“I Spent 4 Minutes With A Living Alien!” -Top Neurosurgeon [Exclusive Interview]

30:25And we found one farmhand in 2013. I have it on video and I didn't use it in the film for whatever reason. But he said, yeah, yeah, my boss was here and he heard a boom, like a boom sound. And he said it on camera. Oh yeah, I know, it was known. That was 2013, so that would have been, what, 13, 14, 17 years after the incident. But I knocked on the small house and they were new. I knocked on any house that was within a certain proximity. And we got one farmhand to say, yeah, you'd heard that there was a big impact. Boom. Really early in the morning. How can we find this material that might exist?

31:02Can you get your hands on this material? She did say to me about four or five years ago that a lot of her father's archives were in the hands of his ex, or his widow, I guess it would have been, and that she was very guarded with some of that material. She did get a lot. I don't know exactly what she had, but I can ask. Do you think that she has the UFO material, the aluminum foil-like material? No, not aluminum foil, no. Let me explain. There's documentary footage filmed by him. The aluminum sheet, meaning those pieces of the craft, were taken out of my hand by the military at the moment of the crash, okay?

31:42That's one thing. Another thing is this happened later. The evidence she has, from the soil, from people hearing things, was recorded by Klaudia Hkovo eight or nine months later, proving all of that. And what I described ended up connecting everything, like putting the pieces together. Everything the girls talked about, everything people in the city were saying, because it all started there. The first contact, the first moment, happened right there. Who is this guy with the Super 8 camera that went with you to take soil samples and to look at the burnt tree? Who is that exactly? That's Claudio Kovo.

32:24Well, look, I know that Claudio Eich collected the material and sent it to a lab. Now, if I told you exactly where, I'd be lying. Because, look, for me, at the time, it was simply the crash of an object. I never had much awareness of this kind of thing, because I was never really into it. I was always very skeptical about this type of phenomenon, you know? I didn't really pay attention to it. In fact, a well-known Brazilian researcher, who is a co-producer of Moment of Contact, named Marco Leão, told me something years later, now around 2019, something like that, in an informal conversation with friends.

33:13He said to me, Carlos, do you realize you are one of the few human beings who actually held a piece of a non-terrestrial object? In your hand? And I said, huh? You're right, that's true. I never thought about it that way. I never, ever, gained anything from this. And this is interesting, because just to continue the story I was telling, to put everything in order, everything that happened so you can understand the whole picture. When it came out in the media, everyone started mocking me. Oh, the alien guy. You saw the little alien. People laughed at me. They lied. Because when someone is an outsider, they don't have to believe.

34:03But when it comes from family, cousins, relatives, that hurts. I was harassed a lot. I was ridiculed. Did you ever get a look at the inside of the craft? the inside of the craft, because, you know, if part of the craft crashed on the ground and then the rest of it, you know, kept going, did you ever see the inside or any of the components? No, no. What I saw, the only thing you could see, was half of the craft blown open. You could see there was something inside, okay? Just a silhouette, kind of a shadow. Because my eyes were like this, you know? That strong burning sensation. It was burning, stinging.

34:46If I said, oh, I saw everything clearly inside, that would be a lie. I couldn't see it. If I said, oh, I saw the instruments inside, no, I didn't. I wasn't worried about instruments. To me, it was a blimp. I was worried about whether there were people hurt on the ground. When you smell sulfur now or since then, does it exactly match that smell or is it a unique, specific smell? You say ammonia and sulfur.

35:19Yes, yes. The smell, the smell was… Because I was expecting the smell of fuel. And it was a different smell. I don't know what that smell was. If I said, oh, it was from the creature, that would be a lie. I don't know. I just know the smell at the site. I don't know if it was the craft's fuel or something else. But it smelled like ammonia mixed with rotten eggs. You mix those two and put them right under your nose. Yeah, it's not a good smell. It was awful. What was the exact color of the craft? On the outside it was metallic. And on the inside it looked kind of bluish. An undefined color. I can't tell you, oh, it was like this, nice and clear, you could see everything.

36:04No, that'd be a lie. I couldn't really see inside because I was at a distance of maybe… From where I arrived, from the rear part to where it was leaning against the tree, must have been about 100 to 150 meters away. So there was no clarity, especially with that smell, you know. There was too much going on. I couldn't say, oh, I'm going to look inside. No, I couldn't. I just couldn't see it. How big do you think the craft was? The object was about the size of a minibus. Like a high school bus. roughly the same size as a school bus. Do you have any idea as to whether there was radiation or anomalous electromagnetic activity involved?

36:51At the time, no. I wasn't thinking that. At that moment, it wasn't that to me. At that moment to me, it was a blimp that was in trouble. So, radiation, contamination, that never crossed my mind. If I said it did, I'd be lying. It doesn't cross your mind because you don't expect something like that. It's different from seeing something and thinking, I'm seeing a UFO, it's going to crash, oh, radiation. When you look at an object and think, it's a blimp, there are people inside, it's going to crash, and those people will need help. That's all you think about. You don't think about radiation. I didn't think about radiation at any moment.

37:36No, I didn't think about it. Did it feel like time was moving slower in any way? Or did it feel like, you know, you literally just thought this was this kind of blimp or dirigible and it had, you know, crashed? No, time felt normal. There was nothing like lapses in time or anything like that. No, everything unfolded normally. Like, regular time. For me, it was normal. I never felt any temporal distortion. And this was the Brazilian army, clearly? Like, you could make out that it was definitely the army? Yes, it was near the ESA, okay? The army sergeant school. In Brazil, ESA stands for Escola de Sargentos das Armas.

38:23I didn't know that, okay? In fact, the ones who told me that were James and people from the ufology community. That this small road I mentioned leads directly to the Eza. So it would be, let's say, a shortcut they used. Because to get to Tres Corazones using the official roads, you have to take a long way around. You go all the way around like this. And this road went like this. Cut straight through. And I didn't know that. They told me, did you know this road leads straight to the Eza? And I said, really? Well, I had no idea. I have a really interesting point that I want to make. I don't know exactly what AG1 is doing in my body, but I do know that my microtubules are online.

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41:18You put them on and you're done. For a limited time, Chubbies is giving our listeners 20 % off with code JESSE at chubbiesshorts.com. That is 20 % off your order with code JESSE. Give your thighs the VIP treatment they deserve with Chubbies. Support our show, use our code, and tell them we sent you. Thank you so much to Chubbies for sponsoring today's episode. it i have a really interesting point that i want to make quickly because i just talked to allegedly the mechanic who worked on the trucks that this was the mechanic for the trucks as a military base and he said that he had to make all these extensive repairs on the suspension at that time because he was like they must have been flying down pothole dirt roads because they just did a lot of damage and he had to make all these repairs wow i thought that was a really interesting connection well i also think it's an interesting connection that the you know carlos is saying that the material is lightweight but maybe it's you know a lot of weight you know if you're putting a school bus on your truck you know uh you know that might have the suspension might might break in certain places i think it was more for them when they were racing to get to the sight that they were flying down the dirt roads because they got there within minutes so i was all it's speculation right but it's interesting that we had that connection and we got to him through the nurse that we met the night we brought all the doctors together she was the one that was telling us mar was there i know italo's telling the truth i know and we were like how do you know and she was shaking she goes because i was there wow and then we went and met with her at her house and that her partner was the mechanic for Asset Trucks.

43:04And he's the one that told us all these reparations had to be made, repairs had to be made, because he was assuming that they were speeding down pothole dirt roads. Just another little piece of the puzzle, an interesting aspect of it. Oh, very interesting. And did you hear independently anything about the material being sort of aluminum foil-like, or, you know, if you crumple it up, it goes back into its original position? No, the only thing I heard were people, firsthand witnesses I personally interviewed that said it was cylindrical shaped like a school bus, like a cigar, had no control services, that kind of thing.

43:42And another interesting aspect of it is Dr. Armando, who did the autopsy on the deceased military officer. He has two friends, farmers, that saw exactly what he saw before it crashed. Just another little piece that, yeah, the puzzle. There's so many aspects of this story. Well, you also have farmers documented in Moment of Contact. You also have a guy who looked outside his window looking at it. And then you show the entire flight path. And then I think what I love, to be honest, about Carlos De Sosa's testimony specifically, is you have this very dramatic part of Moment of Contact where he's showing you the site, the crash site.

44:23and to me if he were a liar he would have said here it is but he gets there and he goes it wasn't here in fact the landscape has changed and he goes i'm looking for this white house i swear it's a white house it's a white house and he took you for two hours yeah i thought this was the i was so disappointed at the time i was like oh my god this is going horribly how could this guy not remember where the spot was and and and then when he sees the actual spot not only do you see different topology and vegetation a different color coloration of the ground locally where he says the spot is but he starts crying and you it's this very moving part of the movie where you say a key a key and you break down and uh i don't know i don't think you can fake that so yeah it's pretty i mean you have to ask yourself you know why witnesses come forward he's not selling a book he's not selling a documentary we chased him down we found him marco layout found him chased him down and he finally agreed to meet with me and then he ultimately agrees screw it let's go back to the since 1996 he hadn't been there since 1996 so it'd been 26 years at the time.

45:38Wow. You know, and I was like, man, if this guy's lying, we don't need any more Brad Pitts or Leonardo DiCaprio. Exactly. And this remarkable encounter you had at this sort of food stand afterwards with this guy who's wearing a suit, two guys wearing a suits and an unmarked car. he walks out a lot of people in the u.s like to talk about this men in black phenomenon which are you could say they're the first responders when it comes to sort of alien experiences did they seem like they were human and they were coming from intelligence agencies or army affiliated or did they almost seem paranormal or alien themselves to me they looked normal i mean And the only thing that caught my attention, because I'm a short guy, I'm not tall, you know, not big or muscular, was that they were very tall, okay?

46:38They were about the height of someone like James or other tall, strong people, very military-looking, you know? Big, muscular, ripped. I'd look up at them and like, ah, okay, yes, sir. They were strong, okay? But if someone says, oh, they had weird eyes or something, that's a lie, a lie. They were normal people, okay? Normal human beings, just strong and very well-dressed. Only one of them spoke. The other stood next to him, just watching, wearing sunglasses, silent. He didn't say a word. He finished speaking. They turned around and left, got into the car and drove away. That was when I went to look at the license plate and there wasn't one.

47:15That's when all of this happened. What's so remarkable to me is that they know all these personal details about you, your family, your address, hours after you see this event. And we're talking about 1996. So this is really before the Internet, before large databases in the U.S., let alone a small town in Brazil. So have you speculated about that and thought about how did he get that information? Let's correct this story. It wasn't hours later. It was minutes later. It was minutes. 10, 15 minutes. 10, 15, 20 minutes at most. So how does he know who you are? And this question you're asking me is the same question I've been asking myself for 30 years.

48:02That same question I've asked myself for 30 years. How? Because that was one of the things that terrified me the most. So much so that when I went back to São Paulo and gave this interview to Kualdeir Covo, this ufologist, nine months later, I deeply regretted it. Because my life turned into hell. At the time, in Brazil, all phones were landlines. Cell phones didn't really exist. They looked like war radios, you know? Can you read me? Over! That kind of thing. The technology was very basic, just starting out. So 99.99 % of the population had landline phones. They had the rotary dials for you to dial the numbers to make a call.

48:45And I started to notice that every time I picked up the phone to talk, there was someone on the other end listening. Because when what Claudia released aired on Globo, when it leaked, you could tell. I even changed phone numbers and it didn't make a difference. That really started to irritate me. And my company, inspections started showing up. Audits, tax checks, things like that. You know when it feels like someone is looking for something wrong, where there isn't anything? In other words, looking for the smallest excuse to shut you down. But those inspections lasted days. Normally they'd last hours, but these went on for days.

49:26And in front of my company, unmarked cars would show up. Cars without identification, fake plates, or no plates at all. They'd just sit there, watching, watching. When you walked toward them, they'd start the car and leave. They never said anything. And no, I was never threatened with death later. That's a lie. Nobody ever threatened me with death. But you could feel the pressure. Like they were saying, if you keep talking, things are going to get ugly. Something serious is going to happen to you. So you were kind of harassed and intimidated. Do you think about these men in black characters 10 to 15 minutes after is so remarkable to me.

50:06I take back what I said. It's not only unlikely, it's impossible that they can know that information in that amount of time. Do you ever think that maybe they were not human themselves? Or they were somehow protecting or in coordination with the beings that came down in the ship and crashed? I believe I know just as much as you do, okay? It was just as surprising to me as it is to you. And as I've already said before, I asked myself this question thousands of times. How did they get that information so quickly? I came up with a hypothesis that it might have been through my car's license plate.

50:44At the time, radios were very common, right? And through radio communication, they may have gathered some information and started passing it along to those people. That could be it. Now listen, I am not saying that's what happened. I am just raising a hypothesis. Because that was also one of the things that scared me the most at the time. Because the crash itself, to me, had been just a normal crash of an object. I saw something that, at that moment, I thought was a government experiment, something I wasn't supposed to see. But when they arrived so quickly, that's when I thought, my God, what is this?

51:23That was truly frightening. And the most interesting part is that, after all that process with Globe Wind everything being threatened and all that, my wife turned to me and said, look, shut up, don't talk about this anymore, disappear. So I disappeared. I changed my phone number, moved houses, later I returned to the same place where I live today. But at the time I moved into my father's house. My father, who has since passed away, had moved to the beach. I moved into his house, you see, and basically erased my trail. And what's interesting is that the current researcher, One day I'm at home, calm and relaxed, when my phone rings.

52:10Excuse me, is this Mr. Carlos? And I thought, who wants to talk to him? Burned once, afraid of cold water. Who wants to talk to him? No, please don't hang up. My name is Marcus Leao, I'm a ufologist, and I'd like to talk to you about the Varginha case. The reason I accepted was that I was a professor of the Ufologist. after 26 years, actually 25 years, this first contact happened about a year or two earlier, was because a week earlier I had gone to a birthday party for one of my wife's cousins. And I don't know where they got it from. But they brought this story back up and started making fun of me.

52:54Some of them had been drinking a bit too much. And you know, drunk people have no filter. They started crossing the line. That made me really angry. I told him. I said, I'll prove it to you. I even cursed at him at the time, used a swear word. I said, I'll prove to you that I'm not a liar. I never lied. I never gained anything from this, and I won't lie now. One day, I'll prove it to you. I'll have the proof. And then, sure enough, Marcus called me the following week. So, I killed two birds with one stone. I thought, okay, this is the moment to speak up. Do you know James? I didn't even know James existed.

53:36I had no idea who James was. Nothing. To be very honest, my life was fine just the way it was. So, I went to the house of a friend of Marcos, in a neighborhood called Morumbi, in São Paulo. Inside a very small apartment, we recorded the interview. I told my story. He said, look, let's verify this. I said, yeah, that's fine. Then he said, wow, your account is exactly the same as the one you gave 25 years ago. Identical, not a single detail has changed. I said, guys, I'm just telling you what I saw. I don't need to lie. Alright, okay, thank you. When we finished recording, he tried to give me some money.

