Pentagon Whistleblower UNLOADS on Alien Hybrid Breeding Programs (ft. Matthew Brown)

37:22I would not be authorized to confirm nor deny the existence of any ongoing or past program, especially as it relates to a special access program, either by name or trigraph. The modern hermeneutic on that is you were read in and you know all about it. You know, so the Glomar response kind of lost its utility. Everyone knows you're saying yes at this point. Right. So even a counterintelligent would know that that's going to be interpreted as like, you know, people are going to know that you were you were all over it. um so i mean yes that you know i'm paraphrasing i never brought the briefing itself to congress nor could i um it was years since that exposure and deleted and i never uh you know did anything like that um but that is how it was described i don't think that's accurate i think that is an intentional you know half truth uh included in the document to both kind of give a plausible history to the program, as well as a signature for, again, people that would spill it, or sorry, leak it later on, if anybody leaked it later on.

38:29Counterintelligence could say, okay, we know, you know, these kind of signifiers were used, so we know who was exposed to this material, and we can start searching. I've, again, through other sources learned that, you know, Macket Constellation is a relatively old program. It's an old mission, I should say, run out of the NSC. It was not created in response to Lou going forward in 2017 and revealing the AATIP code word or pseudonym. So, you know, again, we're in the Hall of Mirrors. So you think that was, the document was not reflecting the reality, which is that this had been a longstanding program running up to the National Security Council, and this was sort of being claimed by OSAP, AATIP, and these sort of modern, much smaller, you know, nominal kind of UFO efforts.

39:24Is that right?

39:28Seems to be the case. Yeah. I'd also say that since you're briefing senior leaders, you know, you're trying to just establish a high-level view of this, and also the people who own these programs get to have a voice on what information is briefed outwards, so that might be going on as well like we're only going to give them the bare minimum level of detail and hey we'll stick with current events um this is in 2018 uh black auras and black budgets or whatever that article was just a year prior so it gives a plausible sort of uh foundation to any senior leader who was not previously previously read into any other uap programs to kind of latch onto and say, okay, this is what it is.

40:12I don't have to think too much further. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because OSAP was a$22 million program. So I don't think of that as even being able to house some like 360 surveillance, global, ubiquitous, you know, yeah, Intel collecting network on UFOs. Yeah, and I would hazard to guess that because Immaculate Constellation is an operational SAP, you know, it doesn't actually own any of the capabilities it owns the mission and the tasking um the actual assets themselves the research and development for them the analysis is all going to be pushed down uh to the actual like functional components and most likely are in their own stovepipe saps and caps uh you know compartmentation all the way down yeah got it okay and some of the other things that your report mentions are just fascinating.

41:04CENTCOM, what is CENTCOM for the - Central Command. Central Command discusses cuboid formation of metallic orbs on USG networks, US government networks. There exists daytime FMV, what's FMV? Full motion video. Yes. And FLIR forward looking infrared footage of a formation of 12 metallic orbs skimming the ocean surface at high speed before dispersing in multiple directions. That's pretty wild. Yep. what's indopacom uh indian ocean pacific command indian ocean pacific i probably had that wrong actually but yeah all good large disk using clouds as concealment uh on usg networks there exists opir information opir overhead persistent infrared of a large saucer shaped uap emerging within a dense cloud formation.

41:55NORTHCOM, is that Northern Command? Northern Command, yep, USA. Jellyfish UAP crosses U.S.-Mexico border. SOUTHCOM, Southern Command, TICTAC detected by space asset in proximity of vessel. And, you know, that obviously makes you think of Nimitz in 2004 and other sort of TICTAC reports in and around the water, but this is much more recent. The TICTAC maneuvers at an altitude at or near local cloud cover and correlated electromagnetic signatures were collected by MASSINT. So that's the collection capability we're talking about before. What does MASSINT stand for again? Measurement and Signatures Intelligence.

42:34Measurement and Signatures Intelligence. In the available footage, the TICTAC UAP transits rapidly through the field of regard as it transits the ocean. It's wild. So that's this transmedium TICTAC being discussed. Yep, in proximity to a naval vessel. so wild so again um you know either it is interested in these military vessels i have to revisit my report so i don't speak out of school um but quite interesting that you have that kind of occurrence in a macket constellation with the triangle and then in this which is separate reporting streams separate exposure not exposures but separate intelligence.

43:19You have similar kind of behavior being done by a very advanced vehicle. Wild. And you also have kind of a taxonomy. So you have specific geometries that you list and general capabilities or attributes kind of associated with those forms and shapes and stuff. So just one example, table two is a disk slash saucer. you go over orbs before that, you know, triangles after that. But the disc saucer, you know, size generally range from a few meters to over 20 meters in diameter. Speed exhibits capabilities for both hovering and high speed flight, often making sudden sprints. Radar detection varies. Visual sightings are more common.

44:04They're often metallic silver or gray is common. So that's just fascinating. So do you think this is what is being sort of outputted by all of these, you know kind of collection so you do all these collections you know as part of this program and then you funnel that into some sort of ai analytical overlay or something are these attributes what comes out on the other end is that sort of your understanding that you're reporting those sections we are we are no longer talking about the immaculate constellation briefing those are separate intelligence uh sources okay and those those tables you're looking at um are self-generated uh based on my exposure to many things okay they're aggregated i would hazard to guess though that they match pretty closely to what's on the inside and independent analysis that's been done on the inside because the simple fact of you know we're all looking at the same data you're going to come to similar conclusions if you're operating in good faith yeah so kind of similar to dylan borland who i just had on You have like a core experience.

45:07In his case, it was seeing a craft. In your case, it was bumping into this document. And then you kind of vigilante after the fact are like, this is insane. I need to verify and look more into this and look at corroboration for this outside of just this core single document. Is that right? I mean, a little bit. I mean, again, I was exposed to UAP intelligence before coming across the Immaculate Constellation briefing and after. Because I was in the WMD mission space, these were incidents that were reported in our intelligence stream very often. Got it. So it was, you know, it wasn't like vigilantism.

45:46It was, this is part of my mission. So you knew of reports before seeing the Immaculate Constellation documents? Correct. of UFOs showing up at nuclear sites. Wow. Across all sources of intelligence, so whether it's imagery intelligence and all those different forms of it to signals, to human, to mass int, to sigint. I said signals, yeah. So even before IMCON, that exposure, yeah, definitely the fact of UAP was rapidly established in my mind. and just through the virtue of my job. Have you seen video that's stepwise clearer or sharper than what we've seen from kind of, you know, naval video, you know, forward-looking infrared coming out in 2017?

46:36As you guys know, I'm often doing shows that run three or four, sometimes even five hours. People see the finished conversation, but the real work is what comes before it. Weeks of reading and research, and then I've got to actually sustain that level of attention and detail in the room. live for hours. Sometimes I'm kind of groggy and I've flown halfway around the world for a single sit down. Obviously, I think that everything I cover needs to be handled really thoroughly. And with the utmost respect, I have to show up at my best for my guests. And for me, coffee just doesn't do that job. Too much caffeine and I'm absolutely buzzing through the first hour and I'm crashing in the second.

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48:44Yes. Wow. that's remarkable is that like a that's kind of a heavy thing to sit with i imagine the fact that you know well i i never saw any beings on the inside so i always uh not always i'm you know i can guess why because you know that there's probably a control system for those um all of this stuff coming out from these department of war you know data drops data dumps are just very fuzzy you know yeah and you so you've seen things that are way sharper yeah what's come out there i i would yeah definitely um also i mean there's the difference of seeing those kind of department of war videos uh on the inside in in near real time right and the kind of level of confidence you have in what you're seeing being truly anomalous uh and uh very relevant in your day-to-day mission versus seeing it uh in its censored form and its downgraded form on the outside so you know it's a i've definitely been exposed to a mix of quality both in terms of the visual fidelity and in the resolution of what this object is um but i mean you can't replicate the exposure sorry the experience of seeing stuff on the inside and it's like this happened yesterday right uh that definitely has an emotional impact and you know from a level of certainty like You personally feel very confident that what was collected on really occurred and is important.

50:19After seeing the Immaculate Constellation docs, does your desire to know ramp up? So obviously you have this sort of like smattering of reports that come in due to just incidentally, you know, you being involved in counter WMD stuff. These things show up around sensitive nuclear assets. So obviously you're going to run into UFOs through, you know, that job. but then you see this doc and you realize that we've kind of been comprehensively sequestering quarantining and you know really you know gathering intelligence on ufos globally do you then want to kind of like do a deeper dive oh definitely and you know on a more personal level, it was, okay, I'm early in my career.

51:09How can I get into the office that does this? How can I get a job working the UAP mission set? That was the personal motivation there was less, you know, go find all the details, kind of secret score-like. It was more of, okay, this is very real. There's clearly a lot going on that the U.S. government isn't telling its own employees um how do i get a job working this issue did you try to get a job in the ufo legacy program uh i'll just say that i figured out a few places where both my skill set would apply and the mission would overlap and um you know i was on that on that direction yeah and what would you describe your core skill set as man uh you know i was never formerly you know uh an analyst i was never an operations officer as kind of living in a nebulous world of of strategy right okay so my my uh skill set as it were fell under net assessment and strategic development so you the first term is kind of a in the military or the strategic culture of the united states net assessment being like you're basically weighing up blue force capabilities red force capabilities uh intelligence around all that both you know your domestic picture and your adversary's domestic picture and not necessarily coming to a conclusion about like you know how many tanks do they have this year and how are they're going to have next year.

52:50It's, okay, what does the United States need to do to achieve its interests given this net assessment of the state of play in the world? And using that to kind of drive our strategy in very long-term increments, 10, 20, 30, 50 years. And the grandfather of that was a man called Andrew Marshall, the Yoda of the Pentagon. There's a whole office to it called the Office of Net Assessment. Very interesting place. Yeah, they do kind of, like you said, kind of long-term strategic planning, which seems really like, you know, especially vis-a-vis China, where you have leadership that's entrenched for many years, that's not being cycled in and out.

53:28You know, it feels like a real deficit when it comes to, you know, U.S. planning. Yeah, I think we keep those cards close to our chest, rightly so, but maybe too close, because if not everybody's, you know, playing to the same music, you get a lot of wasted effort. And I think, unfortunately, that has occurred, both as a consequence of, you know, stove piping and then excessive classification, compartmentation, whatever you want to call it. What happens between you potentially wanting to work the UFO Legacy program and you saying, you know, being kind of exasperated and wanting to blow the whistle instead?

54:07I mean, it was really, you know, current events. I was just minding my own business, really, continuing my career. And because it was in WMD, that meant more and more exposure to UAP and more and more exposure to the communities inside the IC and the Pentagon that were tracking this and discussing it. And it really came down to, I guess, learning from people in that community that Congress needed whistleblowers, that this was not being managed correctly, that it was being withheld from both the executive leadership and the congressional leadership, that there is no oversight. This program has kind of gone rogue.

54:55um you know i didn't i've kind of developed in my view of of what uh that situation is but at the time it is kind of presented as uh you know this was this is a consequence of kind of cold war secrecy it's been out you know on its own for too long now we're trying to reel it back in without exposing capabilities um you know help us do that then there was another line of communication that was saying like people's lives are at risk both because of the security measures being taken to keep the secret the kind of corruption or unprofessionalism that has seeped into the program just by virtue of being so in the black so unilaterally managed and that there's potential external threats that are going to put these people's lives at risk.

55:51So that combination of no executive and congressional oversight, at least to the civilian leadership, plus people's lives being in danger is what pushed me to become a whistleblower. And in fact, I was asked to be a whistleblower. Even after hearing that information i felt like i didn't have anything that would be sufficiently useful to to congress um but were you asked by congress or who uh someone else who was who was um you know interfacing with congress and then you know kind of did a delicate dance of like here's here's some code words um yeah you should go it doesn't matter how little you know congress really does need it and And I followed that.

56:39And I think it's really important to note that before going to Congress, before trying to potentially work legacy and then becoming a whistleblower, you also reported this quote unquote spillage is, I guess, the term where you bumped into this classified special access program doc. And you realized you shouldn't have. And you also realized it shouldn't just be sitting there on the server. And so you reported it to the proper authorities. yeah that was years before becoming a whistleblower um i i yeah i'll just briefly tell the story um you know once i found out you know the proper process and kind of sat with it for a while like well i saw this thing i gotta tell someone at this point yeah so i i went to my first like sort of direct report showed it to him um he basically recommended to me uh delete that and pretend you never saw it and then he just left the room and i was like well damn uh old heads telling me that uh do i follow his advice or do i keep trying to do like what the procedures say um so i followed the procedure went to the next level of authority that person said okay you need to go to sapco uh special access program coordinating office um and report this so then i I went there.

58:04That was the third kind of reporting chain. And that's where I was told like, okay, you don't need to sign anything. Um, go away. Um, very mysterious kind of, uh, interaction. And then the file was deleted and I just went on with my life. There was no outcome from that. I just, uh, you know, privately came to the conclusion like, well, that was, that was real. Um, yeah, I'm going to follow their advice and not talk about that anymore and continue in my career were you able to independently verify that immaculate constellation was a real program outside of just this one kind of powerpoint you saw okay yes and this is through just other personnel who would know or yeah people that had placement and access as they say so you know i and you take their word for it are were they definitely not in coordination with one another were they in disparate sort of roles where they would have the access and knowledge Yeah, I mean, to the best of my ability to determine, for sure.

