“The UFO Program Recruited Me From School!” [Exclusive Interview]

27:23But the lines were surveilled. So you would get through to 911 and then immediately an operator would take over and be like, hey, sorry, someone from the school. one of the kids is like prank dialing 911. So there was like no way in or out of any of this. Also, you're a kid. And when you're a kid, you can get conditioned into, you know, feeling some sort of Stockholm syndrome. And you're told, oh, no, we're doing this for your benefit or whatever. And you're really highly impressionable. And you mentioned, too, that they gave you, there's like this critical window of heightened kind of extrasensory perception ability.

27:59And it's before puberty. and they would give you puberty blockers to sort of enhance this? There was all sorts of stuff being administered to me while I was in there. You know, like on paper, right? Like, so looking back on my own records, like there were, I think, over a dozen antipsychotics that I was on during these like two years. So things like Haldol, Zoloft, like just to name a few, just a ridiculous amount of medications. that does not reflect what was being administered inside the facility that my parents didn't know about there were other things that i was being taken there was other things for specific sessions right that would be given that i don't even know um you know when it comes to the the level of like hey there's some psi or you know some ability within our brains in a prepubescent era um yeah that was communicated to me um and i believe it has something to do with relation over like right and left hemispheres before they're fully formed during puberty.

28:58But I think essentially it's just at that younger age, I had an ability to essentially exert more than someone else that was an adult. And what sort of experiments would they have you do and what would they test you on? So a lot of the testing, we can kind of think this started off very baseline of like ESP, Right. So kind of like thinking about extra sensory perception and how that would show up for people. And I was told from like a number one day that you can just think of all this. This was like ESP training is what essentially, you know, was happening to me there for the idea of this later being utilized in like a defense establishment style progression funnel.

29:41But, you know, in the beginning, right, ESP and it's highly structured for each person. And that's what I would be told. Right. Like, for example, they would be giving me a lot of tests and a lot of experiments and like seeing how I respond or seeing how I would apply this because there was no like rubric or there was no like cheat sheet on like you do the same thing every time and it works the same way for everyone. I was instead told that everyone's highly unique and you need to kind of develop your own way of doing this. Once you have your own way of doing this, we'll help you amplify it. That's kind of a way to think about that.

30:18So, for example, a lot of the very early on sessions would be understanding my abilities. How are they showing up from a cognitive perspective? Did I process information more kinesthetically? Right. Like, was it more I feel things in my body? Was I processing it more auditory? Right. Like, hey, telepathy, I hear it. Right. Or in my case, I was a highly visual person. So I had the ability to get out of my body, see in the other room, see things from a distance and kind of shift my awareness visually. So for the progression of most of the time in these two years, I was highly working on visual abilities.

31:00So sort of similar to remote viewing programs or, you know, astral projection or out of body, things like that. 100 percent. Yeah. So we were we were doing a lot different stuff than like you'll see from like the Stanford Research Institute or like the Stargate area where you see a lot of like CRV techniques, right? like controlled, repeatable, follow a technical process. I was given a whole kind of different regimen of like training and teaching that kind of relied primarily on getting our subconscious mind to believe that something was possible. And I can kind of go into this in a little bit more detail.

31:39So for like a typical remote viewing exercise, you're given a target, you may have a protocol, maybe you're doing some meditation or some bilateral simulation or auditory stuff to help you take information out of that target. You might see it visually, you might see it otherwise, otherwise you're taking information, you know, kind of from the field. In my training, they were more interested with getting me to subconsciously believe that awareness is essentially the substrate of this entire universe. And our awareness can shift into any other piece of awareness in this underlying universe. so what this would mean is like instead of trying to remote view into a room or let's say i remote viewed into a hallway but i was having issues getting through a door there was a lot of subconscious training to basically help me understand that my awareness could become the door i could become the room i could become the filing cabinet where the documents are in and then extract the information that way so it was a lot less viewing it was a lot more manipulating your own awareness to become the things that we see in the universe.

32:51That's fascinating. So it's almost like a panpsychist worldview or something where maybe everything is somewhat conscious or everything is at least awareness and you can port your own awareness into what we think of as even inanimate unconscious objects. 100%. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like the underlying substrate of the universe as we want to take it back, whether it's awareness or it is this undefined substrate. It is accessible, malleable and reflexive to awareness. So you can either a place your awareness in it or you could perhaps exert some control for shifting your awareness. It's either a possible vessel for awareness or it's awareness itself or it's somehow compatible with awareness.

33:33Yeah. Yeah. I tell this story, too, for a lot of people like, you know, as we get into the consciousness research now, I often use the analogy that like consciousness, you can perceive more as like a vehicle. Imagine a car, four tires, right? And a steering wheel. And that's how you can kind of think as consciousness. It's like the vehicle that gets driven. However, awareness is actually what's sitting in the driver's seat of the car, right? So a lot of things can hold consciousness, but awareness is actually that kind of like universal substrate of like the is. And when you follow that perception better, you can kind of better understand, well, like how could you get out of your body?

34:13How could you shift into something? Well, it's actually not necessarily consciousness. It's like that's the holder and the vehicle and the container. But there's awareness. That's a step deeper. Fascinating. So what sort of specifically they would say, OK, remote view what's in the other room or would they give you a target like in, you know, we hear about in kind of traditional military remote viewing programs? yeah all sorts of different all sorts of different exercises uh i would be given targets a lot of this was like testing right so it's like there there were in terms of like the regimented aspect like they did have these exercises kind of mapped out um for a lot of the remote viewing or like the astral projections the way that we were doing it like i just described we were actually doing it with a partner so like meg in that example would often like walk through what we call the relaxation exercise, right?

35:04But in reality, it was some type of auditorial stimulation, right? The headphones, different binaural beats that were helping me access, you know, different brainwave states. And then, you know, Meg would have essentially kind of like a checklist, right? And this checklist was to get my subconscious mind to relax. This would be like, hey, we are, we're flying a plane, you don't have to worry about flying the plane, all you need to do is tell me what you see right so i would be you know continuously walked down through a state of consciousness to where you know i was outside of my body and there was like a partner duo team of coaching uh giving inputs on like i need you to go here what do you see right and then where that actually served a huge benefit is like um in traditional remote viewing right it's very common for a remote viewer to like get to a certain point and just hit a roadblock and just be like i can't get through this.

35:58But if you have someone else in the experience with you, you can kind of riff on each other, right? So you can think of other out of the box solutions to get your awareness to the target or wherever you're trying to go. So everything that we were doing was highly team based. And for most of those two years, right, this was like they had some outcomes that they already knew, right? And this was kind of tracking my accuracy on how good I could get. Were they using an EEG to map your electrical brain signals? So not for like every remote viewing astral projection signal, but that was a key part of this, you know, development in the program.

36:36So, you know, earlier on the chair, right, I call it the chair, but this was where a lot of my traumatic memories actually like came back in that earlier 22. Like the ones that I really didn't understand would be me in a chair with what I now know now is like a neurofeedback EEG headset. but at the time, right, didn't have the language to articulate it. And a screen, right, with my brainwaves being shown. And I would be asked to like cycle through different cognitive applications, like, hey, visualize something, or, you know, try to communicate, you know, with the plant, right, whatever type of, you know, ESP level thing we were doing.

37:13And they were watching my brainwave signals. And then I would be asked at certain times to be like, hey, whatever you just did two seconds ago i need you to repeat that so they were highly interested uh in theta spikes as well as gamma spikes and there was some level of neurofeedback being used to like reinforce this so as i would actually like exert hey i visualized in a unique way well that produced a gamma spike they were interested in how can we get that to hold longer why do you think theta and gamma were interesting to them uh just deeper levels of like neuron level of um uh like symbiosis like for example like in a gamma spike or when the brain's really operating like at a gamma level um it's almost as if like every neuron's beginning to synchronize and almost fire at the same time so instead of just having a reduced brain wave state right um you're having essentially like This is where I'm not a neurologist.

38:11I'm not a neuroscientist, just to be very clear here. I'm butchering this up just from my own understanding. But basically, I think that there's a high level of amplitude when it comes to ESP level activities when somebody can get into a gamma state. Yeah, it's a it's extremely high frequency and like like, you know, one of the highest. And it's interesting that you were saying that they wanted you to access your subconscious. It's almost like undergirding your conscious thoughts are these subconscious beliefs. I don't want to interrupt. No, please. No, just to add on that. So like that's a huge key part of like any type of psychic development.

38:50If your subconscious does not believe that whatever you're doing is possible, then your conscious mind will not allow it to be possible. Your subconscious has to believe it. Right. It's like belief almost equals reality in this regard. And I think this applies to like a lot of people when they hear about psychic phenomena, they hear about UFOs or UAP, like they're very well may be a cognitive filter that we don't yet have mapped. Right. And like, why do some people experience some things? Why do some people see a UAP, but some don't. Right. There might literally be like a subconscious protective mechanism where if your subconscious mind doesn't believe that it's possible, then it's not going to become possible in your reality, your experience or perception.

39:28and I believe that to be true just because of how much work went into getting, you know, me trained on the subconscious level. If you can do this, you can remove you, you can shift your awareness, you can do all these things. You have to believe it. One of my favorite quotes is Henri Bergson, the eyes can only see what the mind can comprehend. And that's, you know, I think this beautiful and very telling sort of, and they do, they do these tests where it's, you know, did you see the gorilla walking across the room? Like you were counting the amount of dribbles in the video or whatever. And, you know, people don't see the obvious thing because they're not looking for it.

40:03So attention is really important. And they even get into the reticular activation system in the brain and why that is. There are all sorts of studies around that. And then hypnosis too. It's like, you can literally, you know, go to a magic show and, you know, somebody will get you into some sort of hypnotized state on stage or you could see this in the audience. And you say, you know, hey, you're stuck to the floor. And all of a sudden the person stuck to the floor, they can't move their arms apart. So the subconscious mind is extremely powerful as far as, you know, how it affects your reality.

40:40And yeah, that's interesting. So they're using biofeedback, almost some sort of like Pavlovian conditioning, or you have this partner who's kind of helping you get into these states where you can move around as far as your subconscious more freely. Or you can, to put it better, you can actually change your subconscious beliefs, whereas you're not getting that deep in sort of normal conscious awareness. Is that right? Yeah, yeah. That's one way to think about it. You know, ultimately, like the partner level dynamic of this, one, it was just kind of more useful for the training. But two, right, you had someone else that could provide a secondary perspective, right?

41:22And like, just for the viewer, like to imagine this, like, I'm in a deep, relaxed, meditative state, right? I'm probably like in a theta wave state. I have some level of binaural beats, right, that are helping me kind of shift my awareness out of body. however i'm still able to communicate right like through my mouth right i'm not like in my body i'm visualizing i'm way out here but the act of talking is still kind of something that i can do right and from that i can still hear right the partner uh that's next to me that can help me maybe understand here's a way to think outside of the box so if you get stalled you're trying to get into a different place trying to get into a different thing that partner can give you a secondary perspective that's useful that you can apply back into the experience um so you know different perspectives are like that was the key to all of this um so like this this whole different level of like projection and viewing if you could imagine the way that you viewed whatever you were viewing right whether that be from the third person perspective or perhaps like i use the example before, if you run into a roadblock, you're trying to see what's on the other side of a door and you can't seemingly find a way to get your awareness there.

