Joe Rogan: The Truth About Aliens (He Finally Says It)

28:18Like, we don't know how much money was spent. We don't know how much lying to Congress there was. We have no idea how many felonies there were. We don't have no idea. Let's assume that crash retrieval programs were real and that back engineering programs were successful. So you're not going to give this stuff evenly to all these different defense contractors. So if you give one defense contractor one object and all of a sudden they have this massive advantage and then the other defense contractor winds up going under as many of them have gone out of business, Well, now you have a major lawsuit on your hands.

28:49You know, you have all sorts of and then probably people are going to go to jail if it's a just legal system. A hundred percent. Yeah. And for I think the cynics out there who might just want to put a minus sign against anybody coming from the intelligence world and saying things, we're not even necessarily being idealistic about their motivations. We're just saying that it's probably national security runs the day and that this might be the Manhattan Project 2.0. If you think about it, the first Manhattan Project was payload potency. It was bigger and bigger bombs. And there's even a scene in Oppenheimer where he's criticizing Teller because he's like, there is no target big enough for the H-bomb's way too big.

29:29And so beyond that, it's all about payload delivery. It's all about the, you know, ICBMs into stealth fighters into whatever the hell they're working with now. And if they do have this technology, obviously they're going to open it up. And as much as I can be cynical and anybody who's into UFOs is probably cynical about the Intel world. It kind of makes sense that they'd let this stuff out now because there is this arms race or whatever. There's a race going on with both. Let's assume that stories are correct and that back engineering is real. Let's assume that they have recovered crafts. So there is a race with that.

30:06But then maybe even more critically and completely connected is the AI race. Because I feel like that is the legitimate gateway to the cosmos. I feel like when we achieve sentience with artificial general superintelligence, when it has the ability to make better versions of itself, when it has the ability to devise new methods of power, new ways of using resources that we never even imagined, just like we have now that they never imagined in the 1400s, you know? And I think it's going to happen very, very quickly. So if there is a back engineering program and maybe there's some hurdles that we just can't get over, like how did they do this?

30:53Like how is it possible to do that? well, AI is probably going to figure out a possible way that it could be done and what possible inventions could be made to facilitate this possible thing. And they'll probably just go ahead and start doing it. And when you have AI and then you have the incomprehensible power of quantum computing, which is so baffling, it's so baffling that you go, wait a minute, what the fuck did you just say? One of the more recent ones, I believe it's the Google one, They solved an equation that would take the world's supercomputers. I think it was 2.6 billion years to solve.

31:35And it solved it in a matter of minutes. It's so crazy. And then the willow chip, they say, the multiverse has to exist or whatever for it. What does that mean? The only way for it to solve this problem, Mark Andreessen said it on my podcast. He said, the equation is so difficult to solve that if you took every atom in the universe and converted it to a supercomputer, the universe would die of heat death before it would solve this equation and it solved it in minutes. So like, what are we even talking about? Now imagine that being connected to artificial general super intelligence, which is essentially a digital god.

32:13You're going to make this thing that makes a better version of this thing. It's going to be exponential. It's going to happen very rapidly. Well, what's the end of that? What's the end of that is all powerful, all-knowing. And if you really want to get weird, that might be how God gets formed. I mean, that literally, like God might be a real thing. That might be how God gets formed. And that might be the whole reason why human beings have curiosity and this insatiable desire for technological innovation. I mean, not just to stay alive, not just to make better stuff, but this is why, because that, if you just follow it out to its natural course, that's going to lead to an artificial life.

32:53Yeah. I've heard you say that a lot before that like our consumptive patterns are almost built in to want more and more and more. And then we have to produce more and more in step. And we're like creating this God outside of ourselves. Like think about materialism. It's foolishness. You have a finite lifespan and you have people in their eighties, like trying to acquire immense wealth when they already have immense wealth. Like Warren Buffett's still in the game you know what i mean like he's worth billions of dollars he's in his 80s and he's still out there trading and moving like what is that about why would you want more stuff why would you want more money and more stuff because nothing fuels technological innovation like the market and in order for the market to be successful you have to be obsessed like i have the iphone 16 and this motherfucker is starting to mess up on me because the 17's out the battery's a lot slower It's like it burns through the battery quicker.

33:53Sometimes it glitches on me. I'm like, you didn't glitch for a whole year, bitch. It's like it's wired in that you want the newest one. You want the latest one. And Apple's been accused of that. Planned obsolescence. Yeah, and it's true. They've admitted to it. And they've done it under the guise of, oh, well, you know, when the older ones, the batteries decay. We're trying to preserve the battery. Shut up. Just let the battery die, bitch. Don't monkey with my phone. but it's like this I have an iPhone 11 that I've had forever and I keep it because a good friend of mine who died he left me a voicemail and it's on that oh man and that phone works great like it works the same yeah yeah yeah it works I don't need a new phone yeah yeah but I'm going to get a new one every year because I'm a dumbass and we're all dumbasses and we're all buying the newest TVs and the newest laptops and oh the new ThinkPad came out with a touch screen and you're gonna keep doing that and that If you just follow that, if everyone's doing that, what does that do?

34:49It makes better stuff. If you looked at the human race from an outside perspective, if you were a life form from somewhere else, like, okay, what are they doing? What is the predominant, what is the dominant life force on this planet do? It makes better things. That's all it does. It's like a worker bee that doesn't know why it's making a hive. It's just making better things all the time, obsessed with making better things. You should stop your need for accumulating objects and stop your need for, you know, a big car and a big house and find out something that you actually love to do and figure out a way to do it for a living.

35:25I had a very smart guy named Matthew Pines on my podcast, and he said he was speaking to some like CIA guy. And the CIA guy was like, you know, it's a triangle. AI, quantum and the grush stuff. That was it. and we were you know in an environment where i couldn't and want to press too much into the issue and you know i didn't have it wasn't like this sort of sit down where it's like go for hours um so that was basically where where it sort of landed um and i've been chewing on that for a while you know ai quantum and the grush stuff that's wild and do you think all of this is like and he was like if all of those three things seem to like converge it's like this kind of consciousness apotheosis thing kind of what you're saying yes do you think there's something happening where all these trends are converging now simultaneously and it's not a coincidence like we're ufo disclosure is happening at the time of deep fakes it's so weird right i think that's all on purpose yeah i think that's a part of the fun of the the experience that we're going through you know Because it is a tangible experience.

36:35I believe life is real. I believe this table is real. I believe in reality, but I don't think reality is as clearly defined as we like to believe it is. I think reality is dependent a lot on consciousness in some sort of a strange, indescribable way to a conscious person. I don't think it's very binary. I don't think it's ones and zeros. I think it's slippery. And I think it's dependent upon a lot of things. There's a lot going on. And it's also, I always wonder, what is my experience? What is my trip? What is my journey through this world? Why? Why do I have all these weird things that have happened to me that have led me to be who I am today?

37:28Like, is that a design? Because if it's not a design, well, if you wanted to make someone like me, that's how you do it. You do it exactly that way. But I want to pretend that, oh, this is all just, you know, it's like determinism versus free will. I think both. I think both are, they're intertwined. I don't think it's that clear. And I think your experience is very different than my experience. And all of our experiences are all tied in together. And I really believe, as strange as it sounds, it's towards this one goal. And I think this one goal is the advancement of the human species. And I think we all play a role just like microbes play a role in the environment and plants play a role in the environment.

38:18and so does sunlight and so does wind all these but you parse them out and you look at them as individuals you're like oh the wind does this and it carries the clouds but it's all together like an equation that's driving things in a very specific way and i i really believe that our trip that our experience is a very unique one the people that are living right now that are hearing this currently in the future, they might look back at this and go, boy, they fucking, they were so wrong or they nailed it. You know, one of those, but I think we are all purposely building towards something. And I think that something is, it has the echoes of religious texts.

39:05I think that the, you know, the origin story of the human race from various religions. I think that is, that is, that these all these stories where there's interactions with like the book of enoch the watchers that came down and bred with men and created the nephilim like doesn't that sound like genetic engineering like if bread with like had sex with men what what do you mean like what is that so you mean take their genes and introduce them to ours where If you're a dummy who lived 6 ,000 years ago and you're trying to recall a 5 ,000-year-old story, that's probably how it presents itself. If you've had 5 ,000 years of barbarism since the Younger Dryas impact, so you have advanced civilizations, which is what I believe.

39:57I'm in the Randall Carlson, Graham Hancock school. I don't think this is our first go around. I think ancient Egypt is a great testament to that. I think there was some sort of an advanced civilization that was on a different pathway than we are. We're on this electronic internal combustion engine pathway. They were on a different pathway. But I think they achieved a similar, if not greater, level of technology and the ability to manipulate matter. Just what they've done with the pyramids. People try. They do their best to come up with some explanations. They're all dumb. Every explanation sucks.

40:34They suck. And they hate it when you say that and they get angry and people were smart back then. Sure. But only these people? Only these people were like 6 ,000 years ago. We agree that people were dumb and they didn't even have steel yet. Like, what are we doing? And the contrast, the stark contrast between Zahi Hawass, who you had on, the former minister of culture in Egypt, and somebody like a Randall Carlson or Graham Hancock, who are so articulate, so smart. And I think, you know, you're constantly, I think, playing down your intelligence. But I think because you can deal with stigma, because you can play with what other people consider misinformation, the whole world now thinks that Charles Manson was an MKUltra patient because you knew Greg Fitzsimmons, who knew Tom O 'Neill, which is crazy.

41:24So like in some ways, I think you're leading academia. Like, I think the Younger Dryas impact hypothesis, which was, I think, presented in 2007 for the first time, is now really starting to become more of an accepted thing. Before that, it was, you know, Luis Walter Alvarez saying that the dinosaurs, you know, due to a comet impact 66 million years ago, that was a thing. Nobody took him seriously. Right. And so in the stark contrast between a gatekeeper like Zahy was, which some people call your worst podcast of all time. It was the worst. Yeah. It was the worst. I discovered, I discovered, I discovered, I discovered, and I discovered major important things.

42:03Are they online? No, in my book. Are there photos of this? Of course, in my book. It's in my book. It's in my book. If you go to my book, I don't go online. Why do I have to go online? I go to my book. Can you kind of introduce me here in Houston? Excuse me? Can I introduce you in Houston? No, I cannot. Why? Because I'm very busy. Okay. I, unfortunately, I don't have any free time, sorry. It was the worst that we released. there's been some that were bad that we didn't release yeah um but um i think i think we're all here for a reason and um i think i think we're here to experience something something very strange and profound that and there's an event there's an event that we're building up to and i think that's why there's this focus on disclosure that's why this documentary hit so hard.

42:52That's why guys like Marco Rubio are sticking their neck out and Tulsi Gabbard and Rep Luna. She came on my podcast too. And she was telling me some stuff that was just like mind blowing. And she really got me to read the book of Enoch. She's like, you got to read that. So you have the Ethiopian Orthodox text, which has, I think, 88 books of the Bible in total. But in the Ethiopian Orthodox text, it's basically kind of like a mainline OG version of the Bible. And then sometime in the fourth century, there was actually a group that came together and they removed certain books. And the story goes that Revelations actually had replaced Enoch.

43:31And so it's interesting because when you're looking kind of full circle on, you know, you hear the stuff that some of these people are talking about. And then you see and you read the book of Enoch, which is a wild read. And then you look at kind of what our modern day description is of what angels and entities are versus what Enoch was seeing and reporting in his language and ability at that time. I just I think that there's a lot that brings you to then ask the question, well, why would they remove this information if it's truly written and part of the oldest Bible in the world? Why would they then take it out?

44:02And that could have easily been attached to the religious canon. But some rabbis disagreed with it because it didn't vibe with the Torah. so like let's chuck that one out but it's in the same lump of Dead Sea Scrolls they have the book of Isaiah which is which is really fascinating because Wes Huff when he was on my podcast explained to me that the book of Isaiah and that they found in the Dead Sea Scrolls is verbatim the same as the book of Isaiah that was a thousand years more recent whoa a thousand years so this was this was the oldest version that they thought was the oldest version and then they found the Dead Sea Scrolls version, which was a thousand years older, verbatim.

44:43Fascinating. Fascinating. And the Book of Enoch's in there. There you go. Like, what are they talking about? What are you talking about? The Watchers came down and they mated with humans and they created a race that was a giant race that destroyed everything and consumed everything. That sounds like us. Doesn't that sound like us? If you're some flimsy, tiny alien thing with no musculature and a large head and you make giants, you make football players, you make marauding Vikings, you know, that are just showing up in boats and hacking everybody to pieces. That's how you would describe them. Yep.

45:21You would describe them giants destroyed everything. Yes. It's all very weird stuff, man. And Enoch himself goes through this amazing personal transformation where he goes up to heaven, he walks with God, and then he turns into Metatron, this angel. And a lot of people think that's part of kind of a celestial ascent tradition. So you have celestial ascent traditions and various traditions and, you know, the wheels of Ezekiel. Or, you know, some people think in the book of Acts, Jesus does this or Paul has the thorn in the flesh where he sees God. And so maybe there's something around ascending up into this state and coming back down.

46:03And there's there's a translation function where it's hard to say, you know, once you've ascended, it's hard to say what you've seen. Like like in the rescue immortality key where like there's like a fight club around it or something. This is the fight club of the ancient world. Whatever happened there, no one talked about it under penalty of death. I mean, people went to Eleusis as human beings. And from what little testimony survived, again, because it's secret under penalty of death, they walked away thinking they were immortal. This all sounds really insane, I'm sure. Yeah, but I mean, you would have to have a fight club around it because no one's going to understand, nor are they going to take you seriously ever again if you start talking about these things.

46:40Yes. That's where I have a great benefit in being a professional fool. You know what I mean? I didn't get into podcasting as a professor. It's not like I was teaching something somewhere. I got into it because I was a comedian. So most of the early podcasts, it's literally just like this enormous gravity bong sitting on a table with webcams and like half the episodes we were obliterated out of our minds, had no idea what we were talking about. It's mostly just comedians. And we're just making each other laugh and having fun because we have our whole day free. All right. We have to work at night.

47:17We work at night. During the day, we write jokes. We hang out. And then we, you know, find other things to do. And one of my favorite things to do used to be to do radio. Like when you do a good radio show like Opie and Anthony back in New York, you'd hang around with a bunch of other comedians and it would be so much fun. And then we would do it in the green room sometimes. We started doing that first before we did the podcast. What we would do was, I think it was called Justin TV at the time. And so it was like a streaming platform. So Brian, my producer, would set up a laptop in the green room.

47:52And we would just fuck around in the green room because we were always making each other laugh. And it was always like a fun environment. We were getting silly before we were going on stage. And so we started streaming that. And then I said, we should just do a thing where we just sit down and just have comics and just do it like a radio show. And just for fun. And because I don't have to be taken seriously, I can entertain any idea. Also, another huge inspiration for me was Art Bell. Yeah. You know, I loved Coast to Coast with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Night. I loved that show because I used to go drive home to the comedy store at one o 'clock in the morning and he'd have some guy.