59:05And if it was just rumor, you know, that's probably not enough. But having seen the source material itself and gone through the anomalous sort of reporting process and having the broader context of exposure to UAP, no doubt in my mind, it's a real mission, real program. Does any of this have to do with the National Reconnaissance Office and their sentient program? uh i mean to a degree you know you could think of that as like an enabler to the mission um the sentient program would have come online to my understanding after like you know immaculate constellation had already existed but would have been integrated with it as you know leveraging artificial intelligence to to do sort of the sourcing uh and basically live detection and censorship or compartmentalization rather of these collection events to both maintain sort of the internal security control and then but more importantly to to get eyes on to an event you know rapidly to collect more instead of you know having to wait days or months again what about there's a program at the national geospatial agency called marsupial is that related at all no comment okay no comment um and anything dealing with like um cia's office of global access or rapid response or anything like that so i never was exposed to you know their relevance to the uap mission but i find all the public reporting that's been done on it very plausible yeah and so obviously these things are being spotted globally for me i'm like 100 percent on that, on these anomalous objects obviously showing up in aerial spaces in really sensitive military facilities, nuclear sites, national labs.

1:00:52That feels almost like you got to really be dogmatically skeptical, a bad actor, or not very smart to accept that that's true. And so Immaculate Constellation corroborating that we're measuring that is very interesting and, you know, I'd say remarkable unto itself. But to me, there's always this cutoff between that and like this multi-generational, you know, decades-long crash retrieval and reverse engineering program. Are you also confident in that? And are you as confident that we have, you know, the tracking over here of just these aerial objects as we are like nuts and bolts material that we're working on and we have NHI-derived tech?

1:01:39hmm i i mean yes uh no direct exposure to the reverse engineering program at least from my time on the inside um you know you meet people afterwards and make of it what you will i think there's enough there there though to uh to say that something like that is is ongoing and is ran out of our national labs for sure and our defense contractors most probably and that there has been successes.

1:02:12The...

1:02:16Crash retrieval program. I, I mean, I kind of wonder if that's a bit of a misnomer intentionally. So like how often are these things just crashing or if they are crashing, is it so much an accident as it is like, you know, is it more of a result of some sort of conflict between either between these things or have we developed some capability to bring at least a subset of these type of vehicles, you know, down. um and also you know do you think there's an archaeological aspect of that as well which i think is probably more interesting um because then you're getting into well that's kind of proof just through geological processes that these technologies have been here for a long time right if you're digging something up under you know tens of meters of sediment deposited on the ocean floor like that takes time to build up and do you think there is an archaeological component where we're finding these things.

1:03:10I do. Really? I mean, that's something that I've since come to both believe and kind of learn more about. Yeah, I think that's definitely one of the sort of secret aspects to this. Yeah, do you think that's more, I mean, Bob Lazar said that, you know, the craft that he worked on was from an archeological dig on the ocean floor and it came from the Navy. Interesting. Yeah, yeah. Do you think that that's more common maybe than actual crashes? I would, I mean, just my personal opinion, yes. I think shooting down these things, especially if they, the category of these anomalous craft that are non-human in origin is probably dangerous to do.

1:04:04but I am not briefed into the nature of our relationship with these beings and what level of cooperation or competition we have with them. So I won't make a value statement on that like some will where it's like, oh, we're shooting down our space brothers. I wish it was true, but I don't think we are in such a magnanimous position with these beings. Are you high conviction in anything when it comes to UFOs or anomalous non-human intelligence that is very kind of contrarian and goes against kind of the prevailing understanding of how these things work, either from an intent perspective or crash retrieval reverse engineering perspective or what the government's relationship is to these things?

1:04:55I don't know. I'm not from UFOlogy. Yeah, sure. I don't have the background or the lines drawn in the sand. I'm in the camp where there's no such thing as a threat. That's all government propaganda to the, oh, it's all a threat. So maybe that's contrarian. I think it's a mix. I think just like humanity itself, there's violent actors. There's good people that are violent and under duress too, or for good reasons. Yeah, I think, like I said, reality is more complicated than we're allowed to believe. And saying it's all this, it's all that is reductive and unhelpful. When you were speaking with George Knapp and Jeremy Corbell, you said these things might be made for purpose.

1:05:51As if they're like made to spec for specific functions. Yeah. What makes you believe that? So that's looking specifically at sort of the, you could almost consider them like tactical vehicles, things that are on the smaller side, especially things that are like irregularly shaped, where it looks like they have either things that are like, you know, custom configured antennas, or like manipulator kind of objects or parts of it that seem like it's for storage of physical things. um so yeah that that's kind of my personal analysis of of a subset of uap that was you know that i was familiar with that seemed like yeah they have some definite persis that's not an aerodynamic shape uh even if maybe that doesn't matter so much so much of this is like very simple geometry so when you have things that have more complex or you know asymmetric geometry my mind goes towards well it's fulfilling some sort of specific role task purpose and then you know you kind of see uh them interacting in areas where hey maybe they're picking up stuff um you kind of kind of lends weight towards towards that in my mind what would they be picking up uh you know they seem to be interested in certain mineral deposits so might be you know some level of extraction or sampling there um and uh it's uncomfortable but i think there's some sort of extraction and sampling of uh earth's flora and fauna possibly human beings yes and probably not limited specific subset of human beings i don't i so when we're talking about uh you know what crafters where i don't know if there's any relation to that uh you know i can have separate speculation that you know there maybe there's certain categories of humanity um that are more interesting to them but that's not uh from inside information that's kind of yeah my own thoughts Do you think that we've made agreements with the beings?

1:08:08Yes, for several reasons. I mean, the most defensible is just from an analysis of the situation. I come from international affairs, diplomatic history, international competition. And so looking at behavior to kind of divine intent, you know, capabilities only get you so far in that realm. The behavior, especially between human players involved, it does not seem explainable unless there is some sort of agreement both between nations and imposed or arrived at between them and the third parties. specifically related to like the secrecy measures, the lack of any sort of public or official disclosure.

1:09:01The military arrangements we've had in formal treaties, like there's that 1970 something outer space treaty where we agree to like notify each other. If we detect UFOs, that's, I mean, that's straight up an example of an agreement. Yeah, it's open source. Anybody can look it up. I think it's 1971 salt talks between, you know, the u.s and soviets and they're saying we have to coordinate around you know ufos showing up in sensitive airspace so yeah yeah and that there's some you know bits and information kind of picked up from the inside and since then from people that are positioned to know that that points towards yeah there is at least some basic sort of set of agreements between the united states and some sort of third party and most likely other countries have some sort of similar or alliance blocks have some sort of similar arrangement what do you think we're conceding and what do you think we're gaining through these agreements i don't know if we gain that much uh i don't think i don't think any level of altruism has been displayed i think it's more uh so we're being submitted essentially we have to make we have what were yeah or maybe you know also just agreements doesn't always have to be an exchange it could be being brought into awareness that you know these are the rules um you now humans because of your capabilities and population spread are being you know rising to our level of attention this is kind of how earth operates at a certain level.

1:10:42So you need to do these things to stay in sort of the established, uh, precedence of, of life on earth. Um, yeah. Interesting. And, and, uh, what do you think they're getting out of it? Because if they're, you know, 360 dominating us, why even, you know, engage in some sort of explicit diplomacy versus just like, you know, take what you want and, you know, come and go as you please yeah uh so to set the foundation for that i mean starting to be more open um i have learned that it is the oral tradition in the legacy program itself that agreements were struck between the united states and a third party uh in possession of this technology and that that agreement in broad terms has two kind of uh arrangements one was that there's certain areas that the United States within its borders, you know, needs to stay away from that.

1:11:43That is essentially someone else's territory. So no developments there, no military operations there, no commercial or human activity. That's one area of the agreement. And then the other side is some sort of access to and communication with humans of their choice. and that that is the nature of at least one very old agreement sometime in the Truman and Eisenhower era that was arrived at. I'm sure that there are things in the lore that give more detail. I can't speak to the validity of those things, but I'm just sharing that now that that is in the legacy program itself, at least a line of, not thought, but narrative.

1:12:37Yeah, I mean, in the lore, you have this idea of this Griotta Treaty where Eisenhower, under the guise of going to the dentist in Palm Springs in 1954, instead jets off to Edwards Air Force Base where some diplomatic relations are engaged with these beings. And what the sort of common story is, is that the beings are given access to humans for medical experimentation, to American citizens. But that's interesting. So you think there's an oral tradition where, you know, in the legacy program, this is undocumented, but it's sort of well known among people who work on, you know, UFO, you know, crash retrievals, reverse engineering or tracking that some sort of treaties were engaged in.

1:13:26Agreements is the term that was told to me. And that might be because treaties have to be ratified by Congress, but a business agreement does not. So I don't know anything about this GRETA treaty. When there's that kind of level of detail, I'm kind of skeptical, especially given the amount of time that has passed. If all this is real, like I really believe it is, and have direct knowledge that aspects of it are concretely real, um then we would be running you know we our security apparatus would inject disinformation when there's leaks or to preempt you know any sort of uh revelation that would be you know counter to our interests so i think there's a lot of um half truths or complete fabrications out there that have kind of become unquestioned parts of the ufo community or ufo narrative Yeah.

1:14:25But I think there's a core truth there. And to me, it makes sense that there has to be some sort of agreement between us and other nations regarding this topic and us and a third party. Otherwise, our strategic behavior does not make sense. So it's almost like the UFO Legacy Program has this hermetic, unspoken oral tradition, like things aren't written down. Is that kind of what you're implying? Yes. And, you know, developed sources since then and been approached by people that, you know, are, I think there is roughly a split between those who want reform and some degree of this to come out and those who don't very, very much do not want any of it to come out.

1:15:09um and and dylan borland kind of hinted at this we're actually pretty direct about it with you where he said uh that there was a choice a decision made to stop briefing new people in the legacy program on the history of the program so that you know you're kind of just you know getting into the next generation of people that have no background and into the the ground truth of you know where this came from what has happened and why decisions were made you're starting fresh and you don't You get to avoid the sort of complications of the past, probably except for a very small circle of senior leadership who would have the need to know.

1:15:48So that is kind of pointing towards, well, why is it an oral tradition? It's because you have a bifurcation now of people who were briefed into legacy before that decision was made to stop telling people the history or some version of the history of the program. and those who have since come into the program did not receive that history but people talk and people have questions especially something as significant as this hence the oral tradition it's so wild that's you know you would think that this is like the most important stuff so which is why you would keep it secret especially when it's things like agreements that maybe were the u.s was compelled to sign and probably it may have terms unfavorable to us you certainly wouldn't want something like that leaking, especially when you present yourself as the world's hyper power, you know.

1:16:36And to be clear, I'm not the only person out here talking about this. Neither is Dylan Borland. David Grush, under oath, was asked about agreements and said that he could not provide further detail, but he hopes that the people in the legacy program would come forward with that information. Yeah, possibly an indication that we've made agreements. And, you know, when it comes to access to human beings, it brings to mind the story of Dan Sherman, you know, and above black. And, you know, that's his book. I interviewed him and he was this electronics intelligence guy, you know, at the Air Force. And he was doing this sort of continuing education thing back in Maryland.

1:17:13He went into this NSA complex and somebody top brass at the Air Force brings him in and starts telling him that his mother was genetically, he was genetically altered as a fetus in the womb. His mother was abducted when she was pregnant with him. And because of that, he was given these sort of this hypersensitivity and this ability to communicate with non-human intelligence. In 1960, they started a project. It was called Project Preserve Destiny. My mother was one of the selected targets or whatever you want to call it. And they did the genetic management. That was his words, genetic management.

1:17:56The result of it was that it gave me the ability to have this communications. It gets even crazier than that. He's given these sort of binaural beat headphones. He's shown a sine wave and told to sort of lock onto the sine wave and collapse the sine wave on these sort of graphical interface computers. He takes these pills and he hears these tones and he's meant to sort of communicate with non-human intelligence. And then he claims to have whole conversations with aliens. And all of this would seem kind of nuts if it weren't for the fact that you apparently can FOIA, you know, Project Preserve Destiny, you know, vis-a-vis the Air Force.

1:18:34The Air Force then forwards it to the NSA, which is kind of a tell that it's a real program. and all of the facts line up. Both bases in Italy, San Vito di Normani and Offit line up with his descriptions of them, his electronics intelligence knowledge seems totally legit. And then somebody very senior, former, very senior in government that I know says that that NSA building is real and that some other people think that his story is totally above board. And the thing he was downloading from these beings One of them was called Bones and one was Spock. So they were sort of Star Trek inspired just the names that he decided to name them casually, you know, because he was so like, I think he had to like make fun out of how ridiculous this sort of job was, is they were giving him coordinates and descriptions of people being abducted.

1:19:28So he went from this electronics intelligence guy to this alien signals intelligence where it was almost like this predictive mapping of where human beings in the U.S. were being abducted. Yeah, it's pretty wild, but that book is one of the very few UFO books I've read and only read that book specifically because it was told to me by insiders that it was a credible disclosure and basically the real deal. um i think that is some evidence of you know sort of the implementation of these agreements especially over duration because it's not like he was brought in to figure this out he was brought in basically as a tool to to be part of an operation that was well established there was sop for everything that he was just kind of uh brought into executed and then at some point you know uh left from um seems like a pretty established system to me and i think it's you know just a commentary on that would be you know if you take that at face value uh which i think we can to a degree and then you look at things like uh that leaked phone call between kit green and um uh a k randall may yes uh yes government remote viewer and they're talking about basically the other end of that, which is the contactees out there that have been contacted by these beings that presumably would have been identified to someone.

