Legendary Hip Hop Producer Reveals UFO Obsession (Ft. Flying Lotus)

35:23Yeah. Well, I'm curious. Yeah. Curious. Do you think that more, like, it was such a revelation to me to see that you were into this. I was like, this is the coolest collision of worlds. Do you think that more people in just general culture continue? Because I think it's on Twitter. It's like you and Father John Misty. Oh, really? To me, like, the cultural icons who are, like, peeping into UFO Twitter and, like, liking stuff here and there. I don't know if you know that. I didn't know that. That's cool. Oh, it's really random and funny. Yeah. And he wrote, like, something like, when I heard Diana Pasolka say that Chris Bledsoe is the new Paul Benowitz, I realized I needed to get a life or something.

36:06That was his, like, recent tweet. That was perfect. It's like, bro, like, you are deep in it, you know, at that point. That's perfect. Also a dude from, what, Blink-182? Oh, Tom DeLonge. I mean, he's, yeah. Dude, what? See, that's your autism, bro. That's your autism. You got everybody's name. Like, you're so good with names. I watch you do interviews all the time. And you know everybody. The name was like, oh, yeah. I don't know how you do that. Like, did somebody bring up some obscure book that someone wrote? And you know the author's name and everybody who was in it. And they're like, what is that shit, dude?

36:38Like, I forget everybody's name. I don't know y 'all's names back here at Films. I've got all names already. You've got Sam and Mauricio. Sam and Mauricio. Are you lying? No, I'm not lying. I got that right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. but I find that to be like, that's actually super powerful. That's my, first of all, it's a totally useless skill. No, it isn't. No, it isn't. You don't need memory. It's a parlor trick on a podcast. no. It's always impressive to me. Well, I appreciate that. That means a lot. That it's funny. It means a lot to Sam and Mauricio too, that you remember their names. Yeah. Well, Hey, what can I say?

37:12I mean, uh, I think it's, I think it's my only skill. After the Rogan thing, We hung out at the mothership at his comedy thing. And my girlfriend was there and she was talking to him for a bit. And he was like, it was the best compliment. He was like, Jesse's memory is next level. And to me, his memory is next level. Because it's like, he knows all sorts of crazy facts about all. Like, I'm in a narrow domain. I probably have a decent memory on some of the other stuff. But like. He's got diverse interests. Yeah. He's got diverse interests. He's actually one of the people who got me to try DMT. for the first time.

37:49No way. Yeah, yeah. Really? Back in the MySpace days, he was talking about it. I think this is even before he was doing the podcast like that. But yeah, he was... Yeah, he was early on DMT. Yeah, he was, you know, got me on Rick Strassman's book and all that stuff. And I brought some DMT for you, actually. Let's go. Just kidding. I think this would be the most absurd environment. Don't smoke DMT here. Don't do it here. don't do it here i would break but you should try it maybe i will you talk about that last honestly i don't i've done ayahuasca oh that's right technically i've done it but not the not the fast acting yeah maybe maybe check it out if it comes your way okay yeah yeah check it out you've told me some stories hey you know it's um it's fascinating stuff i feel like my brain don't think of the stuff that that showed me so i find it to be really really interesting yeah that's fascinating it's like you were in another objective reality like where does that if that's not in your mind yeah because you know where is that i always think about you know people saying when they trip they talk about like oh i was i was in jimmy hendrix's guitar when i was listening to his music and all that stuff like jimmy hendrix was nowhere to be found in this reality it was like really just stuff that i'd never my brain doesn't go in this direction but it's funny though because i don't really recommend it to people anymore except people like yourself i feel like my worldview is so trippy though i worry i worry that it was like saying that yeah like you're afraid that like you're not gonna come back or something afterwards because i'm already so like my my worldview is very different i think than the average person because I'm in all the weird shit all the time.

39:38So I feel as sensitive as I ever have around, like, you know, just keeping this thing on, you know, straight. No, I feel that. But in the right set and setting, if it were, you know, to come across my path serendipitously, I would do it. Who would you throw a DMT with then? Maybe you, man. I mean, who else? No, maybe you. That'd be awesome. Yeah, that'd be cool. I wouldn't do it, though. It'd just be you. That's why Rogan got you into it. Maybe, man. I saw he follows you on Twitter. Yeah, from like forever ago, like when Twitter first came out. Yeah, I could see him liking your music. I know he likes hip hop for sure.

40:16Oh, man, that's interesting. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know what's up with Joe. I find him to be an interesting dude. But as far as DMT, yeah, man, I think you need to try it. Oh, man, that would be crazy. What's up, guys? I want to tell you about my new favorite boots. These things are epic. I've been wearing these everywhere. They're called Brunt. They're insanely comfortable and durable. These things last for years and they're super versatile. I wear them for hiking, for hanging out. They look pretty swaggy if you're going out. They even look good in work meetings. They feel incredibly comfortable.

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41:31Even better, Brunt lets you try all their products on the job risk-free. Just go to BruntWorkwear.com and use code JESSE for$10 off. Again, that's BruntWorkwear.com, code JESSE. After you purchase, they will ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them that we sent you. The way it came to me, though, was so weird. because I remember after hearing Joe Rogan talk about it, I remember saying something on MySpace, just talking about, like, I'm very curious about it. And then I was in Australia. I was in Perth on New Year's Day. They celebrate the day there this summer.

42:17So it was a morning party that I was at. It was like, it must have been like noon or something like that. And I'm like throwing down, played a really cool set. And I don't usually like toot my own horn if I don't deserve it, right? Like it was actually a good set to play. That was pretty wasted though too. Some people like carried me outside, carried my big ass outside. They were like, because I was so wasted. I'm like sitting out on the patio of this venue and some dudes, just random Aussies came up to me and just like dapped me up and was like, yo, I heard you just want to try DMT and just gave me like a fat sack of it.

42:52And I, like an idiot, smuggled it all the way back to the States. I did a whole tour out there, smuggling it the whole way and brought it back. I would never do anything like that. But yeah, it was some amazing stuff. I've never seen any DMT that looked like that ever since. Wow. Actually, yeah. Do you feel like it changed the way you think after the experience? You know what? It didn't, but it was more so validation to the idea that maybe there is some more than this. I think that's what it was helpful for, just showing you that there was way more going on behind the curtain. I think at that time, my life, I needed it.

43:39My mom had passed away months before that. So I feel like it was really a way for me to connect to the other side and still be here. So, yeah, I think, again, I don't recommend it to everyone just because I do feel like if you are susceptible to schizophrenia or any of that kind of stuff, it could set you off. so do you feel like the pain of your mother passing you say that it kind of influenced Cosmogramma a lot right yeah absolutely was do you feel like pain creates great art and it can spur on great art um I think I think it's a weird one with that is I don't know if if that's real but i'm just grateful to have art to turn to when i'm when i need to go to church it's an outlet yeah i need when i have to say something i'm always so grateful for that to be able to create music um um whenever i need to go back to the source it's kind of awesome Like when you feel overwhelming emotions, you have like a thing that you can just port it into.

45:04Yeah. And I think a lot of people don't have it. They don't. They don't have it. I'm really grateful for it because, you know, in a way I get my job is to go to therapy. Yeah. Yeah. Pretty much. Yeah. Is to just heal, you know, and try to understand more about the world and the universe and stuff and ask questions through the music. It's a great job. If you could smoke DMT with anyone in the UFO world, who would it be?

45:37Good question. Man, I'd be down to smoke one with Bob Lazar. I'd be down to get busy with Bob Lazar in that way, man. That'd be fun. I wouldn't, you know, I respect that experience so much that it would take a lot for me to do it again, actually. I've only done it like two or three times. okay and uh to try it again would be a lot yeah yeah yeah i wonder sometimes some of these ufos might be like it's it's like the is is dmt like you know night vision or like infrared or something and if you're gonna hook those up to the optic nerve you could see that and dmt is like another version of that where it's like a window into i think jake barber was talking about that without saying so i think he was alluding to that a little bit and i think that maybe some of the other whistleblowers might have too but like i do feel like there could be some connection i at least the very least that maybe this is something that we were you know connected to a bit more uh earlier in in our development as human beings you know um maybe we were closer to god closer to the source, closer to the stars.