54:19I told him, no, thank you, I don't want it. No, I really don't want it. I'm not here for money. I don't need it. Seriously, I don't need it. I said, do me a favor. Just one thing. Take that money and donate it to a charity that needs it. Because I don't need to live off this. You have my word. So I told him, go donate it. He said, but... I said, donate it. He said, all right. So after that, I turned my back. About a year later, he told me that there was a filmmaker, a well-known American documentary filmmaker, who was coming to Brazil and wanted to meet me. He said his name was James Fox. I asked, who is James Fox?

55:10He said, in the United States, he's very well known. You don't know him? I said, sorry man, but I honestly have no idea. Then he, James, asked me if I would agree to tell my story in the documentary. I said, all right. And then, but I made it clear, I don't want to earn anything. I never wanted to make money from this story. I never made a single cent from it. Nothing. Because I believe the truth has to be told, spoken as truth. You shouldn't take advantage of others. It's absurd when people have a story and exploit it, charging appearance fees and things like that. I mean, sorry for the word, but that's bad character.

56:02People who take advantage of others in any situation. You have to be an honest, upright person with integrity. One of the things I admire most about James today, after getting to know him, and I even say he's like a brother to me, I have a special affection for him, is his posture, the kind of human being he is. He's an upright person, someone I truly admire as a human being. Because he's honest in what he says. He only seeks the truth. I've never seen him hide a lie. He's the kind of guy that if you're lying, he'll tell you straight to your face, look man, this story doesn't add up, this is a lie, he'll say it.

56:45What does your family think now? They were so skeptical, you know, just five, six years ago, they were making fun of you at this party. Now that you've been documented thoroughly by James Fox in two Moment of Contact movies, what do they say to you now? What's interesting is that my own brother, he's American. He's a U.S. citizen. He's married to an American woman, has American children, and has lived here for over 30 years. Okay? And when he found out, he said, Man, you never told me anything? I told him, This is my story, nobody needs to know. Because being humiliated, being called, Oh, you're the brother of the guy who saw the alien, did you see the little alien too?

57:33I didn't want that kind of ridicule for him, or for my family, so I kept it to myself. That's why at that moment, when I took James to the crash site, for me it was like, Imagine a dam bursting, a mix of emotions. All those years with everything trapped inside you, unable to talk about it, not telling anyone, not even family, always hiding. And you think, damn, am I going to have to humiliate myself all over again? Am I going to go through everything I went through back then? I didn't want that for my family, especially not my family. Because when you truly love someone, you don't want anything bad to happen to them.

58:18At all. That's why, with my older daughter and my younger daughter, I always hid many things from them, so they wouldn't suffer bullying at school. Kids making fun of this kind of thing. Like I always say, hit me, hurt me, even kill me if you have to. But don't mess with the people I love. They're not to blame If I made some mistake, take it out on me, not on them Protect them How were you emotionally affected after the original experience And then the sort of men in black experience And then you're getting harassed You have to start to think in your head There's something, and then all of a sudden you get corroboration That these three, you know, girls see a being five, six days later in town, you make this connection that this might not be from here, it might be E.T., it might be a non-human entity.

59:20As soon as you start to make that connection, how does that impact you emotionally and as far as your worldview? After what happened, for me, when everything came together, when everything clicked, that's when I truly realized what had happened and what hadn't. It changed a lot inside me. Truly. Why? Because the idea that we are alone in the universe was never hard for me to accept. In billions, zillions of planets, for us to be the only ones with life would be like looking at your own belly button and saying I'm the only being that exists on planet Earth. In other words, that's impossible. Our universe is enormous.

1:00:07Advanced intelligences exist. For me, today the question is, no longer whether extraterrestrial life exists. That question is minimal. The real question is, who are they? And what are their intentions? That's the big question. What do you think? I have one contribution when you're ready. Go ahead. I firmly believe, okay, that… I don't want to go on too long, but I believe we are a biological experiment created by evolved entities. putting religions aside, everything aside. I don't want conflict with any religion because I believe in all religions and at the same time I believe in none. I believe in the essence of religions, not in church labels or institutions.

1:00:55Makes sense. His brother lived not far from where I am, I think in New York or New Jersey or something. And so I said, hey man, your door's open, I'd love to have you out there. You can come stay with me, put you up in my barn. you can watch the editing process marco layout was there and so he took us up on it and we invited him to stay with us for a couple of weeks which he did and we went hiking and went out to eat and had a lovely time we were working every day as well and in the edit room i was going through the interview with military x at the time military x wasn't disguised when he was looking at it and military x i asked military x some question and he's like he's like everything that happened that virginia started at mirely farm and he's he watched that and he had tears pouring down his face because he was just like this weight off his shoulders yeah and i got to witness that as he saw it like it was like i've been telling you you can look like i've been telling i'm not like it well it sounds like this has been a process of constant vindication over time because you see this thing You think it's some sort of, you know, aircraft or blimp.

1:02:02And then you have this weird foil, aluminum foil like material. Then you have this kind of very bizarre men in black experience where they seem to know all your personal details. Then you hear about the girls seeing the being in town. Then you have, you know, military X, you know, this witness, key witness involved in the transport of the being talking about how, you know, it all started around Maialini Farm, which is where you saw the crash. And then you have all of these tests being done on the local soil and on the, you know, the tree and stuff. And so data point after data point after data point continues to corroborate your initial experience.

1:02:43Has there been anything that's come out that has made you doubt the experience?

1:02:51No, nothing at all. Today, ever since everything clicked for me, I have no doubts, none, no doubts whatsoever. I'm absolutely certain it was an extraterrestrial object. I saw the crash. I witnessed it. And I say this, I swear it on a Bible. I swear it on anything you want. If I'm lying, I'll do whatever you want with whoever you want. I swear to it. And your testimony today, your testimony a few years ago with James, and your testimony, you know, at this point 30 years ago, pretty much the same every single time. Yes, because it's the truth. I can't invent something I didn't see. I'm telling what I saw.

1:03:42And that doesn't change. If you witness a fact today, that same fact will still be the same 100 years from now. And one of the things that caught my attention the most in all of this happened right after James' first documentary aired. Maybe later he can even confirm this. The crash site went 26 years without anyone touching it. Just as I saw the crash. James even commented that the vegetation grew differently. The tree was still there, burned, completely burned, just as it had been. And the vegetation in the burned area clearly showed that the soil was different. You know? And here's what's interesting.

1:04:33When the documentary came out, a person from Europe, a businessman, called me and said he wanted to meet me, and was curious to visit the site, and that he would pay me. I said the same thing as always. Look, I don't want to make any money. Take that money and donate it. If you want to go, I'll take you, no problem. I've got time. Just pay for my gas so I can get there. It's another state. You cover the hotel, those things. Just pay my food and gas, and that's it. I'll take you there and show you. When I got there with this man, we met up in Varginha, and he said, shall we go there? Let's go. Let me tell you, I was shocked.

1:05:21I sat down. I didn't know whether to cry, laugh, or panic. I even made a remark to James. James went there shortly after that. They had done land grading. Literally. There must have been around seven or eight meters of earth piled there before. It was almost completely flat. Yeah, James was there. They said, we're going to plant soybeans here. And they planted soybeans. What they spent to remove that amount of earth just to plant soybeans makes no sense. They would have to plant soy there for a thousand years just to make a profit. Now listen, for me, me personally, what I believe that happened, at the time of the crash, someone must have gone to them and said, get rid of all this.

1:06:20And they didn't. Like a typical Brazilian response, no, do it later, it's fine. That thing we call the Brazilian way, it's terrible. We always leave things for later, until the very last moment. That's one of our traits. In this case, I'm grateful for the little Brazilian way because maybe that means we can get more of a smoking gun that something happened. James, have you ever thought of bringing a Geiger counter looking for levels of radiation or metal detectors or, you know, you could do a gravitometer, anything like that? A couple months ago, I have a friend who's a quasi-professional with a metal detector.

1:07:02and we went out there for a day or two one we did in the evening it was so hot during the daytime and he he looked at me and he's like man this whole area has been all upturned like it had changed when we flew our drone over it when we were first meeting with him after 26 years out at the site you can clearly see from the air a visible difference in the soil like just from oh it's obvious so obvious and then it's changed since then they bulldozed it or something they've shifted stuff all around and my friend said dude i would need this is a job and after a couple of days he goes i would need probably several months out here we didn't have that time i think it's something that should be done and also another a comment by uh the forensic pathologist uh dr armando he said perhaps we could do some soil samples and bring soil samples we could take a close look because he thinks that anything left behind would have been macro particles but they could possibly do so i'd probably go out there with a geologist and find out where the best areas of runoff animal mounds ant mounds you know areas that where this debris would most likely end up after 30 years yeah and gather those samples and get them analyzed i think another good idea is like there's ground penetrating radar you know are the things that penetrate even more deeply than you know metal detector like you might want to speak to brandon fugal or you know people who are dealing with what they think of as kind of exotic underground objects and, you know, how they're, and honestly, I'll do that as soon as human, as soon as humanly possible, because we're, we're going to be amplifying this story.

1:08:38And so that the antibodies might come out. Carlos, this experience must have been so profound. And I imagine it's impacted you really, really deeply, have you ever gotten a hypnotic regression to recall vividly what might have happened? Yes, I did. I did it at the beach with a friend, a person we call Saga. He's, well, he says, at least he told me, that he's one of the specialists in Brazil who does regression hypnosis. And he showed me some things that left me kind of shocked.

1:09:24If I told you, oh, do you remember what you said? No, he showed me the video, okay? And that really shook me, what he showed me. What did you say?

1:09:40Well, according to what's recorded there, it says that I had a mental contact with the creature. I don't remember that. If I said I do, that would be a lie, okay? And if you ask, oh, do you remember it? No, that would be a lie. I only saw it in the recording he made, but I can't confirm it myself. I can't say, yes, I remember. I only talk about what I actually remember. In that hypnosis, he says I became very distressed, very worried. It even happened at the beach. We were there, relaxed, and he said, let's do the hypnosis, the regression. And he got scared. This saga guy got scared, so much so that he suggested, let's write a book.

1:10:15And I said, no, no, no, forget it. Erase this. Wipe it out. I don't want to know about this. I don't want to make money. I don't want anything from this. What was the nature of the mental connection, and was anything transmitted, was anything said between the being and yourself? According to what's recorded there, this part is erased for me. I don't remember it, okay? I'm only going to report what's on the recording. It says that I was desperate, trying to get closer, and the creature was speaking mentally, saying, calm down, everything is fine, go away, it's dangerous for you here, don't come closer, go away, stay calm, we're fine, stay calm, you can go.

1:10:59we just want to thank you for your concern. Thank you for worrying, but we're fine. Stay calm. We'll talk, but stay calm. Stay calm. We're fine. Be at ease. We're fine. And I said, please, I want to help. No, calm down. Calm down. That's what's recorded there. Do you remember this? No, I don't remember it. And don't worry, because I'll make this very clear to the audience. This is the more speculative part that you're not, you're admitting you're not sure of. And this is, it's a modality that a lot of memories when it comes to traumatic or very anomalous events get fractured. And this is a real modality that helps you retrieve real memories in many cases.

1:11:42So we're taking this maybe with more of a grain of salt than the rest of your testimony. But I do think it's important also, if we're trying to get a little deeper into what might have happened. You have to hold it loosely, but I do think you have to view it as data. So you mentioned that the beings said they wiped your memory. Is that true? They said that they didn't want you to remember what had happened? According to what was recorded there, they told me that I would never remember, that it would be very dangerous for me. They didn't want me to remember, and they would do everything to make sure I wouldn't.

1:12:24Is there anything else you said about the communication between you and the beings in that recording? No.

1:12:37No, what I remember is only that, okay? Then I started getting very agitated in the recording. I started crying, getting extremely agitated about everything. Suddenly, he himself stopped it and said, no, calm down. I mean, my heart was racing. I was, you know, really worked up. He said, calm down. Then he brought me back, ended it. The regression. The hypnosis. Right? He stopped it there. After that, he told me, this was one of the, these are Dr. Sagar's words, that this was one of the most impressive experiences he had ever seen in his life. And this hypnotist had no experience with people who've had alien visitations or abduction experiences or anything like that?

1:13:26I don't know. I really don't know how to tell you. I met him on the day of the first screening of James' film. We went to Sorocaba, which is a city in the state of São Paulo. It's called Sorocaba, where the documentary premiered. And that person was there, and that's where I met him. There was also another doctor there who wanted to do hypnosis with me. But I tried to schedule it with her, and she was always unavailable. busy, traveling. Then Saga came and said, come on, let me do it. I'm just as much a specialist as she is. I said, alright. And he did the regression with me. After that, I never wanted to do it again, and I don't want to.

1:14:05The experience was horrible, I felt very bad afterward, really bad. I don't want it, please. I kept saying, no, no, no, please, I don't want this. I felt terrible afterward. I can't explain the feeling it gave me. I interview many experiencers, some of whom retrieve more about their experiences through hypnotic regression. And they always say the same as you. They say, we can't say that part for sure is true. We know what we experienced in our waking reality. And then some of these other things might have happened as well. But it's interesting. The one common thing that they all say is their heart speeds up.

1:14:42In certain case, one of them went into a fibrillation because he was re-experiencing the beings. So it seems to be this traumatic thing that we repress and that, you know, often comes out. I guess, you know, kind of point blank, my question to you would be in your hardest of hearts, do you think what came out in that hypnotic regression is real and that maybe you did achieve some sort of mental contact with the beings. If you had to guess, and we're all giving you the grace to know that you're speculating here and that you're being very honest about the line between what you experienced in waking reality and what's coming out through this more speculative technique.

1:15:25I believe it because I saw the tape, the recording. If I hadn't seen it, I wouldn't believe it. Simple as that. If someone came to me today and said, Hey, do it again. I'd say, no, sorry, I won't. I refuse, because I felt really bad afterward. And from the recording, it's impressive. Looks like my chest was about to explode. You could see my chest moving like this. It was something anguishing. Seeing myself afterward, after I had calmed down and all that, watching that footage of myself was very impactful. I thought, wow, I could have had a massive heart attack right there. It was very, very intense.

1:16:04So I believe it because I saw the recording he made. He has it all recorded. But if you ask me, do you believe it consciously? No, I don't have that conscious memory. And what I don't have conscious awareness of, I don't fully believe. I'm very, how can I put it, like St. Thomas. I have to see it to believe it. I'm very grounded. I don't like make-believe or little stories like, oh, I saw this, I saw that. Just stories. I'm much more about reality. Did the event happen? It did. I report the event, period. I think honesty and sincerity come above everything else. Unfortunately, ufology worldwide, not just in Brazil, I mean worldwide, is often discredited.

1:17:02Why? Because people invent too many little stories, you know? And people just believe them. Many times when you start talking to these people, you realize the stories make no sense at all. They can't explain anything. They say they saw something, then later they didn't, and it becomes absurd. And that's why I'm very skeptical in that regard. Final question, Carlos. you are a geography teacher and you're an ultralight pilot. How has this experience changed, you know, your teaching of geography knowing that we are not possibly the only map with habitable universe? And then when you fly, do you ever wonder if you're going to encounter the UFOs again?

1:17:52First of all, as a teacher, which is something I truly love being, it's a profession I genuinely love teaching, sharing knowledge it's a unique experience and what happened well to this day my students never knew about this story only after James did some of them start to find out but about 90 % still don't know they can't connect the dots they can't link their teacher Carlos to that story right? and honestly that's a good thing As a person, I believe this difficulty exists all over the world. People are very religious, many believe deeply in religion, and religions often deny the existence of other forms of life, believing they are the only beings in the galaxy.

