn't want to interfere and i'm like just about so i was like well what well um it's like well what uh what's the intent you know and then somebody like butts in and hey you know i've always wanted to meet you know i'm sitting there like oh like i don't know if i would have gotten it or not but according to this individual that that it's not like they didn't i didn't have to fear for my safety kind of thing and this could be all wrong i don't know but but that the intent was a little scary a little scary yeah yeah well what do i know i don't know it's hard to say jesse i don't know i don't i don't either you know and that's that felt like the framing of the age of disclosure, like there, you know, that there was some sort of, um, you know, they were prepping the battle space and they care about our nuclear assets because it's just like we would do ISR on a foreign adversary or whatever.

1:40:11You want to know what they're working with. I don't believe that. I don't, I don't. Um, and that's not to say, you know, if you're, you're a hammer, everything's supposed to look like a nail. And so if your job is American national security, like, you know, maybe that's the way you're supposed to orient yourself towards this, but like, I don't, I don't believe that. And I don't, I don't think that should be people's a priori biases going in, especially if that's their first touch point towards, you know, the phenomenon. That's, that's not my personal belief. And yeah, I mean, look, you just spoke to, you know, Tala Venturelli and, you know, this is the, this thing was like an angel and it was higher consciousness than ours.

1:40:49And it wanted us to know how special we are and even that could be a form of deception you know it's always like you know you guys are doing harm via like you know these environmental catastrophes that could be some sort of deception where they're trying to clamp down and control us who knows but i think i think knowing that they're bad somehow i mean this this thing's been whatever's been going on it's been going on for a long time i think well before roswell well before magenta in the 30s Look at Wonders in the Sky by Jacques Vallée. That's a great example. Incredible. Yeah, or Passport to Magonia.

1:41:24Passport to Magonia, exactly. So this has been going on for a long, long time. So I just, the idea that there's going to be some sort of rapid juncture or break in their orientation towards us, where they start to view us as some sort of big threat, you know, I do think they do care about our nuclear stuff and are trying to enforce some sort of homeostasis of the Earth, protect it. Perhaps it could affect their reality. Yeah, it could affect them somehow. That's interesting. But I mean, you'll hear things like, oh, they activated the nuclear sequence. Well, guess what? They turned it off after they activated it.

1:42:00They always turn it off. In most cases, they deactivate it. In most cases, they deactivate it. Yeah. So, yeah, I don't know if I buy that. But I'm open, but I, you know. The one line that I always remember, and I actually think I got this with Tim Coleman when I was doing Out of the Blue. I should watch Out of the Blue again. It's been a while. But Robert Salas, former launch control officer, I just love this line. And I'm sure a lot of you have heard it. But I was like, well, wow, it's amazing. These craft we're seeing over the base and these nuclear installation during the peak of the Cold War, blah, blah, blah, blah.

1:42:37And he's like, yeah. He's very calm. And I could see exactly why he was a launch control officer because he was very measured and every word was carefully crafted. And he was just calm. You know the kind of guy that you want in your corner when all hell's breaking loose, right? Because he's going to be very methodical, measured, and not panic and do the wrong. And he's like, yeah, you know, James' message was pretty clear in my book. It's almost like taking matches out of the hands of a baby. You know, I thought, wow, that's pretty cool. Whoa. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is cool. And Solace. It's kind of reassuring a little bit.

1:43:11It is. And you know what? He's not alone. Most of those guys who are in Bob Hastings, amazing book, UFOs and nukes say that that's what they, you know, they're like, we don't know, but we think that the message is, you know, you guys are playing with fire and not, you know, we're trying to deactivate your tip of the sphere defenses against us. Not that we're trying to dominate. We're talking between September of 66 and March of 67, we lost 30 missiles to UFO activity. It's wild. Yeah. 30. 30. That's pretty, pretty insane. And I do think what that guy said to you as far as, I think, I think there is a tip of the spear as far as government knowledge on this stuff.

1:44:00But I think if, if, you know, maybe the biggest misconception of all is that they understand all of it. You know, I think they're learning from you just as much as you're learning from them. I really do that. It was really funny. You think that? Yeah. Go for it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I was at this event, and I was with Leslie, and there were all these men in suits. And she's like, hey, these guys are from the agency. And I pretty much knew that. They were very nice. And I didn't assume anything. I was like, oh, yeah, and I've been investigating this case in Virginia. And they're like, oh, yeah, no, we know exactly what you've been doing.

1:44:34Not in a threatening way, but we follow, oh, yeah, we're following this really closely. For sure. Like, you know, isn't that funny? Yeah. No, I get that all the time. Of course you do. Yeah. And I've had people on the inside ask about you. Oh, there you go. Like, what do you think about this guy, Jesse Michaels? I was like, he's fucking amazing. That guy's putting the pieces of the puzzle together that I just like, whoa. I'm taking notes on the sideline. That's why I mentioned you on Joe Rogan because I was like, this guy earned it. That was the nicest plug I think I will ever get. You earned that, brother.

1:45:08That means so much to me. You earned it. It came from here. Well, I know it did. I know it did. And I got emotional just watching it because it was, that was like 10 minutes or something. You were a rock star by the end of it. Cause Joe didn't know me then. And he was just like, okay, I guess you love this Jesse guy. Thanks, Jane. Cause I've been watching you work and I'm like, this guy's operating on another level. Like you're just incredible. The way you're putting the piece of the puzzle together and like doing deep dives and all these different aspects. I was like, whoa like this is incredible well we're i'm standing on the shoulders of giants and and and there's no way you know like you were making movies while you were painting fences yes and it's just brandon rebar pouring cement painting houses parking cars yeah yeah so like i think it's really easy to post destigmatization of the whole topic new york times article in 2017 all this stuff you know it's easy to make these youtube videos so uh you know i i i think you know all of us who are doing that owe you a huge debt oh people like jeremy corbell and ross colthart a huge debt and so yeah no it's uh thank you for saying that but oh yeah and there are people like me too like uap i get so many people ask me to do that and i don't i and i so many people oh i heard you're going i always try to keep it secretive i heard you're going on like can you please you know no, no, no.

1:46:34It's like, you earned it. It's like, when you called me and you said, thanks so much, I was like, dude, don't thank me, man. You earned that one. Like, yeah, I meant it. Yeah. I really, I really meant the, the world to me and, and Joe's become a good friend. That's incredible. When I saw him on your show, I was like, my God. Yeah. That's so cool. That was the most surreal moment. So cool. It was so epic. Cause he, he's also, he respects you too. Like he's got tremendous respect for you. I don't know. It's incredible. Yeah, it's so nice. Maybe both of you guys should aim higher. It's always nice to feel appreciated.

1:47:07Everybody wants to feel appreciated. And one of the things I'd love to say right here and right now is, I really like to see more kindness between fellow researchers, everyone really. I agree. Especially with the people you disagree with. Yeah. You know? And less impugning people's motives and thinking that they're bad faith actors. absolutely because and there are all these people who i went into this world thinking oh but they're part of the insider crew yeah or whatever and then i'd meet them and i'd realize that like yeah maybe they know a few like kind of spooky-ish people or whatever but they're really just trying to figure it out and they're trying to get the information you know a good example of that is actually tom de long yeah we're like you know i i uh you know recently when he went on rogan yeah it was too much yeah it was too much too soon well well because he was probably right right he was right about a lot of stuff i think but he he it was um too much where he wasn't in a position to he could like say a high level thing and then rogan obviously wants to get low level he wants to know all the details and then he would say like i can't really fully you know tell you like i'll tell you after the show yeah i was like i can't wait for the show to end right but um you I find him to be extremely earnest and cool and smart and have some sort of working worldview around this thing that seems to be pretty coherent.

1:48:33And I think a lot of his engagement with people on the inside were his own just really vigilante desire to get a lot of this stuff out in any way he could. And he has some interesting stories that I hope he tells at some point. I want to shift gears for a second because you have just a compendium of incredible historical interviews and interactions with some of the people who are the most important people in UFO history. I want to talk about Philip J. Corso. Yes. You have maybe the last interview with him alive. Yeah. He obviously wrote The Day After Roswell. He was head of the Pentagon's foreign technology desk.

1:49:15He was a witness to the creatures. Maybe. Well, he says he was. He says he was, but in the day after Roswell, that was also co-written by William J. Burns. Right. And that might have been... But no, but I interviewed him, and he told me about when he was taken in at Fort... It was okay. So they started the journey in Roswell by truck, I believe it was, and some of the debris went to right pat on an airplane, but I think the bodies, according to Corso... Yeah. There was a stop along the way. In any case, he said that he'd heard that there were some bodies, and they went in and they opened up the caskets and he saw the body from the Roswell.

1:49:49No way! Yeah, yeah. In early July 1947, Corsa was post-duty officer in Fort Riley, Kansas. There, he claims to have seen a body transported from an airbase in New Mexico. I went back and there was five crates there, like five or six, I think it was five. I lifted one up and here's this body there and floating in fluid. First I thought it was a child because it was small. Then I looked at this head and all. This only happened a matter of seconds. Then I put the head back down. And the head was different, the arms were spindly, the body was gray. So right at that moment I figured, I don't know what this thing is.

