Top Navy Admiral: "The Ocean is FULL OF UFOs!"

26:38champion for this. I'm going to at least tell him and let me make sure he knows. So I think, you know, when you put those two together and then, then the third line of, okay, UAPs in the ocean that you asked me about, I've had several submarine officers come to me, two and one enlisted. And they all reported to me these instances where they were all of a sudden encountering an object under a water that was closing rapidly, more rapid than normal other and adversary submarines you know had signatures of a torpedo closing rapidly constant bearing decreasing range three people all had this and the subs did an emergency deep maneuver where they just all of a sudden okay we this is what you train to do if an adversary torpedo is inbound and and then in each case whatever the object was this slowed and it went behind them uh to kind of get out of there and it's called going into your baffles where you can't Your sonar can't see it.

27:33So they actually purposely evaded and then left the area. And torpedoes can't do that. No, they have a very strict profile. It's basically close as rapidly as you can to eliminate the target. So that's not, yeah, it's not, we don't have technology that does that. And so, and all three of those folks, and then I even had another guy tell me he had a similar encounter. where he was an acoustic specialist, retired as a captain, was on one of the Navy's acoustic intelligence ships off Japan. In two cases, they also observed these anomalous objects. And all of them called me because they, after my testimony to say, hey, I want you to know that there's some there there.

28:17And these are very credible people. That's amazing. Yeah. I mean, you have Alexander Wiggins we can talk about because he's sort of on record. He's an example of... Well, I'm proud of that, actually, because he came out because of me. He saw that I testified. He looked me up and sent me a note, and we got on the phone and talked, and I encouraged him to engage the Hill, and now you see he testified. And what was his case exactly? Well, I'm pretty sure... Forgive me if I screw this up, but I think he was on the bridge of the Omaha when that one object, the spherical object, goes into the water off Southern California in 2019.

28:56A self-luminous tic-tac-shaped object emerged from the ocean before linking up with three other similar objects. The four then disappeared simultaneously with a high synchronized near instantaneous acceleration. And then he shared with me a video of when he was on the USS Jackson, same region. And, and they were seeing multiple erratic moving UAP at night. Uh, and, I mean, and he told me this, he said, we see these things so often out there that we're desensitized to it. I believe that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they call it the silent service for a reason, you know? And so I think a lot of people see a lot of things and then they, they sort of keep, keep quiet.

29:37Well, so that's just, Alejandro wasn't, uh, he was not a submariner or Alex, Yeah. But he was on these surface ships. But yeah, the submarine service is called the Suns. They call that the Suns. That's right. That's right. Okay, got it. But ultimately, so that, I think it's a good thing to point out that Alex, you know, he testified eventually because he was encouraged by people like me. And this is good. So now he testifies and others say that those are going to come forward. And you see, this is a movement. It's not slowing down. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, hopefully it kind of snowballs and we get some official statements made.

30:14And, you know, it's occurring. We kind of cross the Rubicon. In 2013, I believe, in Aguadilla, you have this in Puerto Rico, you have this, you know, three minute video of a transmedium object. An object that seems to descend into the Atlantic Ocean and then come out as well. Yeah. And of course, all the debunkers have tried to do just that on the video. Ultimately, just like all the Pursue files, yeah, we need more data. We need other sensors to corroborate that. But it appears to be another example of transmedium UAP encounter. And so, yeah, and I think that's what we want to do in the UAP Science Advisory Council that I'm on now that reports to the ODNI.

30:55is we want to analyze these videos and data more to get a better grip on their actual velocities and movements and trajectories and understand better how they do what they do, what they are, and then ultimately what their intention is. One of my favorite cases is Nova Scotia 1960, because often with a lot of these, you know, unidentified submersible objects, it's just the object. In this case, it involves occupants, possible pilots, maybe non-human intelligence sort of driving or steering. And then I think repairing the object. That's right. That's right. Yeah. So this is in a book by an author named Chris Stiles, who went and researched these Royal Canadian Navy divers.

31:40And it was all in the aftermath of an exercise, a mind sweeping exercise called Sweep Clear Five. And that's the title of the book. And he investigates all this and evidently there were sightings of UAP going into the water at night. And then these divers claimed that they saw UFO occupants outside these two saucers on the seabed and that they even took video of it. And so interesting, I'm going to make a couple of plugs. There's this one researcher in Canada who contacted me recently and he's investigating that. He's doing FOIAs or the equivalent in Canada to try to get that video, basically.

32:23His name is Brian Fitzpatrick. And I'm going to do a quick, we can go down this rabbit hole later. But the reason he first started investigating cattle mutilations. And let's talk about that later, but he has a book called The Operator. Okay. And it's an astonishing book. I think it's the biggest reveal about cattle mutilations out there. And so he's a real diligent researcher. He used to be, he was a 20-year homicide cop. And so he knows the, he understands the forensics of these kind of things. But ultimately, Brian is researching this whole topic of the Nova Scotia UAPs. And again, you read the book and there seems to be evidence, not hard evidence, but eyewitness testimony of these UAP in the water.

33:10And like you said, occupants, it's amazing. You think about a movie like The Abyss, you know? Yeah, it's the abyss in reality, right? Yeah, I wonder how much, and I believe it was like, they didn't use non-human intelligence, but it was very similar. Yeah, what was the name of it? Non-terrestrial intelligences. That was it. And it was these kind of like luminous objects in the deep sea, and they would sort of, and you got to wonder, you know, with people like Spielberg and James Cameron, like, are they getting little, you know, whispers in their ear from, you know, real sources? Right, right. And in fact, there's a Reddit thread out there, and I don't know what to make of it, but let's just start, everything's starting to add up.

33:52And I think this guy's name is Condor Man. Okay. And he went to, he made a big statement. And this is Reddit, okay? I'm not, I'm beyond of what I know, actually. Sure, sure, sure. But as we start lining things, ducks in a row, okay? Another duck in a row is this guy who's made statements that those five to seven places of the world's oceans where we see UAP coming in and out of the water, that there are locations where they reside in NHIs and they manufacture their own UAPs every time they come out. Everyone's a new one. And he had some other wild statements. I'm not going to go into them here, but every now and then I'm finding more and more about the ocean connection.

34:31This was, I believe, a 4chan whistleblower. Oh, was it? Yeah, he claimed to work on the program. That was it. He said that basically he implied that every time you mention Lazar, you get in trouble because he was this sort of, you know, leaker of, you know, real stuff from the program and that these objects are made in mobile construction units. Yeah, that's it. So you have things going around under the ocean and then they're made for purpose. So they're made to spec. Yeah, that's it. And different shapes and forms in order to carry different payloads possibly. And it's just, I mean, I know you, for clarity, you're just relaying what you saw.

35:08I can't. You're not endorsing it. I have no knowledge of that. But I think it's fascinating. That is so interesting. Well, yeah. And as I said, I only start going down this now because of that email I mentioned, which I know my source is credible. And so I'll definitely swear to that. But then as you traject that forward. Yeah. Who knows? Anyways. Well, there have to be, you know. So, yeah, because I think the Bursette thing where he's walking around, he's getting interviewed by some TMZ person and he goes, yeah, there are five, you know, spots where these things seem to show up more than more than not.

35:41That gets translated on Twitter to like alien bases. Yeah. So but I do think they're hot spots. And we mentioned, you know, off the coast of Japan, I just recently interviewed the defense minister there at former defense minister and Hamada San. Yeah, I might have been at, I know that I gave a virtual presentation to this UAP caucus in the parliament or diet in Japan a year or two ago. And then just recently I was interviewed in a Japanese media outlet called The Liberty. Oh, cool. And you know now the prime minister of office is setting up a UAP investigation unit so that Japan's, yeah, there's a lot of changes recently.

36:21Oh, yeah. They're very kind of forward-looking on the whole topic. How'd that go? How'd that go? Oh, it was amazing. It was really cool. It was such an honor to be there and such a beautiful experience. Were you in Japan? I was in Japan. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that country. It's amazing. I lived there. Did you? Not much. I was on a ship that was at sea a lot, but we were stationed in Japan. Oh, wow. Okinawa? No, Yokosuka. Oh, Yokosuka. Okay, cool. Amazing. Love that. The people love that place. It's got an incredible history when it comes to UFOs. There's a mountain called Mount Sengon Mori, and it's in the Fukushima Prefecture.

36:55And Fukushima, of course, is famous for its 2011 nuclear disaster. But UFOs were reported to show up around the nuclear disaster. I know. I've seen the video. Yeah. And there's a mountain at the top of the mountain. There's a museum dedicated to UFOs in Sengon Mori. Yeah. No. Did you go there? I went. Oh, my gosh. That's great. Really? There's also a guy, and I'll shut up about Japan at some point. But there's a guy, Takano Jowson. He's a NASA historian. And he has met Edward Teller. He's met Jesse Marcel Jr. He's interacted with Herman Oberth, you know, the father of German rocketry, like all these amazing kind of graybeards.

