Americanswers…on 5 Live! “Chipocalypse Now”… has Trump declared war on Chicago?

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1:13BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts. Hi there, it's Sarah here. And as usual on a Monday, along with Anthony and Mariana, I've just been on Five Live with Matt Charlie answering the questions you sent in to us. Like why is Donald Trump threatening to go to war with Chicago? How might the new UK Foreign Secretary get on with the MAGA crowd in the White House? And might the biggest immigration raid in the US yet actually upset Donald Trump's economic policy? Thanks for asking all these questions for us and do please keep them coming. You can WhatsApp us plus 44 330 123 9480 or email americas.bbc.co.uk.

1:52We really do read them all and try and answer as many of them as we can. Welcome to AmeriCanswers. AmeriCast. AmeriCast from BBC News. You're gambling with the lives of millions of people. You're gambling with World War III. President Trump's message is very simple. We are done being taken advantage of. Mr. President, in the name of our God, have mercy upon the people who are scared now. Are you supportive of these onesies? I'm supportive of vaccines. What is happening? Like, this is not America. This is a terrible nightmare. This is what victory feels like. Yeah!

2:39First, an email from AJ McCormick in Galloway says, Is this the end? Trump at the US Open men's finale. there's also been lots of discussion over how much Trump was booed at the tennis last night there was also some cheering to be clear let's listen to a bit of it

3:10Right Sarah, how significant is this moment? Well this does happen when Donald Trump appears in public What I don't know is whether or not it ruined his appearance, which was this kind of attention grabbing and performance of him turning up at the event in the US where most eyes were focused. And he had all of his coterie with him as well, not just family members, but half the cabinet who have to appear by his side at lots and lots of these public appearances, leaving you to wonder when they get a chance to do any work at all. because he's got the Treasury Secretary and the Attorney General and his Middle East envoy all accompanying him to watch a tennis match.

3:48But nonetheless, yes, if he's there to soak up the adoration, of course being booed is not going to please him in any way at all. But with Donald Trump, he has a pretty thick skin and I think being the centre of attention is probably enough. How is this playing out online, Mariana? Well, as you may expect, opinions differ. I think what's been most interesting about this is, you know, the White House came out quite strongly, quite quickly on X after Trump's sort of initial appearance at the finale. So not then when they came to him sort of a later point again saying, look, actually, this is, you know, this is fake news media.

4:24There weren't boos, whereas various reporters who were there were filing dispatches saying, well, there was some booing and they were trying to argue. No, no, no, there was cheering. I mean, it felt like a bit like the crowd size arguments that we've seen happen before, where there's one version of events unfolding on X and then another in reality. And when it comes down to it, it's kind of a combination of the two. I mean, perhaps it's unsurprising that in a state like New York, at a game like a game of tennis like that, there might be quite a few people there who don't like Donald Trump very much.

4:51I mean, that's not necessarily the demographic that he's been trying to appeal to. There'll be some people there who do like him. but it shows how if you weren't at that game and you didn't watch the game how possible it is to shift what happened to suit your interests either way and to pick clips or bits that point towards what you wanted to do it reminded me quite a lot of and it was interesting thinking about the way this played out online versus you know Donald Trump popped up at the Club World Cup if anyone was paying attention to that where Chelsea won appeared on the pitch with Chelsea yeah there were these pictures of him standing in front of like Cole Palmer and all of the Chelsea team and Rhys James who were like, why is the president still here while they were like lifting the cup and everything?

5:32But that kind of played out well because it was sort of funny. Like obviously some people thought it was a bit bizarre. Other people found it funny, particularly online. Whereas this, like there weren't any funny memes. It's kind of just had the effect of saying, well, what was the point of this? Was this a stunt or not? And then also, I guess some people using it to say the media don't tell the truth about Donald Trump. They're always out to get him, that kind of thing. even when the evidence says otherwise. I mean, rather than using a clapometer to measure the president's poll ratings, what are his actual poll ratings telling us?