46:56And I think that part of that was maybe seeing some of those places that you can access on DMT. Yeah, totally. And I feel like the reason a lot of people don't believe Jake's story is the reason I do believe it, because it involves this mental connection. And I think for a lot of people, it's like you are grouping in ETs or NH, non-human intelligence, along with psychic stuff. Give me a break. Like, I'm not going to, you know. Dude, I'm going to be honest with you. It was a lot, though. Yeah. He dropped a lot on the day. And it was like, even for me, someone who was like, I'm trying to be down.

47:32Yeah. You know, like, I was like, ooh, buddy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're going to lose some people with that stuff. For sure. The second half of that story. You should just stay in on the first half, show the egg, and let it go. You know? Shit. Next interview, you could talk about that. But, man, he dropped a lot on it and didn't blink either. I was like, bro, like, go easy on it. Well, both he and David Grush have this like googly eyed, I've seen some shit look in that in both of their interviews with Ross Coulter. I don't know if it's Ross's lighting or if like they've seen some shit, you know, they have that, you know, kind of, you know, like I've seen something kind of gnarly.

48:08Grush blinks, though. Grush blinks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Jake's got that. It was so about that, dude. That was just like, what is going on? Is he an alien? That's bloody. That's funny. I think it was a little chiller in my follow-up interview. Totally, totally. And I'm just talking shit. I'm just having a good time. But I have so much respect for all those cats, honestly. I think they're all brave to just even knowing how crazy the community is, knowing how crazy the stakes are and all this stuff. I do feel like it's a level of courage that is pretty next. And these people aren't media personalities.

48:46They're not trained to be in front of the camera and stuff. So, you know, we've got to give them a pass. No, they don't know what they're doing often. You kind of have to help hold their hand and stuff. And they're scared. And I see it firsthand because I often all get thrown in with them or whatever. They get a lot of backlash. Like they got Randy Anderson who he went underground and he saw this like gauntlet thing that like emitted hieroglyphics. and he was stationed at Naval Surface Warfare Crane in Indiana in 2014. He was taken down a bunch of floors in an elevator to a deep underground military base, and then he was taken basically through a tunnel past a bunch of skiffs into something that said, I think it was like, off-world or off-planet technology.

49:35Yeah, yeah, I heard about this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Was he talking to Greer? He was talking to Greer before I met him. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I had been talking to him for about six months. He was talking to UAP Curb, actually, before I met him, too. Oh, cool, cool, cool. And I had some inklings that, like, this year was going to be kind of crazy as far as whistleblowers coming out. And I was like, dude, if there's ever a time, I think you should come out now. And he was in Vegas and came down to L.A. But, like, right after that, you have all these guys being like, he's not a Green Beret. And he didn't pass these tests.

50:09And he wasn't at war. And it's like, I spent, I've got dinner with him the night before. I spent a lot of time with him and his friends, like hours. And I've met, you know, two of his colleagues. But you're a psyop, dude. But I'm a psyop. That's right. They don't. Yeah, that's right. That's right. I'm a psyop. I don't believe you. Yeah. There you go. There you go. But it's like, you know, and his friends are like, you hear their frustration and you see their DD-214, like their background. You're like, is anybody seeing this? And then you have these people. I think it's fine. And I think he would even say it's fine to go after the experience.

50:40be like i don't know maybe that was bullshit maybe he was psyoped but when they then they go after his like background as like a war hero it's like come on it's a lot man it's a lot and it's no one wants to deal with that no and anyone all these whistleblowers are watching how everyone's reacting to this stuff they're doing their research why would anyone want to be put themselves out there like that just to get picked apart yeah be called liars and all this stuff 100 it's not cool but That's not fun. It's not fun. But I'm optimistic after this Wall Street Journal article. The reason being, I think it's really interesting.

51:16They say it's all part of this Air Force hazing ritual, which is really dumb for the Wall Street Journal to say. Because I think then all of the witnesses around UFOs and nuclear weapons, all these Q-cleared employees, all these guys, sue the government. Right. You know? Or Wall Street Journal, follow up and show the program. You're not allowed to do that to the American populace, dog. Literally. You can't do that. There's like federal torture claims provisions. And so they are fucked. Because I think it's totally fake. There's no hazing ritual. Or if there have been, it's been in little spots here and there.

51:49That does not explain the whole thing. So they kind of back themselves into this interesting corner. I think that's the problem is trying to blanket all of it ever. You know, it's like, I think so many of these things can be true. Personally, I think there's so many parts of it that can be true. There could be future human. There could be some grays. There could be some stuff that we're doing. It could be some stuff that China's doing. All these things can exist, I think. And it probably is. Yeah. I've been trying to figure out personally, well, how I feel about all this stuff still. Because I go through this ebb and flow of just kind of being like, I'm always going to be fascinated.

52:32Yeah. But in terms of my own personal beliefs, I'm just kind of always like ebb and flow with it. like I'm really in or I'm like, I'm like back in and I'm like, I don't know. So it's, it's, it's really, it's, it's really a, something that fluctuates for me, but I think I'm always going to be curious. I'm always going to be following it whether or not, you know, I, I believe it. I just think it's all fascinating, especially because it's all playing out on TV in Washington and, you know, we're having congressional hearings about it. It's crazy, crazy. what got you into it to begin with um well i mean i've always been in the sci-fi i've always been into the idea of of aliens and stuff i've never seen anything and if i do i probably can't say anything because i'm like the least credible person out there yeah of course fly low to saw of course he did but no i haven't seen anything and um but i've always i've always felt that there there is more out there and um i you know i've made a film of about a couple films with alien themes a few yeah yeah and um i think when i was filming ash when we were filming that movie um aaron pole told me about david grush because that video the videos of him with ross colehart has just come out and i saw that on my timeline but i was kind of i don't know go through it but then he was like yo man you got to check him out i believe this guy and aaron i you i don't i wouldn't have guessed that he was like really into the topic but um you know i watched it and then it kind of took me down the rabbit hole I guess but Aaron he's wild he talked to Bob Lazar he talked to Bob Lazar Aaron Paul talked to Bob Lazar oh my god they were writing messages to each other I'd love to be a fly on the wall for that you gotta get him on the show I guess Breaking Bad is kind of a Vegas-y show I'm trying to think where that would even have occurred I don't know how the connection is made, but he's a fascinating cat.

54:53Whoa. Well, Ash was amazing, man. I loved it. And this set kind of reminds me. I was texting you. I was like. This is not a set. We're in a spaceship. We're in an actual spaceship. And you have the coolest shirt. If you want to show it to the camera. We got Lockheed Martin, Aurora, antimatter, matter reaction, antigravity. It's crazy. I have another one, too. like the Lockheed Martin reverse engineering program. No way. Yeah, it's ridiculous. I think it's fascinating. That whole thing, that whole side of it has just been like, just super interesting to me. So interesting. The reverse engineering stuff and how much of that, because there's definitely weird deception and like, you know, psyops going on with aerospace and then how much of it is real?

55:42Because there's a lot of evidence that there's something there as well. Yeah. So it's fascinating. But it's funny that you said, like, of course, Fly Low is seen in Alien. When I first heard your music, I was like, this dude's in Alien. Because I was super into, like, Dilla and Pete Rock and DJ Premier, all these, like, 90s hip hop producers. And then you came on the scene. And I think it might have been around your album Cosmogramma or Los Angeles, like, 08, you know, 2010 era. and I just I saw you play actually with Thundercat in New York and I remember because like Dilla would mess people up because his stuff wasn't quantized and then I remember hearing your stuff and I was like this guy's on another planet like this is crazy hey well you know they made it okay they made it okay for us to go there yeah um so well you took it to the next level hey well hey doing my part doing my part yeah but you know it's it's funny though because i got you know just like everybody else probably i got a lot of flack in the beginning for doing my thing you know and being being that person like i keep bringing this up lately because it's so bizarre to people but like back when i was first getting on and the scene like around like what 2004 um i get a lot of Shit.

57:07Can I say shit? I'm a curse in this moment. Oh, yeah, yeah. As much as you want. I used to get a lot of shit for using a computer to make music. Really? Back in the day. Instead of an MPC. Yeah, you had to have an MPC, you know, or SP or something like that, or else you wasn't making hip-hop. You was making techno or computer music or whatever. They was just like, there's no way. There's no way. There ain't no swing in that computer. You can't swing with that. So it made me more determined to really get in there and get the sounds and to try different stuff. And I actually was really encouraged earlier on in my development to, you know, just to do the other thing.