37:35And he has these NASA, you know, rocket boosters and capsules on loan from NASA for 100 years. And he has a museum dedicated to American space history and UFOs. And he claims to have a... Is it in Japan? He's in Japan. He claims to have a piece of the Roswell crash with him. Wow. And I don't know if it is. Did you look at it? I did. It was encased. And I just, you know, I was like, there's definitely a translation barrier. And I was asking about the extent of the testing. And to me, it's similar to what you read on Reddit. I just can't endorse the thing. But it was amazing. Yeah, that's really neat, Jesse.

38:11Wow. It was cool. But, okay, speaking of, you know, alien bases or hotspots, if you had to, you know, just pinpoint hotspots around the world, one might be the South China Sea. Are there, are there others that like, would you, if you had to, if you had to pick like five to seven top candidates, what would, what would they be for you as far as hotspots? I'm not super knowledgeable about this, but, um, there's one in the Atlantic. I'm almost certain the Bermuda triangle or what have you. And then, uh, and then Southern California, uh, seems to be The Catalina Channel seems to be a hot spot. That's just from my own, I would say, less than educated knowledge.

38:50I'm not a dedicated UAP researcher, but I'm starting to be one, if you will. What do you say? Well, yeah. I mean, Preston Dennett wrote a book called Undersea UFO Base. I read it. I read it. See, that's where, unfortunately, you get into total speculation. Again, not to hammer him. It's an informative book because all those eyewitness accounts are serious. These are people who saw things. But at the end of the book, I find some fault with what he did. He went and there's this whole line on social media somewhere about this feature off of SoCal called Sycamore Knoll. Yeah, Point Deum off the coast.

39:26Yeah, that's right. And he puts it in his book. And ultimately, that area has been so thoroughly researched. There was even a peer-reviewed marine geology publication on that. And it was surveyed extensively. And the geologists all come up with various theories about how it was formed. But when he speculates that's the undersea base, he's totally off the mark. Got it. It's been so thoroughly surveyed. It's just not. I mean, it was also sub-bottom profilers that go under the seafloor to look at the geologic structure. There was no alien base there. Yeah, because I occasionally surf at Point Doom.

40:02And I had some friends who I actually, I believe, a mutual friend, you know, Will O 'Brien at Ulysses. Yeah, that's right. So I was like, well, we got to get your rover and, you know, put it down there and let's see. And we did a little bit of preliminary research. And for the context for the audience, this is somebody with a startup who builds these amazing deep sea rovers. And we did the research and we're like, I don't think there's anything. It's not even worth the resources to like. Yeah, it wouldn't have been. Unfortunately, but still holding out hope maybe for Catalina. Well, hey, look at this.

40:31I have Wright. And so this is how common this is becoming. My middle daughter is at the Naval Academy. She's a midshipman. I'm very proud of her. Thank you. And she's studying oceanography just like her parents. And she swims on the swim team like her parents. And so it's fun to see. But her teammate, her teammate has a father who's just retired as an F-18 pilot, formerly F-14 pilot, so Navy captain. And they live in Pacific Palisades. And they've seen UAP over the channel, lidded in formation, several white lights, clearly operating under intelligent control. And it was funny because when we first met, he'd known that I speak up about this.

41:19And the family shared with me, oh, yeah, we see these things. Yeah, there are a lot of reports around Catalina. I'm a big fan of this sort of mid-century inventor named Thomas Townsend Brown, and he had a UFO experience on Catalina Island. What happened? He was being approached. This is, by the way, his daughter relaying this. He passed away in 1985. But he was being approached by this orb. Yes, and I know the exact spot it approached him. It actually approached him. And he said that he learned so much standing there with that ball of light. And he said he went to work immediately. And he worked.

42:00That was the beginning of his life's work. And I guess he then sort of approached the orb and they had this like almost like communion moment with this sort of glowing orb. And according to his daughter, that was when he downloaded his life's work. And he had a lab in Pasadena at the time. And he went back to the lab and he just, you know, really started working on this. He was actually became a Navy man after that. You know, this is interesting because now I'm on this UAP Science Advisory Council reporting to ODNI and we're starting to dig into all these Pursue files. And there's this one report that came out about these law enforcement agents that are at a national security site somewhere in the West.

42:44And they have all these interactions with orbs and one's even a mothership of orbs that launches other orbs from it. And this is something actually that Avi Loeb, our chair, wrote about in one of his Medium articles, because these are legitimate witnesses. And then John Kozlowski, for the record, stating that a large percent of these orbs just have no explanation. There's nothing that we have that we could, it's not weather, it's not some technology, it's not some laser effect. They're seriously just not sure what these are. So we're starting to look at ways to describe how do you produce these orbs?

43:25What are they? And we're starting to research these because they're seen everywhere all the time. And yeah, so that's a serious line of investigation. I'm going to go under this as a member of this council to go meet with two engineers off the coast. They've been researching off the coast of Long Island. Jerry and John Tedesco. Oh yeah, Tedesco brothers. Yeah, they have some serious data of orbs offshore, some going into the water. And so now this is a legitimate line of research for us. So I'm going to go up there. Actually, I'm not going to go there. We're going to go to Maine and that's just the location we're going to meet.

44:05I'm going to review their data and hopefully share that with the rest of the council and start doing a little more. I mean, the council has a number of different types of psychologists, engineers, physicists, oceanographers like me. So we're going to all go after this and see if we can improve our understanding of what these are, actually. That's amazing. Well, they were a big part of tracking the Jersey drone flap in 2024. Trump made a really interesting, you know, as Trump tends to do, kind of shoots from the hip. and after that Jersey drone flap, he was like, we know where they're coming from.

44:44They're coming from a garage. Look, our military knows where they took off from. If it's a garage, they can go right into that garage. They know where it came from and where it went. Something strange is going on. For some reason, they don't want to tell the people. And it seemed to be implying that, you know, he thinks that they're coming from underwater. And there were sightings, of course, around that time, off the coast where it seemed like these UAPs were emerging from the water. Yeah, I don't know. Actually, that's a big question mark for me, the Jersey drones. I don't know their nature.

45:18I have a good friend named Greg Scaduto, who now works with Ryan Graves at Americans for Safe Aerospace. And he wrote a terrific article. It got published in the Rolling Stone about the New Jersey drones. I encourage your listeners to check it out. But still, it's just still a real unknown there in terms of at multiple levels, local, state, even federal. Trump, yeah, he made the claim, but he didn't really back it up with any evidence or any further elaboration. So I'm not sure what to make of it. Yeah. You are looking for Atlantis, maybe? Yeah. We've talked a bit about longevity and life extension on this show, extending your telomeres, metabolic optimization, and the through line is always the same.

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48:05Right now you get up to 43 % off, free shipping and a free rechargeable frother when you use code JESSE at mudwater.com. That's M-U-D-W-T-R dot com. Now back to today's show. You are looking for Atlantis, maybe? Yeah. Okay. I'm on an NDA for this. I can't say a whole lot more, but I'm with a team of very esteemed archaeologists and geologists. We believe we found a region in the Atlantic that fits all the descriptions in Plato's dialogues where he talks about Atlantis at length with actual dimensions of the width of the canal system. and other features of it that I won't go into because I don't want the location revealed.

48:57But we believe we found an area, we have some proprietary bathymetry, and it's very high resolution. And the region that he points to, basically, there are a lot of features there that correspond to exactly how Plato described it. Wow. So just today I had the most amazing development. I can't say who, but a very, very well-funded researcher with a very high-end ship and a remotely operated vehicle wants to take the brief. He wants to hear the brief. Yeah. This happened today, and I'm thrilled because this guy could make this expedition happen this summer. That is so exciting. I know. I know. I mean, I'm praying because he's got a ship, and this ship does—he owns it.

49:48He can do whatever he wants with it. And if he really feels the need, we might be diving on that thing real soon. That's amazing, man. Well, if you need a water boy. Let me know. Right. Well, anyways, yeah, I'm in this. More to follow. Very, very cool. Can I speculate? And can you don't have to say anything as to where this thing might be? Well, let me just, I think this whole thing, topic of Atlantis is a lot like UAP where it's just sort of gotten very conflated with all these other theories and whatnot. And I think when you just walk it back to the timeframe he alludes to, it's not impossible at all.

50:28And we come up with the geologic theory to explain rapid geological subsidence over a period of just a few years rather than millennia that could cause a whole city to submerge, like an island, right? So there's all the physics and all the human history. We're not talking a million years ago or a billion. We're talking within the span of human civilization. Before Egypt, but— Yeah. Yeah. Well, pre the 90s, you know, if anyone were to say that the civilization was as old as Gebekli Tepe said it was, they'd think they were crazy. That's right. And so the history of archaeology is the history of things getting older.

