Meet the Nuclear Missile Guard Abducted by Aliens

26:57So I hope you love it. Because it did occur at the same time. And so he gave me Bob Jacobs' phone number. I called Bob Jacobs. We discussed this. I had additional experience when I was at Vandenberg. And I was able to watch him in at—not in at minute. I was able to watch Atlas launched. And it had gone up. Now, I'm underneath the missile at this time at Vandenberg rather than from the side. And I'm watching this missile in a stage. But before it staged, that means the first stage dropped off, second stage took off, this yellow orb came over and tracked the missile. It didn't go around it or anything.

27:41It tracked it. Then it staged, and then it continued tracking, which meant it wasn't a fuel leak. Besides, if it was a fuel leak, it might have blown up. And I had relayed that. And then Bob Jacobs thought maybe I had witnessed what he had witnessed. But the timing was not right. First of all, when he saw the missile launch, he saw it come up through the clouds. Well, this was a cloudless day when I saw what I saw. He saw his bad experience in September. It was closer to May when I saw this happen. Now, you know, I don't know. I had asked one of the sergeants down on the launch site the next day what happened with that missile.

28:26And he just told me if I was wise, I would keep my mouth shut. And I did just that. I kept my mouth shut. So you had already seen essentially a UFO, which I think at the time they used to call tagalongs because they would often track missile trajectories. That's what he did. It stayed right with the missile. That's amazing. And in 1963, we have another example of an F-8 Atlas missile being tracked by this sort of tagalong. And it's even in the report. And this was, I believe, a month or two before the Bluegill triple prime test in, I think, September of 1963. The sergeant told me I was wise to keep my mouth shut, and I figured I'm wise.

29:05I'm going to keep my mouth shut because I didn't want to get into any of the problems that, you know. I was getting out soon in May. I was going to get out in June. I just wanted to get out and leave it alone. So that's fascinating because in May of 1964, you see this sort of tag along UFO. In September of 1964, Bob Jacobs, unbeknownst to you during this test on video, sees a UFO shoot a dummy nuclear warhead out of the sky. And then I want to get to this is the, you know, kind of the core experience that you had was also in September of 1964. My core experience was in September, right. And what happened then?

29:52Well, I was assigned to a Minuteman missile. I was assigned to a Minuteman missile site. And the guard shack is right next to the gate. There's a fence around the missile site. And it's got ATT alarms on it. Do nothing, really. The site itself is well lit. It has like a stadium lighting up there. And it's rolled in. And I was on the night shift. And it was foggy. And so that kind of appeared like a dome over me. You could probably see 30, 40 feet from where the guard shack was. And I could see the missile site behind me. But if I looked straight ahead, I just saw a wall of fog. Basically, the sergeant had come and delivered a lunch, which would have been 2 o 'clock in the morning on average, your night shift.

30:55And so the timing would have been right around 2 o 'clock because the sergeant had just left. And so I'm sitting there, and next thing I know, I see this shadow in the fog. I'm looking ahead, and I see the shadow. And I see a man, which appeared to be a man or humanoid figure, emerge from the fog. And I thought, well, what the heck? Did the sergeant walk back? And that's my first thing. Well, the sergeant walked back and I couldn't figure why. But then the next thing, this figure kept coming towards me. Now, it had like a trench coat on. Really? Very similar to the raincoats that were issued to the officers.

31:40And he had a cap on, which could have—so my next thing, well, I wonder if there's some officer checking up on me. But as it got closer, I realized this was not what it was. And I could feel it in my mind. I mean, it was like it was—it started driving hold of me. And I became really frightened. And as it approached me, I tried to pull my pistol. We had 38 police as part of our gear. And I tried to pull my pistol, and my right arm was paralyzed. I couldn't move it. I could move my body, but I couldn't move my arm. And I became more terrified. And it became closer to me. Something, I can't see the face in my brain.

32:28If I try to see this face, I can't see it. It's a blank. but whatever it was was terrifying me. And whatever it was had control of at least my right arm. And I was standing just outside the shack and I backed into the shack just instinctively, I guess. And I got myself back to the back of the shack and there was nowhere else to go. And the figure continued coming towards me. And there was a shelf at the back. There was a telephone on there and it was just a shelf. And I can remember distinctly pushing my back into that shelf and trying to push the back of the shack out. I was like a rat caught in a trap.

33:10And the terror was just, I couldn't describe how, I was just terrified. The next thing I know, I'm out, you know, and I don't know if I passed out or it's just blank at that point. Right. So then I come to, and I'm inside this, it's a circular room. I'm not going to call it a craft because I didn't see it from the outside, but I'm in this circular room. And I'm on my knees, and there's about a two-and-a-half, three-foot circle that's clear. You can see through it. and there's this figure on my right-hand side, and it's communicating to me, don't look at me, don't look over here, just look through the circle.