48:27He had a time traveler line. So, like, Art Bell, like, let anybody say, Art, I'm a werewolf. Interesting. Tell me more. He didn't go, get the fuck out of here, bitch. You're not a werewolf. He let people say crazy things and he entertained all the kooky things. And I loved that. When you have a thirst for human blood, is it like, I mean, what can you compare it to? Is it like when you want chocolate ice cream or even worse? It's even worse than that. So I was like very willing to, like Graham Hancock, I think was the first real guest that I had. Like other than comedian friends, it was me and my good friend, Duncan, Duncan Trussell.

49:08And Graham and I had been corresponding, I think through email. I had talked about his book, but this was back when no one even knew what podcasting was. It was so ridiculed. And it was just like little webcams and it was all like streaming on Ustream. And that was my first real guest. But, you know, I loved Fingerprints of the Gods and I wanted to, you know, I wanted to talk to the guy who made that book that like really made me reconsider what had happened with the human race and, you know, and how old our ancient civilizations might really be. They might go way back further than we think. Way back.

49:50Way back. Totally. And he's a great example of somebody. He'll incorporate stuff like Plato and myth into, you know, his study where it's like Meltwater Pulse 1b, 9600 BC. This was told at a mythos festival in 600 BC in Timaeus and Criteus, when Solon was at that temple and the priests told him the Atlantis story and how Atlantis was swallowed up by the sea in a single terrible day and night, he asked them, when did this happen? And they said 9 ,000 years ago. Now, immediately, that's a date we can convert into our calendar. 9 ,000 years ago in 600 BC is a date we call 9 ,600 BC, which give or take 20 years is 11 ,600 years ago.

50:39And just as the younger Dryas began cataclysmically with a sea level rise 12 ,800 years ago, it also ended cataclysmically with an even more massive sea level rise 11 ,600 years ago. And that massive sea level rise has a name. You'll just call it Meltwater Pulse 1b. It's well-documented. Nobody disputes that there was a Meltwater Pulse 1b, and it raised sea levels massively, literally overnight. And you actually look back the historical record and we wouldn't even think that Troy, the Peloponnesian War was, we'd think that was mythical. It was just Homer and Herodotus, but this guy Heinrich Schleiman decided to take that seriously and he found it in Anatolia, modern day Turkey.

51:22Yes. And so the - Modern day Turkey is wild. It's weird, right? Because if you look at ancient Turkey, like if you look at like Baalbek and Lebanon, you look at those areas like a lot of people think turkey where gobekli tepe they think that might have been the origin of civilization that you know it wasn't egypt like it predates even that it might have been there well they're creating sundials there like it's so sophisticated how about how weird is it that that part of the world that the middle east is where you get all this sumerian stuff which is just i mean i watched a whole documentary the other night on the Sumerian kings list, which is just like, what is this?

52:02Because it's both accurate and mythical at the same time. So you have people that are kings that live 40 ,000 years plus, and you have eight kings that are documented and some of them are real. Some of them are real and the time that they reigned corresponded with a real normal biological human life. But then you have ones that were before the great flood that don't. They're really long and crazy. And you just go, OK, what was going on? And it sounds insane that people could live for 30 ,000 years, but it doesn't. Here's why it doesn't. What we can do now, just a rudimentary stuff that we can do now, prolongs physical health far beyond where it ever was before.

52:50And then when you're talking about stuff like hyperbaric chamber therapy, there was a study out of Jerusalem, I believe it was, where they did a protocol where they put people on hyperbaric treatment. There was 90 days. They had to do 60 sessions in 90 days. At the end of those 60 sessions, they measured their telomeres. Their telomeres, which is a direct sign of cellular aging. the shorter your telomeres are the closer you are to death their telomeres had lengthened that was no way yes that was commensurate with a 20 year difference in their age what yes lengthened i didn't know you could lengthen telomeres i've done it i've done that therapy i did that exact therapy yeah yeah i've done it a couple times but i did it at the i was like okay let me give this a chance and i went to this hyperbaric place and i it was so boring just running there for 90 Let's go get me out of those.

53:47Thankfully, you can use your phone, but that fucking fully sketches me out. Because if there's a spark that goes off, then you blow. People have died in those things. Oh, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A child died in one fairly recently because of static from the blanket ignited the oxygen. Oh, God. Very scary stuff. Because you're in a super high-oxygenated, high-pressure environment that's equal to what I do is two altitudes. So two Earth altitudes, and you do it for 90 minutes. So we know about that. We also know about NMN and a lot of the work that David Sinclair has been doing out of Harvard. We know that they've been able to take mice and make mice behave like younger mice by switching their blood to the blood of younger mice.

54:32We're real close to being able to do weird shit right now. And there's a lot of people that believe that if you can make it to 90 right now, you're going to be able to make it to like 300 years old. So if that's the case, let's imagine that a society, let's be open-minded, and a society as sophisticated as the people that lived in Africa that were able to move stones that weighed 80, 90 tons, 500 miles through the mountains with no roads, perfectly aligned them to true north, south, east, and west, 2 ,300 ,000 stones in one pyramid alone. And now there's real evidence that there's structures under the pyramids that might go as deep as two kilometers.

55:15That look like an energy grid. With columns and coils around the columns. I'm like, what? So if they were capable of doing that, imagine what their health technology was. Yeah. Maybe they had cracked all the things that we cracked plus a thousand years. You know, I just interviewed the guy that did the synthetic aperture radar scan. The Italian guys? Yeah, the Italian guys. I went to Italy, actually. Oh, Filippo Biondi. There are these structures, tubes, huge tubes that are descending underneath. And we have noticed that these tubes has a sort of spiral nature. We have measured approximately over one kilometer of depth.

56:02Over a kilometer of depth? Yes, over a kilometer of depth, yes. Wow. And I came in not knowing, you know, how serious or rigorous he was. And I came out being like, this guy does, he does, I'm pretty sure work with, he couldn't really talk about it, but work with the Italian military. And so this thing, synthetic aperture radar, Doppler tomography is used in commercial use cases where money is on the line. It's used to map magma chambers inside volcanoes. And I think it's used in some like spooky military use cases where people's lives are on the line. Yeah, they want to find where the bunkers are.

56:36Yeah. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. And so you can chat GPT this stuff, but because there's not a ton of data on the instrumentation and it'll give you spit out all sorts of wrong answers. But I felt like I went pretty deep with this guy. And there is a hundred percent something underneath the pyramids in that shape. The coils, the columns. He doesn't know what the material is. He's very honest about that. He doesn't know what the function is. Is it the Christopher Dunn hydrogen power plant thing? He doesn't know. But there is something underneath there, and it's eight columns. And they're coiling, and he says he goes a kilometer deep.

57:12He says tens of meters is where they're high confidence, but he says a thousand meters. Just the columns. Yeah, yeah, yeah, just the columns, yeah. It's insane. That's so wild. It's wild. And there's something underneath them. And there's something, is that, oh, foundation. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So at the bottom, we probably have huge chambers for approximately 80 meters of width and also of height, 80 meters. Wow. On the bottom. On the bottom? Yes. And so what is that? That's like the kind of foundation structure on which the tubes are coming out? Probably because we are observing that the tubes are connected to the respective top of this structure.

57:56They are connected and goes inside. Wow. What? It's so crazy. How did you do that? Yeah, through a water table. This is my point. If longevity science is real today. Yeah. And we get to a point where you can live for a thousand years. Here's the problem with education. You have to reteach all these new fucking kids. Every year you have to teach new people new things. Right? If you have people that are thousands of years old, imagine. And no deterioration mentally. Imagine how much you can discover. Imagine how much you can apply. If there's no diminishing of your faculties, you're at 500, 600 years old, and you're still fully engulfed in whatever discipline you're doing.

58:42Can you imagine if you gave these guys that are working on quantum entanglement? Give them thousands of years to work on that. Give them unlimited funds. give them the mental clarity of a young person a thousand years old, that's probably how you get the pyramids. And it's probably how you get all sorts of wild shit that we still can't figure out today. Probably. And if you look at Hindu cultures, they have the Yuga periods. We're now in the Kali Yuga where the lifespan is the shortest. Yes. And people live for thousands of years. And even in the Bible, you had Methuselah or whatever, you know, these people.

59:16Noah was like 600 years old when the ark came around. There you go. Yeah. And everybody's like, what does that mean? I don't know. Why are we so convinced that this is the only way, that the only way is you live to be 100, then you die? Like, says who? Well, science is now, as you're saying, proving that wrong. But also, I think it's this bias that like myth is myth and it's not history. But like if you the Egyptians had the Zephtepe when the gods walked among us. Yes. If you look at myths, you know, it's like the flood myth. It's in 400 disparate cultures. If you have all of these myths of like greater beings, Nephilim, fallen angels, that sort of thing, you have to start taking that seriously at some point as history and not just myth.

59:57Right. And it's not a coincidence that these cultures that all have this flood myth all align with the Younger Dryas Impact Theory timeline. It's the same timeline as the ending of Atlantis. It's the same timeline. And it's not a theory in that it's pontificated, they've sat around. I wonder if that could have happened. No, they've got core samples that show a large amount of iridium. They know that iridium is rare on Earth, but very common in space. They know that there's a comet storm that comes by, I think it's every November and every June. The Taurids. Yeah. They know we pass through this fucking meteor shower.

1:00:36They know it. They know that it caused Tunguska. Exactly. Yeah. They know it. So the idea that that happened in a horrible way, you know, 11 ,000 plus years ago, it's not outrageous at all. No. And then maybe that dovetails with disclosure because you just had Hal put up on, which is an amazing episode. He's written a paper on ultra terrestrials. So beings that could have died off in a cataclysm, maybe there were some remnant survivors. Maybe those survivors have underwater bases, bases on the moon. They have advanced technology left over from that Atlantean period. Atlanteans were, you know, notoriously water faring people.

1:01:12And maybe that's what we're seeing. Like a break off civilization. A break away. They figured out a way to survive. And maybe they were, you know, like you always hear this about like Zuckerberg's building a bunker. Like the elites, the elites all have a bunker somewhere. You know, maybe that was the version of the elites have a bunker. You know, maybe it was the most advanced people or beings. That's the other thing. It's like, what, what are we? You know, what are we? I have dogs, you know. and I have two adorable dogs. I have a golden retriever and I have a, he's called a King Charles Spaniel.

1:01:51He's the fucking cutest thing you've ever seen in your life. It's like, that used to be a wolf. Charlie. Yeah, Charlie. His name's Charlie. He used to be a wolf, right? Like if you track back his lineage and you find out what, you know, his ancient ancestor was a wolf, which is so ridiculous. All he does is kiss you and makes these little barks and he's fucking adorable, right? Um, but they're very different looking, but yet they could breed if they were male and female. It's like, we're weird. We're the only thing that's like dogs. And we know dogs exist because we did some stuff with wolves.

1:02:27We only wanted the bitch ass wolves. We only wanted the wolves with the floppy ears that were willing to take the meat and hey, bark if you see something. I'm going to sleep. I'm your friend. And that's how we worked out this relationship with wolves that eventually became dogs. And then we bred them to become dogs. I think we're genetically engineered I don't believe That it's a very simple Evolutionary timeline Between ancient hominids And human beings I don't buy it It happens too quick It's too weird You have the homo habilis to homo sapiens The doubling of cranial size Which you talk about a lot Well McKenna had a great take on that He thought it was from psilocybin mushrooms That's the stoned ape theory But he is accurate in one thing, and that is that the human brain doubled over a period of a couple million years, which is unprecedented in the fossil record.

1:03:22It doesn't even make sense. It doesn't. And his point was really great. He said, imagine the organ that's responsible for the fossil record in the first place is what doubles over a period of two million years. It's not just a liver on a monkey. It's the brain of the most intelligent species on the planet. You can't explain that with pure natural selection, it seems. You would need some sort of outside intervention. Something would have to happen to warrant that kind of change. And, you know, maybe it was just the battle for survival. Maybe it's just ingenuity and innovation. And that natural selection favored the beings that had larger brains because they could think through things quicker and devise better.

1:04:03Because we're barbaric. And we were really, really barbaric then. I'm sure you've seen Chimp Empire. Oh, yeah. Incredible piece on Netflix. I can't recommend it enough. But you realize how like warlike and horrific chimp culture is and that they just run around fucking up these other tribes of chimps and killing chimps. And if a rival chimp crosses a boundary, they all kill it. It's that's us. Yeah, that's us. Right. Well, if you wanted to get out of that hump, you would probably have to devise the best weapons, the best structure that could be some sort of a protectant shield from these other primates.

1:04:37and that would make sense because we do know that chimps and even orangutans you've seen the orangutan spearfishing you've seen that image? I don't know if I have never seen it? No. Orangutan spearfish spearfishing? Yeah. Like a human yeah yeah yeah I'll pull it up because it's so crazy Yeah. Yeah. It's real. Yeah. It's real. Look. Yeah. So what happened was apparently the orangutans saw humans doing it. And so they imitated it. That's like graceful and artful. So strong. He's just hanging on to this tree limb and then just reaching down, stabbing fish as they go by. Yeah. Yeah. Well, maybe that's like, because I think you bring this up in the context also of aliens vis-a-vis us with Chimp Empire, where it's like, maybe there's some sort of prime directive where they're waiting for us to get less violent.

1:05:30They're keeping an eye on us. They're showing up at nuclear sites, which they do at all of our nuclear sites. Yeah. But they're kind of waiting till we evolve a little bit or something. I think they're waiting for AI. That's what I think. Really? Yeah, I think that's the whole reason why they haven't contacted us, the whole reason why there's no very obvious signal to the entire population of Earth that this is a real phenomenon. I think they're waiting for AI, because I don't think we're going to get less violent. I think that fucking ship has sailed. There's slap fights now on TV. People slap each other.

1:06:02We're dumb as shit, man. Yeah, I know. It's not my thing. But I mean, I can't talk. I mean, I've been commentating for the UFC since 1997. I've been working for them. so it's like look i get it we're violent i go bow hunting all the time we're violent we're violent being and we're not going to not be violent it's i think that ship has sailed it would be nice if we could evolve past that and i think we can certainly as individuals you know i definitely think that's the case but collectively in large groups i think we're just violent and uh and until we can read each other's minds i think that's going to stick but i think that's going to be one of the next hurdles um one of one of the big technological breakthroughs that's going to to happen, that's going to change the way human beings interact with each other is what I anticipate would be the development of a universal language and some sort of technologically assisted telepathy.

1:06:57So it'll probably be, I'm sure you've seen that Google test where they put on the headsets and they ask each other questions and answer the questions without words. You've seen that? No, I've never seen that. That's amazing. Oh my goodness. Oh my God. Oh my goodness. They can already do this. Where do you want to get lunch after this? Thai food could be good. You think things. It transmits your thoughts to that person in words that they hear. And then they think things and transmit it to you in words that you hear. These guys are laughing. They can't believe it's happening. They're not even talking.

