Americanswers… on 5 Live! How will Donald Trump respond to the ‘No Kings’ protests?

0:00This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.

0:30And to think, that's just a small taste of what Schwab offers. Because Schwab knows that when it comes to your finances, choice matters. No matter your goals, investing style, life stage or experience, Schwab has everything you need, all in one place, so you can invest your way. Visit schwab.com to learn more. Hi there. It's Monday afternoon in the UK, just before 4 o 'clock. So that puts us just before 11 a.m. here in Washington. And we've all just come off air with Matt Charlie with AmeriCancers on Radio 5 Live. All four of us were there this time, which is just as well, because there was more than enough to talk about after what's happened in the States for the last few days.

1:13We covered the fallout from Vladimir Zelensky's visit to the White House on Friday, where he was asking for Tomahawk missiles to help defend Ukraine, but instead got into quite a heated argument, apparently, with Donald Trump about the state of the war. There were up to 7 million people took part in these No Kings protests all across America at the weekend, protesting against the power grab of Donald Trump's presidency. And do stick around until the end of the podcast, because that's when Justin and I will be taking a little bit of time to look into the president's business dealings whilst he's in office.

1:48Welcome to AmeriCancers on Five Live.

1:54americast americast from bbc news when donald trump calls they say yes sir right away sir happy to lick your boot sir we are the sickest country in the world oh dear are you worried that billionaires are going to go hungry of course the president supports peaceful protests what a stupid question are you still talking about jeffrey epstein

2:20Right, we've got a lot to get through, so let's get stuck straight in. Let's talk No Kings. Over the weekend, millions of Americans took to the streets across America to protest against Donald Trump's presidency. The No Kings rally was held across major cities like New York, Chicago and Washington DC. They turned out in huge numbers to protest against the expansion of presidential authority under Donald Trump. And then he addressed the rallies in an interview that aired yesterday on Fox News. Mr President, do you think that the government shutdown is all about this rally that's happening this weekend, the No Kings rally?

2:54No, I mean, some people say they want to delay it for the king. This is not a king. You know, they're saying, they're referring to me as a king. I'm not a king. He's not a king. He also shared an AI-generated video of himself as a king, flying a plane and dropping... You've stolen my punchline. Brown liquid, we'll call it. It's on protesters to the soundtrack of Top Gun, which leads us all very nice to our first question. Steve is on the line. Hello, Steve. Hey, how are you guys doing? Very good. Where are you in the world, Steve? I am in Southern California. Excellent. So what is your question for the AmeriCasters?

3:32Well, the question is, is it really safe to protest in America now? I mean, at this point, and I want the answer based on the rules of new America, not old America. It's a good question. Sarah? Well, interestingly, Steve, I think I might technically be at more risk than you from things like facial recognition software because we don't know to what extent these protests, which up to 7 million people took part in across America, to what extent and in what cities they were being surveilled and images were kept that could be used with facial recognition software. software. And I suppose people like me, who's here on a work visa, people who were on student visas, potentially could be at risk of having those revoked if the administration wanted to go after them because they had taken part in these protests.

4:18That's not something we've ever really seen happen before. But, you know, in, as you say, the rules of New America, I think that's not impossible. And those threats were not made before these protests by the administration. But, you know, I guess it remains a possibility of what they would consider to be un-American activities. Now, I popped down to have a look at the protests in Washington, which were absolutely enormous. And people had taken a great deal of care to get dressed up in fun, funny outfits. There were lots of people as inflatable dinosaurs and different kind of costumey animals and cartoonish characters.

4:52And that is part of a deliverer effort that started in Portland, where they got protests outside the ice facilities there, to make this look as fun and cartoonish as possible. So it's much, much harder for the administration to say that these are dangerous, radical anti-American protests when everybody, you know, is dressed up like they're at a carnival with a very kind of jolly, happy atmosphere. But I guess that wouldn't technically stop them complaining that people who were, say, on visas had taken part in these anti-American protests and therefore could have their visas revoked. Well, I mean, there's also the self-incrimination factor, like, as with social media, like, all of these people are putting their faces on YouTube.