1:18:42So many times I hold back, I don't talk about it, I don't comment, to avoid arguments and controversy, because then parents complain to the school principal, Oh, he's talking about extraterrestrials, that doesn't exist, my priest said this, my pastor said that, and so on, so on. That's complicated. So, professionally, as a professional, I avoid that kind of topic. As a professional in the classroom, I'm Professor Carlos, a geography teacher. I'm there to explain geopolitics, geoeconomics, geophysics, in other words, to teach geography and give my best as a professional to my students. Now, as a pilot, of course, I hope that one day I might encounter something like that again.

1:19:32Sometimes I even think, if I saw an object like the Phoenix Lights in the United States, that triangle shape, and I were flying, I'd go toward it. That's a fact. But wouldn't you be afraid? No. I even joked about this with James once. I said, James, if you encountered a craft and they said, come with us, what would you do? He said, no, I have a young child. I laughed and said, oh no, I'd go without a problem. Because something really, I don't know, changed, you know, the world. I don't believe they're here with bad intentions. Because if they were, they would have taken over a long time ago. Just imagine, as a human being, that there are beings capable of crossing the universe with technology to travel across space.

1:20:26Do you really think we, as mere humans, would have any way to fight them? No. If they wanted to invade us, they would have done it long ago. So the only thing I can believe is that they're here to help us. And of course, we hope that's the case. That's it. There's nothing more to say. As a pilot, I'd love to meet them. As a teacher, I keep things separate. For children, teenagers, young people, adults. So things don't get confused. Professionally speaking, I've spent 23 years in the classroom, in schools. And I was also an entrepreneur for 25 years. So I can't mix things up. What I believe, what I know, what I saw, I don't have the right to impose that on anyone else.

1:21:27I don't have that right. No one does. You have free will to believe whatever you want for you to be free. If you believe, great. If you don't, that's fine too. I respect you as a human being, as a person, and I always will. Carlos, it's been an honor. I really appreciate your testimony. The level of descriptiveness and detail with which you recall an event that happened 30 years ago is absolutely remarkable. And I just find you to be a very kind of candid, honest person. I don't sense any sort of deception from you. And you seem like a very deep and spiritual person as well. And like you mentioned, Thomas, who wants to know, I can tell that you have that same streak in you and you're a Gnostic kind of meaning seeker.

1:22:23And I pray that you keep going on your path and that you get the truth that you want. I'm very grateful, truly. I only have thanks to give to you. To human beings like you, like James, whom I deeply respect. Doutorita, Lu, Doutor Armando. Serious people. People like Valkyria, Liliane, her other sister, all the girls. People who really lived through this. I'm only grateful, okay? Honest, good human beings like these who crossed my path. Are there any key details we missed here that are worth retelling? The only thing I would add is, I'd like an explanation for why for 26 years not a single straw was removed from that place.

1:23:13Then after 26 years, James' documentary comes out, and they go there and remove more than 30 meters of earth? I just want to know why. I don't understand that. If they have nothing to hide, why do that? That's all. Other than that, everything's fine. That's it. If you ever need anything, I make myself available at any time, really, if you need me, to anyone, anywhere in the world. The only thing I ask is, please cover my lodging and food. I'm still human. I eat, drink, sleep like anyone else. I'm always willing to go anywhere to report what I saw with the utmost sincerity. You deserve that and so much more.

1:23:56And yeah, it's funny. Renovations, 26 years later, doesn't make a lot of sense. But appreciate you being here, Carlos. It's been an absolute honor. And thank you for coming to Austin, Texas. And I hope we can be in touch. No, thank you. As they say, namaste. Namaste, too. Okay. It happened to me in the woods. I was hiking solo. New year, no phone, no gear. I was just trying to find myself. That's when I saw it. Something glowing, silent, descending through the trees. A UFO. And stepping out from it wasn't an alien or an android. It was me. But better. Same face. Same great hair. But something was different.

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1:25:36Get your khakis and get The Perfect Gene. We received an unexpected request for a meeting from the chief neurosurgeon at Hospital Regional. The doctor requested the team enter by the more inconspicuous back entry. No one knew why. When I asked them to take us where the alien was brought, this is Regional Hospital. So it went Regional Hospital, and then it went to Humanitas, Humanitas, Eza, Eza, Campinas, Campinas, America. Yeah.

1:26:14OK, if you're filming, you have to wear a mask, and James and I are going to wear this. OK. So let's talk about the context, right? Yes. Dr. Italo Venturelli, the head neurosurgeon at Hospital Regional, was on duty in the ICU when he had the most extraordinary encounter of his life. In this room, or which room? This room. Right here. Holy shit. The alien was alive in this bed right there. So say, when you approach the hospital, you say, is this the hospital where the ET was treated? And they're like, yes, you come inside. Big plaque out front. You walk into the reception. Oh, yeah, he's brought her on the back.

1:26:59Somebody's still working here that was there that night. I mean, it's... How do you hide the truth? Right out in the open. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, it seems like it's not even disputed at the administrative basic routine level, which is where you expect the bureaucracy to be told, hey, just keep your mouth shut. And in this case, they're all just like, yeah, this is where we treated the ET. And there's a plaque? What does the plaque say? I have to get the literal translation, but this is the path of ET. Came here to this hotel on January 20th, the United States. Came here to this hospital. I'm sorry, hospital, yeah, regional.

1:27:37Yeah, it's right out front. I got a photograph of it I can give to you. That is wild. I'd love to see the photograph. I'll send it to you. You can show it. So I'm here with, in my mind, maybe the most significant witness when it comes to seeing UFOs, ET beings, beings from what seemed to be another world in the entire world. and the reason I say that is because of your background, your pedigree, you're a neurosurgeon, people depend on you to operate on their brains, you manage a chain of three hospitals who cannot operate without you, and because you spent four to five minutes in your own estimation face-to-face with one of these entities.

1:28:30And so it is an absolute honor to be with you today. And I can't thank James Fox enough for getting you, Dr. Armando Carlos de Souza, all to the U.S. This is a dream come true for me. So thank you for being here. Thank you for inviting me. I'm a very simple person, raised in a very modest manner. I had the opportunity to occasionally help those hospitals. I had excellent teachers, including some that were American, like Dr. Huckton, and many wonderful neurosurgeons, both from my country and my hometown. Dr. Atacir, Dr. Domingos, Marcus Vinicius, and it's a pleasure to be here with you. But I'm just a simple person who had the privilege, by chance, of seeing a very different kind of being.

1:29:28So, just for everybody in the audience's sake, I would like to know your name and your background, both educational background and professional background. My name is Italo Denelli Venturelli. I was born in São Paulo. I studied in São Paulo at the Pozo Alegre School. I did my residency in São Paulo, and I've been in Minas Gerais since 1983 in the city of Varginha. The place where I arrived already had a very well-established neurosurgery service run by Dr. Atacirio and Dr. Domingos Toledo and I was part of it. They already had a whole service set up which allowed me to develop many skills I already possessed and they taught me a lot there.

1:30:14So, lots of surgeries. It's a hospital... Before January 1996, did you have any interest in aliens, ETs, UFOs, anything like that? No, I'm a neurosurgeon, and we work for the public health system. So we spend most of our time in the operating room. So I really didn't have any such interest. I did travel to Egypt on an excursion through a course called Bra Vida in São Paulo. But I had no previous knowledge. Only later did I try to understand what happened at that moment.

1:30:56And you managed three hospitals, is that correct? In the past, yes, but no longer. I was the financial director of some and the technical director of others. The people watching should also be aware you just came off of a 48-hour shift, so it makes me even more grateful that you're here. I want to get into the core details so what happened January 1996 if you could walk me through it in as much detail as possible just play by play, moment by moment I had operated on a child whose name was Eric 1996 he had Crouzons syndrome and a craniosthenosis Cruisons is a surgery that has to be done on the skull and the face.

1:31:46We did the cranial part. I operated on that child and went to my office nearby. I went on foot. I went to my office to write prescriptions, prepare reports, and worried about Eric. The whole time I didn't lose sight of him. When I returned, after the hospital closed, I went in through the corner where cars couldn't enter, and a reporter from a very large company in Brazil called Heide Globo asked me, Did you operate on the ET? I don't know what she's talking about. There was no social media at the time. I thought they were talking about the boy, because he was different. I didn't even finish the sentence.

1:32:37I just said, that's no way to speak of someone. So I moved on. I went into the hospital. When I entered the hospital, we had a younger colleague called Marcus Vinicius, a younger neurosurgeon, who every time we had surgery to perform, would ask for certain instructions, as he was very young. Where to open, draw, draw here, don't go away, sit down, have a rest. But that day he called me to an adjacent room and said, look what I did. He showed me a large camera with what seemed to be a small calculator right next to it. I looked and didn't understand what it was. For a moment it looked like another case of Crouzon syndrome.

1:33:26It was a child. It looked like one. But I asked him, what is this? He said, it's here. He came over, there was a screen, a cover, right? I looked, got closer and it was there. There was a being there, totally different from a human being. He wasn't an adult, he was like a seven-year-old child. Covered. Here the hand inside, here the hand outside. Very calm, at ease. The skull looked like a drop. The eyes also looked like two drops. Lilac, not red. White skin, no foul smell. At first glance it looked like Casper, the friendly ghost, you know, from the cartoon.

1:34:27looked like him. But I looked, and the being looked at me very calmly, very peacefully. He looked out the window. He looked back at me, very calm. And I even asked my colleague, and he said, what do you think? And we approach it as doctors. If there's bleeding, pain, agitation, if breathing is normal, if there's need for emergency care. So I said, OK. Once again, what do you think? I looked again. It's not bleeding, it's not in pain, it's breathing normally, no problem, everything's fine. The being looked at me, as I always say, it looked at me with a very beautiful look. Not a judgmental look, not a look of fear.

1:35:29It had the look of someone who understands very well what is going on. But it was a different person, a different being. It wasn't human at all. It wasn't a case of human anomalies, it was a different being. I've been dealing with humans for 46 years, but back then, about 30 years ago, we knew how to tell when it was or wasn't a human. It looked at me with a very beautiful gaze that left a lasting impression. I usually say that from then on it feels like you turn into a different person. And at a certain moment, having a conversation with James and the boys, they asked me what I thought. I said it was a very beautiful look, it moved me.

1:36:14I said, it looked like an angel looking at us, very much so, that kind of look. Very understanding, very calm, very tranquil. Like it's saying, I've known you for a long time, don't worry. I know you took care of me, but everything's fine, I'm back to normal.

1:36:38This colleague had the video, he showed it to several people. Many people watched this video at his house, on his computer. And then James and the others were there, looking for the tape. Where's the tape? Where's the tape? I mean, if you saw the tape, it's wonderful. It's short, but it's a different kind of being. It's a being that changes the history of humanity. Because it's the first time we're seeing a different kind of being there, live. But I don't have that tape. I told James that if I had that tape, I wouldn't need to be on duty until today. I wouldn't need to be working as much as I do.

1:37:20And on and on about the tape. And then I said, I don't have the tape. He's already dead, but I saw it. As soon as I said that I'd seen it,

1:37:32James started breathing down my neck, everyone pressing me, Describe it, describe it. and I described it a little differently from what people saw. Some people said they saw a green being, others a brown being, red eyes, protuberances. I saw a calmer being. I didn't see all that. I don't know if they had already cleaned him up at the hospital. I don't know the answer. That's just what I think. And very calm. And then we managed to get into the hospital for a bit and I apologized to the hospital management. I should have informed them that we had entered the hospital where it was. After that, we didn't go in anymore.

1:38:15And from then on, James and everyone else started pulling up the story, unraveling the thread, gathering various testimonies from people who also saw it. And the big problem is that when you talk about this, it's difficult for many people to believe you. Me too, if someone told me, I'd say, yeah, maybe. But I can assure you, and especially the younger generation who comes after us, that I did see it. I was there. I mean, there are more things than our Earth and this planet of ours, than these wonders of ours. There are even more wonders, you see. and what they ask me about is gaze. What I convey is that it was a very calm, very peaceful gaze, which I think we really need all over the world.

1:39:06So in January 1996, you operated on a child and then you were asked about that and so you didn't know about the ET being when you were asked about that and then you walked into the hospital and were you assigned to look at the being by Marcos Venesis, your colleague? Or how did you, did you just pass by the room? No, he happens to be my friend. I was on my way to the pediatric department. Did he want to show you this being specifically? He said, I want you to see this. That's right. That's right. Come see what I've done. Had you heard any sort of whispers around the hospital that this being was there?

1:39:54No, no, no. So this was the first time you just, you just walked in, you had no context and you just see this being. No, I only realized that the hospital was completely closed down, right? I went in because I had been the director there. Very well known. Wow. And so you see the being, what's your emotion like when you see what it looks like? How do you process what it looks like? How does that sort of sit with you immediately when you see, you know, this figure that presumably is like something you've never seen before? In the corridor, when he said, come see what I've done, whenever someone says that to us who have been doctors for years, we automatically think it's an emergency.

1:40:41And when I went and saw the tape and saw the being, there was a mixture of surprise and relief. because the being was alright. It wasn't a medical emergency. When we're called, it's to do a suture, to operate, to intubate. It was fine. And like I always say, when I'm asked, what did I think, I could examine carefully. It's conscious. It's not in pain. It's not bleeding. Breathing normally, it's not an emergency. you can think about it carefully. What did Marcos Venesis tell you about the being when he shows it to you? Did he give you any context? He said, I performed a procedure. From what I saw on the tape, there was a little basin like this, an amesis basin, and a needle holder.

1:41:37He probably gave stitches. It wasn't a big surgery, it was a small procedure. on the tape. Because when I looked at the being, there was none of that anymore. He was just lying there with a surgical drape. One hand in and the other out like this. Nothing here. And it's peaceful. The bed positioned upright, like we do for neurological patients. They don't lie down completely. Otherwise the patient might vomit. The patient stays more upright. and it's very very comfortable and it looked at me in such a beautiful way I always say that you asked me what impression I had to me he was okay he didn't need us and had a very beautiful gaze right?

1:42:29a look without judgment physical characteristics you've described this before but what exactly did this being look like? human, I mean humanoid, right? He had arms, he had a chest. Hal's wife asked if he had nipples. I didn't see nipples. I didn't see a nipple lying there like that. Neck, very small mouth. The eyes, like this, as if they were drops. Like that. Lilac. Lilac. Just like Elizabeth Taylor's eyes. Yes.

1:43:13I'd heard about it, so when I saw it, I was like, whoa! Liz Taylor was probably an extraterrestrial, right? So the eyes, the skull in that way, that teardrop shape, right? And very peaceful. There was no suffering there, no suffering at all. There was no bad smell, no odor, no nervousness, Nothing diabolical. A very angelic kind of being. Totally at peace. How tall was the being? Like a seven-year-old child. Yeah, seven. Do you have any sense of the weight? I don't know. A child of about seven years old. Lying down. I didn't see here, you know. I didn't see down there. It was covered, you know.

