Americanswers… on 5 Live! Mitch McConnell breaks his silence, will it stop the conspiracy theories?

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1:30Lindsay Graham has died. Lindsay Graham was a hugely important American politician. He'd been a senator for many, many years. He had a lot of friendships on the Democratic side of the Senate, although he himself was a Republican, and in recent years a big supporter of Donald Trump, though he used to be an opponent of him. So what does the death of Lindsay Graham mean for American politics? Also, what is going on with Mitch McConnell, who used to be the Republican's boss in the Senate, is now ill, and might he be replaced in his Senate seat by someone who opposes Donald Trump? It's all very complicated as ever.

2:08Add to that what's going on in Iran, which actually some of it at least takes place during the course of this edition of America Answers with Matt Chorley, with Sumi, with Anthony, and with me. Welcome to America Answers. americast americast from bbc news you hear that sound oh i think when i hear that sound it reminds me of money we didn't start this war but under president trump we are finishing it this is a big cover-up and this administration is engaged in it this guy has trump arrangement syndrome i have four words for you turn the volume up

2:51We have got an awful lot to get to, so let's get stuck in straight away. We've got Valerie in Didcot on the line. Hello, Valerie. Hello, Matt. How are you? I'm very well. What is your question for the AmeriCasters? What's the impact of Lindsey Graham suddenly and unexpectedly passing? And the second part is, did it force Mitch McConnell into announcing that he's alive and well after weeks of conspiracy theory and speculation. So let's take those two parts of Valerie's excellent question. Anthony, let's start, first of all, with just the huge news of the death of Lindsey Graham. For listeners who don't know or don't follow American politics as closely as perhaps we do, just explain the significance of Lindsey Graham in the Republican Party and American politics more generally.

3:40Anthony Zurcher:Sure. Lindsey Graham has been in the United States Senate since 2002, representing the conservative state of South Carolina. Prior to that, he was in the House of Representatives. He's had an on-again, off-again relationship with Donald Trump, a critic and then a supporter, then a critic and then a supporter again. But the importance of him, at least in this juncture, was that he has been a close friend and surrogate for Donald Trump in the United States Senate. He has been a robust advocate for the Iran war and for support for Israel. He has also been a supporter of Ukraine in their fight against Russia and has tried to pressure Donald Trump to be more supportive of Ukraine.

4:22Anthony Zurcher:In fact, he was just over in Ukraine visiting Volodymyr Zelensky two days before he passed suddenly of a heart condition on Saturday night. He kind of is the Trump whisperer for the United States Senate. He helps shepherd through Donald Trump's legislative agenda through the Senate. He's had a good relationship with Democrats there. He was a golf buddy of Trump, so he was able to kind of be the go-between that would help Trump. And his absence now is going to have huge implications for getting Donald Trump's judicial nominees confirmed and for getting any other legislation through the Senate, through the Congress for the rest of this year.

4:59Yeah, I would absolutely agree with what Anthony said. Being the Donald Trump whisperer was a role that Lindsey Graham in the last few years in particular really embraced. You know, in that time of what some call purgatory for Donald Trump, when he lost the 2020 election before the 2024 election, it was Lindsey Graham who went down to Mar-a-Lago to meet with Donald Trump, to golf with him, to try to convince him to abandon some of his grievances, those unfounded claims of the 2020 election being rigged to say, look, you need to focus on the future and salvaging your political career. Of course, that did happen, as we know.

5:34But interesting to note that Lindsey Graham, after the January 6th riots on the Capitol, he on the Senate floor said, count me out. Enough is enough. And some took that to mean that he had had enough with Donald Trump. Well, that wasn't the case. And later he said, what I mean is enough with this process, enough with the controversy over this election. It is over. And now we see him, of course, as one of President Trump's biggest supporters. And with his passing, it's going to be interesting to see what impact that has on foreign policy. The Iran war was he was a full throated supporter of it and was sceptical of any agreement to be reached with Iran and a sort of kind of pressure point for President Trump to really push the Iranians.

6:16So now that that's gone, that will be a glaring exception for this edit as well. It was a big figure in American politics for a long time, Justin, but presumably overlapping when you were there. Yeah, very much so. And always representing. And I think this is the real point of Lindsey Graham and of his departure from the scene is he was a Senate guy through and through. He really believed in being independent of the rest of politics and of plowing his own furrow. He was very friendly. Certainly when I was there, I was very friendly with a lot of Democratic Party senators, including actually Joe Biden.