51:10And it's like Moore's Law or something where you have a number of transistors on a chip. It's literally a law you could basically come up with because things that are lower in the sediment layer are also generally older. Yeah, that's a good point. And the archaeology itself as a field is only 200 years old with the discoveries of cities of Assyria and Babylonia 200 years ago. It's fascinating, huh? It is fascinating. And so I think the idea, not necessarily Atlantis is a placeholder term that comes from Solon relaying this myth to Plato. I think a lot of people discount that because it was told at this mythos festival of Timaeus and Crataeus.

51:50When in fact, you know, I think a lot of Plato's stuff was probably actually ontologically true and real. And a good example of something like this is Troy was supposedly fictional. And Heinrich von Schleiman, this kind of amateur German businessman, found it. Yeah. And I like that because exactly it's someone who's not mainstream in archaeology who any finest. In fact, here, the person who is leading this research effort, again, not going to name his name, but he he's a career emergency room MD. Whoa. He has nothing to do with archaeology, but it's a good story because it takes people who are outside the system to have a more practical view.

52:39And this occurs in all fields. So he, because he's an ER doc, a stressful job. And so he would, on weekends, just look up things that were interesting. And he kind of got down this Atlantis rabbit hole and started reading the original dialogues and doing over 10 years of time, compounding a great deal of open source geologic and archaeological information and then bringing on advisors. And so this is it. I'm really glad I'm a recent advisor. I came in because of my oceanography experience. and what I did so I set him up there's another researcher and because we want to keep this private I'm not going to name him who has been researching UAP and moon structures I won't name him now so he comes to me and we end up just sharing information and staying in touch because I like his approach this is really interesting research anybody who is approaching these fields with a real objective and bright mind.

53:40He's a physicist, for example. And, okay, I want to know you. He might have been on my show, but. Oh, actually, after, when all this comes out, I'll lecture him to you. He's a neat guy. Oh, cool. Yeah, he's one of the researching moon and Mars structures. He's not, it's not Max Diracshani. It is. Oh, okay, I was going to. Well, then that's fine. I don't mind having his name out there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's been on. And he's amazing. He's so hard-headed. Gosh, I know. He is. He's very deep, and I wouldn't want to debate him. Oh, my God. No, I'm not in his league. Same. Yeah, so it is Max. And, in fact, so Max came up with this algorithm that is searching for, I guess, terrain.

54:25It looks at any kind of 3D topographical data set, and the algorithm, and someone else developed it. So I don't want to, and I don't know who that is. I forgot his name, but, but so, so just a full disclosure there, but the algorithm can determine with, I think, a high probability what is natural and what is human made or, or artificial. And, and then you can, and so what I did is I said, this would be really good for our Atlantis region bathymetry. And so I, I connected Max and the, and this researcher and they got along and that's, And that connection eventually is leading us to potentially this very wealthy ocean researcher with a ship.

55:06So I find this, this is like a very broad philosophical pitch here. I never say no to anyone who reaches out to me. I don't not answer emails. Every now and then I get some really strange things. I don't answer those. But if there is a very legitimate, credible person who says, I'm very interested. I want to contribute. And sometimes I just got to say, thanks. I'll keep your name when I'm ready to, when there's something that comes that we can use you for. But it's just, to me, I don't like being rude. And I like, I know the opportunities arise when you build a network and maintain it. And that's exactly what happened with Max, okay?

55:46I'm busy with it. And it was, you know, every new person has more information. Sometimes it's hard to keep track of. But I knew Max had that real intellect. This is a guy worth knowing. And now he might make this whole Atlantis thing a victory. That's so exciting. Well, I really hope it happens. And yeah, he's the exactly the right mind to kind of help with, you know, efforts like this because he's very hardheaded and yeah, really kind of lucid as a thinker. Right. There's someone else in that category I want to bring up quickly. And I'm not sure where this will go, but I happen to also not say no to a person who reached out to me who was a writer.

56:23And his name is Richard Botelho. And he's got a book called The Full Extent. And he wrote a really thoughtful, long-form article called Human to Humanoid. And you can look up his website, Richard Botelho. interesting about him, besides just being a deep thinker on this topic, is you might know we've gotten a lot of traction in the media. And so, for example, I was on Brett Baer's show, Jake Tapper's show, Sean Ryan's show, yours now. And so Rick is the one who got me the Brett Baer interview. And he's the one, he's been my private kind of confidant in getting to Brett, which is big. Having that and is, I think, is really helping our movement.

57:14And he remains interested. So he not only did he interview me, he interviewed, I think, Carl Nell, David Grush, Jay Stratton. But basically, once Rick came to me, then I ended up vectoring Brett to all those folks and he got them all on. So that's been a big kick for us, getting the credibility established and mainstreaming this. So I want to give Rick a shout out too. It's one of these. Shout out Rick. They're out there. Yeah. Yeah. I'll say this and you should say nothing, but I think the Azores is interesting. The reason I say that is because I'm friends with Randall Carlson. Oh yeah. And he is, uh, probably as deep as anybody I know when it comes to Plato and, you know, the historical accuracy of like where Atlantis would actually be located.

57:59And so he puts it in the Azores. It's a very broad region. So at least, uh, you know, could, We could keep it vague. But, yeah, I think something might be interesting. Randall and is it Graham? Graham Hancock. Hancock, yeah. Exactly. I like these folks that are not. And they're pushing the boundary of science and history, as it should be in a legitimate way. So, yeah, we're learning more. And like you said, history, we're walking back history more and more. The ultra terrestrial hypothesis is so interesting. This idea that there was maybe a cataclysm. I mean, maybe something caused the ice age.

58:37And that's what those two guys think, is that maybe there was a comet airburst in the torrid meteor stream, which occurs twice a year, every year. and this occurred literally actually if you look at when you know the legend of atlantis was told it was like 600 bc and it was like 9 000 years earlier is when this occurred and that maps to meltwater pulse 1b which is a flood that probably got us out of the ice age so like a flood caused the ice age and a flood might have gotten us out of the ice age and both might have you know involved sort of cataclysmic shifts in the earth. And of course you'd end up with a lot of stuff really buried and all this stuff Graham is uncovering of like, you know, footprints in North America from 20 ,000 years ago and ancient archaeological structures that look, you know, really the same across disparate parts of the world.

59:31I think Atlantis is this, it's become this hokey, almost age of Aquarius hippie like placeholder that, you know, has a connotation as baggage. That's right. But the ideas of there being possibly an antediluvian advanced civilization, I think we have to be open-minded to that. Absolutely, yes. Yeah. Why not? Why not? In terms of our evolution of our intellect, there has to have been really rich civilizations in those time frames. Totally. Yeah. Have you heard of the Baltic Sea anomaly? I have, yes. So I went out there. You did? Yeah. Oh, that's right. I saw that. Yes, I saw I saw you on that. She was with Dennis Aspert.

1:00:11Yeah, he's a treasure hunter. I guess historically, there's like this mercenary, like trying to find like, you know, often it was like liquor and wine and these like, you know, shipwrecks and stuff. And in the middle of the Baltic Sea kind of smack dab between Sweden and Finland, he finds this thing that looks like the Millennium Falcon as far as the shape. and it seems like it's emitting all sorts of electromagnetic anomalies. You lost GPS? You were close to the object? To the object? Oh my God. We're right above the spot, right above the Baltic Sea anomaly. And they send rovers down there and the rovers go off and GPS failures occur all the time.

1:00:52It's actually very similar to Skinwalker Ranch in many ways. Oh, let's talk about that too. Well, I want to talk about both because the subplot to me of the show, Secrets of Skinwalker Ranch, and basically the Baltic Sea anomaly is that we've located UFOs, or at least UFOs in that they're unidentified and they have bizarre properties. I'm not saying they're flying objects. I'm not saying they were formerly flying. I'm just saying there's a lot of anomalies and there are sort of weird attributes to that. Right. And you're talking about the one in the mesa. The one in the mesa. Exactly. And it's like we've located them, but it's hard to actually extract them because it's like they have a life of their own.

1:01:33So I'd love to get more of a more robust oceanographic team out to the anomaly to research it. Yeah. Because Dennis doesn't have infinite resources. Sure. It's hard to go to sea and do research like you did. And so potentially like with Atlantis, if I can get one of these higher end, well-funded oceanographic researchers to explore that, I'd like to. So I'm looking for opportunities. But going back to the ranch, a recent development for me, and it's exciting and interesting, is that it was actually because Brandon Fugel, the owner, he and I had this common, I'll call it, difference of opinion with the former Arrow director, Sean Kirkpatrick.