1:50:36So like in the intelligence business, I just better put it in the back of my head here and wait until maybe in the future I get cooperation so I can evaluate what it is. And he said that in your interview? Yes. It was really funny, actually, because when I went to the 50th anniversary of the Roswell case that took place in 1997 in Roswell, New Mexico, and it was a scene because we had like members of Congress. there was Congressman Schiff, I think it was, who was saying like, I don't know what's going on here, but I've been getting, you know, I've been getting like stiff-armed by the Air Force, you know, and I'm making inquiries and why would you fly, you know, a weather balloon under armed guard, like, you know.

1:51:18And he noted that all of the Roswell stuff was deleted. Oh yeah, yeah. All the archival material in the government. And they sent him to an agency knowing that agency didn't have anything. And this was all happening. More people were coming forward. And then boom, this guy, you know philip corso who apparently uh according to him he told me this directly from him his mouth to my ears he said that they rushed the book to print with william burns because they wanted to make the they wanted to ride the coattails of the 50th anniversary of roswell and all the attention it was getting and that there were a lot of discrepancies in the book that he was upset about that you know this is what he told me and and i uh when he came to roswell there was a flurry of activity in one of the hangars and he was surrounded by all these news reporters oh my lord you should have seen it was a feeding frenzy like and i'm looking at him and i'm like i gotta get i gotta get an on-camera statement but i was a little kid with a camera and i was like you know what i'm just gonna elbow my way in there i don't care and i fought my way in there and i got my camera and i asked him a couple questions in the movie i'll give it to you you can show it and um and then the next day i found out where he was staying what hotel he was in and i i just like you know what i I went to the reception.

1:52:30I said, oh, I've got a meeting with Philip Corso. Can you, I just forgot what room he's in. Would you mind? You know, and I went to the room and, oh, we were expecting you. Like, you know, and, oh, really? Like, I was like, so we sit down and we do an hour and a half long interview, whatever it was, I don't know, hour, hour and a half. Got a lot of stuff out of him. Again, I'm happy to provide whatever you want. And then Michael Hesseman arrives, German guy. And he was late and he was all sweaty and flustered. And apparently he had scheduled the interview that I got with Corso, but he showed up late.

1:53:08I showed up. I was in the right place at the right time. So I got this sit down interview with Corso when Michael Hesman should have had it. And as it turns out, he was all flustered and he was late and he had no sound gear. So I gave him my sound gear. He said, I got about, I would say it's about an hour and a half. And he talked about why he's coming forward because it was grandkids. And he's like, I'm old. I'm going to die soon. but, you know, I want the world to know this thing happened. I was a witness. I saw. And I remember thinking, because there was a lot of controversy after he died and he was no longer in a position to kind of correct the record, I guess.

1:53:41But I believed him. I believed him. I looked him in the eyes and I really did believe him. And I think I still believe him to this day. And I think he got a really bad rap and maybe it was too much too soon. I don't know. But he told me i'm coming forward for my grandchildren and he goes i saw the bodies like it looked like a little kid big head big eye you know all the typical spindly arms spindly legs how many fingers didn't i don't remember that part because you know it's interesting you say in virginia there were three three digits yeah and and it was uh you know on the the paper it's drawn you know the three fingers or whatever you recreate it and you know i've seen beings in peru that are skeletons with three fingers and the three toes and three three fingers and they carbon date to between 800 and 1700 years ago and one of them has a tridactyl fetus inside of it so there's inheritance between tridactyl mean tridactyl means three fingers so so one of them has a a fetus with three fingers and three toes in it

1:54:46wow they all have dna associated with them and further testing is being done right now so i'm like okay both of these things are happening in south america is that just a skeleton of what and they have elongated heads but they didn't undergo any head binding they don't have any of the stress fractures involved in head binding wow super weird Virginia, Brazil, those things had three fingers and three toes. So the question is... And they saw footprints too in that case. And didn't Dave Grush say that some of the craft recovered were archaeological digs or something like this? Bob Lazar said that.

1:55:23Bob Lazar said that. But David Grush said that the skeletons that I saw in Peru looked like things that he'd seen in classified settings. Wow. So that could be the same thing that happened in Virginia. that being, and we could have literal mummies of those beings for all we know. Bigelow, I remember I met with Bigelow. I got contacted by him in 2009, and I don't think I was ready for what he told me at the time. And I'm quite honestly, I don't know if I'm still not ready. What did he say? Well, it was funny actually, because he talked about the complexities of disclosure. He reached out to me through his secretary, and I still have the email, and they said, Mr.

1:56:01Bigelow wants to congratulate you on a job well done for, I know what I saw. and that's cool I looked up Bigelow and I kind of knew who you know I was like oh wow would Mr. Bigelow like to get together you know yes he would actually and so we arranged a time and I would go to his house and this is like 2009 probably and uh we had lunch together at his house in Las Vegas and he he starts telling me about the complexities of disclosure do you understand kid like you know the implications and they're so vast impacts on organized religion and this and that and i i honestly i hadn't really thought of the complexities of disclosure and i was like yeah cool you know and he's talking about that and then he goes he goes uh yeah and they're walking among us and i said what and he goes what do you mean you know he goes i mean exactly that they're walking among us.

1:56:59Now, now. I think I took that and I put it in the back of my head because I was like, you know what? That's just crazy. Like, you got to be kidding me. You know, at the time, I don't know. I took it with a grain of salt.

1:57:13Maybe they are. I don't know. I mean, it would be pretty funny if they were because, you know, here we are looking out across the cosmos for any sign of intelligent life, you know, with the various NASA programs, you know, looking for water or whatever, oxygen or oxygen. atmosphere, you know, all these various planets. And it would be funny if they were like right here, you know, and maybe they are, you know, maybe they are. Yeah. Well, they, the Hal Puthoff always talks about the UFOs engaging in what he calls signature management, where they control what they sort of look like or appear to be an optical and radar and that sort of thing.

1:57:50And so maybe that's happening with the beings themselves. And so who knows? one thing that i've learned over the decades is suspend judgment man at this point anything's possible i don't know what's going on i would love to know what's going on i don't either and i and i want you know you guys to understand like i don't put something out into the public if i don't believe it's highly likely that it happened i'm not out there just trying to i i really don't i I care about integrity. I care about perception. You're the opposite of a grifter. A grifter doesn't start valeting cars and then makes the thing on the side because he's so passionate about it.

1:58:33What are you talking about? When there is no market for the thing in the early 2000s. Once I pay back my investors, I always put my films on free platforms. Like free. No, you just told me before you started rolling, your dream is to buy the phenomenon back. Yeah, I know. So how are you a grifter? You want to buy your own footage back because that feels more authentic. It's crazy. Yeah, anyway. So that's just ridiculous. No, but it is. These things, same with this thing in Peru, with these mummies, sometimes when the thing is staring you in the face, you think it's too good to be true, but maybe it's just, you know, Jim Semivan, who's very high up at the CIA, he said, he was like, most of this stuff is a personal experience.

1:59:14Yes. Says most of this stuff is just hidden in plain sight. And that's the conclusion that I've come to. you. Again, despite my... So funny, wouldn't it? Yeah. Right? It's just there. Yeah. I was at the airport a couple years ago and I was flying to Arizona for a conference or something and I get up to the gate and I was like, shit, I left my sunglasses in the car. I was like, I can't leave without my sunglasses. I was like, ah. I had to go back to the security. I got all the way out of the car. Ah, my sunglasses aren't there. I was like, crap, guess where they were? Where? On my face. They were right there.

1:59:51Yeah, sometimes it's just staring at you. Right there. But what is, did you probe Bigelow more and you say, what did you mean exactly by walking among us? Well, I did talk about the implications of disclosure, the complications of disclosure a little bit, but in terms of them walking among us, I wasn't ready for it. Honestly, wasn't. I was like, you know, who's this guy? I don't know, man. I couldn't dismiss it entirely just because of his position. He's probably invested more money in research with NIDS and OSAP and ATIP and all the various different people that he's worked with. Um, so I couldn't like, I didn't categorically dismiss it, but I kind of put it, I compartmentalize it and put it at the back of my head.

2:00:32And, but as time went by and I learned more about the phenomenon, I started thinking, shit, man, maybe he's right. Maybe they are right here, you know, walking among us. Wouldn't that be, wouldn't that be funny? You know, it's like, you know it's right under our noses there it is in plain sight and that seems to make more sense to me because a lot of people go you know and i get people go oh well you're just you know you're concluding you know it's extraterrestrial i was like no actually i didn't say that and i've never said that i really don't know what they are well with the guy who's uh transporting this being in this you know in the military uh cargo driver or whatever he goes i'll show you the email i want to see that email yeah sorry go ahead but he says uh he says it was you know it was told to him like there was somebody was questioning him what'd you see right he says i don't know what i saw you know it was like a burnt human being or something because he was trying to be coy as if he didn't see anything the guy goes it was super natural they focused on me with this other military guy He looked me right in the eyes and asked what I had seen.