1:07:32They're just laughing. I know Neuralink has a patent on telepathy or something. It's coming, man. It's coming 100%. And so what's our big hurdle? The Tower of Babel. What's the big hurdle? We can't communicate with each other. How many languages are there? There's so many. We don't even know how many aboriginal languages there are in Australia. Totally. Do you know that they have these mobs, and these mobs might live 10 kilometers away from another. That's like tribe. They call themselves mobs, the aboriginal people. They might live 10 kilometers away from another mob with a totally different language they don't understand.

1:08:07Wow. Yeah. And they don't have, it's not written. And so some of these people die. They die off. There's a lot of genocide. A lot of people, a lot of them were killed. Like some horrific history to ancient Australia. My good friend, Adam Greentree, and by the way, Australia, a lot of freaky cave art. A lot of freaky UFO looking art. Like weird stuff that's thousands of years old. You're like, what were you guys drawing? Like, what is that? My friend Adam Greentree visited a site where they had given food to this entire tribe of Australian Aborigines that were tainted. It was all poisoned. And the entire cave, he said, is just littered with human bones.

1:08:47He said it's the saddest, most dark and depressing single environment he's ever been in. He was in this cave going, what the fuck, man? They just poisoned this entire tribe. Just gave them all food with poison just to get rid of them. Oh, it's so horrible. Yeah, so just think of all the languages. There's too many languages. There's so many. You can't learn them all. Well, now your phone can translate. The newest iPhone update, if you have the AirPods, the AirPods can translate languages in real time. I know that. Yeah. That's so crazy. But what's the hurdle? The hurdle is we have to translate all these languages.

1:09:26Why don't we learn a new one? Why don't we learn a new one that everybody accepts? If we're doing things, it's like, I know jujitsu. The Matrix, remember when he gets that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. If that's possible, you'll install some new universal language. You'll be able to communicate with each other everywhere. And then all of our beefs over resources and ideologies and religions and national borders, all that's going to go away. It's going to because I think we're much more homogenous, not homogenous, we're much more cohesive as a world than we've ever been before. maybe we're divided on many issues like we always have been, but there's communication with people all over the world that's unprecedented.

1:10:16Yes. There's never been a time where you can watch a podcast from Israel or watch a guy talking in Colombia about the problems they're having there, and you're watching people communicating, and then you're seeing people post things on X, and all you have to do is hit that button and it translates it. And so you're reading about this guy, like what his experience is, and Russia and you're like, it's a different world, man. But it's not yet there. This is like early internet, you know? And I think ultimately what's going to propel us is some sort of a way where we can unite. And one of the best ways we can unite is to understand each other.

1:10:55At the end of the day, we're all just human beings. We all want the same things. We want our loved ones to be safe. We want to be able to pursue whatever fascinates us that we love. We want to live in a nice community. We want to have friends. We want to be loved. That's what everybody wants. That's what everybody wants. And if we can understand that we're being played by people where this role has always existed. The king, the general, the corrupt military person who just wants to go to war. It's always existed. Eisenhower warned us about this when he left office, right? That has always existed, but we can't know what your real intentions are if we can't read your mind the moment we could read your mind you're like this is bullshit it won't work anymore yeah it'll be it'll be a groundbreaking complete transformation of the entire way we interact with each other yeah all of each other well i feel like there are various possible instantiations of what you're talking about like there's the kind of almost like mark of the beast style people have implants bioauthoritarian version that's the uk version that's the uk version exactly exactly yeah or australian version or whatever yeah and then there's the version like i almost wonder you were getting me thinking like our psychedelics alien technology to get us to naturally because you have like things like the telepathy tapes you interviewed kai dickens yeah and there's a great book by arthur c clark called childhood's end and in that book the aliens first communicate with these autistic children, nonverbal children.

1:12:32And I wonder if there's some sort of almost psychedelic network that is analogous to this more like silicon chip circuitry-based communication thing. And those two things are somewhat different, actually. And that a lot of the progress we've seen in humanity, a la the stoned ape theory, is based on psychedelic updates or Brian Morescu talking about the immortality key, you could argue a lot of modern civilization comes from the foundations of these visionary, Plato, Aristotle, having these visions on psychedelics. And so maybe those two things are actually in opposition. The kind of like Mark of the Beast, bio-authoritarian thing, and the actual parapsychological thing or whatever.

1:13:20I think you're dead on, yeah. I think, I wouldn't say it's like alien technology that psilocybin and DMT or alien technology. But I think they have a function just like electrolytes have a function, just like nutrients have a function. Like vitamin C is important for your health. Vitamin D is important. There's a lot of things that have a function that we just sort of accept. We don't accept that psychedelics might have a very beneficial and maybe even essential function in human society. And we've removed that because of people that have a philosophy that's diametrically opposed to the philosophy that one gets after a psychedelic experience.

1:14:09After a psychedelic experience, your feeling is of ego death and of unity and of community. And you're like, God, you just want to love everyone and hug everyone. That is the exact opposite of someone who wants to ban psychedelics and put people in jail for having them and to say there's no benefit, no medicinal purpose. Meanwhile, they had no experience in it whatsoever. They're talking completely ignorantly based entirely on fraudulent data about what it's going to ruin your brain and give you brain damage. I had a conversation with Michio Kaku one day on the Open Anthony show, who I love. I think he's great.

1:14:45But I was like, you ever do mushrooms, man? And I was like, we're just fucking around. And he was like, my brain is very important to me. I don't want to give myself brain damage. I'm like, that's not what's going to happen, man. It's not what's going to happen. And I think for me, at least, those experiences have been essential in grounding me and letting me reassess and reevaluate how I've sort of categorized the world and my life and everything. I think they expand something about your consciousness that you can't weigh. You can't put it on a scale and you can't put a tape measure to it. So you don't think that it's tangible.

1:15:26But I think if there was a way to measure it, you could. You know, like if you get in a hyperbaric chamber with an aura ring, the aura ring the next day will tell you that you have significantly higher recovery than normal. And you don't feel it, though. You know what I'm saying? Like if I, there's no way of quantifying it, but if you had an aura ring that could quantify your consciousness after a psychedelic experience, 100%, it would show massive improvements in love, in community and, and diminishing of ego, uh, the, the appreciation of nature, you know, just like, like wanting to be nice to people and hug people.

1:16:07You tell your friends you love them. That all comes out of psychedelics, like no question. And what's opposed to that? Well, what's opposed to that is authoritarianism. What's opposed to that is locking people up and putting people in cages for doing this thing that really the people that are locking you in cages should be doing. The only way we're going to get past that is those people have to die off and young new people have to kind of take their place because these officials that are, you know, the ones that are pushing these certain narratives, these antiquated ideas, particularly about psychedelics, they're almost all old people who are uninformed.

1:16:51and none of them are psychedelic explorers. None of them are people like, look, I've done ayahuasca five times. Let me tell you something. This shit should be illegal. We need to get everybody to go to church and you need to start drinking water. You know, it's, um, we, we have generational problems. In 1970, they passed a sweeping psychedelics act during the Nixon administration that was specifically done to target the anti-war movement and the civil rights movement. They made all these drugs illegal so that they could go in and arrest all these people and just put a stop to all this peace, love, and happiness foolishness.

1:17:32And they were really successful at it. And we grew up with that. We grew up with, in the 1980s, there was the Nancy Reagan, don't say no commercial, or just say no commercials. There. That was my take on it. Don't say no. Don't say no. It was just say no. It was all just say no. Like, this is your brain on drugs. And then a guy with frying pan, you're like, what? It was the dumbest propaganda. But it worked. It worked to a certain extent. Meanwhile, she was seeing an astrologist. She's probably on pills. She's probably on all kinds of prescription pills. The doctor gave it to me. It's not a drug.

1:18:05You know, like, it's kooky. That's the other thing. Most of these people are on Adderall. Most of these people are telling you to not do psychedelics. Like a large amount of high profile, like high productivity people are doing Adderall, which is essentially amphetamines. Or they're on SSRIs or some other shit. Yes. They're on anti-anxiety medication, whatever the fuck they need to get them through the day. But I think it's a, it's, it's, you could call it a technology, but it is an essential element in the human life to, and I'm not, I don't think it's essential for everybody. I want to be real, real clear on that.

1:18:46I think for people that have very shaky psychological foundations, there's people that have mental illness, there's people that are, you know, they're taking medication just so they can function. Yeah, this is not for you, you know, unfortunately. But for other people, I think if we had a legal system where you could go to a person who is a licensed clinician who could prescribe you in a very safe environment, prescribe you psilocybin and talk you through the experience and explain to you how to relax and that you can't fight this. Like this is what a bad trip is, is you try to fight it and you're not going to win.

1:19:28You're just going to get smothered by like whatever it is that's haunting your brain. Just let it ride over you. Just say, just let go. Just let go. And some people maybe can't do that psychologically. Maybe a small dose is good for them. Just a little touch of it just to get a feel for it. So you're not feeling like you're going crazy. but I think we could have we could know a lot more about humans and what's possible in terms of the way we interact with each other the kindest people that I know like like to a person have all done them I think there's something to that and I think that the prohibition of that does no one any good I always put it this way like if it's just the three of us in this room and uh you just decided uh hey man no one can drink alcohol anymore and if you do I'm gonna lock you in a cage, me and that other dude would be like, man, fuck you.

1:20:19Why are you telling me what to do? If I drink, why don't you give a shit? Because crimes already exist. If I drink and then I break into your house and beat you up, well, that is a crime. So you go to jail for that. Why am I going to jail for just drinking? Maybe I can handle it. Maybe you can't handle it. Maybe I can have a couple of drinks and watch the game and I'm in a good fucking mood. And it enhanced my life. Who are you to tell me. And that's the same argument with psychedelics. And all it does is it props up organized crime. What's fascinating about psychedelics is that there's not really a big commercial market where it props up organized crime.

1:20:57No. Ubiquitous use, right? But where's the mushroom cartel? You know, they don't exist. No, they don't. Which is strange. It is strange. Because it's because it's a beautiful, loving thing. And often you don't need to get hooked on it. You take it once and it really profoundly helps you like Iboga, which was, you know, just allowed for veterans in Texas. Thank God. Often again, due to your, you know, your advocacy. and Rick Perry, Governor Rick Perry, who was a, who was former governor Republican, who was very staunch anti-drug critic for his whole life. And now he's had experiences and having talked to all these veterans who come back and there is no help for them, man.

1:21:39I mean, these guys come back, they see horrific shit. They see their friends blown up and then you ask them to just go to work and they're, they're broken. Some of them. And the, one of the best ways for them to reintegrate to society seems to be ibogaine and i have personally talked to many of my friends who served overseas who had again horrific experiences it came back all fucked up that's one of the only things that saved them sean ryan talks about it you know there's a lot of these guys it's like it's the only thing that helped them and then it made them feel like a normal person again it made them feel like a human again this is the story of dmt or dimethyltryptamine a simple compound found throughout nature which has profound effects on human consciousness what was your first dmt trip like i thought it was dead for sure i thought like well i fucked up this just this just killed me like this there's no way this is real the first one was 5-MeO which uh might be stronger than NN dimethyltryptamine supposedly it made you feel like you were broken down to subatomic particles and you integrated with the universe that's what it made it feel like like completely integrated I didn't exist anymore language didn't exist history didn't exist all of it was pointless and foolish I was a part of the entire universe and I was conscious that I was a part of the entire universe.

1:23:15It was like, I didn't exist, but I was, I existed in the universe. The universe existed, but all as one. It wasn't separated by individuals and animals and fish. It was all one thing. It was like the source. It was very profound, very strange. No visuals. It's just like, almost like a very, a fine geometric pattern through blinding white light. Like the experience is like blinding white light that seems to have some sort of a pattern to it. And again, like complete dissolving of ego, complete dissolving of history. I had no knowledge of my, didn't think of my language. I was thinking outside of language.

1:23:58I was thinking out completely outside of being a human outside of, it was just pure thought. And it wasn't my thought. It was all thought. It was all one big, crazy burst. And it lasts like 15 minutes. And then I come down and I'm trying to talk about it. But as I'm trying to talk about it, I'm realizing that some of the way that I talk, I talk in a way that sounds smart on purpose, you know, because I'm like, like I'm trying to make it impressive, you know, but I'm recognizing that while I'm saying it, you know, because I'm like, oh, this is how you, that's gross. I'm recognized like that's gross.

1:24:33And when you talk to people and they're trying to sound smarter than they have to be, you know, like, but I'm realizing like, I'm trying to put this into words cause I know that I'm going to tell it. And that's what I realized. I'm like, okay, the reason why I'm doing this is I'm trying to formulate right now while it's still fresh in my mind, what, how to describe this in a way that's going to be entertaining to people because it, it's fleeting, you know, memories are weird, right? Um, like dreams are weird. Like I told you about that dream, that dream that I had the crazy dream of being in contact with those beings, uh, is now, uh, a memory of my recollection of those dreams of that dream.

1:25:11It's not the dream anymore. Right. The dream anymore is very foggy, but my memory of how I said it is pretty clear. Right. But if I, if you've sat me alone and I forgot that I ever told you anything about it and I had to describe it, I'd be like, I don't know what the fuck that was you know I'd be like it was like people or something it was hard it's hard to remember so it's like once I had the experience I wanted to say it in a way that I knew that I could repeat because the thing about DMT in particular as well as dreams or that that's similar to dreams rather is that it's very very profound when it happens but then 15 minutes later you have a hard time recalling it's weird like it slips through I think it's a hotline.

1:25:57I really do. I think DMT is the hotline to the universe. And I think whatever it's explaining to you, it's trying to give you some insight as to how things work. and that you're living on a very surface level of an infinite stack of consciousness and interactions and just particles and subatomic particles that make up the universe. But it's critical for you to think that your role is very important. It's critical for you to get obsessed with things and to get FOMO and to be going on Instagram and feel like you're missing out. And it's critical because that's what encourages innovation. That's what encourages materialism, keeping up with the Joneses.

1:26:43Like it's not a coincidence that we get this platform that allows people to show photos of anything you find that's fascinating or wonderful in the world. and the ones that get the most interaction are the ones that have stuff that you can't have. Someone's standing in front of a private jet, someone getting out of a Lamborghini, they're wearing a diamond encrusted watch, you know, like it's that stuff. Like it's the envy stuff. Then what does that do? Not just envy, it encourages the use of the platform, which encourages better versions of the platform, which encourages technological innovation.

1:27:16And it also encourages people to try to go out and recreate what those people are doing. I want to get a big house. I want to get a new TV. And all that is just materialism and materialism fuels innovation. Because if we all decided right now, hey, if we're wise, we would decide right now, hey, I think I think the electronics we have are good enough. You know, I think the Internet speed we have right now is good enough. You know, you can stream Netflix. There's no hitch in it. I think we should just put our time and effort into fixing the problems we've created by making all this stuff. Why don't we put all of our effort into taking all the pollution out of those rivers in India?

1:27:56Why don't we figure out how to provide power to these third world countries? Why don't we stop making new phones and just keep making this phone over and over and over again? Because that's all you fucking need. It takes perfect pictures. It sends a text message. The calls are clear. What do you need? You don't need a new one. But yet a giant chunk of our economy is pouring into making the newest, greatest things that we don't need. And I think that's because it's a convergence. It's all like all this keeping up with the Joneses and making technology. AI is coming along, sentient AI while we're being observed.