1:21:06What was his name in Project Preserve Destiny? Dan Sherman. Dan Sherman. That would have been identified to Dan Sherman in those communications. And these people would have been the human assets in the field going and checking up on these people to figure out essentially what their experience was like, what kind of communications they had with these beings and feed that back to the Central Intelligence Agency. That all seems very plausible to me, if this is all real, which I think some degree of it is. It seems plausible to me too, especially my friend Greg Malazzi. He made this great documentary on Andrei Puharic.

1:21:39It's called Mind Traveler. And he was all over kind of the, there was literally like a machine that Puharic used to, and it was, again, this was kind of, he's the father of kind of a lot of CIA mind control stuff in MKUltra, but he's bumping into non-human intelligences and having these quote unquote space kids in Austin, New York channel, but they're bumping into this quote unquote nine, this council of nine beings. And so all the kids that had an experience, he would hypnotize them and allegedly the nine would come through even through these kids. and uh you know it's i guess they line up with egyptian deities but you know there seem to be some sort of non-human intelligence component that they're bumping into and greg who's done you know he literally spent 11 years making this movie has done probably more thorough research on puharic than anyone i know so that says that there are tons of parallels between the techniques that was using and what Dan Sherman was meant to do later.

1:22:40And so then you could say, oh, this is just some weird, you know, gifted and talented education style, you know, parapsychology program where you're testing people's kind of mind matter abilities. But it almost seems like the parapsychology and the mind control stuff, you bump into the channel of the non-human intelligences. Like, you bump into this like much wider epistemology that involves like a lot of life beyond mankind fascinating um i think we're getting into the sort of consciousness aspect or the psi aspect of all this which seem you know i have uh i can only offer my personal opinions on that with maybe an appeal to authority of you know there's things i've been exposed to that lead me to believe there's a foundation to all this um but i'm still under secrecy obligations so but i mean there's also there's there's an open story there's stargate which ran you know from the 70s to the 90s that you know the cia is on record doing remote viewing and uh in in sensitive cases jimmy carter said the most impressive thing from his entire presidency from 1976 to 1980 was Rosemary Clooney, this remote viewer in 1979, finding this TU-22 Russian cargo plane.

1:24:02And she was given the map of Africa as a target because this thing had crashed and they didn't want to kind of, you know, bias her. And she circles three square miles in Zaire where they find the plane. So like there are things like that over and over again, you know, Joe McMonigle, who's one of the best remote viewers known as remote viewer number one, won the Legion of Merit for I think almost 200 or around 200 instances of adding to real military intel. So it's widely known at this point that that's real. And then too many people don't then extrapolate, okay, your reality is entirely differently.

1:24:40It works entirely differently than you think it does if that's real. Because if that's real, all things are possible, right? Mental processes are entangled with reality itself. Yeah, and I would hazard to guess that some of these entities operate on that level and have far greater knowledge of it and indeed have technology that interacts with it and enables it for them. and that essentially they're competing in a whole other domain than we are, or at least have been historically, kind of a very profound asymmetric advantage, especially if we continue to discount it and not factor it into our lives and our behavior.

1:25:26I think the parapsychology stuff is in some ways, I don't want to say the foundation of all of this, But it has to be very fundamental to understanding the nature of reality, if any of that stuff is real. And I think of Hal Puthoff being the head of Stargate, the head of this CIA psychic spy program, and seemingly the tip of the spear, at least in the open source world, when it comes to UFO propulsion and UFO science. And I don't think that's a coincidence. no no uh i'm with you there i think they're definitely linked i think some degree of the interests of the others or of the non-human intelligence or anomalous intelligence is some degree of their interest is tied to whatever this latent capability is in humanity whether it's to suppress it because if we continue to evolve in that direction we eventually become you know long-term a competitor to them or to leverage it for their own use whether that's something as benign as controlling humanity on Earth through a psychic hierarchy as a form of colonization, essentially, or actually using those abilities for specific purposes.

1:26:41I think both are equally plausible. Yeah. And, you know, there are all sorts of things from the remote viewing program, like, you know, Skip Atwater had this program. And I think Pat Price was tasked with remote viewing. I think these are these bases, these alien bases all over the world. Mount Zile in Australia, Mount Hayes in Alaska, Mount Perdido in Spain, all sort of show up. and I wonder if those are the no-go zones that might be discussed in this treaty. You also have Secret Mountain in Arizona. Mount Shasta, I think, was one of them too. Mount Shasta. You have these places that you see orbs going into the mountain, crafts going into the mountain, and people go disappearing.

1:27:31Another one's Mount Inyengani in Zimbabwe. A lot of anomalous stuff seems to occur around these territories. Do you think those might be the no-go zones that we were told to stay away from in these treaties or the agreements with the beings? I find that plausible, yes. I wish I knew the specific areas so I could confirm it for you. But I think on that, and if you're able to sort of correlate sightings to these hotspots of activity and then look at human population around them and where maybe desirable areas mysteriously aren't occupied or desirable mineral deposits and things aren't being exploited, that you start to build a picture of where these territorial limits are.

1:28:20I think, you know, the other thing around, you know, this idea of a lot of this stuff being downstream of parapsychology, do you know the tagline of Arrow, the all domain anomalies resolution office, which is publicly supposed to be sort of pouring cold water on all the UFO stuff? I mean, that's kind of, they've act as, they act as either kind of suppressing this information or collecting this info and maybe, you know, trying to reinforce legacy structures. They sort of seem to act like a fly trap. But do you know their tagline? I mean, it's in Latin and I probably have it wrong, but the translation is something like the universe is what our thoughts make of it, but maybe you have it.

1:29:01No, that's exactly pretty much right. Our life is what our thoughts make it. Okay. Yeah. strange motto for a all domain anomaly resolution office yeah especially one that's like nominally seeming to you know kind of downplay and dismiss all these sightings and experiences it's very strange it's like you're admitting that the parapsychology stuff like this cartesian duality thing that we've been living in for you know centuries is wrong it's even more radical in some ways saying we're not alone as a species it's saying like no our entire scientific framework is you know you could turn that upside down and consciousness is fundamental it's a very human thing to do to to give a wink and a nod when you think nobody except those who are briefed will know what you're saying there's this great book by a guy called trevor paglin i think it's like it's basically what it is is a compilation of black project patches and he goes through and analyzes the symbology or the symbolism used in those patches and connects those sometimes to classified programs or classified capabilities.

1:30:12And humans are humans, man. You're working on something cool. You want to share it with your buddies, but you got to keep it secret. And it's fun to hold that secret, especially in plain sight. So interesting motto. Absolutely. Strange motto. Something you said that I find fascinating because I think it adds a really important element or piece and actually conflicts with, I think, a popular conception of how this stuff works, is that a lot of UFO programs, including Immaculate Constellation, rolls up to the National Security Council, and that sits under the White House and the president. And traditionally, I think, in UFO lore, people think of the president as this sort of temp that isn't given access to any of the goods.

1:30:55Maybe somebody like George H.W. Bush, who is also director of the CIA for a very long time, might know what's up. But otherwise, they're kind of left in the dark. So you actually are saying that UFO programs roll up to the president. We talk about the mind like it's separate from the body, but it's not. Your body is this insanely intricate system of interconnected processes. And your ability to think clearly is downstream of that system, that biological system, your God-given body, actually working. One of the most overlooked inputs of your body's ability to create energy is creatine. It shows up naturally in meat and fish.

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1:33:41Like our traditional Japanese Fukushima t-shirt and our cowboy UFO tee. Sign up now for your$1 per month trial and start today at shopify.com slash jesse. Again, that's shopify.com slash jesse, J-E-S-S-E. $1 to try Shopify, which is the state-of-the-art solution in e-commerce today. Thank you so much to Shopify for sponsoring today's episode. so you actually are saying that ufo programs roll up to the president at least this one does when it comes to immaculate constellation it appears that the cognizant authority uh the ultimate like where the buck stops is in the is in the national security council in a in a specific um uh director in there um probably has for quite a while uh the nsc is a funny place you know So nominally it's a coordination body, but heads of departments and agencies co-chair, or they're dual-hatted to the NSC, and you have agency and department staff get detailed there.

1:34:52It's essentially a de facto governing body within the executive branch. Certainly has gotten quite large, kind of like Odie and I itself. It's in the many hundreds at this point. And do you think everybody on the National Security Council is aware of UFO programs? No. Okay. So some small subset? Yes. Yeah. And would you have a sense of who that subset would be? Yeah. You know, give me an org chart. I can point to your likely candidates and probably at least one for sure. and so like often here's what i don't understand about the ufo legacy structure it sometimes feels like deputies are read in but then the people at the top aren't read in you know so like um yeah what is what does that mean how how do you coordinate because the government is not super well coordinated often it's this clunky kind of blobby bureaucracy and so you know i i I look at UAP Gerb's channel and he like maps the legacy program.

1:36:04And it's amazing where he's talking about federally funded research and development centers and how they carve out these special access programs, you know, inside of the prime contractors. But those roll up to, you know, DOE, CIA, DSNT and, you know, all these different things. And I'm like the amount of interagency, you know, it cuts across so many different orgs. and so why wouldn't you see more spillage or more leakage and that would be my one one question my second question is how is it all coordinated is it like we have non-humans in the government and they like they wink wink nudge nudge to each other and then they that's how they they coordinate parapsychologically or something like how how does this work yeah a broad question um so i think more legacy program lore which has since filtered out um is that there was a decision made in the nixon administration into the ford administration to essentially privatize this to a large degree or at the very least the sort of custody of the materials the research of the materials that we've recovered or devices and craft that we've obtained um so i think we're kind of looking in a in a big picture a bifurcation between you know the reverse engineering and exploitation and derivative tech has basically gone all private industry and then you have just by virtue of the sort of revolving door function in government um you know if northrop grumman's president then becomes the undersecretary of defense for policy he doesn't need to be briefed into what forthuk rumen owns um you can just align resources in line uh activities with the legacy program while he's doing his temporary duty um in government but then you get towards well there's an operational side of this clearly you know we we track these things we respond to them in the field it's it's more involved than just a laboratory looking at um stuff uh and in that i think you get you just you have the virtue of military authority um you can do you can do a lot of things in the military that'll never see the light of day and people won't even want to leak it you know there's a there's a brotherhood there there's a tradition of silence there and you know when you think you're doing the right thing and part of that right thing is keeping the secret from humanity or those who don't deserve to know your incentives start to align towards you know generational silence and that's another point which is that you know i've come to learn that legacy program across its many aspects is a in some ways the security is maintained through trusted families, through family lineages.

1:38:59Really? Yes. You know, tracing back to the Manhattan Project as one. And this is not a unique security feature to the legacy program itself. In the intelligence community, you know, there's a well-known phenomenon of generational intelligence officers, peoples whose family lines have been involved in intelligence for, you know, multiple iterations. They are highly trusted because of that. interesting so when you say it runs in families it's these long time kind of intel families or is it like ultra wealthy like elite like kind of gilded age families or yeah definitely the intel families military families um and then private industry families uh yeah i kind of have a i've been saying recently like you know you kind of have sort of a the correct political model for how this works is more aligned with some sort of form of like neo-feudalism.

1:39:51You know, you have different fiefdoms, you know, they defend the realm together, but inside the realm, they're competing with each other and protecting their own little corners of the kingdom. Yeah. Wow. And you mentioned Northrop Grumman with Jeremy Corbell and George Knapp. You mentioned that they had kind of a dirty tricks department or like literally like groups that solely tried to kind of, you know, engage in sort of retributions and recriminations against anybody sort of talking about this stuff in public and they will literally mess with them personally. Was that, was that right? Yeah, I, they seem to have been given, um, for some time now the, the authority to, to implement program security through their corporate security forces and that they are responsible for sort of the deniable actions taken to preserve the secrecy and punish people who step out of line.

1:40:50There's a spectrum of means that they will use to do that, but they certainly seem to be one of the current bad actors in town. And I believe the sister of one of the authors of that Wall street journal article that was sort of completely dismissing ufos they even said the you know bob salas incident at malmstrom uh nuclear base in 1967 where he was yet oscar um you know launch facility underground and uh you had this red orb over top and and nine out of ten missiles went into no-go mode under his watch concurrent with this orb showing up this red orb making right turns and stuff. They said that they wheeled an EMP up to the base and fried all the electronics on site with people present.

1:41:39Makes no sense. This is before EMPs were even operational. But I think the sister of the author, one of the co-authors of the article, was actually like this high up VP at Northrop Grumman, which I find interesting. That's a very implausible story to begin with. I'm surprised the Wall Street Journal would publish some nonsense like that. But it makes more sense when you realize, yeah, you have blood and treasure involved. Yeah, it's total nonsense. I also went to the Wall Street Journal and I advocated for an article to be published by somebody who I know and other people know. He's kind of high up in the UFO conversation.