34:01And, you know, it's weird because it's not words. You know what it wants. It's like he's, it's very definitely a command, but it's not in words, but you know what, you know, I don't know how other people have this psychic thought process or anything like that. But one thing, it was not words. It was just I knew I was not to look at them, just look at the circle. So I'm looking at the circle, and what you see initially is just this gray fog, basically. One of the things I noticed at the time is that I would expect a breeze or something cold to be coming through, and it wasn't. It was like there was a barrier, but it wasn't like glass.

34:43It was just clear. And all of a sudden, this kind of clears away like clouds splitting. And there's a post about 100 yards down the street on the opposite side of the room. Now, I'm on site D5. And this is site D11, which is across the street down there. I'm familiar with the site. I don't know which one it was. It's easily identifiable by the side of the street and the orientation. And it's just getting light. And I can see this truck pull up to the gate. And it was a flatbed truck, a long flatbed truck. It had a lot of long pipes on it. And the guard came over to the right side of the truck and obviously was getting ID or checking whether it was driving.

35:39went over, opened the gate, let the truck in, and then the clouds closed up. And so I'm still looking through this hole, and I'm still just, you know, just keep looking through the hole. And I kind of raised my eyes to look around without looking over. And there were the opposite me, about six, ten feet away, were these four figures sitting on a bench. and I could see that the wall of the craft, I'll call it a craft now, I could see that the bench was just a continuation of the material of whatever the wall was. And whatever lighting was in there, the figures were celebrated, like the light source that's behind or from the wall, but very, very consistent.

36:31I mean, there wasn't like bright lights or anything. Effectively, the room was pretty dark. So the figure seemed silhouetted. It appeared to me like a baby had a large head and smaller body disproportionate. The eyes were discernible because they were darker than the skin features or whatever. A lot of people say they were, you know, these creatures or creatures, beings, whatever, were some sort of suit or something like that. I couldn't really tell that. but basically a silhouette with just slight features available. And there were two on one side and two on the other side with a space in between that I took to be some sort of door out of this room or something like that.

37:19And that's about it. I mean, that's the next thing I know. I'm laying on the floor of the guard shack. There's like a little porch right in front of the door to the guard shack, and I'm laying with my feet off the porch on the ground, and this being is sitting on the porch and has my head at its lap. And it's saying to me, it's communicating again, it's communicating, I'm sorry, you know, we didn't mean to scare you. He says, we just, you know, we didn't mean to scare you, but we had to have access to the site. So we needed the intelligence, is what I was gathering out of this form of communication, that they just needed access to the site, and I was in the way.

38:17And so... This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome? That's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required. Compatibility and availability varies 18+. I really felt comfortable. Like, you know, I felt like, well, this is okay. He's not going to hurt me, you know.

38:53So I was fine, you know. But the other thing was to keep my eyes tightly shut. It did not want me to look at it or see it. Keep your eyes shut, you know. And I apologize. I'm sorry that we scared you so much, but we needed to have access, and you were in the way. And he says, no, I'm going to leave, and I want you to just keep your eyes shut. Just, you know, don't get up. Don't do anything. Just stay there with your eyes shut. And he left. And I did just what he said. I laid there for maybe 15 minutes with my eyes shut. and I was glad to see him go, frankly. Then I finally got up and looked around, and the sun was just, it had come over the, there's a ridge of mountains behind the, what we call D sector, probably a quarter of a mile back, and the sun was coming up over that ridge, and if you look towards the ocean, you could see the light coming, you know, lighting up.

39:57The ocean, it was kind of a beautiful sight. And I looked over to my right, and there was a little chipmunk on the ground. And I just felt so much love for that little chipmunk, you know. I felt like I was joined with that chipmunk, you know, one living creature to another. And the little chipmunk kind of just looked back at me and kind of scurried away. about 20, 30 minutes later, the time would be probably around 6, 37 o 'clock, my relief came. Now, the missiles, 50, 60 yards off the main road, there's a little road that goes to the missile site. And, you know, my relief came down, relieved me, and then they were all delivered by these Air Force Blue pickup trucks, four-door pickup trucks, basically.

40:57And I could have gotten their four-door seat in the back. I could have gotten inside, but I didn't want to. I'd gotten back, and I put my back to the cab of the truck, and I pulled my feet up. And then they went and picked up the other guards. And I was just real quiet, and they were asking me, what's wrong? and I knew something had happened, but I couldn't quite put my finger on it. Something profound happened, and I was confused. And it was cold because it had been a foggy morning until the sun came up and kind of burned it off, but it was still cold. And I was just trying to watch what happened.

41:40I couldn't figure it out. And by the time I got back to base, well, I couldn't remember anything. Now, I didn't remember this particular thing until two weeks later, roughly two weeks later. And I was aware that something had happened, but I couldn't put my finger on it. I'd try to put it aside, and it was just something that nagged at me. But then I got up in the morning, apparently on the day shift because it was early morning. And all of a sudden, and you know, I've heard of paralysis sleep where people have these experiences. I wasn't paralyzed. I woke up and all of a sudden I got flooded with this whole experience that I just told you.