6:04The polls are telling us that Donald Trump is net unfavorable. I mean, it's a very rare politician to show up at a sporting event or any big public event and not get booed in this country. I mean, it's just kind of the nature of the beast because there is going to be a certain percentage of people who don't like that person and will be very vocal about it. But the last few polls have a low 40s, low to mid 40s approval rating. The CBS News had 44 to 56, for instance. You can pick outliers like there was a Daily Mail poll that showed Donald Trump have a 10 percent positive approval rating. So I'd say overall, though, about where a lot of American presidents settle, which is unpopular, but at least at this point, not so unpopular that it is a giant red flashing light for, say, the midterm elections next year.

6:52well see um if uh and actually the one thing that made me think of it immediately was it obviously george osborne was booed at the paralympics famously oh yeah they then went on to win a majority so it doesn't necessarily equate to one to the other um anyway let's move on um to uh the department of war alan in geneva has emailed americast at bbc.co.uk he says donald trump has repeatedly said that we won the first world war we won the second world war we won everything before that and in between as a justification for renaming the Department of Defence to the Department for War. I've yet to see or hear any corrections to Trump's overstatement.

7:28Why are his statements going uncontested by the media? Anthony? Well, I mean, I guess if you look at it, the United States probably won the Gulf War in the early, early 90s, certainly dominated Iraq and that probably lost the War of 1812 before when It was Department of War, although, you know, it was a pyrrhic victory for the Brits. I mean, you burned our capital down, but you didn't end up taking back the United States. It is a simplification, I think, but it fits in with what Donald Trump, the way Donald Trump views American history, which is that the United States was better in the golden era, the 19th century, when we had terrorists protecting our industry and no personal income taxes and the country was more self-reliant.

8:13It is a politics based on nostalgia and the idea that the golden age was once there but has been lost. It can be restored through Donald Trump's sheer force of will. So it's a bit weird because I thought Donald Trump's whole thing was that he wants to end wars, get out of forever. He didn't like wars. He didn't like all the death and destruction of wars. So why would he so enthusiastically want a Department of War? Well, he says that name shows the strength, the projection of American might, which in itself stops you from having to declare war or use any of your soldiers because everybody will be cowering in fear at the idea of the US were to get involved and bring their war machine against them.

8:59And that's enough to keep the peace, is the argument Donald Trump makes. But also, I mean, whilst you're absolutely right, he doesn't want to send U.S. forces overseas and get embroiled in any of what he calls these foreign wars. Of course, he wants to project strength for himself as much as for the nation. So he's got this, well, Secretary for War now, Pete Hegseth, who's always talking about restoring lethality to the American military, about a warrior ethos that he wants to bring in. So they want the American soldiers to look as though they're tougher and more dangerous than anybody else on Earth so that they can, yeah, sort of, you know, practice at home rather than having to ever use these skills abroad.

9:40Well, we'll see if the name change makes any material difference to what actually happens. Let's move on to, well, Chicago apocalypse now, Chipocalypse. Could the boss of the Internet explain, please? I was about to say that this could, this falls into the bossing the Internet. of course, of the internet. Mariana, what is this picture? And then we've got Sarah who wants to ask a question about it. So this is an image and I believe it looks like it's AI generated. It's kind of like an, but it looks like an illustration. I mean, it's obviously not real. And it shows Donald Trump in a cowboy hat.

10:16He posted it on Truth Social. He's in sort of like, would you call that army gear? I don't really know what you call that. Like a jumpsuit thing. It's a US Army sort of fatigue. Air cavalry. Yeah, there you go. There you go, Anthony. And it's there's like town is on fire. Chicago is on fire in the background. You've got smoke. You've got helicopters. And it says chipocalypse now referring to apocalypse now. And he says Donald Trump in his post. I love the smell of deportations in the morning in quotes. Chicago about to find out why it's called the Department of War in capitals. and I have to say this is typical Donald Trump like he always does these kinds of we often call them rage bait like things that will obviously provoke a reaction which people will not like very much and are designed to be a talking point I mean in this case it's about sending the military into Chicago to deal with crime and then the possibility of also using them to deal with issues around immigration illegal immigration and so on and so forth.