1:02:19And that sort of united us in a way that we started communicating. And he invited my wife and I out to the ranch. By the way, I want to talk remote viewing because my wife has completed Paul Smith's courses. Wow. And we should go there. Yeah. Which is really neat. And so we communicated and he invited us out. So we went out and we had this great day together. And it was really something that the show doesn't necessarily highlight purposefully. But it is so beautiful out there. I love the West and it's just a great location. We didn't have anything anomalous occur, but we got the whole history and we learned their scientific method, which is terrific.

1:03:01Yeah, I'm fascinated by it. And I don't know, a lot of people say, oh, it's like the modern Oak Island or whatever. Oak Island's very different. They were looking for the Ark of the Covenant and the whole show is them not finding the Ark of the Covenant. Secrets of Skinwalker Ranch, they're finding interesting stuff on every show. So it's entirely different. It's not like there's this one binary event after all this buildup. It's like an accumulation of evidence. Yeah. And you have to appreciate, too, the history here. Recall that DIA funded a two-year or so effort to research the ranch. And this is the books that Jim Lekatzky and Colm Kelleher wrote with George Knapp.

1:03:42Then the follow-ons that Jim wrote, Future Visions and New Insights, I think they're called. But he documents fully the research done there, all the anomalies, many witnesses. This is a government-funded—I mean, actually, he likes to say, or maybe it's him or somebody, that that's basically disclosure right there, those books. Yeah. A funded effort. And it's transitioned now to the nature of the show right now on History Channel, but serious, real research that Travis is leading. Yeah, definitely. And a lot of those dirts that came out of that period— Exactly. ASAP and, you know, what Bigelow was doing.

1:04:19It was a lot of really impressive scientists who were kind of doing that research. These are serious people. Absolutely. And it's interesting to me that academia is so kind of, you know, dismissive of a lot of these things. Because... Academia. Actually, here's... So, I have a book, you know, out here. And it's called Holding Fast and Heavy Seas. Go buy it. Amazon. It's on Amazon. Barnes & Noble. My website, timgalladet.com. And it's about my leadership in the Navy and then at NOAA during Trump's first term. And, you know, ultimately, what it's about is that Trump is a very challenging executive to work for.

1:04:57But and even though we had I dealt with that, we were able to achieve this agency. I worked at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, NOAA, a lot of really significant environmental wins, wins for the ocean, for ocean technology, for weather. And it's just a story of how to prevail when it can be difficult. And just like right now, a lot of people have a hard time with many of things that Trump is doing, the Iran war, what have you. But there are things he's also doing that are very good. And there's his science advisor, Michael Krasios. I worked with him during the first term. And I think he's taken a good approach.

1:05:39Granted, a lot of funding cuts everybody has a problem with, but there's plenty of private sector research occurring right now. And that's really what he's working to embrace is all the advances in the private sector. And so my point is this, that a lot of the American scientific enterprise, mainstream science, has become, and Avi writes about this all the time, basically gun shy. They refuse to innovate and use frontier tech. They've sort of just gravitated towards the mean. And I think Avi and Michael Kratz, I think they're right. And this is what this UAP thinking is about, this embracing the potential for Atlantis to be and go search for it.

1:06:19It's just not being afraid, willing to think outside the box. And that's just in terms of the way you think. And so I think mainstream sciences are just because they won't look into UAP seriously. And so those are the things I'm trying to change. That's what my book's about is working to address things as you see them for the truth that they are. Yeah, I agree. I think the kind of Overton window, things just get very narrow at the end of a paradigm. And often things that are not taken seriously end up becoming the mainstream in the future. And if you can't point to anything that isn't received knowledge that you're not somewhat into or interested in or think might become received knowledge or mainstream in the future, then you're definitely on the wrong side of history.

1:07:11Right. You have to be kind of inherently. If you just look at the history of science and human knowledge, there's a decay rate on present knowledge and there's always new knowledge coming in. So I think being totally close minded to that is kind of dogmatic. And I agree with you. Good. Yeah, exactly right. Thank you. I appreciate you addressing that. The other thing I wonder is how much kind of, you know, signatures, whether it be radar, you know, actually move the needle. Like, I feel like we need the threshold for evidence because, you know, I just debated Michael Shermer, who's a fellow UAP advisory council member on the show.

1:07:46And it's like the threshold for evidence for a lot of, you know, people to believe that there's even a there there is really high. You need like, because I brought up like this Japan Airlines case in 1986, I believe. I know that. Yeah. Where it's like you have 45 minutes of publicly available radar data, physicists who reviewed it, like Kevin Knuth, who's also on the review panel. And he's saying that, you know, I think these show, you know, UFOs present and you have to have two objects and then you have a large, like almost aircraft carrier sized walnut shaped object following this thing. And then you have this, you know, what seems like a very above board pilot who I believe he was, you know, military before he became a commercial pilot for decades.

1:08:33And, you know, Japan, Japanese culture, it's like they're not histrionic or attention seeking at all. And so, you know, you have that and you have the Nimitz case where it's similar profile with David Fravor and you have Fleer alongside it. So like, say you get the radar for Nimitz, like, at what point do we just admit that there's a there there? I mean, then you get optical on top of that. Like, I'm still guessing some subset of the population, if we had optical radar and Fleer, you know, in a specific instance with a high credibility witness, they would still be holding out. Yeah, that seems to be.

1:09:10Well, remember, this whole stigmatization has been an 80-year campaign, and it's been very effective and well-funded. It started after the Robertson panel. So that's why it's so hard to break. It's not open yet, but it's becoming open. And I think I really think, well, there's two things. The more the public has to be accepting and that's occurring. And then I think it's important for authoritative sources to acknowledge this reality. And that might be what is occurring with our government right now. It's again, it's still it's a work in progress with the pursue files. Again, there's no metadata there, but there's a whole lot of UAP activity in those videos and reports.

1:09:53So I think that's what it's going to take. I think it's going to take our government because we do show leadership in many areas. We still do. Like I'm doing with the Science Advisory Council with ODNI, it's got to be the White House saying, OK, here's what we have. Well, speaking of kind of people who are more open-minded and adventurous, I think I read somewhere that you might be working with Victor Viscovo on the Atlantis front or? He's a good friend of mine. Yeah. Okay. So I met him through my work at NOAA. And so we signed an agreement together. We were at a Capitol Hill event and I introduced him and that's how we started our relationship.

1:10:37and the agreement we had was he had built this submersible that could go to the full ocean depth, deepest part of the ocean, the Challenger Deep in the Marianas Trench. And he bought a ship, a former Navy ship that became a Noah ship and now was his ship, called the Pressure Drop. And then his submersible is called the Limiting Factor. And he dived to five, in 2018 and 19, he dived to the five deepest trenches all around the world. No one had ever done it. And he called this the Five Deeps. and then he did the deepest one, Challenger Deep, 14 times or so. And so what we did at NOAA is we put a scientist on his ship to help him accurately map all those trenches because none of them had been mapped to modern standards and fully.

1:11:21So he could say, this is the deepest part of that trench and then go dive in it. Some of the trenches that he dived in, we weren't sure what was the deepest part. And so our scientist helped him with that. He shared his data with us because we're the curator of bathymetric data for the US EEZ. So we have this relationship now. And yeah, he got there because as a member of the Explorers Club, like me, he started out mountain climbing. And he climbed Kilimanjaro and he failed the first time. And that steeled his resolve and he succeeded the next time. And then he decided to climb all the highest peaks in the continents.

1:12:00He climbed the five and then he skied to the North Pole and the South Pole. So, yes. And so that's called the Explorer's Grand Slam. So he did all that. And he's been to space. Yep. With the origin. So there you go. Then he did this because that wasn't enough for him. He did all those five dives. And then he went into space. Yeah. That's nuts. So he's the most vertical human on the planet. Sounds like it. Sounds like the real life Dos Equis guy or something. That's interesting. man in the world. He is 100%. You know what? And what's cool is that, first of all, he's a very humble guy, was a Navy intelligence officer and retired as a commander.

1:12:40And so one of my favorite pictures in the book is the first person to dive into the Mariana's trench that challenged her deep part, 35 ,000 feet, so it was seven miles deep. It was a guy named Don Walsh with a Swiss oceanographer named Jean Picard in 1960 with a U.S. Navy bath escape, they called it. And I can't believe they made it. Just an unbelievable expedition. And no one did it after except for James Cameron once. And his submersible almost didn't make it. And so Victor followed them. But Victor did everything right. He engineered it perfectly. He even pressure tested it. and the only tank that can do a full ocean depth simulation, and it's in Russia.