6:53Enormously friendly with him. Didn't like it when Donald Trump was unpleasant about Biden. But famously, of course, with Joe Lieberman, the former Democratic senator and presidential candidate or vice presidential candidate. And they were real pals. And they used to travel around the world with John McCain as well. I remember John McCain, great kind of leader of the idea that America should be intervening in the world and it could intervene for the better, etc., etc. But fundamentally, that senators could make a difference. And you think of all that's going on at the moment and all of Donald Trump's power and all the rest of it and all the way.

7:29And we keep talking about this on AmeriCast, the way in which Congress, both the House of Representatives and the Senate, seemed to be absent. And he wasn't absent. I mean, you say what you like about him, and he certainly did. He made some enemies when he got cosy with Trump. But he believed in his own independence and his own right to say things. And there is a dwindling group, actually, of senators who really can carry that off. And it's a big blow to them. OK, so I think listeners will now understand the significance of Lindsey Graham. What then of Mitch McConnell and his apparent need to prove that he was still alive?

8:04Anthony, what's going on? Right.

8:05Anthony Zurcher:We got a post on Sunday on social media of Mitch McConnell with a message to Kentuckians, to Americans, talking about his health condition, how he's still convalescing in the hospital and he's not ready. As doctors say, he's not ready yet to return to the halls of the United States Senate. Of course, Mitch McConnell, former Republican Senate leader, one of the longest serving Republican Senate leaders. He's been in Congress for decades, very influential. But but accompanying this message was a photo of McConnell's sitting next to his wife in a hospital bed, Elaine Chao, who is also a prominent conservative politician and former labor secretary.

8:47Anthony Zurcher:And then off to one side, you could see a little glimmer of a newspaper. A lot of sleuths looked at that newspaper to see if it was current. And it apparently was The Washington Post from Sunday sitting next to him. So we have proof of life. I think that's what you call it in a hostage situation. Now, he is not otherwise shown up publicly, but but at least this is an indication that he is still alive, despite conspiracy theories and on the mend. And then maybe Lindsey Graham's passing did, as Valerie suggests, did kind of force McConnell's hand to show up and show out. Because as soon as the grieving for Graham was over, I think attention would return to McConnell in his health.

9:29Yeah, we've had another AmeriCaster who WhatsAppped in that said, I live in London, but I'm back home visiting. So I assume that's back in America. I'm hearing stories about a cover up of Mitch McConnell's well-being. These range from he's unwell but fine and will be back shortly to he's incredibly unwell and won't be able to return. And finally, he's already deceased and this info is being suppressed. In the last two scenarios, it's claimed that everyone in the Republican Party from Trump down is part of this conspiracy to keep Massey, the former congressman, from running. There's a filing deadline in a few weeks.

9:58Is there any truth to the last two scenarios? Thanks. Yeah, I mean, and Steve Bannon and others who are not unadjacent to conspiracy theories have certainly been putting it around. So Thomas Massey, this guy who's lost his seat in Kentucky, who was a member of the House of Representatives, he was a really outspoken enemy of Donald Trump in recent years, particularly over Jeffrey Epstein, a real nuisance to Donald Trump. Donald Trump might himself have used rather stronger language about him and got rid of him, effectively. Stood someone against him in the primary election to see if he was going to represent the Republicans again, and the guy stood against him once.

10:34So he's kind of footloose and fancy-free, but well known in the state of Kentucky. That's where Mitch McConnell is from. In most American states, when someone dies, a senator dies, the governor, Anthony will correct me if I'm wrong on this, in most American states, the governor then just appoints someone. The governor of Kentucky is a Democrat. But oddly in Kentucky, as in a few other states, that doesn't happen. And there are various complicated rules. But basically, if it's a certain number of days away from the election, which is being held in November, then you would get to have a special election and that would then allow Thomas Massey, this enemy of Donald Trump, to stand.

11:19I don't think he could stand as a Republican because I don't think they'd choose him, but he could certainly stand in the election and be a real nuisance to Trump. And either of my American colleagues can correct or add to what I just said. But that's the basic. So in other words, it's not a complete conspiracy theory. So tell Justin where he's gone wrong. No, Justin's spot on there. There is a lot of complicated political machinations happening on. One thing to keep in mind is Kentucky is a deep red Republican state, but it has a Democrat governor, Andy Beshear. And I think part of the pressure, of course, it was Lindsey Graham's passing.

11:54But Andy Beshear publicly called out to Mitch McConnell last week and said, give us an update on your health. And what Republicans did, and this is what Justin was referring to a few years ago, is they passed a law saying that it's not the governor who gets to name a replacement if there is a vacancy, like in this case with Mitch McConnell. If Mitch McConnell were not to come back to his job, of course, it would be then a special election, as Justin said. Now, there are legal experts who say that doesn't really hold up to the Constitution of Kentucky, but they don't want a Democrat appointing a fill-in for Mitch McConnell, a Republican.