2:01:44I said, I think it was a burnt man or something. He said, I'll miss you, say, no, you didn't see this. I don't know if he thought I was trying to deceive him, you know, like he knows, but he just doesn't want to talk about it. it was then that he stated that what i had witnessed was a particular thing

2:02:14yeah super natural super natural yeah i was very funny in the edit room because i i edit my own movies and that line just really stuck with me and i really wanted to just i really wanted it to to hit with the audience and so i i had i did all the uh subtitles in the film and i did it at my pacing because i'm a slow reader and i always frustrates me when i'm watching a film with subtitles when they come on too fast i'm like no you're going too fast slow down so i tried to like do one line whenever i could two lines most primarily one line and when it came to super because he goes this is military x talking about with the general meeting that he the general after he'd driven this creature from various places, Humanitas, ultimately Campinas.

2:02:59And he's like, he goes, no, no, that's not what you saw. What you saw was super natural. And so I put super and then a beat later, natural, as he said it on the text. Super natural. And then the other guy that I worked with, Boris, he changed it to have them both come on at the same time. And I went, no, no, no, no, no, Boris, that was intentional. I want that word because it's memorable, right? Yes. It's a cool, it's a moment in the movie. Super natural. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sounds like a shampoo commercial or something. Right, yeah, exactly. Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's sort of remarkable. And we don't know, you know, what these beings are.

2:03:37And, you know, even on the, I keep going back to these Peruvian mummies, but they had these like osmium and cadmium implants like on their heads. And, you know, I was just, I was playing around. I was asking chat GPT, you know, what these things might be adaptive for. And it's like, maybe they could create this local electromagnetic field, which would define how the beings are perceived or like modulate, you know. In other words, affect the environment around them. Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy. Who knows? I remember. What's his name? I'll think of it in a second. He was a NASA employee. He analyzed photographs.

2:04:17mackabee was it something mackabee bruce mackabee yeah bruce mackabee fbi ufos and the fbi or something yeah but he primarily did photographic analysis and he said to me years ago because i was like why are all the pictures blurry like ah you know and people criticize that all the time and he's like if they're not blurry and they have a defined clear edge this is 20 plus years ago he goes that's when you should be suspicious because there's some kind of weird field around the propulsion, we feel, that causes a slight distortion. And so you'll always get slightly fuzzy edges and all that stuff.

2:04:55I was like, wow. Yep. Wow, that's interesting, you know? And I was coming from a guy, PhD, like, you know. You have these lensing effects from the gravitational warp bubble. It was explained really well in Age of Disclosure, which I thought, you know, I mean. Red shifts or blue shifts. Yeah, and, you know, tip my hat to Dan Farah and Lou Elizondo, that was an exquisite accomplishment. Everyone can criticize how a film's put together, but trust me, as a filmmaker myself, I think that's going to help move the needle. I was very impressed. You know, people like Rubio and James Clapper and all coming forward and putting their necks out.

2:05:32So I'm excited about the times. And I feel like Moment of Contact, New Revelations of Alien Encounters, I don't know, the timing seems to be perfect because like Dan Farah's film, Age of Disclosure with Lou Elizondo is kind of everything that our film isn't and our film is everything their film isn't, right? So you make these extraordinary claims, you know, and then we're providing an extraordinary case. Yes, yeah, yeah. Because this is an example. One's top down and one's bottom's up. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah, do you. So I think that it's a really good thing, the timing and the pressure that I felt to get, because I didn't know when Age of Disclosure was going to come out.

2:06:09I'd heard it, kept hearing it was delayed for whatever reasons. And so the fact that it came out and then like, you know, six weeks later, we're dropping this one. I think the timing is going to be perfect. I think the stars are starting to align and I think that we can really get some traction in terms of like, and I think, you know, regardless of what you think about the current administration, I think if ever there was a time for full disclosure, I think it's more likely to happen with him than anybody else. Yeah, no, I agree. He's more likely to do something out of left field. Rip the bandaid off.

2:06:38Yeah, because Biden administration, I was so disappointed. Like, Rush came out during the Biden administration. It's like, you're not even going to address it? Well, the Biden administration, the problem with the Biden administration. OK, right now, maybe, you know, you could argue that Trump has too much agency or something with Biden. He wasn't. It was a headless administration. It was literally the whole thing was just a bureaucracy because you have you have a guy who's had dementia. Yeah. Who. And so then you're like, who's actually running? Oh, is it Jake Sullivan? Maybe his chief of staff.

2:07:12And then like, what's he up to? We didn't elect him. Like, what's the deal? So the most dismissive... Nothing's going to get done in that context. I felt it was the most dismissive administration in history on the phenomenon. On everything. Yeah. On everything. If you believe that America is headed in the right direction, then that was the right admin. This, you got a lot of volatility maybe, but it's like some sort of Hail Mary where you might get some movement or something. I just feel like it's going to happen in this administration more than any other. I really do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we're going to be doing things.

2:07:43Well, you have all these truth and transparency initiatives. I mean, one interesting thread is like Tulsi and Clapper kind of hate each other. I don't know if you know this. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Tulsi's a current DNI and like they're going after Clapper because - She seems pretty amazing. I love Tulsi. Yeah, she seems like amazing. She seems - I'm a fan. I think she's great. I think she's an honest, earnest actor. I think she's very brave. And yeah, I pray for her. It takes unconventional to get this stuff done. It does. Yeah. So, but she doesn't like Clapper because she says that Clapper was involved in Russiagate and this whole kind of, you know, planting stuff on Trump's calling him a Russian asset or whatever.

2:08:25So I guess what I would say to the current DNI is like, okay, like, do you want like Clapper or any of these guys eating your lunch on this very important issue? Or do you want to get in front of the issue? Good idea. Why would you want these guys to get credit when you can get the credit? You can get the credit, exactly. I mean, honestly, you would go down. Hey, look, I interviewed Senator Harry Reid. Yeah. And love the guy, hate him, whatever. He spearheaded something that was incredible, right? Yeah, yeah. And he stood up for Lou Elizondo, and I'm very grateful for that. But I asked him this question, and I recently unearthed it because I didn't put it in the phenomenon.

2:09:01And I said, like, what would you tell, whatever president it was, what would you tell the president of the United States about this topic. And he just goes, don't be afraid. Don't be afraid to take it on head on. Like, don't be afraid to admit that this stuff is real. Like, I think that's really important because everyone that I've interviewed, including the governor, including senators and members of Congress, it was the best thing to their career. They thought it was going to be the opposite effect. Right. But in actuality, and I even interviewed the former governor of New Mexico, who was a Democrat, Richardson.

2:09:34And he goes, you know, quite honestly, James, one of the few things that I ever did in my political career was looking into the UFO phenomenon, particularly the Roswell crash. He goes, you wouldn't believe the level of support I had from both parties. No, it's, it's, you look at Luna. It's one of the only bipartisan things. You look at Luna, Burchett, Burleson, like all these guys. Yeah. Are, it's become their like number one issue and they are going on podcast tours. They're talking about it constantly. Yeah. And they're all pumped. Yeah. Democrats and Republicans working together is so beautiful to see.

2:10:09Thank God they're working for the people. Yeah. But it's clearly good for their career. It's not bad for their career. That's exactly right. That's exactly right. Yeah. No, they're getting notoriety and people want the truth. Yeah, they do. And they should get it. Yeah. Like, I don't care, man. If it's a little scary, whatever. Yeah. Don't hide. Don't treat us like children. Don't hide the truth. Like, it's so, like you, you know so much and I know what I know, whatever. You know more than me. Well, not really. But, you know, what I know, I know, right? Because I went out, you know. But we, regardless of it, I think that every man, woman, and child has a right to know what the bigger picture is.

2:10:48Stop treating us like children. like it frustrates me to no end when you see like statements made you know it's started to be less so these days statements are so clearly like clash with reality like the crash test dummies in Roswell if you've looked in a modicum of research into the Roswell case you'd be like you'd laugh that right out of the room right yeah all these bluish dummies it's like and that happened like way later and then project mogul like project mogul is like later and they're same balloons but they're stringed together to make a bigger balloon like if you look at all the facts that's just it's like a slap in the face anybody who knows anything about it you know it's like and it's just i've had it like could you just please can we just have some transparency on this like it's one of the reasons why i'm working so hard like you know i'm pushing now harder than ever.

2:11:45Like I've cranked out since 2020, I put out the phenomenon, then I put out moment of contact, then I put out the program. Now I put out a new version, moment of contact, which covering all the congressional hearings really quickly you saw. And I'm doing something else that I'll be cranking that out in under a year because I feel like now is not the time to let up as much as I want to go spend more time with my family. And I do believe me, it's very painful, like to be away for my son and I'm missing so many things, but I feel like my, my whole career is kind of culminated to this moment right now.

2:12:17And I feel like we all as a community need to work together, need to be kinder to one each other, need to respect one each other, particularly with those that we disagree with. I really mean that. Like, cause we're stronger together. Yeah. Speak, speak, speaking of people who did not hold back on the truth. Uh, Paula 14 astronaut Edgar Mitchell, you met him as well, right? Yes, I did. And he came back and he was just from his moon excursions. And he was just completely adamant that alien life is real. I think he was in touch with various components of the government, maybe kind of legacy crash retrieval programs himself.