57:50Just to try and go in different directions. And so I owe a lot to the people around me, really, who supported me to just, like, not do, not to do what everyone else was doing at the time. Well, you come from maybe the most kind of interesting musical family I could think of. Alice Coltrane is your great aunt. Is that right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then Marilyn McLeod is your grandmother. And she wrote Love Hangover. And she also wrote I Get High. I Get High is the Styles P. Swizz Beats sample. But no, it is I Get High too, right? Yeah, the original, Frida Payne. She wrote that as well. So you just come from amazing family when it comes to this stuff.

58:39They still was looking at me like I was crazy, though, dog. They were like, why does shit sound like hitting on some garbage cans? You know, like, what is this? And I was like, but you guys are crazy, too. What are you talking about? But yeah, I had to find my way, just like we all do. It is true. Your drums, I think, set you apart so much. It's like that plus the crazy synths sounded. It was like you leaned into the computer thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was like that plus the drums, which was like, yeah, it was like back alley, like crazy. And it was like, oh, my God, this is crazy. Yeah, yeah.

59:16Well, yeah, just went for it, man. Just went for it. A lot of support from my grandmother, though. She was the first person to put a machine in my hands. You know, she had was the 606, the TB606 or something like that. Like one of them drum machines with like, you know, those weird analog sounds and stuff in there. And she was just like, here, take it. I was just making drum beats and stuff when I was really young. And that was kind of what set me up. And then just being around different family, like my cousin, he was making music on a Mac 2CI. like old old mac like back when that was like super foreign to record on and um you know was watching him while i'm playing sonic the hedgehog he's like making stuff that sounds like prince and stuff and like i was just always surrounded by music and always surrounded by people trying to make stuff that makes sense you played sonic the hedgehog because it i feel like it's that sega like wave racer oh man no doubt and those loops man they still in my head man you know I still be sampling Sonic, too.

1:00:29Still, to this day. This episode is brought to you by PayPal. You know how a mom's bag has everything? Sunscreen? Snacks? A stapler? The new PayPal app is like that, but for your money. Shop, pay, manage your account, and earn rewards all in one place. And with purchase protection on eligible items, biometric security, and pass keys, you're protected at every step. Download the new PayPal app to get started. See paypal.com slash protection terms. That's awesome. Yeah, yeah. So was Alice an inspiration for you early on? My aunt Alice was such an inspiration, but I feel like my appreciation for her and her music grew over time.

1:01:17You know, like when I was, I feel like kind of in high school, all the stuff started to make more sense to me, and I was really starting to see it. But then when I went to college and really started, like, vibing there and, like, you know, trying mushrooms and stuff and, like, you know, leaving my brain and stuff, I'm like, oh, I get it for real now. You know, it was really starting to make sense. And I had just the deepest appreciation for it. But, you know, still to this day, like, I feel like every other year I'll go back and listen to music that she made and just be like, what was she doing?

1:01:51How did she do that? Why did she do that? That was a weird choice. Great choice. But, you know, like, I'm still still picking it apart after all these years. And you said you never saw her practice. I never saw her practice. That's crazy. In my in my entire and I, you know, she was like the Coltrane side. They're like the closest family to me in L.A. And so I spent a lot of time over there. I, you know, I went to this to the school right by their house. I walked from school to hang out over there all the time. And, you know, I would see them very often. I never saw her practice. Never. And I remember one time when I was like maybe like 10, 11 years old, I went over to the house and she had a beautiful piano, beautiful Grand Steinway piano, surrounded by, you know, her harp and all these amazing instruments.

1:02:43I went in there and I was like, hey, can I go play your piano? Yeah. She was like, well, are you going to play it? And I was like, I don't know, actually. What do you think she meant by that? She meant, am I going to get down, dude? Don't mess around. Don't go in there messing around on my piano. You're going to go in there and play it. You can go play it, but you better play. So I was like, I took that like, so I didn't do it. I never touched that thing ever. And she was very kind of spiritually tapped in as well, right? she was the most she was the most tapped in i would say yeah there's a lot of influence but i guess it would be more non-denominational leaning but um but yeah a lot of a lot of influence there definitely yeah yeah she's amazing i mean just hearing what's it i think it was turiya and ramakrishna yeah yeah yeah it's like that old blues kind of vibe and it's just so beautiful it's like ethereal and beautiful and be like where is this coming from it's amazing it's wild because it can always be you can always hear the blues and then it just goes to some other just crazy places and i remember being with her in in paris once she she had me come with her and and ravi they played a show in paris toward the end of her life and um i just remember just hearing her you know she was like a she was like yoda you know she was like a yoda type person where she was like real she was really tiny and you know moved very slowly very gentle with everything but you know she just when she went all that people boom was busting out all crazy you know like who is this person and it was like even even rodney her son he was like whoa what is going on you know so like she just had She was tapped in for sure to the source.

1:04:39Well, John was tapped in as well. I mean, I think he might be at least top three, maybe favorite jazz musician of all time. Are you a fan of his as well? Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think I was a fan of his first. And it's funny because when I was growing up and people would want to talk to my aunt and be around people who want to talk to her, I always want to talk to her about John Coltrane. All I want to talk to her about is like, what was it like being around John Coltrane? What was he like? What was he like? And she would always answer very humbly. And, you know, and then now it's like everyone wants to talk about Alice Coltrane.

1:05:21And it's really awesome to see that, just to see the turn happen. But I do wish she was here to see her influence in the way. Because I feel like now I'm hearing way more about her than him. even though he's you know i go to sushi restaurant it's always john coleshtray but like i just feel like the the young the young folks around are really vibing on our music right now it's really cool to see absolutely well she really i think just pushed the envelope and experimented obviously he was amazing too yeah um that is cool to see and it's interesting how music kind of like your ufo interest ebbs and flows and changes and how do you feel like do you feel like it's in an interesting place right now do you feel like it's in a weird place like what music music in general is that even a is that even a question you can ask or is it just it is what it is or like you know as far as the industry and all that stuff i i can separate it and think about it in terms of like the actual music itself and there's always some good stuff going always always always interesting you just gotta look for it yeah you gotta seek it out but you know if you're only gonna listen to what the charts are telling you then you're probably gonna be thinking it's it's all the same it's definitely weird that it's now filtered by is the person a good social media personality absolutely that's weird to me absolutely and like the numbers like people people even see like okay well they only have certain amount of listeners on spotify so they're probably not that good yeah they're probably not that great yeah they only got like 10 000 listeners every month so they're probably right it's this like infinite force ranking of everything absolutely everything's a beauty contest oh dude yeah and i feel like in the past 10 years you know the the numbers thing really got into the fandoms of rappers and stuff like you know first week sales and stuff like people are like kids are talking about rappers first week sales like selling what what are people selling anymore like y 'all buying records and stuff like what is what is it's just it's super weird that that's actually part of the conversation in terms of like is something good or interesting it's like what are they selling how much are they moving how many units are they moving like it's like old barbershop conversation or something that It's now become like a very, very popular bit of a conversation, unfortunately.

1:07:55Well, you started an amazing record label, Brain Feeder. Do you feel like, and I didn't even realize some of the people you had signed. Yeah. I was independently fans of and doing research for this. I was like, Taylor McFerrin. I was like, of course he signed him. Like similar drums. Of course you'd be into Taylor McFerrin. Oh, I love that. When I first heard, I think it was Degrees of Light. I was like, this is crazy. Like, what is that? It reminded me of you a little bit. And Daedalus. And I'm trying to think. There were a couple others on there where I was like, damn, I didn't even know you guys had worked together.