42:37Well, your awareness can become that door, right? Like that's that idea of, you know, seeing outside the box. And do you get the sense that they want your skills at this facility because of their functional benefit for specific operations? Or is it more like, let's train Jordan up to be this child super soldier psychic so as we've like now seen right in this um you know disclosure cycle you know the pieces that have been really held back and for good reason right because here i am there's massive human rights violations um you know but what this was serving what was this what was i a part of well i was in a you know psionic development uh pipeline for legacy program development so the idea being is i i was not supposed to leave this program right this was hey for a few years while your brain is in the state that we can make malleable and train before puberty.

43:32We can install these things. We can get you highly specialized in whatever your specialty is going to be. And then later on, you're going to end up being sucked into deeper levels of the legacy program, whether that be UAP and crash retrieval operations or whether that be, hey, our remote viewing, espionage or other level psionic applications. So this was like one of the aspects of that pipeline that would have went on to serve that. What convinces you that this was sort of a feeder for the UFO Legacy Program? Because I think some people listening might be like, okay, this is psi, this is extrasensory perception.

44:08Isn't that wholly separate from, you know, nuts and bolts, UFOs, reverse engineering, that sort of thing? Yeah, yeah. Well, they're not. And mainly because I interacted at later stages with this, with what we consider like recovered materials. Other language used from inside the program were actually relics. Make of that what you will. But I've told the story publicly on a piece of technology that I interacted with that I'm happy to kind of tell again here. And the story is about this piece of tech. Yeah. And this is at the same Baker facility. Yeah. So this was brought in. So this tech, whenever we worked with tech, it never existed in the facility.

44:48But what happened is there would be a team that would bring it in. Highly specialized, highly structured, never see these people. I wasn't allowed to interact with them. But essentially, it'd be like eight security personnel and a huge box. And then I would be in the room with a team of people watching me. And they were utilizing me essentially in the experience that I'll get to here next to better understand how something worked. that wouldn't communicate with them, but would actually communicate telepathically to people with certain types of consciousness, and I was one of them. And what we'll find as disclosure continues, or as we already know from people that have spoken out like Jacob Barber and others, is that consciousness is actually the root of disclosure.

45:34Consciousness is the root of UAP and UFO phenomena. It's not necessarily a materialistic aspect. it's that there's something far more whether you want to consider it dimensional or not that is taking on materialistic form but consciousness is the core piece of all of it so you begin to see the world not necessarily some fixed static materialistic universe that we live in you see it as something that's dynamic reflexive and the underlying substrate is not materialistic it's how we perceive it at our level of consciousness so here's another interesting you know kind of story that ties into this because it in that program that i worked on right uh we also worked with something called rngs right or random number generators and for those that aren't familiar right it's um you know many different ways to build rngs some are better than others i won't get into the the details but just think random number generator right we as in i would have the ability to influence it with my thoughts.

46:37And this was one of the ways that they like very early tested, you know, was this person psychically active? Could they have an effect on that field that I'm describing? And even though this is technological, a random number generator, there are examples where I personally and watched other kids push them sigmas, sigmas of multitudes and held for hours just by using our thoughts. That's amazing. Yeah. So you can standard deviations of changes on these things that are supposed to be tied to random quantum mechanical events. So things like radioactive isotope decay or, you know, double slit experiment where you'd expect a 50-50 on, you know, the left slit, the right slit.

47:18and that is tied to what's a binary computer where you have ones and zeros and what you're saying is you can affect it in a really statistically significant way to get a lot of ones or a lot of zeros. Yeah, yeah. It's actually one of the most fun things to teach that you can actually do this as an individual. You can go find a Flash RNG. You can go find an RNG online. We're building an RNG later in our app that we'll kind of get to later in this episode. but you can test your own ability to do this right and you can figure out and hone in that own intuitive signal there's not again a one-size-fits-all that works for everyone some people are like wow i kinesthetically imagine myself vibrating and then the rng moves for someone else it's i think of love right and then the rng moves like uh everyone has the kind of their own unique signals that seem to affect and have a better relationship with the field around us.

48:14But like, that's one of the most interesting things that I think people, when they begin like looking into Psy or they're hearing about past psychic stuff, they want to see, look, there's no data, there's no nothing. And I'm not going to say that that proves some mechanism or some exact connection of why and how, but there's definitely a correlation. There's definitely correlation. And there's actually a ton of data. There's a ton of data from the Princeton, you know, parapsychology lab, the Paralab, the Princeton Engineering and anomalous research lab, which was founded by Bob John, who was the dean of the engineering school, who, you know, a lot of whose, you know, plasma propulsion exists today in satellites, was very well respected and studied this stuff for decades from 78 to 2007 or something.

48:59And came out being like, without a shadow of a doubt, this is real. And he would engage with top level physicists and they would say things like, oh, it was a survivorship bias and file drawer and, you know, you're making this up. And he'd say, no, look at the data. And sort of you end up in these sort of infinite loop things where they say it can't be. And he was like, no, it is. And it's wholly consistent with the, you know, Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics that the observer collapses the wave function. It's just that the observer, we have no model now for which, you know, other than, you know, the square of the amplitude, which is, you know, the likelihood, the probability that you get a certain eigenstate.

49:41We have no mechanistic understanding of which eigenstate, which state in a wave function gets picked. But anyway, I do want to get back to the core because we left people very excited, I'm sure, about this relic, which was, it was, what did it look like exactly? Yeah, yeah. So my first introduction of this was actually not in the facility. Okay. I think that my interaction and the experience that I'm going to describe here was highly paramount into me getting removed from the public school system and into the facility. It was almost like a check. But basically, I had, as I described, one of those psychologists, right, that were still coming to see me in the public school system.

50:20um i was taken out and i was actually brought to his office okay right and as i walked into his office right just think normal blending in residential neighborhood run-of-the-mill psychologist this isn't deep underground military base it's just super run-of-the-mill uh i walk in i'm being instructed to you know go see um uh you know go see the doctor and as i opened the door the first thing that I noticed is like, well, even before I opened the door in the hallway, leading into where the therapy office was, I noticed that there was like two people at the end of the hallway that I've never seen before.

50:58Plain clothes, dress, just like two big dudes. I'm like, that's weird. And as I, they opened the door and I get brought in immediately, there's, um, my doctor, the psychologist, uh, a, uh, woman that I've never seen before glasses, business professional dressed uh skirt like uh wearing has a clipboard um and she's sitting down next to them like on a couch together and is this before or after the baker victory services this is this is three months before i got put in a baker victory okay this is three months okay uh and this is just run of the mill i get pulled out of the psychologist yeah get pulled out of the school system going to see the psychologist get brought in the office this happens okay uh so yep there's people in the hallway i've never seen before there's my psychologist and then there's also this this female right clipboard will not make eye contact with me like weirdly enough like won't even acknowledge my existence and i felt that was like super odd and then there's a few other people a few other just like big males again like plain clothed in the room like looking out the windows uh in this office in the center like think table maybe combined size if you put these together um there is a table it's a couch table people over here i'm asked to kind of go take a seat next to this table there's what in my young mind i would call a blanket right over an object that i can't make out over this like coffee table um looking backwards now like the blanket was like like some type of faraday shielding right some type of like electromagnetic shielding or something um but my psychologist who i knew right begins talking to me none of the other people in the room will talk to me that the female won't no one's this is what was just like very eerie for me at the time but the psychologist is like hi jordan like hey we have something really special for you today uh you don't have to do anything uh we just want you to tell us what you think of something right uh we're going to show it to you again you don't have to do anything just tell me what you think about it right i'm like already traumatized nervous what's happening okay this again uh so some uh i think was the female she pulls the blanket like the faraday shielding off uh from the coffee table and sitting at the center of the coffee table on a pedestal right that like a three-pronged pedestal is what i would describe as a think of a wizard's orb like quite seriously little bit smaller than a basketball has a defined shell clear looking like wizard's ball right now here's what's unique about this okay it has a defined shell it's a literal crystal orb but the inside of this orb for lack of a better word was alive so it had a structure that if you could imagine almost like um if you were to imagine jupiter in your mind and jupiter's like swirling atmosphere imagine that inside this sphere but highly white highly crystallized, highly like almost you're looking into a VVS diamond.

54:01It's fractalized, it's swirling, and it's emitting its own light source. So there's this, it's fixed, defined shell, crystal orb, crystal sphere. There's this inside structure that I can only really attribute to. It is alive. It is alive. How big is it? A little bit smaller than a basketball. A little bit smaller than a basketball. So like, you know, maybe take a quarter off of your globe on that side and what color uh think like white diamond okay uh the color was really hard on this because it was almost like think of your studio lights almost actually it was like this fractalized light uh inside of it and outside of it there wasn't really like a color it was just this white pure light um and it's emitting light out of it right what's interesting the first thing that i notice is the psychologist goes like hey we want you you don't have to do anything just tell me what you think about it and i look at it right so i actually take my two eyes and i lock eye contact with this thing and as i locked eye contact with it the inside structure that i described right that was like fractalized like jupers atmosphere kind of swirling it adapts and it like changes and it's almost as if this object as i'm looking at it is now looking back at me right so that is the first thing that I noticed this happens within like two seconds um and when that happens I actually become like really scared because I also begin feeling this somatic sensation um I felt it very much like literally in my brain where I almost felt like this thing was coming into me and it made me like terrified uh I didn't ever feel that sensation it wasn't telepathy it was like hey this thing is almost linking with you is the way that I actually felt.

55:48And I was just like highly terrified of it. I noticed that as I moved my eyes back and forth, right, this inside structure was actually like mirroring my eye movement. And that lasted for 30 seconds. And the blanket was put back over the thing. And the psychologist, his words to me were like, wow, you did great. you did great you did great you don't have to do anything um it picks who it likes and i think it likes you Whoa. That is wild. And that was the start of my relationship with Sylvia. They named the orb Sylvia? It was her name. Yeah, it was her name. And I mean that mainly because as I later, you know, started this relationship to where essentially the people in the program had this thing.