2:12:57Yes. He had that memo at his house. Yeah. Tell me about this memo. Well, it's the... Oh, you're talking about the Wilson Davis memo. Yeah, you know all about that. Yeah, I covered that one. Yeah, which is strange that he even had that memo, which is documenting Eric Davis in the parking lot talking to Admiral Thomas J. Wilson, who's head of J-2 Joint Chiefs, should be in charge of all military technology in the government at the time. And he's still around. In the late 90s. He's still around. You know, there were some people that wanted to subpoena him into a SCIF. Yeah. And he goes, and I talked to the people that subpoenaed him.

2:13:28Yeah. And they said, he goes, he goes, sure, I'll come into the SCIF, but I'm going to tell you the same thing I'm telling you right here that I'm going to tell you in the SCIF. so if you want to waste my time and yours let's go that's crazy that funny so in that document you have him but he said he would deny it yeah he's like if this ever comes out i'll deny deny deny yeah but let me tell you something interesting about edgar edgar mitchell and i was really close i mean i was i would call him all the time for advice and he participated i was interviewing him in my 20s i went to his house and in the middle of the interview and i was also friends with Buzz Aldrin's sister, Faye Ann Potter.

2:14:05Very close. I used to go to her house. I used to look at all the behind-the-scenes photographs and the moon landings and all the stuff. And she would tell... She said that the NASA authorities said that they were all given some kind of pill that they would die if anything happened. And also, like... Wait, wait. They would be given a pill? They gave a pill, like, where they had to kill themselves. If they missed the Earth... Sorry, if they missed the moon and they shot off into the space... Whoa. They were gonna... They would have something... They could die. Yeah, they could... In other words, they would have to have a slow death.

2:14:31They could kill... That's what she told me. fan bought her. She showed me all these pictures and that if Neil Armstrong came out and anything happened to him, Buzz was not supposed to play the hero. He was supposed to leave his ass on the moon and get back, meet up with, was it Collins? Michael J. Collins. Michael J. Collins, yeah. And so she told me that, she also told me that he had some UFO encounter on the way to the moon. Oh. I know. And one of my biggest regrets was, well, I have a lot of them, but You told that story on the last podcast. Yeah, it was that Faye Ann Potter never, I never got her on camera talking about her brother.

2:15:09But you chased Buzz Aldrin down. I did chase Buzz Aldrin. And you said, I want to interview you about UFOs. And then he goes, what would my testimony do? When I was watching Joe Rogan talk about, and I respect his opinion, that's totally fine, but I was personally friends with the number of people that landed on the moon. And I got great detail. And could I have been deceived? Sure, I could have been. But I think about, like, when Joe's like, yeah, look at the three of them sitting right after they landed on the moon, I was thinking, well, that's the look on their faces of people that maybe they had a UFO encounter on the way to the moon like Faye Ann Potter had.

2:15:39Yeah, that's the third choice. And they had to shut up about it. That's the third option. Yeah. Because you have, you know, Beatrice Villareal? No. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You interviewed her not too long ago. Yeah. She's amazing. She spotted thousands, 10 ,000 plus transients every year in the Palmar Observatory, which is the most prominent observatory. And this was between 1949 and 1957. These things aren't sun streaks. They're not, you know, asteroids, comets, meteors. Obviously, they're not satellites because they're pre-Sputnik in 1957. And they look like mirror-like light-reflecting objects, which are what all the CIA documents describe UFOs as in the late 40s and early 50s.

2:16:22And they're in geosynchronous orbit. and so you you yeah and so you have to and they and they sort of pop up yeah and so you wonder when you leave you know the the the van allen belt you know when you leave the protective magnetosphere of the earth do you just encounter tons and tons of ufos and if you look at blue gill triple prime which was the first time we cut a hole in the magnetosphere of the earth with the you know uh we were trying to see if we could puncture the van allen belt guess what came out UFO material. And Harold Malmgren, this presidential advisor... I'm so glad you got to him.

2:16:58Isn't that wild? And he said he was holding the pieces, the pieces of the UFO. It was an accidental shoot-down. He reached for some stuff sitting on his desk. These are things that have come down. But debris or images? Debris. Wow. No, he said handling them. Wow, that's amazing. So are we just surrounded by UFOs? And maybe that's the secret. Maybe the, you know, the Neil Armstrong cryptic speech about, you know, the layers concealing the truth. There are great ideas undiscovered. Breakthroughs available to those who can remove one of truth's protective layers. are in fact the idea that once you you get past the van allen belt you actually encounter just a ufo and then you have okay another one very well could be the case and all i can tell you is i was good friends with edgar mitchell i went to his house i sat down with him in the middle of a ufo interview i was like i i i'm sorry to ask this of you i know you get asked this all the time but what was it like to go to the moon i closed my eyes and i listened to every every detail but if that guy was lying.

2:18:13He was a damn good liar. Like just me in the room with him and the sound guy or audio guy, you know, I'd have to dismiss him. I'd have to dismiss fan Potter. I'd have to say like, I'm open to it though. So here, no, here, here's where I land. Sorry. Yeah. I didn't mean to interrupt you, but no, you didn't interrupt me at all. I'm just answering. I'm just kind of responding to how, where you're at is like, I think the presentation of the first Apollo mission was clearly manicured and sanitized. Can I tell you something about that? Yeah. So I talked to Edgar Mischel, a lot of this stuff was coming out in the 90s.

2:18:48Yeah. And they were questioning the moon landing stuff. And I was like, yo, what do you think about all this like imagery and da, da, da? Yeah. He goes, James, it wouldn't surprise me. He goes, we had Hasselblad cameras with no viewfinders, gardening gloves on. Yeah. And like the whole world was watching. He goes, it wouldn't surprise me if they recreated some imagery that they could fall back on. just in case for sure the biggest most expensive endeavor in the history of mankind yes and like and he goes that wouldn't surprise me but he goes i walked on the moon i swear to god yeah yeah and like if we had one person and maybe we do but i don't know of anyone i don't know how many people were involved in putting a man on the moon but i'm i'm assuming it was in the tens of thousands if not more and not one person from high level at well walking on the moon what way has anybody that you know no no no but what oh involved in the program the apollo program how many a few hundred thousand a few hundred thousand yeah so has anyone from that few hundred thousand come forward and said it didn't happen yes but but yeah yeah yeah oh they yeah yeah i didn't know that yes but no no apollo astronauts but some people within the nasa some people and yeah in fact there's this guy who rogan talked about on the show where he like did this whole review and he Okay.

2:19:59You know, um, Oh, I, I, I saw that. It's working with NASA. Danny, Danny, Danny. And, and you had the Danny Jones, you know, but, but Bart Cybrell is, he's not associated with the program itself, but there are, there are people who were, and there's the Gus Grisham thing. Right. He died the next day and put a lemon on the thing. There's some weird facts and you could, or, you know, if you think that the UFO program is involves like so many people, like there's an argument that could be made that the only thing that would need to be faked would be like mission control. And if you could fake mission control, you know, like all the parts suppliers and all the people like doing kind of the ancillary kind of peripheral, you have, you know, like the the spokes of the wheel, so to speak in the operation.

2:20:40They could easily be lied to. But, yeah, I still shake out. I do. You know, I think we attempted. And then, like, you know, I did. There's to me, I following the evidence, something about the presentation of the whole thing clearly sanitized. Yeah. And I think the video is weird. The two. light sources that you know the there's some anomalies the flag yeah the you know this is just like there's a there's a lot there's you know no dust on the lunar lander i talked to a guy who's a scientist that actually coincidentally worked on that cheesy tv show i did ben uh is the guy and i was asking him about the moon landing stuff and he's like well you know and he's told geeked out scientists like he's like ah you know we could see the the laser we put a laser on some of the things that we left on the surface of the moon yeah the reflectors yeah reflectors and we have stuff up there and you can see them you can put a you can put up the reflector with the with the rover yeah but so something went to the moon according to this guy ben for sure something well we put rovers to them up to the moon no question no no question about that yeah no question yeah yeah yeah no anyway you know i again going back to the ufo phenomenon every time i say something's impossible therefore you know it can't be therefore it isn't i've been proven wrong yeah yeah i have to open, I have to be like, from what I know, I believe we went to the moon.

2:21:58Could I be wrong? I could be wrong. And I'm not going to sit there and say, I'm, you know, I know what I'm talking about because I really don't. Well, maybe the more interesting middle path would be their UFOs along the way to the moon and it's surrounded or something. And you have John Podesta, who is Clinton's chief of staff and, you know, who I interviewed. Oh, really? Interesting. I interviewed him. Yeah. What was that like? It was great. Cause he talked about, you know, they, so, uh, Lawrence Spellman Rockefeller, who put together the briefing document for dignitaries and high-level politicians and all that stuff, I think it was like a global thing, he apparently put significant pressure on the Clinton administration to look into UFOs and to the point where he said, if you don't do it, I'm going to publicize the fact that you won't do it.