1:08:31Yeah, yeah. Brain Feeder has been going for a minute, man. It's been going for a minute. And it's something that I'm actually really, really proud of because it's, you know, something that is kind of flourishing on its own at this point. And I'm still doing a lot of work with Brain Feeder and curating and, you know, the A &R side. But, you know, that's like it's a machine that's moving and it's awesome to see. And maybe through that you can fight back a little bit where it's like, I don't care if you have 10 ,000 weekly streams or whatever. I love it. Absolutely. absolutely and um you know it's it's become a thing where it's there's a lot of risk in the personal sense because i want to do right by the artist but as far as everything else there's no risk for me you know i'm not trying to make money there i'm not it's really not my source of income like that it is but it's not you know at the same time so i just was like it's it's my a passion project but like i've been so grateful to be able to see all these different artists flourish and have their careers and you know they're doing their thing yeah being there yeah super cool is there anybody you're into now that the public probably doesn't know about oh yeah absolutely um there's a there's an artist just named thing okay this thing i love drum and bass some drum bass like classic drum bass but sometimes we'll mix up some like some like um uk like two-step you know kind of gary uk garage kind of vibe um you know smaller following uh-huh doesn't matter don't care but like i'd be in the gym it's like i'm doing a listen to amen breaks and stuff like yeah so it'd be it's kind of random but um and the cat puts out stuff like every week it's pretty damn i know it's thing yeah thing go check out that thing is dope thing is dope yeah sick man yeah and you've worked with some of the most legendary artists like yeah i mean one of the guys i feel like you're just probably friends first and then collaborator second is thundercat who i saw you live with in new york yeah yeah um he's amazing man he's so awesome and he he credits you for having helped give him a voice and because he was just playing bass primarily right and you kind of helped him out and you were like look man you should just sing over your over your tracks is that right yeah he was doing some oohs and ahs on stuff and I was like what's going on you know let's do it and and then there was one day I'll never forget and I think about it all the time we were sitting in my apartment my sweaty apartment in Northridge um and he just you know know we were working on some music i had these like like portable portable lunch tables they're they're like uh you know the classic picnic tables or whatever that's what i had all my my gear set up on and it was like surrounded by all these like medicinal marijuana jars and it was yeah he just looks over at me and he was like man i want to be your artist and i was like yeah what does that even mean you know what i mean like what does that even mean i never have never done that sort of thing before and um yeah we've just been going at man ever since we've just been going for it and it's it's been awesome to see and and honestly something i take so much pride in aside from my own work is you know just seeing how his music and his message and his influences affected the world.

1:12:15Yeah. You see, he's another guy who, like, you know, back in the day, I think, was always respected, like, as almost like an artist-artist, where it was like, he's amazing on the bass. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, like, in the last five years, I feel like people are just like, everybody knows who Thundercat is, which is so cool to see. Yeah. I was randomly at dinner, and they were playing his music just randomly, you know, and it just comes along. I'm like, dick. Let's go. yeah i love it i love it is he into alien stuff like i could see he seems like such a like a fun kind of goofy personality like i could see him being into you know i don't i feel like he's you know he's kind of like come over the house and i got like some weird alien youtube videos on and i'm like i turn them off real quick i'm not watching any of that stuff no one but i don't think he's really into it okay okay i don't think he's super into the the stuff um but you know because he's probably an alien.

1:13:10He doesn't want to be exposed. You know? Exactly. He doesn't want to like to expose it. Or maybe you'd act into it like you. You never know. Maybe. Maybe. We might be, you know, it might be walking among us. Right, right, right. Maybe. Maybe. I want to list some artists and you've either collaborated with them or you might have something to say about them. I want to get just one sentence about each of these guys okay jay dilla oh man um one of the greatest ever um very grateful to have met him a couple times close to the end of his life um i feel like i saw him maybe a week or two before he passed away it's crazy i delivered a check to his house yeah let's tell that you told me this so crazy i used to work at stone's throw um back in the day and he were you like you were like i was an intern yeah i was an intern there um a paid intern okay i was working there long enough they had to had to start kicking me down a little bit but um yeah i i was there and uh yeah he was finishing up the donut stuff that was that was happening uh mad live sound directions is he was doing that it was like he started mad live starting to play drums live and stuff and that was kind of like that the time i was there um and yeah they were they were finishing up some business and they they sent me over the house like yo um you might see something over there just you know be cool because he wasn't in really good shape you know toward the end he had like a blood disorder or blood cancer or something uh lupus and and i don't know what else yeah but something else i think something else was going on too but um but yeah i was i i got to see him the machines were still on you know he was in a wheelchair it looked really bad man i cried after i left there i was like i was fully in tears just because not only because of what i saw but just because i still felt the energy i still felt the power still i felt the the the the force it was strong still man it was really strong even toward the end and it was um it was really really um it was a lot but it was i was very impressed that even then you know everything was still lit up but he was still working on some shit was he good energy was he was he oh it was great yeah it was great i and you know i could tell he didn't want anyone to see him like that yeah and that was the thing too it was like i could i didn't really want to look him in the eye bro just because i was just telling you and they still was like holding it together yeah and he was at commons house right yeah i think they Yeah, they were living together.

1:16:19But yeah, his mom was taking care of him around him too. Yeah, you listen to some of those tracks, like that Isley Brothers sample, Don't Say Goodbye. You call it Bye or whatever. And you're like, oh my God, he's saying goodbye. And it's so ethereal. It's so like, it's crazy. It was a lot. Or Donuts of the Heart, that Jackson 5 sample. Yeah, when I was there, I think it was finishing up The Shining. The Shining stuff was happening. okay donuts was already done oh by then we were already like hearing all that stuff in the office and you know we were getting like donut deliveries you know and like there was like a couple beats coming through and we would like gather around the record player and like or whatever and just be like oh what is my own you know just be like blown away that's interesting so he was doing the shining after donuts well yeah i think there was there was still little ebbs and little bits and pieces that were kind of like you know still lying around for um for donuts like i think um can't remember exactly which one but there was some stuff that wasn't all finished okay it wasn't all finished and delivered there was like pieces of that and i think shining was finished by i think j-rock or kareem riggins back back then so okay yeah okay yeah stone's throw was so interesting like what a constellation of amazing you know peanut butter wolf started uh with him and charisma and san jose and then they came to la kind of for mad lib who was blowing up at the time yeah and like man was that an inspiration for you for brain feeder and just being there it was a huge inspiration um before i you know i was actually living in san francisco studying film and a buddy of mine was like, you know, we called him Crazy John because he was crazy.

1:18:13He was an insane dude. But he had great taste in music. And he was like, oh, you like hip-hop? Well, you need to listen to LP. You need to check out MF Doom, Metal Fingers, okay, Victor Vaughn, Mad Lib. I was like, okay, I'm going to check these people out. and I went and bought these records and my mind was blown and I was like, you know, just, yeah, started getting back into making beats. I made beats when I was younger, but when I was in college and like hearing that stuff, I was really, I got really into it again, like, and more so on the sampling side because all the stuff I had made before was kind of like synth based and, you know, messing with, um, groove boxes.

1:19:00And then that was like the gateway into sampling back into that stuff. um listen to Wu-Tang and hearing all that but favorite Wu-Tang clan member the RZA yeah of course yeah yeah producer yeah yeah yeah although JZA had some amazing beats too absolutely amazing beats absolutely the RZA heart and soul yeah but but yeah when I was when I was in school school i remember just being like you know what i'm gonna skip history of film school history of film and just like work on some beats right now i'd be doing that and then i heard about this label stone's throw that was in la back home and i was like you know maybe i need to the whole scene was in la too so i was like man i need to get out of san francisco go back and be around these people and get in that energy so that kind of led me back there stone's brought me back in a weird way.

1:19:58I love it. All right, let's keep going on the artist. Sorry, I was only supposed to give you a sentence. No, no, this always happens. I love it. We're flowing. No wonder your shows are like three hours. Yeah, man. It's always just, I think the best conversations are just free association, just what you're, you know, whatever comes up. Yeah, sure, sure, sure. Speaking of which, you just named two people I was going to ask you about. So let's go Madlib first and then MFD. Oof, okay. Madlib was definitely one of the most inspiring folks around,

1:20:40considering he was one of those people who was like, oh, it don't matter what you use. And I'm like, okay, well, I use a computer. They don't matter. Just make something. This episode is brought to you by PayPal. You know how a mom's bag has everything? Sunscreen? Snacks? A stapler? The new PayPal app is like that, but for your money. Shop, pay, manage your account, and earn rewards all in one place. And with purchase protection on eligible items, biometric security, and pass keys, you're protected at every step. Download the new PayPal app to get started. See paypal.com slash protection terms.