11:15Okay so we have got Sarah on the line hello Sarah. Hello. Where in the world are you Sarah? South Wales, just outside Cardiff. Very nice. And what is your question about Chipocalypse Now? Well, given that meme, and there seems to be no decent opposition or way to oppose what Trump is up to, at what point do states like Illinois or California or Louisiana, given New Orleans is on his list, when do those states start thinking about secession and saying they just don't want to play at all? Well, you know, we fought a war over secession. the Civil War in the 1860s. It didn't end well for the states that tried to secede.

11:55And I think that settled once and for all the legality, the possibility of states breaking away from the union. So I certainly understand the sentiment. And that is a sentiment that a lot of people in places like California feel very out of step with what Donald Trump is trying to do from Washington feel. But in practicality, it would be legally impossible for them to do so. Now, they might take steps where they try to assert more independence within the United States, try to come up with their own policies that counter what the federal government is doing. I can think of one big one recently on vaccine mandates where states are banding together to certify vaccines and to make them more available, just as the federal government is changing their rules on them and making them less available nationally.

12:42So there are there's there's steps on the halfway point between totally breaking away from the union, which would be devastating and possibly, you know, a war inspiring kind of a step. But but this would be a way for them to try to keep their independence and hold what Trump and the Republicans in Washington are doing at bay. Is it worth saying just, Matt, about the picture itself? And to your point, Sarah, you know, there are, exactly as you found, there are people who've reacted to this image who are really shocked by it, who feel like even for Donald Trump, it's kind of next step of almost suggesting, yeah, like civil war within America, like this idea that he's kind of against certain places or certain states and they've taken real offence to it.

13:25I would say, though, as ever, and maybe it's just, you know, the way and this is not necessarily a good or a bad thing, but the way that these images norm, this becomes normal. It's like this becomes Trump's MO on social media. And so we all kind of go, oh, ha ha, it's Trump being Trump again. This is kind of what he does. And to some extent, that's a helpful reaction because it is sort of rage bait. But on the other hand, it does start to just make this stuff kind of seem OK, which if you'd said to someone like 10 years ago, by the way, the president's going to share a meme of shibcopolips now, I can't say the amalgamation.

13:59I think the reason this one isn't going to take off is because the joke doesn't work. Yeah, the word's not good. Because it's Chicago and it's not chip. And I thought it was to do with chips. Which obviously you incorrectly call fries, Anthony. So it doesn't really get any sense. What do you think, Sarah? Well, yeah, I just wanted to add into what Sarah was saying about it not being possible to oppose this. It is, in fact, in Illinois, in Chicago, where the governor is taking a really firm stand against Donald Trump. And he's probably, along with Gavin Newsom, who's playing a very good game on social media of annoying Donald Trump, J.B.

14:34Pritzker, the Illinois governor, is probably the most prominent Democrat standing up to Donald Trump and telling him he can't do this. And it's a little bit different from Washington, D.C., where he was able to send the National Guard onto the streets of where I am now because D.C. is not a state of its own and it doesn't have a governor. Illinois does. It was already ruled illegal in a court that Trump sent National Guard forces to L.A. against the wishes of the California governor. So there's going to be a real battle over this, which may all come to a head this week, which is going to be really interesting.

15:08And in fact, Matt, this is one for you. The J.B. Pritzker, the governor, said on social media, the president of the United States is threatening to go to war with an American city. This is not a joke. This is not normal. and as soon as I read that I thought of you Matt of course because that used to be your catchphrase practically didn't it when you were talking about Brexit when I was writing honestly about Brexit yeah this is not normal it was like I don't know a couple of Labour shadow front benches residing and criticising Jeremy Corbyn rather than the President of the United States declaring war on a state although we should say that Donald Trump has insisted he's not going to war he says he was asked by a reporter at the White House yesterday if he was going to war with Chicago we're not going to war we're going to clean up our cities we're going to clean them up so they don't kill five people every weekend that's not war, that's common sense so that's it's not war, it's not war, it's fine chipocalypse anyway, thank you to Sarah in South Wales for that question let's move on to John in, oh where are you John?