5:32So, you know, they can take all the time they want. Steve, it's good that you've asked to change the question, but I suppose, to some extent, you can answer it. Would you go and join a protest? You know, at this point, no, because there's too much technology involved. Like, they can, AI moves way too fast. Say, if they want me on something else or like are mad at me for saying something they can run my face through the protest through their files and find me your fear about protesting is sort of part of the effect here which is that you no longer feel like you are able able to take part but i think what's interesting as well is the kind of um tension that exists between what you're saying which is a really serious point and a real worry and concern you have.

6:22And then what Sarah was describing there, which is, you know, the efforts to make these protests seem as fun, if that's the right word, or as sort of carnival-like as possible. And then also, for example, that, I don't know if you saw the AI-generated video that Donald Trump shared on Truth Social, which Matt was mentioning, which is clearly an attempt at kind of like rage bait, the classic, like Donald Trump posted this video of him as a king in a plane dropping this brown stuff. What could it possibly be on the protesters? And to some extent, you wonder whether it's kind of like both sides are accepting, I don't know, an element of humour to it, although it sounds to me like you consider that humour to be not so funny at all.

7:02Well, I mean, you know, there's like one day of fun, but every day people are dressed up as ICE agents with guns running around the streets. You know, that's the reality. Really good to talk to you. Thank you for bringing your question to the AmeriCasters. We'll have to move on. We've got a new question on the government shutdown. George in Somerset has been in touch. I was just wondering if the AmeriCasters could explain about the US government shutdown and how long it could potentially go on for. Is there a precedent where it took longer than this to resolve? What is the likely outcome if neither side budges?

7:36Many thanks. Anthony, let's come to you. Yeah, well, we're approaching the record, and the record was set in the last government shutdown during Donald Trump's first presidential term. The shutdown started at the end of the year in 2018 and stretched on just over a month into late January 2019. We're now going to be entering our fourth week of this government shutdown. The fourth week starts on Wednesday. So there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of movement to reach any kind of an agreement. So this could very well set the new record. Donald Trump has been moving money around to keep the military and immigration agents paid.

8:18He's also cut spending and cut government programs that are funneling money towards democratic states. There's some major infrastructure projects in California and New York that have had their funding suspended. the big bone of contention right now between the Democrats and the Republicans are these health care, health insurance subsidies that expire at the end of the year. Democrats want them to be renewed. Republicans don't want to even talk about it until the government's reopened. And there just hasn't been a whole lot of movement on that central point of controversy, of discussion. And until it does, it doesn't seem like the Democrats want to back away, even though the pain for democratic constituents, for government workers, and maybe even for government services in the coming weeks is going to be increasing.

9:06And if you look at the question we've just had, the question before, because you can link the two, can't you, Anthony, that on the one hand, the Democrats have been very much lighted on this single issue of health care. And it looks like a good issue where you say you must not get rid of these subsidies that have helped so many poorer Americans. And on this single issue, we're going to close the government down, we're going to win this battle. On the other hand, you've got millions, as we've just been saying in the street, quite a few of them. I mean, they'll have a range of views of the government.

9:33None of them like Donald Trump, but they have a range of views about what you should do about that. But at least some of them actually believe, and this word was used by some speakers at the rallies, that he's a fascist, that America has succumbed to fascism. And I think our first question, you got from him a real sense of a fear of the administration. And in those terms, do the Democrats just say, okay we won on health you know say they're given the win Anthony uh is that is that enough now for their own supporters or does it just look a bit weak actually say okay thanks we'll take that then and uh let's go back to business yeah that's going to be really tricky uh for Democrats and the Democrats in the Senate who have triggered the shutdown by refusing to approve uh a temporary spending bill you know how do they find an off-ramp that satisfies all these protesters and and part of it is, yes, if you strike a budget agreement with the Republicans and then Donald Trump just doesn't spend the money, as he's done so far this year, just cuts programs without Congress's approval, what's the point of reaching any kind of agreement and reopening the government when Trump has all of this power?