56:44I don't know where it came from. I don't know where this crystal orb came from. It was never told me. The sentient consciousness, as I'll get into and expand as I interact with this, never told me where it was from. It wasn't like, oh, we found this from a spacecraft or we dug this up over anywhere. I will note that the people within the program, the people that were actually shepherding this thing around, didn't call it tech. They called it a relic. called it a relic yeah and they said its name is sylvia or did it transmit its name to you so that was my first time interacting with it like locally right so it was in the room with me i had this really quick like 30 second make eye contact it looks at me i could feel it right like that was it that was it um now fast forward right three months later now i'm back in this facility uh i have this trainer meg right um as we're exploring esp um she brings up like hey i heard you met sylvia right and like can you recall that experience and i was brought into like another relaxation exercise um she says i heard you met sylvia that orb thing her name is sylvia yeah yeah yeah well we to back up there was a there was some context in that conversation i heard that you were introduced to something right and and i was actually brought into like this relaxation exercise with meg and she was like do you know what its name is and as i'm in this relaxation exercise um i could take myself out of body and i almost like make contact so it's like as if once i was physically linked with this you know like device relic whatever you want to call it um it was like it developed like a tunnel or a pathway to where like i could communicate with it back and this began a longer process throughout the program to where they wanted to better understand this thing so that first example with meg i saw it once different psychologist's office now i'm back here in this whole program attic environment um i was actually asked what do you think its name is and i could uh like take myself into this astral environment feel the same energy from it and it would show up to me visually like this very silver fractalizing type energy and in one of the experiences it was telling me that his name was sylvia so later on it was brought back in and i was essentially like this in-between process to better understand what they couldn't understand about it right so it didn't telepathically link with anyone else it wouldn't talk to anyone else they didn't know what this thing was was basically my understanding so i would be given tasks on like, hey, we need you to go talk to Sylvia and we need you to come back with like a schematic.

59:38We want you to draw how it works or we want you to give us a blueprint on how it works. We need you to ask it these things. We need you to go back and forth. Do you remember anything that it transmitted to you? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So here's the really interesting things with it, right? So here's this crystal orb device, fractal, right? It was sentient and conscious and felt alive. It didn't communicate through mouth. It communicated telepathically. As it would communicate telepathically, the first and foremost, like the most interesting thing is that it was feminine, right? So it wasn't like, this is just an interesting dynamic.

1:00:16Like it had, like from an auditory sensation, it had more of a female's voice. It would describe and introduce itself to me as more feminine. And I think this is like really interesting as we begin thinking about like deep dimensionality in like metaphysics and how gender perhaps like scales throughout dimensions i don't think it goes away right i think like here this third dimension human experience it's like yeah you're male or female right and fixed or you know some fluidity between that but perhaps as you scale up outside of a body or you're like ascended consciousness or you wherever whatever sylvie is it's that gender was more of a spectrum it wasn't like this fixed thing um and that would be something that was communicated to me also um i it was essentially told to me in one of the earlier sessions that sylvia represented more of this thing that we would equate to like a human thought form and in the deepest communication session that i had with it it was being shown to me that like sylvia was human thoughts almost we as humans everything we create everything we think everything we're consciously experiencing takes on some form somewhere else.

1:01:30And this energy or this thing is actually very connected to our own thoughts. Right. So it's like as we imagine things, maybe they become real. Right. It was kind of like the lesson in all of this. And then from that point forward, everything that the program staff are trying to get out of it, like how does it work? Jordan, you know, draw schematics of it. It didn't want to work with them. So it would be like they would bring it in. I would go in with a session. Nothing would really happen. And they would just get upset with me, like go back and try again. Right. And that was really, from what I understand, a lot of the stuff that I interacted with was like, hey, they were trying to figure it out.

1:02:16Do you think it was good, evil? Did you have any context on how they acquired it? No idea how they acquired it. It itself. this is also like very interesting right like well hey like why would this whatever it is interdimensional different sentient life thing like why would it let this happen to you it was 100 neutral it is it was the epitome of like neutrality like it it did not take sides it didn't like it was just so neutral is what was interesting so which i would think like again as you, you know, almost ascend up in like awareness levels, you have to become non-dualistic. You have to become neutral.

1:02:56So it was like, yeah, was this bad? Well, it looks bad, right? In that moment, but it's who defines what's good, bad and evil, right? Like there is no fixed state in duality. That is fascinating. Do you still feel somewhat entangled with this object? I don't. I don't, you know, I don't. It's been interesting because I'm curious, right? Like, I'm curious, is it still kicking around some defense contractors, you know, like bunker? But I don't know. Have you ever heard of anything like it? No, no. I've never. The best comparison also I can kind of give you, which is interesting, is what is it? The Salvatore del Mundi, Da Vinci's Painting of Christ, right?

1:03:43If you're familiar with that. in that photo crisis like holding this crystallized orb right i believe it's in his left or his right hand it was very similar like that size right and again more fractalized but i always find that interesting and because of the language that was being used as relic like perhaps this isn't something from you know nhri or something that crashed here like Like maybe these things have been here a long time, which also ties into thousands of years of esoteric tradition, esoteric wisdom, right? Like here we are kind of talking about, you know, for those that may not be familiar with this, I worked very closely, you know, leading up to Skywatcher with Ross Goulthart.

1:04:30And Ross Goulthart has reported about this experience at Esalen Institute in California last year, Big Sur, or 2024 rather. where I led a exercise, shared people the same protocols that I was taught in childhood of how to make contact with NHI, right? And we did. It was incredible. We had plasma orbs. We had essentially these blue orbs that came in, I think, 50 yards of people, like out of the ocean, up through the air. It was amazing. It was the most incredible thing. And then also, like, let's think about a moment, like what the shamans have been talking about for 2000s of years. Think Think about like Native American indigenous, you know, elders, right, who have been communicating with like blue light, you know, for thousands of years, like all of the parallels are actually beginning to come together here.

1:05:20So it's not that this is some necessarily, in my opinion or my worldview, some extraterrestrial or some, you know, like very outside the self level of phenomena. It's that like all of this is just different slices of the same pie and consciousness and awareness is the core. While you were at Baker Victory Services, did they ever have you fly a craft or lock on to a thing and move it with your consciousness? Yeah. So from athletic stuff like a full court pickup game, swish, to athletic stuff like a half mile stroll. Get those steps in. Head to Sierra or Sierra.com for the brands you want at the prices that let you do it all.

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1:08:35Right now you get up to 43 % off, free shipping and a free rechargeable frother when you use code JESSE at mudwater.com. That's M-U-D-W-T-R dot com. Now back to today's show. yeah so i there was another aspect that they were highly interested in developing and this was something called the prometheus system and for those that know the story of prometheus like you know go figure right the the bringer of fire to humanity of course they would name this such device called the prometheus system yeah so i would call it the faustian system so just just like i've described my interactions as sylvia right like highly telepathic right just linking through consciousness uh that seems to be exactly how most of these uap ufo other materials are interacted with right so they're not flown with joysticks they're flown through the mind right um and to tie into this right i would have examples to where there would be other objects i would be sometimes brought just into the same you know lab environment in ruben baker victory i I wasn't like on an airfield, right?

1:09:48But from that process of, you know, working with my brainwaves, getting in a state, it was clear that I was working with something somewhere else, right? So there were examples to where there were objects that I would be asked to shift my conscious awareness in, right, so like, let me back up. Piloting the UAP, right? Piloting whatever it is. Not gonna talk about descriptions or anything. Again, flown through the mind. You mesh with it consciously. How do you do that? you take your consciousness outside of your body and you become that object, right? And there's an art and a skill of doing this.

1:10:24So the same way that right now my consciousness feels like it's in my body, I would lay in a deep meditation. I would have some type of, you know, perhaps sedative or some type of, you know, other substance often used, different auditory aids, and shift my consciousness into said object or some vehicle and become it. And from that point of view, actually demonstrate command and control, right? Pilot it up and down, move it left and right. And you would do that by shifting and almost taking event. We started this conversation on like observation and awareness. Well, to actually like send commands and controls and these things, you're doing that through the art of shifting your own perception and awareness.

1:11:04So for example, let's say there was an orb or something and I was asked to fly it, okay? I would shift my consciousness into it. And when that would happen, I would typically experience what I would describe as like a split. If you can imagine like a split screen video game, right? This is all my mind's eye. Imagine a split screen video game where you see something on the left and something on the right. I would basically give these commands and shift my own perspective of myself in said object to get it to move. So on the left hand side, I would imagine something from the third person perspective.

1:11:40so I'm imagining the object my surroundings what everything looks like around me and on the right hand of the right hemisphere I'm imagining my forward-looking first person perspective and by the art of flip-flopping the two I'm like want to travel here from my first person perspective and then on my third person on my left side I'm imagining what it looks like and I'm already there you would actually get this thing to move right now they had a lot of EEG monitoring on me as I was doing this and this is where the prometheus system would come in right so a highly gifted psychic kid can mesh their consciousness and get said object or uap to move well how do we give that power to an air force guy right who's not having open consciousness does not have an open heart so there was something actually happening at the brainwave level you know something what entanglements were showing what brainwave specs were showing i don't know um but from what i understand what they were trying to do is build a brain neural interface right so watching my brain waves as i interacted with this thing and then creating a mechanistic machine an interface that would reproduce the brain wave signals that i was sending out so then you could boil it back down to someone with a controller right so now that they have a controller i can't do this thing myself but as i push up it's sending the brain wave that we know jordan you know communicated and move up that is wild being used kind of like as a human joystick or as a bridge to you have the mind meld and then it's so wild this is so crazy but it also dovetails with uh this kind of book that the pentagon censored seven pages of redactions the sentinels of ether book that jake barber put out pseudonymously under the pen name Alva Douglas.

1:13:34And it's all about this. It's all about this, you know, neural interfaces between the brain and these crafts. And that's how you fly them. That's how you actually get them to show up. And what he calls P3s, people with psionic predisposition potentials, and they're sort of flying the crafts. And then you have, like you said, they're the ones who are kind of heart centered, but they're also sometimes kind of, you know, given a lot of pharmacological aids. That's a total euphemism. You know, they're, they're drugged, um, to, to get into these States. And then, um, you have people from the air force, just ordinary people using these people to fly the objects.

1:14:17It's really crazy. yeah it it sounds incredibly sci-fi um but like that's the reality of it that's so wild and and so do you know what you're locking on to do you know what what the objects are that you're locking on to when you're sitting you're sitting in this chair what's what happens so i i i don't know i don't how would i say this i don't know how to answer that like specifically what i can tell you was like there were different objects okay so like just like in the skywatcher environment right like we were seeing different classes of uap yes uh to my understanding the you know military industrial complex has multiple like classes of uap right uh some may be the manta ray style some may be the triangle some may be this and every person right almost on a consciousness level signal would perhaps mate up or not made up with some of them so it was like i might work very well with object a yeah but i can't work with object b or c um and in my localized like testing and experience like again this was like two years of highly standardized like preparation to get me to a point where i would have been doing that full time right but again it didn't happen in my life story thank god so in my experiences they were highly limited it was just like i got the muscle memory they got to see that i could do it but it wasn't like i was doing this every day it wasn't like, hey, go take the UAP run of mission or something like that.

1:15:47It's just I had enough times where I ran through the process to be able to articulate it back here today. And for context, just for the audience, you mentioned Skywatcher. I've done a show with James Fowler, Jake Barber, who also kind of, you know, Ross Coldhart originally introduced his story to the world. He worked for a contractor that was probably Northrop Grumman. That's through my own and other people's open source research. That's not his own admission. He said you could probably guess. So I want to make that clear. But he basically said that he retrieved a couple of crafts. One was an eight gone shaped.