1:21:20It was like the output. But, you know, I remember being an intern and they showed me the box, you know, of like all the Madeline beat tapes or whatever. They were like, all right, you know, check these out. And it was like, it was insane. Just being able to like, it'd be like hundreds of beats. Or like he would fill up all these CDs. Crazy. And I would listen to all them joints, man. Just be like, whoa, what is going on? You know, it's just crazy. and it would make me feel lazy it would just make me feel lazy but also it was one of those things that just kind of lit the fire I need to work on this I need to keep going he was definitely influential in that and just the energy he was just such a cool, humble person and whenever I got to be around him it was just like it was a special day it was always a special day just because he was he just had such a an impact on on the whole community too like there was aside from you know the the stone's throw thing you had this kind of adjacent squad of of producers who would hang out kind of around like the any kind of stone's throw related event you know there would be like the cast like db and georgia and moldro ross g you know take and all these other great um producers who went on and go and do great things, we started to build a community kind of on the side of what they were doing.

1:22:54And, you know, we'd be out front of whatever parties they were throwing with little boom boxes playing each other and beat tapes and stuff. And that was really, you know, with, oh man, Madeline came by earlier, you know, with dudes who worked at, you know, Poobah Records and Amoeba, they'd be like over there like, yeah, man, he came in, he got this record, this, that, whatever. So it'd always be like, you know, legendary mad lib stories of what's going on um but always always really influential and really inspiring and he it wasn't quasimodo like an accident like that's how prolific he was like i think peter butter wolf like found that or someone was like dude this is actually pretty cool and then he kind of ran with it yeah yeah that's exactly yeah so crazy yeah man um and doom Doom was, I mean, to me, he's my favorite rapper still to this day.

1:23:50I think he's kind of, he mastered the persona of the character he created. He really did. He was really the villain, bro. I mean, all the stories you heard about Doom are true. I don't know. They're not legend. It's all true. like not showing up like not showing up to stuff like not showing up to stuff i remember there was there was a gig we invited doom you know um i had a show in in london and he was gonna play and you know we fly out to i fly out to london i think he's already there because he had been deported or something i think he was already living in the uk uh-huh so we're like great get doomed on stage you know um and i think as we were sound checking we're i'm in the venue yeah it was like this is the day i think day before because we had to set up that did the whole visual show the day before he canceled the gig uh and uh it was that's kind of unheard of i mean hear that oh okay well but doing that sort of thing in this business is not cool especially when you have flyers and all stuff promoting everything we actually got j electronica to fill in that spot which is also a really crazy thing to do is he's also like he's another guy where it's like you never know when he's gonna release his album or show up but i think i think he had reasons to come visit the uk and uh well he was uh is he married to like a rothschild i I didn't want to go there.

1:25:32I did. I did. I went there. I said it for you. I said he had a reason. I don't know what the reason is still. Very elite. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But he came out and rocked it. It was wild. But, yeah, it was really scary. And that was that moment. I was like, oh, wow, he really is the villain. He doomed me. I got doomed right here. But, man, you know, it's like after that happened, just how well yeah it's the villain yeah yeah yeah it's what he does i feel like he's just the most elusive interesting like i don't know it's interesting with him too where we're just talking about thundercat you know i feel like 10 years ago it was still more kind of underground hip-hop obscure circles where hardcore fans of doom now he's on tiktok like he is mass media it's like diggied him, man.

1:26:32It's wild. It's wild. It's super cool to see. I just, for some reason, I just thought of like the first time I met Doom though, I met him at, at peanut butter wolf's Halloween party. I was like bathrobe, man. Cause that was all I had was a bathrobe. I couldn't, I didn't have any other costume, but you had a bathrobe. I was like a dude in a bathrobe and some sunglasses. I'm Hugh Hefner. And, uh, and Doom shows up. He just got into town. He just, shows up as himself of course um and i'm like you know hey man how's it going how what's how you living out how long are you in town you're you welcome to la how long you out here and he was like can i trust you it's like that was like i hope so you know like that was the first thing that was his response to me and i was like okay he's a he's a special special cat very special Well, you hear him way back in the day.

1:27:29We were talking about this last time when we hung out. He was in a group called Third Base and he's in that song Gas Face and his voice is like different. He seems like more of like, like he's trying to be this like more square, like cut and dry rapper. Yeah, like Tribe Called Quest vibe a little bit. 100%. Early 90s. And then he goes off grid. I think he's homeless for a while, and he comes back as Doom, and you're like, oh, my God, his voice is different. Man, yeah, he'd been through something. He'd been through a lot, actually. But, yeah, there's something about it. He locked in. He figured it out.

1:28:08He just fully embraced the villain. Yeah. I think there's a really cool movie to make. Definitely. Why don't you make it? I want. You are the most qualified because you make amazing movies. I am the most qualified producers. A hundred percent. And estate. You knew the guy. You made music as close to that genre. You were on a track with him between villains and Captain Burphy. There's two tracks. Yeah, there's two tracks. there was a we're supposed to do ep together okay he had a whole bunch of stuff on his computer okay you know the classic yeah classic tale of like a hard drive full of stuff a lot of it there's a lot of my stuff on there um and uh what's gonna happen to that let's get that out i know estate estate movie and hard drive yeah um thundercat actually got to see him close to the And he went, I think he saw him at his house in London.

1:29:09He was over there. He was staying in London for a while. So got to have him talk about that. Oh, I'm curious. That's amazing. Okay, let's keep going with the crazy list. Kendrick. Oof. Actual genius. Actual genius. Weird little guy. I remember asking Kendrick, yo, man, what books are you reading? it was like oh man i'll be reading man you know power of now okay all right that's cool yeah i was so surprised someone like him who has so much to say and um very thoughtful didn't didn't read didn't like reading books and stuff i just felt like it was all in there i thought it was all books yeah i felt like he was always referencing books in his work he is referencing i wonder if he some people are just kind of tapped into and they're channeling yeah it's just like yeah actual genius he um you know the kind of person that shows up writes it on the spot doesn't know no fanfare yeah you know he came through wearing some like you know some some slippers with some socks on and wear some shorts and a hoodie and just kind of you know just kind of came through and killed it bro like um would you say best battle rapper of all time i wouldn't put in a battle rapper category personally i think he's he's he's definitely one of the most important voices in in music um to pimp a butterflies is a classic album amazing um yeah i i have one of those people too you're just like it's it's so you're like wow okay i don't want to get in your way yeah i don't want to i actually don't want to be i don't want to be near you i just want you to be able to exist and not you know like it's there's something very um he has this sort of um i don't know this vibe about him where he's just like super quiet yeah so maybe he's in his head he don't say much so i just was like i just want him to do his thing i don't want to interfere or interrupt whatever his whatever is going on his process yeah yeah yeah who's who's uh top five for you mcs oof he's up there um if not you know number two number you know top three at least yeah him doom man this is the worst question to ask i'm on camera i don't suddenly don't know any right they've all fallen off the face of the earth right now um what else you got i got i got a couple more i want to get through q-tip oh q-tip he's a super super inspiring dude um um amazing producer that um as well as rapper um i think he didn't get he doesn't get enough credit as a producer from my perspective yeah yeah really great beats um really great energy the voice um i don't know him that well but we tried to collaborate on some stuff But I think sometimes the thought of working together is better than the result sometimes.

1:32:45For sure. But I would love to have another go at that. Yeah, for sure. What about Aphex Twin? Aphex is interesting in that because he was one of those people that I listened to back before I was in college. without knowing who or what or why it didn't matter it was just dope it was just cool electronic music to me um square pusher amon tobin those guys were kind of like in my sphere i wasn't like fully in the electronic zone yeah um but those were like the kind of auxiliary pillars uh for for my ears um but and i always found a lot of inspiration from the music videos um chris cunningham videos and when they did that director series back in the day the dvds they just had all the collections of music videos from like chris cunningham michelle gandry and and so on um and i always just would run those we'd run those so much and just like just pick them apart just because you know being a in film school and thinking about music music videos like those were the the most cutting edge those were you know that series the director series i wish they would re-release those on you know 4k whatever things now yeah i don't think it'll ever happen Okay, final one in this series, Kanye.