1:13:29And so anyways, so Victor goes and does that, breaks Don Walsh's record. And then in 2022, maybe, there was a 90th birthday party for Don Walsh. And so Victor came, and I came to celebrate him. And so we got this picture together. Don Walsh on one side, retired Navy captain who had dived the deepest dive. until then the person who broke it, Victor Vescovo, retired Navy commander, and then me in the middle, retired Navy admiral. Uh, and we're holding at the Explorers Club, uh, a Navy flag that, that Victor signed and took with him and to that deepest dive in the Marianas Trench. So he, he actually flew it outside the pressure hall.

1:14:15So it got a little wet and has a little rust on it. But so I have this Navy flag. He gave it to me too. And he, It's hanging in my family room, and it's spinning to the deepest part of the ocean. That's special. Yeah, it's so cool. And that picture of all of us together of all Navy officers retired. Wow. That's incredible. I'm proud of that. Here I am, these two giants, and I just happen to be there along for the ride. Well, you're a giant, too. You have an amazing history. Not like those guys. I don't know. I think you're being humble. But Victor is interested. We gave him the presentation on Atlantis and he said, all right, I'm in.

1:14:52Wow. Yeah. And that's a great guy to be working with. He's fantastic. So one of my favorite things about him too is the Navy named a ship after him. No way. Yep. The surveillance ships that I mentioned, acoustic intelligence specialists, potentially identifying an anomalous object in the ocean. Those ships, there's a class of them, a new class that do have active and passive sonar and find enemy submarines. The new class is named after Don Walsh. And the first ship is the Don Walsh, and the second ship is the Victor Viscobo. Wow. And we had a big ship naming ceremony with the Secretary of the Navy at the Naval Academy last year.

1:15:31And Victor invited me. That's amazing. And I was even more proud. The night before, he had a small family get-together, a dinner, and he invited Karen and I. And my wife, Karen, being a Navy diver and oceanographer, it was a really special night. Wow. Wow. That's so cool. Do you ever look into the history of the Navy? Like, look at, I don't know. All the time. Yeah. I've studied the Navy's history ever since I was a midshipman. I love naval history. I'm, you know, way more kind of fair weather fan than you are, obviously, with your experience. But I look into certain people like, you know, Hyman Rickover and John Pena Craven.

1:16:09Oh, yeah. And I always wonder, you know, what they might have known about UFOs. Hyman Rickover is, you know, head of the nuclear Navy. That's right. Founder. Founder. Yeah. Do you think that. Yeah. Do you think those guys ever knew anything about UFOs at all? So probably. And here's something interesting. Just recently. And this this builds off research that Sam Gerbis, UAP Gerb. Have you had on your show? Yeah, he's been on the show. Yeah. Yeah. So he this is something he uncovered that I thought was remarkable. He found, I think it was him, found a video of former, I believe, Director of National Intelligence or Naval Intelligence, Bobby Ray Inman, Admiral.

1:16:56He mentioned it during, this is well after retirement at some event, he mentioned the National Underwater or Undersea Reconnaissance Office, NURO. And so he basically acknowledged it was a real thing. In all my years in the Navy as the head oceanographer and knowing, having access to undersea classified programs, I've never even heard of that organization. Really? No, I never. I didn't think it was real. Whoa. So obviously it is real and it is so classified. I didn't even get a reading. Whoa. You would think the head oceanographer that there'd be some, there's no boundary. There's a boundary there.

1:17:34And I didn't cross it. Well, you look up, so yeah, Neuro's National Underwater Reconnaissance Office. Yeah. You look it up and the Wikipedia is five lines long. And I mean, even the NRO, which I guess they call it the little brother to the NRO or the undersea brother. And the NRO was only, I think, made public in the 90s. So for 20, 30 years, I think it was totally off the bus. That's right. That's right. Right. So that, that, and I know, I know why, because at least that, again, undersea technology is, that's, can't be compromised because that's, will keep our shores safe, keep, give us an edge in any fight.

1:18:15And so, and it's interesting, for example, there's a book out there called Blind Man's Bluff. Great book. Oh, yeah. And that's a lot of the submarine community is not happy about that book being published. Really? Oh, yeah. It's all their trade secrets. But ultimately, so that's how tight that kind of a technology capability is. And if, as in our earlier discussion, there are undersea UAP, those would be the assets that would have observed them. Interesting. And so ultimately, then that means, yeah, there are Navy folks who, admirals in history who probably knew about this. But I don't know for sure.

1:18:58Because Bobby Randman, I believe, set up Nero, according to Gerb. And he then, I believe on a phone call with Bobby Oxler, this UFO researcher says, yeah, maybe UFOs might come out at some point. Kind of implying like he knows there's a there there. Do you anticipate that any of the recovered vehicles would ever become available for technological research? Again, I honestly don't know. It's a possibility. And so, yeah, who knows? So here's something interesting, too. I believe it's the Abyss. there's a thread there somewhere in the movie about these divers using liquid oxygen or derivative basically immersing in the and having a fully um not breathing air but breathing a liquid which sounds terrifying to me because basically got to drown first right and and in the movie they take a rat and do you remember this part of it they take a rat and they put them into the solution and it's of course reacts it doesn't want to drown all of a sudden it inhales the water and it feels it starts to breathe then you don't know about this do you know so here you go no man she's gonna drown look look she's freaking out just going through a normal adjustment period normal just look normal to you she's gonna drown he's taking the fluid into his lungs he's taking the bit of anxiety here now he's starting to relax he's breathing fine see his chest moving getting plenty of oxygen damn rat's breathing that shit there is uh there is a a special unit i'm not going to say exactly where of navy divers that have experimented with that technology whoa and it gives them longer bottom times and all this but it's very um dangerous and um and so So this is a very highly classified unit that I know about.

1:21:02And my wife didn't even know about this until I learned later. And so the experiment with that kind of technology, and if anybody does crash retrieval, by the way, Eric Davis has said there are more crash retrieval operations that have occurred in the ocean than elsewhere. That's wild. And the units that do that is these guys. Well. So does an admiral know about that? In the past and today, probably. And they don't say anything about it. I wonder about like Glomar Explorer too, Hughes Corporation, and a lot of these kind of. So they were the ones, that was the one to recover the Soviet sub. The Soviet sub.

1:21:39The Soviet sub, that was it, yeah. Yeah, so I wonder if any of these things are dual use. Right. Yeah. Why not? If you have some great capability, that's what you would use. And Bob Lazar, it's interesting. So he did this first kind of press run, and he talked about, obviously, Element 115, reverse engineering a craft at S4 Area 51. And he recently, there was a documentary that came out about him, and he just did some other interviews. And he goes, actually, I didn't mean archaeological dig. I meant this was a Navy find on the seafloor. From what Barry said, that was an archaeological dig, which, by the way, isn't in the desert.

1:22:17It's in the water. Yeah, that was happened upon by the Navy.

1:22:24and that's all I know. And so I find that to be very interesting data point as well. Oh, I like to know what he has to say about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, not much more than that. That's kind of, you know. But you also have Pax River is very interesting. I just had on Missouri Representative Congressman Eric Burleson, who's a great guy. I like that guy. He's super kind of straight shooter. What does he know about Pax River? Well, he visited Pax River. and he said you know and it's public that you know it's probably the most advanced you know aviation naval aviation facility in the u.s and he visited and he said if we if we were to store a craft it would be here and i'll tell you just being there and seeing it um if you were ever going to do a transfer it would be logistically the perfect venue to do that and he said maybe there was even And like, you know, that Lockheed trying to exfiltrate their UFO so that Bigelow could have their eyes on it and look at it.

1:23:22Maybe that craft was held there. And so that was fascinating. Again, who knows? I used to live by there. Yeah, that's very fascinating. I wish you'd like to know. Yeah, same. And then, of course, you have, do you know about this Bluegill Triple Prime test? Very much. My wife and I helped Jeff Krugshank write the report on it. Oh, wow. Yeah. Okay. So you're familiar with this. There's a whole section of, he wrote this report, and there's a whole section where we examine deck logs of ships that we think were involved in some partial recovery of either that object or something related to it. This is amazing.

1:23:58The context for this is Harold Malmgren, who's this kind of elder statesman. You interviewed him. I interviewed him. That was a great interview. Thank you. I appreciate it. And I really, Pippa is wonderful. She's amazing. I wish I met him. It's an honor for you to. It was a total honor. and I felt in many ways unqualified, but just really, as I do here, but it was just a great, beautiful interaction kind of at the end of his life. He talked about actually holding the pieces from this crash and that it came down, I guess, out of the plume of this nuclear blast. In 1962, in October, you had this bluegill triple prime test.