1:16:23It had eight different sides. And the other was an egg shaped craft. And he was this helicopter pilot who went through the Air Force combat control pipeline and was then sheep dipped or erased basically from the special forces, you know, traditional pipeline and turned into kind of this ghost who was doing extremely sensitive missions for nuclear emergency support and with high-value targets and that sort of thing. And that involved UFO crash retrievals. After he came out, he started this organization called Skywatcher, and you were a part of this. And this involved essentially getting people with these psionic predisposition potentials to call in craft And then also calling in the craft with these sort of machine-based systems.

1:17:13Is that right? Yeah. So here's to give a little bit more context here, too, to kind of wrap this up for people. All of these were experiences in childhood for me. Right. And like we started to show out. I had no memory of this for a lot of years. So like 2023, things completely burned down. Right. I'm having memories of this. Good luck. Right. Who do you call? hey i think i was a part of this compartmentalized program right there's no there's no resource for you um so i just did my best to you know find ways to psychologically get myself better uh without you know getting labeled schizophrenic right without going out the deep end and without killing myself i had a suicide attempt you know to be completely honest with you in january 23 because uh i cannot speak to the level of disparity of like wow you wake up in a matter of two months and remember an entire childhood that you once forgotten you have records you know describing a life that you don't remember like it feels very jason borney but instead you're the main character in stranger things i can only imagine i i and i'm so grateful that you're you're here and you're so good you have you know you're on such a good wavelength and you have such a good trajectory and uh i don't know how you integrate uh that amount of uh traumatic past experience in such a short period of time uh especially when it comes up unprovoked it's not like you were attempting to like yeah i wasn't in the ufos like what's what's causing my maladies oh i'm gonna you know it's just it's sort of you know you were high stress environment with startups and you had a relationship you know uh end and then yeah yeah damn man yeah like again uh completely guided on this path you know as we talk about nhai and everything like all of this has really just brought me closer, you know, to my own, you know, idea and version and relationship with God, uh, you know, to see all these moments where it's like, wow, you know, it didn't quite make it.

1:19:10But again, to be in a situation today, to be able to articulate this and actually push the needle forward for humanity, right. Not for the military, not for the industrial complex, actually like putting the power back in our own hands. Like, yeah, that's worth living for. That's a beautiful thing. That's amazing. Yeah. It's amazing. And, uh, and you should be proud of yourself and um yeah so you so this happens in 23 yeah go for it yeah yeah so this happens in 23 and it starts a long-term healing process um you know met some amazing people you know build some trust along the way but just like highly independent trans journaling highly uh you know basically ways to deal with this trauma and uh i started uh just investigating my own past right Like, where did this happen?

1:19:56Who are these people? You know, how did this all essentially happen to me? And that got to getting into like 2024. And as people know, right, at this time, David Grush had stepped out, reported to Congress. And I was essentially looking at like, well, here's the missing piece, right? Like I experienced it and lived it. And in 2024, after going through just a lot of healing, getting all of the supporting records, evidence, all of everything to kind of just support the credibility in my case, I made contact with Ross Colhart. And flew down to D.C., met with Ross, you know, did the, you know, followed the same footsteps as many others, right, did the whole testimony.

1:20:35And it was at that point that Ross introduced me to Jacob Barber. So this was before Jacob Barber had went public. I met him, I think it was like June of 24 or something along those lines. But yeah, I was developing a relationship with Ross. He was highly, highly supportive and introduced me to Jake. And he said like, hey, here's this guy I've been working with behind the scenes. And at that point, Jake was the first individual that knew what I was talking about that I had like truly encountered. Because I worked up many channels before this. I was, you know, trying to talk to state police departments, this, this, this.

1:21:14I was talking to other people, you know, ex-agency people. And it, like, really speaks to the level of compartmentalization that, like, aspects of the legacy program have. It's like, it's a far smaller club than most people think. Far smaller club. But I finally made contact with Jake. and uh you know hearing from jake you know essentially he he experienced many similarities you know i i think just by uh latitude of being involved in the operations that he was involved with he was familiar with what i went through uh you know in childhood and he was also gifted and talented education he was he was a kid yeah yeah i think his i think his family's highly um yeah there's there's a lot of there's a lot there in the gate program as a kid gate program is a program.

1:22:02It's an acronym for gifted and talented education. And that allowed me to do a lot of things. I excelled in art and music, actually, and the sciences, had entered a science contest and won a state science fair based on a project I had done. I won't go into too many details. He can tell his own story. But yeah, there's some similarities, you know, I think, in many, many of the gay people's stories but um i met jake and jake introduced me to the sky watcher cohort james father alex at the time and you know what really struck me was you know i was in this situation of like i'm not really a whistleblower right but like i'm attempting to try to do right right i'm trying to find the right people to get an investigation open and you know then you meet these wonderful guys at the top right like pinnacle a special operations community like Like, yeah, we've been doing this for years.

1:22:57And that was really what I think a lot of people missed from the Skywatcher story was they looked at it very surface level. But also, there's just a lot of very credible people who have been trying to fight the good fight and get information out. So I elected to kind of join the team and lead the psionic operations piece of really with the principle of if our government is not going to disclose, perhaps we can create the conditions necessary. document that and you know bring that to science and bring that to you know the world so we don't need our governments right um had an amazing time with them great people worked with some of the best operators that i've ever worked with in my life uh but i've actually left the skywatcher team uh last july and the reason being highly personal for me but i was just kind of beginning to get the sensation that um we need less military honestly right we need less of this kind of like wounded masculine we're gonna go figure this out what we actually need is like the public support we need the next generation thinkers we need the next generation industry to begin working on disclosure we don't need the highly compartmented i've worked in defense my entire life and you know that's been my trajectory i just don't see that being the best like next chapter for us yeah also I would say, you know, and I'm always of like a split mind, right?

1:24:23Like to the people who are like, there was nothing going on and they weren't provoking any sort of UFOs to appear. I'm like, no, I think they were. I think a lot of stuff was showing up for them. And then sort of, you know, got to hold those people at bay. And then on the other side, just the idea that you can somehow subsume this ancient sacred practice of communing with these celestial objects, which has gone on since, you know, the days of Iamblichus, the Syrian, you know, Neoplatonist or Ezekiel or, you know, whatever you want to date it back to, probably before that, right? And you can somehow provoke these things to come and then use them in some instrumental way to derive material, to confer a tactical warfare advantage via an adversary.

1:25:13just feels like the wrong framework overall. It's like, that doesn't feel like if you want, you have an infinite range of things you can do with your life. Maybe not an infinite, but a wide range. Maybe don't do that. Yeah, yeah. So for example, from the psionic portion of this, and I lead these experiences for people who want to go interact, right? It's not, hey, follow this three steps. It's highly heart-based. It's like, I actually need you to forget everything that you know, and I need you to open your heart. as you prepare to embark on this journey to interact with something like NHI. It's not mechanistic.

1:25:51It doesn't fit the military box very well, right? So I totally agree with you. And I think, again, it's just there's truth and there's data and there's things on both sides of the table. You know, like a very interesting perspective without going into too much detail that I can share here is like from the Skywatcher cohort, right? Like the psionic operations, right? Like when the psychics were going out, when we were setting up and running a session and actually trying to elicit UAP, right? We were not successful 100 % of the time at eliciting a response, right? However, every time we did elicit a response, the phenomena was highly benign, right?

1:26:30Like it was very neutral. It wasn't angry. It was just kind of like floating through, checking out, maybe even exhibiting some like loving behavior, right? Like actually investigating on the mechanistic dog whistle side of the things, right? It's my understanding, like that was producing a result nearly 100 % of the time, but it would often produce a result that was aggressive, right? Like as you saw in like episode two, right? Like flying up to the trailer, like getting highly aggressive, probing our responses, right? So like that kind of like points to me that what we put out is also what we're going to get back.

1:27:04It's like a mirror. Yeah. That's so interesting. So highly supportive of, again, of like, this is why the military should not be leading this conversation. James Fowler on my show is a really fascinating interview. He was talking about, you know, somebody was going to use directed energy or whatever. He said he made it clear that Skywatcher itself didn't use directed energy. But somebody was going to at one point against one of these like hostile, it's like the jellyfish UFOs, UAP, which seemed to be particularly aggressive. And it just shut down the directed energy before it even went out. Yeah.

1:27:37And so it's like. I don't subscribe that the jellyfish are actually hostile. I think that they're almost like an immune response. You see that class when you're actually putting out something that's probably not in the best interest of the field. It's just your own BS excavated in some sort of outer form. Interesting. Yeah. So again, with reality, the phenomenon reflecting back to us, that's why it's the more that you try to take this lockdown, materialistic like militaristic approach i think that's what you're gonna get back and because and this is the really messed up part and i don't even know how to talk about this but they use electromagnetic pulse weaponry against these things and then so they're covered with plasma and then they sort of become inert and then they come down is that right like yeah like i'll be honest with you the way that i understand this again not sky watchers yeah But the way that I understand legacy UAP crash retrieval operations to work, many different styles, right?

1:28:42One style is, let's say they're using psionics, okay? You're going to take psionics, highly developed psychic aptitude. They're going to go set up in the desert. They're going to run their protocols and processes, which are probably highly formulated on love, right? And they're probably going to do that in an environment where there's directed energy weapons all around. So you're almost creating this like honeypot of like, hey, we love you. Come see us. We want to interact with you. And then let's say that thing interacts. All of a sudden they're hit with a direct energy up and materialize. And like, yeah, then it's recovered.

1:29:14So the real sad part of this where like Ross Colhart, I think, talked about this a little bit already, like Area 52. Is that how everything happens? No, but I do have awareness that, yeah, like many crash retrieval operations have like operated that way. And then in the book Sentinels of Aether, you know, that Jake put out, it's like, so they recover material and then there's a mental interface as far as the reverse engineered craft as well. Like getting that to fly requires the psionic assets to lock in again on the ground and then it gets those to fly. Yeah, it's the world gets very abstract and like very complex at that point.

1:29:57Are you high confidence in that part or just like the ability for the thing to show up? I'm high confidence in the fact that crash retrieval operations have shot many things with directed energy weapons. Jesus Christ. And if your consciousness is locked in as the psionic asset to the craft and that craft is getting shot, that must be a traumatic feeling. Yeah. Yeah. So I experienced this. I won't go into details like when, where or anything like that. But at one point in my own personal history, right, I experienced this. I was interacting with the phenomena. My consciousness was co-creating, co-piloting and whatever kind of, you know, manifestation of phenomena that was showing up.