2:22:45I'm going to put it on the cover of every magazine across the country, you know, blah, blah, blah. Apparently. Whoa. Threaten him a little bit. And so Podesta said, all right, well, the Clinton administration said, all right, pick a case that we should look into. And they picked Roswell. Because Roswell, obviously, if it happened, right? And so, and then according to Podesta, Clinton was not happy with the answers they were getting. They were getting the runaround. The President of the United States was getting the runaround. Yeah, no, that's right. And then Podesta basically entered a, you know, multi-decade long personal search for this whole thing.

2:23:16and and cool that he spoke out at one of the uh national press club events i think that leslie kane was involved with bet way back back back when maybe i yeah oh maybe i believe it well they're they're emails that have since been deleted between him and tom de long about ufos and these are this came out over wikileaks but you know i think this this exists in the form of screenshots or maybe the way back machine or something and it's him uh meeting with a guy named Bob Fish, who I think might have worked at Aerospace Corporation and El Segundo across from SpaceX, this sort of mysterious federally funded research and development center think tank.

2:23:53And they're talking about fast walkers. And they're talking about things in space. Fast walkers. And to this day, you cannot use the Freedom of Information Act on fast walkers. John Greenwald tried to do that. He's like the UFO FOIA guy and was rejected. and um and the defense support program the dsp is the air force's outermost defense of like uh like 80 000 miles up yeah it's uh yeah i think uh a little less than that i think but yeah 80 000 feet i'm so sorry i meant to say 80 000 feet because isn't that space that's where space starts okay but i think um i think it's i think it's like 35 000 kilometers and up is geosynchronous orbit i think that's where they're detecting these fast walkers and that's where they're detecting these fast walkers and um yeah interesting right and so and so you have the malmgren thing where you puncture the van allen radiation belt and that ufo material comes out you have a tic-tac you have the you have it's uh just material that he held is all we know lawrence preston geist who ran the atomic energy commission albuquerque branch did they scoop it out of the ocean they did scoop it out of the ocean yeah and uh general uh general starbird um He was there, flew back to headquarters at like 4 a.m.

2:25:05that night. And William Ogle, who was overseeing the whole thing for Los Alamos, special projects division, writes about it. And all of this is like public. It's really insane. And you have this kind of public fight between you have, on the one hand, Jeffrey Cruikshank, who's like a nuclear expert UFO researcher in Australia. And then D. Dean Johnson and Merrick von Rennenkamp. They say it's the booster, but he's sure that it can't be the booster. It has to be some sort of anomalous UFO material. But you have video of something coming out. And then you have this other video where it looks like there's a white triangle superimposing the UFO coming out of the nuclear blast plume.

2:25:45Wow. It's crazy. It's crazy. And that's where the debate gets a little above my head as far as, you know, the Merrick and D. Dean Johnson versus the Cruikshank. I don't know if that, but we need more eyes on that. It's an important thing. When you interviewed Malgrim and I was watching the interview, I was like, I'm so glad you got to him. I was thinking to myself, and this is just me speculating, whatever. I was thinking like about that launch of the Atlas rocket at Vandenberg circa 1964 with the dummy warhead on it. right no wonder if it's true what malgrim says right they detonated that up into was it subspace or yeah it was a yeah high altitude nuclear little subspace yeah right yeah so if that's the case no wonder why they were shooting at the dummy warhead according to jacobs right the footage that he captured if i if one of my comrades was shot down by one of these silly like missile launch with a nuclear you know what i mean like i'd probably shoot it out of the sky Which is exactly what they did.

2:26:53I was like, wow, that makes sense. No wonder why they shot it out of the sky. Yes. It took some of their people down. Yes. And then you have this. Disabling nukes, shooting that out of the sky. That's pretty phenomenal. Yeah, it's really phenomenal. And Lou Elizondo said he saw that footage. Yeah, I know. He says he saw that footage and he says he knows where it is. And I'm like, Lou, get that thing out. We saw the video. that's crazy because that's what i was going to ask you he said he was like i think lou has seen the video so you've seen the video yeah so you know this is a real thing yeah oh my god is it is the video do you still have the video or i don't have it was it was in pentagon with all my other files when when the pentagon said they deleted everything of course we know they really didn't because really after they oh yeah oh yeah oh my god where everything is and then and then And when I talked to a buddy of mine, apparently somebody went in and they cleaned everything out.

2:27:50But what they don't realize is that there's backups in a whole lot of places at that. Oh, OK. The problem is, if I say it right now, they'll go and mysteriously, a bunch of people's computers will wind up disappearing tomorrow. So I'm just going to wait until the right time. And, you know, that stuff is alive and well. We need to provide people like Lou and Grosh immunity so they can give us all those details that we need. That needs to happen. We need to figure that out. Yeah. Just give it like if the presidential executive order say everything, you know, and let's let's reverse it. You have to say everything, you know, or you're in trouble.

2:28:26Everything, you know, that doesn't compromise some like specific vehicle you're working on that's going to confer a tactical advantage to Russia or China. All the science, let it out and flip it and say, if you don't say everything, you know, you're going to get in trouble. Let's do that. I mean, you know, look, we've got nothing to lose, everything to gain. Obviously, there are certain aspects of national security. I understand that they don't want to get in the hands of the wrong people. I get it. You know, if the accounts would be believed that Russia is obviously trying to figure this out.

2:28:55But it's like nuclear trade secrets. We don't let out the trade secrets, but nuclear science is taught at universities across the United States. This should be treated the exact same way. I totally agree. I totally agree. And like, you know, like I said earlier in the show, if you don't believe Lou, if you don't believe Grush, you don't believe Hal, you don't believe Eric Davis or any of these other alleged whistleblowers, let's give him immunity and let's put him on the stand. Well, that's Eric Davis in your recent moment of contact. He's asking for that. He says, literally, give me blanket immunity and I will say everything I know.

2:29:27Yep. He'll testify tomorrow in an open, under oath. Under oath. To a bipartisan group of lawmakers, openly for the whole world to see. And he says he has all this data on crash retrievals, alien bodies. Criticize them all you want. He says, I swear on my family's life that this is the truth. He said, on my children's life. On my children's life. Where's the proof? We have alien spaceships in our possession. We have bodies. Where and why can't I get the specifics to verify those claims? If the president of the United States issued an executive order that absolves me of all of my TSSCI NDAs, NDAs are non-disclosure agreements.

2:30:10Those are the agreements we have to sign for every compartment in our SCI clearances. so if the president waives or absolves my obligation to those NDAs and I get subpoenaed by Congress, somebody on Capitol Hill, some committee either in the Senate or the House or the both to reveal everything I know that I learned from my investigations both unclassified and classified into the legacy UAP, crash retrieval and hardware reverse engineering and NHI programs, I would do so. If I could be waived from that or absolved in some fashion by presidential order, and if Congress subpoenas me, yes, I would go and tell them everything I know.

2:30:53This reality is very hard, very physical, very real. And this type of evidence, you can't come by in the open literature. It's not public, it's classified. And I can't discuss what it was, but I can tell you, yeah, it's a crash retrieval, there's a craft, and there's alien bodies. That's all I can say about it. You swear on your life that you saw those pictures? Oh, I swear on my life and everybody's, my children's life, so... Yeah, I'm absolutely telling you the truth. I saw the evidence, and it's stark. Just wild. So, yes, that needs... Thank you for remembering that. That's a great line. Absolutely.

2:31:32I swear on my children. Who's going to say that? Who would say that? You're either a sick person... You're a psychopath? Or you're telling the truth. Yeah. And speaking of, you know, the idea of - Speaking of psychopaths. No, I'm kidding. Speaking of psychopaths, yeah. No, speaking of your mentioning of Bob Jacobs' Vandenberg case in 64, where you have this dummy nuclear warhead getting shot out of the sky. Yes. This is where it gets really trippy because either they are defending against some sort of incursion in their airspace. Yeah. Or they're actually provoking some of this occurring. So this is really strange.

2:32:12But Malmgren on his deathbed told Pippa, his daughter, that he saw an interview from one of the surviving beings from Roswell. Taped? What's that? A taped interview? A taped interview. Okay, okay. So he saw, sorry. Yeah, yeah, not live. Abundance of Clare. No, no, a taped interview. So Malmgren on his deathbed. Yes. Hold his daughter Pippa. Who's alive and a friend of mine. That he watched. A tape. A taped interview with a captured alien. With a captured alien. And guess what? Guess what the alien said? The alien gave them the idea to do Bluegill Triple Prime and have this, you know, specialized X-ray system that would not only be used as missile defense, but be used to take out UFO material out of the sky.

2:33:03to be reverse engineered. So it's, isn't that... Like a deal? Like what? Like giving him information as to how to retrieve the material. So you get into this weird thing where like... It's better than you say that on camera. I know. Well, there's so much... But why would his daughter make that up? No, why would she make it up? That doesn't make any sense. Well, it's all these things and there was kind of a takedown of the, you know, there's all these people criticizing Malmgren afterwards. They said that they said, well, yeah, well, I can also, I mean, when they're dead. Sure. I can also crush all their argument.