1:43:56What was the nature of the surgery that was done on this being? I think he only gave a few stitches. But I'm guessing, right? I didn't see him stitch it up. He must have stitched it up a few times, because the surgical instruments in the video were very small. He didn't have a surgical kit. He didn't have many open tools. Neurosurgery is all about boxes and boxes of open tools. Just like Formula One, you know? Did you ever ask Marcos Venesis, how did you know how to perform surgery on this being? Were the organs similar to humans? Oh, that he already… He said he knew how to do that. He'd been working with us for about two or three years.

1:44:38But that's not much time for neurosurgery, right? It takes about 15 years for a neurosurgeon to mature, to gain the experience to do things like you guys here. You must have a lot of experience to be doing this whole podcast, right? He knew what he was doing. He wanted confirmation. Being young, and it was something so different, he wanted confirmation. He wanted to share it with someone. And since I was the one close to him that day, because he shared this with other colleagues, other very experienced colleagues, Dr. Domingos, Dr. Tassiz, doctors trained in Belo Horizonte, and many that were more experienced than me.

1:45:14But on that day, I was the one there. So it's almost like he wanted you to review his work and just make sure that he had done the right thing. Yes. Did he take anything out of the head, or it was just, what was the purpose of the surgery? I think it was only to give some stitches from the instruments I saw on the table. That I saw in the video, because when I went to look, there was nothing there anymore. It was covered up. It had already happened. That's why he said, come see what I've done. Okay, so it was not necessarily surgically removing anything. It was just repairing. Okay. Yes, to repair.

1:45:56That makes sense, because if you have something that's physiologically very different than a human being, if you had to do something more intricate or complex on the organ itself, if it wasn't something you were familiar with, that would be much harder, obviously. Did you learn anything else about the physiology of this being, whether they had the same reproductive organs as human beings, were their bone structures the same? I have to say, because from here down I couldn't see anything. It was covered up. There was definitely a bone structure, because there was an arm, a forearm, a hand, and an opposable thumb, as it's called.

1:46:36And three fingers here. When you're looking at it in the eyes, and do you feel like time is slowing, or do you feel any other sort of special, interesting sensations? What you just said is true. Time slows down. it really does slow down. Because he didn't talk to me, he didn't speak to me. But the feeling was, as I'm describing to you, that he understood what was happening. He wasn't afraid. He was highly intelligent, at least more than I was. It's like talking to a child. You're talking to the child, the child gives you something, you say, Thank you. It's okay. You can relax. He talked to me as if I were a child.

1:47:24And what were the words that were transpiring? Was it, first of all, was it verbal? Was it telepathic? Like, everything's all right. I can't say it's telepathic. I have no knowledge of, you know, parapsychology. I get asked about this a lot. But that was the feeling I had. The feeling that everything was all right. Especially because of that gaze. You also have a very calm gaze. So it was very gentle. Very understanding. Like, I understand what you've done for me here, thank you, but I gotta get going. I understand everything's fine. And he kept looking out the window. I think maybe to see his surroundings, perhaps.

1:48:11To see if he could locate where he was, to situate himself. He wasn't locked up. He wasn't restrained. People always ask me if he was tied up. Of course not. He was free. If you had to guess, how many witnesses at the hospital saw this being? Many people say they saw it. Nurses, the radiology technician says he saw a closed box. But as I'm telling you, it's difficult to talk about this subject. People say we're crazy. There's this thing about neurosurgeons being crazy, messing with the human brain, right? But it's difficult to talk about it. Many people ridicule us. So, did you operate on E.T.?

1:48:56Was it hard? Marcos Venesis, your friend, operated on The Being. He passed away in 2018. Between 1996 and 2018, did you ever have heart-to-heart conversations with him like, Marcos, oh my god We've experienced something profound And talk about, you know, speculate What was this being? What were his intentions with us? At his house He would show that video To all his relatives All of them There was a sofa, we'd go in There was a computer, this little table And we'd sit here and he'd show us Then he'd say, did you see this here? Now, he never talked to me About the military Never. He never talked to me about any pressure.

1:49:46He was afraid, perhaps, to talk about it. And we are afraid, even today, of losing our jobs. Of the government taking away our own medical licenses. Of questioning us. And you lose your medical license. Because it's your source of income. We're doctors. Our whole lives. It's our livelihood. So you talk, but with some reservation. As if you were a patient. You can't go around saying, I operated on this patient. He had HIV or he had this disease. I can't say any of that. If someone overhears that, I can be sued. So it was a very private conversation where you speak, but you don't, you know. In America, we have something called HIPAA, which is what you're saying, you know, patient confidentiality.

1:50:33Having said that, when the nature of reality is on the line, I think what you're doing is exactly right and correct. and uh yeah so let me ask you a little bit more about the physical attributes is there anything else worth noting about the the blood the texture of the skin any other physical attributes the texture resembled ours i can't say if it was soft or not because i didn't touch it because i had just come in from the street and we have medical that teaches us that when you enter the hospital, if you don't wash your hands, a nurse will already note it down, explaining to others, such and such went in, didn't wash his hands, didn't put on his cap, didn't put on his gown, and the hospital management, then they put it there.

1:51:26The doctor went in and didn't wash his hands, the doctor went in and didn't wash his hands, the doctor went in and didn't put on a mask, the doctor went in, you understand? So I hadn't... I had just walked in. I wasn't in the operating room, I wasn't in surgical scrubs, I was wearing my street clothes. Just looking. So I didn't touch it. And I approached it like this, I didn't get that close, about a meter, like the distance between us here. But you could see perfectly that there was no smell. He was very clean, very calm, I didn't see any blood, I didn't see any blood stains on the bed. Were they taking his biomarkers?

1:52:08So oxygen level, heart rate, those sorts of things Was he being monitored for... No No No, it wasn't being monitored at all Because as I'm telling you, it was an improvised location Clean, very clean Because the hospital there is very well maintained But it wasn't an area used for surgery It was an area that nowadays is an ICU I'm saying he, I'm assuming gender. Did you have any sense of the being's gender? Was it male? Was it female? No. No. No. There was none. I can't really say. Like I'm telling you, I didn't see nipples. And it had the look like that of a child. Even, many times, there are children that you...

1:52:53you can't tell, many times by the haircut, if they're male or female. It didn't have hair or fur. No fur. So I couldn't tell. And in our world, there are earrings, lipstick, or some different haircuts to differentiate. But it was a very, very simple being. You mentioned in a past interview with James that the being was like an angel. What makes you say that? And that we have a lot to learn from the being. You said that as well. Yes, we do. Because it had a look. I better be careful. I'm going to cry.

1:53:30It's a look of understanding. A kind of paternal and compassionate look. Like it's saying, I know what you're doing, but it's alright. It's fine. Whatever you did to me, it's over now. Everything's alright. I don't know if they arrested him or if they beat him. I can't say. That's what they say. And a very gentle, very calm look, like, go in peace. There's hope in your life. Keep moving forward. But that's my interpretation, right? So people wonder and ask, was there any contact? Do you have this here? Like an angel. Really looked like an angel. The kind of being that would forgive your sins, the silly things you did in life, our inability.

1:54:19And we did so little. We could have done perhaps much more for it, right? But it's not that we didn't want to. We didn't know how. especially in 96, we had almost nothing, you know. We had the equipment of that time. We didn't have the monitors we have today.

1:54:37Cameras, intercoms, monitors, blood gas analyzers, all those things that allow you to instantly diagnose, collect a blood sample, take an x-ray, you know. Back then it was what we call proctoscopy. The doctor looked and used the cognitive parameters that we have, right, from so much experience, let's say. That's why he called me. And I called others many times too and asked, what do you think of this? We talked, the doctors talked a lot in person, because we didn't have social media. I'd tell a story, you'd tell a story. We tried to operate as a team, because everyone would say something different, like, be careful with this, I would do it this way, I would do it that way.

1:55:22Nowadays doctors are very isolated and spend their time with computers and targets, which is fine, but it's a different kind of doctor, a different kind of person. We had the day-to-day experience. I operate with colleagues. What would you do? I would go this way. What would you do now? Now I would leave, you know. That's enough. I always say this to the younger ones. That's enough. So you told Marcos Venesis you've done a good job and there's nothing more to do, essentially. You've done a good job. That's it. It's all good. Will you call me if you need anything? I will. You mentioned that the being almost seemed to have control of the room.

1:56:07What did you mean by that? Total control. It understood what was happening. It's like when you see some children play. You're an adult. You're watching children play. You're in control. You didn't fall. You weren't hurt. You're calm. You can touch that. You won't get shocked. You're calm. The window isn't open. You're aware. They're playing. What was your first instinct when you saw the being? Is this being related to humanity in some way, evolutionarily? Or do they come from some distant place? Very advanced. First, like I said, that reassuring look, indicating that it wasn't an emergency. because for those of us who work in hospitals there's like a button here, emergency code red it wasn't a code red as you said and mentioned very well time stops it stops it belongs to him that time was ours everything else doesn't exist only that moment right there and it would look at us as if it were saying there's nothing but this moment anything else is another reality and it's really cool to see since you're asking me and the words keep coming there's no rush because the world today is in such a hurry someone looks at you you're already doing something else we do three or four things practically at the same time and there's no time to give time the time it needs You've mentioned a few times in this interview that there was no smell.

1:57:52Many of the other witnesses of the being have said an ammonia or sulfur-like smell accompanied this being or the craft crashing. Odorless. No smell at all. If there was a smell, it was the smell of the hospital. The smell of those products we use in a hospital. There was no bad smell. Nothing at all. Do you know what happened to the being? So you see the being. How long were you with the being face to face? Initially, about two minutes of looking. Looked this way, looked that way. I turned to talk to Max Vinicius. Okay, etc., etc. I looked again. Another one, two minutes. About three, four minutes in total.

1:58:42It's like I told James, I'm going to the U.S. But what I have to say is this. it was those four minutes. But four minutes that felt like an eternity. I was still wondering this morning. We who work in intensive care, we examine a patient and we want to come back the next day to see how they're doing, if they've improved, if they haven't. To this day, I still want to go back there to see if he's left yet. You know what I mean? You get worried. Not all patients. We don't get emotionally attached to everyone. But we do with some. With children, with the elderly, someone you saved. You get attached.

1:59:23You leave and you keep thinking about them, right? Just last night, I spent the whole night asking myself about potassium levels and, you know, overthinking. How did you sleep that night that you saw the being? Oh, I didn't grasp the magnitude of everything that had happened. I didn't have the perspective. I didn't. Nowadays, I have more of it because of how much it's talked about, how much people think about it. Nowadays, I have a better grasp, like I said about last night, overthinking things. It seems like even now, recollecting this memory, it's packed with emotion. Were you sad? Were you happy?

2:00:01Or did this excavate some feelings inside of you that you already had? How exactly would you describe the emotional impact of this being? At first, it was a relief. Because when he called me and I saw it, I thought it was an emergency, that we would have to intubate, go into surgery. When I saw that everything was worked out, I felt at ease. After that, a surprise, because you see something different, a different being.

2:00:37Then you start thinking like a doctor again. Could there be anything else? Could there be bleeding somewhere? There weren't that many monitors, so you just keep looking. Then you start analyzing. Then you calm down again. And then looking at him, you start to get emotional because you begin to see not so much the physical aspect, but the emotional aspect. the aspect of consciousness. You start to analyze other things. Consciousness, mood, whether he has the initiative to do things, whether he's mobilizing himself, whether he's afraid, you see other things. And as I said again, it's the look that moves me, a tranquil, calm look.

2:01:25I understand everything. I appreciate what you've done here. But it's time to go. Let's go. Enough is enough. He would even look up to the sky to get his bearings. Because there's a window there without bars or anything. You could see it perfectly. Why do you cry when you recollect the experience? And what emotion comes up inside of you just when you think about it? Because nowadays, doctors are criticized for everything they do. The colleague I mentioned, Max Vinicius, Once we operated on a child, and when I went to talk to the mother, she started scolding me. And he interrupted her, saying, Ma 'am, he's the surgeon, not the person that ran your child over.

2:02:18He did the surgery. So when someone recognizes your work, it's really great. Because our technical work is difficult. It requires training. But the hardest part for us doctors is enduring everything we see. There's a quote from a famous gentleman from Brazil called Xux Xavier, where he says, What you tolerate is just as important as what you know. So you can see that it's a form of recognition. It was a being who understood that I was doing my best, despite being limited. It was the best I could do. I was giving my soul. Everything I could do was being done for him. And for me. who is saying, forgive me for anything, but everything we know how to do is being done for you.

2:03:09It really is moving. It feels like you're stuck in that room and can never leave. Like a little piece of us stays there. You leave, the robot leaves, a little piece of yourself stays there. You go back there, you know? How did Marcos Venesis say that it affected him? Oh, a lot. He even began smoking more. He'd smoke all day. I would argue with him. And my wife would say, stop arguing with him. I'd go in the bathroom and see a bunch of cigarette butts on the floor. Max finished smoking. You're smoking. No, no, it's not me. It's my wife. His wife didn't smoke. Silvana would say, stop fighting with him.

2:03:59So he took up smoking because of this experience with the being. Did it cause him stress? No, he already smoked, but then he started chain smoking. One after the other. Why do you think the experience accelerated his smoking? High level of stress, you know. Really high level. Stress. You see, being a doctor is stressful, isn't it? Because wherever you go, you're a doctor. If you crashed your car, you're a doctor. If you insulted someone, you're a doctor. If you did this, you're a doctor. Right, Doc? So our lives aren't as simple as people say. We don't earn as much as people say. Our mental work is immense.

2:04:45You have to be polite even when you're tired. You have to, you know? You have to answer even when you're busy. The work of a doctor here in the United States, you have a wonderful medicine. But the work of a doctor on the front lines, the young doctor is tough. You have to learn, you have to see. There are endless meetings, many sleepless nights. So, going back to the question you asked me, when he looked at us, it was already a look of... Because otherwise, it's just criticism. If you get it right, you've done nothing more than your duty. Anything you did even slightly different... You know, it's like a fighter.

2:05:28He fights 50 fights. and the one time he didn't defend himself, our Western society hurts people. The more successful you become, the more criticism you face. You see artists, great artists, great singers, if they forget a piece of the lyric, all hell breaks loose. And how much effort was put into getting an engineer, you guys, even in your own work. If someone says they can't come in because of personal problems, our world is very cruel. And there was no look of cruelty there. There was a look of understanding, a gentle look. You don't come across a look like that. I have a wife who is a wonderful person, and she sees me that way.

2:06:14But most people are critical, critical, critical, critical. And this was moving because it was a maternal look, not even a paternal one. It made you feel good, saying, you're good. You can go ahead. Move forward. Keep going. Don't dwell upon it. Moving forward, a forgiving look, a look of freedom. Keep doing what you're doing. Go, like Jesus would say, go forth and multiply. Be fruitful, you know? Did you ever ask Marcos Venesis what was it like to do surgery on a non-human entity, what could be an alien being? No, he was also very worried, you know. He wanted our approval, so things wouldn't fall on him.

2:07:02Nothing went wrong, because I think they took it away. We didn't continue. We didn't see how that procedure went. We don't know if it worked or not. Whether it's alive or dead. They said they brought it to the United States from Area 51, but I don't know if that's just folklore, you know? I don't know if that's true. Who said that the being was transferred to Area 51 in the United States? No, in Brazil, the whole story, right, Dr. Armand? Is that the army took the story. I can't prove anything. The story was he was taken, carried to Campinas, to a very famous pathologist, a friend of Dr. Armandus, Palhares, and that they then took it to Area 51.