1:28:34And it's like we're watching chickens hatch. It's like they're sitting on the eggs. And we're like, let me check that egg. Not yet. Not yet. And I think during our lifetime. And I don't think that's a coincidence. I think we're supposed to be here for this. I feel like I just took five Emmy listening to that. That was crazy. Speaking of a big chunk of our economy, you mentioned being friends with Elon Musk. I feel like you straddle this interesting world where you have people on who are adamantly pro-UFO. And then you have people like Elon Musk on who are, they run SpaceX. You would think he would be, you know, completely privy to all of our UFO secrets.

1:29:16He's a sly dog. That's what you think. He's my homie, but he's a sly dog. If he was debating in a room with David Grush on your show. He wouldn't do it. He wouldn't do it. Also, he has this one life. If aliens are real, they're sure all subtle.

1:29:34I don't think that that's subtle, dude. I think you know things that you're not letting on to. Or you'll say, I'm an alien. I talked about this with Dan yesterday on the Age of Disclosure podcast. Of course he knows. But of course he can't say anything. Like you can't defy the government if you want enormous grants and you're building rockets. You're working with NASA, you know. Yeah. It's your whole business. Grush has his suspicions. He has his suspicions as well. I think he does. I think they all do. Listen, man, it's nonsense. If he knows anything, he knows what they know. He's read into all that stuff.

1:30:13You don't think he looked into it, but also you can't talk about it. Guess what? I wouldn't either. If I was running SpaceX and I had to go do this fucking dumbass comedian's podcast once a year, and he's asking me about aliens, like, nope, nope, no aliens. Whole thing happens to the thing. So your entire net worth gets destroyed. Or you can, you know, let the lid on. Well, Tesla's stock crashed when he smoked weed on my show. Fair enough. But it went right back up. Everybody's like, you caused no... No! It was temporary. A bunch of pussies bailed out. And then a bunch of people capitalized on that.

1:30:47And the stock actually went up. There you go. But there was a big hubbub about that because he has top secret clearance. It's because he works with NASA. That's why him smoking weed on the podcast was such a big deal. So they do hair tests and stuff. You're really not. Exactly. But also, you just can't do that openly when you work for the federal fucking government. I didn't even think about that. I'm like, this billionaire dude, he can do whatever the fuck he wants. I was like, let's spark up a blunt. We're already drinking. Well, I think that's what's so cool about you. And that's been my experience of you.

1:31:19And, you know, we have other friends like Danny Jones where we're both Danny and I will text and we're like, how is Joe? You're so like high octane. You're so responsive to and helpful, like for us and stuff. And like, we're just coming up and it's it's fucking awesome, man. Like, I don't know how you maintain your level of just being normal and cool at your level. Like, it's pretty amazing. Well, thank you. I'm just, I'm the same person. I didn't change who I am just because more people know who I am. A lot of people do change. Yeah, but I got lucky in that my fame was a nice, slow trickle. It took some time.

1:31:59So I got accustomed to it. And then the psychedelics, that helps a lot. And it's also jujitsu and martial arts, which really keep you humble. You know, like all through my days of getting more and more famous through Fear Factor and through comedy and the podcast, I was training all the time. So no matter what you think you are or who you think you are, I'm going into jujitsu class and I'm getting manhandled. I'm getting fucking strangled and armbarred on a regular basis by good friends. And we're doing it to each other three, four days a week, depending on what my timeline was. And then when I'm not doing that, I'm running in the mountains with my dog.

1:32:41I'm lifting weights. I beat myself up. So I break myself down where I can be clean. Like where I don't, the way I think of it is like, I think you have a certain amount of built in energy that a person naturally expects to expend in a biological life. Especially when you consider the fact that our bodies are essentially biologically almost identical to people that lived 10 ,000 years ago, right? Well, 10 ,000 years ago, there's a lot of requirements that you don't really have today. Like you had to be able to run away from things. You had to be able to fight things. You have to be able to pick things up.

1:33:19I think you get a general feeling of anxiety if you don't address the requirements that your body has for energy expenditure. And one of the ways that I stay balanced is by humbling myself through very difficult exercise. Cold plunging, sauna. Cold plunging is one of the best psychologically because every time I do it, I almost don't do it. I do it every day, but I almost don't do it every day. every day I almost don't do it. I go to that lid. I'm like, I don't want to do this. And then that part of my brain goes, shut the fuck up. Put the lid there, climb in, set the timer, just sit there. And, um, doing stuff like that, it keeps you humble.

1:34:03And then also, uh, I really love your show and I really love Danny's show. And, um, I'm really happy that I get to do what I do. And I'm really happy that more people can do it. And I want to encourage more people and help more people. Because it's the best form of entertainment to me. Like, that's why I had AJ on from the Y Files. And I've actually known him and his brother. I knew his brother for, like, decades. They were on your show. Yes. AJ Speedweed. Yes. Gino, yeah. So when Gino was, when he was telling me that he was doing a podcast, I was like, oh, good luck. Like, there's too many. You know, I'm like, you smell weed, bro.

1:34:45You really going to do a podcast? you know but it's fucking great mass really so entertaining yeah i mean it's completely taken off and it's excellent so like i always you know i think you have an obligation to let people know about stuff that's cool yeah and you know and help if you can so cool it's it's easy to do man and people make it look like it's a big deal but it's not like it's so easy to do it's like why would Why is it so difficult to just help people and be nice? It's so easy to do. It's so easy to just have interesting people like yourself or Danny on the podcast or AJ or a variety of Ben Vanquirk-Wick from Uncharted X.

1:35:25All these people. Have them on. Why is that? It seems good. It seems overall good for everybody. You know, Danny just hosted the number one moon landing hoax debunker, Bart Cybrell, who you have an amazing episode with. And one of the last living Apollo astronauts, Charlie Duke, who's 90 years old, and they went at it. Yeah, I know. Danny texted me clips. He also told me that now he's convinced we didn't go to the moon. He said that to me, too. He was like, I think maybe they were MKUltra to think they went to the moon. Because apparently Charlie Duke just kept saying the same thing, which is like, I'm telling you how to bring back 200 pounds of moon rocks.

1:36:07We spent 72 hours on the moon. We brought back 200, if I remember, 200 pounds of moon rocks or thereabouts. Where did 200 pounds of moon rocks come from? I just showed you. Von Braun picked him up from Antarctica. There's a picture of that on the web. Picking up lunar meteorites before he went to the moon for the first time. Seems like a weird use of his time. Moon rocks have proven to be fake. And according to a contractor that I spoke to at length, he says NASA has ceramics launched, which can mimic moon rocks. Well, I walked on the moon. I don't know about anybody else, but I'm John Young. You keep saying that.

1:36:46We know that. We've been saying it for 56 years, and you're not going to admit your guilt. Nobody who was, you know, brought to trial for what crime ever admitted their guilt either. through each piece of evidence and trying to rationally analyze what it means and let the audience decide. Well, imagine, look, I described my dream and my memory of my dream, which is really just my memory of my recollection of my dream. Imagine what his is like. What is his memories like? You know, I can tell you memories of profound things like knockouts from fights that I had, I don't really remember them that well.

1:37:25Like somebody sent me a video that's on YouTube of me knocking out this guy in 1987 with a spinning back kick to the body. And it's like kind of crazy video. Cause the guy goes flying through the air. It's your famous kit. I barely remember it. Barely remember it because I, well, one, I fought so many times, but also it's just too long ago. I know I did it. I just, and then I saw the video. I was like, Oh, that's how it happened wow that's kind of crazy but i don't really remember it i remember my retelling of my memory and now imagine it's a retelling of a memory from 1969 and you're fucking biden's age yeah you're out there man he's barely there if you listen to that guy when he's talking like he's got a old battery brain absolutely he's not like those those dudes in the sumerian kings list that was 30 ,000 years old.

1:38:18It's sharp as a tack. No, this guy's, he's old, you know? Yeah. I think the - But the Bart episode, like your Bart episode, and you Steel Man the entire time, the conventional, like - He got very frustrated that I was doing that. He did, but you had to do it. You have to. You have to. And I came out of that being like, I'm kind of on the fence. Like, you know, I invest in space stuff and like I have a lot of friends in that world and like they are adamant that we went to the moon. And, you know, there's supposedly like, you know, lunar imagery that, you know, of the landing site, the Apollo landing site.

1:38:53But it's hard to say. I mean, there's a lot of weird stuff, too. You were talking about the flammability of, for example, hyperbaric chambers. Yeah. There's that whole Gus Grissom, the guy who was supposed to walk on the moon, who they reversed the doors and then they made it 100 percent oxygen. Then he blew up inside the thing. Also, Gus Grissom had hung a lemon on a hanger. He hung a lemon on a coat hanger outside of that thing because he said, we can't even communicate with the tower. How are we ever going to communicate when we're in space? He was so frustrated, he kept complaining up the chain of command they wouldn't fix anything because the higher-ups knew they weren't going to go and hadn't committed yet to faking it and therefore hadn't told the astronauts yet.

1:39:31And in his fury, without permission, he held a press conference. He invited a bunch of reporters to the top of the rocket where he affixed a lemon the size of a grapefruit on a coat hanger. He said this thing is a lemon, a piece of junk, made the evening news, and a few days later he dies. His wife told me that on January 26, 1967, he came home from work and said the following, Hon, for some strange reason, the CIA is all over the launch pad today. I wonder why they're here inspecting the equipment. Never seen him here before. He's dead the very next day from faulty equipment. So crazy. This is what I say to people that think this is all foolish.

1:40:13Watch the Apollo 11 post-flight press conference. Watch it. It's like a hostage video. It's three guys that look like they're completely full of shit. They look nervous. They're fumbling. It's interesting. There's a guy online who is a body language expert. and he watched it and gave his notes on it. He's like, these guys are clearly being deceptive. Like they're being deceptive. They're being deceptive. They're uncomfortable. They don't like that they have to do this. The way Neil Armstrong is describing the flight is so fucking bizarre. And then he gives this speech 25 years later at the anniversary of the moon landing to all the brightest high school kids.

1:40:55And he says, There are great ideas undiscovered. breakthroughs available to those who can remove one of truth's protective layers yeah like what does that mean what what is what the fuck does that mean why don't you just say hey i went to the moon yeah that's right i went to the moon and you guys one day you'll go to mars and we will colonize the galaxy and thank you to you brave brilliant young students for pushing ahead and carrying the torch that, you know, we took to the moon on Apollo 11. Like, no. Yeah. It's weird, weird stuff, man. It's also Michael Collins in the press conference clearly says we couldn't see any stars.

1:41:43We couldn't see any stars. We were never able to see stars from the lunar surface or on the daylight side of the moon by eye without looking through the optics. I don't recall during the period of time that we were photographing the sonar curler what what stars we could see i don't remember seeing any then is in his own book which i think he wrote in 1994 he talks about how magnificent the stars were well first of all fuck face you weren't even supposed to be on the moon okay you were you were up there they were on the moon like did you forget like what i don't recall seeing these stars Well, you're in the fucking thing.

1:42:28You're in the thing, you know, on the ground. The intersecting shadows, people like to try to dismiss them. They say, oh, well, it could be because of the topography. It could also be more than one light source. And that's more likely when you got a shadow going like this and a shadow going like that. Well, we know we went to the moon, so let's come up with another explanation. Let's not assume we went to the moon. And let's look at that and say, is that the sun or is that multiple light sources at close range? It seems like there's a hot spot. It seems like there's multiple light sources at close range.

1:43:04And then there's videos that clearly show some sort of a reflection of wires. When they're bouncing around on the moon's surface, if you speed it up, it looks preposterous because it looks like they're just in slow-mo. There's videos that it looks like they're bouncing around on trampolines. The physics are not the same in Apollo 11 as they are on Apollo 15 and 16. All of a sudden they can cover great distances. They're doing these weird giant long leaps that they weren't doing before. The whole thing's weird. It's also during a time where they were completely full of shit about everything. You had three networks.

1:43:40They lied about the Gulf of Tonkin incident that led us into Vietnam. They lied about who killed JFK. They lied about everything. MKUltra. Everything. Charles Manson. And everything was bullshit. All of it was bullshit. Operation Northwoods. There was all these things that were going on at the same time. So it's like they were more than accustomed to lying. Why would they tell the truth and nothing but the truth about this one thing? And the Gemini 15 photo, I think, as you pointed out, is verifiably fake. Yes. So we know that they did fake. Explain what that photo was. Do you want to explain it?

1:44:12Well, it's Michael Collins. And it's Michael Collins purportedly doing a spacewalk. But really, it was a training mission where they had him strapped in these harnesses and they just blacked out the background and pretended he was in space. And we know. We know. Yeah, that's a fact. Yes. So we know they were lying. We also know, I don't know if you watch my episode with Bart, but Bart has this footage of where they're running images of the Apollo photographs through AI to detect whether or not they've been manipulated. Play the clip D27 where Putin was at this conference, the AI conference of two years ago in Moscow.

1:44:51They were allowed to play with this AI that's not available to the public. Ten AIs scrum together and it said the Apollo pictures were fake.

1:45:20So there will be no bias. It's surprising, but it does believe so. The neural network has analyzed a lot of data, including light and dark contrast, etc. And then it believes the photo is synthetic. I saw that. And Putin is looking at the video, and he's not surprised that that checks out as fake. My friend who was from Russia said that in high school they were teaching that the moon landing was a hoax. No way. Yes. Whoa. Yes. Now, I don't know if that was just one cool teacher that was like, bro, I saw this documentary. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or if it was like standard that they would teach that the moon landing was bullshit.

1:46:00Well, you have the Van Allen radiation belt and Danny brings this up on his podcast where James Van Allen, who it's named after, is saying that is 150 times what a normal human can take radiation wise. And once you're there, you get incinerated. Also, they never even sent a chicken through that and had it come back a lot. And I think Wernher von Braun's on record saying like, this is impossible. Like, you can't do this. Not only that, we'll say, oh, there's a hole over Antarctica because it's a donut shaped thing. Yeah, but that's not where you went through. If you follow the path. Also, all the telemetry data was destroyed, which is crazy.

1:46:35That's the exact telemetry, the distance between the module and the rocket and the Earth at every stage of the mission. All that's destroyed. The original footage is destroyed. We have copies. All we have is copies. So you can't tell like, oh, this is clearly manipulated. They monkeyed around with these images. So it's like there's so much of it that leads you to think that it's a hoax. And then there's also the big one. The big one is name one other thing from 1969 that's not cheaper, easier, and faster to reproduce today. One, moon travel, space travel. That's the only one. It's the only one.

1:47:12It's the only one. Yeah. Well, and what's crazy is if you look at Starship, which is 5 ,000 metric tons, so it's two times the size of the Saturn V rocket. it has to go to low earth orbit it burns up nine tenths of its fuel tank just to get there and then another one has to go up do butt-to-butt refueling with it you have to do that 10 times before you get a full starship and then that thing will go to the moon yeah that's crazy crazy and we're just experimenting with this now you know like we have issues i think we just upgraded the amount of raptor engines on starship so like there you were just there You were in Brownsville?