1:24:36He said, well, he reached for some stuff sitting on his desk. these are things that have come down I'm looking at round rock so you're looking at anomalous material debris and there were these navy deck logs and I believe there might have even been an outage on one of the ships there was some radioactive everything shut down they lost power and then there's this

1:25:08Sopas, Special Officer Present Afloat. Senior Officer Present Afloat. There you go. You would know. So General Starbird, I believe, was his name. Admiral? Admiral Starbird. Okay. Great name. You're helping me walk through this. And he flew, I believe, to the U.S. in seemingly this kind of like emergency fit at 4 a.m. that night. Yeah. So it seems like something dropped out. And then there's a guy who used the Freedom of Information Act to request all records of UAV, UAP, UFO, any acronym related to UFO from the Starfish Prime series. And they were like, yeah, we have responsive records, but we had to forward them to the subject matter expert who knows about this.

1:25:53Yeah, the NNSA said this. Oh, yeah. So who was that that requested him? It was an anonymous requester. So, you know, maybe you have to put, you know, adjust your belief in that somewhat based on that. But, you know, it seemed like a real request and it seemed like he screenshotted the response. So it seems like there's a tapestry of evidence that a UFO might have come out of this plume from Bluegill Triple Prime. And it's just amazing. I'm, again, not 100%, but very highly likely I'm convinced it did. Yeah. And so that's what happened is we went and looked at all the deck logs for Jeff because he, great guy, by the way, really diligent researcher, nice person too.

1:26:37And because we know how, we could read a deck log and know exactly what's going on. And so, okay, the ship's doing this. This is what happened. And we were able to interpret for him what we think was going on. Did you think that something anomalous was recovered? A hundred percent. From the deck log? I do. Wow. So this is fascinating. And I love that you're saying this because you have the authority to say it. And there are a bunch of other people who are weighing in and they're like, it's the instrumentation pod or it's the booster or whatever. Oh, yeah. Well, there's there's that. There was there were there were those.

1:27:08But then but you have to line up. There's there's other elements of that recovery operation that are very anomalous. And then and then then some things that aren't even in the deck log that that you could tell that they should have been cited and weren't because we know the history. He went and researched the history. Why didn't they put that in the tech log? There's a personnel transfer of divers. Interesting. Yeah. This is fascinating. So let me draw back. I can't say 100 % because I didn't see the object. Sure. But there was a highly unusual operation that occurred and some of it was not recorded.

1:27:42I think so too. Yeah. Because there's a section where when they do make this first recovery attempt, they're I'm doing all these engine orders. And if I recall, I have to go look at the report again. And they were laying out all this anchor line. Okay, that was the, now I remember. They laid out all this anchor line where previously when they anchored, they only laid out a little bit because they were going to pull up the hook, as they call it, very soon after. So there's no need to set out a lot of anchor line if you're going to, move the next day. But there was this portion where they laid out a ton of shot.

1:28:24That's the term that you say. Because they were going to do something that was going to be really heavy lifting. You know, spending time with Harold, that guy wasn't alive. Yeah, well, there you go. No, he had nothing to gain. Had nothing to gain. Nothing to gain. I'm glad. And it was so sweet of Pippa to be with him and have – that was a great interview. Thank you. Well, he was amazing. and uh you know he's just a an incredible guy um how do we get back to the future when it comes to our oceans because i think about the 50s 60s 70s and you had sea lab and you had you know and then you had this unfortunate death on sea lab but you had this idea of aquanauts you know now we think of just astronauts are we getting there first off there's a cool thing about sea lab yeah i happen and this is in my book too, I happened to be at Stennis Space Center.

1:29:16That's where my command was stationed. And that's the nature of NASA stations is you often have multi-uses. So you have some Navy units, maybe you have, there was actually a Navy SEAL unit there too. But, and so we were there and they had some special event one day that I went to and it involved some of the Mercury astronauts giving a small talk because they were on a road show to promote some NASA space-related education initiative. And so a big auditorium full of the three astronauts. It was Wally Schirra, Gordon Cooper, and Scott Carpenter. Heroes here. And I had a chance to hear them speak.

1:29:58And then the audience, of course, asked all the normal questions about space. A lot of high school kids there. And so what's it like to be an astronaut? And zero gravity. And how do you go to the bathroom? And all those things. little kids do that i got up and i asked scott carpenter i said because he'd been at sea lab he was the only guy one of the few people who'd been an astronaut and aquanaut and so i asked him how he compared the two and he said he said oh going up in space is just glorious it's you're shot on the end of a rocket you get up there and everything's bright and beautiful and and you come back and you know after not very long and it's just the most amazing uh experience of your lifetime and then he paused and he said, well, but when you go in the ocean, things are really hard and they break and it's cold.

1:30:46So he had nothing good about it. It was just a lot of challenges. And I don't know when the death occurred, but yeah. And I know this from my wife being a diver. The ocean is a very hard environment to operate in. And it's funny because I left that meeting going, how funny or ironic that a member Kennedy gave his big speech at Rice University. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard. Yeah. And here is Scott Carpenter telling me that operating space is a cakewalk, but going in the ocean is another story, which I know to be true from Victor's expedition, because he actually got it all documented on a Discovery Channel series.

1:31:27and things break and you lose comms and all this. So at any rate though, technology is allowing us to move beyond that. And I actually have advised a new company called Deep. That's just their name. And they're building an ocean habitat. It's already deployed in the Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary, which is like an underwater national park that NOAA manages. And so they just installed it. And their chief scientist is a wonderful woman named Dawn Cronegas. And she's already, I think she's already dived the habitat. So my goal is to go dive that habitat soon. Yeah. So that's there. There's another one.

1:32:04I gave a talk last year at EarthX, an environmental conference. And I did a fireside chat like we're doing here with a NASA, former NASA astronaut called named Dr. Scott Parazinski. He's an MD and he was the head space walker for NASA for a while. And he now is an advisor for a new company. And the name escapes me. I think it's Proteus and it's one of the Custod sons founded it and they're building ocean habitats too. So when you think about those and the fact that new technologies like autonomy, robots, robotics are advancing so rapidly. And look at what Victor did. We're going to see more and more of this.

1:32:50I'm so excited because we've mapped more of the moon and Mars than we have our own planet. Isn't that right? Right. And that's another thread to take us down about under CUAP, that yes, we know not only more of the seabed, or pardon me, we've mapped the moon, the surfaces of moon and Mars to a higher resolution than our seabed. We've only mapped 27 % of the seafloor to modern standards. That's so much territory. And it's 70 % of the planet. And then we've only explored with drifters, floats, and drones about 10 % of the ROVs, 10 % of the ocean volume. So this could be an answer to the Fermi paradox.

1:33:33Yeah, where is everybody? Exactly. They're in the oceans where they are. Exactly. And we know the UAP, whatever is controlling it, they're elusive. They are not just showing up and announcing themselves. And so that fact and the large territory of the ocean that we know nothing about really points in the direction that that's probably where they are. Yeah. Fellow UAP White House advisor, Kevin Knuth. Yeah. He has a great theory about... Quick correction. Yeah, go for it. We're not reporting to the White House. Okay. We report to the ODNI. Okay, got it. Of course, the White House, as the White House does, you know, the Department of War reports to the NSC.

1:34:14And so, and then they, they're both, NSC is a White House body. ODNI supports the White House and reports to the White House. So we have that layer there. Got it. Okay. Yeah. Good, good correction. He talks about water worlds and basically planets that have water as being like the perfect kind of Goldilocks zone. Because obviously you have phase transitions, you have, you know, solid, liquid, gas, plasma. And so if you can have a liquid form of water, it's like an indication that you're in some sort of Goldilocks zone. And so you have Mars is way too cold. You have Venus is way too hot as an example.

1:34:51So we're this perfect sort of third planet distance away from the sun. And so if you have other water worlds, maybe that's where you'd have this Kardashev four scale civilization that is really advanced. And so maybe, you know, if there is kind of an interstellar highway, the kind of connective thread as to where they camp out on different planets is they would camp out in water worlds. Interesting. Yeah. Of course, they're not so habitable, but the moons of Jupiter and Saturn, Enceladus and Europa, they're, I think, hypothesized to have ocean interiors with ice exteriors. Yes. And so NASA has been working to build capabilities that actually funded some of our work to, the goal was to basically land on the surface and then punch a hole and send in a remotely operated vehicle.

1:35:52And so some of our NOAA ROV work, we have an exploration ship called the Oceanus Explorer. We, I think NASA supported to advance that technology that they could eventually apply for missions to those moons. That would be amazing. That's so cool. What's cool about that is, kind of related, is that NASA astronauts all train in Houston in one of the largest pools in the world. It's called the Neutral Buoyancy Lab. Okay. Have you ever heard of it? No. It's so cool. Wow. Yeah. And so basically, they all wear their space gear in this pool to simulate neutral buoyancy, gravity-free. And so what's neat about that is now in my whole past government work, I've been working for companies.