2:07:47I don't know. That's what they say, right? I'm just repeating what they tell me. Were you a witness to the being being removed from the hospital? Did you have any details on that? No. I went into the room. He was there. I left the room. He was there. I didn't see if he was taken or removed. I did see the army trucks, those trucks with the green tarps. They were all at the hospital entrance. My car wasn't there. I went in because I was on foot. I entered through the corner of the hospital. Everything was cordoned off there. You've mentioned multiple times that there is a video around the surgery that Marcos Vinicius performed, and that he would even show people a video of him essentially performing surgery on this alien.

2:08:35Where do you think that video is? I always thought that his wife had it. She's also a very simple, modest person. I think she didn't understand everything he did. because he really liked collecting American watches. He collected stuff, you know? Related to musicians. He used to love buying lots of things online. Gifts, you know? Novelties. A new blood pressure monitor. A different kind of stethoscope. Different things, but everyday items. Cheap things to buy online. Mostly American. So I don't know if she managed to get it that day. James went there. They searched his whole house, you know. They took his computer to a warehouse in São Paulo.

2:09:29They didn't find anything either, did they? I don't know. But as I'm telling you, it was public property. Everyone saw it. His whole family saw it. Some fellow doctors saw it. But people don't want to talk about it. Because like they say in the countryside, We depend on medical appointments. We depend on people seeking us out. If they say, that one operated on ET, don't go to him. That one's a smoker. Smoked himself to death. Drank himself dry. Do you have any sense of where this video is right now? I think it's still around there, but they searched so hard. I don't think he had the insight to make a copy and save it for his wife.

2:10:21I don't know if he actually did all that. You know what I'm saying? To think one day they'll need that tape. I don't know if he had the foresight to keep it, you know? So if you had to guess, do you think that the tape is lying around in private civilian hands? In his house, in the middle of a bunch of CDs. Ah, you think it's in his house still? Yes, I believe so. Like I was saying, he had the Breitler watch collection. He had several watches. Omega. He collected a lot of stuff, a lot of CDs, you know? You seem to be implying that there's a connection between his watches and the video. What do you think that connection might be?

2:11:06Where he kept it. He kept it hidden in a separate closet in his room. Once a lot of his things were stolen after he died. That's what his wife says. I don't even know if the thief knows what they stole.

2:11:24Know what I mean? Because there was so much stuff. They stole the watch, but there were many other things. CDs, clothes. Jesus. Yeah, like you said. No. Yeah, it was a place where he kept the stuff. He gave watches to a lot of people. He gave away his watches. A lot of souvenirs. He'd give them away. There have to be other photographs, other videos that were taken at the hospital. Do you think somewhere a video, a photo is lying around in private civilian hands? A lot of people claim that, but you can't really believe it. James knows. people have already tried to sell so many videos to him but they're not real they're very well put together with lighting props and lights and of course there was nothing like that at that moment it was just that little camera actually a big camera like the ones from the 90s you won't remember, you're young but they were really big we put them on our shoulder like this like those TV cameras there were no small tapes No cell phones, no internet.

2:12:35We didn't grasp the magnitude of all that could happen. I at least had no idea about it. In 2023, you gave an interview to Marco Leal, who's James' co-producer on his movies, a famed UFO researcher local to the region, and you told him that you hadn't seen the being directly, you just saw the video. And so a lot of people on the internet and in public are saying, You know, that's an inconsistency in his statements. What do you have to say about that? Well, they're right because I couldn't tell everything, even in 2023. And I didn't want to. Because it's not as simple as me being here. To be here, I had to pay people to be on call for me.

2:13:21I've exposed myself to doing a lot of things. We expose ourselves to the medical council censoring us. There are a number of things. I'm not rich. I live off the work I do. But when James went looking for the tape, he looked for the tape, looked for the tape, looked for the tape. He's going to offer a million dollars to Marcus Vinicius' wife if she has the tape. And when they didn't find the tape, didn't find the tape, I'm in the ICU and he's still interviewing me. At one point I said, I can't prove it. I don't have the tape. Max Vinicius died. Whatever I say, you either believe it or you don't.

2:14:05That's a difficult thing to accept. But I was in the ICU. I thought I was going to have to be intubated. I had a pulmonary thrombosis. I thought I was going to check out. I'm done. I had also had a heart attack. Then, going back to talking to James, where's the tape? At one point I said, I don't have the tape, but I was there. Either you believe my word or you don't. But I was there. I saw it. And I told the whole story that I'm telling you now, the entire sequence. And how emotional I get when I talk about it. I speak mainly to younger people. I saw it. You can believe it. You cannot believe it.

2:14:51You can tell me I'm this, I'm that. But it was right there in front of me. Do you believe it or not? And there are so many accounts that make the load lighter. Because as Dr. Armando says, he even came with me, it's hard for one person to talk about it. It's just my word. Nowadays, there are other testimonies that have revealed more things. And some Americans were there to encourage us to come here and talk. Because they also have accounts. It's just that they can't talk about it either. Well, in your defense, my friend Amar was just down in Virginia with you. And you were speaking to you. But there was also, I think, a nurse there who had worked under you.

2:15:32And for the first time, she started to speak about this being. And it seems like from his assessment, it's an open secret among the hospital. People don't like to talk about it. But if you really question them and they're in a comfortable private environment, they admit that there's something there. I think what people might be wondering about in your case, because your credentials are unimpeachable in my opinion, but they might be wondering why not go from outright denial because you're fear for your life and because, you know, it's hard to talk about these things to admitting that you saw the being.

2:16:08I think people might have trouble with the fact that you said you saw the video, and then you go into seeing the being. And maybe that's just nervousness and not knowing how to react in these sort of situations. Like I said, not even to my children or my wife. I told my wife this. This is a closed subject. But as I thought, I was really going to die. And I always said to James, separate money from what I'm saying. I'm not selling anything. Nothing. I don't need to take anything. The little I have is enough for myself. But people need to know that they have it. it's the religious people who are afraid I'm not talking about religion I'm not talking about religion people say it's a matter of national security that I couldn't talk about it so there are some doctors who treated a soldier he was questioned by the federal police it's not so simple to just speak up people come to demand consequences councils demand answers colleagues demand answers there are so many consequences especially in Brazil You yourselves heard the other day, doctors treat a former president and the justice system itself investigates, wanting to see what happened, why he did this, why he did that.

2:17:28It's not total freedom that we have, it's a monitored freedom. Did anything happen to you, did any consequences occur when you spoke out about this? No. No, but I am afraid. Were you ever threatened? My life is afraid. We're afraid of everything. Being attacked, being murdered, of religious fanatics coming after us. It's not so easy to talk. People insult us on the internet. Who gave you your car? I have such a basic car. Have you ever been threatened or bribed? No. It's only on the internet that they're very offensive. I don't even look. Do you know anything about possible American involvement?

2:18:13independent of obviously what people, residents of Virginia, people in Brazil might think. No. Anything from the hospital as far as like American CIA or Air Force. Based on all the testimonies, and it's suspected that some military personnel know, but they can't identify themselves. They give interviews by modifying their voice. They give interviews with their backs turned. something did happen because so many people say so many things that they saw so many sightings they're talking off the record they tell us I've experienced that too an American soldier I saw him on the top of my house but if I say anything I'd lose my pension in the US I should also defend you here and say the way you reacted I think is normal for somebody who isn't media trained You're not a media personality.

2:19:10There's a guy, Dr. Cesario, who's a cardiologist, and he has a similar trajectory in the way his story evolved, where it is clear to us, and we're about to speak to Dr. Armando, who literally did the autopsy on Marco Chirasi, this soldier who apprehended this being and seemed to die of a bacterial infection that we've never seen the likes of before. and this cardiologist who was in touch with, in close touch with Marco Chirici before he died, he would say things like, Marco, Marcos would tell me that he was dying of this bizarre infection, it wouldn't stop, and that he thinks it came from a possible wound or, you know, contamination from this oily, you know, kind of emulsion that came from the skin of the ET being.

2:20:06And then he would say things like, oh, no, but his sister told me, his sister told me, you know, and he wouldn't know how to react, you know, if you were interrogating somebody, you know, it would look kind of bad, but it would look bad insofar as the real truth being that he actually was in close, you know, touch with and in communication with Marco Chirici. And so I just, I also want people to have that context that if you're not media trained and you're not savvy about this stuff and you're put on the spot by some, you know, UFO researcher, then you might say things that later, you know, you regret as far as the inconsistency, but it's very natural.

2:20:48So, the day we were at Dr. Armando's house, Dr. Cesario is a very good friend of mine, very reserved, extremely competent, but he also has his reservations because he has been questioned before, because he tended to the soldier, and he went to the Federal Commission. And when I was asked,

2:21:08was he tied up? Dr. Cesario went,

2:21:17I didn't see Was he tied up? No Did you ever interact with Marco Chereci at all? No, no I didn't see Cherez, no We're speculating now But what do you think the intent of this being was With humanity at large? So people say that They saw the ship being shot down, that someone fired on it because it was already falling when it arrived. That's what the young man will tell you, Kahus. He saw it falling. It must have fallen there by chance after being shot at. I don't know by whom, but the ship was already shot down. That's what I know. That's what I think. That he didn't go looking there. He just crashed there.

2:22:05So the closest place with decent conditions was there. The other towns are smaller. Many cities don't even have hospitals. Nowadays it's a much more developed place, but back then it had that hospital, the regional hospital. I want you to describe the video in as much detail as you can, and I think this is important because if a video surfaces, it should have these details that you're describing, and that's good corroboration both for your testimony and for the veracity of the video. So can you describe the video, the length and then what happens in the video? I can. So I went into the room, the doctor was over here, there was a big camera which I held in my hand, it had something like a calculator, small, here, and then the black and white video.

2:23:03A being with a slightly larger head lying down. surgical material it was like what we call an amesis basin with a needle holder forceps the being lying there looking at the camera like that without any sign of suffering may have taken a minute and a half or two so much so that I thought it might be a child with Crouzon syndrome because of the slightly larger And I asked him, what is this?

2:23:42He was beside me. Then he moved over this way. And he said, it's right next to me. From the video, this is what I saw. Black and white. A child with a larger head. Lying down, in the same position he was lying in. Head this way, body this way. Long arms. And very calm. and he was conscious, he was awake, he had eyes. In the video you couldn't see if there were pupils because it was black and white. Only that size. And I don't know who filmed it either. Because if he had surgery, someone else intervened, or someone else filmed it. He wouldn't have had time to film and do that himself. The surgery itself isn't shown.

2:24:28What's shown is the being. It was like a post-operative period. It already happened. He keeps telling me, come see what I did. He didn't do it in front of me. He did it right there and then. You understand? And the material that I saw was this. It was just a clamp and forceps. As if a stitch had been done. Like we do in emergency rooms. So much so, the location was improvised. Did you see the video before or after you saw the being? He showed it to everyone. Over and over again. Several times. We would go to his house, he would show us things, other things. And he would show us watches, clothes, instruments, blood pressure monitors.

2:25:16And you… did you see the video before or after you saw the being directly? I saw the video before, and then immediately afterwards I saw the being. I saw the video before, so that's why I asked, what is this? I thought, can it be another case of Crouzon syndrome? I imagine so, but it wasn't. Did you see the video at his house, or did you see the video in the hospital? I saw the video as soon as I arrived at the hospital. He called me over and said, come see what I saw, come see what I did. I went down to that area, he showed me the video. And I said, okay, but I didn't understand what it was. I asked him, what's this?

2:26:01Could it be another child with cruzons? We're neurosurgeons, not craniofacial surgeons, that operate cruzons. We do the cranial area. Cruzons are done by other professionals. They perform that. So I was left wondering, what did you do? What is this? Here it is. There was a screen. I don't know if you understood the sequence. Makes sense. And if you… Michael, do you have anything? Yeah, I mean, I'm still unclear as to what exactly the surgery was, and did he look at it?

2:26:43And did you inspect or observe? No. The surgery was on this side. And I was there, he was here. I couldn't see this part of him. He was on the other side, from what I understood. And from the materials on the table and the location, it wasn't a major neurosurgery operation. Neurosurgery involves boxes and boxes and boxes of supplies. There are microscopes, microscope covers, and different surgical attire. Not there. That was a makeshift procedure location. That's where he put it together. from what I understand. He put some stitches in the creature's head from the material that I'm seeing in the video.

2:27:31When I looked at it later, there was no material left. It was already clean. It was after the surgery. I think he only put in a few stitches because there was a needle holder. Why didn't you look closely? Why didn't you inspect? Because he was here and I was far away. He was by the wall. I was over here. I was preoccupied with other things, as I said. We get worried about whether they're breathing, whether they're bleeding, if they're nervous, if they're in pain. The window was there, and he was right there by the window. I didn't go in behind it to look at him there. But the other doctor, did you speak to him afterwards about what he had done?

2:28:15No, he said he did a small surgery, and look what I did. But given the location, everything was for a minor surgery, a stitch, something like that. They didn't have the necessary materials. But like, you must have talked to the other surgeon about what he did to the alien afterwards.

2:28:35No, he only said, look what I did. I didn't speak to him after about what he did. I thought it was a valve. I understood he had put a valve in the being. Then afterwards, I think he put in some stitches That's all, what he did was very vague I can't really answer you But then he would show the video to friends and family Did he tell them? That was in the video I saw Look what I did, that's what he kept saying But did anybody ever go, what did you do? Specifically They were mostly from his family, simpler people And the doctors who saw it, many times we, many times we didn't even believe it. We really didn't.

2:29:23Could it be a hoax? Could it be a hoax? But how could he put that together so quickly back then? I arrive and he already has the being there and the film ready. I mean, it wasn't something that was planned. It's something that happened right there and then. It's all improvised. All improvised. But didn't you like, I mean, it seems like you knew him for years afterwards. I mean, didn't you ever just go, what did you do to the alien? Why? Oh, we were very afraid to talk about it. We don't talk about patients. Regarding patients, we discuss cases. When you have a few cases, you talk about them. When the team is involved, that's fine.

2:30:04But otherwise, we don't talk about like, I operated on that one. I got an IV there. I did this over there. That's not done. And did I understand correctly that when you arrived at the hospital that TV Globo was there and asked you if there was an operation on the alien? Yes. So that means that, can you repeat, can you say specifically, because the details are so interesting for us. Did you, like when you parked your car, you walk in because there was a blockade and there's TV cameras or what happened there? I didn't have my car. I had operated and my office was nearby. I went to write prescriptions, reports.

2:30:40I didn't see patients. It was mostly bureaucratic stuff. And I was worried about the boy. When I returned, it was closed. No cars could enter. I went in through the pedestrian area. And the hospital entrance was there. The trucks were here. As I arrived, the reporter came up to me with a microphone. Did you operate on the ET? I don't know what she's talking about. And I think one question I know that the audience will ask based on Michael's questions, which I think are great, is if you were brought in by Marcos Vinicius to review the surgery, because he's saying you're a more senior guy, you're a more senior neurosurgeon, I want you to check my work, why wouldn't you know the exact nature of that surgery?