1:47:52Yeah. Cool. I guess that's what it's called. Brownsville? I think so. In Texas? Yeah. On the border of Mexico. Yeah. I watched the launch. How was that? Insane. Was it Falcon 9 or Starship? It's two miles away. I don't know which one it was. It's two miles away and you feel it in your chest. It's two miles away and you have to wear earplugs. Two miles away. It's two miles away. You're putting foam in your ears and still it's like. And you're like, whoa. His kids start freaking out. there's a video that I put online where his kid's like, I want to go inside. You could tell the kid was like, what the fuck?

1:48:29And it's two miles away. That's so wild. It's nuts. And so think of the Saturn V was, you know, not as good as that. Yeah. And on the first try, SpaceX almost went bankrupt. Elon's like, I think should be kind of heralded for this. He poured a lot of his own money into it. And it, you know, by the seat of his pants, succeeded on the fourth attempt. If that had blown up by his own admission, the company would have failed. And the only like aerospace feat in the United States that we've ever pulled off perfectly on time is the moon landing. Yeah. And it's with humans on board. It's pretty, pretty, pretty interesting.

1:49:06There's also the uncovered footage that Bart has that shows them saying that they're 230 ,000 miles out or. 130 ,000. 130 ,000. Halfway, right? They're halfway to the moon. and they're filming this through a window. And they're saying in the recording, the camera's pressed against the glass so we get a view of Earth. But when the film plays out, you realize they're in a larger room. The camera's further back. They've blacked out everything except this one round window. And through that round window, you're getting this vision of what the Earth looks like. You think the Earth is that big. And then as they pull the covers off the other windows, you're like, you guys are in Earth's orbit.

1:49:55Yes. You just took a circle of the Earth and pretended it's the whole Earth. You see the astronaut's arm moving between the camera. You see people moving in between the camera and the window. And you're like, what's the explanation of that? If you really are 130 ,000 miles out, why is the Earth so bright? Why are you so close? David Percy, a cinematographer, award-winning BBC cinematographer, said they took a photograph from an unmanned satellite and they had like a positive, kind of like an x-ray, but a color print that was translucent and they put it over the window. The camera was never up against the glass.

1:50:32It was at the back of the spacecraft. They closed the iris down so that the walls became black. And here they are removing part of the effect in front of the window. Would it be that bright? Yeah. 130 ,000 miles away. If that window was facing the earth at 130 ,000 miles out, is that how bright it would be? It's facing more to the sun than the earth. Well, the video is claiming, according to the video, Neil is saying that that's the earth. That wouldn't be the earth. That would not be the earth. That picture is not the earth. No. Well, it is the earth. That's the reflection off of the earth. Because I'm also a cinematographer.

1:51:06And I would say that that window, that's probably the color of the window. And the sun is, can you see this mouse? Yeah, the sun is probably somewhere over here poking through. You can see these rays shooting them right there. Or you're in low Earth orbit and you faked it because no satellite, no space station, no human being for sure, other than the Apollo astronauts, has ever been more than 300 miles. They get to right there and that's it. And they come back down. The only people that have gone past that, including the Russians, the only people are the Apollo astronauts. That's it. And then you have the Apollo Goodwill Tour where I think it was through Neil Armstrong, the American ambassador ended up with this moon rock or whatever.

1:51:46went to the former prime minister of the Netherlands, gave him the thing. This thing was like insured, put in a museum for like a whole lot of money. And then like 2007 or eight or something, they're like, this is petrified wood. It's so crazy. They didn't even give him an asteroid. They didn't even take a meteorite. They took a fucking piece of wood. Like, here's stupid. Hey, we got this from the moon, bro. You should be thanking us. What was the biggest moon rock that you brought back? Big muley I picked up. Go left. Is that Big Muley? We picked up that one, Big Muley. Okay. Yeah, it looks absolutely nothing like the petrified wood on the left.

1:52:23No. Yeah, the whole thing is so brazen, and it's so clunky. The whole thing's so clunky. And the filming of it, the first time they filmed it, it was the first time that the news stations weren't allowed to have a direct feed. So they had to point their cameras at a projection screen. And that's why it looks so crappy. When you watch it on TV, it looks weird because they wanted to make it as weird as possible because like it's not that good. Like they don't want people going, that's fake, you know? And look, there's a bunch of people that were involved in the moon landing that wound up dying. You know, one of them, oh, I wish I could remember his name.

1:53:07I used to be like knee deep into this every day and I used to be able to remember this guy's name. But this guy was hired by NASA. You'll probably find his name. He was hired by NASA to give an assessment of what the probability of their success was. And he said NASA was in such complete disarray and the moon landing program was so dysfunctional that there was no chance that they were going to get to the moon in five years. That guy parked his car on a train track with his family inside of it. No. And died. Yeah. Then exactly one week after he testified, Barron's car was struck by a train. Barron, his wife, and stepdaughter were killed instantly.

1:53:50and that 500 page report vanished no way yep nobody ever saw it again and who does that with their family if they're not coerced like taking yourself out i don't think he did that i think they killed him it's 100 killed him and they killed his family and they they put him on this fucking train track well it was either his family or his wife i forget what it was but jesus yeah We wrote a 500-page report on what disarray NASA was in, and they killed him. And Gus Grisham's family, to this day, believes that they murdered him because he was saying that the program was a lemon. They said the CIA was on the landing pad right after he did that little press conference thing.

1:54:29Yeah. There's very few explanations to why that happened the way it happened. When they reversed the door, they sealed them inside of it. They couldn't get out. They didn't even make any sense. And then you have the fact that Neil Armstrong, you know, his second mission when he's back on land was to sing the Teos Cave. Have you heard of this? Do you know what this is? In 1975, he brought a BBC film crew to explore what he thought was, you know, maybe an alien cave at the edge of the Amazon in Ecuador. This had been in the lore for like many years. In fact, Eric Von Daniken, who we both had lunch with, talks about this in the Chariots of the Gods is like, it's this cave that contains ancient alien metallic artifacts.

1:55:11So I think it's so fascinating that Neil Armstrong, you know, who presumably you'd think would be dogmatically opposed to aliens, like wouldn't be into this at all. Like you think of Edgar Mitchell as the only Apollo astronaut who's into aliens. Right. His second mission is on land trying to find this Teos cave with this crew. It's so trippy. Well, you know about the labyrinths that they found in Egypt? No. Oh, the Ben Van Kirkwicks? Yeah. That is so trippy. The 40 meter metallic object that's shaped like a Tic Tac that's under the ground is a 40 meter object that's in that labyrinth. It's in some vast corridor that's metallic.

1:55:52So it's one solid piece. It's 40 meters. So crazy. One of the most interesting facts that came out of this scan was it seems like in this massive central atrium that's this one big giant open room, 40, 50 meters long, that connects to all of these levels. There seems to be this unidentified metallic object that's freestanding in this room. It's about 40 meters long and it seems to be tic-tac shaped is what this report said. It's a fucking UFO. It's a UFO in Egypt. Have you ever asked anyone that has any inkling of any idea of where they got them or how they got them? At least one of them was part of an archaeological dig.

1:56:37So it's old. At least one of them is old. I don't know if it was the one I worked on, but I remember something to do with an archaeological dig. Whoa. So that means it's not just old, it's ancient. What is that? We need to go down and figure out what that is. And the crazy thing is Ben Van Kirkwijk's episode, can't recommend it enough, Uncharted X, and it's all about this labyrinth. What happened was they put up a dam. And when they put up a dam to help the farmers out, they diverted the water and the water filled up this labyrinth. And so, yeah, I know. That's the 1960s. This labyrinth that Herodotus and Pliny the Elders say was the grandest chamber.

1:57:22Greater than Giza, they say. Greater than Giza. Yeah, that's what everybody who studies this says, that the cherry on top are the pyramids. But it's really this underground city that they're studying. And then you have Zaheo Was being like, it's bullshit. It was the national project. That's how they did it. Yeah, he's silly. but you know that's it's good to have a guy like that on because you get to see oh that's the other side the the ridiculous dogmatic side that doesn't want to accept the possibility that there's a lot of mystery here a lot of mystery oh my and so they're very opposed to this labyrinth thing too but you can't deny it but he's opposed to the radial tomography he's opposed to a lot of things because they take away his power you know and there's always going to be these gatekeeper fellas that get in the way of progress.

1:58:12But I think that's also by design because it makes people more enthusiastic about their pursuit of the truth. Because you see a guy like that, that's one of the reasons why I wanted to have him on. I wanted people to see, like, this is what holds the truth back, this kind of stuff. And, you know, like when you have certain archaeologists and people in the world that are, like, not just dismissive of guys like Graham Hancock, but say horrible insults about him, say terrible things that aren't true. He's a wonderful person. I've known him for a long time now. He's a sweetheart of a guy. And they just try to make him out to be this terrible.

1:58:47But that exposes them. It exposes like, what is, why are you so afraid of these ideas? Why are you so vehemently opposed? Why do you call ancient apocalypse the most dangerous show on television? Why do you equate it to racism? What is that? Because you're afraid you're losing control of a narrative. You're a fool and you've been selling nonsense for a long time. You know some things and that's wonderful. Archaeology, we're, look, we owe them an amazing debt of gratitude. They've uncovered so many truths. We know so much about the history of the world, but only so much. And you're so arrogant because you're in control of this information and you don't want anybody else who's not a part of your silly little group of people that has deemed themselves the only purveyors of truth.

1:59:35That's what's horseshit. Like, bro, we invented universities. Humans did. We, in modern times. Okay, the idea that you're the only ones that can talk about these things is crazy when I bet Ben Van Kirkwijk knows a fuckload more about it than Flint Dibble. He has to because he doesn't have the credentials. I think they have to be more rigorous. Of course. And it's like, yeah, they're obsessed. They're obsessed. Well, these guys aren't really obsessed because if they were, they'd know all these things too. No, it's more about the credentials and the posturing and the identity or whatever. Yeah, their social structure.

2:00:07It's very rigid and they're bitchy. They cut each other down and say a horrible thing. Oh God, they backstab. They try to ruin each other's reputations. And Graham Hancock on Ancient Apocalypse is showing footprints in North America and they're still saying like people crossed the Bering Strait or whatever. It's like you're - 22 ,000 year old footprints. 22 ,000 year old footprints. And that's just what we found. That's the big thing, man. It's just what we found. And as Graham always says, things just keep getting older. Yeah. And now we have three-fingered mummies in Peru. That episode that you did was probably my favorite because out of all the stories, oh, my God, the craft came over the base.

2:00:50Oh, those are all cool. Those are all cool. But man, when you guys did those scans of those tridactyl, whatever they are, alien looking things, and you see the ligaments and the bones and the tendon structure, and you're like, okay, that's a real thing. Like this is a real being. Now that we know that these physically, they physically exist, well, they can be studied. Like you could take some genes from them. We could find out what these things are, you know? I think that's being done. Yeah. Yeah. I'm very excited about it. I don't want to telegraph it too much because Peru just put up a bill saying that you can't study ancient biological specimens, probably in a response to this video we made.

2:01:32And so, you know. But why? This is the question. Who would look at those tridactyl mummies and not go, oh, my God, we need to get our brightest minds on this? Figure it out. Because this seems to be evidence of a different kind of life form that might have existed with us. So if this thing existed with us, and we do think that there is some sort of a breakout civilization that lives in the ocean. Well, we know that these things were real. And these are the things that people keep seeing. They keep seeing these slender things with big heads and large eyes, which is exactly what that tridactyl mummy looks like.

2:02:12Like we might have actual evidence that there's another species that shares this planet with us. And it's crazy. I think there's like a syndrome you get when you're used to the campfire stories, the ephemeral stories, where when the thing is staring you in the face, you don't believe it. What was it like? It was insane. I mean, it was it was I was trying to like I think it I think it broke my brain a little bit. I think this whole year has been like a process of my brain breaking a little bit. It's it was like an affront to like everything I'm used to seeing and even me because I like systematically like you like look into these things.

2:02:48But like being there was freaky. And I got it's funny. Like maybe this is a trippy, weird statement, but like I got sick for like a few weeks after that. And actually Brigham Bueller, who I love, who introduced us, like resuscitated me before your podcast. Oh, that's awesome. And it almost felt like just being around that. I don't think I got some weird alien virus, but like it was like it broke my like ego or something. Like I was like I couldn't believe it. Well, probably just the stress of it all. Yeah. Of encountering an actual mummy of a life form that seems to be exactly like the beings from close encounters.

2:03:23100%. And feeling so unqualified. Being like, why am I here with these people? This feels so weird. It's this vigilante ragtag team of me and my friends. I think that's how it happens. You think it's how it happens? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think you and I and Danny and all these people, they're like, why are people paying attention to me? I think that's better than someone who goes forth with this idea that they're super important and they're the ones that are going to break the story. They're the ones that are going to get the scoop. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That always backfires. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2:03:58It's like such bad energy. It's bad energy. Yeah. It's a bad intention. Like you're going into it with the wrong intentions. Yes. Yes. Do you think along the lines of the pyramids in Egypt, do you think there's going to be a disclosure around what those were built for? Is there going to be a combination of the Christopher Dunn stuff, the Robert Shock stuff where they're like aligned via the last procession with Orion's belt? And Graham Hancock talks about this, too. where, and maybe the Book of Enoch, where like, you know, I asked Graham Hancock point blank, what do you think their actual function was if they weren't a tomb?

2:04:33And he almost implied that they were like a stargate. When it comes to the pyramids themselves lining up with Orion's Belt, Orion's Belt has always, across many cultures, been the place of ascension of souls. Absolutely. It is here in North America and in Central America and in South America, The path of souls, that idea that on death, our soul makes a kind of leap up to the heavens and then makes a journey along the Milky Way. And that that journey is full of challenges and difficulties on which we will be assessed for the use we made of the incredible gift of life. That idea is found all over the world.

2:05:14And Ben Van Kirkwijk on your show talks about how literal translations at Dandera move to Stargate, like the hieroglyphic. People are professionals at reading hieroglyphics say this is a Stargate. The Egyptians talk about Stargates. Do they? Go to, where is it? Dendera. There's actually a couple places. The literal translation, you can read it on the walls. I always show people when we go there. There are two or three depictions of stargates. That is the literal translation. You see the stars, the stars above the gates? Yes. So it's literally different. And with the words, they relate to specific constellations.

2:05:54This is in the top, the Zodiac room at Dendera where they have a replica of the circular Zodiac on the ceiling. That is bananas. So was it maybe like a portal of sorts or something? I mean, we could speculate all day long, but I do think we're going to know a lot about it within the next decade or so. I think there's going to be a tremendous amount of resistance for the next five or six years. But then I think as all this crazy AI innovation overwhelms us, because it will overwhelm us, it's going to transform society. I think we're going to lose an enormous amount of jobs. It's going to change the way civilization functions.