10:36So I think there are Democrats and certainly a lot of the protesters who wanted some kind of guarantee that Trump won't have this broad executive authority to just slash things left and right and just dealing with insurance isn't nearly enough well let's move on we've got uh scott on the line hello scott good afternoon what is your question for the amara castes uh so a few months ago we had a lot of drama around all the gerrymandering and redistricting so there was the the texas lawmakers who uh flew out to chicago and they were appearing on our news since then it's all been quite quiet in the uk in terms of what's happening in that space.

11:14So I was just wondering, is it all over or is it just not cutting through with so much other stuff going on in the news at the moment? That's such a good question. That applies to so many things. That's why we do our under the radar episodes. Have we stopped talking about it because it stopped happening or because something else came along? Well, there's still the Texas redistricting passed. Those lines have been redrawn. California, their response is going to the ballot box in November. It looks like it will probably pass. Meanwhile, there's other efforts in other Republican states like Missouri and Indiana and South Carolina to draw new lines and North Carolina to draw new lines that will secure some additional seats for Republicans.

12:02It's a little harder for Democrats to do it anywhere else. And I haven't heard a whole lot of real effort, maybe in New York, but that's that's still that might take some time. So this is all setting it up for next year and the congressional midterm elections next year, because who controls Congress is going to and who controls the House of Representatives really could determine how much power Donald Trump has for the last two years of his presidential term. And whether Democrats, if they take back the House, even by a narrow majority, they will have oversight and subpoena power and the ability to really gum up what the president's doing.

12:39So that is why you're seeing all of this scramble, particularly among Republicans who desperately want to hold on to control of the House of Representatives. And it's close. It's closer than it should be, probably, from the Democrats' perspective. And it's worth saying this in light of all the No Kings stuff and all the rest of it, that actually, you know, when you look at generic polls. so will you vote Democrat or Republican in the congressional elections next year, the Democrats are ahead, but not by much. It's still quite squeaky. And if you look back to 2017, 18, so the Trump first term, the midterms, where he had a real bloody nose from the electors in the midterms, you don't have the same sense.

13:19Now, I should not say it can't change, it was a year to go. Yeah, yeah. But at the moment, there is this feeling among Democrats of, goodness, hang on a second, when are we going to get this head of steam that gets us going to these elections? And that's why it could be that gerrymandering in Texas and the efforts by the Democrats to fight back against him, particularly if they get the right to do it in California, as Anthony says, that's going to be something for the ballot next month. It could matter a lot and a lot more than it probably ought to. Great question. Thank you, Scott. I think basically the answer is it is still going on.

13:52It's just been overshadowed by other things. Let's turn our attention to Ukraine now. Vladimir Zelensky went to the White House, met Donald Trump. Some reports of shouting matches behind the scenes. We've had a text in from David. It says, should someone point out to Donald Trump, there's not such a particularly wide ocean, as he often claims, between Russia and the USA. If you're in Alaska, for example. For this and other reasons, the Ukraine war is a threat to the USA. he arms Israel, but why not arm Ukraine with tomahawks? Sarah, how bad was the meeting? And what's your response to David's question?

14:29So the meeting was apparently very bad, although President Zelensky was able, it seems, eventually by the end of it, instead of saying that he would give pretty much all of the currently occupied areas of Ukraine to Russia, to scale it back to something a little bit more acceptable. And by the end, Donald Trump, just after he left, tweeted that they should, well, they should freeze the lines where they are now, both sides declare victory and talk about it later, which is slightly better than what he was wanting Zelensky to do when he went into the meeting. But you could tell from President Zelensky's demeanour afterwards that it hadn't been particularly great.