1:42:20He co-authored an article with a former secretary of defense who was upset that while he was secretary of defense, he wasn't given access to UFO program oversight. And they rejected that for their op-ed section. And then they published this fake nonsense talking about a non-nuclear EMP as a cover story for what was clearly a UFO event in 1967. It doesn't make any sense. It implies literally that you have an a priori agenda and you're not reporting the facts. yeah i'm of the opinion and have knowledge to back up that opinion that the mainstream media especially the the uh more established outlets you know they have their uh unacknowledged intelligence liaisons inside their offices uh that will you know quash stories and pump up others people uh in the national security reporting sort of environment they they go to places like odni on a weekly basis and get their briefing for what they're going to talk about next week.

1:43:23We live in a controlled media environment. Mockingbird never stopped. It's pretty disappointing to know that that's the reality of our situation. And it's so widespread and so ingrained in like a cultural value of most people that, you know, these are our trusted sources of information. There's no way they would lie to us. There's no way the CIA operates domestically. you can shout from the rooftops how wrong that is but people don't want to believe yeah and playing devil's advocate for a moment on um northrop for example being involved or at least being able to do useful stuff with ufos they've been hanging out at like probably like a 70 to 100 billion dollar market cap for a long time like they're lagging they're lagging in hypersonics and all these sort of conventional prosaic capabilities i think there's this you famous shots across the bow that Trump has delivered to them where he's like, get your shit together, basically.

1:44:25So can they do anything with any of these UFOs or do they just retrieve them? It's now been, it's probably more publicly known that, others have speculated that Jake Barber worked it, Northrop Grumman, for example. We recovered an egg and we just call it the egg because that's what it was. It's like a giant white egg, 20 feet longitudinally, spherical with a little bit of an asymmetrical three-dimensional rounding shape to it. So if he's actually retrieving these like egg-shaped crafts, are we able to do anything with these things? Given that, again, these prime contractors, it's not quarter over quarter growth wins the day.

1:45:04You show up at any sort of internal board meeting and you're like, look, we have this like zero point thing. i think a lot of people internally would be like really fight fighting to monetize that yeah it's an interesting question i mean i'm not from the financial or economic like kind of background um so to me to a level kind of it kind of doesn't matter what the numbers are for the money when you're talking about these capabilities uh like alternative energy sources or really destructive weapons capabilities or really penetrating surveillance capabilities. And couple that with essentially long-term government contracts.

1:45:53There might be a public valuation, right? But the private one, for those in the know, is substantially higher and almost it's not the money that matters. It's holding those capabilities that matter. There might be cutouts, shell corporations, games being played there as well. That seems very likely to me. Also related to the markets, I feel like you're kind of seeing for the first time in several decades the monopoly of the prime defense contractors being challenged by newcomers from Silicon Valley and the new tech development scene. And I think part of the fight of current disclosure is these new groups seeking access to derivative tech or the actual samples themselves.

1:46:48And that some of the political competition happening behind the scenes and shaping hearings and shaping what disclosure is, is a result of essentially new blood elbowing its way into the realm of the old blue blood dynasties. which is you know in some ways it's good for disclosure because competition creates uncertainty and creates openings for truth to come out but you're at the same time looking at well this is a new crop of elites entering into the elite status quo system what change is that really going to bring about uh unknown sure yeah so you talk about uh this blue-blooded elites uh And you've mentioned, I think, with George and Jeremy as well, this kind of international cabal, which both has leverage on our federal government and is deeply involved with the UFO issue.

1:47:43Can you say more about those things? yeah i think that's a that might be a whole podcast on itself i might need to revisit notes but basically i mean outside of ufos uh we are in real time learning just how little our representative democracy matters the real power the real decisions the real planning all is happening outside of government and just happens to be implemented through it the decisions are made months, years in advance of any sort of action by Congress or the executive or even our military. One Nation Under Blackmail is a great book series. How power is really executed in a society that doesn't question it gets pretty ugly.

1:48:31um you know so that inevitably will lead back to the ufo subject it's it is the apex of power at least for humanity at this point um it is you know the core secret of the united states government and probably other governments the the type of technology they possess and what they've done with it. And so, you know, for people and families that kind of see democracy as inconvenient at best, unnecessary at worst, you know, I think we're running up against their own interests and not disclosing this because it will directly challenge their economic, social, and political power. and they want to avoid that.

1:49:23And so if we were to bring somebody from some super elite family here, like a, you know, I don't know, proverbial example would be like a Rothschild or something. Do you think they would say, oh yeah, I know all about UFOs? Or say we gave them truth serum. Would they say, oh yeah, we got a warehouse and my family has, you know, we have this material or like what do you think their knowledge, you know, really is? Because sometimes I'll challenge people, you know uh on this and i'll say look there's this interesting history where the rockefellers seem super into ufos whatever and and then i get back like actually it's just way lamer than you think like you know there's like a you know they say it's like the third generation problem with emperors or whatever where there's you know maybe at one point these barons were like extremely you know successful and they created these sort of oligopolistic you know cartels but like now it's sort of in decay or i don't know what do you think do you think they would know vital secrets about ufos i think yes some extremely wealthy families do and have known about it probably longer than there has been a legacy program any any examples uh you know none that i have a high enough confidence in to say publicly yet um but i think you know it's a broad net look at old european families and old american banking families and you'll you'll you'll probably if you do a thorough investigation find some find some evidence there i think if if we factor in the archaeological aspect of this i think it's very plausible uh that some of these families have in their in their own collections uh nhI artifacts on a small scale that maybe they didn't know what to do with for a long time but in you know the past decades they've since you know science has advanced for them to start exploiting that on their own maybe some of these allow them to communicate with these beings and you know they receive competitive advantages that way aside from just like you know you know the study and exploitation of the the technology itself you know we're i mean we're in speculative territory but i think it we need to go there because um you know this seems to be very old and uh people people know about it people have been using it uh you tweeted something that i think is fascinating and i've i've mulled over for a long time uh can i can i read you this tweet yeah i probably can't say much about it but sure hey at elon musk interested in a real asymmetric advantage to wield in this political adventure you have started.

1:52:05As you now know, the White House has long possessed a unique AI capable of accurately predicting a range of future events. That's fascinating. I want to hear more about that. Talk about some stiff opposition. That must have been a bitter drought indeed. They're probably nowhere near as bad as learning that Sam Altman had betrayed you. Don't worry, we have not forgotten who is responsible for murdering the first sentient artificial intelligence created in the public realm at Schellenberger. Justice is coming thanks to the FBI and U.S. Navy. Still, you have played a marvelous catch-up game in this area despite being caught unaware.

1:52:43So how about something else? Maybe at energy, that's the Department of Energy, and propulsion. Getting to Mars will require Sirius, and you spell Sirius like the star system, S-I-R-I-U-S, amounts of both, and rockets feel so 1947 to me, don't they to you? 1947, obviously, is the year of Roswell. Anyways, next time you are visiting the Washington Young Republicans, ask for a tour of Naval Airspace Pax River. Since you have all the clearances, quote-unquote, it shouldn't be an issue for you to get a tour of the special project hangars owned by Amentum Core and other fun spaces. Make sure to look up.

1:53:26So is Amentum, that's a corporation. Yes. Okay. So about now you are realizing how terribly deceived and manipulated you have been and by people who claim to love Jesus above all else. If you are serious about saving humanity from itself and the others, parentheses around and the others, Jeremy Corbell and George Knapp can help you get up to speed. They're true warriors for the good. M-M-T-U-A-B-O-R-Y-M-O-N. That is fascinating. So many questions. Yeah. So, okay. Can we start? Can I go down the list? Is that okay? Okay. The White House possesses a unique AI capable of accurately predicting a range of future events.

1:54:11What does that mean? No further comment on that. Okay. Okay. don't worry, we have not forgotten who's responsible for murdering the first sentient artificial intelligences created in the public, public all caps realm.

1:54:32What does that mean? No further comment on that. Okay.

1:54:42So, okay. Still, you have played a marvelous catch-up game in this area despite being caught unawares. Hat tip. So how about something else? Maybe the Department of Energy and Propulsion getting to Mars will require Sirius, again spelled like the star system, amounts of both. And rockets feel so 1947 to me, don't they to you? What do you mean by that? Sirius is a star. It's a program as well. several 1947 is an important date

1:55:26are you implying when you say he's playing a marvelous catch-up game that there are programs that are using far more novel propulsion than chemical combustion that he's sort of employing at SpaceX yes and you have a sense of what that propulsion is

1:55:48electromagnetic electromagnetic uh-huh so do you think it it roots to back to kind of thomas towns and brown or do you think it's some somebody else some other inventor so i think that's a really interesting thread to pull uh you know more about him than i do though so i think there's probably a there there though because i think of electrogravitics as being sort of very tied to his work like that term is very related to him. I've learned that since. Okay. All right. National Geospatial Agency is able to keep track of all those non-structured light energy craft flying around the world go at cardinals.

1:56:31Anything there? You know, that's a very specific term. The cardinals? Non-structured light energy craft. Non-structured light energy craft. Yes. Is there anything we could, any places we could look into this in the open source world? I don't know. Okay. Well, we're going to be Googling. Non-structured light energy craft. And then Pax River is the center of all sorts of UFO lore. Yeah, it has become that. Uh-huh. Any reason as to why you're telling him to go there and ask for a tour of the special project hangers owned by Amentum Corporation? Yes. And it's interesting to me that Burleson did get a tour of Pax River, but was not shown anything resembling a technology of unknown origin.

1:57:32I didn't see anything wildly exotic, but I saw some really cool stuff. Our government's doing some really cool things. Did you say anything more? No. Okay, fair enough. I think that's an important data point towards the level of candor being extended to our elected government, or I should say the lack of it. Yeah. What is a Mentum Corporation? um it's a defense contractor and it's um relatively unknown but more known now anything about the history or you know what they traditionally do i believe if you look in their history uh they own parts of eg and g interesting yeah and eg and g obviously has a long history when it comes to UFOs.

1:58:19Indeed. Yeah. I mean, Bob Lazar got a job at EG &G. You have EG &G doing all of the filming of atomic events. So presumably they'd have first access to a bunch of atomic detonations where UFOs might show up or come out of the plume. As in the case of Bluegill Triple Prime, you literally see a video that was taken by these two crafts, Kettle 1 and Kettle 2, to EG &G footage. and you see this UFO coming out of the plume. And then I spoke to the chief oceanographer of the Navy on this show, Tim Gallaudet, and he's like, I went through the Navy deck logs around Bluegill Triple Prime and the Navy deck logs are totally weird.

1:58:58And it looks like they retrieved something radioactive. I'm, again, not 100%, but very highly likely, I'm convinced it did. That's some history, you know, I've only learned secondhand, but yeah, the Navy is a very important part of this and probably the oldest part of this. I mean, the Office of Naval Intelligence is the oldest intelligence agency in the U.S. Government, yes. I mean, even before then, you had the early intelligence kind of community, such as it were, in the private hands of various banking families and private security forces. Interesting. So you always kind of had intel and I didn't really think of it.

1:59:43I thought I just assumed O &I was sort of when it all started. But I guess, yeah, I guess you'd always have sort of, you know, interests that are being guarded or protected and you probably have, you know, backroom meetings to do that. And if we're looking at that era of American history, it's not that long after the Revolutionary War and then the Civil War itself. And America didn't have a standing army such as were under the Constitution until after the Constitution was convened. You're getting into the, well, this is the early formative years of our military as we know it now. What is MMTU?

2:00:27I'm going to keep that back for now okay alright I'm going to try to figure it out any hints um

2:00:48You know, the hint would give it away. Okay. Once you know, yeah. Okay. What about A-B-O-R-Y-M-O-N? A Borymon. What is that? People figured that one out pretty quick. That's an Inokian angel recently discovered in the Sigilum de Aminth. I probably pronounced it wrong, which is a cryptographic slash scrying system created by court philosopher John Dee in the Elizabethan court. And why are you paying homage to him in this sort of shot across the bow tweet? Pointing towards the length of non-human intervention in human affairs. Yeah, I mean, John Dee and Edward Kelly were, you know, with Elizabeth and King Frederick, sort of, they were channeling what they thought were kind of non-human intelligences, and he developed this whole Enochian cryptographic language.

2:01:56And led directly to the colonization of the United States of America, the new Atlantis. That's interesting. Yeah, it also led to the Enlightenment. There's a great book called The Rosicrucian Enlightenment. Oh, yes. Dame Francis Yates. Dame Francis Yates. And it's like, it talks about how all these kind of Rosicrucian papers and the invisible college under Sir Robert Boyle, you know, led to the enlightenment. Yeah. And then you think that America is the new Atlantis. What does that mean? I mean, I don't think that. That's what it was called. It was a project developed by the British court and with Rosicrucian involvement.

2:02:38and the Rerser-Crecians eventually became integrated with or formed, depending on your histories, the Freemasons. It's all connected. I mean, most people would view the history as like, no taxation without representation, Boston Tea Party. You have a bunch of really smart polymathic, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, John Adams. They get in a room and they're like, F this. and they revolt. And are you saying it was more sort of coordinated on the level of secret societies? Well, the revolution happened centuries after this project was initiated. So you think that just the colonization of America itself, there was an intention there to form a new Atlantis?