42:29And it wasn't a dream, I could tell you. It was so real. I've never had a dream like that before, and I've never had that happen since. It was real, and I knew it was real. And I linked some Venetian blinds, and I picked them up and kind of looked out. The sun was shining. And I looked over, and my roommate was asleep, and I kept thinking, God, what's this? I need to tell somebody. This is critical. You know, there's some entities got on my site. And I got up and I got dressed and was going to breakfast. And I thought, no, this is crazy. I'm not going to tell anybody. They're going to put me in a sight board.

43:11And then it was like I got something in my mind says, no, don't you tell anybody. You keep this to yourself. It's like there was a preset command or something like that. I think it was so vivid that it was kind of released. They wanted a time lapse between the event and the time that it came, you know, that I was aware of the experience. It's almost like that was so vivid that it was okay. Like there was a release of the command not to forget. And so, but now I do. This episode is sponsored by Z Biotics. I rarely drink alcohol these days, but on special occasions, I still enjoy having a couple of drinks with friends.

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45:21Remember to head to zbiotics.com slash Jesse and use the code Jesse at checkout for 15 % off. Thank you so much to Zbiotics for sponsoring this episode. Did these beings say who they were? No, no. When I had my head in his lap and he was apologizing, he said that they needed to get the information on the site. the data out of the missiles. See, in the missile, there's, at the top of a Madden missile, there's like a donut on a toilet paper roll. There's a room that has the electronics equipment in it. It has a separate access door to it. And inside there are all the, they were big old computers back in those days.

46:11See, when the missile gets the launch command, then that's it. in order to keep somebody from sabotaging it or stopping the launch, everything takes place in that little room. And that's where the crew does the maintenance on the missile and everything like that. There's a door that actually opens into the silo. And so they needed to get in that room and probably to those computers and launch things. That's where I'm thinking that they got the data. That's basically what I'm speculating. They used the shack essentially as a point of access for this? No, no. Okay. I was at the shack, and they just needed me out of the way, basically.

46:58And as he came towards me and I passed out, I was out of the way. So you were just between him and this electronics room, essentially. Well, there's a fence with the ADT that I'm in front of the fence. Got it. So somehow they got through the ADT and got into the crew access area and down into— I have to assume because I'm passed out at this point. But he did say or communicate that they needed the data from the missile. So my assumption is they got down in that crew area and got whatever data they needed. The first being you see has a trench coat on and looks like this shadowy silhouette. Yeah.

47:41No, he's, I just can't remember its face. Okay. So kind of hard to just recall. The face terrified me. I know the face terrified me. I can't tell you what it was because I don't think my brain wants to remember, but it terrified me. I don't know that was the guys or I have no idea what it was, but it terrified me. Yeah. I know how terrified it was. You can't dream. I don't think you can dream that kind of terror. It's like a rat that's trapped in a corner by the cat. But it was wearing human clothing, a trench coat. It was very humanoid. I mean, humanoid, probably 5 '10", probably very human. And the trench coat didn't seem otherworldly.

48:23No, it wasn't otherworldly. That's what made me think it might have been an officer. Yeah. And so maybe he was kind of in disguise or something. Yeah. You know, I didn't know what was going on. That was my first impression. But then when my arm was paralyzed and I felt him in control, he had control of me. I say he, but he had control of me. I'm assuming it was—I mean, I'd read it as a male figure because they're trench coat. Women don't wear trench coats. And originally I thought it was an officer. Then I realized it was something else. And then as it moved towards me, it had control of me, and then I couldn't pull my weapon.

49:05Oh, and I tried to scream because I wanted to scream. And all I could get is a little, ah! I couldn't even scream. Wow. And then I remember my back pressing into that shelf and then the blank. Do they look like the typical classic gray alien? No, it was more like a baby's head. It didn't have—I don't recall ears. I know there was no hair. You could tell that even in silhouette. I mean, it was a round head with big eyes. But gray aliens have large heads proportionate to their body. These were different in some way than the typical gray. I visualize this. The chin was not pointed. You see so many pictures of pointed chins.

49:51It looked like a baby's head. Interesting. And one of the things, the necks were like a baby's neck. You know, you see pictures of the aliens with these thin necks and the big head. Yeah. Well, those necks couldn't hold that heavy. You know, the necks were proportionate, like our necks. You know, they're round enough and strong enough to hold up this big head. What color was their skin? Well, to me, it was just all dark. I mean, it was just dark. It was, like I say, a cello, maybe dark gray or... But hard to tell because the lighting was low. The lighting was obviously backlighting of some sort.

50:35And they're communicating to you, don't look. No, they're not doing anything. They're not communicating. They're watching me. Okay. They're just watching me. So the other figure that... The other figure, the humanoid figure. The humanoid figure. That's the one that did all the communication. Okay. Okay. And that one is communicating don't look as soon as— That's the one saying don't look. That's as soon as you're in the craft. He's saying don't look, don't look. Don't look. Just keep looking through the hole. That's all it was. And you're looking through the hole, but then at some point you see these four— Well, when they closed up oversight D11, then I raised my eye.