1:34:24Ooh, you know, Kanye. It's funny, man. I actually, I never really had the like, I'm a super Kanye fan. I never had that thing. But I did love Yeezus. I didn't like it when I first heard it. then it really grew on me and i think that that album regardless of what you know he has become i feel like that album was really really ahead of its time and it set a tone for many years in music not just hip-hop just in music in general i think that sound um it kind of expanded and it people took it in different directions and um i think you know there's so much of like electronic music that has come from that and hip-hop and the intersection that's very influential stuff yeah but but yeah what a fucking nutcase crazy yeah man i'm not one of those kanye sympathizers man i fell off the train when he said slavery was a choice i was off that mother yeah yeah yeah i'm gonna get off now fully tripping yeah yeah yeah yeah i i just hope he's okay man because he's musically a big inspiration i love him i think he's amazing and i just wish uh i don't know i wish he would just stop whatever is going on now i don't know it feels like it's he's definitely trying to get a rise like it's like if there is a third rail he'll touch it yeah he'll hit it and then there's some other part where you're like is he even in control like i don't know well you know mental illness is a thing man yes it's a thing and people are capable of being very successful and mentally ill at the same time um that is a thing often they're correlated right and um also too like you know the dude he's just like yeah got probably like a lot of yes men around people like enablers people just like i mean he's got a cult you know people who are still apologizing for him constantly and just be like oh he you know he's just he's he's going through it you know but it's also got to be really hard for someone like him to have been at the top of yeah of the music pyramid or whatever and to now just kind of just be existing among other other great people not being the greatest top selling most grammy collecting person or whatever like it's got to be a little a little difficult for you 100 a little fall from grace there yeah it's gotta be it's gotta be it's gotta weigh on you who are your biggest inspirations when it comes to filmmaking you put david lynch in one of your videos and songs you already know did i just answer it for you i think you did um yeah david lynch who he was you have a favorite david lynch movie the favorite david lynch movie is probably a racerhead that's makes sense because of the movies you make there that is such a crazy movie yeah it's it's a crazy all this stuff is pretty out lost highway so i got into david lynch through being a fan of trent resner back in the day which is really i it trips me out when i think about it because he worked on lost highway he did some music for lost highway and i was following him at that time okay and then i was like oh what's this movie who's this guy lost highway loved it um and then i kind of got way in at that point and that was he was one of those people too um early on where i was like oh maybe maybe i should go to film school maybe this is for me because I really love this.

1:38:39I really love this. And I think he also really got me inspired, aside from the filmmaking, more so like the living the art life, as they say, where you just kind of fully commit. You're fully in it. That guy's tapped in. Yeah, you wake up, you smoke, and you get to work, and that's your life. Just create. Yeah, that's your life, and that's how I live my life. sans the smoking part i've it was weed but i've given that up a bit um but yeah like um seeing that and seeing that it worked for someone and that they've made their their best some of the best things it's like okay it's okay for me to be this way oh yeah you know it's i can i can do this and i can live this way and it's okay you know you kind of make sacrifices the you know you have to have like whatever that regular life is um it's almost like his life itself is art like you see him doing the weather in the morning and i remember i ended up at his house because of some tm you know transcendental meditation benefit yeah and he was giving some speech and it was about you know it's like all you gotta do is tap in twice a day you know the old tm thing and i was like this guy's on another level like he's on another planet right now and He's getting downloads and he's truly amazing.

1:40:08And I feel like a lot of filmmakers try to do the David Lynch thing and they fail. Like they get so hard. Yeah, well, I think the issue comes from people still feeling like they need to satisfy the audience and have some sort of like making sure everyone knows what's happening and having closure. And it's like, there's a difference where I think with his work, it's more so about how something feels versus how something, what it means or what it's supposed to do or where the story is supposed to go. It's more so the feeling that it gives you. And I think he always tells people that you know what it means, even if you don't think you do.

1:40:53Yes. Yeah. And it's it truly I feel like he'll break a lot of sacred cows or, you know, do things that you're not supposed to do. But it just works. And yeah, I'd say Blue Velvet for me is one of my favorite movies. Oh, it's so good. And it's so good. I love that one, too, because it's a it's such a good gateway David Lynch movie because it starts off, you know, like most movies in a way. It starts off kind of simply in it. Actually, of all the stuff, it is kind of more commercial-leaning. So it's one of those ones. It gets weirder. This episode is brought to you by PayPal. You know how a mom's bag has everything?

1:41:36Sunscreen? Snacks? A stapler? The new PayPal app is like that, but for your money. Shop, pay, manage your account, and earn rewards all in one place. And with purchase protection on eligible items, biometric security, and pass keys, you're protected at every step. Download the new PayPal app to get started. See paypal.com slash protection terms. And they have those moments. I'll never forget the scene near the end. Spoiler alert. You know what? They deserve for it. If you haven't seen Blue Velvet. Can you show a clip of this? Can you show a clip? I might be able to. We'll try. Maybe a frame? Yeah.

1:42:17We can throw up a show, a little frame, for sure. All right, all right. So the frame is when, what's the guy's name? What's his name? Kyle McLaughlin? Kyle McLaughlin, yeah, the main character. When he walks into Homegirl's apartment and some shit had already gone down, and there's the detective who's, like, wearing a yellow suit, and he's just standing there. He'd already been shot in the head, but he's standing there still. I love that image so much. it was so haunting dude like that kind of thing it's just so surreal and such a kind of like wait is this a mainstream movie is this not but it's just one of those things like that's you should even see his painting background yeah right there because that's like that's just like some uh yeah some bugged out totally and i feel like it's a juxtaposition between this like suburban like kind of fake yeah light vibe like in the first scene i think is like some dude watering the garden or whatever and he like chokes himself fire truck going by all the yeah yeah yeah yeah he's he's the best man and so you like how many years have it been like eight years that you've been making movies now or have you're maybe before that on a smaller scale or how long have you been making movies um well if you want to go there yeah um for a while i i started messing around with camera a long time ago when i was a kid um when i was in film school i made a short film called use me which won the audience award at the time um and i was i've just been always messing around with stuff my friends have seen all my work but the rest of the world hasn't Dude, I love it.

1:44:07It's crazy. Like, Kuso and VHS and Ash are all epic, and they break your brain. Like, it's what art is supposed to be, I think. Like, it's really, they're all insane. So everybody got to go watch. Kuso was fun. Kuso's crazy, my favorite, I think. Kuso's fun because it's at that point now where people are reexamining it, and they're like, man, that movie, I love Kuso. But at the time, people were just like, what the fuck were you thinking? what are you doing? You can't do this. You can't do this. And it was, it was really right. That movie came out like right before you couldn't really do anything.

1:44:45It was like, right. When they started like, Oh, the cancel culture. Right. And I feel like I felt that coming on. Like, you know, just peoples were getting a little sensitive to stuff. And, but I feel like now because things have gotten so stale in a way, something like that kind of stands out. It's coming back. Yeah. I think, like, Gen Z, Gen Alpha, I think they're just like, fuck this. Yeah. We like good art. Like, it's all good. Some of the people who saw Ash were like, oh, man, I don't know. It's not like Cuso, man. I'm like, well, all right. Fair enough. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's definitely not Cuso.

1:45:22No, Cuso is the, will break your brain. Ash is a little more of a movie movie, like, structured. Yeah. Ash is amazing, man. And I feel like it like really plays on themes that are growing in the zeitgeist right now. It's kind of the AI theme a little bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's also, you know, it's a little bit of the pandemic COVID thing going on as well, where you have this kind of brain eating, like, you know, parasite that takes over. I don't want to spoil that either. You spoiled it all right. I might have just spoiled it. Yeah, it's true. Let it happen. Just let it happen. It's cool.

1:45:59But that was amazing. It's an amazing cast. it's funny though because when i think of that movie now i feel like if only i had done it now that i know so much about the you know the the lore the ufo phenomenon lore yeah it would probably be a little different or i would have a different take on some of the stuff that i did um how so I don't know off top, but I just feel like now I shouldn't be making the alien UFO stuff. Maybe the next one will be, but I feel way more qualified to tackle the topic now just because I've been so deep in it. But there are so many stories to tell. So many. There's so many that are, you know, one of those things where it's like, it's stranger than fiction.

1:46:55I was, you just took the words out of my mouth. I was like, that's what I love about the UFO topic is it is weirder than fiction. Yeah, yeah. And that's a cliche to say, but it's true. It's absolutely true. You hear some of these stories, you're like, what happened? And then you're like sitting in front of the guy and you're like, you have no mental health history. Right. And you were in a high position in government. Yeah, security clearance and all that. He's saying all that. Yup. Wild. Crazy. Wild, wild. But yeah, I find so much inspiration in just listening to the stuff. Whether or not it's true or not, it doesn't matter.