16:15I'm in Adelaide, South Australia what time is it? um not far off midnight so it's it's uh well past my normal bedtime you're very committed well done uh what is your question that you've stayed up till midnight to ask america uh okay um so it's actually about the midterms there's a lot of talk going on about midterms at the moment um but as i understand it it's not an election that will have would would um would mean that Trump would be kicked out. So he's not being recontested. So who is exactly on the ballot? And why is it so important or so significant to the Trump administration? What's going to happen in the midterms?

16:58So you're absolutely right. Donald Trump's name will not be on any of the ballots. They'll be electing all of the members of the House of Representatives and a third of the Senate, as well as some governor's races around the country. So without a presidential contest, it's often much harder to get people to come out and vote. And Donald Trump is going to be working extremely hard between now and then to get as many of his MAGA supporters out to vote for Republican candidates, even though he himself, his name's not on the ballot, because it's vital to him to do well in this, partly because, obviously, it's a referendum on him and his first two years in office.

17:31And for that very reason, sitting presidents, their party tends to do not very well in midterm elections. and the whole future of his project and political movement will be being judged by these midterms. But also, crucially, if the Democrats get a majority in Congress, they can then start doing all sorts of things that will drive Donald Trump wild. Not only can they frustrate his legislative agenda and possibly stop him passing laws that he wants to, they can start investigations into things that he has done. They could possibly even move towards impeaching him for something after they have investigated him.

18:08This is what happened in his first term, of course, over what he calls the Russia, Russia, Russia hoax. And then he was impeached a second time after January the 6th. Only US president to have been impeached twice. That's what he really wants to avoid. Democrats having their hands on the mechanisms of this kind of stuff, which could really, really frustrate his last two years in office. Anthony, we often have listeners getting in touch and saying, you know, they don't see any opposition. Does it feel like that in America? Well, I think the challenge for Democrats right now is they don't hold any of the levers of power in Washington, D.C.

18:42So they can be opposed, but they can't really do anything about it. And if they do take back any chamber of Congress, as Sarah mentioned, they will have a platform on which to oppose. And that's why, as we mentioned earlier in this program, it's governors, people like Pritzker in Illinois and Newsom in California, are becoming the face of the Democratic opposition, because governors do have a certain amount of power. They do have a certain ability to resist. You've also seen a few, as Sarah mentioned, lower court decisions that have tried to put a check on what Donald Trump is doing, his use of the National Guard in California being a big one of those.

19:16Although the U.S. Supreme Court, the highest court in the land, has generally been amenable, given permission to what Trump is doing, at least on a temporary interim basis, The big court battles that are going to reach the high court aren't going to happen until later this year and into next year. But the Democrats are having an active debate right now in Congress about whether they want to cooperate with Republicans to avoid a government shutdown at the end of this month. That is something to watch because they were up for a lot of criticism back in March when they allowed the government to stay open, worked with the Republicans.

19:49And then Donald Trump kind of ran roughshod over them and ended up cutting a lot of the programs they thought they had funded, agreed to fund back in March. So keep your eyes peeled for the next couple of weeks. We've got our next big showdown in Congress happening. And the spotlight will be on what the Democrats do. And then, Marianna, the reason we had the disagreement last week about the phrase bossing the internet, because I suggested that in the past, the Democrats have been the party, particularly under Obama, that had been bossing the internet, and they'd sort of slightly lost their way.

20:16But, I mean, presumably the midterms as an event gives the Democrats something to sort of rally around? It does, although, you know, it obviously doesn't have the same impact. You know, there's not the same kind of cohesiveness of message often across the board really around something like the midterms because it's not the same as a presidential election. But you're right, it kind of gives them something to work towards. I mean, one of the things that's interesting, and I know we chatted about this a bit when we had original Bossing the Internet Gate, but to what extent a lot of this is actually about individual politicians growing their own...

20:53Like, actually, it's not really about the message across the board. It's about the ability of politicians to almost do what Donald Trump has done and just build this whole kind of online brand and inspire what we call organic content. So people making memes, videos, et cetera, and trying things that are different as well. Like maybe they try doing more kind of lives. Maybe they're popping up on more alternative podcasts. How do they engage with the alternative media? How do they figure out like what's the next Joe Rogan or what's the next streamer that they need to be involved with? I think that's the kind of key to the Democrats next bit.