51:09I didn't lift my head. I raised my eyes. So my view is, you know, through the top and end up, But I could see towards the wall, and I could see the four figures. You mentioned being extremely afraid around the original humanoid figure. What did you feel when you're in the presence of these four beings? I feel very comfortable. I felt everything was okay. I wasn't afraid. I wasn't—just everything was okay. It was almost to a point I'm just curious what's happening. But no fear at that point. The fear that terror had gone away. Did you ever have the thought, why am I not afraid? Because this is an extremely anomalous experience I'm having.

51:53Yeah, and I also wondered why I felt so comfortable. I was just comfortable, you know. It was like I was experiencing something like that, but almost like I'm viewing myself almost. I mean, I wasn't viewing myself. It was from my own. Were they making you feel comfortable, do you think? Or obviously this is your interpretation. They may have, you know, there's a blank period between passing out in the shed and waking, you know, or coming to in the vessel now. They could have given me a sedative or used telepathy to make me feel comfortable because it went from one extreme to comfortable. And then on the guard shack floor to ecstasy.

52:37You know, I felt so good sitting, you know, with my head on this lap. You know, like I just felt wonderful. You know, if I were to relate it to something, I'd say, because of my background, it would be a baby suckling at its mother's breast. You know, that just nice and warm and comfortable and mommy's there and I feel okay. The world's okay. And the world is good. And then it did say, and it goes back to your original question, did he say anything else? Yes. Or community thing, yes. is that they're not going to let it go to nuclear war. They needed to stop these missiles from launching. They were trying to get the data on how to, which was their task then, and that they weren't going to allow these missiles to be launched.

53:31They weren't allowed us to go to nuclear war. In essence, that Earth was important to them. And then there was another thing that not every species, there were more than one species, and they weren't all as benevolent as they were, this creature. It's like, you know, and if push came to shove, there could be some real issues over who's going to control, you know, once they take, at that point, once they stop all the missiles, they're going to take over. There's a sense I got. So there are multiple non-human species. This species happens to be sort of doing a recon on the nuclear codes and how things work, and they're presenting themselves as benevolent.

54:22And do you trust, you know, coming away from the experience that they were benevolent? Yeah. I think I just lucked out. Did they say which species they came from? He didn't tell me any of that. It's just basically that the Earth was—the sense was, look, this is a plan that's important to us, and we're not going to let you destroy it. And if push comes to shove, we're going to intervene. The love that you felt for the chipmunk, was that representative of some larger flooding of love that you felt for all beings? Yeah, it was like I had this feeling of ecstasy while I was laying on the lap of the being.

55:06And then it just carried over. Once he left, I kept my eyes shut for a while. And then I got up and there's this chipmunk sitting there. And I just felt this connection. I just love that little chipmunk. And I felt connected to it. Like, you know, here's another living being. and we're part of the, there was no separation. We were in the same, we were just living beings and there was something good about that, you know. This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks.

55:52Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required. Compatibility and availability varies 18+. I know it was dark, but what did the room look like if you had to describe it? Do you remember the walls? The walls were grazed, which fell away. So the lighting in the room, I don't know how much came through the hole in the floor or how much was backlighting on the wall. However, the figures were backlit because they were silhouetted. So, you know, the walls must have had some sort of condescensate that made them put the figures in the silhouette that I was looking at.

56:42I could distinguish the eyes as large, but not all of shape like you see in a lot of the typical pictures. They were just big, big eyes and dark. darker than, say, the skin. Did the room look indistinguishable from something man-made? Oh, no, it was man-made. The room itself looked like it could have been molded. Yeah. If I were to say just one giant piece of plastic, one giant piece of gray plastic. Well, that doesn't sound man-made to me. No, it is. Well, it might not be. I mean, well, there's a difference between artificially constructed by deliberately and man-made, human-made. Oh, you're talking human-made.

57:27Yeah, yeah, yeah. It had to be an awfully big mold. I mean, you know, you're talking a room that's maybe 15 feet across. Why did it look molded? Because of the bench. Okay. The bench that the four entities were sitting on. And you could see they were silhouetted. They were very dark. But the wall and the material was grayish. So I could see the material. And also the floor was concave. In other words, they were elevated somewhat above where I was on my knees down there. Any seams or rivets? So it was sort of smooth? and smooth even even to the point it looked like i could fall through that hole if i got too close i mean it looked like a hole yeah but there was no there was just the rim but there was no you know there's not like a seam or anything there like it was part of the same material except it was transparent so it looked it sounds like a classic saucer that you hear in other alien abduction stories.