1:47:28It's like, I just find it fascinating. I'm like, yeah, keep talking. Well, I can't wait to see the Fly Low UFO alien movie. Neither can I. Neither can I. And neither can my friends because I can't stop talking to them about it. So they're ready. I love it. it's one of those things where once you get go down the rabbit hole it's like hard to not be annoying about it like i know i i really had to just try to just not go there but you know some people be like all right so what give me the doubt what's going what's been going on you know and you always get looped back in you get tired of it you're like oh this is crazy there are all these psyops there are all these bullshit people and then you take a break and then something happens you're like fucking back yeah yeah true true yeah man when that when that damn um because i used to really fuck with um jeremy corbell and george knapp but then when jeremy corbell went on that whole tangent about the the missing page and the fact that he yeah his name was taken off of the whole thing and it just really rubbed me the wrong way the whole thing he made a big old stink about it yeah it was weird and it was obvious that it's like it's not about it's not about you yeah yeah it was like that that's an official government document and what really got me was matthew brown met schellenberger before jeremy right so it's like and he's not putting a cover letter promoting his podcast or so like i didn't i didn't quite get you're gonna separate the Matthew Brown interview in the three parts to next week for the next episode of disclosure yeah I like Jeremy but yeah I mean I'm still watching this shit so obviously I do too but it's just it's it's all the stuff just makes me it it makes the unease part well that totally well Matthew Brown also requires a follow-up like yeah the stuff that he said it was like you know I I saw these documents, immaculate constellation.

1:49:28Here's the, maybe the weirdest, most interesting thing. It was like, I figured out immaculate constellation. Lou Elizondo's name was tied to that program. And then Lou Elizondo's testifying with Michael Schellenberger saying, um, you know, I can't confirm or deny whether I was read in basically saying I was right into this shit. So it's like, Lou, like tell us, man, like, and then you have Corbell, like doing speaking tours with Lou and stuff. So it's like, let's take this thing a little bit further. And then Matthew Brown gets into, he just tweeted the other day i don't know if you saw honestly oh he tweeted the weirdest like it was like talking about how the white house has like a crystal ball basically like they have some proprietary ai that like predicts future timelines which is from a story base like if i were in trying to be inspired for like a movie like so interesting but like it's like dude what where are you getting that like it's that's fascinating like that would be crazy if true crazy if true And I want to know, and we DMed a little bit, but Matthew, if you're out there, follow up with me.

1:50:27I know you said you wanted to talk. Because that's insane, if true. That's fascinating. And implying that, like, what else did he say? He said a lot in that interview, too. He said a lot. He said a lot, and he said that there is a God, but that we're in kind of like this prison planet, and that these beings are kind of like captured by some of these beings. What, we're like an energy source or something like that? An energy source. Yeah, we're a resource. That's what he said, yeah. Yeah, I don't know. That's kind of dark. I don't know. I don't know if I want to believe that that's it, you know?

1:51:03Hopefully there's some more meaningful shit going on. I hope so too, man. We're not just getting mined. I wouldn't be surprised though. But they'll stop eventually. They're like, hey. You know what's funny though? I keep thinking about this shit. Aside from the Barney Hill. Yeah. Yeah. Any of the black abductees out there? Well, is it like that is that is we talked about this last time. That is the OG, you know, abduction. So but that's a great question. I mean, aerial school, right? Aerial school for sure. Then there's that little girl who says she says in space, there's no love and we have love.

1:51:48And so that's why the being wanted to come down and interact or whatever. I think that in space there's no love, and down here there is. There is love. Yes. So. But, yeah, like, they're not. But you think the ratio is a little off. They're not taking no black people at nighttime, coming in your crib, and, like, taking it. It's for some reason. You think it's a lower percentage than the percentage of the population? Or, I mean, maybe it's just not reported or something, but I don't know. I find that really fascinating. If you could find a book of black abductees or whatever, I want that book. Audience, let's get the stats on that.

1:52:31Yeah, yeah. It's a funny thing. Yeah. I don't know if they were the first, but the first very documented. That is interesting. I don't know. Well, Flylo, this was an honor. That's it? No. How long? I think we won three hours. That was three hours? this is amazing man i'm uh anything else that we're missing here or what i'm trying to think we might have got it man we might have got it but keep fighting the good fight man thank you bro i will and you too and i'm doing my best yeah but play some more than beats though y 'all don't know that that's his beat in the intro to the show like yeah i found i figured that one out oh man most of my beats put some more beats on dude i can't i can't be talking to you about beats i'll tell you to do it i can't tell you keep going okay yeah okay keep going i need to i need to but uh it's therapy you know but then i hear your beats and other people who i like admire and i'm like i can't make beats it's supposed to be fun first okay it's fun first man and like have fun you know and just explore you know if something happens great but like just have fun with it that's the thing i have to remind myself yeah you know like i have so much pressure when i sit in the chair yeah to do anything now um that i have to remind myself that like no one has to hear or see or anything like i can just have fun doing this isn't that interesting about art where you start and there's no self-consciousness and then you become this thing for other flying lotus you're like a concept for like other people but you're like still in your head you're like i'm just this dude yeah but maybe sometimes when you sit down you're like i gotta like adhere to this level of quality that i've done absolutely and it's a daunting thing to just have a catalog and a lineage and a history and all this stuff but at the end of the day i know that people can hear when i'm having a good time i know it that's beautiful i think y 'all can hear it yeah you know you can hear when i'm inspired and when i'm having a good time it's like it's obvious i think do you sometimes look back at your life and you're like damn like this is stranger than fiction like like it's a movie the amount of people you've intersected with and your own insane career and then how much you've been able to do in cinema and you've done I mean deeper cut people know Captain Murphy that you rap to and hip-hop production like everything do you ever I do and I'm I feel like I just feel very grateful man I feel very grateful every day I have written on my refrigerator be grateful because I am it's just I have the best job in the world and I have so much love and support for all my endeavors you know of course some people don't like what I do some people like this some people don't like that oh Cosmogram was the only good thing you did it's fine you know but like I'm I'm having a great time I'm creating stuff and I'm I always try to hold on to that part that the the innocent part of of that because it's it's they want to take it from you you know as soon as you start putting stuff out they want to take that and you know your management you got managers and people in your pocket and your families and then people want need money and you got to like support you know and the legal aspects of music and the ownership and the yeah instead of just like creating yeah and it's all all gets in the way of of the fun and all gets it gets too heady so yeah try and trying to hold on to that man is is a thing and like kind of trying to always stay inspired, always chasing whatever that will keep me happy and inspired.

1:56:26It's a thing. I love it. Well, I don't know if I'm going to start making beats again, but maybe I'll send you some samples because that it's funny. I have a little bit of an encyclopedia mind with the UFO stuff. And then it's, and then it's samples. It's crazy. I was so shocked when you started like, you know, dropping, dropping tunes on me. I was like, dude, you know your thing, man. I mean, I love it. I love it. I don't know. Well, it's more impressive to make this stuff. You got to send me some playlists, man. I'll send you some stuff. I'm sure you've heard everything that I'm sure you're deeper on all this stuff.

1:57:03I may know a thing or two, but it's still nice to hear where your ear's at. But I'll send you some old soul. I'll send you some samples. Come on, dog. I will. Let's get it. You promised me those samples when we first started talking. I feel like that was early this year and I still ain't got nothing. Okay. Okay. I'm going to send you some samples. I will send you some samples. I know you're a busy man. You know, you got, you got a lot going on. So I give you paths, but I'm, I'm, I'm waiting. Okay. I will send you samples and you can do so much more with these samples than me. So I really need to send you samples.