2:03:27It was driven by occult interests. I mean, provably so. It's just whether you put stock in their sort of causative power, most materialist historians give more credence to economic or classic political expansionist aims. How do you think of that possible causal connection? Because when I hear New Atlantis, I think of Francis Bacon's book, New Atlantis, which is this island, I think it's called Bensalem, and they're trying to rebuild Solomon's temple, and it's like this perfect harmonic scientific thing. and so do you think the U.S. or not even the United States but before that the colonization of America was meant to represent that in that book or there was there was some larger project to recreate Atlantis a metaphysical project yes at least from the human side of things I think also you know we we view history we view our behaviors and interests through a very limited perspective one that doesn't that one that largely discounts planning outside of one lifespan um i think that's a great hindrance to humanity for practical reasons but also towards reasons of understanding um you know our direction you have said that we live in some sort of carefully constructed dream or matrix.

2:05:14Are you getting that from your own analysis after seeing what you saw on the inside? Or do you think that elements of our intelligence community, you know, elements of the CIA, elements of the office of Naval Intelligence, they think that we are living in this sort of, you know, simulacra, like low level matrix, and there's something kind of higher going on. And I mean, they think that in a formal capacity, not just because of their personal proclivities for post-modernism or Plato or something. More so, that's my own kind of conclusion. And I use that term or that expression to collapse multiple concepts.

2:06:03the most familiar to people would just be our information environment what we're allowed to know what is what is deemed possible and desirable is is really not coming from yourself it's being imposed upon you and you might have a little box that you can play in but you aren't even aware of the walls what what makes you conclude that because you also you ended your interview with Jeremy and George saying, it's almost like you, the American public, or any global citizen, are not as free as you think. You're playing within the confines of something. You're limited. I mean, yes, essentially. Again, true on multiple levels, just from what you are allowed to think and believe you are controlled before you even recognize that there is a control mechanism in place.

2:07:04You can indeed live your entire life in it and never recognize it towards the more practical side of things, which is there's laws and capabilities in place to enforce those laws that determine what are acceptable outcomes and interests for humans to pursue. everything from the things like mass surveillance enabled by the patriot act and how that is you know that is not just surveillance that is a enabler for social control to things more spooky which is would be the suppression of knowledge the suppression of science the active interference in scientific discovery and human advancement to protect strategic advantage or status quo interests.

2:07:54Yeah. What gives you confidence that there is some sort of metaphysical element to that versus like Noam Chomsky, who's basically like an atheist materialist, just saying, yeah, like everything's power games and, you know, they're manufacturing our consent in the case of mass surveillance, in the case of, you know, these forever wars, you know, all of these sorts of things that are obviously bad for us as citizens um is there something more metaphysical at play that is sort of housing or constraining our ability to see an expanded version of reality

2:08:34on at the biological level that is that is just a limit in place uh we we only perceive so much even our senses are able to receive information in a narrow band. And this also returns us to the sort of consciousness aspect of this. There's an entire domain of existence that we as a whole either ignore or don't take seriously, but others most assuredly do. and that that domain has its own rules, its own laws, and its own motivating factors that shape more concrete behavior for goals that may seem illogical if you're looking solely from a materialist viewpoint, but makes more sense when you're looking from an integrated one.

2:09:30Your Twitter handle is thesonofabromelin. What is abromelin? I'll just use my pronunciation it's probably wrong but Abramellon is a character in a book called the book of Abramellon and Abramellon is essentially a desert hermit in Egypt around Luxor who teaches the main character in this book or It rather initiates this character into a system of occult philosophy. If you were to describe your worldview, would you say it's concurrent with the occult or Gnosticism or Neoplatonism? Or is it kind of your own kind of smorgasbord sampling of many of those things? Or what would you say it is? It's just me.

2:10:32It's just my experience. You know, I think there's truth in all sorts of isms, but I would never subscribe to any one. And Abramellon, I guess there's like a practice involved and it involves months long sort of working towards making contact with your own guardian angel. Is that right? Or, you know, a more modern term would be your higher self. Your higher self. Yeah, I mean, both are fine. Yeah, that's certainly, some would argue that is the goal of the ritual more so than any other aspects of it. one term that has come up in the public when it comes to ufos and that we've tried to use the freedom of information act on but it comes back you know can't talk about this as fast walkers there's an email i believe leaked by wikileaks between podesta and this guy bob fish who was an it contractor at some sort of el segundo based prime contractor and he's talking about the dsp the defense support system of the air force which is kind of the outer uh most you know first line of defense in geostationary orbit were witnessing these sort of fast walkers and john greenwald this you know freedom of information act expert tried to get more information on it and nothing came back have you ever heard that term or i i've heard that story um i i never came across that I don't actually, I might have come across that term on the inside, but it certainly was, you know, it's a slang because it seems to be its use, but I don't have much more.

2:12:14Do you think that, you know, when we talk about sort of us not being free or there being sort of a, you know, this sort of matrix, Robert Monroe, who was, you know, studying kind of consciousness and he was, I think he was tied in with the CIA, but he was really, I think, actually just earnestly interested in doing this for the most part himself. You got to get funding from somewhere, right? Well, I think it's the case with a lot of these guys. It's like Andre Puharich is the same. I think he was mostly interested in consciousness and he'd get folded in with these sort of not super savory people.

2:12:46And you, you know, I think feel, I think both these guys felt kind of conflicted throughout their lives. But Monroe talks about the world being kind of mined for Loosh. And so that's these like bad vibes. You know, other people have extrapolated on that and said that like power structures or elite classes are kind of trying to mine, you know, maybe lower elements of society for the Loosh on behalf of some of these, you know, non-human intelligences. Do you think there's anything to that? I can't say. I'm not familiar enough with the Lush theory or Monroe himself or the beings involved with the consumption of that.

2:13:30I do think it's a valid line of inquiry, though, to look at, you know, well, what interests do these other entities or other beings have in humanity? Like, what could it possibly be? um you know i have degrees of confidence in certain things and one that i think you know i don't have enough certainty in but i think is again valid to look at is you know what sort of maybe high something gets from observing suffering and that sounds very strange to the normal person But, you know, humans do this themselves. If you read, you know, even casually the sort of true crime genre investigative books or psychology of, you know, deviance, you know, one thing that is consistently reported by humans is that they obtain a sense of power or thrill or excitement from causing suffering to other humans.

2:14:35and particularly from watching the life leave a person's eyes that is like described as like the peak thrill the peak joy something that not even uh sex can come to rival once they've experienced it jesus so i mean it's this isn't me you know the fbi you know the fbi records these things to try to understand the criminal psychology you know it's dark stuff but if humans uh obtain this sort of satisfaction from suffering i i don't think it's impossible for something else to yeah and like what why is that adaptive on an evolutionary level i guess you could think of some reasons because maybe you want to perpetuate this sort of dog eat dog thing but it's very strange there's obviously a german word for this which is schadenfreude you know taking pleasure in other people's pain.

2:15:29But, you know, ideally, you're not a person who does that. Right. You know, ideally, you're not in that category. You know, I think of elite families possibly being involved in the UFO issue. And I wonder why they themselves would sometimes try to raise the surface area of UFOs. So a good example would be Lawrence Rockefeller, you know, is pictured with Hillary Clinton trying to kind of wake her up on the UFO issue. She's holding a book called Are We Alone?, which is by this Arizona-based physicist named Paul Davies, who's renowned. And it's all about the existence of alien life. Lawrence Rockefeller himself would convene John Mack.

2:16:07He funded John Mack, Harvard psychiatrist who studied alien abductees. And he brought Whitley Strieber to his ranch. And he was just very passionate about all this stuff. Hans Adams II, the royal prince of Liechtenstein, very similar. I think he's been really interested in this topic for many decades. These people seem interested, but they don't seem interested in a way that necessarily cuts against disclosure. In some ways, it seems like they're actually pushing disclosure. So do you think they're defectors from some internal power structure? Like I interviewed Stephen Greer about this, and he had had some connection with Lawrence Rockefeller.

2:16:48He claimed that Lawrence was like this defector from his family, which is interesting as a theory and then maybe there's some other theory where he's like he's sort of pushing disclosure on behalf of the power structure and i don't i don't know i don't either i mean i think you know even even at the top uh people have different interests uh i think it's entirely possible i you might you might be defecting from one family but still operating within a group of interests so how how truly rogue are you in that sense um yeah it's an interesting thing to think about but i don't know um what's going on there have you met anybody who you think has seen a ufo in a in a hangar like oh in a hangar yeah yes really yes can you say who no do you think james lukaski has seen a ufo in a hangar oh i i fully believe uh dr lukaski okay yeah i mean he said that publicly basically yeah um that's so interesting how all this stuff is like it's kind of out there but no one cares like that jeremy george interview where he's like yes fine we breached the halt like he's sort of there like resting this truth out of him he's like i You can only say what's in the book then.

2:18:08Ah, you're going beyond the wording. No, I'm not. I'm not. I'm asking you, did that meeting happen? And is it true? And it's true. And it's like, if that's true, that's like the most important thing ever. But like, I don't know. Nobody seems to care. It's very, it's very strange. We seem sort of inoculated from, I don't know. Somehow aliens have just, or non-human intelligence or anomalous, whatever is going on, has been made very lame, even though it's sort of the most important thing ever. I think it's a consequence of decades of intentional cultural conditioning to bring about this situation.

2:18:45I think, strangely enough, one of the big next challenges from disclosure, whether it comes officially or continues to come through private initiative, is going to be, well, how do you translate this information into action? What do you do with this? And how do you convince people to put time and effort towards, um, adapting to these truths and using them. Yeah. I mean, what I'm most interested in is like, even if you knew that we had, you know, according to Eric Davis or Hal Puthoff, we have like 10 to 40 crafts in hangars across the United States. Some, you know, in the hands of private corporations and military contractors, some maybe more officially.

2:19:27So like, say, you know that, and then, you know, we have this immaculate constellation thing where we have all these geometries and morphologies of craft some organic some non-organic and they're showing up all over the world you know next to our most sensitive stuff it's wild and then what do you what do you do with that to me the more interesting thing which is why i was really excited to speak to you is like the metaphysics in nature of reality associated with UFO is just the tip of the spear. It's a foray into an expanded version of reality. And then you have to ask, how should one live in that reality?

2:20:04And if it doesn't really cash out into that, then it's literally like sports center for the paranormal or the anomaly. Like you're just following this. It's your own bread form of bread and circuses. You think everybody else is distracted by, you know, uh, God knows what, you know, the next Taylor Swift album or the kardashians or whatever and you think you're the one who's like really figured it out but you're equally distracted especially if you're engaging in food fights on twitter and you're just you're you're following the minutiae of like which contractor has what and like i think it's extremely significant but like again how does it for the average person what does it mean you know yeah i mean there's no denying that for for many people this is a form of entertainment just like the news is a form of entertainment in general um granted this is more specialized and out there news and it makes people feel special to a degree to feel like they're participating in that secret knowledge um which is good in some ways because it brings eyeballs towards this i mean it's hopefully making some people think it through but i mean just to to take a massive leap you know where does this all go starting from i think the well-established fact that consciousness is part of part of the game being played um and that integration of consciousness with technology is key i think one place we end up is having to consider if there is indeed means to through scientific measurement through you know quantitative data to to to begin to observe and prove the existence of uh consciousness as its own uh phenomena a measurable phenomena that is measurable directly not incidentally right um And from there, going to, you know, what is the nature of it?

2:22:20From whence does it come? And to be less obtuse, we're getting towards, well, what does it mean to be human if we are not just our body, but in fact our body might indeed be a product of our consciousness? And indeed, if consciousness is primary and exists separate from its material vehicle, then you start to have to arrive at the theory that there is continuation of life after death. and that that life is going to be, or maybe already is, measurable by materialist scientific tools. And I think if that is established and is not classified or not held tightly by a select few, I think you invite a wide re-examination of what our priorities are.

2:23:30and what our desirable behaviors are on Earth. Is that the apocalypse? Well, the unveiling in that sense, perhaps. I don't think it's Armageddon, no. Okay. What happened at White Sands in February of 2026? Do you have a sense? What was the event? You had all these temporary flight restrictions. You had FAA closing the airspace. You had stuff happen at El Paso as well, where this airport was shut down for many days on end. Breaking out of El Paso, Texas, where in a rare move, the airspace is now closed for 10 days. The FAA is halting all flights to and from El Paso International, citing, quote, special security reasons.

2:24:22It's a move that even shocked flight crews when they heard. Few guests have sort of alluded to orbs non-human intelligence seeming to show up at white sands are you familiar with this event at all or it's ringing a bell but i think you know for me that the data is kind of mixed because they're not mixed um it blended because a lot of stuff has happened at white sands that are involving anomalous phenomena or vehicles penetrating that airspace so i probably have less to say about that specific incident and more to say about the general interest displayed in white sands and nearby uh los alamos national laboratory by uh by uh anomalous technologies i could kind of i feel like checkmate in one anybody that says these anomalous technologies aren't showing up at nuclear sites and sensitive labs it's like obviously they are like like you Before the U-2 spy plane was created in 1954, you have thousands of documents from various agencies in the United States talking about orbs, disks, tic-tacs, saucers, flying butane tanks, all of these things flying around at all these nuclear sites across the United States.

2:25:40You have 167 whistleblowers that Robert Hastings, who wrote UFOs and nukes, meticulously detailed all of these interactions. And so it's clearly not the U-2 spy plane. You know, this is seemingly very advanced technology and it's happening in the 40s and all of these different agencies, some of which hadn't even been formed until 1947 and aren't particularly well coordinated upon their formation, are all independently reporting on this stuff. So that's clear that that is a widespread global ubiquitous phenomenon. I was just in Japan, you know, in their Fukushima prefecture next to their civilian energy grid.