58:37I guess so. At the time, I didn't know what other, especially from the inside, you know. Yeah. Have you looked into any other stories that sort of align with yours? It's really hard to find anything that describes the end. I mean, you know, I hear these bright lights and these creatures obviously didn't want bright lights. You know, they have big eyes. The room was dark. And you hear people, well, they wake up in this room and it's all lit up and it's bright. And it doesn't seem consistent to me because if you're going to have big eyes, you must be dark adapted from wherever you come from. What time of day was this?

59:14You were taken in the morning, is that right? Okay. It started right after the lunch was delivered, which would put at about 2 o 'clock. Okay. Okay. When I'm on the—in the morning, when I'm looking through the hole, well, it's light enough to see what's going on on the ground. like just sunrise basically like just kind of like dawn not well lit but enough that you can discern I could see the truck I could see it was loaded with pipes I could see the guard walk over to the window I could see him open the gate and the truck drive in that was all but it was like dawn it wasn't a sunshine lit scene The sunshine came when I looked and saw the chick monk, and the sun was actually coming over that bridge of mountains.

1:00:11And it was kind of pretty because if you look towards the ocean, then you could see the ocean kind of with a kind of yellow color to it. And it felt so good, you know. I mean, I'm sitting here, and everything just felt good. And so this whole event was morning to, like, afternoon-ish? No, the whole event was, say, 2 a.m. to— Oh, 2 a.m. Okay, 2 a.m. till probably 6 a.m. I'm not sure when sunrise is. Got it. So there's two. And that's when Bob Hastings asked me over the original, when he was on George Norrie, when I got cut off, he had asked me about a gap in time. And I had not thought about that gap in time.

1:00:56But between 2 a.m. and the time the entity came to me. and say 5.36 in the morning, well, there's a gap. And I never even considered that. And that's when I got caught off because I was just going to say, hey, I hadn't considered that. So there's a gap. Now, what went on in that gap? We're talking, say, 2.30 to 6. That's three-some-odd hours, you know. It's more than what I'm describing to you. So I have no idea what went on. So maybe some lost time. It's lost time, definitely. You know, I have my friend Lonnie that is a doctorate in psychology, and I had told her about this, oh, 20 some odd years ago.

1:01:46And one of her specialties is regressive hypnosis. But she didn't want to put me through regressive hypnosis because when I was relating, she thought I was so upset. She felt this wasn't her pay grade, you know, to deal with somebody that, you know, she done with past lives. She didn't deal with the experiences like I had. When you are guarding this shack from like— I'm not guarding the shack. I'm guarding the missile site. The shack's for shelter. When you're guarding, when you're at the shack and you're guarding the missile site and it's early morning around the time of, you know, 2 a.m. to 6 a.m., are you generally interacting with anyone else?

1:02:31No, there's no one there. Okay. Guards are, we were just put out there all by ourselves and we spent the whole shift by ourselves. We were supposed to, this is probably, I'm not, we were supposed to make a call when the missile was in the silo. We were supposed to make a call every half hour. and to command post. But we didn't because it was just a given. Call me in the morning. They were supposed to log it. Well, they logged it all night long. They slept. We didn't sleep, I think. But we didn't want to get caught sleeping. But if you were in command post, nobody can get into command post without going through knocking on doors and everything like that.

1:03:18So they would take turns. sleeping. They would log all the calls, and we would just fool around, you know. And it was boring. You know, you got there in the middle of the night, and it's dark and foggy. You're nothing to do. You can't even read, because we sneak books on some of the sites. But you couldn't even—at Minuteman, you couldn't—it was too dark. Even with the bright light, You couldn't, because the light was focused on the silo itself, on the launch complex. And, you know, you have a little light like one of these up here, barely lit. So basically, we all hated Bennett Man. I mean, one of us hated Bennett Man.

1:04:06And sometimes we'd get, we had phones because they would call in from, we'd had to make the call into a command post. So we'd call each other. When you're in this room or UFO, saucer, whatever it is, and you're hovering above the base, do you see what they're trying to do or monitor? I don't know why they showed me that. It's just like they could. They were trying to show me I was in a craft, I guess, and that, you know, showed me something that I'd be familiar with. Do you know what day in September this might have been? No, no, no, because it was two weeks later when the full memory came back.

1:04:51And then, so I couldn't tell you what particular, I probably could have at the time. Did you tell anybody at the base? Oh, God, no. Did you know of any UFO activity at Vandenberg Air Force Base at the time? Not at the time. You know, all the scuttlebutt was—if you went out to D-Sector, which is 20 miles away from the base, and your scuttlebutt, you know, to scare the new guys, there's Bigfoot's out there, and he's going to get you. But there was nothing about UFOs or even talk about it that I know. Do you ever speculate that the UFO you were in was the same UFO that maybe shot the dummy nuclear warhead out of the sky in Bob Jacobs' case?

1:05:31They're just too close together. It was September, September. So this was at night. Bob Jacobs was in the daytime. But I'm sure the activity was coordinated. It could have been the same craft. Could have been, I don't know what their structure is out there, how many of them there are. Have you seen any UFOs since then or had any direct contact experiences with things? Not direct contact. We were on Fourth of July, where I live. The park is along a wash, and it's a great place to watch the Fourth of July fireworks. And we were sitting there, and this would have been probably around 2000 in that vicinity.