1:57:35Yeah, get sued. That's what I'm getting. That's what's going to happen. You can't really sample anymore, huh? It's just that you got to just interpolate or whatever. It's a wrap, especially, you know, where I'm at, you know, people like ready to, flag because you're so big and whatever you want to say about it they know i'm they're looking yeah so like it's it's not fun you know so like that's why i end up doing a lot more keyboard stuff and less sampling just because it's like why did that because like back in the day they would clear sample like you think about like they would yeah no they wouldn't well i'm just thinking about like uh juicy fruit and to may or whatever or like i don't know upside down from diana ross and you know it's like you're taking the whole song like that's not even sampling is generous or whatever you are literally taking a loop from the song and then putting some drums over it or whatever yeah like so like i look at that and i'm like why aren't they getting why isn't there some big legal thing with that maybe some of the samples were cleared they were clear but a lot of times it's not necessarily the artists who will sue you it's their kids uh you know like that the grand grand kids coming after you know like because they're in charge of the estate right and they be listening right like that robin thick pharrell blurred lines marvin gay with a bass line yeah whatever yeah that was bad luck though that was bad you think that was just like really like too much yeah yeah yeah you should have saw something interesting saw someone yeah you should be looking over your shoulders doing that kind of thing yeah yeah yeah that was that was an obvious base yeah that was kind of maybe a little rip-off well it's hard to say i don't know I'm usually pro the person taking the stuff.

1:59:22I am too. If you're doing something new with it. I am too, but again, you can't speak for the estate. And being a person who's, you know, my grandma, she wrote Love Hangover. And people sampling her music is how we ate for years. Yeah, totally. I love that song, by the way. If there's a cure for this. But, you know, people sampling that was like, you know, Bone Thug sampled it. like um will smith sampled it like so many people had sampled her stuff and yeah man like we we probably would have been out on the streets if it wasn't for you know people clearing those and then you get i get high radio yeah yeah that was that's how we we ate so i i totally see i know the game i get it i get it people got to eat so uh yeah that makes sense and she deserves all the credit for that i mean what about didn't she do stuff for lamont dozier back in the day too i believe so i don't know though actually so i don't know what on a different under a different uh there was a group or something because he would lamont dozier was in one of those groups i'm blanking on which one but he also had a solo career and he was a great solo artist but i thought she might have written something for him but put me on dude tell me that'd be awesome uh i mean look people have been telling me stuff like that though um like she was she had done some stuff in her motown era that i hadn't heard you know my grandma was around she was like more so writing trying to write new songs and trying to you know write jingles and stuff so she wasn't really focused on the back catalog as much it was just like when those samples and things would come up and like even the free to paint i get high i didn't even know she did that until the styles p i didn't even know she did a song without getting high dude i was like what grandma i had no idea that's a beautiful song the original is amazing it's like ethereal and opulent and like just really amazing sound i feel like writers back in the day in that motown era were the most underappreciated like you think about i think about the motown roster obviously like greatest of all time maybe record label maybe ever and but like really the linchpin i feel like smokey robinson who was writing all the stuff for everybody else i'm like damn like how did you write This episode is brought to you by PayPal.

2:01:59You know how a mom's bag has everything? Sunscreen? Snacks? A stapler? The new PayPal app is like that, but for your money. Shop, pay, manage your account, and earn rewards all in one place. And with purchase protection on eligible items, biometric security, and pass keys, you're protected at every step. Download the new PayPal app to get started. See paypal.com slash protection terms. It's wild, man. And, like, some of the session musicians, you know, they would call back and stuff. That would be part of the sound. That would be part of, like, the foundation for all this great music. And then they would sometimes get sick of writing, and they'd be like, we want to be up front.

2:02:47Mike Thundercat. Mike Thundercat. There you go. That's a great example. Or I remember, like, McFadden and Whitehead, like ain't no stopping us now like they were writers before you know a lot of it yeah yeah my my grandma was doing she had her own music at the time too and you know i don't think much happened with her own stuff her own personal music but yeah there was i think a lot of those writers were musicians and wanted to have a career singing and you know maybe didn't pop off but they could write so but it's a it's a thing i i would see still um she wrote for junior walker too yeah yeah yeah i loved you it's awesome but yeah man like even in in modern days you see it there's just there's people who was like see it she was like a songwriter but she was like kind of like a background character didn't want to and then yeah she eventually was like you know what i'm doing my thing i'm not gonna show my face though yeah never never yeah world that's she won that's the move right yeah you're that big yeah and you can just hide incredible yeah yeah maybe she was inspired by mfd i was thinking about that dude like man he really did figure it out didn't he he figured it out damn yeah i was funny because i i only just made the connection to the gladiator mask oh dude it looks the same i just didn't what you just said it connection i was like oh yeah that's wild yeah so he must have been basing it off of gladiator because gladiator i feel like that i don't know where the mask comes from but that is like the same mask it's the same mask yeah because you have it going it goes below the chin yeah whoa that's trippy yeah man he his stuff is so like the metal fingers beats and stuff too it was funny man when i first got into that stuff like these are some of the worst beats i've ever heard well they're just like raw as hell and then eventually they're like come the best beats you've ever heard well he would just take well they were all named after roots yeah you know and then he would just take like a doobie brothers loop and just throw it on there and throw the worst snares on and then eventually you're like okay i get it it just kind of worked yeah absolutely okay yeah yeah i love it man well round two yeah all right we'll actually finish this actually wrapping up i could talk to you for hours man fly low this was an honor true honor and uh hopefully we come back when you are making your movie your crazy movie i would love to i would love to and um Thank you for having me.

2:05:36Honestly, it's so cool to be on the other side of this, man. Oh, man. I appreciate it. And I owe you some sample. I'm now publicly being held accountable for this. Yeah, yeah. I need it. I need it. It's time. It's time. I might not put it out. If you did, that would be a life moment for me on the order of like probably more important than anything I've done. You know when you do a thing in the domain, you kind of know you're okay at or whatever. You're like, all right, fine. this would be so much cooler for me. That's got to happen. Send me some shit. Let's get it going. Send me some shit. That would be crazy.

2:06:14That would be. Appreciate you, man. Thank you. You know, that just got me thinking. Like, you know, Joaquin Phoenix provided Pusha T with a beat? No way. Do you know about this? Nah, nah, nah. I think like that King Push song. No way. Yeah. I don't know if he gave it to him and it was produced by somebody, but yeah, it came from Joaquin Phoenix. Joaquin Phoenix gave the beat to Ye. So when I got the beat from Ye, it was, yo, Joaquin gave me this beat. That's interesting. Really weird. I've been hearing about some low-key producers. Robert Pattinson be making beats? No way. Yeah, dude. Is it good?

2:06:49I don't know. I've been trying to get them. I've been trying to get the beat. That's crazy. So just for my curiosity, I gotta know. Oh, wow. Gotta know. Oh, that's so cool. Yeah. I just don't know how to do drums. I'm so good at the sample selection. And then I just always sucked at drums. Do you program them in? Yeah, just MIDI. That's why. Oh, you got to play them. But I don't think I can play them. I just, I don't know. You can. Really? Don't knock it yet. Just try it. Just try it. The click and the beats thing is difficult. It's difficult to get a vibe from that. It's really difficult. And I actually do that sometimes knowing what it's going to sound like.

2:07:33Like sometimes I want stuff to sound rigid on purpose. Yes. But like it's only then because I just cannot. And a lot of people do that. A lot of people just click them in and all. I just cannot do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If I want that feel. Yeah. But like you got it. You just got it. But I remember like there's a Kanye interview where he's like, I can. He says he, I mean, he's amazing. amazing but he was like i could never figure out drums he was like my drums didn't slap like dilla he was like my drums were not like travis scott like yeah but his drums he did his thing with he does his thing with what he's got you know and i think i think you know doom did his thing but when you listen to early kanye like his first track ever for rockefella i think was beanie seagull and jay this can't be life on one of beanie seagull's random mixtapes and you hear the drums and you're like these are garbage like these are not good drums yeah and then half the drums are like impeach the president you know fucking generic ass shit but you just gotta try sound for sound don't do like the whole kit don't be trying to play the whole kit just do like just do some hi-hats first play those in play the hi-hats in you know you can even quantize them later but just put the hi-hats in okay you know do the snare okay kick okay but another thing for you yeah in that case yeah because now you put me on yeah is do your drums first oh and then try to form your sampling around the drums versus using the sample trust me okay yeah it's like i have trouble with that sometimes like because finding the right pairing can be really can be really challenging yeah but like if you set the drums first and you get a good groove yeah with them drums then something else can happen then maybe you might think i feel like you're more optimistic than me but i will try oh man you can do it you can do it just gotta have the time appreciate you man yeah all right yeah all right we're actually done actually done quick heads up for you guys american alchemy merch just dropped it's all super high quality 100 cotton embroidered hats clean designs i wore the logo tee on rogan it's up now go to americanalchemymerch.com to check it out thanks for the support it means a lot

2:10:08Thank you.