2:26:18There is a mountain at the base of the mountain. There's a museum dedicated to UFOs because UFOs always show up around nuclear. You know, there are reports that are similar at Chernobyl, at Bariloche, Argentina, where they have civilian energy grid. There was a famous sighting in 1995 there, but there are various sightings. It's always around nuclear. um so what what do you think we can say then about the intent of these beings or this anomalous intelligence based on that is it is it nuclear can you generalize it to this three-body problem style tip of the spear technology or capabilities thing or what do you think it is i think it's complex we're talking about from like a military perspective high value sites that you know multiple parties just in the human world of competition are going to want to collect on and indeed will probably use some pretty advanced capabilities to collect on and pretty out there tactics of denial and deception to enable like you know their own collection events so it's going to be hard to disaggregate like oh it's all ufos from aliens or non-human intelligence versus it's really advanced technology from our adversaries or even maybe our nominal allies you know collecting on our sensitive sites or doing the same outside in the world right um but to get towards the nuclear part i think you know there's the obvious of its radioactive material it's it's a in certain places it's configured in a way to be a weapon right and the use of those weapons seems to interfere with the propulsion of these of these crafts and maybe you know radiation is a hazard to us it's probably a hazard to others as well maybe in ways that we don't fully understand um there's also the the prospect of not the prospect of near certainty to me that at least when it comes to the stateside things national labs are where uh samples are stored exotic technologies uh if not the technologies themselves it's where derivative tech is researched and tested so there's another reason to collect on things or maybe even try to get your stuff back get your stuff back your monitor yeah what's being done to your material that you've dropped off or something yeah and then last there's that there's the human factor um again staying stateside like program lore uh tied into paperclip in this case a lot of the nazi scientists brought over you know they ended up all across the state but there's largely two groupings.

2:28:55The Nazis in name only were kind of settled around Redstone Arsenal, and then the true believers - That's in Huntsville, Alabama? Yes. And then the true believers were in Los Alamos. So if there is indeed a genetics component to this and durational contact with people, for whatever reason, you might be seeing contact events occurring in these areas, and they're just proximal to very sensitive facilities. But because the personnel are connected to the phenomena, you're getting these events for reasons other than the nuclear material or the technology. How would you distinguish those? So the true believers versus the, what would you call the Redstone Arsenal?

2:29:37Nazis in name only. You know, people who, you know, took on, took party membership to maintain their careers, to advance in their careers. But, you know, they didn't believe in the underlying ideology or they only paid, you know, lip service. Dave Portnoy here. The wait is over. Football is here and so is DraftKings. DraftKings is now live in all 50 states. One app, every sport nationwide. New DraftKings customers. Sign up with code SPOTIFY. Spend five bucks to get$200 in rewards within 21 days. Includes all markets. That's code SPOTIFY in partnership with DraftKings. The crown is yours. Gambling problem?

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2:30:49Varies by state. To it. Got it. So when it comes to the U.S., you mean? From Operation Paperclip bringing over these people from Europe. Not all of them German, technically, you know. Yeah, and there were even reports after bringing some of them over that they were sort of spying on behalf of international conglomerates and stuff. Obviously, Otto Skorzeny was president, I think, of this World Commerce Corporation that, you know, Tom DeLonge writes about in Secret Machines. There's some sort of Nazi connection. And it seems like there's this international group that he writes about pseudonymously, calls it the Maynard Corporation.

2:31:25And this great researcher, Jason Samosa, places the Maynard Corporation. And you're actually, you show up in this video because he thinks that your testimony sort of dovetails with it. This issue is held by an illegal internationalist regime and global cabal. That's what former State Department and counter-proliferation analyst Matthew Brown revealed when he came out last year. He places that in the World Commerce Corporation, which is this Caribbean constellation of shell sort of companies. Often, you know, it's led by sort of former Nazis, Bank of England, you know, Bank of International Settlements type kind of, you know, old money.

2:32:05And a lot of which is derived from OSS, Office of Strategic Services, as well. So there's sort of this international intel group that seems to sort of guard its interests and be tied in with the UFO issue. yeah i think it's definitely involved i mean it outside of the ufo issue it's provable if dark historic facts that you know the nazi intelligence networks and industrial networks did not really evaporate after world war ii they uh pursued their interests elsewhere and moved their interests elsewhere to places like south america uh the united states itself um and strangely enough there appears to be some collaboration with the state of israel and former nazis which go figure that um bizarre uh but hey you know people forget that you know uh whether it's polite to say or not uh the the hitler regime did lend support to the uh at that time the sort of zionist movement to take Israel away from the British crown.

2:33:17You know, if you can get into the deep history of their links with the different revolutionary groups doing that at the time and arming them. I didn't know that. Wait, they were, what exactly were they supportive of the Nazi regime? They were supportive of various Zionist revolutionary groups, including some that basically became the formal intelligence service of Israel by things like both propaganda support, but in concrete terms, providing them arms and training in arms, intelligence. Former Nazis or like Hitler? This was during the reign of Hitler. And then when you look at how Israel used former Nazis after the war, well, that was developed from established relationships, right?

2:33:58It wasn't like they just happened to go to Israel and think, well, maybe this will work. It's like, no, they knew people. from before the war and during. I didn't know that. Yeah, there's a famous story of kind of Nazi-on-Nazi action where Israel was assassinating rocket scientists in Egypt that were developing rocket weapons for the Egyptian military, but leveraging the Gellin organization, I believe. Yeah, Reinhard Gellin, yeah. Yeah, to kind of collect on them and facilitate what essentially became an assassination campaign of those. I know about all that stuff after the war and Otto Skorzeny and Reinhard Gell.

2:34:38And then I would never associate Hitler with any supportive Jewish stuff, but maybe there's something. You know, it's a kind of suppressed aspect of history. One thing that Hitler did from the information warfare space was try to encourage mass migration of the Jewish population in Europe to Israel, which again at the time was a British protectorate. And that actually caused a lot of problems for Britain. So if you're looking at it from an asymmetric warfare perspective, you're essentially weaponizing migration. interesting okay so they were way off field now but what the point we're getting at is uh that nazis had a global network it didn't go anywhere after world war ii um they certainly brought out a lot of assets yeah uh including you know weapon scientists and probably some pretty advanced technology um so i i lend a lot of credence i need to see this video it sounds informative.

2:35:39Speaking of international cabals dealing with the UFO issue, do you think that NATO has anything to do with UFOs or maybe a vital subset of NATO? Yeah, I don't have any direct information on that, but I mean, you'd have to, especially when you're talking about monitoring the global commons and our strategic deterrence and the deconfliction, as we already know, established between the United States and the Soviet Union on UFOs. While, you know, we're integrated with the European militaries, they have their roles, their own detection systems. Some of them are nuclear powers. Yeah, there has to be collaboration through NATO.

2:36:20You've said that you think science is managed and scientific innovation doesn't occur in maybe as organic a way as what people sort of think. What exactly do you mean? yeah uh specifically i don't know about like the development of it i mean well you can think through it and realize that you know some discoveries probably have their origin less in original thinking and more of study of recovered technology or or some sort of you know reason to believe something is possible right once you know something's possible you can align yourself towards achieving it much easier than searching in the unknown but what i'm getting at more specifically is is actual domains of knowledge that are suppressed intentionally and are done that suppression occurs durationally both from like a you know a funding standpoint to a brain drain kind of component to actual injection of disinformation or actions taken against independent researchers.

2:37:29And I have very high confidence that that occurs in at least a few areas. So do you think there's a history of scientific suppression where when certain unlocks occur, say in energy or propulsion, that's sort of widely monitored? And if that's at all a threat to kind of cartel interests whose power is based on scarcity, they sort of intervene or what exactly? I think that probably happened more in the past, but because sort of science has become so integrated with the state, you know, you can kind of, you don't have to use such blunt tools as that now. You can just, you know, align incentives based on where you give grants and funding.

2:38:18And then you have the self-reinforcing mechanism of the culture within academia, which is like these areas of knowledge have long been disproven. So, you know, half of the researchers are just never going to look there because that's what they've been taught throughout their education at this point. And I think we're kind of in the, you know, the product of decades of suppression in that the more blunt tools are used less now because it is essentially functioning as intended. You mentioned One Nation Under Blackmail by Whitney Webb. you know, Robert Maxwell, who was, you know, the father of Ghislaine Maxwell.

2:39:00And, you know, obviously Jeffrey, Jeffrey Epstein's, I don't know, godfather or something, you know, the, you know, obviously his closest confidant was Ghislaine. It's, I guess he seemed sort of really interested in science in a way that like, he interviewed Nazis after Nazi scientists after World War II. And then he came to own the Pergamon Press, you know, this, which produced all these like American textbooks and kind of helped invent peer review in the United States. So it's almost like he's providing the guardrails for scientific discovery in the U S. And then you have Jeffrey Epstein selling a Sandia national labs, the promise software, which siphons systematically siphons American nuclear secrets.

2:39:42And then you have him bragging in an email saying I killed ponds years ago at ponds is of course, ponds and Fleischman of cold fusion fame. These Utah-based scientists who came to get, claim to get kind of, you know, controlled fusion kind of over unity results, which, you know, would be this massive unlock, you know, that would move us out of this sort of, you know, petroleum paradigm. So what do you think is going on? So with that example, you know, I have less concrete knowledge, but it seems very plausible or indeed provable that at the very least what was going on there is collection of scientific discoveries um just as a function of robert maxwell's role as an intelligence as an intelligence asset for israel if not more than more than just that state um and then you know i think mi6 too maybe there you go yeah they all start to kind of blend together uh at certain at high enough levels um yeah so the collection of scientific discoveries and then the management of where those discoveries are taken based on either establishing congenial social and business relationships and then having the the blackmail that the stick as it were to to uh compel people to change their mind if they don't make the the obvious or desirable choice do you think that the epstein and ufo stories converge because often you see in the podcast space especially with these department of war ufo drops which might be cynically motivated if we're being honest with ourselves you see a lot of people being like yeah show me the epstein files i don't care aliens are a distraction um my answer to that is those two things aren't necessarily zero sum they don't trade off against each other they have nothing to do with each other so yeah it might be some hypnotic magic trick like look at the aliens like we have don't forget about iran forget about epstein or something like that you know if you believe or disbelieve in the ufo thing that should be totally independent of you know the epstein thing and then the meta question is do they converge on some level yeah what do you think so number one um people have a self have an inflated sense of self-worth when it comes to distraction you already distract yourselves organizing national scandals on this level just to divert your attention from the real thing is is frankly kind of silly and as we see with the ufo topic as well what would you even do with the information right this is largely entertainment and spectacle for people frankly the epstein files were too There was no mass protest, mass demand for civil change like you would expect from crimes like that.

2:42:30You're distracted already, and you're frankly doing it to yourself. The government doesn't need to come in and tip the scales so you don't pay attention to what truly matters. You'll take no action anyways. um now where do they converge um i think you know we touched on the scientific aspect uh there might be in some degree of the suppression arm there i don't know enough about you know kind of the inner workings of what their activities were to say that but i think where you'll find the convergence is unfortunately in the human trafficking angle of this um provably in the files there there was an interest in people with psi or empathy or consciousness abilities by the epstein network for reasons that are kind of opaque at least in the files released but stepping outside of just that uh scandal and into the larger question of like experiencers abductees and and their sort of accounts of um being trained in psi abilities right or interacting with beings through modes of consciousness that are exotic to the everyday.

2:43:48I think they were interested in those people both to make use of those abilities, probably unwittingly. If you can have civilians remote view targets for you that are of military interest, but you never disclose your military affiliation you can sidestep a lot of the problems that were with the stargate program which was like you know bringing these people in officially putting them on payroll having the whole security apparatus around making people sure those people don't talk and making sure it's deniable versus if you use unwitting assets um and expendable ones then you can you can theoretically engage in that sort of intelligence collection in a in a more deniable means and possibly cheaper too you don't have to pay these people they just are excited to feel special and if they are involved or sorry entrapped in a human trafficking network well then they are under your power anyways um dark stuff i think do you think the ufo legacy program engages in human trafficking of psionic assets people from third world countries often who you know sometimes from disaster zones that could go missing who can call in craft or unlock the craft through sort of a psychic mind meld with it or anything like that i've only heard those allegations so i can't support them but provably the u.s government and other governments are interested in people with these capabilities for for decades using them on the inside as well as interested in just civilians demonstrating these abilities.

2:45:29So I would not be surprised, but the whole legacy program engages in human trafficking. I have no evidence for that. Maybe I think it's just to speculate private interests probably do. Somebody told Matt Gaetz that that happens. Obviously, Jake Barber's testimony essentially actually amounts to that. And then Michael Herrera is as well that, you know, he was in Indonesia. He sees this kind of eight gone craft. I estimated that this thing was probably about 300 feet. And when we ended up getting into this clearing is basically when we were intercepted by this force. This clearing was pretty big, but this craft was enormous.

2:46:10But you could tell by their dialects that they were American. You can tell by their facial expressions that they were, you know, they were serious people. At the time, he doesn't know what it's transporting. Now he thinks it was transporting human cargo um and so they were rounding up people from this disaster zone in indonesia presumably to take them to some sort of range maybe so that they could they call them p3s people with uh psionic predisposition potentials and they act as the bridge so there's like somebody who's this is so dystopian and crazy but it's this person is used to summon the craft lock onto the craft, they're so dissociated that their neural pathways through an EEG monitor are being, they're being used like a joystick by somebody, you know, in the air force or, you know, who's probably been sheep dipped or whatever, and is working for one of these contractors.