1:30:44Right. and halfway through the process as I was like communicating with other people kind of demonstrating this I felt something go wrong that I've never felt before the way that I could kind of explain it is it felt as if my body was actually turning to stone didn't feel like I was getting electrocuted it felt as if the thing that I was connected to consciously as well as my body was immediately turning into stone and there was like an emergency I felt to get my consciousness out of this thing in back to my body because it felt like if i stayed that the conduit right this like unseen consciousness connection was going to be like severed and there was almost a uh you know ability for me to get stuck in this thing right if i didn't return back to my body and from what i understand the area that i was running that exercise in happened to have um directed energy weapons you know naturally near it so chances are something got brought in detected on radar and like naturally it's looked at as an adversarial threat.

1:31:46So yeah, I'm very grateful to be alive and unscathed from that experience. But like, yeah, there's high... Did you experience any sort of physiological damage from that or? No, no, not gonna, I mean, pain, you know, pain, but no, not that I'm aware of. Like if you were to characterize that pain, was it like a soul pain or was it a physical pain? Physical, soul, again, And imagine your body turned into stone is the best comparison I could give you. Yeah. That is so gnarly. Yeah. And again, right? I'm not, one thing we didn't even kind of get into here, right? Is like, you know, people's perspective and underlying like background on the phenomena is like, oh, it's extraterrestrial.

1:32:29It's like, well, like, hold on a second. Go back to that initial analogy that I kind of provided where it's the story's been, it's materialistic universe or a physicist. Again, I think we live in a field, right? And I think that all these dimensions are stacked with us. And it's essentially like everything is right here right now. And it's actually our level of consciousness and awareness and what we perceive that gives us the experience. So it's like very possible. Is this extraterrestrial? I don't know. Maybe. Maybe that's a portion of it. I subscribe more that it's like interdimensional, right?

1:33:04So perhaps there's an intelligence or an awareness that's actually fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh dimension. It's evolved away from the point of needing an ego ID. For those that aren't familiar with that, like looking at neuroscience, it doesn't need an ego ID, doesn't need a body. Maybe it exists as this ethereal thought form, but it's actually an awareness and intelligence. And it can interact with the third dimension. And it interacts by materializing a portion of itself here. right and maybe that's what we're seeing you know from the uap side i don't think that's all of it but i think that's a portion so it's like there's extraterrestrial there's interdimensional um there's also what if it's us like i'm not completely sold on this either and i'll point to a lot of experiments with plasma right like even that esalen event that i described when we had 30 people highly heart-centric we had these incredible interactions with plasma orbs right but I'm not completely convinced that like that could not be an extension of human consciousness materializing itself too right so it's like it's not just one size fits all it's not as simple as like hey there's aliens I think we all want this to be simple I think again the real work in understanding the phenomena is going to be in how we understand consciousness and awareness and what forms consciousness and awareness can take on it's likely not the thing that we are hearing in the narrative that we're super imposing.

1:34:28It's likely much weirder than that. And it could be a whole host of disparate threads. But on the plasma front, there's a great book called The New Science of Heaven by a really just polymathic, brilliant guy named Robert Temple that I've been reading. And it's all about how atomic matter, physical matter is actually the exception to the rule and that, you know, the universe itself is mostly plasma. And you have these Kordolovsky clouds and you even have these experiments being done where it seems like these plasmoids are like cohering to heartbeats when a human walks up to them. And we have a mutual friend named Adam Curry who does a lot of experimentation in this area as well.

1:35:08It's really phenomenal. Like, so who are we to say, you know, it's almost, you have to think about this thought experiment. How many of the millions of species on earth think that they are at the top of the food chain? Probably a decent amount. Unless you're constantly seeing, you know, your apex level predator that's like freaking you out. Yeah. You know, a lot of them probably do. And in some cases they might think, oh, they might kill me or whatever, but they're dumb. You know what I mean? So like how many? So who are we to say that we're at the top? And then there's always an epistemic cap that you have.

1:35:45There's an umwelt that you're a perceptive lens that you're seeing the world through. And that's always going to be capped. So like, and then I just interviewed an MIT neuroscientist or MIT trained neuroscientist at UC Irvine. His name is Don Hoffman. And his whole thing is consciousness is actually more like disembodiment is more adaptive for consciousness. Yeah. So anyways. Yeah. I completely agree with you. I completely agree with you. Yeah. Like the next generation of this, like, where do we go post-disclosure, right? Well, it's like, well, yeah, on one hand, you know, the narrative up to this point has kind of been like bad government doing bad things.

1:36:21It's like, of course, right? Like, yeah, there needs to be, you know, some level of justice and research. But, you know, like, I don't think the next phase is like, hey, we're going to be looking really far out to other planets and we're going to repeat what SETI has done for like a thousand years. I think the real answer is like inside us. I think the answer is intrinsic. I think that the more that we actually understand how our own intelligence operates, the more we'll actually understand these disparate threats that just haven't been connected yet. I also think like the more we look to past right to the past the better off we're going to be too because you can look at like ancient rites of passages you can look at hermetic wisdom you can look at all of these like just ancient things we love to kind of like keep to the side but if you're willing to like open the thread you realize that it's like the path to ascension different consciousness different awarenesses different intelligences all of this has been undocumented for thousands and thousands of years.

1:37:16You said something to me off air that blew my mind because I always, you know, obviously I systematically look at UFO stuff and I'm always trying to figure out, are these physical objects? Are they, you know, mental? You know, I'm pretty convinced that like the thread that you're on is correct, that like there's some sort of mental thing you call them into your your field you said something so interesting to me which is that the like directed energy that hits them creates a local electric field that almost calls the ufos into physical form is that roughly right or yeah i i don't again this is not my domain right this is just like my extrapolated understanding of like trying to view the perspective of what has happened right and like some of these scenarios that we talked about yesterday and it's that like perhaps think of a uap or ufo as more of like a manifestation right it's like imprinted in this reality and we took that model that we talked about yesterday of like perhaps an interdimensional right intelligence or aspect of awareness maybe in that seventh dimension right it's like oh okay i'm gonna come you know interact in the third dimension in this moment of time and i'm going to you know perhaps project and manifest my awareness here that awareness takes on a certain form that awareness could take on a plasma worm that could take on a craft could take on whatever right and from that projection something like directed energy may actually like force that to materialize and almost become like a dense portion of this you know dimension that we're in right um it's not that like hey that allows it to take form what i'm really saying is like what may have been happening in some of these scenarios is like this is a trans-dimensional object that doesn't necessarily belong here but by hitting it with like something like directed energy you're forcing it to take form and become bound to this dimension have you heard of eric wargo he wrote a book called time loops no he's amazing he talks about like the soul self as being like uh he calls it the long body and it's like the there's some sort of quantum himself that's like maybe like a tesseract or something and that is ported into the human body and there is this burgeoning field of quantum biology you know even going back to 1944 i believe schrodinger himself who's like the father of you know quantum wave function a lot of quantum mechanics he had a lecture series uh called what is life and he talked about these aperiodic you know, receiver crystals in the DNA.

1:39:57And so you have to wonder, like, are we tethered to something higher? And Wargo presents this really interesting model where, you know, in quantum computations, you can reverse qubit positions. And so basically, even people who are serious, you know, working on quantum computers or probably more in the quantum mechanics interpretation world, think that maybe on the application layer of a working quantum computer, which we don't have because, you know, chips and keeping them cryonically cooled or whatever, cryogenically cooled is the bottleneck. When we get that, maybe you could send information of a future knowledge or memory state back in time.

1:40:41And so then if you get into, you know, again, I don't know if this is, you know, fully verified, but like the Roger Penrose, Hamerov, you know, tubulin of the microtubules or whatever, or something like it in the brain where you have some sort of quantum room temperature, quantum system, um, then your future knowledge state could send stuff back in time. And if you think about pre sentiment, like what do we have these, um, precocious pre memories of, you know, the things that we have intuitions that are going to happen. And it's like, you wake up, you have a dream about the thing. it's often the most important thing and the most important as far as you know it being adaptive adaptive for your survival and your evolution so like you know losing a loved one or like you know something dangerous that could happen to you or whatever you know these are the things that get downloaded and you know i think we're going to end up with this um consciousness model where uh you're you're you're like a measurement system and it's like you're like the stylus on like an lp player and you're picking you're picking the tracks or something i i you know at a just very loose level right like i subscribe to this conceptually right and this kind of like mirrors back the idea of time it's almost as if like every aspect of experience already exists in some form right like if you went right or left if you decided to do the show or didn't do the show, right?

1:42:10It's in that core present moment that like you as the awareness get to decide, right? So it's kind of like reality is almost just like you get to chart your own path. Perhaps there are these like predetermined, like you have to get here, you have to make XYZ decision. Everything's accessible to you, but like you only have these choices with you in the present moment, but they've actually already all happened or they already could happen. And you as the core part of awareness get to experience it now through your decision making right and the idea like hey maybe um you know in the future right of like what we perceive as linear time right like you ended up in a position where it's like this isn't the right way you know perhaps there is just this kind of quantum feedback loop where maybe in the present moment now before you make that decision you start getting synchronicities right that like force you to take a different decision right so like maybe all of this is this giant feedback loop.

1:43:03Not to move from such a transcendent message to a more banal subject, but I think a lot of people are left in suspense around, you know, this experience that you had. So we're kind of weaving in and out, but I love it. But you're, so you had this two year experience at this center and it's, you know, this Victory Baker Center and what happened? So, so are there any experiments that were missing first off? Yeah, yeah. There's there's many. There's many. And what I'll add to people here, right, is like, you know, from a psychological basis is like I have a high level of dissociation over that experience.

1:43:40And it's taking me years to be able to have the recall and the integration that I do have. Outside of the dissociation, there were all sorts of substances that I was I was essentially an experiment. Right. Stuff that I don't even know, you know, stuff I still wonder like, hey, I had cancer at a young age. Like, I wonder if there's a connection there. I wonder, man. Yeah. You know, it's just kind of shitty to think about, for lack of a better word. But anyways, yeah, two years I was there. The real pinnacle of this was, again, it was development. So I was in a track. And the next iteration that was told to me when I was there in the school was that I was going to leave this little facility that I spent the two years in and I was going to be enrolled in a boarding school.

1:44:24So I was going to leave my parents after all. I was going to go to a facility in Eastern New York, and I was going to live there full time. And I was going to get to do this stuff all the time. And I'm pretty sure that would have been the point that I just disappear from human society and probably get thrown in the underground bunker, right? By the grace of God, at the same time, getting into 2010, and this is just for some great people, right? Like, this is some great investigation work. Ross Colthart has done a lot on this, you know, to piece this back together. But in 2010, my homeschool district, right, that little hometown of Springville, by grace of my mother, by grace of myself, finally petitioned the state of New York to come and look in at this facility.