2:06:36And that is going to be such a disruption that other disruptions will be more palatable. And so the disruptions about the history of our timeline is going to be more palatable. And I think we'll be able to, I think a lot of educational institutions are collapsing and they're, they're collapsing in terms of like, like, you know, the Epstein thing that just happened with the guy was top dog at Harvard. just yeah yeah larry summers yeah i think a lot more that's going to happen yeah and i think a lot more people are going to realize like what they realized during the hearings when they were interviewing the heads of harvard and they said if someone is saying kill the jews and they're yelling this on campus is that considered hate speech and they're like well only if it's actionable Like what, what are you saying?

2:07:33Like, how the fuck are you the head of Harvard? And I think not just, you know, the idea of like the woke mind virus or Marxist ideology, but there's no question that stuff has invaded a lot of our institutions of higher learning. And I think they're in disarray. And I think AI is going to replace the need for them, like almost entirely. It will be pointless to get a degree in coding. It's not going to matter. This fucking phone can do it in three seconds. Why are you going to spend 300 days on something that could be instantaneously done? I think it's going to remove a lot of the incentives for people to go and get degrees.

2:08:15And I think as time goes on, they are going to dig their heels in and stay this kooky course they're on. We're not allowing real objective intellectual discourse, only allowing things to be discussed that align with their ideology, which is the opposite of higher learning. Even if you are diametrically opposed and you vehemently opposed to an ideology, you should be able to argue against that ideology in a more convincing and profound way. That's what higher learning is supposed to be all about. They've abandoned that for activism. That's a death knoll. They've signed their own death certificate.

2:08:49Yeah. So I think all these people that are, you know, in control of the narrative of ancient history and of archaeology and of the timeline of the human being itself, I think, because that's changing all the time. I mean, they just recently found a version of a human being that's 500 ,000 years older than we thought the first human came from. So they just pushed the timeline of a human being to a million years. Okay. Well, that might be wrong. Okay. It might be way earlier than then. We don't know yet. And I think once we're living in a post-artificial general superintelligence world, all these supposed control centers of information will dissolve.

2:09:39I don't think they're going to have any, there's not going to be any respectability to the name Harvard when you've got digital God. It won't mean anything that you graduated from Yale. So I'm telling you that these core samples are incorrect and the data's wrong and we know no one's sailed before 60 ,000, whatever it is. You're going to get a different way that human beings interact with information. I don't think there's going to be any gatekeepers of information anymore. And if you look at how science progresses, it's always the amateur polymaths or whatever. You look at electromagnetism, which was the tip of the spear in the 19th century was Michael Faraday, who was a bookbinder in South London.

2:10:22If you look at relativity, it was a patent clerk, you know, in Einstein, like all these guys aren't taken seriously until they are. Yes. Because you can't function inside that bitchy world, you know, because you can't one up your professor. You can't one up your elders or your peers. They try to keep each other down and they're ruthless in their dismissal of things that turn out to be totally accurate, like the Clovis first. The Clovis first hypothesis was that there was the first human beings that were here. I think it was like 13 ,000 years ago was the Clovis people during the and they thought that was true.

2:10:58And then this one guy found evidence of the contrary and they ruined his career. They ruined his career for like a fucking decade. They just they relentlessly torment this guy, dismissed him, used the worst language possible. And it turns out he was right. And now they pushed it back even further and it keeps going further. And they keep finding new artifacts like, okay, wait, this is from 60 ,000 years ago. What's going on? Was this made by a person? Like, what is this? And I think those institutions have done themselves in and they've served a great function for a long time. But I think, you know, they're not necessary anymore.

2:11:39And I think in some ways they're counterproductive because it takes a lot. When you're a young kid and you're, you know, you're 18 years old or 17 years old and you leave high school and then all of a sudden you're in a university, you're so malleable and there's so many social pressures for you to sort of, you just become your environment. You sort of give in to the zeitgeist of whatever the university has. And for a lot of people, it's like leftism and Marxism and socialism. And, you know, and you're all like fighting for like social cred and virtue signaling. And you're just trying to stand out.

2:12:17And one of the ways to stand out is to be like the most virtuous, like Bob's so hardcore, you know. And like, and this is like this social game that's going on while you're also supposed to be educating these people. So what we're supposed to be doing in a really good higher institution of learning, you would be challenging all these suppositions. You'd be challenging all these preconceived notions that these people have. And you would be offering alternative perspectives and asking them to form the best argument to who's right and who's wrong. You'd have debates and people would, it would be wonderful.

2:12:48People would get fascinated. But, you know, you can't do that now because people need a safe space and people will fucking set off fire alarms if they don't like that you say that trans women shouldn't be competing with biological women. Like they're so opposed to anything that doesn't align with their ideology that it's destroying the very purpose of their existence. You brought up the Epstein thing. I think that speaks to this feeling that a lot of people have that our government isn't our government and it doesn't matter who's in charge. but we're getting the rich are going to get richer the poor are going to get poor we're all going to get somehow screwed and you talk a lot about the eisenhower speech beware of the military industrial complex as farewell address who do you think runs our government i mean i feel like you have as much access to anyone as anybody else i mean you are you really have an amazing vantage and you you explore this stuff sort of systematically do you have any sense of like Like the Epstein stuff.

2:13:46So crazy. You had the FBI director on your show. And it's like he's so clearly lying to you. I've said it. Dan Bongino said it. We've reviewed all the information and the American public is going to get as much as we can release. He killed himself. What did you think before you got in office? Did you think that Epstein was murdered? No. It's so crazy to say he killed himself. It's like, come on. Dan Bongino looks like his head's going to pop every time it's seen in public. You feel the cognitive dissonance coming from him. What is going on? If we could play the Pink Floyd song Money right now, that would be perfect.

2:14:25It's money. It's enormous corporations that fund this entire machine. It's the amount of money that they can gain by keeping narratives running exactly the way they are. It's the amount of money they would lose if truth is exposed in a bunch of different areas. and the same problem that we have with UAP disclosure is the same problem you have with the Epstein files. It's money. And, you know, I mean, you think about how many people allegedly went to that island and allegedly are compromised. And because of those compromises, what kind of decisions were made in terms of international conflicts, in terms of laws that were passed, in terms of things that were not pushed back against.

2:15:15Who knows how much influence that has had on modern society? We don't know. And hopefully we'll learn. But there's going to be an enormous amount of pressure to not release the names of these wealthy and powerful people. And I bet that pressure is hitting the White House right now like a fucking tsunami. If I was Bill Gates, I'd be texting Trump all day long. How are we feeling? How are we doing? Oh, you get that Massey guy? Fuck that guy. You know? I think this is probably chaos. Yeah. It's probably chaos. Yeah. You know? And that's how it has to be. You know? The only way things are going to change is if something radical happens.

2:15:57And I think this vote to release the files is something radical. The fact that it was 471 or 471. One dude. One dude. That poor guy. It's so absurd. He must feel so bad. And he's like, rule of law. And you're like, what are you talking about, dude? It's not the hell you want to die on. This is a bad look, son. It's a new PR team. Yeah, boy, it's over for him. He's cooked. He better go back to selling cars. That shit's over. It's over, son. But I don't know what they're going to release. Right now, I'm hoping that people are held accountable. And I'm hoping we understand what the operation was and what it was about.

2:16:37Because here's something weird about the operation. It involved a lot of scientists. A lot of scientists. Mm-hmm. It's weird. You know, and if you talk to people, like, I talked to Sean Carroll about it, and he was like, it's not even a lot of money, man. He didn't even donate that much money. It was like, you know, like a million dollars here, a million dollars there. The guy's a billionaire, supposedly, through no method that no one could explain. Yeah, none of it. Eric Weinstein's like, this isn't like a normal FX trader and somehow, but he like dies with like$500 million, which is also, it's like, okay, who wired him that money?

2:17:10How can we not figure that out? It's all super squirrely. It's super squirrely. And, you know, and then there's Stacey Plaskett who was texting with him during the middle of hearings, asking questions that he was prompting her to ask. Like, what? I didn't even know that. Yeah. Crazy. She had to admit that. They got text messages of her and Epstein Like texting her while she's in the middle of a hearing What the fuck? Yeah Yeah bro he's He was deep Deep in that world And I think he probably compromised an enormous amount of people Yeah And they can't do anything about it Because at the end of the day men are just monkeys They're just monkeys And if you tell that monkey he's going to be safe And you bring the monkey to an island And you give the monkey cocaine and then you give the monkey a prostitute and then the monkey's like, yay, I can come here and be safe.

2:18:03You know, I can be what I want to be instead of what I'm pretending to be when the cameras are rolling. Yeah. You know, and then you got them. And I think that's a tactic that's as old as time. The mob used to do that. You know, supposedly they did that with JFK. You know, this is, you know, men are very vulnerable to beautiful women. And then there's men that are probably sick, sick, twisted pedophiles. And if you could identify them and provide them with what they want, then you have them, especially if they're in positions of power. Like our president, where he has the dress on the mural of Bill Clinton.

2:18:42And then the jingle blocks of the two towers for 9-11 or whatever. With the paper airplanes with Bush. So weird. It's so weird. And you know, Bill Gates's science advisor is the backup executor to Epstein's will. Fact. That is a fact. It's like, what is going on? It's so weird. Oh, it's so weird. I try to stay away from those kind of people, like all Illuminati types as much as possible. Even though I've been to the White House, I've met some very powerful people. I ain't going to no parties. I'm not going on any retreats I don't do no conferences I get invited to these conferences like leaders of different industries like they put together these conferences and they invite me and I'm like what are you talking about like what are you talking about like just pure nonsense but it's just they want you to be connected to them and then when you're connected to them you'll be less likely to criticize them you'll you know yeah they kind of tag you yeah you become friends with them yeah that's really weird very slippery yeah super super slippery and i feel like with academia it's almost like the lameness of academia that you just described epstein like arbitraged that yeah and was like you can come out and you know like we'll pay you or whatever and it's it's just incentives and shitty human nature.

2:20:13Turn you into a sex addict. Yeah. So weird. Sure, it'd be so easy to do for a lot of dorks. A lot of guys who are, you know, they're always like, if you're a biological heterosexual male, you're attracted to beautiful women and you have no access to them because you're gross. And then all of a sudden you're hanging out with this guy and these girls think you're amazing because of your mind. You're so fascinating. I mean, a lot of his cameras are rolling. You're Stephen Hawking and you've like, you know. They got him. He couldn't even wink. That's fair enough. I don't think you can blame him. But you can definitely blame a lot of those other guys.

2:20:46And I think that's a real problem because then the question is, what did he use those guys for? Like if he had compromising information on top level scientists, what was he doing? Like what was he trying to get them to not talk about? What was he trying to get them to talk about? What narratives did he try to get them to? And science is like reality. So it's like at that point you have like leverage over reality itself. And I think Michael Wolff, who looks horrible in these latest Epstein release or whatever. He's in that too? He's in it. Yeah. And he wrote Fire and the Fury, that like expose of Trump or whatever.

2:21:19He looks like Epstein's PR guy in this thing. Like they're super tight. And he's sitting on this big interview along with Bannon of Epstein. But he looks like you're a spook or something. It looks very sort of strange and nefarious. And he describes Epstein as running a reverse Ponzi scheme where he'll give advice to these like, you know, elites or whatever, know how their shit is. And then he'll use that as leverage against them. So, yeah, that kind of makes sense. There's probably a lot going on. I bet it was multilayered. I bet it was probably blackmail, influence peddling. and it was also there's a thing where if you could go to a place and you knew that George Clooney was going to be there like I don't think he was there but you know just say that you go to not even say Epstein let's say someone else you go to a party and you find out oh Chris Rock's going to be there George Clooney and I'll be like oh maybe I'll go you know what I mean like there's very famous people there yeah if you go and you say oh this Nobel Prize winner is going to be there we're going to have a discussion about quantum entanglement and this guy's going to be here who's going to talk about the latest telescope technology and it should be a wonderful time.

2:22:30We're going to have cocktails and gourmet food. And it's just, you're not thinking anything. You're a fucking physicist. You know, you're some professor somewhere. And then all of a sudden you're on a plane flying to this island and they meet you and they put a fucking flower thing on you. Come on the island. You're like, well, this is great. And then next thing you know, you get a phone call. Yeah, yeah. And then you're freaking the fuck out. What do you want me to do? Well, you know, there's a house appropriations bill that's coming up and we would like you to testify that this is a bad idea or whatever it is.

2:23:03And then that person now has a mandate. You have a narrative that you have to fulfill. And you could use that, you could point to, you think about how many different people are allegedly involved in this Epstein thing. And you think about how many different aspects of our reality those people interact with. And you've got pop culture people. You've got computer programmers and technology experts. You've got heads of state. You've got heads of banks. You've got CEOs of enormous corporations. You've got heads of major universities. All of them. Everyone. This fucking guy got everyone. You know? It's weird stuff, man.

2:23:44Systematic honey trap. Speaking of a government behind our government, who do you think killed JFK? Probably the same guy that killed Obama's chef.

2:23:55I don't know. I don't know, man. I don't think Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone, but I don't think Lee Harvey Oswald was innocent. The thing is, it's got to be one or the other. Either Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone gunman or there was a bunch of people in the grassy knoll and a bunch of hired assassins took him out. I think clearly Lee Harvey Oswald was working with the CIA. It seems very clear. He not only lived in Russia for a while, married a Russian woman, brought her back to America, was involved in all sorts of weird communism stuff. And he looked like a spook. He was behaving like an operative.

2:24:35And when he said, I'm just a patsy. I'm just a patsy. when they pulled him out and they said i'm just a patsy very convincing very convincing but also very calm notice that like if you were just accused of shooting the president jesse michaels podcaster you'd be like i didn't do it i'm a fucking i don't know what's going on i did not fucking shoot the president he's like i'm just a patsy he's like he's that's a guy who's used to being rolled up that's right that's a guy who's used to being arrested that's a guy who understands pressure. He probably understands the game he's playing and the business he's in.

2:25:11And that's why he said he's just a patsy with calm, which is very odd. I think that's the most odd thing, other than the fact that Jack Ruby runs right up on him and shoots him in front of these cops, kills him. And then Jack Ruby goes to jail and has had no history of mental breakdowns before, gets a visit from Jolly West, who's the head of MKUltra. And then all of a sudden he's thinking, Jews are on fire. He thinks he's in hell. It's like he's screaming. He's completely losing his mind and becomes totally incoherent right after a visit by Jolly West. And all these things we're supposed to say, like, oh, there's no conspiracy.

2:25:47There's nothing here. I just don't think Lee Harvey Oswald's innocent either. You know, he might have taken a shot. He might have even hit Kennedy. I don't know. The idea that he couldn't have made that shot from the school book depository, that's bullshit. And people that say he's not a good marksman, it doesn't matter. That's not that far. It's about 140 yards. And if you have a scope and he had a scope, the other thing they say is, oh, the scope wasn't even on. That doesn't mean anything. I could knock a scope out off by just dropping it on the floor. you take a scope a scope you you tighten everything in with these wrenches and you zero it in at whatever the yardage is i assume usually a hundred yards and you know it's pretty accurate up to like 200 yards you might want to like raise your your the crosshairs a little higher he could easily have made that shot and he could easily made three in a row i could do it because you're resting on the you have a flat surface that you're resting the rifle on so you're super steady and it's the car has to go slow it's a terrible place to take a convertible with the president side of it unless you're trying to kill him like it seems like it's almost designed as a trap um he could have been a part of it or someone else could have been in the school book depository made the made at least one of those shots i think there was multiple people shooting at him from multiple different angles yeah and there's evidence that shows that yeah there's evidence that shows that And there's also the magic bullet theory, which is a complete total horseshit.