2:33:39They literally, you know, this is, you know, I don't want to be too tribalistic. Like I do think all of this stuff has to be thought about probabilistically. And like, if there are good points, please make them against this guy. There's no, there are no sacred cows. He's making an extraordinary claim, but this guy was an elite statesman who knew people, you know, at the top of the, of the chain, like literally, you know, new new nixon personally he was lbj um jfk nixon and ford you know presidential advisor and he's not he's not an anybody he was he was a little bit junior in the in the jfk administration and was more you know in touch with shriver um but like yeah was not was not a nobody uh you know talks about stories with the you know russian foreign minister dobrin his mentor was richard Bissell, who founded Area 51 and was the deputy director of the CIA, the number two at the entire CIA, we have diaries of his that say meeting with Bissell all over his diary, his journal.

2:34:42So he definitely knew Bissell. If he had gotten his Q clearance through the CIA, there's no way to use the Freedom of Information Act against it. Is that the highest level clearance, Q? Yes. Well, I think there may possibly, you know, UAP Gribb talks about different designations within queue clearance like a sap like um i think there's this like special foreign intelligence doesn't so the cia works with the doe and there's a counter intel division actually of uh uh the cia that like works with the department of energy and i think there are different queue clearances you can have because do d sorry department of energy because i was told i think it was chris mellon was telling me this that they hide things because anything nuclear would be national security yeah And that's under the Department of Energy?

2:35:28If you look at this. So you could hide these saps and woosaps under the Department of Energy? Is that? Yeah. But if you look at the special definition of nuclear material, 1954 Atomic Energy Act, it's anything emitting any sort of radiation, alpha, beta, gamma, radiation, whatever. Upon retrieval of that thing, that is restricted data. So it's born secret. Automatically secret. Automatically secret. So if you're an aerospace contractor, you don't need some sort of official clearance designation. you know you just automatic you're automatically that is that a secret or that umbrella yeah so so so that you have this this you know this blog came out trying to debunk malmgren but if he got a skill clearance through the cia they'd have no idea uh that you know they you can't use a freedom of information against that this was at the time where you know not official covers this idea of being a knock for the cia was like rampant like a ton of these guys and he was at a federal funded Research and Development Center called the IDA, the Institute for Defense Analysis, which has helped with every single missile defense system that the U.S.

2:36:37has built since then, since Bluegill Triple Prime. And he said in a 2024 interview before he interviewed with me that his work at the IDA was actually a cover for what he was doing for the National Security Council in the White House. So you have all these arguments that, oh, he's just at the IDA, who's like some junior guy. Like, no, he's already talked about this. And his mentor, by the way, was extremely high up at the CIA. This is what you're really good at. You're really good at putting these complex pieces of the puzzle together. It's like, oh, this is like this. That makes sense. And this is over here.

2:37:05It's like, duh. Well, it's important. Well, you're totally important. Are you kidding me? And I love the deep dives that you do. Just like when I put the maps up for Virginia, this witness was here. This witness turns out to be there. It's like, oh my gosh, it all lines up. You have a full picture. You have a full picture. just like what you're doing on the inside, like you're creating that full picture, which is mandatory for what you do. Like when I'm in the field, putting the pieces of the puzzle together, when we met, it made perfectly good sense because we knew for decades that it went initially alive to regional, right?

2:37:38Then it was humanitas. Now we have to get to humanitas. We're working on that now. Like, you know what I mean? You're putting the piece and it's all painting the picture, right? Like it's incredible. Just like what you're doing. yeah you're putting all the pieces of puzzles together where are the different it's incredible and i i'm always impressed when i watch how you do that like i'm doing it in my little way and you're doing you know we're all doing yeah no it's really cool to watch that was like there was a couple of interview deep dive interviews that you did that i was just like holy smokes you know it was very impressive with hal or was it hal um uh eric davis oh yeah yeah Yeah, that whole thing.

2:38:19Just the deep dives and the stuff that you do is very impressive to watch. Well, I'm excited. It's fun to watch all this stuff accelerate. We're in this together. Yes. We support each other. Yes. I remind people out there that we're stronger together. Be kind, particularly those you disagree with. It's okay that we disagree. That's fine. Yes. Nothing wrong with that. Yes. And, you know, I'm not out here screaming E.T. from the hilltops. I'm not. I'm curious. I want to know. desperately and it's what's behind it all it's easy to it's easier and lazier to impugn somebody's motives and say that they're a bad actor than to actually tackle the substance or give them a platform so they can they can cough up the goods yeah exactly why not yeah yeah exactly yes so i was going to criticize you and i'm not gonna you know uh i'm not gonna you know continue like people give these breadcrumbs i think about like david cross for instance you know he comes forward it's like, all right, well, you know what?

2:39:19You know, extraordinary claims, if you want to say, you know, give us the extraordinary evidence, but why not create that platform for David Grosh to build, to do that? He's refrained, he's restrained, he's scared for his safety, his family's safety, like he could get locked up. I mean, those are real concerns that these people have. Yeah. You think he's going to fall on his face? Okay. Give him the one-time clearance, let him go back into a skiff. That's exactly right. Like, or put him out to testify in a row. Like why wouldn't we do that? Yeah. you know so yeah anyway i yeah have you okay yes sir you got i got more for you because you got you've seen so much history so have you ever seen a saucer and a hanger shit i wish are you kidding me come on because of all people if i was on the inside i'd say i'd say james i can either you've done your work i wish have you ever been taken into a skiff yes you have yes have you ever seen anything interesting in a skiff yes yes what did you see i i can't talk about that because they asked me not to but i said if that goes out that's not gonna look good for you guys that's that flies in the face of all the testimony that i've ever heard so not as good as things you've seen in the open source yeah it was something really funny too because i i just put out the program and i met with a number of government insiders that are intel insiders excuse me that describe the exact computer, the computer that has access to all the good, you know what I mean?

2:40:46UFO files and stuff like that. And I was sitting there looking at it in the skiff and I'm thinking, if I can have just a few minutes with that computer, you know what I mean? No, it was really crazy. It was kind of a pinch yourself moment when I was in there with John Klauski, the new head of Arrow, which I liked him actually. You thought he was cool? I did. Way cooler than Sean Kirkpatrick, that's for sure. Yeah, yeah. Sean Kirkpatrick, man, that guy. Maybe that guy was read in or something. I don't know. That guy was, I don't trust that guy at all. I don't either. John Koskowski was a really nice guy.

2:41:18I looked him in the eyes. He seemed like a sincere, honest, nice guy. I did not get a bad vibe from him. But I was talking openly, because I was like, whatever, I have to lose. They know who I am. Like, I was talking about Rua. I was talking about, you know, Virginia. I was talking about Socorro, all these different cases. And I was like, you know, you know, you're going to draw the conclusion after all the other, you've exhausted every other possibility that we are dealing with a small percentage of probably non-human intelligence, right? I mean, you know that. Like, what's the plan to tell the public?

2:41:51And they were both very quiet. And John goes, he goes, you know, James, very soft, like non, I liked him. I got a good vibe from him. Mm-mm. And he's like, you know, James, I can't part my hair without the approval of the DOD. Whoa. And then he goes, and you can quote me on that. Okay, you're quoting him on that. But I was in the skiff, and it was just like in the movies. I went in, it was not too far from the Pentagon, and I had to get a 48-hour background check, which I passed, thank God. And then I had to go through all the security, take everything off, and go through all the, oh my gosh. that took forever and then they had these like glass tube like things i felt like it was a star track or something i think they went to the ceiling or they were pretty high up glass tubes and you walk up to it and one side opens and you step in and then that closes and another one opens and now you're in the inside and then i go to a locker they probably got my phone data and i took all my all my electronics and i put it in the locker and you know and then we went to a big door with a thing and you know just like you almost like a bank vault looking door and it opened up and it was a it was a it was yeah i thought it was going to be like a kind of a small room but it was a huge it was like the whole the whole office area was all one big skiff right and they walked me in there and i was just like oh my god this is crazy actually before before uh we went into the skiff and i just got through security i had this badge and i was like i really want a picture of this badge because I just want to, you know, I want to have it from memory.

2:43:31So I, okay, can I use the bathroom? You know, oh, sure. I went to the bathroom. Did you click? I took a picture of the badge, which I have because I don't know. It's not illegal, right? Take a picture of the badge. But anyway, they take me in down this hallway. There's a bunch of different cubicles and take me down this hallway. And then there was like a door on my right and a door on my left. The door on my right was closed. The door on the left was open. and there was like a, I don't know if it was a round table or if it was slightly like, like, what do you call, oblong or whatever. But anyway, there were four or five people, a couple of girls, a couple of guys in suits, nicely dressed, sitting there.

2:44:11And they said, wait right here. And like I said, I had a door on my right and I had this open door on my left and I couldn't help myself. I was just like, you know, kind of listening to the conversation. I just, what else was I supposed to do? I stopped where they told me to stop. And then they looked at me and they got up and they closed the door in my face. And then John Koskowski with another guy from OSI came and met with me and opened the door in that room. And then we went inside there and that's when we had, I don't know, maybe a 30 minute conversation. and in that conversation was he admitting that the ufo stuff is real they didn't say no they didn't say yes they were just sat there quietly okay yeah because i was like this case this case and this case and then they did say that the phenomenon was mandatory viewing for anyone who worked for arrow interesting well that's isn't that cool that's pretty awesome i was like wow yeah that was a nice little i'm telling you you're doing as much work they're they're learning from you.