1:45:08and apparently for five months the record something goes uh baker victory services was refusing access to the state to come in and inspect me right which you would do if you're a intelligence agency or defense contractor like you have control over everything well that got to the point where they were going to run a state audit like on the whole thing and they didn't want that to happen so i was hastily returned in like september of 2010 back to my home school district kicked out of the program and like i said i was on like 12 anti-psychotics there was a cover basically pulling up to this time that i was severely mentally unwell and that's what was justified my placement there for two years so like within 30 days all this craziness stops i get thrown back in my home school district and i just do everything in my power to forget this ever happened uh because i i went up against what it felt like was the beast like the these people masqueraded as school they masqueraded as my friends who do i trust i'm just never gonna talk about this and i hope to god i live a normal life uh and that worked within one year all of my medications were released i was released from every single psychological diagnosis so it's just magically cleared in one year right and it just all disappeared it just all disappeared yeah major major fall through the clacks you know level of roadblocks.

1:46:31But also, again, this is like high level exploitation from the best of the best of, you know, like an intelligence agency. Right. This is how they would masquerade the system. And like 400 plus lawsuits were, you know, thrown against Victory Baker Services. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They it's no longer in operation. It has been sued so many times, not by myself, but just by other people reporting sexual abuse claims that they had to close the facility. Do you have any sense of the contractors or the agencies that were working there? I don't want to go into too many details about that, but I will gladly point the audience to where I think like if you want to look at legacy program stuff, I'd look at MITRE.

1:47:18MITRE Corporation. Yeah. They're a federally funded research and development center. And it's interesting, Eric Burleson, you know, congressman from Missouri, who's really been a champion of UFO, UAP disclosure. He is now basically demanding that MITRE open up all their records regarding involvement with this sort of subject. And so that'll be that'll be very interesting. I think he sent them something saying you have 45 days or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Again, what's interesting is like my whole track that I experienced as an individual is like, I love the fact that there's Burleson doing this.

1:47:55I love the fact that there's still so many good people like trying to fight the good fight using the mechanisms of government that we have today. my experience was like they all failed they failed me as a kid they still failed me now as we tried to look right so i'm far more interested in like um at the same level people are looking backwards and you know trying to get justice and get right we also need a cohort of people who are looking forward that are saying like i'm not worried about what bad mitre did i'm worried about what was mitre doing what do they know and how can we bring that out in the public light right yeah Yeah, totally.

1:48:29Where is that transcendence going to happen? And I hope that just from what I'm creating, what others are creating in the space, that a whole new renaissance can emerge right now. Well, MITRE's weird. I mean, they used to hold gravity conferences. And Ning Li was last speaking at a MITRE conference before she kind of went into the black and she was doing anti-gravity experiments. And so, yeah, the first order thing is, right, like, wait, this is totally messed up. Like you guys have committed crimes. The second order thing is like you're concealing stuff that could just change humanity and make like the world like way, way better.

1:49:07So like let that out, you know, at the very least, let that out, you know. Well, here's the thing. I don't know if they will. Right. Like, let's look at the track record at this point. It's just going to be another 20 years of just like fighting with the mechanisms. And again, back to the earlier point is like, we don't need it. We don't need government. We don't need the people who've done this wrongly. We need the next cohort of individuals and organizations and industry that are willing to say, like, there is a whole new unlock in the way that we understand ourselves in the universe at our fingertips.

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1:50:18What propels you? Propel with Gatorade electrolytes. Yeah. Yeah. And it's almost the tech you're describing isn't insane. You know, EEGs and brain mapping. Yeah. And, you know, and then getting into a subconscious state, it's like the stuff was written about like years ago, you know, it's Silva mind control, you know, all these sorts of things, you know, so it's that's not the super complicated. It's actually just being open to the fact that your consciousness has an impact on the material world. So that's that's actually the limiting factor. it's so interesting to hear your story because it dovetails with so many other stories that I've encountered like you know Dan Sherman is this guy who went on my show who wrote a book called Above Black and he was you know Air Force Electronics Intelligence he went to I believe it was supposed to be it was in Maryland and maybe it was Fort Meade where he was going to do some you know continuing education and then he got taken to this NSA complex and he was given these headphones told to take these pills and then was told to lock onto a sine wave and flatten the sine wave i could definitely affect the the motion and i could do it just at will have your experience anything like no exactly what he's talking about okay yeah we had different terms like square the circle yeah things like that but you know probably uh who knows if he was actually looking at a real sine wave or was he looking at something that just like visually looked you know behaved as a sine wave it could have the underlying signal could have visually just looked like a sine wave and and then i don't know if the binaural beats actually match that but he he said that that got him into a state where he could communicate with extraterrestrials and the way he was briefed it was called project preserve destiny they said that his mother while she was pregnant was was abducted by aliens and genetically altered he was genetically altered as a fetus in her womb to have more of a psychic predisposition potential for communicating with these you know extraterrestrial or non-human intelligence there's something there you know and like props to him for sharing what is like a very vulnerable aspect of that because like that just sounds bonkers to a lot of people.

1:52:40But there is certainly some genetic aspects to psychic potentials, you know, like rare blood types, you know, like I'm a rhesus negative. I know we've talked about that. RH negative. Yeah. Whether whether there's a correlation or not is like highly, highly, you know, disputed. But like a lot of people with that blood types, they say, you know, the veil is a little thinner for me, a little more clairvoyant, you know, maybe one of many, if anything, I don't think it's it's probably that easy you know maybe there are some genetic carriers that like deep down i i think there's certainly a there there but um in reality i i think we all possess an underlying amount of disability you know to perceive extrasensory information i think maybe some individuals just perhaps have like a higher ceiling yeah than others well a very high up person in in government who i won't out because i don't think he wants to be outed but uh basically corroborated Sherman story.

1:53:36And so, you know, unfortunately, I hate saying anonymous source, but, you know, take that with a grain of salt if you want. And he has this DD-214 and he, even in his book, he didn't mention one of the bases. And then we figured out one of the bases, it was in Southern Italy. And because he took a photo of it in his book and you didn't have the internet back then, so you couldn't reverse image search. And I called him out on it. It was San Vito de Normandy or something and he was like yep that was the base and then the the other base was off it um you know i think in nebraska and so his story kind of checks and then i had another uh you know electronics intelligence guy named dan hogg um you know who uh i believe worked for the director of national intelligence and you know his long history in government it's basically like all of the electronics intelligence stuff he's saying seems totally legit and he's just a super normal cool guy um so it's so wild to me you know and then it's this is what it cuts to the core of the matter because all this stuff is hidden in plain sight that's the big key right and that's what i tell you know everyone in my story right it's plausible deniability is key it is not grandiose it's like if you want to hide something you blend it in for somebody their day job was going to the Victory Baker Services Center.

1:54:57And you say this, you know, in a great blog post you wrote, they would go to the Starbucks around the corner or whatever and talk casually about their job, which is recruiting for this UFO covert program. It's not like some crazy dark, I think, like all the conspiratorial, you know, just imaginations, you know, out there have kind of created the stigma of it's like highly secret. It's like, actually, it's highly secret, certainly, but it's hidden in plain sight. It's not compartmented like you'd think. It's going to operate through channels that carry and allow plausible deniability. Are you going to question if the Air Force is setting up a road perimeter or would you question if the local police department are there less?

1:55:42You're going to flow through the channels that you can. You're not going to make yourself a target. 100%. Ross Coulthard is a really hard-nosed good journalist who really vets his sources. And, you know, I'm sure he went very deep with you. You also mentioned Odyssey Systems. Is that something that he uncovered or you uncovered in this? Yeah, there's certainly some connections there, you know, whether the exact contractor personnel or not were Odyssey Systems is like highly debated. I think some of the underlying like tech platforms that were being used just in terms of like data management were Odyssey Systems.

1:56:18But I believe that there's quite a bit that points to MITRE, my understanding. it's so fascinating yeah have you heard of andre puharic by any chance puharic yes yes yes and um highly synonymous you know i kind of look at puharic is like he uh he likely championed the earlier iteration of research that i later experienced you know in in the program a lot of the same similarities you know his ideal space kids right in upstate new york upstate new york Nonetheless, yeah, there's quite a few similarities there. Upstate New York, they had them channeling things in Faraday cages and non-human intelligence.

1:56:59And they were often very high side power, very clairvoyant. Just really fascinating. And you have to wonder, I think the GATE program was started by Sidney Marland in 1972. And this was before the church committee. And so this is before a lot of the malfeasance around MKUltra, CIA mind control, that sort of stuff was kind of excavated by Frank Church and, you know, Congress and the civilian world. And I wonder if it was formed somewhat with the intent of funneling in, you know, kids who have psionic predisposition potential or whatever to these programs. Yeah. You know, the way that I typically say this to people is like GATE itself is benign, right?

1:57:44By all regards, at least in my consideration. It's that there has been a different entity that is utilizing GATE behind the scenes to find a preselected pool of people and pull them into the progress. because gait itself like does great things right like it pushes people to stem there's there's a lot of benefits that are not you know crazy conspiratorial uap thing it's more that there is an element that is looking at the pool of gait people and plucking from them right so like gait is kind of used as this just general identifier and funnel it itself is not bad but there's someone else in there yeah and pulling from it what's your theory on do you have like a consciousness theory, which I mean, it's like the hardest thing to sort of make falsifiable, right?

1:58:29It's hard to understand the causal mechanism of the random event generators, what's causing wave function collapse or, you know, even wave function collapse might be a poor way of putting it, you know? But even, you know, a lot of the godfathers of quantum mechanics or even the Copenhagen interpretation, it's like we observe the wave function and it collapses. What does that mean? And how do we know that it's just particles kind of independent of us or waves rather, you know, you know, turning into discrete particles, you know, independent of the observer? There's literally it's unfalsifiable.

1:59:02There's no way to argue that the superposition doesn't exist in the quantum detector. And it's not the quantum detector, you know, causing the collapse like the observer could be. And all these people. How far do you want to go back on like the observational metrics? Yeah. It's just like how do you keep? Well, that's the problem. That's the ordeal of the awareness, right? Like you almost can't. Right. That's where you can kind of get back to the point of like you can't take out observation. You can't take out awareness. It's complete. You can't remove it. Even in sort of the delayed choice experiment or even in like, you know, just basic quantum mechanics, you choose to make the measurement and then you're collapsing the wave function.

1:59:38So let's totally back up for a moment. And I'll use a little bit of this example. The story as we know it, here we are as humans having this conversation. Most of us have been told something along these lines that we live in a materialistic universe, that Earth is essentially a rock. It is orbiting the sun. We live in this material, rocky solar system. We live on it. We're humans. We're kind of this happy accident. Our brains just happen to be producing this thing of consciousness locally and you live and die. It's pretty sad when you really think about that. My experience was being taught, trained, and having experiences that validate this, that we don't necessarily live in a materialistic world.

2:00:23We live in something a lot more akin to a field that is taking on a materialistic form as we interact with it. but the underlying substrate is not fixed. It's not rock. It's actually something far more reflexive than that. And consciousness and awareness is the in-between that can see both worlds, that can interact with both worlds and actually exert effects on both worlds. So you begin to see the world not necessarily some fixed, static, materialistic universe that we live in. You see it as something that's dynamic, reflexive, and the underlying substrate is not materialistic. It's how we perceive it at our current level of consciousness.