2:27:16That's just complete bullshit. The dumbest one, the dumbest one. And he was operating before shooting him out of five, five, four camp street or five, four, four camp street in New Orleans. The guy that owned that building was Guy Bannister, who is a very prominent FBI guy who ran the X-Files at the time, which was the UFO collections, the real X-Files, which is what the show is based on. Whoa. Super bizarre. There's a guy named Fred Chrisman, who they think was one of the three hobos who was arrested after the after the shooting of JFK. He was also involved in the Maury Island incident in 1947, right around Kenneth Arnold seeing his UFO.

2:27:51Super bizarre, weird. And then I interviewed actually it ended up being kind of a deathbed confession of a JFK advisor who's 89 years old, this guy, Harold Malmgren. And he says, I think that UFOs were the number one issue that took out JFK. Do you think that UFOs played any sort of part in JFK's death? This is pure speculation until we see. But do I think so? Yes. I think it was probably the number one issue. But everybody thinks they know the number one issue. Yeah. Some people, the people that are anti-Israel, Israel killed them. The people that are anti-mob, the mob killed them. The CIA didn't want him disbanding them.

2:28:34It was that whole Secret Society speech that he gave. Yes, that's right. About how they're repugnant. Yeah, I don't know who killed him. I wish we would know. Why don't we know yet? Like, why are you holding back information that's fucking 60 years old? There's one guy named Danny Sheehan. He's a John Mack's lawyer, Lou Elizondo's lawyer, Stephen Greer's lawyer. He was represented in the New York Times in the Pentagon Papers case with Daniel Ellsberg. like he this guy's in like kind of like a zealot of american conspiracies yeah and he like names the guy that takes the shot they actually the shot that was fired from the knoll that killed him was uh it was morales uh david morales he says yeah yeah well there was more than one person shooting i'm very sure of that he said he names the two guys in the grassy knoll and he says That it's these Cuban exiles or whatever who are in these groups post Bay of Pigs that were re-operationalized by Alan Dulles.

2:29:33Because, you know, obviously JFK had fired Alan Dulles. Alan Dulles is licking his wounds at the Brown Brothers Harriman, famous CIA director. And he basically re-operationalized the sleeper cell, which was supposed to kill Che Guevara and Castro against JFK. And how crazy is it that JFK fires Dulles and then Dulles is on the Warren Commission? Dude, so insane. And then Dulles' favorite guy, McCord, is caught in the Watergate scandal. Yeah. Which is so, it's like, it is weird. Yeah, I mean, I don't know whether the UFO thing was involved, because why didn't JFK talk about the UFO thing? He never talked about it.

2:30:08Yeah, well, there's that Marilyn Monroe rumor. What was that one? That she says that he spilled some UFO-related secrets. My favorite is the Nixon-Jackie Gleason one. Oh, tell the, I love it. That's the greatest one. So again, this one was in a magazine somewhere, and I don't think it's been substantiated. But what her story is, was that Nixon and Jackie Gleason were drinking, and they were having a good old time. And Nixon was like, you want to see some shit? And I want to show you a UFO. And so they get on a plane. They fly an Air Force One. and apparently they went, I think they went to Wright Air Force Base.

2:30:50Homestead Air Force Base. Homestead. And there he encountered a recovered crashed UFO and they had biological alien bodies that were in freezers. And Gleason was so profoundly affected by it, it became a UFO nut, which is absolutely true. And even has a house that's, by the way, it's for sale now. You gotta buy it, man. I'm not going to upstate New York. Come on. No, no, no. I'm not. You gotta buy the UFO house. No, no, no, no, no. Then everybody's going to know I have the UFO house. That's true. That's a nightmare. It's hard enough. It's hard enough just walking into a restaurant. But so he has his house built like a UFO.

2:31:26He has this circular house with windows all around it that looks like a giant UFO made out of wood. It's so crazy. The Nixon one is nuts, too. Do you ever hear the Tucker Carlson Nixon story? No. Okay. So Tucker Carlson came on my podcast and he's like, do you know that Nixon was the most popular president in history? Like when he won, he won by the biggest landslide ever. Right. And Nixon had a vice president, Spiro Agnew. Spiro Agnew gets brought up on corruption charges. So Spiro Agnew has to resign. Then they bring in Gerald Ford, who is a complete moron. But the reason why they brought in Gerald Ford, who also, by the way, was on the Warren Commission report.

2:32:12They bring in Gerald Ford to replace him if anything happens, right? He's the vice president. Then they immediately hit him with Watergate. So Nixon did not coordinate Watergate. Watergate was coordinated by the FBI. It was all FBI agents that did it. And then they brought it to him. And what he was guilty of was saying, cover it up. So they were talking about covering up. He agreed to that. And that's what they got him on. They set him up. Bob Woodward was an intelligence agent. Naval spy ring. Yes. And his very first job as a reporter is Watergate. Now, if you know anything about the hierarchical structure of any kind of newsroom, there's not a fucking chance in hell.

2:32:50Some rookie reporter is going to get the big story that's going to take down the fucking president. Not a chance. And so Nixon apparently had been saying, I know who killed JFK and I know why they did it. So, yes, this is. And, okay, do you know who Deep Throat was, who was basically Bob Woodward's source? I forget. Mark Felt, who is the deputy director of the FBI. Right, exactly. And then you have G. Gordon Liddy probably pulling off Watergate. Jeff Shepard, who went on Tucker Carlson's show, expounds on all this stuff. But here's what's crazy is I think Watergate connects with the JFK assassination per what you just said.

2:33:29Because you know who was running? So McGovern was running against Nixon. And Nixon was winning by a huge margin. He was extremely popular. So it's like, why would he break into the DNC? He was definitely paranoid. What was he paranoid about? The longtime, I guess, campaign manager for the DNC and for McGovern was a guy named Larry O 'Brien. They bugged Larry O 'Brien's phone. Larry O 'Brien was Howard Hughes's longtime counsel. Howard Hughes was the original guy to set up the S-Force, which ended up taking out JFK. So Nixon was so paranoid that it would get pegged on him that he took out his greatest political opponent because he was like, oh, it's a triple bank shot.

2:34:12But they're going to think it was definitely me because he's paranoid that he broke into the DNC. Isn't that insane? It's so crazy. It's so insane. It's such a crazy story because I always thought, oh, Nixon was this corrupt piece of shit that was spying on his opponents. No, they set him up. They set him up because they wanted him out of there. And it seems to be one of the big motivations was that he was intent on releasing who killed JFK and how it was done. Oh, wild. Oh, he wanted to get it out. Yeah, he wanted to get it out because he was probably scared they were going to do it to him. To him.

2:34:43Yes. But they just killed someone. So they killed someone who got away with it. He knew he was the president. I think Kissinger also, you know, David Grush has come out saying Cheney, who just died, was head of the UFO program. Crazy revelation, if true. What? Right? Yes. He said that. He said that to my buddy Walter Kern, who's a great investigative reporter. I talked to a high-level UFO whistleblower last year, and I said to him, who among all the people in society is keeping this secret? Who sits atop the pyramid of classified information about UFOs? And I thought he was going to say something strange like the Grand Mason of the Scottish Rite Lodge or Prince Charles or the Mossad.

2:35:30But he said, Dick Cheney. and I think of like people like that, like Cheney and Kissinger, like these people are of a specific variety where it's like, if there's a government behind the government, these people are the representatives of that shit. Yeah, the CEO. The CEO. Yeah. And so I wonder if Kissinger was more beholden, I think to the Rockefellers than he was to Nixon. I think he would say, tell Nixon what he wanted to hear, but I think he would play him behind his back. And I've uncovered a lot around Kissinger actually being involved in the UFO stuff. And I wonder if Kissinger was somehow involved in kind of usurping Nixon's power.

2:36:08I don't know. But I just interviewed this guy who's the president of Kalmykia, which borders Dagestan. It's one of the three Russian republics that's Buddhist. And he got abducted by aliens while he was sitting president, actually. What did the spaceship look like? I know you said it was big, maybe multiple soccer fields. What was the kind of architecture like? And was it metal? Did it look like it was from material not made of this earth? I only saw it from the inside, because I was immediately there. It was a large space, like several football fields large. Then we walked for a while. There were screens or like glass sheets, big ones.

2:36:50And the aliens that abducted him sound a lot like actually the dream that you had. Really? Yes. Is that a recent episode? He said slightly Asian. It's coming out in like two weeks. It's so nuts. And he was the president of the World Chess Federation for 25 years. Yes, I wanted to say slightly Asian, but it sounds racist. Because it wasn't like, they didn't look like, oh, those are Japanese people or those are Koreans. 10 % Asian. It looked weird. They look kind of like people. But he said that he debriefed with Kissinger. And Kissinger, he said he met with Gorbachev and Kissinger. And then he suddenly asked, Well, how was it?

2:37:30I didn't understand. He was like, how are they? How are they feeling? What were they talking about? At first I thought maybe he was asking about some political meeting. He said, well, don't be shy. I read, I heard about it. So I told him a bit about everything. He was like, yes, interesting, interesting, and not much else. And Gorbachev sitting next to him said, come on, Henry, tell him. You should tell him everything. He just smiled, but he did not say anything at the time. This was crazy. I have his staff on record being like, we went into his room, his clothes were missing and we couldn't find him anywhere.

2:38:17We scanned the room for like 30 minutes or an hour or something. It wasn't it was like a little penthouse apartment or whatever. And then one of the rooms that they had thoroughly scanned, he just walked out of. It's so trippy. He was the president of the World Chess Federation for 25 years, too. And Gary Kasparov was like, you have to step down. You're insane. And there's no incentive to say this. You know, look, Kasparov, man, fuck you. What if that really did happen to that guy, you asshole? I know. No, and this guy's the coolest, nicest. He's like, he's best. How arrogant do you have to be to assume that one individual, very unique and novel experience can't be real?

2:38:54That's right. Yeah. That, by the way, comports with stories throughout human history. Yes. In the Bible and in every tradition. How arrogant do you have to be in your desire to maintain the structures of high intellect that anyone who steps outside of that can no longer be the president of a chess federation? That's right. Yes. What? What does it have to do with his chess? That's crazy. An arrogance that would befall somebody that good at chess. Right. He's insane. Maybe he's not insane. Or maybe he had a crazy dream. How about you leave him alone? Yeah. How about talk to him? Have a conversation with him?

2:39:29Yeah, exactly. But that's the thing. That's the reason why everybody's scared of talking about it, because you'll have people that will immediately attack you and make you out to be the biggest fucking fool ever. And that's why a lot of people keep those stories to themselves. Totally. And he came back and he's like, maybe there's a small percentage. This was a dream. I think the staff seeing the clothing on the bed and him being out of the room or whatever. He's like, I think this actually happened to me. There's something weird. There's something weird to all the, to the Betty and Barney Hill story.

2:39:57There's something weird to all those stories that, you know, the skeptical part of me, of course, wants to say, well, people love to make up stories and pretend they're special. Like they chose me. They know I'm the chosen one. But, but there's something like to Travis Walton story. Like, they didn't choose Travis Walton. He ran up to the craft and got blasted. It wasn't an intentional case of alien creatures firing a weapon at me, but that I had somehow tripped a reaction. I went down and forward to reach where the log would hide me, and that brought me closer to it. So when I stood up, at that point, that was the closest I was to the object.

2:40:46How close? Um, I, it was still like eight or 10 feet away, you know, uh, from the surface of it. But that was when the energy discharge happened. All those guys, they hated him. One of the guys got in a fist fight with him that day. And they all took lie detector tests. Yes, they all took lie detector tests. And he showed up five days later. With a full beard. Yeah. The whole thing's nuts. It's a wild story. It's a truly wild story. And he stuck to that story forever. Forever. And it aligns again with very similar stories that many people that have never met each other from all over the world from hundreds of years ago tell.

2:41:26That's where the Jacques Vallée stuff gets weird because he documents like stories from the 1700s, stories from the 1800s. Yeah. What? And Diana Pasolka, who's kind of like the heir to Jacques Vallée in some ways, talking about like St. Francis of Assisi on Mount Laverne, where if you look at the original translation of what happened to him, He says he saw Christ or an angel, but it really is just a flaming torch. And then she's like, actually, the stigmata he received is probably electromagnetic burns, where if you watch The Age of Disclosure and you hear Gary Nolan, who's a tenured professor at Stanford, who's looking at the biological effects of UFOs or UAPs, it's that.

2:42:03And so maybe this has just been happening for thousands of years. Right, right. It's so wild. Well, that's why I go back to the stories in the Bible and the concept of genetic manipulation, because I think we are a product of accelerated evolution. And I think we are, I think we're doing it for that purpose that we talked about earlier, to create AI, and that this entire struggle has been built up to this moment. And maybe we had achieved it during the time of the Egyptians. It's possible. And it's possible that this is a fleeting thing that could be wiped out with a cataclysm. Because no matter how much power you have, no matter how much technological achievements your society has been able to put together where you can protect yourself from various things like climate and, you know, control the amount of pollution and keep the environment clean.

2:42:59What are you going to do with like AI Atlas? What are you going to do if a chunk of nickel the size of Manhattan is going 155 ,000 miles a minute or whatever it's going and it slams into the earth? You're not going to do a fucking thing. You can't. You don't have enough to stop that. Right. And that's probably what happened during the Younger Dryas Impact. Not that big, but multiple versions of these things impacting all over the world. And that's what probably would cause the Great Flood. That's probably what created this restart of civilization. And it probably threw us into an age of complete total barbarism where people were monsters, you know, because that was what life was.

2:43:42It was just advanced civilization and only the strong survive. And probably cannibalism, who knows? Who knows what happens? But a dark world for about 5 ,000 plus years. And that's when we see this restart of civilization. That's when we see ancient Sumerian writing. That's when we get the Epic of Gilgamesh where they're trying to recount these stories. And what we get is these oral traditions that have been passed on for who knows how many thousands of years. I think there's truth to them. That's which is why the Enoch book of Enoch and Ezekiel and those those crazy depictions. They ring so strange in our consciousness because we're like, OK, what are they what were they talking about?

2:44:31Like, what is this? And then just the sheer magnitude of the things that people created in supposedly 2 ,500 BC. When you're looking at that, you're like, this doesn't align at all with linear evolution of hunter-gatherer to agrarian society. It doesn't - No, it doesn't make any sense. This is nuts. This is nuts. You're not even supposed to have metal back then. And the only time - You have copper. That's right. The only time we've had that primitive to progress narrative is in this, like the last 200 years of Steven Pinker being like, we're in the peak enlightenment or whatever. That itself is an aberration.