2:31:39Because I hadn't seen Marcos Vinicius yet. When she came in and asked about the alien, I'm out here. He's in there. There's no cell phone. I haven't seen Marcos Vinicius yet. I don't know what's going on in there. When I entered the hospital and went down to the pediatrics ward... No, no, no. Not from the TV reporters before. That makes total sense. I mean, generally, like now, the specific surgery that was done, why don't you know those details? given that he was bringing you in to kind of check his work and review it as a senior neurosurgeon. But it was to see if the patient was okay. That was it.

2:32:19Just to see if the patient was okay. Was he alive? He didn't go into detail about the type of surgery, because I think it was something so simple that he had no doubts. Just a stitch. He was inexperienced, but not that inexperienced. He performed neurological surgery. He mainly dealt with trauma. Trauma is the first thing we learn, because there's so much trauma in Brazil. He had no questions. He didn't go to ask, do you think the surgical technique I used was correct? No, that wasn't the point. It was to see if the being was okay. If I hadn't gone there, he would have continued seeing patients there.

2:33:01He was already fine. He didn't need me. He only asked, because he always asked. it was more of a sign-off. Someone saw it here with me. I didn't do it alone. But I didn't do anything. I didn't operate. He did it alone. The credit is his. Now I don't know what happened to him. And since I thought it was a very simple question from you, we didn't even talk about it. Apparently just to put a stitch in. I wasn't going to talk about that. But like stitches. So he said to you, to come see what I did like he always did? That's right. Because it's a little strange to be like, I just operated on an alien, come see what I did, just like it's a normal thing.

2:33:45But was he, did he seem like agitated or upset? At least I didn't have a sense of it. Until I saw it, until I examined it, until I calmed down, that's when it started to dawn on me that it was a different being. Until then, we view them as patients at risk of death.

2:34:06You see this as a risk of emergency. When he called me, it even distracted me from there. And we... I was in a hurry to see the other one. Then and there I realized there was no reason to rush. He had already done it. The whole issue of it being an extraterrestrial, all of that, that came up later. But at the time you don't grasp the full extent of it. I know I didn't. dimension of that one day i would be here talking to you but it seems like the next time you saw him wouldn't you have been like dude what was that all about like sure and you get so you had that conversation and what was that like sure but not at the moment it happened what with macros venice no average patient but afterwards when when did you first talk to the other surgeon about what you had both what about the aliens i only spoke with macros venice we have other neurosurgeons there and I don't know if they saw it or if they talked to him but it was that sort of thing that you don't go into detail about you don't speculate if it were today my god what did you do what stitch did you use what kind of thread but that was never the point of discussion he tended to the being it's alive okay next it just seems I think it's it's shocking in in the sense that it seems like you were treating it like a normal patient when it was completely alien.

2:35:38Is it just you were, is that just because you were in a particular, did you process it later? But at the time, you don't have all this awareness that you are having that I'm having now. We never imagined we'd be talking about this on television. It was like a medical secret that happened, period. Nobody will talk about it anymore.

2:36:00Because it's dangerous to talk about it. So it's like when you say, this patient has leukemia. Or when, for the first time, HIV emerged. You don't keep saying that patient is HIV positive. Does that patient have HIV? No. You write it down. So it's sort of a culture of discretion. Discretion, like you're using a lot of discretion and secrecy because it's private. Is that why? Yes. There's an ethics committee, there's the CRM, Regional Medical Council, there's the police, there's the press. Anything you say about someone's family member. Oh, he said my relative has cancer. I'm not going around saying that.

2:36:47What do you think? I don't think anything. The TV reporter that was out front, are you confident that they were with TV Globo? Or could it have been a different… Do you know who it was? Global TV. Do you know who the reporter was? I'm sure because it was written there. And I always gave interviews to them about vaccines, about meningitis. Do you know, was it a woman or a man? A woman. Do you remember what she looked like? Brunette. Uh, medium stature, brown dress. And I didn't curse because it was Global TV. You operated on E.T.? Do you know who told her? No idea. I didn't swear, not because I'm very polite, no.

2:37:31But I thought at the time, if I swear here and it comes out on Globo, if a doctor gets a bad reputation, that he's rude, he's crazy, and in the countryside, that makes a difference. And but was she waiting when you left the hospital? Was there any other media there when you left? There was, there was. And I just said to her, I thought she was talking about the boy.

2:37:55because I was taking offense on behalf of the boy. But I said, that's not how you talk about people. And I moved on. I didn't finish the sentence. I said, what a fucking lack of respect. I got in my car. When you saw this alien being in the room, did you make the connection with the TV global reporter in her question? you say, oh, that must have been what she was asking about. No. Oh, yes, later, right? Later. Later. I said she was right. Did the hospital ever take administrative action against you because of your speaking out about this after 2023? No, they just prohibited me from filming inside.

2:38:44And that's right, because once I filmed, I went into the maternity ward with James in the room, where it was. They reprimanded me because I shouldn't have done that. They were right. The hospital is right about that. To film something inside the hospital, that's why the hospital management had permission, because there are other patients, right? It could have happened that I saw another patient, something like that. The hospital management is right. It was the only time, but they treat me very well. When Marcos Vinicius would show the video, how did he do that? Did he show it on the TV? Did he have the camera at home?

2:39:17Did he put a VHS in the VCR? At home, on his computer, they would come into the room, sit on the sofa, he would sit in front of the computer, and maybe a CD or a tape, but I think it was a CD, because he would show it repeatedly sometimes. So people would come over and go, here's my nice watches and here's my alien video? He showed other cases. He showed other cases. Other cases.

2:39:48We'd arrive at his house and he'd put on a show. Yeah, look at this watch. Look at this gadget I bought to measure God knows what. Look at this stethoscope right here. Lots of souvenirs you buy online, right? Look at this Breitling. Breitling. And Omegas, too. He gave them away to a lot of people. I even... My wife says I used to argue with him a lot. Because he had a stent put in his heart.

2:40:20And smoking. And buying watches. There was a time. Why was he able to, I mean, Breitling, Omega, those are expensive watches. So expensive. How did he have that much money? Neurosurgeons at one time made a lot of money. Because back then you could operate. And when the patient stayed in different accommodations, you could operate and charge for a different accommodation. That's how I built my house. But at another time, he had a daughter. He started spending money on racehorses.

2:40:59You know what? I bought a horse.

2:41:06and my daughter loves them. It's a different kind of money.

2:41:12And now we're paying for it to stay on a breeding farm with four stents in your chest.

2:41:24That's what I'd say, with four stents in your chest. Can I talk to you? Better not.

2:41:34my wife used to say, stop arguing with Marcos Vinicius. But he smokes. He bought a horse. Do you know if Marcos Vinicius ever told his wife or his daughter anything about his experience? Of course. And did he speculate about this alien being himself in his private life? He did. Sure. That I can't answer. His wife is a wonderful person, but she's a simple person. I like her very much. Her name is Rosalina. However, I also adopted a slightly more rational stance when she came to talk to me. She had a bracelet, earrings. I'd say, for the love of God. Walking around like that, you'll get mugged. You'll get ripped off.

2:42:22You'll get slapped. Oh, my. My wife said, stop saying that to them. I used to say, Marcus Vinicius is dead. He gave you these things, but he's dead. You need to invest that money. You have a daughter. He didn't leave a very large insurance policy. You know what I mean? So be careful. Did you speak to anybody else in Virginia or in the hospital who is face-to-face with the being and compare your experience with their experience? And if so, what are those details from what they experienced? No, I never talked about any of this at the hospital. Nowadays, when I talk about it at the hospital, many people say that the room was really locked, that this really happened here, because on that day, people can find details of what they saw.

2:43:20But it's like when James' team was in Brazil. They're getting people to tell the story, to incentivize people like me to speak, And they put the pieces together. Because nobody saw everything, right? Each one of us saw part of it. I saw a piece of it, I'm completely opening my heart, I'm even talking about Rosalina's things. I hope she forgives me when she hears this. I don't want to offend anyone, you know. But this shows you the level of intimacy involved. But they don't say what kind of surgery it was. There are two other colleagues that I haven't spoken to about this. But does anybody else say, I looked the being in the eyes and it felt like an angel, it felt non-judgmental, peaceful, loving?

2:44:07Not that I know of. Anybody else that you've spoken to? Not that I know of. No, not to my knowledge. That was my impression at that moment, you know? Has this experience made you more religious in any way, more spiritual? A bit more realistic, you know? A little more realistic. because I'm already pretty old, and I won't be around for long. So, mainly to give hope to you younger people that, yes, it is possible, whether you believe it or not, there are beings that are different from us. And I had a great pleasure getting to know America here. I found it very beautiful. I love Americans. You saved us in the World Wars.

2:44:52I love Americans. I had a 48 Jeep from the war. In memory of the war, I really like American soldiers. Extremely trustworthy. And I really like the stories when Americans return from the war and reunite with their families. Those testimonies, those scenes are very beautiful. I thank America for being here and God save America.

2:45:25if you had unlimited resources and money and you knew that there'd be no negative repercussions, what would you do to get your hands on this video? What would be the first action steps for finding it? I'd go back to his place, and I'd have to go through everything once again. And I would need to hear this story about the robbery because some of his watches were stolen from his house. And he had a cabinet in the corner of his room at the back where he kept his watches, where he kept his CDs, his souvenirs, you know. That's probably where he put it. She lives in the same house. She lives there. But about the robbery that happened there, I'd need to talk to her.

2:46:15I heard that many of his watches were stolen, but I didn't go there. I never went back to his house again. there must have been during like from 1996 until when you started talking about this in 1993, or sorry, in 2023, you must have, people in town must have talked about this or you heard, you were there when he showed these videos and these conversations were happening. What kind of conversations did you hear people talking about in relationship to Virginia and what was, or in relation to the alleged alien? And what was your own like response to, did you feel like I should be you're like worried or what was that experience like hearing other people talk about i work in the icu and there are nurses who know the girls that saw it valkyria and they say that most of them so there are nurses who know the girls who saw the extraterrestrial they've had They had it rough because they're criticized, they had to change schools because of bullying.

2:47:24Nobody made any money from this. They remain in the same city, giving the same testimony. They weren't able to get their passports approved to come here because they don't have stable jobs, right? They have simple jobs, you know? But the three of them stick to it the same. There's no reason to talk about this if it weren't for that. Oh, I won this, I won that. They've been promised a lot, but they... They've been persuaded to change their stories, to say they didn't see anything. You know? I met them the other day. We talked about the same thing. The difficult part isn't telling the story. The difficult part is being accused of lying.

2:48:04Hearing that none of it happened. Accused of making it up just to get on TV. We had dinner together. It's the same thing. It's not, it's what we had to endure to get to this point. You'll hear other testimonies. People don't believe it. They have every right to, of course. It's something that changes everything. But. And how would you describe your own reasons for staying quiet for so long? Were you just afraid of people making fun of you? Were you afraid of being fired? Like, what was the core fears? Or I guess what's preventing you from speaking out until now? To this day. Because we have jobs.

2:48:47We don't have any other source of income. It's the everyday work. It's being on call. A lot of all-nighters, very little sleep. Car bills, cell phone bills, school tuition fees for our kids. The greatest fear is because people really come down hard on us. What do you hope for the world to understand through your testimony and why are you coming forward now in the United States? That is a wonderful question. What I think they come to tell us is peace. Because we live in this world in a tiny piece of the Milky Way, on the periphery of the Milky Way, right? And we fight all the time. We mistreat our neighbors, our brothers.

2:49:35I'm not trying to make a religious speech. I'm not religious at that level. But so that we respect each other more. As Freud said, if we're going to coexist, we're going to have to agree on what to do. And there are bishops that said I should talk to the Pope, but talk to him about what? Is he going to excommunicate me? There's no need to. There's more to it. In my father's house, there are many mansions. So that's the risk of being exposed by a media that's much more powerful than us. It crushes us. They'll spin a narrative that destroys you. Your career destroys you as a person. They destroy your morale, your self-esteem.

2:50:25It's very easy and very dangerous to talk about this. Just as there are people who like it, there are people who don't. To many people it's of no interest to them. It ruins their business. Right? It ruins various types of religions that say that we're the center of the universe. It ruins everything. It's something not worth believing in. But for some people it's good. To see that there's so much more. So much more. we need to evolve a lot regarding, we've evolved a lot from a technological point of view, but very little from a social point of view very little do you have any information on the alien's condition when it was taken to the hospital exactly was it bleeding or was anything occurring with the body specifically no there isn't But the story I know is that if it went to the hospital, it was an emergency.

2:51:27They thought of taking it to the zoo.

2:51:32That's the story. They would take it to the zoo as if it were an animal. But then they took it to the hospital. If my colleague took it there and stitched it up, it's because he must have been bleeding heavily. Blood is what scares laypeople, right? It scares all of us, of course. But if it's bleeding, then… So if it went there and was taken quickly to that place, it must have been bleeding. That's what I think. Otherwise it didn't need to be there. It was breathing normally. It wasn't in a coma. It wasn't intubated. Because critical patients get intubated. They get an IV drip. It didn't even have an IV drip.

2:52:14Nothing had been injected into it. You see? All I had was what would eventually happen. As I described, putting in stitches. That's why I think they took it to the hospital and then took it away. Are you familiar with any colleagues, friends, other witnesses who experienced the so-called men in black phenomenon of somebody coming up to them and telling them they can't speak publicly about this? Or, again, bribes, threats, anything like that? No, there is one from Dr. Cesario, but it was regarding the police officer. And there's a report from the officer who saw a dead being. I saw a living being.

2:53:04I was talking to Dr. Carl just now. He was saying that they have a lot of descriptions, a lot of things. He separated them very well, physics and biology. He's a physicist. This is a physical and biological matter. He says, when a living being is involved, it changes our conversation. Right? So I invited him to go there, right? He can stay at my house for as many years as he wants. To do research there. There's a project to research the place there, where it was, you know, where they appeared. It's a vacant lot that's still there today, in Vagina. The land is fenced off, but there are visitations.

2:53:53The story goes that J.J. Benitez went there and collected soil to see if there was any radioactive material. There's the testimony of the guy who saw the spacecraft, picked up a piece with his hand. Very interesting as well. That's it. How many witnesses do you know personally? I realize you're estimating you don't have to come up with the exact number on the spot, but... Many people. When you talk about it, everyone has a story to tell. I also saw it. I also had an opportunity. I play... Countless people say it, saying that Bobby Fischer saw it. I was talking about Carl. Bobby Fischer was tired of saying that the Russians did this to him.

2:54:48Bobby Fischer, look it up. That he would play and they would come in and there were gurus, Russian parapsychologists, influencing that a person made a move, but it was a computer-generated move, and they were in 74. I study a lot, I played chess, I almost played professionally. He says that all the time. an impossible move, a God move. They'd say, ah, he did that because the people used to meet in that room. The Russians would meet in that room. And in doing that, he already had a certain computer, some kind of calculation, even those calculations from that wartime coding. And they would play around with it.

2:55:29And another thing, they had studied my games. They had all my statistics. They even knew what I was going to do down to the 10th round. And he was alone. He had Asperger's. He was a genius. One of the greatest geniuses here, in America. So what's the connection between Bobby Fischer and the witnesses? Yeah, the contacts. Oh, in chess, several people have already seen it. I have a very large group. They say they've already seen it. There's a lot here on my phone. I've seen it too. I've seen it too. I've seen it too. People who play the piano. I've seen it too. I've seen it too. I play a little too.