2:45:15Hang on a second. Are you ready? There you go. Nice. I don't know. I love my little phenomenon t-shirt. I got to buy one. No, I'll give you some. The first time I went on Rogan, I, I, I was like, I'm not going to be the guy who gives him a t-shirt on camera. I'm going to do it afterwards. Yeah. I always do that too. You know what I mean? So I give him a t-shirt afterwards. On camera is basically like, here's an advertisement for me. Hey, you know, and, And I don't even own the phenomenon anymore. And none of the proceeds go to me, but I still want people to watch it because I'm very proud of that body of work and everyone that's in the credits deserves it.

2:45:50But I gave it to Joe Rogan and, you know, really appreciate. And also, you know, when we went to dinner with Joe Rogan the night before with Jacques Vallée and one other guy from his team, it was great, man. We drank really nice wine. It was five course. Oh, it was an incredible meal. Oh, my Lord. we had so much fun i was the wonderful joe's such a nice guy man like just really a nice guy yeah you know i don't care what anybody says about you meet him and you hang out with him this guy's cool super nice guy and super fulfilled and so humble and just kind and generous and anyway i got up from the meal and i went discreetly out like i was going to the bathroom and i paid for the meal oh and it wasn't cheap and uh and and came back and he you know after like 21 minutes he's like hey can you know can we get the bill here please and the guy goes that it's been taken care of and joe looks and i got the impression like nobody does that how did he react well he was shocked he was like you you know oh my god nobody you know it's like oh hey man that's the least i can do thank you know anyway um but i gave him the t-shirt yeah and two or three days later i could everyone's blowing me up joe rogan's wearing your t-shirt on his podcast and there he was rocking the phenomenon on his podcast how cool is that it's so cool you know what i mean he just did the same with the ours merch last week and it was just so it was so it's so nice of him it's so cool he has helped so many people he's created so many careers he has so many i'll give you an example when i i got an uber ride uh with joe uh joe flew me in first class which is incredible then i had a driver pick me up and the driver he was like oh you're going on joe oh god i love that guy and i was like oh and he goes let me tell you man i was really down on my luck and i was just things weren't going well and I was just really struggling.

2:47:53And he goes, I was on to take Joe to someplace and I got the address wrong and I got him lost and I, you know, 15 minutes longer than it should have been. And I felt terrible. He was, you know, Joe Rogan's such an important guy and he's got all this stuff going on. And man, I felt terrible. And Joe's like, hey man, wait here. I'll be right back. I need to go to this one location. Come back. And Joe came back and he tipped him like$2 ,000. He gave him some huge tip and he goes, that saved my life. I was behind on my rent. I was like really struggling financially. He goes, Joe did that for me and I'm a random stranger.

2:48:27Like just screwed up his ride. And I heard. That's wild. Yeah. And I heard that from just about everybody that I encountered in the Austin area about how Joe would do a random act of kindness and generosity, help people. like no he is like he's like that he called me out of the blue and was like just super complimentary like like just so nice and and uh yeah he's so generous and um what else i mean there's that story of this miss pat this comedian she uh i think right when covid hit or whatever was struggling or whatever and she was like the only guy that called me was joe rogan you know and like Oh, really?

2:49:09Yeah. He really, he really cares. He does care. And he really does sincerely care. And you hear all those stories behind the scenes of people that have had encounters with him and said nothing but nice things to say. Nothing but nice things to say. And I say the same thing. Like, I'm incredibly grateful for the exposure he's given all of us. All of us. I think he's more than anybody bent the timeline towards disclosure and even an interest in any of this. No question. And it allows like more, you know, I find, I think I'm sort of this niche like, you know, compared to. Another thing that I really love about Joe is that Joe has President Trump on.

2:49:46Joe has Bernie Sanders on. Yeah. Joe has opposing viewpoints. He's kind to everybody. Like he gives them a platform. Because I think like it's so easy nowadays, like, oh, you're on the left or you're on the right or you're in the middle or you're whatever. And, you know, you're the devil. We disagree. Therefore, you're the devil. And I just like, that bothers me because I'm friends with all, you're cool and you're a nice person. We're good. You know what I mean? And I'm friends with people that are both sides of the spectrum. We don't even care. We're high five. We're really close and tight. You know what I mean?

2:50:21Like I don't believe in the demonizing of someone just because they have a different viewpoint than you do. That's just so wrong. I know. It's so wrong. Yeah. We don't need to do that. The internet allows you to do that. You, you, um, compress somebody into this 2d thing. Yeah, you're there. Exactly. You're, you're like this avatar that like, you know, you're some evil, like, you know, and you're not actually just like this full dimensional, like you have a human being with like a family and like, yeah, it's like, we're all, it's all good. I know. But then none of those people would say those things to your face.

2:50:53Your face. You know, it's just, it's a keyboard warrior. That's a very good point. BS. It's like, yeah. That is a very good point. yeah when you meet him like i always say like like i've said some things very rarely and particularly not publicly but i said i i said this you know to this person's face i was like hey you know i really hurt because of x y and z and i really appreciate it if you you know because i feel like if i have an issue with anybody i'm gonna tell say to their face totally because that's the way it should be yes i'm not gonna sit there and like oh he said this no no he's like i got an issue let's hash it out i'm pissed off that's why and we all make mistakes yes i piss people off inadvertently you know like oh shit i'm so sorry they were offended or i said the wrong thing and like hey all you can do is go back and make an apology i'm really sorry hope you forgive me and nine times out of ten people like you know what that's cool we're good yeah it's all yeah totally yeah a hundred percent have okay have you ever been asked to bury a story

2:51:55sort of sort of okay what does that mean like sort of like uh i've had like this this meeting never happened okay uh we don't discuss any of the details that i just gave you and i feel like if i violated that trust i wouldn't get in the door with these people no i you know what i mean valuing relationships For sure. Yeah, yeah. No, I mean more like you were covering a thing independently. Somebody entered your life and said, you can't cover this. Okay. Kind of. Because it was an aspect of the story that I got from the inside that they didn't want that aspect out as part of the story that I was covering.

2:52:35And I made them the promise that I wouldn't. Was that for the program? No. Okay. No, earlier than that. Earlier than that? But earlier and later. Okay. I'm not trying to be. No, no, no. It's okay. They just asked me not to mention it. Okay. And I respect that. How did they find out? How did they find out that you were covering the thing? Oh, my work is public. Okay. Okay. So you were like, you were starting to surface. It was a follow-up on a previous thing that I'd reported on. And they were like, don't take that further. Don't mention that we showed you this and don't mention that we. Okay. You know.

2:53:13Okay. So I said I wouldn't. Damn. I know. Do you think that if people knew that thing, that would move the needle as far as overall disclosure? No. No, not really. Okay. I think the Holloman landing footage exists, and I've talked to a number of people. I didn't. When I first heard about it, I was like, come on landing contact please yeah like come on yeah you know uh but now i'm convinced the hullamand did happen and i think that would obviously move the needle particularly if why are you convinced well because i was investigating socorro and that happened in 64 april 24th 1964 and in the process i spent five years investigating that case on and off i met with ray stanford r.i.p uh who's the one of the lead investigators wrote the book Socorro saucer in a Pentagon pantry.

2:54:13And in the process of investigating, I was reading all the articles. I went to the house. I befriended his wife, Mary, daughter, son, Michael. I'm reading, I'm going through all the newspaper clippings. I'm going to the National Archives. I mean, I'm doing a deep dive into that case because my God, it's a very good case. And I came upon a couple of articles, coincidentally, haphazardly, you know, written by Corral Lorenzen of the UA a UFO bulletin, I think it was called. And she had talked about this landing at Holloman. She interviewed someone that was in an airplane that witnessed it and someone that was on the ground at the base that witnessed it, both military officials.

2:54:52And apparently she was a respected journalist. And I was like, hmm, this is interesting. Like, this is an original, you know, article. And I was looking at it like, hmm. And that led me to Bob, come on, the two guys that made the film. UFO's past, present, and future, Emenager and Alan Sandler, and Emenager in particular, and then of course that led me to Colonel William Coleman, who had that dramatic encounter with the UFO and B-55 over Alabama, but also he was later on part of Project Blue Book. He was a public spokesman for the Pentagon during the time the film was being made, and I started poking around and started, as a side investigation, I started to look into the landing case that they kind of put forth as a concept that may, something that might have happened already, maybe it would happen in the future, in their film, right?

2:55:43And then that led me to Emenegger, who talked with the guy, Paul Schartle, who was at the archive, processed the film of The Landing, talked about it in great detail. I interviewed Bob Emenegger, which I'm going to release for free. All my archives are coming up soon. It's been so busy. That's amazing. I digitized them all, and they're all digitized now. I just have to go through them and edit them, and I'm going to and I'm going to put them all out there for free for everybody. But anyway, and based on that, and then Alan Sandler was shown the footage by Paul Shartle. He's convinced that it was a real flying saucer.