1:06:21We were out there watching fireworks, and somebody said, what's that bright light up there? And I looked up and I said, oh, I think that's Jupiter. And he said, no, Jupiter's over there. And I said, oh, no, it's pretty bright, isn't it? So I had binoculars, and I looked at it with binoculars, and it was going side to side. This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome? That's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks.

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1:09:01And I handed the binoculars to another guy, and he said, look at this, is that moving? And he says, yeah, it's moving. So then he gave back to me, and it starts into a zigzag, and then it goes into a zigzag, and then it kind of shot off towards the north, and so there was no real interaction. And I said to this friend, I said, that's a UFO. And so he was kind of skeptical, but I said, well, Roger, it's something identified. We don't know what it is, and it's up there in the sky. So it's a UFO. I don't think it's a flying saucer, but it's very unique. That was the only other time something. And there were like five of us that witnessed that.

1:09:53Is there anything else worthy of relaying that you haven't told me about the core experience in 1964 in September? No, because to me, it's three segments. It was initially the entity coming out of the fog and the terror I felt inside the craft, we'll call it craft, and then on the floor of the guard shack and waking up and looking at the chipmunk. You know, when it came flashing back, that's when I went back and tried to put the time together, like getting on the truck and knowing why I felt so odd when I got on the truck. Well, it was because I had had this experience, but it was fading, you know.

1:10:39And by the time I got back to base, it was gone. You know, it was, although there was this nagging feeling that I knew something had happened, but I couldn't tell you what. But it really nagged at me. It was, you know, this uncomfortable feeling. Something happened, but I don't know what. Did you have any physical marks or chips implanted or anything like that? I could tell you just, and I don't know if it relates or not. I recall at one time, I had like a sinus deal and I blew my nose and a BB came out. There was a little round ball with a flat side on it. Really? Yeah. But I didn't co-relate that to that experience at all.

1:11:25I didn't connect it. Well, when was that? Oh, probably a few years later, you know. But that's really interesting. Yeah, it is now that I look back. A metal BB came out of your nose. Out of my nose, yeah. And I believe the nose is one of the most common places that people have sort of implants. I didn't connect at all. I just was, I thought maybe when I was a kid. Bob Hastings himself, who wrote UFOs and Nukes, is actually a UFO experiencer. and he wrote a book about this called Confessions. And he talks about an implant in his nose and then waking up with blood on his pillow. You did mention after the camping trip in 1988, you waking up with blood on your pillow.

1:12:09Did that have to do with anything that possibly was inserted in you? There are implants that have been reported in certain abduction cases. I was aware of the concept of implants and people finding blood on their bed clothing and so on and so forth. I never felt the need for whatever reason to investigate that further, like try to get an x-ray. I mean, if you went to a doctor and said, I think I have an alien implant in my head, would you x-ray me? I just wasn't prepared to go there. So I thought I might have something in my body, but I didn't really think about it. Well, in 2001, I believe it was, I was having breathing problems.

1:12:50I had a deviated septum. So I finally had some nasal surgery. And so I have that done to correct this problem. And I go in for the post-operation meeting with the doctor. And he said, he was like, I would say, in his late 60s, early 70s. He was shaking his head literally and figuratively. And he said, I found something in your right nostril that was so hard, I almost couldn't break through it. He said it was the damnedest thing. And he was saying, I've done this for many years. I've never seen anything like it or encountered anything like it, whatever words he used. And I'm kind of rolling my eyes and going, holy crap, I bet I know what it was.

1:13:29But what they do is they have a vacuum wand with a tube attached to a tank. And so they're roto-rooting your nose and getting cartilage out and cleaning up your nasal passages. So whatever was in there, they just sucked out and discarded. You know, to him, it was just some sort of biological anomaly. So he never saved it. So, you know, it was gone by the time, you know, he told me about that. I just did—it was quite a few years later. I didn't connect it. I just thought it was—I must have put that in there when I was a kid. It was—the only thing, it wasn't a copper BB. It was like chrome-plated or silk.

1:14:08Did you save it and test it or anything else? No, because I spit it into my hand, and I thought, oh, this must have been there for years, and I threw it away. Did you ever think, what is this doing up here? I thought I maybe stuck it in when I was a kid. You know, kids stick things in their ears. I stuck stings in my ears and my nose. So that's what I related it to. But now, later, when they talk about implants, I think, well, it still could have been something I put in my nose when I was a kid, or it could have been an implant. I don't know. Did you ever do any sort of hypnotic regression or see any sort of psychiatrist about this?

1:14:47I kind of was hoping Lonnie would want to do it, but she didn't want to do it. Did you ever think that there was some sort of trickery involved and somebody was messing with your mind? uh no it was too too vivid too real nobody could do what was done to me nobody could create that kind of terror nobody could evoke that kind of love i mean nobody could do that that was supernatural you know it was uh i mean the terror yeah i was a rat trapped in a box you know that but the love nobody could could nobody could do that you mentioned lonnie your friend who who has hypnotic regression experience. So you told her about this experience, right?