2:56:14Those online forums. A lot. I've seen it too. I've got it right here. People who play chess say they saw... They say they saw the alien beings? Yes. The people who play piano. I've seen it. I've seen it come out of the piano. It's funny. I just interviewed a guy who is president of the World Chess Federation for 20 years. And his name is Kyrsan Ilyumzinov. And he's a president of a Russian republic. And he was one of the last guys to play chess with Bobby Fischer. After Bobby Fischer had already retired, he was kind of paranoid. And he says, and you know, this is the, he says, first of all, he said he was abducted by aliens or taken by aliens, invited onto a spaceship while he was sitting president of his Russian Republic of Kalmykia in 1997, so a year after your experience.

2:57:10And he also says that, and this is the more speculative part of the interview, he says that the game of chess comes from aliens. And I don't know. Well, can I go a little further? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I won't do an interview. Go. Yeah. In order to talk about this, I wrote a short story. How could I examine the ET if I didn't have a CT scan? If I didn't have anything? So it's a chess game called The Universal, which is a chess game. It's not my invention, it's Adriano Caldeiras, the Brazilian champion. It's his invention. Since I had no way of testing the ET, we took him to a place and played chess.

2:58:01So I didn't need to make the move He already knew the move So you wrote a short story about the alien Already knowing how to play chess intuitively Yeah Fascinating The whole story is there You just need to know how to play chess My story's there It's written down right there Very amazing, yeah I don't know what to make of it You know, he also told the story of one of the greatest chess players, you know, playing a simulation or something before he was about to play a big tournament. And the moves made themselves and he attributed it to some sort of alien intervention. But all of this is very speculative.

2:58:43Dr. Italo. Look it up. James has it. The universal chess game. Fantastic. Ah, I'd love to read it. Amazing. Well, Dr. Italo Venturelli, I'm so grateful for you coming to the United States and giving your testimony. Thank you to Michael Schellenberger. Exactly. Yes, co-host on American Alchemy, who's remarkably proficient in Portuguese. And I really hope you gave a lot of details here that people can be skeptical, but you gave details that my hope is are corroborated in the future. Let's try to find this reporter from, you know, Brazil, from Virginia. Was it TV Globo? And then let's also try to find this video and try to find more corroboration.

2:59:34Because as far as background and pedigree and, you know, no incentive to lie, all of those things go like you're pretty as good as it gets in my book. And thank you. Yeah, I just I'm very I'm very grateful. Thank you so much for doing this. Thank you. Hi, my name is José Marcos Moreira. I'm a cardiologist from Virginia, but nowadays I'm still in Sao Paulo. And I met Dr. Italo since I was a child. He's a very serious guy, very serious man. And I believe in his history about the AT of Virginia, because he's a very serious man, and I really believe in him. And you have another friend who's a doctor.

3:00:32Oh yes, and I have another friend, his name was Fernando Eugênio. Unfortunately, he died in 2015, and he told me he was passed in the Hospital Regional in Virginia, and he saw the fit of the creature. Only this because there's a lot of military persons around around there and they asked him to go away, please go away and don't stay here. And the only thing that he told me before he died was that he really saw the the fate of the creature in the original emergence. And I believe him because he was a very nice guy, a very serious guy too. That's what I have to say. Roughly three hours after the girls witnessed the strange creature, military police officers Eric Lopes and Marco Ceresi drive down this road on the lookout for something unusual when suddenly it runs right across their path.

3:02:10It was captured by Marco Elixerez with his bare hands easily and taken to the hospital.

3:02:23Apart from second-hand rumors of what took place inside the hospital made by anonymous sources, little is known about what happened to the alleged alien. The driver, Eric Lopes, has been in hiding, and the officer who handled the live being, Marcos Churiz, died a couple of weeks later. So, who are you, what's your name, and what's your background, professionally, and your education? My name is Armando Fortunato Filho. I'm a forensic physician, which is forensic medicine. I'm a public health physician. I'm an occupational physician. And I also have a bachelor's degree in law.

3:03:12I'm married to a Peruvian psychoanalyst and have two daughters who are also doctors. First of all, I would like to thank you for your invitation and congratulate you on your audience. I confess that in hundreds of interviews I've given throughout my life, I've never initially participated in a prayer before beginning an interview, as you did with all of us present here. So, may God bless us. Jesus Christ said, I am the way, the light, the truth, and the life. So, may we be blessed in this interview, and may we bring the truth here. Amen. Well said. Let me ask you, on the day, January 1996, you lived in Virginia.

3:04:06Obviously, I want to speak to you about the autopsy of Marco Scheresi. But on the day or the week of what had happened, had you heard of anything going on in Virginia when it came to UFOs, alien entities being treated at the hospital, anything like that? When the body of soldier Marco Scheresi arrived, there was no mention of contact with extraterrestrials. The body was sent for autopsy, for investigation into a possible professional error, because he was a soldier in the state military police of Minas Gerais. And because he had an infection, it seems that a drainage procedure, a small surgery, was performed by a doctor within the military police battalion.

3:04:56And because the illness progressed very rapidly, very abruptly, in a few days, the commanding colonel of the military police requested an investigation into the cause of death of that soldier to improve the investigation because he didn't understand how a military police doctor could let a soldier die.

3:05:21We did the autopsy, there was an incision wound. It was probably a drainage procedure for an infection, a boil, an infection in the left armpit area. And this was the only lesion that was found. We collected blood samples, fragments of liver, stomach and lung tissue and sent them to the laboratory of Dr. Antonio Batista Macuco Janini, a renowned pathologist in our city, who was also a forensic pathologist in Rio de Janeiro, but in Varginha he worked as a pathologist. He had his own laboratory and is a very well-known scientific figure in Brazil. Dr. Janini issued a report stating that he died from a pulmonary infection that caused septicemia, which is a generalized infection.

3:06:20Regarding the bacteria that were found, I'm leaving Dr. Giannini's report here for you. And what we have recently learned is that this soldier may have participated in the capture of an extraterrestrial being. And Dr. Giannini also personally reports to all of us. Dr. Giannini said recently, last year, that the bacteria found in the material examined in the laboratory is not common in our country. and that the bacteria was extremely virulent and which are very progressive, deviating from the norm of everyday practice in Brazilian medicine. And that he did not rule out, given the circumstances that had come to him, that the bacterium could be an alien bacterium.

3:07:25So, I'm saying here that I personally haven't had contact with extraterrestrials neither has Dr. Giannini, but the bacteria found in the soldier is leading us to this conclusion. Indeed, because Marco Eliscerese's sister said that he had contact with an ET from Vagina.

3:07:51So, we have a new situation today. After 30 years, Dr. Giannini is suggesting and requesting authorization from the court. It's not easily done. The first difficulty is getting the court to approve the exhumation of the soldier's remains, of soldier Elie Cherez's remains, and whether the family would agree to it, to investigate, if possible, DNA testing, to better study the bacteria that caused this infection in such a young soldier who had vigor and was healthy. Dr. Armando, sorry to interrupt. I want to just ask you, point blank, what do you think caused this infection? Do you personally believe that Marco Chirassi apprehended this alien being and he received an infection from it that is more exotic than any sort of infection that a person would get through something more ordinary.

3:09:02The infection he had is extremely rare, not impossible. But its virulence and severity caught Dr. Zanini's attention. a scratch or some sort of contact with an extraterrestrial shouldn't be ruled out. I would say that the first possibility, the first diagnostic hypothesis, is still a secondary effect of surgery, an infection in the axillary skin region, hydrodonitis. But also, as a second hypothesis, given the circumstances I've heard from the testimony of Dr. Italo, the recent anatomopathological evaluation by Dr. Antonio Macucu-Janini and the history of Marco Elixerenzi's sister, one should consider the possibility of post-contact contamination with an extraterrestrial during a military police operation, him being a soldier in the Minas Gerais State Military Police.

3:10:11Is there any other plausible story? Had he received surgery before this happened at all? No. He was a vigorous and healthy soldier who a few days prior had a skin lesion drained at the military police medical clinic. And it's possible that the infection spread, that's the first hypothesis. But the second is that he contracted the infection from a scratch, from contact with an extraterrestrial being. I say this after so many years, based on the testimony, I'll say it again, based on Dr. Giannini's new testimony, from a laboratory standpoint, an anatomopathological standpoint, from the testimony of Marco Elicerenzi's sister and also from the account of Dottorita Louventurelli, who claims to have seen the AT at the regional hospital in southern Minas Gerais.

3:11:13How many weeks between Marco Elicerenzi transporting this alien being and him passing away and you doing the autopsy? How many weeks? I don't have the exact dates for the supposed operation and infection. I know he had an outpatient surgical procedure, not in a hospital, Marco Ilicerenzi, at the military police battalion, on an outpatient basis, but that this infection lasted around 12 or 14 days. He went through three or four doctors complaining about lumbosciatica, a kind of back pain, and then taking antibiotics and any inflammatory drugs, but the infection spread and developed into septicemia, causing death from generalized infection, pneumonia, and septicemia.

3:12:07Had he told anybody else at the hospital, I think what's happened to me is actually from this ET that I had to deal with? Did he tell anybody else this? No. From what I've seen, only his sister suspects he had contact with her, But no doctor. I only received a body without a history to investigate, whether there was professional error or negligence, anything, any malpractice on the part of a fellow doctor. What about Cesario, the cardiologist? Dr. Cesario was on duty at the medical service that operated like an emergency room. And the soldier had been there a few days, not sure if it was two or three times, complaining of back pain, which was actually an infection that was progressing.

3:13:05Dr. Cesario treated him like that. I don't know if it was once, twice or three times. and also confirms, albeit indirectly, that the infection was indeed surprising and progressed in a very abrupt, very rapid manner. I believe Cesario said that essentially Marco Scheresi had been telling him over and over again that this was actually possibly from this ET being that he had apprehended, but I think this is from, because he goes yeah, he said that this stuff had happened because he was concerned about saving his own life, according to his sister. Yeah. So he's like, he said it, and then he goes, according to his sister.

3:13:47I was like, hmm, okay. Yeah. If I was dying, I'd be like, here's what happened. I don't know. Yeah. Very, very interesting. And which hospital is this that you were at where you did the autopsy? The coroner's office, which in Brazil is called IML, the Forensic Medical Institute, is linked to the civil police of the states and provinces. And it's the Criminal Investigation Police that investigates crimes, preparing police reports, which are handled by the chiefs of police. So in this exceptional case, a commander of the military police barracks opened a military police investigation, because the lieutenant doctor, who performed the surgery, the drainage, was part of the medical staff.

3:14:40As a private civilian who I'm sure has many friends in Virginia, did you hear other stories just organically come up around people seeing crafts or bodies or anything like that? Yes. If you walk throughout the city, there are always reports of people who have seen spaceships people who have seen lights in the sky moving quickly, just like spaceships. But sometimes they're confused with comets, other times they're drones. But in Brazil, it's a country that receives many visits from these objects. It's a privileged country in that sense, but there are always reports. And the more you talk about it, the more people hear about it, and start saying, as Dr.

3:15:35Ito said very well, now people are starting to talk about it more frequently, you know? If you had to put a number on the amount of friends or even just people you've encountered who've witnessed either the UFO or the body, what number would you put? And I realize that I'm putting you on the spot here and that it doesn't have to be an exact perfect number. Very few friends. because, for example, Carlos, who said he saw the craft with a very strong and trustworthy testimony, he doesn't live in Varginha. Unlike Dottor Italo, who we're familiar with as doctors, a person with credibility, with a history of many years of service to neurology, to brain surgery in Varginha and nearby towns, people with a reputation.

3:16:32So, their testimonies are very powerful, and which makes me give credibility to the possibility brought up by Dr. Janini, that this bacteria that was found with the soldier Marco Elicerezi, whether it's alien, this backs the testimony of the girls, who are now ladies in Varginha, who are also reputable people. And it makes one believe in the testimony of Carlos himself, who saw the craft. Today, just this morning, talking to, and this is forever's listening at home, with the scientist, Mr. Hau, right? Hau Puthoff. Who has various studies in the field of physics, in the...

3:17:27I mean, he's a born scientist, provides services to various entities. I made the suggestion, Dr. Giannini wants to investigate this bacterium, if possible, in the remains of Marco di Cerenzi, to better investigate this bacterium, whether it may have been combined with a bacterium from another planet in the Universe, outside planet Earth. But the location where the spacecraft is believed to have crashed also needs to be studied. because metallic residues, things that are not common in our universe, should be studied more thoroughly. And that's why I asked Dr. Giannini today, who was in talks with other scientist friends, about the possibility of undertaking this study or not.

3:18:13Because the listener here wants the truth. He expects the truth from us. We have no vested interest. Our only interest here is to tell the truth. We are very small in this universe. There's so much to be discovered out there. And from what we feel, from what Dottor Yitalou perceived, extraterrestrials are at peace, they live in peace. They're curious, but they live in peace. And can contribute a lot to us. So, since man has reached the Moon, why not advance a little further? And of course, it's no longer just the Varginha ET. He is a Brazilian ET, an American ET, a Chinese ET, a Russian ET. He belongs to all of us, to the planet.

3:19:03And why not investigate this better for ufology to advance further, right? Even recently, didn't you speak to friends who had seen the craft? There are people who have seen things like that. When James Fox returns to Varginha, I'll introduce him to another three or four people who report report, having seen spaceships, lights. Now, you see the difference, right? Some say the spaceship had lights. Our professor here, who gave the testimony, Carlos, said it was tubular and didn't have lights, right? So, there are things that sometimes involve two spaceships, you know? So, the witnesses are that common, though.

3:19:44Like, James, how many witnesses do you think you've spoken to, total? Well, when I went downtown town to the town square, I found a number of people that either saw, I mean, within an hour, I probably had 12 different people saying different things. One of them saw excessive, a couple of them saw excessive military activity they'd never seen before, military trucks everywhere. If you were to add up everybody though and put an approximate number on it. Oh God. And, and, and a witness is anybody who's seen a ship or an alien body. ship or alien body uh ship maybe 12 to 15 i met another one recently who said it's out over the hospital maybe 15 and then the alien body i think it's up to five wow yeah it's pretty amazing yeah one of that one of that includes the chief of police i don't know any other case where you have that many witnesses and the three girls eat hello well the nurse that would have been six so it could be six that saw the yeah can you speak a little bit to italo's credentials and kind of bona fide's background because i think having a neurosurgeon come forward and say he was face to face with an alien being for three to four minutes is just going to be a so earth shattering for so many people but b i think very hard for them to compute and i think they're going to often try to throw the kitchen sink of skepticism against this case.

3:21:14What's your experience of Italo, and what do you know about him and his reputation and his skills as a neurosurgeon? Dr. Italo is a very experienced doctor, has a lot of credibility, very honorable. to give this recent account of having personally seen and witnessed an extraterrestrial. And one of the reasons I'm here is because he's the one who gave the testimony. So I trust in him. Now, of course, it's not common. Maybe if it were me on that day and I had seen the ET, I would have told my wife, my colleagues, would have called the hospital and said, look at this, how interesting! Each with their own reasons, each with their own particularities and singularities.