12:29And so that's an added piece of what makes a really complicated picture in Kentucky right now.

12:34Anthony Zurcher:And also I'll point out that that Mitch McConnell was retiring. He was going to be out of the Senate one way or the other in January. So all of this talk of appointments and special elections, all of that would have just filled the Senate seat for a matter of a few months. There already there already is a Republican nominee to replace him who's going to run in November, a Democratic nominee to run against him in November. So it is a very small window. It seems like a lot of effort to fill something with Thomas Massey or someone else, when in all honestly, it's all going to be moot come January.

13:06But that's also, I mean, the important thing there, Matt, is that you've got this kind of real window of opportunity. If you're going to run Massey, then you need, if you're not going to run Massey, if you're going to prevent Massey coming, you need Mitch McConnell to be alive and that proof of life to exist until all this way, until nearly the election is on us in November. I think it's 56 days from memory, but there is a number of days. Is that it? August 3rd. Yeah, August 3rd is the deadline. I just like this sort of old school in a world of AI and deep fakes and all of that. The old school having your photo taken with today's newspaper is the thing.

13:43Thank God for print newspapers. Yeah. Print is back. How are you going to do that when it's all online? Yeah, just holding up a web page is not as convincing somehow. Pardon me, thank you for that. And the other American cast have got in touch as well. Let's move on because we've got more questions. John in Yorkshire asking about Iran. Says, are America's renewed attacks on Iran? A petty response to the signs of defiance and revenge during the recent Iranian funeral parade. So yesterday, US military launched more strikes against Iran with the US Central Command posting on Exeter continued degrading their ability to attack civilian mariners and commercial ships freely transiting the Strait of Hormuz.

14:24Trump telling Reuters on the phone on Sunday, we're beating them up. What's behind all of this, do you think, Sumi? I think, you know, in part, this is, in a way, a response to Iran's show of strength, which that week-long funeral procession and events did reflect. But on the other hand, this is very much about who is in control of the Strait of Hormuz. Look at the types of strikes that the US is carrying out here. These are strikes specifically on the southern coast of Iran along the strait. And for President Trump, this has been an incredible source of frustration. he says that in the memorandum of understanding of course this is not on paper but his understanding of that memorandum is that the strait would be open for commercial traffic and just remember the economic impact of iran having a chokehold over that strait the iranians say that's not the case you know any ship that passes through the strait of hormuz has to go through these approved routes and has to be coordinated with the iranians and we're seeing the u.s try now to again break that chokehold.

15:20And of course, we've seen Iran then carry out these horizontal attacks on US assets in the region. So Kuwait and Bahrain, for example, the UAE. And what we have in the end is again, this tit for tat strikes and a real question of whether this ceasefire really can be held. I mean, President Trump himself said it's over. Well, literally, while we've just been talking, Donald Trump has posted on his social media website, Truth Social, he says, the Hormuz strait is open, in capital letters, and will remain open without Iran. He says, we are reinstating, in capital letters, the Iranian blockade, so named because it is only stopping Iran ships or customers from entering or leaving.

16:01All other countries are fair and open use of the strait. The USA will be, from this point forward, known as, and he puts in capital letters, the guardian of the Hormuz strait, close quotes, end capital letters, but as such, and as a matter of capital letters, fairness will be reimbursed at the rate of 20 % on all cargo shipped for any reason and all costs necessary to do the job of providing safety and security to this very volatile section of the world. The process of formation will begin immediately. Thank you for your attention in this matter, President Donald J. Trump. Doesn't that sound...

16:29So that's him saying he's going to charge people, charge ships, 20%, to pay for the US in its new role as the guardian of the Hormuz Strait. Complicated, eh? I mean, a lot of the stuff that has prevented traffic in the past going through the strait has actually been as much insurance costs as anything else. And you wonder what that does to insurance costs. In other words, whether there is some sort of a guarantee where people pay and they get the assistance of the US Navy and an insurer is willing to provide a relatively small amount of coverage for a small sum. Well, we'll see what reaction comes to that true social.

17:12Let's move on because we've got more questions. This one, message into the BBC from Carla in Southampton. Why are you not reporting on the ICE shooting in Houston? Anthony, update our listeners if they're not aware of what's happening in Houston and Texas.