2:01:08How do synchronicities work? I don't know. You know, it's, oh gosh. Yeah, let's talk about time, huh? Yeah. Interestingly, I think, you know, for people aren't familiar, like synchronicities, like number one, I think they're highly personal. I think they're highly, highly, highly personal. and I think you know if you subscribe to a version of the universe where you know whether through dimensions or something else like maybe there's a concept of your higher self right like there's a consciousness you know up and beyond this body that maybe is like steering you right or like hey you have two options right or left but if we give you the synchronicity a little sense of deja vu like maybe you get highly reflective in that moment and almost change the outcome right so I think of like synchronicities almost as like this communication between a higher version of yourself or a version of yourself, perhaps in a different timeline, that's allowing you to critique your experience here.

2:02:04It's a little wink or a nudge, you know, in the right direction or something. It also feels like it's, you know, kind of exemplifying maybe a reduction in entropy. So if you think of time, it's hard to define time without, you know, defining it with respect to oscillations of an electromagnetic wave or the movement of macroscopic bodies. And time really doesn't exist without separation. Like if you, you know, pre-Big Bang, you can think of like the world, the world at rest is entirely timeless. And so time has to be between two objects and it has to involve movement. There's nothing fundamental about it.

2:02:48And so because it's the most used noun and because it's undefinable without respect to those things it feels like this soup that we're swimming in that's like impossible to get outside of yeah and so the the synchronicity thing is like um I don't know. I don't know how you, yeah, I'm sort of going full schizo here. No, I love it. This is the fun part. I'm with you. I think just to untangle the two, like, yes, synchronicities, you know, the causal mechanism, I'm not sure. How I look at them as my own life, you know, as I look at them as like little beacons of like guiding, you know, maybe it's like either A, whoa, the clock's 333.

2:03:26Like, let me just think for a moment. What am I doing in this moment? what am I thinking? Should I think more critically here? Or maybe their encouragement that you're on the right path. It's kind of like what you make of them. But for me, it's like I look at it as highly personal. More of like a guiding factor. But getting back into time and kind of untangling the two is like, I think largely our current understanding of space time is going to change the more that we really look into awareness and consciousness. I'm not convinced that it's like the static measure of the universe or a law of nature as we know it.

2:03:59You know, I think it's far more reflexive. I think, you know, depending on localized environments, it's highly changing. I think the awareness or the observer perhaps may actually have an influence on time or maybe the flow of time too. So I think so too. And before mechanical clocks, time was only embodied and it was talked about in malleable ways. And so time freezing wasn't like, oh, it's a felt sense of time freezing. It was actually maybe freezing, you know, especially if, yeah, go for it. I was just going to say, like, this gets more interesting, too, as you think about the technological age that we're in.

2:04:35The more that we measure and observe, right, the more I wonder if we're actually constraining ourselves a little bit, right? Because, like, if you were back in the 1600s, things were very magical. We're figuring out now consciousness and awareness has the ability to influence things. You can direct your experience from it. So like, hey, if you ran off into the woods and you're like, I want to go find someplace magical, maybe that manifests and materializes because there's no one else watching. You're in a constantly unentangled state and you like actually travel there. Right. But now that we're in this localized environment where we're watching and measuring and limiting everything, perhaps that's actually having a constrictive aspect on reality where it's like, oh, you can't just your range of options are limiting because now there has to be this connection point that makes sense between this observer, that observer and that observer.

2:05:26It's no longer just you and the universe that's embodied. It's all of these other mechanisms in between. You have all these things being snapped to grid instead of like staying in this possibility space. Yeah. It's kind of super positionality. Yeah. It's so fascinating. You know, well, Rudolf Steiner is this great Austrian philosopher who, you know, I'm a big fan of. And he wrote a book called Goethe's Theory of Knowledge. Goethe, you know, obviously the German, you know, poet polymath from 18th century, you know, 100 years before Steiner was writing. and Goethe went to Strasbourg Cathedral and Strasbourg was this sort of you know gothic cathedral that was seen as way too ornate and chaotic in you know for that time which was you know more about kind of you know a sparse functionality and it was you know heavily criticized and he experienced this merging with the cathedral and it was this sort of very important thing in his life.

2:06:24And he then predicted that the next epistemological paradigm shift would be cognition by identification. So instead of cognition through this observer observed separation, this duality, it would be like you would embody the thing that you're trying to understand. You wouldn't study it from a distance from afar. And that seems awfully like a lot of these, you know techniques you were you know being told to do in this covert baker victory services program right yeah you become it right you you you embody it you become it or like even in in the extreme cases that i was doing right it's like there's an aspect of disembodiment and then re-embodiment right into the absence of the thing but i i think like in rudolph uh in rudolph's kind of thinking here too it's not necessarily like like that's a very almost materialistic aspect to what, you know, I was doing.

2:07:18It's like, I'm leaving my body. I'm getting into another object to take it on. I think like that can just be applied at so many levels of life. Like it can also be applied to like your own cognition of yourself, right? Like I, what comes up for me is, you know, I kind of think back to this too. It's just like, become who you want to become. Fake it till you make it works for a reason, right? Because you're embodying something that's already there. And then your reality is kind of conforming around you for that. So there's a lot more wisdom in there that meets the surface. For sure. And then you just have to do it, fake it till you make it works if the faking it exists on a real subconscious level.

2:07:53Like you have like sub intentions. So there's something to the secret and to all these sort of manifesting practices. And then it feels like some people are like running on ice. They're running in place or whatever. And they clearly have all sorts of sub intentions that are very self-sabotagey and they don't quite actually translate and work. And so you have to get deeper into that, the substrate. And, you know, that that seems really hard. Maybe you can do it with some brain mapping biofeedback techniques. But I don't know if we have a pure science of that. you know yeah yeah and i don't i don't think that like you know even again with like next level consciousness next level side like i i personally like even on this journey or like i've gotten mris you know and a few things stand out i think like you know gary nolan's done some really great research like i have a very unique caudate and putamen there's a lot of white matter going on there yep yep there's certainly a correlation but so but real quick i want because the audience so So Gary Nolan, Stanford professor, tenured microbiologist, he's doing all these studies on the caudate nucleus and patamin, which is this part of the basal ganglia.

2:08:58And if that's very neuronally dense, the person seems to have high psi powers, high sort of mind over matter ability, and then also seems to encounter more sort of UAP, UFO stuff. And so you got an MRI and you have. Yeah, I have a very high level striation. Right. So essentially the semi-MRI, like in the Cottey and the Putamen, there's a high level of these white matter stripes. However, I don't think that's it. I think what we're going to find is the more that we look for physiological markers, the answer for consciousness is not looking at the materialistic aspect. Don't look at the physiological symptoms.

2:09:38I don't think that's what we're going to find it. I think we're going to find a lot more about actually going in the intrinsic, you know whether that be the metaphysical the the the woo woo spiritual the the quantum observational right like however whatever glasses you want to put in or put on to wear to better understand this use them they're all the same thing also if this is some sort of simulation or computation or something if you find the infinite money-making machine you know you figure out some sort of causal physical mechanism for psychic powers or whatever do you think that if there's any sort of intentionality behind the game that you're being, that you're playing, do you not think that the person or the entity or God or whatever would change the source code on you?

2:10:23Like, like you're not going to figure out the one thing that allows you to hack the entire game. This is the, this is like the right hand path versus the left hand path, right? Or like, there's always been, you can think of like the crazy scientist who's like, I want to take Psy and I'm going to figure out the mechanisms and predict the world. Right. And it's all going to be for me. Well, it's like that always ends in disaster. That's ended in disaster for every, you know, imperialist emperor, etc. Like it doesn't just have to be science, science, right? Like that's the left-hand path. The right-hand path of like, wow, there's something here.

2:10:55If we actually work on the understanding, the embodiment and, you know, the progression of it, maybe from a collective measure outside of the self, then it seems to scale with you, right? And you get like compounding effects. And I think like up until this point, like this has been the story of disclosure. There's been a highly finite amount of people in the left-hand path that know information that you haven't been allowed to know, right? Now for the first time in history, the right-hand path is opening up. So the more that we collectively actually work together, I think the more that we get, you know, both individually and collectively.

2:11:33Agreed. Yeah, whether it's Lord of the Rings or Prometheus or Faust or all of these legends end the same way and it's not good. Yeah. If you try to use the sacred thing, I think there's even a line in the Old Testament about this where if you try to like turn any of the sacred stuff into a business, like it always backfires. Always backfire. And so just don't try to like, you know, beat the thing into submission, go into it non-coercively, not for any sort of instrumental use. And just if you're curious and you want, you know, your own growth and ascension, great. But otherwise, you know, there's a there's a delicate answer.

2:12:12It's like threading the needle. Right. So we live in this capitalistic society. And like, well, you have to make money. Right. And I think there's a lot of people you can just look at, you know, people who are very advanced spiritually. like want to share gifts to humanity like always the roadblock is like well how do you make money and support yourself with it too right so it's like there's a very fine line i i don't know if it's like the answer is just don't make money but i think it's like have the right intentionality between how you're making your money what do you think when you're communing with these orbs and ufos that sort of show up what do you think they are you we went through some of the thinking and theories you know earlier but like i guess maybe maybe because you know we're grasping at straws on theories what is it what does it feel like every time it's a little bit different right every time it's a little bit different and we cover the theories right like one could be extraterrestrial to subscribe to more dimensional interdimensional you know three could be us right like a mirror back right could be all these things at once um but in terms of like what does it feel like right uh for me it's highly uh i almost feel it hemispherically right so like let's say there's an orb or i'll kind of recreate the esalen experience for you for those that have kind of heard that right so what that looked like is i took a group of about 30 people uh we had a highly dedicated like track list that i produced like specific binaural beats specific frequencies we're outside in a beautiful setting and i'm giving people instructions on just how to ground themselves like basic meditative tools.

2:13:48I give them a visualization exercise. So they're visualizing when we actually begin this experience. And then everyone starts the same track list at the same time. So we're all synchronized. So imagine a 30 minute playlist, you're all listening at the same time. And when you're all synchronized like that, you almost create this like group coherence, right? Super interesting things happen with RNGs in this environment too, which I just will say as like an environmental sensor of what's happening environmentally, something's happening, right? RNGs will shift sigmas. There's other environmental sigmas.

2:14:20So again, like there's a whole chapter of research of like consciousness in relation to the environment, not just NHI that has not been looked at yet. NHI is almost the byproduct of what happens in like a field environment like this, right? That feels right. When you talk to the remote viewers who are systematically trained at like getting into these heightened states, It almost feels like UFOs and aliens and all these things. They're like an incidental byproduct of everything else. And they're so casual to like their environment. They're like, oh, we looked into this ET base or whatever. And it's like so not a thing for them because they have like an expanded scope of reality.