1:36:40And the prime contractor for that facility, the Neutral Buoyancy Lab, is a company called Rothy. And they're going public and they wanted me to come on their board. And so I got to go down there and check out that whole awesome setup. And they have a whole team of divers that support the astronauts. So sooner or later, they're going to have a VIP diving day. And my wife and I are going to go down and get on a scuba and go dive that tank with astronauts. Wow. I know. That's amazing. Anyways, all kind of related stuff there. Speaking of, you know, maybe geothermal pockets that are habitable within ice, do you think that anything might be residing in Antarctica that we're not aware of?

1:37:21Yeah. Isn't there a lot about that possibility? and I think who was someone thought that Admiral Byrd had some encounter when he was down there yeah exactly there's I know nothing of that I have friends who worked in Antarctica I have friends know of friends who previously had been ice divers down there and then I have a another colleague who's a very accomplished underwater photographer named Becky Schott and she is does expeditions down there all the time and is a very accomplished diver, ice diver. There's nobody I know who's been down there and there are many who have seen anything. I've heard the reports, but right now I don't have any data.

1:38:02Just legends for now. Yeah. But your wife is a remote viewer, is that right? She just finished this Paul Smith training? Yes. Okay. This is a good line of inquiry because like mainstream science, as we alluded to before, uh, I don't know how it, how it has been, but, but in mainstream science, uh, consciousness has not been treated as it should be. Right. And, and the idea of all these aspects of consciousness, like out of body experiences, near death experiences, uh, and, and, and the, the survival of human consciousness after death, right after death so uh and the and other related uh characteristics phenomena like telepathy and so i just like uap stigmatized that nothing there there it's not real it's not scientific well what we're seeing now is whether it be the scientific study or uh like with the division of perceptual studies at university of virginia do you know that yeah oh yeah okay those people those fine people, those scientists, or Diane Hennessey Powell and her work with autistic patients.

1:39:13How about that? It's amazing. Did you have her on her show? Oh, yeah. I've had her on. She talks about the conversations these autistic kids have together telepathically. Yeah, they commune on a hill. Yeah, that's right. Almost like a meeting station, but in some mental etheric form or something. It's amazing. Right. Yes. So that is all real, right? It's documented. This is a real phenomena. And now it's taking it to the applied level in this case of remote viewing. First off, Hal Puthoff is a good friend and colleague of mine. And he's shared extensively about his experience with that, the Stargate program.

1:39:54And then one of the Stargate programs, I believe founders was Paul Smith or at least he was the army guy. And now he's, he's taken that further. He's written a manual on remote viewing and it's all about, have you ever remote viewed? No, I've never remotely. You learn a protocol. Like so many, I guess, just experiences or methods, there's a way to basically tap into that knowledge which is out there. All knowledge is somehow interconnected. And so Karen has taken one basic course, and then she just finished the advanced course. She actually went to his place in Cedar City, Utah. And she's really good, by the way.

1:40:37So what happens is the facilitator gives you a target, basically a set of pictures with a grid coordinate of somewhere, a facility, a natural formation, whatever. And then so he's got this target in mind. And then I guess all he does is reveal to the viewer the coordinates of it. And this is a protocol that started out at Stargate and they kind of worked it over time with really talented remote viewers like Ingo Swann. Yeah. And, um, yeah. And Joe McMoneagle, one of your guests. Yeah. He's brilliant. And so Karen took, took it all and she, and it works. It's really remarkable because she'll, okay.

1:41:20And you go through a set of things where you sort of basically clear your mind. And then, then sometimes now your, your mind is always, when you're getting a perception, this is perception, uh, of something, your, your mind will automatically want to make sense of it. Okay, if you're seeing, for example, like a wooden tone or something, you're going to go, okay, you're going to build a table right there in your mind. You do that. You make a mental model. And in the protocol, you learn to recognize when your mind is doing that and you shut it off. Okay, and they call it analytical overlay. You know about it.

1:41:56Oh, yeah. Okay, okay, there you go. And so Karen's, I won't say she's mastered this, but she's done this for two years now and she's really good. Wow. And he's nailed these targets he's gotten to her where she'll start drawing it out. She'll start naming all the kind of associations she's getting, whether the shape, the color, the texture. So she'll start with words and then she'll start drawing aspects of it. And I even participated in an experiment. And there are instances where I got the target spot on. And so I even toyed with it. I was part of their little experiment with the group. And she's gotten them right on the money.

1:42:33And these aren't things you can make up. One of her targets was this really cool geological formation in a national park. And she drew them just to a T. Wow. You know, it wasn't Disneyland. You know, it wasn't the space station. It was that. And she drew exactly that. That's incredible. She's done it multiple times. Yeah. Wow. So this is the whole thing, consciousness studies. I hope, as UAP may be becoming, that more of our, especially this, because more of our society that accepts this nature of humanity, this truth, the truth, the real nature of humanity, there's so much we can do with that.

1:43:14human potential is so held back by our not accepting the full uh uh possibilities of our consciousness and and um and human connection yeah yeah like all the ufo infighting yeah if you want once you really get to understand the nature of your mind and other and connecting with other minds maybe all that'll stop yeah totally and i mean that's on the line right it's like the nature of consciousness and the nature of reality and truth about metaphysics and stuff. You know, it is a great book. It was a great book. Have you read Dan Brown's Secret of Secrets? You know, Brandon Fugle, he was just on the show and he just brought that up.

1:43:57If you care about this topic, read it. He has mastered the story. It's a great storyline too, by the way. But he goes into all of this. You will be, if you're on the fence about this, this nature of consciousness, you, I would think you will be a firm, not, you won't believe you will know when you finish reading this book. I can't wait to read it. Oh gosh, it's good. That's amazing. He's so, I would love to interview him. I think he lives in New Hampshire or somewhere in the Northeast. Yeah. Just an amazing, I mean, I've read Angels and Demons and the Da Vinci Code and stuff. He's amazing. Yeah.

1:44:30He's really incredible. Do you ever use remote viewing like daily life or like decision making or anything like that? No, because again, you have to be disciplined about the protocol. There's an aspect of how your mind works. It's very hard to filter out. And I've just not practiced it enough. However, though, intuition. So we're very related. At the beginning, we all talked about intention. You did. And I think that's a really important part of this conversation that when your intention is good and positive, I think then then I think your mind for some reason is it's more accessible. Your consciousness is expanded in a way when you have good intention.

1:45:21I think so, too. I think that's the secret of all of this whole topic is it unlocks for you when you have really pure intentions. And when you're seeking truth and you don't have ulterior motives, you know, I think good things happen. They do. And my life is an example of that. And I actually, again, my book, there's a lot of stories I have in this about it's better to be lucky than good. Oh, I love that. But it's really about having pure positive intention. Whenever I've had that, good things happen, great things happen. It was about my going to the Naval Academy really quickly. So there's a whole story in there.

1:45:57I shouldn't have gone in. But I wanted to study the ocean and I wanted to serve my country. And what happened, you like stories, so you're a storyteller. So I wanted to do this from an early age and I kind of misguided, but I also wanted to get a PhD from Scripps. And I learned that the Naval Academy had one scholarship to Scripps. And I thought, okay, I want to study the ocean. It's got a pathway to Scripps, Scripps Institution of Oceanography in La Jolla, California. with Woods Hole, the top two oceanographic schools in the country, the world. So I wanted that. And I go to the academy. I show up on the very first day.

1:46:37And they take all the physical tests you took before to get in. And so I retake them. And I get to this color vision test. Have you ever taken a color vision test? I don't think I have. So in the Navy, you get tested for everything. And so the color vision test is called the Ishihara test, test named after a certain science, I guess, doctor and physician. And this test consists of a circular grouping of basically dots, colored dots. And the dots are in different colors and they all make out a number, 10, 12, 7, 8. But you can always see the orange 8 in the green and reds background, right? Okay.

1:47:21So, and this is, this is, this is to test you for a very common genetic trait of colored effectiveness in men. Some women, but mostly men have it. And there are a lot of people in the population have it. I don't know the number, but it's not small. And so, but unfortunately that disqualifies you from naval service because in naval service, you need to be able to see green and red very clearly because those are the lights, navigation lights on ships. or aircraft. And so if you can't understand the lights on a ship, you're not going to know the configuration. You could potentially have problems navigating.

1:47:56It's really a strict requirement. I go take that test on the day, my first day at the Academy, July 2nd, 1985. And I failed that test. And the corpsman administering it said, and we're all getting back to pure intention, okay? He said, whoa, how'd you even get accepted here? Go to the side. We're going to report you. You're going to, you're going to be gone. And oh my gosh. So I go to my, I tell my dad and, and, and the swim coach who recruited me, oh no. And they run around and go off and, and ultimately I take a wait. And, um, what happens behind the scenes is the, I was the fastest 500 freestyler in the country in, uh, for prep schools, uh, in, in, uh, that year.