17:25Anthony Zurcher:Yeah, we are reporting on it and media is reporting on it. There are massive demonstrations going on in Houston following the shooting of an individual, Lorenzo Salgado Arafo, who is a Mexican man who had been working as a builder in the United States for 30 years. according to the Trump administration. He was not the intended target. He was in a white van with some other Hispanic-looking men. And the ICE officer said they thought one of the individuals in the van was a target of an operation. They detained the van and then shot in self-defense. The thing to know about this is that there are no body cameras.

18:04Anthony Zurcher:The officers were not wearing body cameras. We have no images or videos. So we have the accounts of the other people in the van who said they did nothing wrong and they were not threatening the officers. And we have the accounts of the federal government, which say he was endangering lives. So he said he said type of thing. But the truth is that one man now is dead and that there have been these massive demonstrations. This is part of a larger push by ICE to step up arrests and enforcement across the country. So not as high profile as what was happening in Minneapolis over the winter. but this is still a step up in enforcement.

18:42Anthony Zurcher:Over 10 ,000 people, according to ICE, have been detained over a five-day period at the end of June. So this is perhaps the biggest flashpoint in one of America's major cities. Thanks for that, Anthony. And there are stories on the BBC News website if you want to read more about that. We've had a message in from Richard. An email says, when can we expect Sarah and or Anthony, or indeed Sumi, or indeed Justin, I suppose, to report on their first ride on Donald Trump's new 747. Anthony, have you got your seat booked? Not yet. Unfortunately, when I was flying out or back from France a few weeks ago, that was the last flight of the old 747, at least the last flight before he put the new one into rotation.

19:27Anthony Zurcher:And I'm looking forward to see what it looks like on the inside. I've spoken with some journalists who have flown on it already. They say it is much more luxurious. The journalists have live flatbeds, which would have been great for these trans-Pacific and transatlantic flights. A lot more room for Donald Trump to hold his gaggles with reporters because it's just a much a much bigger aircraft. But I will I will give you a full report next time I am on it from the inside. And this is the this is the plane that he was given by the Qataris. Is that right? That's correct. This is the plane that was given by the Qataris.

20:00And President Trump has been very excited about rolling it out. But remember after the summit in Turkey, the NATO summit in Ankara, President Trump surprisingly decided to take the old Air Force One back. And that's when the New York Times reported that there were security concerns, that this plane that was a gift from the Qataris had been retrofitted to meet security needs of the president of the United States. and that those security needs were not basically meeting the standard of what was needed for President Trump to be flying in what could be somewhat hostile airspace, especially with Iranians making threats against him, right?

20:34So President Trump was not happy about the reporting. In fact, those reporters who took part in that story with the New York Times, they have been subpoenaed. And the Department of Justice says it's not about the reporters, it's about their sources who are leaking classified information. But the White House is mad about that reporting. And in fact, we've got a clip. So this is Donald Trump being asked why he wasn't using his new plane when he was in Ankara last week. Why aren't you flying on the new Air Force One home? It's flying to Europe to one of the big bases, two or three of the big bases, where we can show it to the people and we'll be going home by normal methods.

21:09But we have it going to Europe to a couple of bases, actually one in particular, but it's going to go to a couple of bases stop. so the soldiers can see it because it's truly magnificent.

21:26OK, Matt has now gone away to do his other things, but Sumi is still with me and so is Anthony. And let's focus for a bit longer, shall we, guys, on Lindsey Graham because he was, as we were saying, a huge figure, but he's also a controversial figure and he managed to make friends across the aisle, but he also managed to make enemies, didn't he?

21:47Anthony Zurcher:Yeah, because Lindsey Graham went from being such a sharp Trump critic in 2015 and 2016 to a close Trump ally at a time when there were other Republicans who were still trying to be never Trumpers, still trying to draw a line in the sand with the way Trump was changing conservative politics. That definitely drew a lot of criticism. There's speculation even that Donald Trump had some sort of dirt on Lindsey Graham. He was blackmailing him. Why on earth would Graham be interested in cozying up to someone who he had said on the campaign trail in 2015, 2016, was a xenophobe, a religious bigot? He had said most famously in 2016 that if the Republican Party nominated Donald Trump, it would get destroyed and we will deserve it.

22:37Anthony Zurcher:That one you see repeated over and over again. And while Graham held his tongue through the general election against Hillary Clinton, he didn't vote for Clinton. He didn't vote for Trump. He voted for a guy named Evan McMullin, who is running as an independent candidate. that once Trump became president, Graham definitely changed his tune and became much closer to Trump. As you say, Justin, that that did not rub a lot of people well. I actually asked a few of Lindsey Graham's kind of closer associates, his former communications director, for example, about this, about this trajectory of Lindsey Graham on one hand being incredibly critical of President Trump and then becoming one of his closest allies.