3:22:12And I respect that. I don't depend on a private practice to make a living. He's a neurologist with a private practice. And this could really be a reason for losing clients in a private practice, with people thinking he was crazy, that he was seeing things. It could harm him professionally. And he justified his reasons. So that's plausible, it's understandable. But it's not common. I think perhaps most doctors or any citizen would have said, look folks, there was a different situation today inside the hospital, but we have to respect it. And Marco Charisi's family to this day maintains that his injury was probably due to an alien being and that he was saying towards the end of his life constantly that he was worried that he was sick because he had apprehended this being and held him.

3:23:14and apparently the alien was full of kind of this greasy, oily substance, and that might have gotten on to him and he was asking questions about what might occur if you come into contact with that because he was not feeling well. So his sister's testimony regarding the virulence of the bacteria, this leads us to believe that he may have participated in an operation to capture the CT. But that's not what I received through the Colonel who requested the autopsy. He's a forensic doctor. But years later, that's what has been reaching us. And there are testimonies saying that from Marco Elicerenzi's sister.

3:23:59And also because of the evidence regarding the characteristics of the bacteria that was found in the soldier. and a new reassessment by Dr. João Batista Macuco Janine. What did the colonel say when he tasked you to do the autopsy? What did he share with you about the details? He didn't speak to me. The request was for a written coroner autopsy of the soldier. And it's not common for someone who normally requests an autopsy to be a police chief. It arrived, and they can also request it, just as the public prosecutor's office can request it for an autopsy. We performed the autopsy, awaited the lab tests, and about 20 days later we released the report, after the material from Lotto Gianini arrived.

3:24:49But I didn't speak with the commander of the military police. The autopsy was done to investigate an error, a supposed professional error, which was later not proven. Professional error. It was a progression of the medical complication. The doctor who performed this minor procedure, an excellent professional, has a very good reputation in the city. There were no complications. The progression of the disease was extremely unfavorable. Tell me about Dr. Giannini and his background. I think a lot of people found it very powerful in James' movie when you have a guy who's kind of known as the godfather of medical science in the local region, and he's coming out and he's speculating.

3:25:29He literally says he thinks that a puncture wound from the nail of the ET is what caused Marco Chirisi's death. He sent it, and I've already left it with you, signed. He couldn't be here today because of health issues. He's almost 90 years old. But he's keeping up to speed with us. And made it a point to send us signed and authenticated document so it could be read, and I already left it to your care. But who is Dr. Janine? He arrived in Varginha about 50 years ago, probably 45 or 50 years ago. He came from Rio de Janeiro and Brasília. He was a university professor, a pathologist and a forensic doctor in the state of Rio de Janeiro.

3:26:18He arrived in Varginha and set up a diagnostic and laboratory service, a Propedutic Institute, which serves practically 90 % of its patients through the SUS, the Unified Health System. He serves the public health service. He's a reference for doctors working in the public health system. Today, he and his son, along with their entire staff, serve more than 100 cities in the region. So, he is a reference in quality. I'm not going to advertise, but it's true. He's a man unconcerned with monetary values. He values quality in his work as a scientist, seeking excellence in care and quality. And for us doctors, he always has been, and still is, a reference.

3:27:06Because he's a true scientist. And in this case, every time it was me, Dr. José da Frota, Dr. Ulisses Fernando, the forensic doctors there, when we had a more delicate case, when we had doubts, we would call him. And he'd be very willing, because Varginha is a small town, everything is nearby. I'll be there in 10 minutes, I'll assist with the autopsy. And he would assist, which sometimes meant performing the procedure, collecting materials. Said he'd take them to his laboratory and giving the results in a week. And sometimes during the autopsy itself, during the examination, as a great pathologist, he would already give diagnoses.

3:27:45So, not only in forensic medicine and in the area of autopsies, laboratories, biopsies, he's a huge reference. So, he has our respect and we are very grateful to him. The doctors of Varginha have great respect and gratitude for Dr. João Batista Macucuzanini. Was there anything else about the body outside of the bizarre bacteria and Marco Chirici's stated story that he kept repeating with his family that makes you think maybe there was some alien involvement? Was there a smell to it? Was there anything else about it? I hadn't met the soldier when he was alive. The first time I saw him, it was a body ready to be autopsied.

3:28:30I never met him. I did meet some relatives, but not him. I had never seen him. But the sister's testimony, which is questionable, it said that maybe he spoke to the doctors who tended to him at the hospital. But I don't have the testimony of those doctors that tended to him. But I heard his sister saying, which was recorded recently, that he was indeed involved in the capture of the ET. So it's a puzzle. There are several moments we have there. People close to Varginha, who saw a ship the size of a bus heading towards the city in those days. For instance, take the testimony of the girls who saw the ET during the day.

3:29:21Today they are ladies. It's been 30 years. There were girls then. Today they are ladies. You see the testimony of Professor Carlos, a geography teacher, who gives a powerful account of having actually seen the spacecraft and its wreckage, and that he even touched it, but the police took it from him and ordered it handed over to the army. You also see the testimony of Dr. Italo. So this makes us believe, in fact, in the existence of extraterrestrials on Earth. Not the Varginha ET, but this is a subject that interests the United States, Japan, Brazil, China, Russia. It's a matter of greater interest to humanity.

3:30:04We have to search more and advance further. Have you done any thinking about theoretically why this bacteria would look like bacteria occasionally found from wounds or occasionally found in animals and pets, but is very rare in humans and very rare to kill a human and to be so virulent? Do you ever think about, you know, if these beings are coming from, you know, thousands of light years away, why they would contain any sort of bacteria that might match ours? Have you gone that far in your thinking? That's an interesting question. This bacteria exists on Earth. It's extremely rare. But it exists, to our knowledge, this type of Staphylococcus.

3:30:54But also, the soldier, I mean, the alien or extraterrestrial, came into contact with animals at the zoo in Varginha. Some dead animals were found at the zoo. I wasn't aware of this at the time, that some dead animals were found at the zoo. Which begs the question, could it be that the extraterrestrial could have been contaminated, coming in contact with the animals and then being captured by the soldier, and therefore the soldier being contaminated by the extraterrestrial with the bacteria that was in some zoo animal? Or is the bacteria, in fact, alien? You know? That's why we're asking, and I brought this up with Dr.

3:31:39Howe this morning, that the CIA, NASA should support us with all the knowledge they already possess, with all their wisdom, technology and diagnostic capabilities. Brazilian medicine is very advanced, but American medicine also has its particularities. Perhaps the two of them together could conduct a more thorough scientific study of this bacteria if the exhumation is authorized, and also of the material that must have residues where the spacecraft fell. I posed this challenge to Dr. Howell, asking you, the American people, to help us. Who told you about the E.T.'s interaction with animals at the zoo?

3:32:19This is already public knowledge. This has already been reported. James Fox should know about it. I don't know which animal died. Maybe James. Fox. Maybe knows. There were animals that died at the zoo during that week. So, James, I'm curious. Do you know what the nature of that interaction was? I don't think I included that part in the film because there's so many different aspects. There were sightings later. They were like, now I'm coming to the conclusion, I think there were like a lot more beings than what were initially reported that were seen. And what did you hear about the beings? Well, we interviewed the, I guess what do you call a zoologist or the guy that, yeah.

3:32:55Yeah, or a zookeeper maybe? Yeah, he was a little more than that. So, okay, a zoologist would be like the scientist. Yeah, and he talked about that their cause of death was completely unknown, never seen anything like it. He said it all on camera. Marco Leal could tell you more. But do we know anything about, like, the specific animals that the ET interacted with? Was it a cattle mutilation situation? Were they, like, playing in a playpen or something? They were exposed to some sort of bacteria that killed them and that he'd never really seen it. But again, I'd have to—I have an interview with a guy.

3:33:25I just have to reflect back on it. So those animals ended up dead. Yes. Were they typical cattle mutilations with the blood missing and incisions? No, no, no. More like just got exposed to some sort of bacteria that killed them. Got exposed to some sort of bacteria. So that would point towards the bacteria maybe not being animal. But it's just what fascinates me so much about the bacteria is that it's something that's rare but exists on Earth. Well, here's what Dr. Janini told me, and he told me this on camera. He'd never seen anything like it before or after. Is that your experience as well? Never seen anything like this bacteria before or after, Dr.

3:34:06Armando? My medical practice is more focused on companies, occupational medicine, and more on private practice. My colleagues who work in the intensive care unit, the infectious disease specialists, don't see this type of infection, this kind of bacteria, on a daily basis. It exists, but it's extremely rare. And normally this infection is treated with antibiotics. And in this case, despite being a young, strong, vigorous soldier, the bacteria led to his death in just a few days, less than 10 days. So that's why this bacteria is different. It's not common, and it's very virulent and highly lethal.

3:34:53Sounds like the anomalous component of the bacteria is just how virulent and lethal it was. I think it was like the term he used was he'd never seen an advanced bacteria of this strain behave the way it did ever before or since. And even Cesario, who was working on him, was like, I threw the kitchen sink. It should have, all the antibiotics I gave him should have saved his life, but it didn't do anything. Because I've never seen anything like it before or since either. So it was an adaptation or an evolution of a particular bacteria on Earth, but that they haven't seen on Earth that type of evolutions.

3:35:27It's the best way he described it to me, as a neophyte. Now I'm offering criticism of the commander. I don't know if he's alive or not, nor do I know his name. Constructive criticism, of course, of the commander of the military police barracks. Because a medical complication, which of course must be investigated, but not with such a fervorous desire to perform a witch hunt, as was done with a fellow doctor, a medical attendant who worked at the barracks, who spent years having to explain this to the justice system, and that it was confirmed that there was no professional error or unfavorable outcome.

3:36:10An extremely atypical case, a progressive illness with pulmonary complications, very rapid, which thoroughly stressed his doctor and his family. Of course, he was acquitted later. But the commander went a bit overboard in his investigations with this soldier, because the bacteria was not common, so there was no professional error. There was a complication, an unfavorable evolution. in a clinical case and a strong soldier. But it should be investigated. Dottor Giannini is correct in requesting authorization from the justice system for new studies of this bacteria if it exists. But the problem is that it may still be present in the remains.

3:37:03There may still be surprises. It's remarkable to hear people consistently of your stature, credentials, academic background and well-spokenness, just consistently talk about friends who've seen beings and crafts or talk about anomalous bacteria. You know, I think this is a really remarkable case. And I've said this with the other two guests today who I'm honored to have spoken with, but it's just, I think the modern Roswell, it's the, it's the modern, uh, case that really is just there's so many witnesses. It's an overwhelming amount of evidence and beyond any sort of threshold of a doubt that something occurred here.

3:37:50And I agree with you. I think it's very worthy of investigation. And so I really appreciate you coming out, Dr. Armando. And I guess my final question would be, has this at all affected your faith at all? You started off with a prayer, you invoked Jesus Christ. Does this affect your worldview in any way? Or has this affected you kind of emotionally?

3:38:13No, it didn't change me. I'm a Christian man, a doctor with great dedication to the public health system. I was the municipal health secretary during the pandemic in our city. I have experience in public health, occupational medicine and forensic medicine. So you see, my life, my father was a pharmacist, my mother was a primary school teacher, and I had great difficulty to study at a federal university, a public university. So I've always used medicine as a way to serve. I believe that this Varginha case deserves further study, but the work that our friend James Fox has been doing, this investigative work he has been doing, is remarkable and deserves our applause.

3:39:06and Varginha is very grateful to him. Now, I extend the invitation I made today to Dr. Hau, who is this physicist, extremely dedicated to science, and to you as well, Jesse, to go to Varginha. If the ET went to Varginha, why can't you go as well? Get to know our reality. It's a pleasant city, a city with a wonderful climate, welcoming people, and continue these investigations with James Fox's team. You have a lot to contribute, and you ask extremely intelligent questions here today. You're even acting like a police detective investigating us. Congratulations. Thank you very much for your work.

3:39:53Well, when you put it like that, I can't say no. If an ET being traveled from thousands of light years away, I can certainly travel probably under a thousand miles. But I'm very grateful for you. I really appreciate you coming here and all your kind words. And you're clearly very sincere and earnest. And was there anything else strange about the bacteria that's worthy of noting? No. What I want to bring attention to is that Dr. Giannini brought up the possibility, a year ago of performing the exhumation of the remains of the soldier to see if it's possible to trace the bacteria, to investigate it more thoroughly, and with regards to its virulence, its DNA, that is, if it is possible, but to study the remains, rather the DNA of the remains of the soldier.

3:40:54but wasn't there something about it i don't understand yeah because because i heard it yesterday yeah uh the dr illa was talking about it as well that there was some sort of genetic it looked like there's some sort of genetic engineering done to the to the bacteria i you know i it was was there some sort of genetic engineering who is the professor of the subject Maybe he can even talk to us via video about it in person. He also gave a statement that's really good. It's better to talk to Dr. Janine. I'll pass it on. We'll talk to him. He gave a really good statement. Because, James, you think the bacteria might have been manipulated or edited in some way.

3:41:33I'm just telling you what was told to me. I'm not a scientist, but he said he's done thousands and thousands of these things. He's never seen any bacteria behave in the way that it behaved. And I believe he said it was a strain that's found on Earth, rarely, but that it behaved in a way that he'd never seen bacteria. It was an evolution of a bacteria that he'd never seen on Earth. Amazing. Okay, well, to be continued. High virulence, high pathogenicity, with very rapid lethality. And this is coming from the Minister of Health, who was appointed to basically protect Varginia during the pandemic.

3:42:13So obviously you have, I think, the background to say such things. The pandemic. Yes. Three, four years ago. Dr. Armando, thank you. Really appreciate you. James, in typical James Fox form, has sacrificed himself. We were going to do a one on one interview, but we're kind of pressed for time. You can get me any time. Who cares? Well, I just want to close out in saying that your selflessness just generally in this field is extremely rare. I think it's the reason that I always, when people ask, you know, are we ever going to get like concrete evidence? I say, you know, I'm not sure, but I hope James gets it.

3:42:56If we do, because you are doggedly persistent. You've been back to Brazil over the past 15 years, multiple times a year. I was there three times last year and I'll be there again in a week. It's incredible. And you, again, because we sat down a few weeks ago, you saying, you know, just interview them. is very typical of your orientation towards all of this stuff, which is always give it away, give it to the community. It's for the world. And so I truly, I can't thank you enough because you, you teed all of this off and this is, this is going to be a beautiful piece and hopefully new information for the Western world on this.

3:43:40You know, there's not much more than I think, you know, I can do beyond your amazing documentary, but I think seeing them in kind of a long form podcast format with another, you know, semi-trusted voice, I think, you know, we'll be helpful in what you're doing in D.C. as well with all of them. I think we'll hopefully just add fuel to the fire and momentum to this whole cause. So grateful to you and Aline who's here as well. And yeah, I don't even know what to say. And go watch Moment of Contact. And go watch both moments of contact. Go watch this latest one is incredible. The footage you got is just remarkable, especially with Italo Venturelli, but also with Dr.

3:44:25Giannini, who you work closely with. You have all of these guys who you cannot, their credentials and stature and backgrounds are unimpeachable. And you have them in tears, broken down about this experience. And like you said, you're talking about 15 to 20 total witnesses if you're talking about ships and bodies. So I'm so, so grateful for you. Oh, hey, I appreciate it. I appreciate your contribution, your continued contribution, and your continued investigations and support. We're in this together.

3:45:07Okay, Marco, Jesse, I love you. Oh, my God. Everybody's very happy here, Jesse. I love it.