1:15:34How many people have you told? How many friends have you told? I told, well, Lottie was the wife of my best friend, and I told Mike, my best friend. And consequently, he had mentioned something to Lottie that I gave her the whole story. And then I had told a couple of people people that I kind of trusted that they weren't real close friends, but I had coffee with quite often. And I knew pretty well. I mean, we had a pretty good large group of guys that used to hang out at Starbucks and drink coffee and BS at night. Did you ever tell anybody who was stationed at the base with you at Vandenberg?

1:16:15No, no. Okay. I kept my, you know, it was, first of all, it was like if I wanted to, I don't think I could because it was like I was told not to. And not, you know, the beings that conditioned me or hypnotized me or something. I would try to, and then it was, don't, don't, you know, like. It was as if they still had some lingering control over you. Yeah, they had some control, and you don't say anything. Just keep your mouth shut. Because I tried several times I wanted to, and I couldn't. Did you know anything about UFOs at the time prior to the experience? Well, you know, everybody heard of Barney Hill and, you know, I had no real extensive knowledge of it.

1:16:58It wasn't, I mean, probably some, I've read stories, but I didn't focus on it or dwell on it or it wasn't a big deal to me, you know. Do you think about what happened to you now a lot, and do you think about the implications and meaning of what happened? All the time. And what conclusions have you drawn? John. Just that they're out there and they're not going to let us go to nuclear war, you know, and come hell or high water. And if they do, then it's their game, not ours anymore, you know. They'll leave us alone. I mean, this is the sense I got, that they would leave us alone unless we screwed up.

1:17:42What do you hope to achieve now by relaying your story to me? Hopefully, you know, hundreds of thousands of people at least get to hear your testimony. What do you hope they take away from it? Well, it's just one more. Like when I wrote Bob Salazar, I'm not in this for anything. It's just a piece of data that might be interesting to him or anybody else. It's just another piece to me is, you know, Robert Hastings' books got like 169 accounts in it. You know, if he updates it at number 170, this mine's a little more unique because he only has with me eight cases of the third kind. Close encounters of the third kind.

1:18:25So actually experiencing beings themselves. That's right. Only eight of his, you know, 167 some odd experiencers have had those experiences where they see beings. I do think, though, it's funny. I've had this conversation with Bob Hastings in the past where I say, did you did you systematically ask all of the whistleblowers who just seen crafts whether they've seen beings themselves? And he said no. And so if eight people have volunteered that they've seen beings, you have to think that number is actually just much higher. Yeah, I assume it is. I mean, there's lots of people out there who said they've seen.

1:19:05There's always the issue, you know, how I could tell this story and there's always going to be somebody who's going to want to debunk it. the first thing they're going to say, and has been said to me, well, you have no witnesses. You know, you were out there by yourself, so did you make this story up?

1:19:27Before George Norton, you had... Art Bell. Art Bell, okay. There was somebody that had... I had called in on Art Bell,

1:19:41and I did get through, And basically, he said, well, he would email me. He bought my email address that he would email me. He says, but if I find out you're screwing around or lying, he says, I'm going to make it very tough on you. Art Bell said this. Not Art Bell, the guy that he was interviewing. Ah. And so we had quite an exchange for a while. I told him, you know, pretty much the story. Who was this? I don't know. I tried to look back over my emails, and I could only go back so far. Describe him. Maybe I could figure out. It wasn't Bob Hastings, because I told Bob Hastings about this. And I didn't know Bob Hastings was one I had talked to when I called George Norrie, except he remembered that he didn't remember my particular talk, but what I had said to him.

1:20:35But he was on George Norrie being interviewed. When was this interview with George Norrie that you called into? Probably about, oh, seven, eight years ago. Okay. And so that's live for everyone to see people. Yeah, that was live. And the other one was live, too. And both are probably out there. So we could probably dig up the— I would like it, and Bob Hastings would like me to dig up the first one. The first one. Bill. But all I could do is go back over the—by AOL and see. But they're all erased. I can really go back. Well, describe the person who Art Bell was interviewing, and maybe I can help you out.

1:21:14He was very much like Bob Hastings. He had written a book. It was more extensive than just UFOs and dukes, but it sounded very credible. And the only thing he said is, you know, we had this exchange through seven or eight emails. And he said, well, he couldn't include me any further books because he couldn't collaborate it. Corroborate it. Corroborate it. Because you didn't have someone else coming out who was witnessing the thing. But he said, it's not something I could put in my book because I want to corroborate. Well, sounds like a decent researcher. Was the name Lindemann by any chance? I can't remember.