2:56:17No question about it. Three came in over the base, two peeled away, one came down and landed. And he goes, James, just like in a sci-fi movie, there was like a seamless door that just opened and dropped. Alan Sandler happens to think that it was our technology in this, whenever it was shown to him in the 70s. I think he was showing it in 72, 73, but it was taken in the 60s, I believe, is what Paul Scharnel said. And he thinks it was our technology, our flying saucers that we had, and they dressed people up to look like aliens as a staged event. But he goes, it wasn't doctored. It was a real flying saucer that really flew and that really came down and landed over the base.

2:56:59And it was filmed on a tripod, which means they anticipated it coming because you don't have a tripod camera sitting on a tripod unless they're filming something else unrelated and then the event happened either that or they just saw it happening because i i asked those details and he said they were met with a bunch of uh military base commanders in uniform got into a jeep off they went discs just sat there on the ground and then the film footage ends he thinks it was staged he thinks it was a real disc real technology real flying saucer that really flew in the 60s and that it was, that's what he thinks.

2:57:31Why does he think that? I don't know. I guess it was hard for him to imagine that real aliens. I really don't know. Okay. But he said that they had... Egyptian headdresses. Big noses, slits from mouth. Yeah, kind of tall. Not short. So what was that? And some sort of device that they assumed would have been a communication device. Okay, but if he's saying that, is that like, were there makeup artists involved? Evidently there would have been, according to him. but eminator was like bullshit that was a real event it was an extraterrestrial paul shartle who had the footage who processed the footage in orton air force base absolutely to his death said that was a real event and then of course i'm talking to other people that have subsequently since then particularly he's come out with it eric davis said that uh either he was told about it president bush was either senior was either told about it or shown it.

2:58:26I can't remember. Do you know? I don't know. Eric Davis said that he talked to President Bush about it. I know there's some relation there, but I don't know. As head of the CIA, he was made aware of it accidentally, and that's how he became aware of it. But I don't know if he was shown it. Eric Davis would know. Mm. So fascinating. Well, we could go back and forth all day, man. I love talking to you, and you're such a treasure trove of deep knowledge when it comes to UFOs and inspiration for it. I don't really feel like that. I know what I know talking directly to witnesses around the world and that's it.

2:58:55But you have a much deeper understanding of so many of the complexities and intricacies from what you do. And I respect that, but it's great. We complement each other. I don't know. I don't know anything, man. Neither do I. I know less than I did when I, it's the more you know, the less you know. Totally. And the more questions you have. And the weirder it gets, you expect it to neatly collapse into, oh, it's like either all man-made, you know, anti-gravity vehicles plus MKUltra or whatever. Right. And then you go, or it's just these beings and they're like from this specific place and you're like, no.

2:59:29And it's like, I haven't gotten either of those. Like it just keeps getting weirder and weirder as I'm sure you've experienced. And so please, you know, don't put me in that position. Go out under the night sky in the remote desert and look up and just realize just how vast the known universe is. Yeah. And the possibilities of life. One of the things we covered in Out of the Blue very early on was like the equations of the possibilities of life. Yes. In the universe. And it's like a hundred percent, like it just comes out at a hundred. There was a, that book written by Amir Exel, probability one years ago, back in the nineties, you know, and it was like mathematically, we are not alone.

3:00:08Look at this. Yes. You know, come on. Yes. Could be all of you. And life is bizarre. Life is absurd and bizarre. Consciousness itself is weird. Yeah. What is happening? Nobody can, you know, has a great answer for that. And I think the framing of disclosure, it's both exciting because maybe we're on the precipice of this, you know, big reveal, but it's also kind of a misnomer because I think, you know, per the messages that maybe a lot of these beings seem to transmit, we're in more of a position ourselves to know the truth than we might realize. And I don't think the government has monopoly on an understanding of metaphysics.

3:00:46I do think they have asymmetric understanding of maybe some technology and they might have some more materials and might have some more footage and concrete evidence than civilians do. But the idea that they have some sort of like ontological understanding of the universe that like, you know, people can't achieve without them giving that info. I mean, great. Let's, let's get the info. Amazing. But it's also like a low agency thing. You know, it's like we can, we can do it ourselves too. And, and, And anyone can understand this stuff if they reach for it. So I don't know. Or understand it or understand more of it.

3:01:25You know, when you pull on one thread, you get like three more in its place. But, you know, I think we can ascend to much greater heights kind of intellectually than, you know, we give ourselves credit for. One little thing in the future. I'm kidding. You got some gummy bears, some James Fox gummy bears. I just got this little, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's really cool. Speaking of which, my swag. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. But I want to thank you for having me on. I want to thank you for all your support. I really appreciate it. Oh, man. I really mean that. No, it's an honor to get to know you and, yeah, really, you know, ride in your wake that you've created, you know, aerodynamically.

3:02:03I get to - Hey, we're all in this together. We all make our contribution. Absolutely. Well, go check out, what's the, it's Moment of Contact 2. New revelations of alien encounters. We did a complete, because we really felt like, I felt like, you know, processing, you got all the congressional hearings, right? And that, like, I think about mainstream, I think about skeptics. Fair enough, it's very healthy to be skeptical. But I think about trying to process, like, those allegations made under oath by Grosh and Lou and all the others. of Crash retrievals and live aliens and biologics, right? So I kind of like took the first 20 minutes, completely new, condensed those hearings, as you saw, condensed those hearings.

3:02:50And then, hey, you know what? As extraordinary as this sounds, it's not the first time. And I give really quick examples of various, you know, Magenta, we go to Italy, you know, Roswell, very quickly. I don't get bogged down in those old cases, but boom, boom, boom, you know, Kecksburg, Kingman. the landing at Bentwaters, just really good statements of crash, landing or crash on the ground. And then, but the best case, you know, and then we do a deep dive into Virginia with all the new testimony from two forensic pathologists, from the chief of police, new crash witness, plus the lead neurosurgeon at regional hospital.

3:03:27And none of these people are coming forward in this new cut. No one is coming forward anonymously. They're putting their names, their reputations, their faces out there for the whole world to see. Yeah, well, thank God they did. And thank God you went out there and got the footage and keep going back there. And yeah, it's just, it's an honor to speak with you. Go watch this movie because I think it's going to be, I think it's going to be earth shattering, especially watching Italo Venturelli, this neurosurgeon, just his revelation just feels so important. This, this, this testimony of being face to face with an alien being for that long.

3:04:04I'm told it's the first time in history. Like, you know, we never had with Roswell, right? We didn't have it with the Gentry or any of these other cases. No. Where we have. We don't have video of these. Yes. Yeah. I mean, obviously it would be great to get the ultimate prize, right? I mean. No, no, no. But you have video of him. Yes. And he's still alive now. He's still alive. He's like, I asked him, would you put your hand in a Bible? Would you testify? You know, would you take a lot? Yes. All the above. Yes. and now the whole entire doctor medical community in the region are all supporting him getting behind him and i'm told there are other doctors that are considering when the time is right to come forward so we're at the beginning of the beginning i'm i'm quite honestly very excited about it and we'll see how it's received yeah well let's hope your dream becomes a reality and somebody slips a thumb drive that's real in your pocket or maybe it goes down in a in a in a way that's more manageable for you.

3:04:59I don't know. I'm trying. Even if it gets out there, and by the way, I'm going to make this abundantly clear. Unless I have to, if somebody gives me the footage, I'm giving it away for free. I'm not going to charge a dime for it. I love that. If I have to pay for it, I'll have to recoup my investment to pay those people back, and then I'll put it out there for free. But if I get it, I'll give it to the world for free. I swear on my, unless I have to pay for it, reimburse the investors, then I'll reimburse it, and then I'll put it out there for free. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Go to jamesfox.com. It's behind a paywall.

3:05:31No, that won't happen. That's awesome. No, I think that's the right attitude along with like, you know, wanting other people to follow up on your research. Yes! And you're the paradigmatic example of that because you're having Amar, who's a good friend of mine and kind of - Such a cool guy. Yeah, he's the best. And he's kind of a correspondent for the show, but he's kind of, I think he's going to start his own thing, I hope. and he's going to go get some amazing footage with you. And so you've been so welcoming to me and him as far as, you know, come with me. And that's not normal in the space.

3:06:04There are a lot of people, you know, they call, I want to get the quote unquote scoop. And like, I'll even see like, I'll cover a thing and then somebody will try to like front run the thing. It's like, and I'm always like, great, good. You cover it too. We'll both cover it. That's like whatever. Yeah, yeah. Power in numbers. Yeah, yeah. It's like, you know, so I appreciate you. And this was amazing, man. And I'm excited to do this and hopefully do this many more times. Thank you, brother. All right. Thank you, Gene. Bye. All right.

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3:07:16We cut a lot of things that didn't meet our standards and we're really, really proud of each of these items. Everything is pretty limited, so there's no endless restocks. Once it's gone, it's entirely gone. If you missed anything from our original drops and you want to go out and represent, now's the time to go grab something. So go to AmericanAlchemyMerch.com to check it all out.

3:07:50Thank you.