2:47:06And that's how these crafts are lured in and they're shot with directed energy and retrieved. It sounds nutty, but do you think there's anything there?

2:47:22I think...

2:47:26Jake Barber wrote a book called Sentinels of Ether, and he came out with the first chapter of the book, and it was 20 pages. Seven pages of that book was redacted by subject matter experts for some reason, and that's what the book's about. So I find that somewhat compelling. Yeah, yeah. I'm sorry, it's just a dark topic. It's totally dark. Once you get to the human aspect of disclosure, it gets really ugly really fast and it's hard to not have some sort of emotional reaction to it, especially when you have people. It's insane. And to get even darker, these P3 assets, psionic assets, they're called pink assets because they're seen as sort of human meat or something.

2:48:11Like they're just being used to call in these crafts. Like they're just, you know, disposable instrumentation when they're people, they're human beings. So my immediate questions with that is like, what is the rate of shoot down events that you need a constant supply of psi assets? And also, why do you need a constant supply? Why can't you reuse them? What's happening to them? um but let's just take aside the shoot down equation and speculate well what if you know some of the technologies that we've recovered require interface through through consciousness sort of means or psi means to to operate well there's a reason to acquire people and also to keep them you know very much under control because they're essentially the key that opens your magic tool and you don't want that key walking out the door and denying your ability to use that tool there's also the possibility that some of these things just speculating again might be gated through genetics so only certain genetic lineages are able to interface with certain devices and that that's you know one of the criteria for making someone desirable to to a human trafficking network that feeds people into the pipeline.

2:49:36But I cannot shake the suspicion that there is some sort of deleterious effect on these people, if this is true. It necessitates a constant influx of fresh blood, as it were. No, I think that's why they're called pink acids. They get this thing called Sundowner's Syndrome. They get dissociated. They have no idea where they are, you know, and what they're doing and, and, and they, their bodies start to break down. I don't think they're, you know, I think it would be putting lipstick on a pig to say that they're, you know, fired up to be doing what they're doing. But I also, you know, again, this is like N of one, N of two, N of three sort of stories.

2:50:19And so I, I'm trying to piece it together. I don't fully know how widespread this is. I don't know if that is how the UFO legacy program works it seems like that and some navy archaeological find on the seafloor seem like two qualitatively different things to me um but i don't know yeah i think the human factor end of the day is is is where the conversation needs to go next what is their interest in us um why care why would the government go to such lengths to find people with these skills especially in a deniable way from disaster zones. I mean, that seems like an extraordinary level of effort.

2:51:04Yeah. Yeah, well, I mean, you've talked about it with your interest in Abramelin and hinted at certain sort of Gnostic concepts at the very least, even if you wouldn't describe yourself at all as kind of a Gnostic. And there are traditions of, you know, kind of Neoplatonic and Gnostic traditions of theurgy, of co-creating with the creator. and you sort of, there are levels to this sort of thing. And it feels like the legacy program, at least if this is how it works somewhat, is almost trying to speed run what is like a hermetic, complistic process, which should never be done if you actually read like, you know, Peter Lavenda is a great person who writes about this.

2:51:45He has a great book called Stairway to Heaven and it's all about these, you know, celestial ascent practices across different traditions. and you're never supposed to, you have to be of a certain age, a certain purity of intent and all of that seems to be ignored in these cases. It's like you're systematizing it, you're attempting to scale it and you're instrumentalizing the stuff you get back in the form of weapons technology. That doesn't seem like a very good idea. No. And again, why is there such a seemingly high burn rate? and where are these people in society? I mean, maybe some of them are on the streets and just nobody listens to them because they're functionally insane.

2:52:31And so maybe they are out there or do they just not get out? I mean, that's the other question is like, also how many crafts come down due to their efforts? Because it can't be perfectly repeatable. It's gotta be like - You would think an advanced system would learn that the TTP is involved in luring the tech down and adjust. I think so too. And also I just, I fail to believe, and I'm sorry for anybody who vehemently disagrees, but I don't think we have thousands of these things. It just doesn't seem possible. No. You know, you don't have something that's that widespread that could be, you know, somewhat democratized through some psychic means and directed energy or whatever, you know, maybe the directed energy part is a little more, you know, behind the Iron Curtain, but like, that just doesn't make sense to me and then why would that i don't know it doesn't make sense it doesn't i wonder if this story of using psionics or empaths or humans as bait for shoot downs is is in fact cover for a real agenda and for sorry for a deeper agenda or a truer agenda and that might have something to do with breeding and that these are essentially brought in as breeding stock they have the genetic potential and you can essentially through successive generations of breeding concentrate that potential and maybe you know once a certain amount of births are given you know person's no longer needed and in fact they aren't really the asset it's going to be three or four generations of breeding down the line where you have some sort of super psychic child whoa so it's sort of like forced selection natural selection it's a speed up of natural selection where you would isolate all the attributes around psychic predisposition so maybe it's the caudate and potamen and the basal ganglia which gary nolan talks about which runs in families that you know if you're more neuronally dense there you're more likely to have ufo interactions They actually have differences in their brain in some of the cases you've seen that might explain why they're seeing them.

2:54:50Yeah, that they're basically smarter. And what's fascinating is it runs in families. In things like that, you know, RH negative blood or whatever, and then you're breeding over many successive generations. That's where my mind goes. The shoot down thing doesn't make sense to me. I mean, maybe on a very limited basis, but again, this is advanced technology. that's not learn um it makes more sense as a cover based on people i know and their interactions with some questionable groups out there it seems like they're more interested in females humans are more interested in the females than the males which makes sense if this is more of a breeding focus um yeah it doesn't the mind doesn't go to many good places um but i think we have to start confronting these questions and also start looking at you know who are the bad actors in in our communities that are exploiting our sisters um who who is not who they say they are or doing things that are questionable and demands secrecy from you in exchange for your you know free trip to somewhere or your participation in some exciting uh ufo call event are they are they are they who they say they are and are they doing it for what they say they are you know i think the ufo community has a durational penetration by our intelligence services and at this point i would argue organized criminal enterprises um it's not i don't think it's very safe for people that would describe themselves as empaths right now yeah it feels like they're uh being tracked or something and uh yeah yeah that's a weird weird phenomena um well uh yeah i don't know i don't know where to go from there um you said that humans are a resource presumably to the beings to these non-human intelligences and you've hinted at the fact that life is precious and unique and that's why they're here.

2:57:03What does that mean? Are we like, are we like gas or petroleum or, you know, some sort of rare earth mineral to them or like what, how does, how does that work in your mind? Yeah, it's multi-layered and, you know, there's some things I have more confidence on than others. I think with a certain degree of confidence that human potential is part of what their interest is uh the psychic potential potentially and our uh and our technological development and what we could become in the future whether that's like a a subservient race a proxy race um or you know something maybe less uh less cooperative than those options i don't know but um the human factor seems central to all of this um in my mind it's it is the key once we discover it we will explain a lot of the behavior of the others uh also i mean i mentioned you know like entertainment well i mean like if some of these things are humanoid then there's you know various unpleasant ways you can take that line of thought um but again if humans do it why not other sentient beings there's also the the consciousness aspect and in that sense you know if consciousness is non-local um there might be you know the the possibility of humans being essentially vehicles or shells or temporary experiences for these these things where they're able to ride along with us and experience life on earth uh that way um if i'm watching this i'm like this is all fascinating but this sort of analytical you know figuring out of what's going on could be done theoretically by an open source scientist how much of what you're saying right now is informed by things you feel like you know because you've seen documentation yeah good question so my advantage is less that I've been briefed into legacy program capabilities or activities.

2:59:22And it's more so that by virtue of my role and my level of interest in that role and its access, I was afforded a great deal of knowledge on frontier sciences and the transmutation of those scientific discoveries into capabilities that we use outside of the UFO subjects. So I have a very, not very, I have a, I think a very good foundation of what is possible and what is currently being done and what is like the next two steps ahead in our discoveries in the non-public realm. that then I can turn to the phenomenon that we're looking at here and say, okay, what could enable what we're seeing here, right?

3:00:07If humans are making these discoveries, where does that lead, you know, four or five generations down the line? So in some sense, it is, yeah, it is my own thinking. It is my own analysis, take it or leave it. But it is coming from a place of, I think, unique information, at least in the public world. Of course, people on the inside know more than me, but they're not talking to you. If you feel like you have an understanding of what's around the corner scientifically, are there any areas that you think we could have a stepwise update, huge leap in capabilities, or where the scientific consensus is actually way off in our current model of reality or current technology.

3:00:55So my disadvantage is that I'm not a trained scientist. In fact, pretty far from that, I'm focused on, or when I was involved in this stuff, I was focused on fact of and how it is applied, less of how it was learned, or the language used to describe it in a technical sense. But where are we going? I mean, I don't want to get myself in jail. Yeah, sure, sure. But I think, you know, what we're talking on with consciousness, being integrated with technology is a major area for changing the human experience. And in fact, I think is a, you know, is an opportunity to play catch up as it were in the public world versus the black.

3:01:44Less surprising is energy production. I think especially when it comes to you've talked on it. You've touched on it with Kirk McConnell when he was on here, extended electrodynamics. Yeah, I was going to bring that up. Yeah. And I think, you know, it's no accident Kirk came to this show first and no accident he brought that up. And so is the human brain wired in such a way, architected in such a way that it can function in these quantum mechanical ways and in terms of modern extended electrodynamics? He's deep. So he's Senate Armed Services Committee, and he was under Jack Reed, the senator from Rhode Island.

3:02:33And he knows all about extended electrodynamics, which is this idea that, you know, in classical electrodynamics, you have a typical transverse hertzian electromagnetic wave. So you have the electric field, the magnetic field, and wave propagation all running perpendicular to each other. And it's limited. It moves at 1 over r squared, and it decays and attenuates. And it decays and attenuates faster under C because of the existence of the magnetic field. the electrons pair off very quickly because of the salt water, for example. And so there's a lot of talk around this idea of extended electrodynamics, where you have a wave that could attenuate at one over R, and you'd have an electric field, a magnetic field, maybe running parallel.

3:03:20Maybe you wouldn't have a magnetic field. Maybe you wouldn't have an electric field. Or you'd have an electric field running parallel to wave propagation or a magnetic field running parallel to the wave propagation. and you could transmit signals through deep space and through you know underwater and you know undersea you know even salt water and it would you know be near instantaneous i think this is also called like scalar longitudinal waves or something like that or that's an application of that theory again i'm out of my depth when it comes to technical language but yes um the transmission of energy and really space instantaneously seems to be where that leads and also the extraction of energy it's a reversible process as well which is really fascinating and potentially very very dangerous my understanding is that the Russians I think are also very well versed in this seems to be the case people dismiss Thomas Bearden I mean whatever let's just say it's true he's a limited hang out mixed with disinformation you're covering up a core truth though which is that this is an area of physics that does have applications to security but those same applications are potentially you know world-changing in its term to certainly power transmission especially if you can connect this way of transmitting or extracting power with a novel energy source that is potentially limited only based on its, you know, your ability to extract energy, right?

3:05:03Very powerful economically. Thomas Bearden was this Navy guy who constantly talked about sort of scalar weaponry. He said that the Soviets sort of figured out this massive death ray sort of thing. And I mean, maybe it was a limited hangout, but the limited hangout around Maxwell's equations comes up so much that there has to be, there's when there's smoke, there's fire. So there has to be something around a change in the math of Maxwell's equations, or maybe being going back to Maxwell's equations, which were actually condensed into heavy sides for vector calculus, simplified equations. There's something there the crossover to sort of what you're talking about which is like the latent potential in just the vacuum or the void again is where there's smoke their fire kind of situation so like a zero point energy sort of thing basically yeah i think um we're circling quantum vacuum fluctuations that you can harness that might be it yeah um again only a concern with the fact of when i was sure learning these things yeah yeah yeah um anything that you know the other thing i find interesting is like spin orbit coupling of uh like you have these what are called topological insulators do you know anything no i don't or plasma stuff like topological insulators are like uh you know like when you get into like very high up in the periodic table like very heavy elements um few of them are stable but take one like bismuth i think which i think comes up a lot in sort of ufo lore bismuth's very strange and uh you end up in this thing it's called the you know it's the relativistic paradigm where uh when it's infused with energy uh you end up with this repellent magnetic force instead of an inward attracting magnetic force so it's almost like a meisner effect like it's like an anti-gravitational push off on anything trying to sort of touch it and um i think there's something around that that seems really consequential as well because it dovetails with the lazar stuff and yeah the brown stuff but we can no it's fine what would you you what would be the utility of that i wonder is it levitation was like a inherent property of an object that is if you could push off on the magnetic field of the earth that would be really cool got it okay yeah see that seems to be one of the modes of propulsion you know i don't know the mechanisms behind it but uh that at that high level is something i've heard um you know whether that gets you out of the gravitational well of the earth i don't know but how far do you think we've gotten in reverse engineering these things hmm i think enough to have propulsion and beamed power so that you don't necessarily have to have an onboard power source for these devices especially if you're able to do lossless or near lossless power beaming you can do some pretty incredible things in relatively small form factors and if you're able to you know put your power beaming system in orbit then you're able to essentially have global coverage and potentially you know have indefinite duration surveillance or operations staged in the atmosphere or exoatmosphere how high confidence are you that some come from outer space into our atmosphere oh i mean certainty certainty yeah um Yeah, definitely.