1:21:58Or Oxler? or okay i can't remember your name half the time no you're good um well i think you know stories at vandenberg are so compelling because not only like do you have a story happening the same month that was corroborated by florenz mansman who is the major who is in charge and supervising bob jacobs who's a photo instrumentation specialist so you do have a witness there but that happened the same month. And then you also have other stories at Vandenberg. Do you know who Jeff Nucitelli is by any chance? He's an interesting witness. And he and some colleagues, I believe, in the early 2000s, experienced this UFO.

1:22:39Between 2003 and 2005, five UAP incidents occurred at Vandenberg Air Force Base. The incursions began on October 14th, 2003, when Boeing contractors reported a massive glowing red square silently hovering over two missile defense sites. After several minutes, it drifted further east onto the base and vanished over the hills. This event, now known as the Vandenberg Red Square, was referenced by Representative Luna at the first hearing on this topic. Official Air Force records of this event are in possession by Arrow and the FBI. Later that night, while I was on duty, security guards at a critical launch site reported a bright, fast-moving object over the ocean.

1:23:27I responded to the incident. Chaos ensued over the radio as the object approached rapidly. I heard my friends screaming, it's coming right at us, it's coming right for us, and now it's right here. Moments later, I heard them say that it had shot off and was gone. When I arrived on scene, I talked to five shaken witnesses who described a massive triangular craft larger than a football field that hovered silently for about 45 seconds over their entry control point before shooting away at impossible speed. So Vandenberg is definitely a hotspot. It's one of these places like Malmstrom, you know, base in Montana, where throughout the years you have recurring patterns of UFO sightings.

1:24:13So I do think there is some sort of intimate connection there. Oh, yeah. I think this is an ongoing thing. I think it's going on right now. I think what my impression was that they're not going to, you know, they're going to be ready to intervene should we go, you know, let those missiles loose. But until then, they're going to stay in the background, although I'm not sure they're always in the background because there's a lot going on now that makes me wonder if they're orchestrating a lot of this steps towards this disclosure. You think the beings themselves might be orchestrating disclosure?

1:24:50Yeah, that's speculation. I don't know. Well, Richard, thank you so much for doing this. I really appreciate it. You're welcome. And, yeah, appreciate your courage and all the incredible detail. And I hope that this, again, allows other people to come forward as well. I hope so, too, because nothing else does get some people prepared to this ultimate disclosure so that they think about it, they're ready for it when it comes. And I think there's enough evidence out there, overwhelming evidence. And I think, again, we go back to nukes and UFO nukes, that well-researched evidence in one source. And there's thousands of sources out there.

1:25:34I'm trying to think of Project Blue Book. Who was the doctor? Jalen Hynek. Yeah, yeah. He came to, took the evidence, and he, you know, very brilliant man. Yeah, no, no, nobody who spends more than three days on the UFO topic comes to the conclusion that it's fake other than people associated with our nuclear programs or the DOE or the Atomic Energy Commission. So, you know, or the, you know, NDRC or, you know, precursors to, you know, our atomic program. So you have Don Menzel, who's, you know, this kind of deep state spook, you know, friends with Vannevar Bush held all the clearances in the book.

1:26:15He, you know, ran Bureau of Statistics for the U.S. He was dogmatically opposed to UFOs. You have J. Allen Hynek, who was opposed, but then, you know, later retracted all that stuff and kind of repented for the fact that he was opposed. you have a couple other people in official positions Edward Condon who wrote the first textbook on quantum mechanics in the English language people don't realize he was supposedly appointed by Project Blue Book on this independent commission in Colorado and it was supposed to, yeah the Condon report and it was supposed to go through all these UFO cases and basically be an independent check against Blue Book's findings.

1:27:00And then you find out that he was, you know, very close friends with Oppenheimer going back to, you know, their studies at Göttingen in Germany in the 20s. And he wrote the Los Alamos Primer, helped pick Los Alamos as the site for the Manhattan Project. The Los Alamos Primer was something that all employees had to read upon joining the Manhattan Project and wrote the McMahon Secrecy Act, which is in 1946, basically the precursor to the Atomic Energy Act in 1954, And which is kind of this cloak and dagger way to overlay, you know, atomic secrecy with UFO secrecy. So basically, you spend a few days on this, you become open minded, or you're dogmatically opposed because you're like, some sort of operationalized asset against the thing.

1:27:49You're protecting your own. Exactly. And maybe, you know, maybe there are a few contemporary examples where I don't want to say they're full bad faith actors, but, you know, it's probably easy to impugn a lot of their motives as well. But anyways, you know, even the latest head of Arrow, you know, our official, you know, again, modern investigation program, which is similar to Blue Book, it's probably just this fake hit job on UFOs. There's a guy named Sean Kirkpatrick who, you know, has long ties with the DOE, worked at Oak Ridge, you know, got this award from Brookhaven when he was, you know, a teenager and, you know, has all sorts of, you know, monetary incentives to say this stuff is fake.

1:28:30So anyways, Richard, I really appreciate you. And this is a lot of fun. And hopefully it shakes the world up. I don't know.

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