15:10This was really quite predictable because Donald Trump had had a two and a half hour phone call with Vladimir Putin the day before. And so every bit of progress that had been made by European leaders who remember a month ago, they came with Zelensky to the White House to back him up and say, look, this is what needs to happen. President Trump, it's only fair if Ukraine gets both the ability to defend itself for now and a better kind of peace settlement. But Vladimir Putin every time is able to persuade Donald Trump of his point of view and that somehow he has a right to these parts of Ukraine.

15:45He was no doubt offering him business deals to do with a lot of the valuable rare earth minerals that are in the occupied parts of Ukraine. And this is a pattern we have seen again and again and again, that Donald Trump sounds frustrated with Vladimir Putin, increasingly sympathetic to the Ukrainian cause, has one more meeting or conversation with Putin. And he's back to backing pretty much what, you know, Kremlin talking points about the war. We actually, funnily enough, Justin and I did a bit of a cameo on Saturday on Newscast, a different podcast. One of the things that we were chatting about was this.

16:17And we were talking to James Waterhouse, the correspondent for the BBC in Ukraine. and we were saying how this kind of constant, like you just described, Sarah, sort of flip-flop. It feels like it goes around in circles and, I mean, last time, obviously, it got very tense in the Oval Office with Zelensky or the time, the original bad time with Zelensky and Donald Trump and particularly J.D. Vance. But then, you know, same with Putin. It's like, at one point, he'll be like, yeah, Putin's chatting to me and then it will be like, no, no, he's not talking to me. You're like, it's very on and off again.

16:47It's a little bit Elon Musk-y, Elon Musk Trumpy their relationship to some extent. How much of it do you think, Justin, is to do with Putin? And how much of it is just Donald Trump bears the imprint of the last person who sat on him on any subject? Yeah, a bit of that. But I think there is a there is a wider thing about Putin and Russia. There is a prize here. Obviously, there's a prize for Russia, but there's a prize for the United States. So Trump thinks in having friendly relations with Russia and business relationships with Russia and business relationships that can work for big American companies.

17:18And that side of it, kind of completely separate from Ukraine, has always been, actually, right from the beginning of the second Trump presidency, a thing for him. And the Russians have played on it and played on it quite successfully. You can absolutely see circumstances where he goes further down that road and says, you know, we're going to do this deal and that deal with the Russians. And see the world in a way that divides it up but allows Ukraine just to sort of wither and die. certainly is an issue. Or else he says to the Europeans, as they kind of have, haven't they? Well, you deal with this if you feel so strongly about it.

17:55Well, it's a great question. Thank you very much for that. Well, let's move on. And now it is time for something that I know will get the AmeriCast team very excited.

18:07Santos Watch. He's back. He's back. Anthony messaged. the speed of light like Anthony messaged us on the group chat being like guys he's back I think Anthony actually got him out of jail did Anthony do a bit of work behind the scenes so it's not necessarily journalistically acceptable careful careful this is all fake news yes it's all fake news don't let that go far first of all explain what is Santos Watch so is that well I don't know I feel like I should let Anthony Anthony explain you're the keeper of the Santos Watch flame yeah George Santos was a member of Congress a Republican elected to Long Island several elections ago.

18:49Very over the top, very flamboyant, very controversial, saying controversial things. He got mired in controversy when he was in Congress. There was an ethics investigation. He was expelled from Congress because of fraudulently soliciting campaign donations and spending them on extravagant purchases for himself. He ended up pleading guilty to misusing campaign funds, got sentenced to seven years in prison. And that was, we thought, the last we would hear of him until, lo and behold, last week he received clemency from Donald Trump, which is not a full pardon, but it does allow him to get out of prison.