1:48:38Wow. So I was recruited heavily and the coach found out and he reported it to the athletic director and they decided to give me something they'd never done before. A waiver letter that I signed acknowledging that I couldn't go to the traditional line officer specialties, surface aircraft pilot, submarine, that I could only, when I graduate, do restricted work that involved either intelligence, medical, or oceanography. So it's what I wanted and it was actually given to me, even though I shouldn't even gotten in. Wow. And they accept me. I go in and here I am. I should never even gone. Wow. And I did.

1:49:17And I followed the exact path I wanted to follow. So, and I was, and I was, and there's, this is not even the only time in my book where I talk about this, where I had good intention and I should never have gotten it. Yeah. But somehow I think that was it, is I wanted a good path and the universe opened it up for me. Well, that's a beautiful thing. What's the most precarious situation you've ever been in in the Navy? Okay, good. So there's the Navy, no doubt, and I tell this story too. I was on an aircraft carrier and my job was the officer of the deck. So I was in charge. I was a ship's oceanographer, but I had a division of aerographers, mates that predicted weather.

1:49:58And I didn't really need to step in that much. So I became a deck watch officer. So I was in charge of the ship for two four-hour stretches a day. directing all movements, right, left, ahead, slow down, launch aircraft, recover aircraft, don't launch aircraft, don't recover aircraft, giving all the orders for this aircraft care. In two combat operations, Enduring Freedom, when we first flew strikes into Afghanistan, I came at the tail end of that. And then we did all the strikes into Iraq in 2003 during Iraqi freedom. So big, high stress job. And at one point we were going to the Persian Gulf for Iraqi freedom.

1:50:34We're going through the Strait of Malacca. And when you do that, I'm driving the aircraft carrier. You're 100 feet off the waterline. You're way up there. And we, narrow waterway, because the USS Cole had been bombed a few years before, we were really wary of any terrorist attacks. So we launched our helicopters. That was the protocol with 50 cal machine guns. And they were basically patrolling for any small boats that would try to attack us. And, and so the, we're driving, I have a destroyer who's about a thousand yards on my port bow, headed me to the port and she was the USS Curtis Wilbur. And, um, and so we, and we have a strike group commander embark and he gives all the orders to the strike group.

1:51:21So I'm driving the ship, the aircraft care, the Kitty Hawk. And they give the order for the Curtis Wilbur. So we launched the helicopters to watch out for terrorists. And because we launched helicopters, when there's anything, any aircraft in the air, we need to have what they call a plane guard, a ship to go behind us in case someone crashes and they can recover the pilot. So they give the order, Curtis Wilbur, go take plane guard off the Kitty Hawk's stern, you know, at such and such a distance. And what normally should have happened is I'm driving, she's ahead of me and she should have just peeled off to port.

1:51:59It would have been an easy day and she would just slow down and take station behind me. She ended up turning to starboard and she was so close and it happened so quickly that As she turned to starboard, the flight deck ahead of me, there's basically an 800-foot shadow zone of seawater that I can't see. And her bow basically disappeared, right? Like in that shadow zone. That's how close she was. I'm going 12 knots or so. And immediately, of course, I do everything I'm supposed to do. I yell out, right hard rudder, all engines head flank to just make me do that. Sound the collision alarm. and uh announced brace for shock and uh and then and then you know this happens when people get in these situations uh time just totally slowed down for me uh and i remember having all these thoughts i thought oh my god we are gonna cut that ship in half and there's nothing i can do about it and there and that that would have been that would have it would likely would have sunk we would have had at least 200 people killed probably more all sailors dying very horrible deaths i mean And fires sinking.

1:53:12It was just the worst image I've ever seen in my life and mentally. And then I thought, oh, my God, we're going to get hit. And we're going to probably end up having some water come in and damage control necessary. We call general quarters and I call general quarters. And then fires would break out. My sailors might be fighting those fires, actually. And some of our sailors might get killed. All these things flooded my mind before, you know, that one second. and thank God, uh, the ship did the right thing at the right time and shifted a rudder. And she just barely avoided us. Of course, the captain's on the phone with the admiral and every, you know, every big swirl of activity there afterwards.

1:53:54Um, but that, that was, that was the most precarious thing. And there was really nothing I could do. It was just because we were in that close quarters maneuvering in a straight. Um, yeah, but yeah. Also all I can tell you is I I have been blessed. In this book, I talk about these times where challenging situations, again, working for Trump, and it worked out. We achieved good. Thankfully, the alternative didn't occur. And I just feel like I've had this very gifted life, and that's why I wanted to tell my story. That's beautiful. Well, don't ask questions. Keep riding the wave. Well, actually, you're right about that, because as we talked about, there's some exciting possibilities ahead for us, for humanity, and I'm excited to contribute to that.

1:54:45Yeah, well, I think you are contributing to it. And everybody go buy the book, Holding Fast in the Heavy Seas. And I'm just really honored. Oh, by the way, Victor wrote an endorsement. Oh, did he? Oh, cool. I got to tell you, I'm blessed. I have some great endorsements. Victor wrote one. One of my favorite ocean authors. So as we talk about the oceans in UAP, if anybody, any of your listeners, viewers like the ocean, they should read any of the books by the top line endorser Susan Casey. She's this really brilliant writer, New York Times bestseller multiple times, has a latest book about undersea exploration called The Underworld.

1:55:24She's written a book about waves called The Wave. She goes and rides a jet ski with Laird Hamilton into the lineup at Peahee, you know, Jaws. Oh, yeah. Yeah, there's some good, that's a great book. And she has a book about dolphins called Voices in the Ocean. And another really cool book, I talked about NOAA having national marine sanctuaries or underwater national parks. She wrote a book about the sanctuary in the Farallone Islands off of San Francisco and all their history about the great white shark population that lives there. wow she sounds amazing it's called Devil's Teeth Devil's Teeth and she always goes in the field for all of her work so you know what oh by the way so her book about the about exploration of the ocean called The Underworld she goes and dives the Marianas Trench with Victor whoa yeah so shout out to Susan Casey Susan Casey is yeah a legend she is she's brilliant wow yeah getting that endorsement was just such an honor that's amazing can I ask you a final question yeah If you were an alien civilization, where would you hide out?

1:56:32Under the ocean. What principles would you use? I don't have to be an alien to want to be in the ocean. Fair enough. I told you that. That was my whole career. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, you're already into it. In fact, that's it. I'm so lucky now. Me and my wife dive the world because I'm not in the government anymore and we have time. Wow. So we just finished diving the blue hole in Belize. Oh, cool. Which is this really cool feature. We did it with our daughters. And we also did Iron Bottom Sound off Guadalcanal. Have you ever heard of that? Naval history. Okay. Okay. So in 1942, this was a real precarious, use that word again, time in World War II when it was the first time after Midway, the Battle of Midway, that we went on the offensive.

1:57:15And we decided to take a Japanese airfield in the Solomon Islands. And it was on this island called Guadalcanal. Guadalcanal. It was this obscure area, but it was kind of that point where basically we in Japan met halfway. They were advancing, we were going on the offensive, and it was the place to take hold of an airfield. And then from there, we launched the island hopping campaign that assured us victory. So in 1942, there was this place where there was almost a year of continuous naval action, ships sinking ships. And there's so many shipwrecks in this little area off of Guadalcanal, they call it Iron Bottom Sound.

1:57:52Wow. Yeah. And so my wife and I went and dived there. Oh, wow. On some of the wrecks there. That was phenomenal. That's incredible. I'm not sure what's next. Oh, I knew we're going to Bermuda. So Bermuda Triangle, we're going to dive the Bermuda Triangle. Do you think there's something to the Bermuda Triangle legends of electromagnetic anomalies and flights going missing and that sort of thing? There's data. There's evidence of anomalies. Yeah. So let's tie this all together now. Yeah. Undersea bases, possibly, right? We know five to seven locations. Yes. We have anomalies like at the ranch. Bermuda Triangle.

1:58:29Yeah. Who knows? I'm going to be sailing through it with my family on a cruise ship. That's amazing. And then we're going to dive off Bermuda. Scuba dives. I'll let you know what we find. Oh, you're going to have a blast. Well, keep with the proper intentions. Amen. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And wow, that'll be a lot of fun. And yeah, it's just been an honor. I really appreciate it, Admiral. This has been a long time coming for me. I've followed your work for many years now in the UAP topic, but obviously you have this illustrious career, you know, behind that where you're adding your credentials to this kind of frontier.

1:59:01And I'm just really grateful for you coming. Hey, I am grateful to be here, Jesse. And I'm just I'm honored and delighted to be a fellow seeker of truth with you. Oh, there you go. Head to AmericanAlchemyMerch.com to grab official American Alchemy merch and support the show directly. And while you're there, the Cowboy UFO T is a fan favorite we always keep in stock, along with the Atomic Age design. Thank you all so much for following and supporting the show.

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