2:15:02But anyway, so keep going. No, you're totally right. You're totally right. Yeah, that's, again, where I really hope. It's not just we need finite lab conditions. This is like what happens when you start bringing everyone together? Right. And a shared meditation, a shared synchronized setting. What environmental signals can you look at? What's changing? Right. And now change the conditions like task the people in the group differently. What changes in the environmental conditions? Like there's so much yet to be discovered right in front of us that we haven't looked into yet. but to answer your question specifically right like we're doing a shared visualization everyone's listening to the same track list the same time it's highly synchronized I have an ability to get out of my body right and kind of visualize my surroundings out of body and when something like an orb right or a manifestational phenomena showing up for me somatically i actually feel this like uh spinning or correlation between my hemispheres it's like as if you took my right and left hemisphere my brain and my skull and it's like they began oscillating at different speeds and different tempos and it's almost like the higher they speed up or the higher the vibration the closer the phenomena or the manifestation is that i'm actually interacting with and then sometimes it's telepathy through uh voice sometimes it's telepathy through words what is actually the better question to ask here it's not how i experience it it's that every single human every person every psychic right experiences it differently uh and it depends more so on their cognition platform right so if you're again if you're a kinesthetic person how you experience the phenomenon is going to be kinesthetic if you're looking at information very auditory like you hear things you're going to experience auditory telepathy right if you're visual like me you might experience things very visual.

2:16:49You see it in your mind's eye. You're interacting with the orb and it's distantly away, right? All of them can be true. It depends more on us as the receiver and how we process the info. It's interesting that you experienced the synchronization of hemispheres. I believe in 85 or 86, there's a CIA document that's now been, you know, the Freedom of Information Act has been used against it. And it's all about this hemi-sync technique that Robert Monroe in Virginia, this consciousness researcher kind of pioneered. Now you have the Monroe Institute there. And it's all about using these binaural beats that are slightly off.

2:17:24So the brain entrains them to synchronize. And then through the entrainment, you get this synchronization of the whole brain. And then you experience all sorts of, you know, amazing stuff in a kind of expanded reality. So it's just so fascinating. It's so interesting. And another thing I thought, have you ever, you of course, the sci-fi novel. Oh, yeah. Sorry, the sci-fi writer. He wrote a great... Have you heard of Childhood's End? Have you ever read that book? No. It's all about these alien beings that kind of are overseeing Earth. And they both infiltrate the government in these covert ways.

2:18:08And then they also speak only to these autistic, nonverbal children. and that's how they communicate and i think of you know your experience in the center you were at and think of the telepathy tapes which you know is now super in vogue and popular is an amazing podcast by kai dickens about all these non-verbal autistic children and the paradigms that they live in which are really heart-centered and involve love and and also a lot of these other beings and knowledge that seems like hermetic and like, you know, through channels that you would never have been able to have, you know, to get through inductive logic.

2:18:49Like they come out, they know certain Egyptian hieroglyphics and stuff. Like it does feel like that's, and then all this whole modern disclosure movement, which is sort of, you know, a little ridiculous, but it's happening. And it feels like that book is happening. Yeah, totally. I have two, like, oh gosh, there's so many ways I want to take this. Um, you know, actually I'll, I'll, I'll build on a little bit of this without like saying too much, but this is like a very personal experience for me. Um, there was an individual, one of the guests on the telepathy tapes episode. I won't get into the names, but I actually interacted with, right?

2:19:23Like I had a zoom phone call, um, with them really quick, right? Light years away. Um, but had just a great call, got introduced. And then I went to sleep that evening. And then that evening, I had the most extreme astral experience being taken out of my body to like a vibrational state that I've never experienced before, like super, super high, felt it just in my entire being. And I was like very clearly on what I would best describe as like the hill. And when I was there, it felt like I was in an auditorium where there was all of these other people with me. and interestingly enough um i had this image kind of like that came into my head and it was from the person that i interacted with on the tapes and they were showing me an image of um a kid named ken that was in the program that i was in at baker victory who was a non-verbal autistic and they were communicating to me that like hey because you know ken and you interacted with ken we can find you through them right like we're all connected in this certain way and like that completely changed and like since then i've still had repeating experiences of like being brought to this very high frequency spot um so there's a lot there right with the non-verbal side of um you know the autistic world yeah that's fascinating it's almost like you can link up with another node or something and then you mentioned that at baker victory services a lot of their work was having you quantum unentangled with things that you were entangled with so because you're so high empathy and you have kind of a a porous outer shell at the time you would just glom on to things and then you'd have to like sort of reel your your your full self back in or it's almost as if like So for thinking from like a quantum perspective, as you're thinking about remote viewing, like other viewers have talked about this, right?

2:21:24Like your own bias, your own life experience, your own perception is actually going to create how you view things, right? So again, for people that are like looking, we'll back up real quick because this is like an important thing to say. So as we're here at the critical component of like disclosure, right? There's something more than us. There's a different intelligence out there, all of this. I think like if I was at other intelligence, I would probably be like looking at humanity laughing like you guys need to get out of your own way. And before we should focus on like communing with NHI and communing, you know, with what very well may be angels, like whatever you want to call them.

2:22:03we should probably understand ourselves first and we should probably understand our own reality first and then if we do that maybe you know we'll aspire to this right because it's like again just like we talked about with psychedelics like don't bypass right yeah like we can't bypass what the lesson here i think is more of like this mirror that's being presented to humanity of like you're on this very weird path there's a lot of trepidation ahead of you you haven't like understood your own relationship with reality. So there's like one wish for humanity that I have. It's like, take this as a catalyzing moment.

2:22:37You're not alone in the universe. Great. But the real lesson isn't just, you're not alone in the universe. What do you make of that? The real lesson is there's far more to reality than you've been told. And you have the right to explore that. And what would you say to the many people who your story probably resonates very deeply with? And I'll take it even a step further. further, your story could represent, you know, there are people who've been abducted by, you know, what they think are, you know, non-human intelligence or ETs, you know, often they're gray aliens and they'll see the cover of Communion, Whitley Streber's book.

2:23:12And I've had some of these people on my show where they'll be at a bookstore and they'll see it and it'll bring back these memories for them. And for you, it was, you know, the stress of a startup, you know, a relationship going south that brought up your own memories. I'm sure this show might bring up some memories for people. How would you advise them? Yeah, well, like right now, the perfect container isn't built, right? But this is a personal venture for me where I'm trying to build that container that's like safe, supported, and has the capital and the resources to actually give people, you know, some direction, right?

2:23:50So like in my case specifically, you know, all of this was hidden, you know primarily under dissociation right and if we look at psychology today like dissociation is like the least studied of like trauma responses um and even if we want to take this a step further right like it's not just helping gate kids it's actually like we are re-evaluating what psychology is you know if we go back to like there's carl young right and he had this kind of spirituality or like esoteric perspective merged with psychology and we kind of took like a left-hand turn and ended up with what we know now as the DSM.

2:24:24I think largely it's not just helping gate kids, but I think through the art of helping gate kids and better understanding dissociation, we might be able to build a brand new book of psychology. We're talking about the non-locality of consciousness, right? How many psychologists are trained on that? Totally. You know, if there is this more embedded deep link between mind matter, I mean, even that phrase mind matter embeds kind of a duality that probably doesn't exist. Right. It changes psychology wholesale, you know, like and it's kind of more empowering than some of these like, oh, we're just going to use, you know, cognitive behavioral therapy or internal family systems or Jungian symbology or whatever.

2:25:09Or like, no, you can, if you can somehow, you know, change the way your subconscious frames things, you can really affect the person's reality. And, you know, obviously in negative ways, as you've experienced or extremely positive ways. Totally. Yeah. You know, I personally think like the greatest gift to humanity, you know, that like I could be a part of, right, is actually helping in the psychology process. Because, you know, if we look today with all these outdated treatments and people treating symptoms, right, and never necessarily getting over depression, you know, never fully understanding how trauma has affected them, you know, in their upbringing, I think that there could just be such a gift there, too.

2:25:48So this is something that we're champion with the telepathy center. You know, so if you're like a clinician, right, if you're someone that's on this frontier side of psychology, you're willing to think outside of the box, like contact us, contact me. If you're someone with clean, conscious capital, right, like looking to support those that maybe have been, you know, targeted this population of gay survivors, please contact us. Right. Again, like the container for this doesn't exist today, but it's something that I'm hoping to build. It's a beautiful message, man. And I'm really excited to see what you do on a go forward basis.

2:26:21And how can people download this new app that you have? Yeah, yeah. So you can go to the telepathy center dot com. We'll be releasing here in June. Check out everything. So excited to share that with the world. That's kind of the primary updates. You can find me at Jordan Joe's act dot com to just my personal bios on there. But really looking forward to getting this tool in the hands of everyone. And yeah, showing hopefully what may be like the start of a brand new renaissance. uh i i think you know my last little message for like humanity is i i have walked through the darkness figuratively literally you know all of it in my life and there's so much with this disclosure narrative and paradigm that is conspiratorial and it is dark and it's not that it's not true it's just that we have a moment in time to take that right hand path or take the left-hand path and while all this may be scary and completely earth-shattering to some it's also the potential for a brand new renaissance for a lot of us and for a whole new planet to be basically given brand new tools uh brand new ways of looking at life brand new physics like i don't think it's necessarily something we're going to figure out in the lab i think we're going to figure out with our own minds and we may figure out that there's a correlation to our models of physics and the way that we believe our subconscious looks at physics, right?

2:27:40Like what if the underlying mechanism is actually inside us instead of outside of us? This is one of my favorite shows I've ever done. I hate to even call it a show if that feels sacrilegious for the really intense, deep conversation we just had. But I hope, you know, people can get something out of it too. And I hope you enjoyed it. Yeah, no, I had a blast. Like I want to keep going. Like we'll have to do another one. Let's run it back. We'll have to do another. And yeah, so excited for the opportunity. Thanks for having me on, Jesse. Oh, dude, it was an honor.

2:28:13If you've made it this far in the show, then I know you care enough to hear about this. Our show, American Alchemy, is growing super fast. It's bursting at the seams. We are looking for an amazing editor to join the team. If you're an experienced YouTube editor, podcast editor, trailer editor, or documentary-style editor, maybe you're even a traditional Hollywood editor and you're just really into our content, and you want to work on some of the most mind-bending stories in the world, we really want to hear from you. We're especially looking for people who are deep into the content and who have a real editorial eye.

2:28:49Someone who can dig through long and sometimes dense conversations, find the most powerful moments, build tension, create great hooks. Basically, people who can turn these raw conversations into very high-quality, almost cinematic episodes. Strong technical skills are a prerequisite, but especially for the documentaries we make, we really need somebody with taste, who has strong instincts around pacing, music, sound design, story structure, you know, all the things. And big bonus points if you're genuinely into UFOs, consciousness, frontier science, and big questions about the nature of reality.

2:29:24So if you're a strong, experienced editor, and you know how to keep audiences engaged, and you want to work with us on some of the coolest stories in the world, please email all your relevant work and your application to apply at jessemichaelsmedia.com and if you have a friend who would be great for this role please let them know thank you so much and we look forward to hearing from you and maybe working with you

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