19:31And as far as I know, I'm not sure if he's been released yet, but if he hasn't, he will be walking free very soon. So we will have George Santos once again to kick around in the coming months. So he posted on social media, Donald Trump posted, that Santos had been horribly mistreated, adding, therefore, I just signed a commutation releasing George Santos from prison immediately. Good luck, George. Have a great life. There was an entire thread on the Discord dedicated to George Santos. And following last week's news, Ian posted this on the Discord. He said, Freeing Santos is yet more evidence that the rule of law in the US is in tatters.

20:11It almost beggars belief how they have reached such a pitiful state. Well, hang on. The sentence is commuted, so he's not been pardoned, I think I'm right in saying. In a commutation of a sentence, it's just that, isn't it? So he's not going to have to serve the time, but he's not been pardoned completely of the crime. The crime has not been sort of wiped off in his record. Number two, I mean, he lied about everything, and it was just, it was peculiar and baroque the extent to which he lied and then stood and we used to use a clip of this. I was just googling, what was the worst one? The worst of them, yeah.

20:45I mean, you could just, he said that his mum, didn't he, was a Holocaust survivor and he turned out not even to be Jewish. Wasn't it also that she was in 9-11, was she not? She was in 9-11. Yeah, exactly. She was at the World Trade Centre. His entire educational background was made up. His work record was made up. I mean, in this day and age, all this stuff is checkable. And then he said he was a drag queen in Rio. Do you remember this? He initially denied being this drag queen at the Rio carnival. And then he said, I had fun at a festival. Sue me for having a laugh. He was also the first elected openly gay Republican.

21:24Anthony, again, I think I'm right in saying, but it then turned out to be married to a woman. Openly, yes. The two are not necessarily incompatible. but every single aspect of his life was weird. And then my favourite one, which we used to use as a clip, Sarah, didn't we? This is one of the things where he's outside, I think he's outside Congress, and he's being asked, how are you coping with your congressional duties with all this pressure on you? And he said, a man ought to be able to walk gum and chew at the same time.

21:54What was amazing about what Donald Trump said about everything you said, Matt, But he also said, thanked George Santos because he always voted Republican, referring to his time in Congress when he was a reliable, you know, vote in the House. And that was one of the reasons why it took quite a long time to get him expelled, was Republicans needed his vote. And it's just one of these brilliant examples where Donald Trump says what you're really meant to keep inside, not only out loud, but post it on social media. I mean, we could have all surmised that Trump liked him because he was loyal and even Marjorie Taylor Greene's threatening to vote against him in Congress now, but you could always rely on Santos.

22:32But we don't have to speculate about that. Donald Trump just tells us that. Says the quiet bit out loud. Well, I was going to round off because all this week we're going to put together a time capsule. It sums up politics in 2025 to be open in 20 years' time. Because I've realised this week I'll have been working in Parliament for 20 years. 20 years' time? You wouldn't think I was old enough. I was more thinking forwards. Beep, beep. So, I was going to ask, what would sum up American politics? Because somebody's already suggested the letter, the King's letter to Donald Trump inviting him. What would sum up?

23:10Maybe George Stanton's CV should go. Or I would say one of the... But does it have to be tangible? No, well, I mean... Because most of my stuff is... Exactly. Well, this is the problem with Times Cap, because music and magazines and things that aren't physical things. Because one of those AI videos, even Donald Trump in the plane and the stuff and the brown liquid being dropped out, or the one of the guards in the area. Marianne's just suggested the most recent thing in her head. No, it's something that's a bit trolley. Maybe it's a Trump 2028 cap. We've talked about that. That's a physical thing.

23:42That's a physical thing. Justin? My theme is rage bait. There you go. Yeah, I wonder if also the Biden debate where, you know, everything that everyone had tried against Trump collapsed. But what's the item, Joe Biden? Well, yeah. The auto pen. Put an auto pen. Auto pen. The auto pen. Yes, the auto pen. Yeah, there you go. That's my one. Because if we talked about the new Hall of Fame or the Walk of Fame, Donald Trump has installed one of his many White House changes. a whole row of elaborately gold-framed portraits of previous presidents, all in order that you would walk along among the colonnades.