21:25And the midterms is a good, I guess, practice ground for that. There you are, John. Was that worth staying up for? Oh, absolutely. Time for bed now, though, I think. True. Good night. Yeah, don't stay listening to the end of the episode of America. Good to meet you. Thanks a lot. That's John there from Adelaide. Cheers, John. Just finally then to round off, Janet on the Wirral has emailed to say, David Lammy is now Deputy Prime Minister and Justice Secretary, while Yvette Cooper is now Foreign Secretary, as always as a result of Keir Starmer's reshuffle in the UK. Janet says, how will this affect the relationship with J.D.

21:59Vance, who was said to be friendly with David Lammy or might have been the other way around. I don't think Yvette would have fished with Vance with or without a rod licence. There was actually some speculation here, Sarah, that David Lammy got the Deputy Prime Minister job because then he's sort of the equivalent as Vice President so he can continue to manage that relationship. But obviously there might be some... I'm not saying this is the case. Sometimes politicians over-egg their connections and credibility. How is who who are the go to people for the Trump administration in the in the UK government?

22:31Do you think so? Oh, that's a good question. I mean, Donald Trump and Keir Starmer have such a good relationship. I mean, bizarre, puzzling and goodness knows what it was based upon. But it does seem to be absolutely genuine that Donald Trump likes Keir Starmer, doesn't agree with his politics on everything, but is able to talk to him about trade. And yeah, that somehow works. And it was clear that David Lammy had put a lot of work into establishing some kind of similar relationship with J.D. Vance. And that is precisely what you need to do with the Trump administration. Firstly, regardless of how aligned you are on policy, it's all about the absolute personal relationships, face to face, one on one, and whether they feel that they can trust you and get along with you.

23:19If that's the case, then you don't have to be absolutely aligned on everything that you want to do, but they'll discuss with you. If not, no matter actually how much your politics are similar to what's going on in the White House, if they don't like you, they don't like you and they will freeze you out. So, I mean, the first thing that Yvette Cooper has to do is, yeah, is probably get over here and start meeting some people. Of course, next week, we will all, including the president and all of his team, be in the UK for the state visit. That's middle of next week. And so I assume Yvette Cooper will be involved in that and able to shake a few hands.

23:57Maybe, maybe, you never know. Take Marco Rubio fishing or something. I mean, the one thing about Yvette Cooper is there's absolutely she may not have fished with anybody with her without a rod license. But you just know she wouldn't do anything without a license, would she? she would have been all over knowing that you needed a fishing licence and making sure she had one. Well, maybe she might make a part of that. So you're coming over, Sarah? I am. Anthony, are you coming? Are you Anthony? I'm going to be on holiday in Morocco, so no, I'm not going to be paying attention. Also, another cruel twist here is that I'm actually going to be in the US, I think, in San Francisco for this BBC2 documentary I'm doing.

24:35So Sarah will be here and I will have gone. And I'll be in Africa. And you'll be in Africa. We'll all be on different continents. Justin will be here, though. I'll be here. I'll try and speak to you at some point, Sarah. That'll be nice. So maybe see you in person. Yes, that would be brilliant, wouldn't it? We could discuss how to boil an egg off air correctly. Well, that brings us to the end. No, because Sarah... I know, that just landed not probably as you intended. No, Sarah has these brilliant gadgety things. It's changed my life. Boiling an egg, it's an incredible thing.

25:15All right. Well, we've wrapped up with that, Charlie. Mariana has gone back to her conspiracy land world. But Sarah, I wanted to talk to you about another big story that we didn't get to in today's episode, and that is the immigration raid on the Hyundai plant in South Carolina. About 500 undocumented migrants, according to the federal government, were rounded up. A big chunk of them, 300 plus, were South Korean nationals and has created a bit of a diplomatic incident between the two countries, South Korea and the U.S., but also raising questions about what Donald Trump is trying to do with his immigration enforcement.