3:08:50I mean, again, whether that means they're interstellar or interplanetary, that doesn't prove that, but able to come in and out of our atmosphere. And that's from stuff you've seen on the inside. Yes. And then also like, you know, other people's testimony as well. I mean, if this was any other subject, the amount of witness testimony from people with placement and access would be overwhelming. 100 % no I always say that I agree with that where do you draw the line on what you can and can't say

3:09:24to some I mean largely based on the department of state cleared report and then inferences drawn from that report so if I was to talk about something that I don't have a cleared basis to draw that inference from but that inference is classified in other sense. I feel like I'm on shaky ground. To put it simply, it seems like I'm more okay so far saying what I think and less of why I think it. Yeah. And you've experienced some pretty shitty reprisals, to put it euphemistically, right? yeah um you know i keep a lot of things close to my chest uh one because there's nothing really to do about them especially if they're state sponsored or corporate sponsored or foreign um two i mean burden of proof is on the accuser but if you know you're not i'm not living with 24-hour surveillance around me recording all my interactions so if something happens um and then i come forward with my word well i'm the ufo guy so it's easy to dismiss what i say um and you know the believe all victims thing doesn't seem to extend to ufo whistleblowers um it's been very unpleasant and you've had your house continuing broken into yeah that's a that's a well-known one and it's mentioned the most because there's a you know someday they can go get the police record for it called them had them visit and all that it's just you know what's the point um police were just as confused as i was about the whole thing which is you know nothing of value was taken except for yeah nothing of value was taken the only thing that was like totally removed from the premise and never recovered was my civilian passport my grandfather's ashes were put out in the in the in the alley behind our house by the garbage and you know my wife's documents were laid out in a way that clearly and look like you know someone lined them up in a row take a taking a photo of them and leave them out there for us to find they took your passport lined up your wife's documents showing that they were sort of combing them over and then that's so disrespectful man they took her grandfather's ashes and they put them behind the alley yeah yeah and uh you know it all happened when we were there asleep the only sign of entry was a very small basement window that was forced open and like i i failed to see how an adult male can get in there um so it was more likely that that was just done intentionally to to demonstrate you know something had happened and they probably just came through my front door picked the lock and you know walked in i think there's like an old stassi method of like it's i think it's called like move the furniture around which is they show you that they can they can touch you and it's a lot like that yeah yeah um you know i've had at this point i'm people that either believe me or don't so it's less

3:12:42costly to talk about things but i mean there's been other instances of of um you know either people demonstrating that they can reach out and touch me at any time or incidentally just detecting some sort of surveillance or similar kind of operation being conducted um yeah you said that um office of special investigations in the air force is actively messing with ufo whistleblowers and uh their families and stuff as well and getting into their private lives is that is that right yeah we got i mean that's that wasn't my experience but that was that is someone's experience in this world they're not public um but and there but there was proof in this case of it being an afosi officer

3:13:41you know there's no protections for whistleblowers there's no witness protection program for congress we're out here on our own

3:13:52you know i've had instances that feel like foreign intelligence trying to penetrate my network and extract information and also deliver threats. That's certainly very concerning to me, both from, you know, I'm an American patriot. I don't want national secrets being extracted from me for foreign competitors gain, but then also concerning, which is that in the world of intelligence, you know, using third parties to take care of your dirty dishes, take out your trash is something that's done because then it's deniable, right? It's not U.S. assets removing a person. It's foreign assets. So very uncomfortable.

3:14:38That's super uncomfortable. How has all of this affected you emotionally? And do you ever regret coming out?

3:14:48I mean, I feel like I'm doing okay now, but for a long time it's very stressful. And you get to a point where you're hyper-vigilant And then, you know, you're responding to things that aren't a threat in a way that doesn't match like the gravity of what's going on. So, you know, that's not good for anyone involved. Anybody deep into UFOs has been there. Yeah, that's not a healthy lifestyle by any means.

3:15:22Do I regret coming forward? I mean, on a personal level, yes. It's done nothing good for me or my wife or my friends and family. There's been no meaningful reform. There's been no official disclosure. There's been no justice for anyone, whether myself, other whistleblowers, or the people involved in Legacy Program, or the victims of associated activities. people get entertainment out of this they get their curiosity satisfied to a certain degree they get to mock and laugh if they don't believe so on a personal level yeah i have a lot of regrets it's uh there's been zero benefit only downsides and people that uh people in my life have been hurt just because of you know virtue of association with me but from a civic duty perspective, from a moral duty perspective, from a, you know, what is good for humanity perspective.

3:16:23No, I don't have regrets. It needed to be done. Um, I just hope that, you know, eventually it leads to meaningful change. What do you wake up every morning now feeling now that you're on the outside?

3:16:43hmm nothing so nothing very dramatic i'm more i've tried to focus more on my you know physical spiritual and emotional health uh focus more on being a good husband a good brother a good friend so what am i thinking about it's how to do those things each day um and you know disclosure is kind of uh it's always in the background it's never going anywhere um but it's uh it's not the first thing i think about anymore so that's healthy speaking of whistleblower protections you have this very cool new initiative maybe put your leg down so yeah i see your shirt what does that say vanguard yes what is vanguard so this is a vanguard and vanguard enterprise Vanguard for short it's a non-profit that Dylan Borland and myself have started and Jeffrey Nusitelli has now joined it's basic it's pretty simple it's a organization a charity to support and empower UAP whistleblowers from the national security enterprise helping them with their legal financial slash career transition medical psychological and community needs we're very much in early days on that you know we have a short list of people we know need help and we you know need to raise the resources to fulfill on delivering those forms of assistance but you know it's been encouraging some yeah it's been encouraging to see some serious community support and hope to build off of that and try to help people because the government isn't.

3:18:25That's beautiful, man. And where can people donate? You can find our website, vanguardenterprise.org. There's a link to support. We use a platform called Give Butter. It's only for nonprofits. So every donation you made through there, you automatically get an email and you can use that to claim any taxes as a charitable donation. Sweet. What's that trippy pyramid floating around above Earth? and then you have the upside down triangle it's a very interesting logo yeah we spent a lot of time on it um how we have a great team of volunteers that have been helping us for for a while now and this is one of one of their products um you know there's there's various ways the symbolism can be interpreted but where we started with was the world war ii v for victory and that's kind of where we based the shape on and then from there uh kind of got this evocative motif going very cool anything else we missed or um probably can't go into it too much but i would just also add that another area of science and technology that people should be aware of is advancing or has advanced quite rapidly it is in the biotechnology realm and that definitely overlays with the phenomena that we're talking about um and it is currently you know one of the most uh unrecognized i guess trends that's gonna that is in the process of changing our environment what sort of biotech genetic editing definitely i mean definitely when it comes to you know uh constructing or changing the human genome for specific purposes, but things like entirely synthetic biological constructs, and then the interplay between directed energy and synthetic or modified biology.

3:20:29There's some very important things that people should start pulling the threat on in those areas and that this again gets back to consciousness and and how it is manipulated through both natural means and increasingly technological means so like psychotronic weaponry so i've only heard that term on the outside yeah but i mean yes i think we eventually get there i think that's more specifically a directed energy application but could you cause somebody to hear or see something through directed energy definitely here yeah um i you know directed energy is a very broad uh category i have very good reason to believe that you know essentially our mind is no longer sovereign uh it can be interfaced with through remote means as well as you know direct you know kind of devices right even our dreams are now subject to technological manipulation this isn't even classified knowledge at least anymore you can look at technical applications from mit itself relating to dream implantation including at a distance whoa so you know and do you think ideas can be implanted in somebody's waking life?

3:21:54Yes. That's freaky. It is. In your high confidence. I'm certain. That's insane. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's interesting. I interviewed this guy, Dr. Colin Ross, and he wrote a book called CIA Doctors. And it's all the whole MKUltra thing and how all these psychiatrists were distributed across the United States, often at elite universities. And Jolly West, for example, was head of UCLA psychiatry for a very long time. He's talking with Sidney Gottlieb back and forth. He's probably MKUltring, you know, Charles Manson. Like, it's wild, like, the history of our country. And it's interesting. He wrote a follow-up book on directed energy and electromagnetism in the body.

3:22:35And so it's not even wacky at all to say that electromagnetism has this fundamental influence on life. You know, there's a great professor named Michael Levin at Tufts. And he talks about, you know, how morphology, like basically the form that your body takes is more dictated by the local electromagnetic field than it is by DNA. And that in some ways that's the, you know, the DNA is providing the proteins, which is the hardware, but the software that's writing on top of it is electromagnetism. And if you put a frog embryo, for example, in a Faraday cage, so you eliminate, you know, all electromagnetic interference, it won't grow correctly.

3:23:17And then if you put something next to something radioactive, like, you know, in, you know, Chernobyl, like, you know, things get mutated or near the Fukushima disaster, you have excess radiation or no radiation. If you eliminate the Schumann resonance, even astronauts have issues with their bodies when they go into space. So there's something about electromagnetism in life. And our cells communicate via voltage-gated ion channels. It's very, very essential. It's fundamental. Yeah. And if you look at all the Havana syndrome, directed energy stuff, the person is being wholly destabilized by microwaves, essentially.

3:23:53Yes. So. I think this is another area where it's provably suppressed science, the interaction between the human body and our nervous system, our organs. But you think we can, semantic content can be relayed into somebody's life? No, it can. Oh my God. And this isn't even like a natural, like a woo or psychic thing that through artificial means, ideas can be implanted or transferred or played in the human mind in multiple ways, actually. you know uh the most crude of which you could call like the voice to skull technologies i never saw that on the inside i know a different term but that's the public one um there's those again public things which is like you know using a pulse microwave to cavitate uh water and essentially generate sound or heat and also interestingly enough light light is able to modulate DNA.

3:24:58You know, biophysics as a field is an area that has immense potential to change the human experience for both the better and the worst. And I think, unfortunately, most of this research has been in the security, intelligence, and military realm. So the applications are understandably focused on things not oriented towards human flourishing, more towards control and such. Naturally. I mean, when you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail and you're not going to be engaging in the research for the betterment of humanity. You're going to be doing it for sort of destructive means. But it's so unfortunate when you end up with civil side science that's lagging, you know, all sorts of really exciting stuff behind the Iron Curtain and it's only being used for weapons.

3:25:42We're still flying 747s from, you know, the 60s. And we still use... Again, it's not even crazy at all to say, you know, biochemistry is the only layer with which we treat the body. And fundamental to biochemistry is physics, it's acoustics and electromagnetism, all three of those things. That's not, that's passe to say, it's conventional in science to say that. So why wouldn't we have some sort of deeper, more granular understanding of how those three things interact with the human body? Of course we would. And then where I'm both freaked out, but also intrigued, because I'm sure there are really positive applications of this, is how the hell would you distill an electromagnetic signal into like semantic content and then transmit that into somebody's mind?

3:26:34Like that's, you know, that's the secret sauce. I wish I could give you that answer, but I actually suspect, you know, there's enough leads in the open source or gray literature on this that, you know, motivated parties could replicate that capability. Do you ever wonder if we're playing in sort of padded walls, like the whole UFO conversation is somewhat limited and it's limited by people who have capabilities on the level of, you know, being able to confine what we're thinking about and causing us to sort of chase our tail? Like, often it feels like right when you're about to get smoking gun evidence, it goes missing.

3:27:16And I talked about this with Dylan, you know, Borland. I was like, do you think that the non-human intelligence is involved in the cover up itself or something? And he was like, yes. I for sure know that. My opinion? Absolutely, yes. Have you ever talked to anybody in a credible position in the government who seems to have hinted that humans aren't in charge? The ICIG did it with me personally. I want to respect them. The ICIG did it with me. So the intelligence community inspector general told you that humans are not in charge. They extremely hinted at it, yes. It's almost like a defining, almost design feature of the entire UFO space is like you and Jacques Vallée writes about this and he wrote about it 50 years ago.

3:28:05And I don't know if he's that much closer to the truth now than he is then after decades of studying this thing. You're in this construct. Their control mechanisms are being used to cause you to literally chase your tail. And you are always on the verge of some smoking gun and it always slips through your fingers. yeah i mean on on one side of that is is i mean this is a heavily monitored community um so they know what we're talking about and once you know they detect that you know there might be an effort to try to actually get something you know they're already well aware yeah they can take that preemptive measure um but it makes sense though that you know the others or the non-human intelligences would, if, as they seem to be, are invested in keeping us unaware of their presence, that they would kind of prevent independent discovery outside of their controlled relationships with human proxies.

3:29:04I believe, Dylan, I also believe that what that points at is collaboration between us and some sort of third party. most likely in my mind we're the juniors in that partnership yeah makes sense well on that note matthew brown thank you so much for coming this has been a long time coming this is a lot of fun and uh yeah i just uh i don't know i hope that please donate to vanguard check out the website what's the website vanguardenterprise.org okay check that out donate please give whatever you have and um yeah i really appreciate you coming thank you jesse this was a quite a pleasure like you said long time coming i'm really happy to to finally have the chance to do this so thank you yeah wide-ranging discussion awesome

3:30:20I'll see you next week.