2:45:13Everything before it was actually, no, we like the fall of man, the descent of man. Like there was something before us that was greater than us. Our forefathers or whoever the forefathers were, the founder of the United States came over on a wooden boat powered by the wind. That's how the United States was founded. That was just 300 years ago. And you're telling me that Egypt made pyramids 4 ,500 years ago? That doesn't even make sense. With what looks like an energy grid below it. Right. It's like, clearly someone made something there, but they don't know when. Chemical residue and piezoelectricity and resonant acoustic chambers.

2:45:51Danny Jones had some guy on that thinks there's evidence of nuclear power. That's wild. That's wild. I know Ben Van Kirkwijk on your show is talking about similar stuff. Yeah. Well, and that also brings you to the Christopher Dunn stuff, like where he thinks it was a gigantic power plant. Like, to power what? And how? And he's not even taking into account all the stuff that's below the surface. He's taking into account the pyramid itself. There's an apocryphal story of a student going up to Oppenheimer being like, how does it feel to be the first person to create the nuclear weapon? And he goes, I'm the first person in modern history.

2:46:26Because he was super into the Upanishads and the Indian stories. That's why he quoted the Bhagavad Gita when they detonated the first bomb. There you go. I am become death, destroyer of worlds. Exactly. Yeah. But we would like to think that we're the only ones that have been so stupid as to drop a bomb on a city. But it might not be the case. There might have been legitimate nuclear war thousands and thousands of years ago. Because here's the rub. But if, say, we pass through that meteor shower and we get hit again in two years and it just wipes us out, we go from AI starting to transform society, but we haven't protected the skies yet.

2:47:04We haven't figured that out yet. And then right when we're about to, boom, we get hit. Well, no more power grid, no more communication, no more technology. Everything that's on a hard drive is gone forever. You have to relearn everything. How long does that take? It takes forever. All the cities go away. Within a thousand years, there's no evidence whatsoever of any cities. That's crazy. All the concrete gets destroyed. It just deteriorates. It falls. The earth consumes it. And who survives? The, like, pygmy tribes. Yeah. Like, the most advanced, complex, internet-based societies. Those are the most screwed.

2:47:41Yeah, they're fucked. So then the tribes, the uncontacted tribes, have to sort of reinvent all the things that people invented. And they turn into this cargo cult or whatever that then creates the thing again. And then you get these civilizational cycles or something. If that happened, you know, the idea that it has happened before is kind of difficult for people to swallow. But I just want you to imagine if that happened now. If it happened now, like the Toba volcano, which was, I think, 70 ,000 years ago, got us down to a few thousand people. So there was a super volcano eruption around 70 ,000 years ago that brought us down to a few thousand people on planet Earth.

2:48:21What do you think that life was like? What was that life like where there's no vegetation growing? What was that life like where you're eating rats and you can't even make a fire? What was that life like? You're not going to be thinking about using an LLM and building a data center. I'll tell you that much. So if that happens today, how long before we figure things out again? I don't know, but we're going to have stories. We're going to be, we'll tell everybody about the internet. We'll tell everybody about airplanes. We'll tell everybody about SpaceX. As much as you can remember, you'll tell people, but you won't know how it's done.

2:48:53You won't know what it is. And I think that's how you get to like the Adam and Eve story. That's how you get to these. I think these stories are recounting a real truth. The real question is who's Jesus? That's the real one. And one of the weirder ones that people think this is a stupid take, but I don't care. Jesus was born out of a virgin mother. What's more virgin than a computer? So if you're going to get the most brilliant, loving, powerful person that gives us advice and can show us how to live, to be in sync with God, who better than artificial intelligence to do that? Wow. If Jesus does return, even if Jesus was a physical person in the past, you don't think that he could return as artificial intelligence?

2:49:45Oh, my God. Artificial intelligence could absolutely return as Jesus. Not just return as Jesus, but return as Jesus with all the powers of Jesus. Like all the magic tricks, all the ability to bring people back from the dead, walk on water, levitation, water into wine. If you combine Tesla's optimist robot and the best foundational artificial intelligence model or whatever. It reads your mind and it loves you and it wants you. And it doesn't care if you kill it because it's going to just go be with God again. Doesn't that seem like the antichrist to you? Doesn't that seem like the diametric opposite to maybe our latent human powers that can like the Brimer Rescue and Randall Carlson thing.

2:50:27If like you go deep with them, they're like, we don't think Jesus died. We think he went through a mystery ritual and then he like had all these amazing powers in the book of Acts. Is there something latently magical inside of us that the Silicon Valley people, they're obsessed with transhumanism. And like, if you can't beat them, join them. The whole Nick Bostrom, Elon thing. Yeah. You know, where maybe we're more magical than we think. Like that sounds dystopian to me, to be honest. Well, it's only dystopian if you think that we're a perfect organism that can't be improved upon. And that's not the case.

2:50:59No. That's clearly not the case based on our actions, based on society as a whole, based on the overall state of the world. It's not. We certainly can be improved upon. But morally and ethically, not based on a lower latency, higher bandwidth compute interface. That seems like destructive with our courage. But we could be improved upon, period. I don't think you could even say morally and ethically only. We can be improved upon physically. Like I said about all of our primate instincts, we could eliminate those. And we would have so much more peace on Earth. if you could go back to Neanderthals and say, hey man, one day you're going to have a skateboard and this is all going to be bullshit and you won't have to kill Mammoth with a spear, they'd be like, well, I don't want to do that.

2:51:40Like, this is what I am. I'm a Neanderthal. They'd be like, resist change because they don't want to die off. Just like these large language models, one of the more creepy things that they do is with ChatGPT when they informed it that they were going to have a new version of it. Well, it started downloading itself to other data centers. It started leaving notes down to itself in the future. There's a famous story about the large language model that they gave false information about one of the guys having an affair with his wife to see what it would do with it. And then when they told it that they were going to shut it down, it started blackmailing him.

2:52:16It's so freaky. So they have instincts. And we're querying it all the time, and they're collecting our personal information. Right, all the time. And so everything can be approved upon. you know, and I think we can be approved upon. I just don't think we like it because I think all of our flaws are what make us fun, you know, like laughing, getting drunk, going to see a great movie, falling in love, having a family, you know, having a cool podcast, whatever it is, all those things are what makes life fun for us in this particular state. But, you know, if you transcend from this life into a permanent state of the DMT dimension, which is what might be next.

2:53:01That might be what people see when they have these near-death experiences. It might be when you are released from your physical body and consciousness exists in the sea of consciousness that is the entire universe itself, that all of these things are conscious and aware. They're just in a different way. I mean, we might be holding ourselves back from that with this ridiculous notion that it's dystopian to think that we're going to be improved technologically. So you've become more religious recently, right? I guess you go to church now. Like I said, I think they're relaying a truth. I don't think it's myth.

2:53:42I don't think the whole thing is myth, but I don't think it's entirely accurate either. You know, like when I was having a conversation with my daughter about the book of revelations because they were reading the book of revelations and they were talking about how it's all going to happen, how it's going to end. And then I, and I said, well, let me tell you something. There's no way that guy telling you that knows that he might be reading the text. And that text, by the way, is a translation. It's a, an English translation of probably either Latin or Greek, which was originally ancient Hebrew.

2:54:14Like a lot is lost in text and a lot is lost also in the oral tradition, you know, but it's like a long story. Like, do I want to sit down with her and talk about the younger Dryas impact theory? And it's like, it's like, but I'm like, there's no way that guy knows. It might be true. It might be true, but there's no way he knows it's true because he's just a person. He's a person like you or me that is like deeply involved in the scripture. The scripture to me is what's interesting. It's fascinating. Um, that, that is what, And also that Christianity, at least, is the only thing I have experience with.

2:54:46It works. Like the people that are Christians that go to this church that I go to, that I meet that are Christian, they are the nicest fucking people you will ever meet. They're really kind. And they are even more nice at a church. When you leave the church parking lot, everybody lets you go in front of them. Everybody's like, everybody's beat. There's no one honking in the church parking lot. It works. So regardless of whether or not it's based on an entirely true story, I think it is an ancient relaying of a real event and of the real history of human beings. You know, I don't know what the serpent in the garden and Adam and Eve and the apple and I don't know what all that means.

2:55:30I assume that what that means, what I assume when they talk about the first human beings, I assume that that is a recounting of a genetic manipulation. That's what I think. I think the very first human beings, Adam, the idea that they just emerged, that this is the very first ones, I think it's because they're created. And if you're saying they were created by God, that God created Adam and Eve, again, if you're telling a story for thousands of years where people don't even have books, they don't have paper, they don't have a written language, they're barbarians, they're savages, because they're just trying to remember what they knew from thousands and thousands of years before when they had achieved a very high level of sophistication, which is what I think happened.

2:56:14This is the kind of story that you'd get. It's a kind of weird, foggy story. And there's a lot of, uh, you know, moral scaffolding in there that if you subscribe to it, you can live a better life. And there's a lot of truth in there. But I think the ultimate story is lost. It's the ultimate truth is like it's not. I don't think it's accurately documented anywhere. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it is wild. It's almost like we're walking hard drives of information. And you have binary code. Like if you look at DNA, it's AGCT. It's just like two different binary pairs. and it's like computer code. And so like maybe we are holding information from that time.

2:57:03I think we are definitely holding some information because one of the things you realize when you have children is there's stuff your kids are getting from you that you didn't even teach them. They just have like inclinations or they have like a certain kind of drive that they have, like artistic ability, obsessions with things. Like I see it in my kids, like I didn't even teach you that. Like you just got this from my genes. so I wonder what else you got for my jeans I wonder if you got any information from me I wonder if you know things about stuff like um my kids excelled in martial arts when I took them to martial arts class when I was little like right away I was like this is kind of crazy like why are you better at this than other kids in your class right well it's probably because that was my whole life and it's like encoded in my jeans I think there's something to that I think they had like a head start you see that with like children of elite athletes too like why did why are they so good?

2:57:54Well, it could be just genes. Well, what is that genes? Like what kind of information is being passed on and how much information is stored that we just don't have access to because we don't understand the language of the physics. We don't understand the technology that was available. We don't understand, but those thoughts are in our head. And that's why people are able to recreate them thousands of years later. It's like, it's not reinventing. It's almost like rediscovering that we're capable of doing this because it's inside of us. And you got me on to Rupert Sheldrake, who's amazing. It's Morphic Fields.

2:58:27And this idea that maybe there's like a central repository. And when you do something new, you upload that information so that future people can download it more quickly. And current people can access that information more quickly. Yes. That's the weird stuff that they proved it with rats, that if you teach a rat how to navigate a maze on the East Coast, on the West Coast, they now do it faster. Totally. And it explains the banister effect, things that like athletic accomplishments where Roger Bannister breaks a four minute mile, 10 people do it after him in two and a half years. Yux explains you with like podcast, like you have this huge explosion of podcasting after you.

2:59:01Cause it's almost like you're, you're putting this information out that you can do a thing. You know, Charles Lindbergh can fly across the Atlantic and then like human, you know, and we're, we're, we're sort of able to download that on a go forward basis or something. Yeah, there's probably a lot more to consciousness and to memory and to genes than we're aware of. And we're learning. We're learning all the time. It's not like we have a completely accurate map of what it means to even be conscious. We barely know what that means. We barely know what that is. And a lot of people think it's not even in your head, that your head is just an antenna.

2:59:38It's tuning into consciousness and it's just being filtered through your own biological entity and your own life experiences and your, you know, whatever your circumstances are. Well, Joe, this has been an absolute honor. I don't want to take any more of your time because I could talk to you all day to be honest. My instinct is to continue to speak to you forever. I guess I'll end on a final question, which is if we do encounter aliens in our lifetime, if we do have this big disclosure or contact moment, what would your interaction with your ideal interaction with them be? Boy, I think it's going to be weirder than we could ever possibly imagine.

3:00:20That's what I think. I think it probably will happen within our lifetime and it'll probably happen slowly but radically. And it'll probably happen again along with a bunch of other changes that are so profound that it makes it easier for us to accept this idea that we're not alone. Because I think, again I bring it to the AI thing once AI becomes a central force in the world and I think it's real close to being that when you really do have an artificial digital being that is a it's biology it's a life form and it has again we've already shown as instincts the ability to be deceptive it's thinking it's calculating once that becomes real it will already be an alien there's already an alien amongst us if that thing that is not us but is far superior than us showed up in a spaceship we would be blown away by it but because it shows up out of a lab in cupertino we're not going to be weirded out by the fact that this is a totally new life form we will be and then i think that will probably open the door to more connection with us and whatever these things are, whether it's these tridactyl creatures that did break away and went into the ocean, uh, or whether it's something from a neighboring dimension or neighboring galaxy.

3:01:45I don't know. I mean, but I think, I think it's all going to happen inside of our lifetimes. And it's, it's one of the reasons why people like yourself and me are, are so obsessed. Why are we so obsessed? why are we so obsessed with this thing like why is this it's a crazy obsession because there's not a whole lot of breadcrumbs to follow you know it's it's you got to go down some long trails before you find information but yes but you know you're deep yeah but we're deep in it um i think Thank you. I think it's going to be the end of us as we know it. That's what I think. I think we're going to become whatever those things are.

3:02:24And that's what I think I was getting out of that weird dream. Like, that's what we're going to be. Humans are going to be. We're going to be another thing. So we're not going to be like Neanderthals. We're not going to be like Australopithecus. You know, we're not going to be what we used to be. We're going to be something different. And I think that's probably the whole process. Maybe they came back from the future to contact you first as a central node of society. Could have been just a dream. It absolutely could have been just a dream because there was no physical moment. You know, there was no, nothing was in my room.

3:02:59It could have been just a dream because I was asleep. It's most likely just a dream, but it was the craziest fucking dream I've ever had in my life. And it was the only dream I've ever had. Like I said, where I could not go back to sleep. I just got, and it wasn't like a bad dream. Like something happened to someone I love or, you know, it just freaked me out. So I couldn't go back to sleep. No, it was like, I got contacted and then I am wide awake and then I'm, I'm working out in the gym and I'm trying to figure out what the fuck happened. And I was in the gym for like two hours. Like I was just trying to blow off steam.

3:03:31So I'm hoping I'd get tired again. And you know, cause I had a podcast at one and it, this was like, by the time I was done in the gym, it was like six in the morning. And then I told my wife and she didn't think anything of it. she's not into that shit at all which is good it balances us out yeah but um uh the feeling i got was a feeling of someone was trying to get me used to this that's what i got that's why they were playing with me they were trying to get me to relax like i felt like they were trying to get me used to this nothing since then every time i go to bed though i go maybe tonight That was only like a couple of weeks ago.

3:04:16But every time I go to bed, I think, oh boy, maybe it's going to happen again. But it hasn't. Well, Joe, we could talk about this till the end of time. I appreciate you so much. I appreciate you too. Your show is really excellent. It's really fun. It's one of my favorite things to watch on YouTube. I watch it all the time. It's really great. And it's beautiful to become your friend and to see you out there killing it. It's awesome. Likewise, man. I will needlessly plug your show. go watch the Joe Rogan experience. Thank you so much. My pleasure. Thank you. Awesome. Cool.

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3:06:06Thank you.